Transcripts For CSPAN The 20240705

Policymakers, academic faculty, scientists, business professionals, philanthropy and nonprofit organizations, and many individuals. There are some folks joining us from my home state of minnesota, which is terrific, so weak clearly have a crosssection of the country that are joining us to discuss the very important topic that we are talking about today. Its my special pleasure to welcome you all. Since 1948, pew has worked to make change by creating Common Ground using data to make a difference in making progress through partnerships. And although our world and the challenges that it faces has changed over 75 years, our commitment and values remain the same. We strive for equity to work with you mentally humility and to have impact. We want to be inclusive, nonpartisan and operate with integrity. Those values shape how we approach all of our work, how we collaborate with each other, and how we engage with our staff, with policymakers, with our partners and with the public. That brings us to what we are here to discuss today. Strengthening democracy in america. Its a goal that inspired our founders and have informed our work for more than 75 years. So, we start today with a conversation with carla, the 14th librarian of congress. In just a few minutes i will sit down with her and we will have a wideranging conversation on how listening, reading, scholarships, facts and open debate are essential to our democracy. We are in institution that looks at data, so the Pew Research Center for survey and americans in 2021 under feelings about democracy and the polling found 50 of adults, well over half of americans are dissatisfied with the way democracy is working. While i very much understand that frustration, i would like to offer a slightly more positive outlook about where we are and where we are going. So ive been privileged to help lead pew for 25 years, including as president and ceo since july of thing. In that time we had our challenges, and that includes trying to continue our work during a global pandemic. But i have lost none of my optimism or support for the values that this Organization Lives by in the 75 year history of public service. And that includes our commitment to nonpartisanship and impact. There is no denying that we live in a fractured local landscape, that means we have a lot of work ahead of us. I understand that difficult problems from threats to diversity, to social inequality, cold divisions can feel absolutely intractable and major challenges protecting 30 of the worlds land and oceans, cannot be solved by one organization, one country or one community. But we can make progress when we follow the facts and use our best science and work with partners. I have seen how Strategic Partnerships and multifaceted approaches can increase impact, build bridges to Diverse Communities and solve problems. I could see how evidencebased policies and nonpartisan communication can create a Common Ground for finding solutions that are creative and durable. And i have seen how fats can become a, a common language that helps people with disparate viewpoints commute kate with each other. Thats why nonpartisan is the cornerstone of everything that we do. We stick to facts because facts dont take sides, facts dont judge, facts dont live in blue states or red states, facts dont leave read social media clips. Facts are necessary to build facts thats essential for democracy. I love big ideas and big ideas can lead to big results, but even big ideas become reality stepbystep and i have seen firsthand how incremental steps can bring enormous positive change. Thats been true in our state policy work from public land, Broadband Access, retirement savings, enhancing access to opioid use disorder and fiscal issues. Thats a kind of factbased work pew staff do every day. Its equally true to strengthen democracy for the best supportive evidencebased election administration, researching the basic american tenant of federalism or planning for our home town of philadelphia will mark americas 250th in 2026. Achieving those goals will require patience, dialogue, humility and inclusion. But the last 75 years have shown us that with every milestone we reach, communities become stronger in peoples lives get better. That has been our storied path and will continue to be our future. Speaking of stories, lets turn to the conversation at hand. Albert einstein said the only thing you absolutely have to know is the location of the library. And nobody has been a stronger or more effective advocate for libraries and carla hates. President obama appointed carla the 14th librarian of congress and the first woman in africanamerican to lead americas oldest cultural institution. Her love of reading on the library started decades earlier. Born in tallahassee, florida she developed a passion for reading at a young age. She developed he graduated from Roosevelt University and began her professional career as a childrens librarian in the Chicago Public library while still in school. She earned a doctorate from the university of chicago in 1987. She taught at the university of Pittsburgh School of Information Sciences from 1987 to 1991 and served two years at the Chicago Public library before being appointed ceo of the Pratt Library in baltimore in 1993. At pratt she greatly expanded digital services, started an Afterschool Program for teenagers and open the first new branch of 30 years. Carla was president of the American Library association from 2003 to 2004 in the first africanamerican to receive the Library Journals i brain of the year award. She was good enough to join us for an interview for one of pews afterthefact podcasts. She called libraries baskins of equal opportunity. She told us the library and is there to give you unbiased access to information, and thats an idea that all of us at pew can understand, appreciate and strive to achieve. Now, it is my very great pleasure to welcome and sit down with carla hayden, librarian of congress. [applause] carla thank you, susan for that lovely introduction. Thats the introduction you want your mother to hear. [laughter] i hope your mother is watching. Carla im sure she has. At 91 she keeps up with a lot of things. You told me when we were chatting just before that today is a 200 23rd anniversary of the library of congress. Yay for that. Its also National Library week and its also pews anniversary, and its also the day we are having this conversation, so that is a lovely group of events and very appropriate for the topic we are talking about. You said libraries are the cornerstone of democracy. Tell us why that matters. Carla libraries are open to everyone. Its one of the few services that they ask you anything about why you want the information, or why you want a book, though sometimes, we want to, thats part of our value, but its open to everyone, free, and some of the values that you talked about, nonpartisan, data driven, all those things are part of what the value of libraries are, and it doesnt matter if you are in a rural area, a city, native american plays, any place you are, a library, you can count on that, and thats when we look at surveys and things people talk about one of the most trusted places in communities is a library. Im going to quote Something Back to you and i will do it a lot this morning because a lot of what you say is on point for the conversation we are having today. You compare bookshelf and libraries to democracies in action because have different books and a range of ideas sitting sidebyside and people can show can freely choose. The idea of informed citizens citizens three feels resident. Hows that shaping the place of libraries in communities today . Carla we used to say, we let the books battle it out on the shelves. And you want to make sure that you do present as many sides as possible to an issue so that people can freely everyone has the right to know, you have the right to choose, and you have the right to and i hope, when we get to talking about book banning in all of the things that are going on now, that you have that right. So what librarians pride themselves in and have since the 1870s in this country when Public Libraries really took over about the same time as Public Education did in this country, that that is what you can do, you can go in and decide for yourself if you want to read something. Lexi mentioned how trusted libraries are and we are talking about trust in many different venues. The Pew Research Center found 78 of adults feel that Public Libraries help them find information that is trustworthy and reliable. I dont know too many institutions that have numbers that good. You talk about some of the challenges libraries are facing today. So how important is it that libraries can really operate as a safe space . Carla in the world we know, not only libraries, but the staff in the library. Librarians have one of the strongest stereotypes of any profession. Mary and the librarian. We mention this a bit, we look for cartoon depictions of librarians and commercials, but think about it, you seen some of the commercials where you stand in the library and the laboring is looking, like a library and should, and there is a new product in the librarian takes a piece of that and goes wild. Just dances on the table and all that stuff, and you say, i want that gun because of the librarian goes wild, whats it going to do for me. So, you are starting out with a trusted place, Staff Members that you know are there for you, and one of the new books, cloud cuckoo and is set in the library on the whole theme of people are nodding because i read it, i admit, i stayed up all night, i skipped some parts, but because it was so evocative of what happens in libraries all the time, so you have people that are there to help you, they are not in it for the money, but they really want to help you. Lets lets talk about the different ways libraries function in the community. Is an Interesting Data point. The American Library Association Says 90 of libraries help people complete Online Government forms. That is a startling statistic. Generally not only is that interesting, but what happened over the last three years . Libraries, like all of our institutions were terribly disruptive during the pandemic, what kind of innovation may be emerged from that . Carla i know you said its egovernment when you think of egovernment, people need to be able to sit at a unit, at a large screen that they can book for two or three hours to fill out an application to have printing the first 10 pages are usually free. In all of this, there are so many communities, especially rural areas, especially because we dont think about what the challenges are where people dont have the Broadband Access or the equipment to sit and turn in and to have that guide on the side to help them with the application to do that. I was in a situation where section eight renewal was announced, two week timeframe, it was all online, and we knew in the library in Baltimore City that we had to train our staffs to look at the form, have dedicated computers for the onslaught that we knew was going to be there. At 10 00 people were lined up at the library and we had staff to help during the pandemic. That was one of the hardest parts at first for Public Libraries in particular because in times of crisis and in need, thats where people go to get information and its a safe haven. So not being able to physically help the doors open when people would have been there, think about the switch to Virtual Learning and all the communities where the computer rooms and libraries were packed with young people and people that needed information. First thing libraries did was to say, we have staff that are good at researchers and tracking, they became the contact tracers, the librarians and then the aspect of the access to the internet. They took their mobile units, the bookmobiles and now their mobile units into communities so that people could connect to wifi. Then they started loading out hotspots so that people could have wifi access in several libraries received grants to put the antennas on their facilities so that the neighborhood could have wifi. Librarians got real creative, we always are. That was a place i was very impressed in, and upper michigan. They have a section beyond books where you can check out a sewing machine, you can check out musical instruments. The one that stopped me was traffic cones. At first i thought they were construction, in the library and they said no we let people check out these cones because what if you are having construction done at your house or something, and teaching young people to drive, and all these things. Libraries were already doing those types of things so the pandemic really kicked it into gear and the main thing that is continuing on that we had started in all types of libraries, the library of congress to, virtual programming and doing storytime and putting it up and using the media to be able to broadcast out. s of those things will continue now . Yes i got very popular, youtube and all of these things. A lot of these types of things are still going to continue on. Thats fantastic, one of the things you have done in your role as librarian of congresss focus on connecting with people and their stories. That really resonates with me in the work we do at pew so maybe you could talk about why that has been such an important focus and tell us one of the more memorable stories you have come across. History is storytelling. Being able to have individual stories as well, not just the movements or the things we know about world war ii for instance. You can learn all about the battles and everything but what about the veterans, what about the people who served . At the library of congress weve been able to be involved with the veterans history project it is an oral history project for veterans. They are telling their individual stories, and it is one of the most memorable aspects of that, the family of veterans had given their oral history before and passed. They wanted more information about his service and they were able to go on the database and look and find someone that had served with their father. And connect. And that, being able to not only value everyone stories because one of the things with veterans, we train people to interview like your grandfather, your grandmother. It is great for it and it really took off during the pandemic because that was an activity that people had and we put that up. You will find that people say i didnt do much, i drove the truck that brought in the food. For the troops. But know that his service. But those individual stories and valuing the person to is a big part. So not only are you focused on the connections that you are seeing, but it helps people connect to each other. In a really fundamental way. Its interesting because we are all increasingly siloed these days and i am going to cite a Pew Research Fact nearly half of both republicans and democrats a political conversation with people they disagree with, it is incredibly stressful and frustrating. How can knowledge and some of the work that libraries do help people facilitate those conversations and make them less difficult . We try. And we have author programs, bringing in authors and having questions and answers and having people from different backgrounds that they look around and say we are here to hear the same author so you are already creating some type of common bond in one sense. And then having the discussion and letting them think about new ideas. Thats the whole importance of reading in the beginning was about, you could get empathy hopefully. Good to see what someone else might have felt or feel. And thats why it is important to have these discussions in a nonthreatening place, libraries have been that ever since ive been involved. For some pretty heated discussions, questions and answers can get heated, but its also a civil place for discussion. So you and i chatted a little bit about this before we came on, some of the challenges that libraries are facing today and trying to hold onto that value of being an open place for discussion about different ideas . Especially for young people. So many young people need to have that place sometimes outside of their own family, and to be able to have that trusted adult, to have a place where they are maybe not bullied. In the south side of chicago one of the first jobs you mentioned as a childrens librarian, a little storefront in this little guy named leonard. He had a lot of issues. Leonard was 10 and he would come in and he was being bullied and he knew he could come in and he would sit by my desk. And i thought i have to put letter to work now. He comes every day. This was back with the card catalog and stuff i would let him sort the cards. He found a place. Other staff. It was wonderful to see when he got about 12 and he was feeling much better and he would wave at me through the window. I was like ok leonard. You are all right. You know you can always come back when you need to. So young people in particular need that safe space defined out about others and find out about themselves. Librarians have been called the feisty fighters for freedom. They have tshirts. Tracy hall who is the executive director of the American Library association was just named one of time magazines most influential people of 2023. Because she talks about Library Access as an equity issue. And you have to have the informed citizenship, thats why those institutions were built. I have to quote something. Not word for word, but alberto bagwell and his history greeting has a chapter on forbidden reading. And the start of the chapter has a photograph of a woman who you could tell she is africanamerican, she might recently have been a slave and she has a book. And he says in their as tyrant slaveowners and dictators and other illicit holders of power have always known, an illiterate crowd is the easiest to rule. If you cannot prevent people from learning to read, the bet next best recourse is to limit its scope. And it goes on, book burning, censorship, all of this. In Frederick Douglass in his autobiography the main crux of it, he says once you learn to read you will be forever free. Because then you can see, there is a reason why all of those laws were put into effect. To prevent slaves from learning to read. And people who taught them. I have to tell you a little story about that though. When i became the librarian of congress i had to be sworn in and it was wow, it was something. I was preparing and my dear mother was listening to me go on and on. About what i was going to talk about, i was going to list every law in the United States about forbidding slaves to read. It was something. First offense you cut off one finger or something, all of this stuff and im going through it and my mom said carla, this is going to be a happy occasion. Could we just sum it up . Two people who look like you were once forbidden to read. But that is the crux of it because when you think about why , once you learn to read you cant unlearn it. And you can read anything. They had special bibles for slaves. Because at first the versions had let my people go and they were like well we have to cut that. We are going to limit this bible reading. So this whole thing is literacy and democracy. Its a through line to at you think about when you think about equal rights. I feel like we should stop their. See you had me going. That is the point. When libraries are challenged, when there is a move to close libraries, you are closing access. And in many communities that is the only access point. People cant order books or maybe go buy books or by a streaming service and all of that. In fact i am a true librarian and i do collect, but these are my papers. People get nervous when they see a librarian. But you have to say this is not this libraries copy. This is my copy. So wall street journal, the personal journey, hearing, the whole bottom page Humble Library card can save you cash. And theyre telling you all this free, you can get ebooks, wall street journal etc. It is impressive. So i am going to close out today. We have a couple questions were going to ask all of our speakers for this event, wideranging and this i am really interested in. Tell us what we can do, give us some advice. What can we do to do a better job of building bridges and creating Common Ground for people . Do something. Dont get so discouraged with oh gosh, going to you know where and a handbasket. All this stuff. Look at where you are. Do it where you block or community is, what you are involved in. Say ok, i am going to do it there but at least start. You would be surprised. When you get something going and you get other people to join you , we have an exhibit at the library of Congress Join in. Voluntary associations. Just start, do not be overwhelmed by the masses, it all works together. Last question ive got, can you share what you see happening in America Today that gives you hope . The young people. They are out there saying dont ban my books. I want to read this. The best way to make a best seller is to ban it. Kids have an underground railroad for these books, they are out there and they care about the planet. This is their future. And they use those savvy skills, those tech skills, they are organized, they knew all this stuff and they are doing it. Theyve got energy because they are young. Its wonderful, that gives me so much hope. It really does and i see them take the reins and they are pretty clear id about a lot of things. That is a great note to end on so were going to open it up now for questions. If you are tuning in virtually you can enter your questions directly on the video stream or you can share questions via twitter using hashtags pew 75. First we start with the audience and see if there any questions. And it can get lively. Dont hold back. There are roving microphones so hold off until you get one into your hand. Hi i am Monica Humphreys i work at pew and i managed to grants here, my question for you is what is a book that inspired you growing up in what are you reading now that you would recommend for the pew book club . We have read some of anthony doors work you cant use that one but any other books that you recommend . Darn. While the paris library, have you read that . Its based on the true story of the American Library in paris so you have a library in paris, two of my favorite things put together. But it is the true story of their resistance and things during world war ii. The book, we talked earlier about library fine, i told carla when i got my very first Checking Account the very first check i wrote was for a library fine. I will continue the pattern that lasted until i found out about amnesty days. And now we dont charge, most libraries dont because it has been an access barrier. A lot would not get a library card because they were afraid of the fines but that gets to my book, that is how i found out about library fines. The book bright april, she started after world war ii starting writing books with beautiful illustrations. She is from philadelphia in the Philadelphia Free library has her archive. About children from different backgrounds. An amish girl, a jewish boy, all of this and an africanamerican girl. April. Who is about eight, i was eight. I dont remember who put that book in my hand, i was in queens new york, Storefront Library right across from the school. I would go there every day and it was the first time i saw myself in a book. Beautiful illustrations, a family, they had a piano in the living room and it was me. She was a brownie, she had pigtails, i love that book. I love that book so much. That i kept checking it out and checking it out and thats out how i found out about library fines. I finally purchased the book which i still have and it is tattered. Even years later when i was a childrens librarian and looking at stereotypes and everything, they mentioned bright april and i said no you are judging a book in a different time. For that little girl to see that, because i always loved books. But boy, it means so much for kids to see themselves and books are so important and they do all this stuff. They can be windows to the world and mirrors. They should be both. Ok, other questions . One in the back row. Hi my name is melissa and i am one of the librarians here at pew. [applause] on behalf of the library and Archives Team i want you to know how we excite excited we are to have you here. My question has to do with the future of libraries because we are always wondering if we will have a job in 10 or 20 years and so much of that has to do with what a library will be then because we have moved away from renting books to a certain extent. I cant believe what you are saying about traffic cones and i thought that is a great idea. But what would you say in 20 or 30 years, what a Public Library might look like . I mature enough, old enough, to remember when we had this same discussion when computers were coming in the late 70s and early 80s. I remember all my god. And then we had to decide what business where we end, were we in the Book Business because a book was just a container. So once the information was freed from the container, what does that do . So we said we are in the information business where in the knowledge business, so looking at the Digital Future and what happened even recently, the Online Presence of libraries. Being more nimble in the digital realm and being able to, as wall street journal said, be able to Download Library audiobooks and all these other things so you will be seeing libraries in place still. And more libraries, are the physical part in communities, combining with senior centers, rec centers, so you will see more multiuse facilities with a library in it. Canada is getting ready to do their National Library combined with the Public Library. Their National Library archives and using public space so libraries will be places where you see more of the arts being performed and things. I think we are going to make it. The local library i go to regularly they were making creative use of their card catalog furniture and using it for seating. They were alphabetizing all the seats. That might be a young leonard. In the neighborhood that could help with that. There are a lot of activities. The library of congress is getting ready to have in its iconic Thomas Jefferson building, we are calling it the source, for young and the young at heart. The first thing when you come in is there going to be an exploding card catalog that they can pull and interact all types of things. A lot of young people dont even know what it is or what it was. We have a book out about the card catalog and i was interviewed by this young man, about 25, and we were taking photos in the library has a mile of card catalogs still in the madison building. He said how does this work . I said you pull the drawer out, and you pull these little cards. Ok any other questions . My name is mark, i am a researcher here on fiscal policy. I am curious, on the theme of strengthening democracy, do you see any role for libraries and think of it as a concern many have now about People Living in echo chambers and seeking only the information that confirms their biases and things is there a role for libraries to play in presenting information to people that will challenge whatever their default thing that they want to consume is . Or is that too far outside of what the mission of a library is . Or does it necessarily put libraries in a political role that they are not intended to play . Well it is part of the role of a library, to present information and ideas. They could be ancient ideas, you are already in the sphere. But you cant make people read it or want to consume it. What you can do is make it available. And there might be enough people who will read and consume that will be armed almost. With information or strengthened by, we are the access point and we want to be that. Nonpartisan. We want to be as objective as we can about it but we also want to be reliable in terms of a trusted source. That is one of the values that we vet the information. We are available. Clearly the story you told about the Amazing Things the libraries were doing during the pandemic suggests that what you are working on is reducing barriers so people have easy access to a range of ideas which sometimes is all you can do. And that is thats when you get back to challenges that a lot of libraries are happening now in terms of being recognized. As an open source. For anyone. And that is something we are very concerned about, because then those silos get even smaller and smaller when you start restricting access to information. Ok a question in the back corner. Thank you for being with us today i am Catherine Potter part of the Pew Charitable trust planning team, i learned a lot from leaders in terms of how they spend their time and how you choose to spend your time. I am curious if you would not mind sharing how much time you spend reading and how you choose what you read . I wish i could spend more time reading. About the things that i might want to really read, i love mysteries. English cozy village, the places ive never been, but i am there. Escapism. A lot of times you read not for depth and things but to enjoy. Ive got something sitting out there now, the violin conspiracy that brings in mystery and africanamerican violinist, my dad was a violinist so i cant wait to get into that. Ive got aspirational books, usually that have to do with diet and exercise. They have their own area. [laughter] and then still do a lot of the paperback, i still read better like that. Because its generational but i do like that. About other things and a lot of nonfiction in history. And biographies. And you get a lot of that. Over here . Hi my name is hannah i am an intern with the National Foundation for legislatures and i am a College Student at american university. I hope i dont politicize the conversation to watch but speaking a little about book bands, for me at my mind turns to florida. I dont want to ask you about your views on it i feel as a library and that is obvious. I want to turn a more hopeful direction and ask what resolution you see for florida students right now as their reading options are so limited . It depends on the Access Points. You have other ways. I mentioned that underground railroad of books. There are other ways to read some of the material as well, and Public Libraries are those Access Points to. It was mentioned i was born in florida. I was born on the campus of florida a m a historically black college, so access is very important. I think they will be able to and they probably are reading most of those books right now. And they know it. But what they are fighting is that they want to make sure everyone has an opportunity to judge for themselves and parents and caregivers can determine what their own child can read. Legally. That is their right. It becomes problematic when a parent or caregiver is saying i dont want any other child to read it. You have a right to restrict your own, you can tell the library i dont want my child to read this or that or whatever. Restrict that. Its when you start telling other people what they can read is when it is problematic. I am going to switch gears and go to our online viewership. Do we have some online questions . Yes we have a lot. We have one from a participant, how can we ensure that libraries remain a vibrant, wellfunded institution in our communities . Advocate for libraries. I have been at those tax date meetings in cities. You have people lined up. Saying i want my garbage collected, i want Police Protection and everything. Go to those meetings and say libraries are important. Actually go and say this is a community resource, this is an opportunity center. We want to make sure that when you are balancing the budget and looking at that that you are doing preventive aspects of community building. And that is what libraries are a part of. The immediate saving of lives. But when you think of the longterm health of the community the libraries are that so get out there. You have those feisty fighters for freedom right there they will susan other questions . How can libraries inform americans about misinformation as well as biased information from both sides of the spectrum . Carla that is part of what we do. We are the trusted source. We have other tshirts and bags, librarians are the original surgeons. Search engine. We are the trusted guy on the side. That is part of our creed, that we try to provide the most accurate information. Especially in health. The number one reference question most libraries people have when they come in is a health question. I remember before the internet and everything, people would come in with their prescriptions from the doctor and we would look in that medical book to look up Health Information is one of the most important things people are getting from that. It is very important we look at who is providing information about a diagnosis or whatever it is. But that is where libraries shine and we learned that in library school. One of the reference courses library colleague, consider the source is basically what we say. Susan one of our virtual participants is interested in knowing who some of your mentors have been throughout your career. Carla i have been so fortunate. That Storefront Library, i was put with a young lady was going to graduate library school. I did not even know what that was. That and different librarians, different people in the communities. Ms. Pendagrass from springfield, illinois. She was a member of the church. She was also a librarian at the state library in springfield. I got to see firsthand what a library that is a big library. I have been very fortunate to have different people. One person who helped me get out to this part of the woods was john johnson, the publisher of ebony magazine, jet magazine. He was so helpful in terms of helping me think about what the importance of literacy and providing information and all of that was, and also said sometimes you have to move to do better. That is when i came out here. Susan ok. As the librarian of congress, you designate a poet laureate. Can you talk about what that is and why that matters today . Carla think about the power of language and being able to use language in creative ways to reach people that in poetry, you can go beyond just the prose in the text. You get the emotion. The library has the collection of walt whitman and mary oliver. The Poet Laureate Program was established to really emphasize the importance of that form. And one one of the joys of being librarian of congress is i get to work with an Advisory Committee of specialists, former former poet laureates who recommend people to be the poet laureate. Right now it is ada limon, who writes about nature and feelings and before we had the first native american to be poet laureate. She really had a program of connecting indigenous poetry to geography and developed maps. The first poet laureate i got a chance to be involved with was tracy k smith. It is just another way of reaching people through words. Susan do you want to stick with online or come back in the room . When we think of libraries, we think of books, the way people are accessing resources digitally. How is the library thinking about increasing Digital Access . Carla that is what we are doing. It is not just the library of congress, were thinking it about this wall street journal article. You can get ebooks, you can get all types of things digitally. Going into the future, libraries are very involved with the born digital material. We will be right there and that is another access point that we are very concerned about. Libraries have already gone down that road and are going to be even more involved. There are certain books, for instance, that you will still see picture books for very young children. Those to transfer as well to the digital form. You become more involved in the tablet than the interaction so you will still the print books and graphic novels are very popular. Digital access the libby app on my phone is the most used, audiobooks and written books. One question we get sometimes is, are you reading what you listen to a book . Yes. You are listening to the author, you are absorbing it. Audiobooks count. [laughter] susan we have another question. Jodey thomas, National Foundation for women legislators. I would love to get your take on all of the new Artificial Intelligence and whatever chat box or whatever that is called. [laughter] what is going to happen . Carla i dont know. [laughter] it is Something Else that i just wish i know educators are really having a time with that because you can say write a term paper in the style of soandso and this and that so it is exciting. It is something we might be around the same age. The jetsons . Remember that . We thought it was so out . It is here. [laughter] so you have this wonderful opportunity so you look at young people who this is a world theyre growing up in. Right now, a lot of humans are coming up with the algorithms. That is something to think about. Who is programming these things and there could be biases, there could be a lot of things. There is a need to really get into it is in the health field, it is in every field. It is an exciting time. [inaudible] carla that has already happened. The register of copyright is right in the midst of all of that. You can go on their website, copyright. Gov. They know in the next year theyre going to be very involved with that. What happens with music, starting with that, ai can create anything. Just about. You have had some unique experiences as a librarian of congress. Can you share a favorite moment with us . Carla well, ive been very fortunate. There have been a number of moments. One of the most recent moments was with our latest gershwin prize winner joni mitchell. To see her look at her copyright deposit of one of her songs in her own hand, when you see that connection and also the prizewinners we bring out the good silver, ok . [laughter] we bring out everything. And to see Smokey Robinson and berry gordy look at their submission and kind of argue about who wrote this and whose handwriting is that . So the moments when you connect someone to collections or aspects have been i think the most rewarding personally. One happened when i looked at the collections of the library of congress, and i was able to go down in the stacks. Frederick douglass, i see it and it is like the most when you go into the stacks, 836 miles of shelving, you see all of these people. 23 president s, 36 Supreme Court justices, Madeleine Albright just so many. I saw Frederick Douglass. I asked the librarian could i look, is it really Frederick Douglass . She said, yes. I guess because i was the new library and said, yes, hon. I didnt think about that later. I pulled out a random box and a random file, and it was in his own hand about the assassination of abraham lincoln. My family in springfield, my relatives are buried in oak ridge. So i grew up with that. You could see the emotion because he wrote, he was killed, assassinated, murdered. It was coming through the ink the way he was doing that. For me, that was like one of those serendipitous, pinch me moments. I did not know how serendipitous it was until later when i wanted to photocopy and use it for something and i had written down the file box and the file folder numbers, and i asked for it and librarian came up later and was looking a little sheepish. I said, what is going on . She said, well, that file was misfiled. It was supposed to be put back into a different box. So that is the kind of thing that serendipity is finding connections. So we are digitizing a lot of that unique material. Susan which will increase access. Carla you can see Teddy Roosevelts diary, rosa parkss recipe for Peanut Butter pancakes in her own hand. We are digitizing at the library of congress. Most libraries when they think about, what do you digitize, manuscripts and things, it is the unique things that you only get a chance to see in person. Susan i remember when my daughter was doing a report for high school and i have a vision of reports being written but she was incorporating amazing Digital Access like Marion Robinson i mean, just astonishing contributions. They think about it differently these days. Carla and videos you can incorporate. Youre going to have someone that i admire so much and who can talk about the use of materials, ken burns. And still does a lot of his Research Using the library of congress. Susan that is a perfect segue. [laughter] i want to thank you, carla. This has been an absolutely phenomenal discussion. Thank you for coming. But most of all, thank you for everything that you are doing and have done throughout your entire career to preserve and protect and strengthen libraries as the bastians bastions of democracy that we all know they can be. I am personally inspired that i can go out and help and i hope you all are as well. Thank you. We are going to do a 10 minute intermission. Were going to prepare for the next panel. It will be a terrific panel. Ken burns will join us, awardwinning film maker, the president of the pew research is going to join us, and the director of Washington Program s at syracuse university. Please come back and join us in 10 minutes. [applause]