President trump has made pres. Trump madeesident trump has improving our nations infrastructure a top priority. Infrastructure is critical to our nations prosperity. The Senate EnvironmentPublic Works Committee has jurisdiction over our nations highways and roads and its ports. These things allow for American Goods to go from the heartland to the coasts and even overseas. They allow for flood protection for both rural and urban communities that save lives. In addition our committee has jurisdiction over the environmental laws that impact the modernization of infrastructure. Doesnt matter whether the setting is urban or rural, rules and regulations can halt orri the modernization of infrastructure and the impact is particularly counter productive if theyre applied without understanding the difference between urban and rural. Our committee has members from both urban and rural areas. The members of this committee represent new york city and newport, rhode island, nebraska city, nebraska and mississippi. And even the town of wyoming, delaware. The diversity of these cities and towns makes it clear that solutions to address and pay for fixing our nations crumbling roads cannot be one size fits all. What works for baltimore, maryland, might not works for wyoming. Big ticket projects on the scale of the big dig in boston that cost billions of dollars or even projects that cost hundreds of millions of dollars are rare in rural and small states. Funding solutions that involve public, private partnerships as it has been discussed by Administration Officials may be Innovative Solutions for crumbling intercities but do not work for rural areas as todays testimony will show. As was stated in the written testimony submitted today on behalf of wyoming, montana, north dakota and south dakota, public, private partnership and other approaches that depend on a positive revenue stream from a project are not a Surface Transportation Infrastructure solution for rural states. This committee has a number of members who represent smaller rural states, delaware, alabama, rhode island, vermont just to name a few. We didnt forget West Virginia. I want to ensure that the voice of these states is not lost in the overall discussion of how to fix our nations infrastructure. I want to work with my colleagues to address issues important to our states while also not ignoring the legitimate needs of large metropolitan areas as well. Stated in the written testimony submitted by the five western states that i referenced earlier, federal highways in our rural states enable, quote, agriculture, energy and Natural Resource products which largely originate in rural areas to move to national and world markets. This is true. It makes no sense that to simply fix the roads and ports in our urban areas while ignoring the roads in inland ports in our rural areas that allow from products to get to the world markets. As testimony today will demonstrate, rural Water Systems also have unique challenges. Theyve been inundated by regulations from the epa which harms their ability. Rural Water Systems are challenged by the same regulations that big city Water Systems face but do no have the same resources to comply. Any Infrastructure Solutions this Committee Considers should help address rural challenges. These challenges include funding. Like their road project counter parts these systems are not the best candidates for loans. Its important to note written testimony today from the general manager of the Public Service district in West Virginia. He states, due to a lack of economys of scale in lower immediateen Household Incomes, Water Infrastructure is often less affordable a much greater cost per household. This means that a Water Infrastructure project poses a greater final risk compared to the metropolitan project and very importantly he says requires some portion of a grant, not just a loan to make the project feasible. The higher the percentage of grants required to make a project works results in less money repaid to the Funding Agency and a correlating demu in incorrelating diminution addition of the corpus fund. Were going to have to find new ways to help pay to modernize the important projects. Its my hope that in committee will work to find solutions that work for Rural America as well. I urge my colleagues to work with me in a bipartisan way to find these solutions. With that i turn to the Ranking Member for his statement. Thanks. Thank you for bringing us together for an important and i think invigorating hearing. I want to say to our guests from oklahoma and West Virginia, wyoming and from colorado by weigh of delaware and from delaware, welcome were delighted that youre here. Mr. Chairman, colleagues, these folks hear me say this more times than anyone i remember but my dad taught me born in West Virginia and grew up in virginia. My dad taught my sister and me that the things worth having are worth paying for and he used to say, i dont care if you owe somebody money, work three jobs till you can pay that off but you ought to take responsibility for your obligations. The other thing my dad used to say to my sister and me. If a jobs worth doing its worth doing well. From that i took the idea that everything i do i can do better. I think thats true of all of us. I think thats also true of every federal and state program, infrastructure, roads highways, bridges, water, waste water. My hope today youll help us sort of think outside the box a little bit. Its easy to come up with ideas on how sotospend the money. How are we going to raise that money . Need some help there and need some help in figuring out how do we get help from the same money or less money. For the record, i have that couple documents mr. Chairman be submitted for the record. I hold them in my hand. Without objection. Thanks so much. As i think most of us know our new president has raised the issue of america needing to modernize and rebuild aged infrastructure as a point of concern. Democratic senators recently released a blue print for dressing infrastructure at large, much more broader than that including water and waste water. I believe that members on both sides of the aisle are supportive of addressing this problem. This could be one of those issues that unites us and at this point in time in our nations history we could use a few of those. As a recovering governor i look at most legislation through a particular lens and the lens i look at it through is how a particular investment make for a more nut touring environment for job preservation. In this case we got a bunch of factors i want to mention a couple of them. Quality of our workforce, the skills they bring to the workplace is important. Affordable energy. Public safety. The idea of having access to capital and access to foreign markets. Research and development, investing in the right things that jfrt job creation. Tax policy, common sense regulations, access to decision makers, clean air, clean water, predictability. Businesses need predictability. In 2013 an outfit called Global Institute, they issued a report called game changer and km analyzes how the u. S. Could dramatically transform and expand our economy. In one of the top Game Changers that they gave us was infrastructure investment. Heres what they said the report show we need to invest between 150 and 180 billion more in infrastructure every year. Just to make up for years of underinvestment and to enable robust future growth. They said in the Global Institute if we invested it at this level it would add some where between 1. 4 to gdp every year. Almost double. Create 1. 8 million new jobs by 2020. For a lot of people on the sidelines that would like to go to work and need to go to work this would be a great place for them to go to work. One of the best ways to invest and get the most from our dollars is to maintain our existing infrastructure. Not just to do big, fancy new projects but to maintain our existing infrastructure. Its critical for the economy. Helps people in businesses move more efficiently. Last year the average commuter every year they give us a new update, they wasted 42 hours per person sitting in traffic, not moving. Not moving anywhere and thats sort of a typical thats like a work week for a lot of people just sitting doing nothing. Modern more modern infrastructure would mean less time. Our Nations Health our wealth security, rely on production of goods and services. Every day people and goods move across and array of physical systems chg are collectively known as our Critical Infrastructure. Its ageing and in need of significant Capital Investments to help our economy continue to grow. 2013 infrastructure report card issued by the American Society of Civil Engineers some of them are here today. They gave us for roads, dams, Drinking Water a d, d. They graded our inland water ways with d minus. Ports received a c, bridges received a c plus. Im particularly interested in hearing three key areas that while financing techniques are a tool that may be appropriate for some kinds of projects, financing by itself will not solve all infrastructure needs regardless of whether we are rural or urban state. Secondary i hope to hear more about is the need for broad infrastructure, broad Investment Strategies and while traditional forms i feel we need more investments to protect our natural infrastructure as well including our shorelines, ecosystem restoration. Risk to man made increases and many cases becomes unmanageable. Many cases becomes unmanageable. Im interesting in hearing how the federal government can be be more efficient with our current funding streams and get the most out of every dollar of federal investment. Infrastructure is a shared responsibility. In some cases with the private sector. I want to ensure that were helping state and local governments with this shared burden while giving them the flexibility they need. I also want to know how we can prioritize the assets we have first before budding new assets that we cant afford to maintain. Finally, this is no one size fits all approach to solving this challenge. Current administrator of the shoreline and waterway Management Section within the Delaware Department of Natural Resources and environmental control. I call him mr. President , president of the american shore for our nation. Hell be discussing a wide range of Water Infrastructure issues and why protect our natural infrastructures is important. Shalin comes to this hearing for the Colorado Department of transportation. Stolen from the state of delaware where he was the secretary of the department of transportation. There he led response to two hurricanes, introduced Performance Management, reduced agency debt by 30 while delivering 2 billion in infrastructure improvements. I wrote one more note here, were not blue states. Were not blue states or red states. Were the United States. We got states that are largely rural, more urban. The needs that we have in our rural states whether its water or transportation are different from maybe what we have in places like where ben and i come from and represent. But we have to look out for each other. We have to look out for each other. If we do that, well all be ahead in the game. Thank you so much. Welcome, everybody. Would you like to welcome your oklahoma witness . Yes, i would and let me mention for the benefit of our witnesses and anyone else who might be interested, the Commerce Committee and this committee have nine members that are on both and were meeting at exactly the same time. If you see members going back and forth were doing double duty this morning. And i think we can do a better job of coordinating those committees. I want to introduce the goodlooking witness we have. I already introduced tony. No, im real pleased to introduce one of our witnesses because ive known Cindy Bobbitt for a long period of time. She was the elected to the grant county board 13 years ago and currently serves as the chairman of the board. Shes been actively involved for the past eight years with the National Association of counties serving in many different capacities including vice chair of the National Transportation steering committee. Furthermore, she serves on the technical Oversight Working Group with the federal Highway Administration office of safety. As you can imagine, commissioner bobbitt is passionate about our nations infrastructure needs and her experience makes her an incredibly well qualified and informed witness for this committee. Grant county is an extremely rural agriculture county in the North Central part of oklahoma that relies heavily on proper infrastructure and has many infrastructure needs. In fact, they say that grant county has as many bridges as they do people. Commissioner bobbitt knows the issues that Rural Businesses face as she and her husband run a farm, growing wheat, grain, alfalfa and cattle. They have deep routes in oklahoma as their farm has been in their family since the land run of 1893. Commissioner bobbitt grew up in rural life driving a tractor at age nine and she bought her first piece of lantd when she was 16 years ole. She knows first hand the importance of agriculture industry to oklahomas economy and the needs in getting those goods to market. Commissioner bobbitt, i want to thank you for being here and for coming all the way from grant county to washington, d. C. Thank you, senator. Could i invite you to please introduce your witness. Thank you. It is a great deal of pleasure to introduce my friend, mike mcnolte who has the general who is the general manager of Putnam CountyWest Virginia hes testifying on the behalf of Putnam County but also the West Virginia rural Waters Association and the National RuralWaters Association. Mike is known as an expert in our state and throughout the nation in this area. He received a bachelors of science from West Virginia tech and a masters from marshal university. He served as the general manager since 2004 and he was previously the director of the bf rural water association. Rural communities and everybodys referenced this have had particularly challenges in West Virginia. Not only do we have Rural Communities but tough terrain that pose challenges in the maintenance of Drinking Water. Mikes found a way, very creatively in his area to work with the Regulatory Compliance and leverage the federal dollars. And we talked just yesterday theres still some people left that we cant forget about it and we wont forget about but i know hell bring valuable insight to this committee. Thanks for coming from West Virginia. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Id also like to introduce bill panose. Whos the 17th director since hes a graduate of California State University where he studied both physics and forren physics and forensic science. Immediately prior to headingaway. Heading wydot well hear from our witnesses and well start from the department of transportation. I do want to remind the witnesses that your full written testimony will be made part of the official hearing today so please keep your statements to five minutes so that we may have some time for questions. I look forward to hearing all the testimony today beginning with mr. Panose. Thank you. Members of the committee, director of the wyoming department of transportation. Today im presenting a statement for my own state of wyoming and the transportation departments of idaho, montana, north dakota and south dakota. As Congress ConsidersSurface Transportation Infrastructure investment, we hope that our comments will enhance understanding of transportation challenges facing rural states. Let me again get right to our key points. Federal transportation investment in rural states benefit the nation. Highways in our rural states enable truck movements between the west coast and the large cities of the midwest and the east. They benefit people and commerce at both ends of the journey. Our highways enable significant agricultural, energy and Natural Resource products to move from their rural points of origin to national and world markets. They enable tens of visitors each year to reach scenic wonders like Mount Rushmore and Yellowstone National park. So there is a national interest. And plenty of good reason for the nation to invest in rural states. There are needs for Surface Transportation Infrastructure investment in rural states as well as in all states. If Congress Advances the Surface Transportation Infrastructure would be put to good use in wyoming and other states. They would create jobs and provide safety, economic efficiency and other short and longterm benefits to the nation. Next we have some thoughts on providing some of those benefits. Public, private partnerships and other approaches that depend on a positive revenue stream are not a Surface Transportation Infrastructure solution for rural states. The traffic volumes on projects and rural states are low and almost never feasible for Revenue Generation. So rural states are unlikely to attract investors for those projects even, if any, project revenues are supplemented by tax credits. Also, with sparse populations and extensive Road Networks, the cost per capita ever of paying off principal and interest is high in rural states, a deterrent to bor rog for those projects. We do not oppose a rural and improving the nations Transportation Network but they are unlikely to result in meaningful meaningful Surface Transportation Infrastructure. Fact act approach to distribution would ensure that both rural and urban states are participating substantially in a surface Transportation Initiative. It should continue the current approximate four to one ratio funding. Also, we would have particular concern, if any, Surface Transportation Infrastructure in nonwere structured in a way that made rural state participation unrealistic. New Program Elements limited to extremely expensive projects would not be accessible by our states at least in the substantial way. That type of initiative may very well lack urban rural balance. Strengthening the Highway Trust Fund is a very important objective. The Highway Trust Fund are critical to maintain and improve americas surface infrastructure. We appreciate that in the fast act congress provided Financial Support to the trust fund and its programs through fiscal year 2020. Yet without legislation after 2020, hoit trust fund will not be able to support even Fast Act Program levels much legislation meet needs that will grow as the economy he grows. So strengthening the htf, the Highway Trust Fund is worthy of consideration and action. While our focus today is on funding and Financial Issues we also encourage congress to take steps to increase federal Program Flexibility and simplify program deliver ywe want each program dollar to deliver more benefits. Before closing ill briefly mention that our rural states face significant Financial Funding challenges. We are geographically large. We include vast tracts of federal lands. We have extensive Highway Networks and low population densities. This means that we have very few people to support each lane mile of federal highway yet rural states contribute to this effort significantly. Nationally per capita contribution to the highway account of the Highway Trust Fund is approximately 111. Per capita contribution to the highway account attributable wyoming is three times as much at 319. So any surface Transportation Initiative congress develops should be crafted in a way that makes into account funding challenges facing rural states. In conclusion, mr. Chairman, those are some of our key points and thanks again for the opportunity to be here today. Thanks so much. Welcome and please begin. Thank you. Good morning. Members of the committee. My name is mike mcnolte a state chartered Drinking Water and waste Water Utility located just outside of charleston, West Virginia. On behalf of West Virginia were grateful that youve included a voice for Rural America at this hearing. Before i begin my remarks id like to say thank you to our states junior senator for her assistance in improving West Virginia rural Water Infrastructure. We were able to construct a new 16 million waste water utiflt expansion that allowed us to extend service to 400 homes and businesses. This is a very important project and your assistance was essential, thank you. When thinking about national Water Infrastructure proposals please remember that almost all of our countrys water both Drinking Water and sewer are small, small in Rural Communities have more difficult affording Public Water Service due to the lack of population density in economies of scales. In many states the great majority of community Water Systems serve fewer than 10,000 people, for example, in West Virginia its 444 of the 468 community Water Systems. In wyoming its 300 of the 319 systems and in delaware its 196 of the 213 community Water Systems. While we have fewer resources, we are regulated in the exact same manner as large community. In 2017 there are Rural Communities in america that still do not have access to safe Drinking Water or sanitation due to the lack of population density or funding. Some in my county. If rural and small town america is not specifically targeted in legislation to fund new Water Infrastructure initiatives the funding well bypass Rural America enbe absorbed by large metropolitan systems. Small community are more difficult to fund because they are smaller in scale. Numerously indicated funding applications have to be completed and approved compared to one large project. This is compounded by the reality that some small communities lack the administrative expertise to complete the necessary application process and perhaps lack the political appeal of some large cities. Secondly, the lack of customer density in Rural America compounded with lower immediateen Household Incomes means Water Infrastructure is often a much greater cost per household. This means that a Water Infrastructure project poses a greater final risk compared to a metropolitan project and even more importantly requires some portion of Grant Funding not just loan dollars to make the project feasible. In the last ten years my district has borrowed over 50 million from the federal government for projects that were essential to our sustainability and expansion. We could not have secured this funding from the commercial markets and kept the rates affordable for our customers. My Water Utility provides a good example of what Water InfrastructureDevelopment Means to Rural America. Since its Early Development in the 1960s our Water Utility infrastructure has expanded rapidly. Regionalizing or inner connecting with other smaller communities to extend water and Sewer Service and become the engine in our county. One of our Utility Partners the town of buffalo was able to finance the sewer expansion that was needed to fund the new toyota plant. Without the expansion of our infrastructure, we would not have been able to service the toyota manufacturing plant. And southern West Virginia, much of our Water Infrastructure was built over 100 years ago by coal companies. We have areas in my county with failing septic systems that need to be services by extending sewer lines. We still have pockets of people with no Drinking Water at all and they rely on hauling water. Rural communities are in need of economic stimulus. For example, in West Virginia and wyoming, the recent declines in the Energy Sector have resulted in massive losses of jobs, state revenue and the corresponding decrease in state infrastructure funding. A new Infrastructure Initiative targeted toward Rural Communities would be a welcome economic stimulus in Rural America. In closing, mr. Chairman, every rural and Small Community in the country thanks you and the committee for the numerous opportunities this committee has provided Rural America. Thank you. Mrs. Bobbitt. Thank you for the very warm welcome. Chairman, Ranking Member and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for holding todays Committee Hearing on modernizing our nations infrastructure inviting me to testify on behalf of the National Association of counties. Infrastructure is important to our nations 3,069 counties because we build and maintain 45 of the public roads, 40 of the bridges and a third of the nations transit and airports. My name is Cindy Bobbitt and i serve as chair of the grunt county oklahoma commissioners. It serves a population of 4,500 our and local economy is largely based on agriculture and Natural Resources. We are responsible for 92 of over 1,900 public road miles in the county. We also have the most bridges or bridgelike structures over 30 3,500. Think about that. Thats almost one bridge for every resident. While this infrastructure was ideal for transporting live stock and crops 70 years ago it is inadequate to support todays heavier trucks, increased traffic and higher operating speeds and grant county is not alone. Roughly twothirds of the nations counties are considered rural and face similar infrastructure challenges. Today i will highlight some of these challenges and provide recommendations for ways congress can help us tackle these issues. First, Rural Counties are facing numerous challenges that strain our local funding options. 42 states limit the ability for counties to raise or change property taxes and only 12 states authorize us to collect our own local glass taxes. We often have to choose between investing in infrastructure or in funding our Emergency Services, courthouses and Health Departments just to name a few. Second, Rural Counties are experiencing increasing demands on our transportation infrastructure which can no longer accommodate our agriculture and energy needs. While local governments can do all we can and we are trying to, according to the federal highway according to the federal Highway Administration, 40 of county roads are inadequate for current needs and nearly half of our rural bridges are structurally deficient. Third, counties raise are facing high cost of Infrastructure Projects. Based on the american road and transportation builders association, the cost of construction, materials and labor for highway and bridge projects increased 44 between 2000 and 2013. Just a few years ago in grant county, we could budget for a road reconstruction project at less than half a Million Dollars. Today that same project will cost about 1 million per mile. With these challenges in mind we have some recommendations to strengthen our nations infrastructure. First, congress should make more federal highway dollars available for locally owned infrastructure. County, roads, bridges and highways serve as a lifeline for our citizens and are critical to the movement of freight and other goods to services to market. While more Financing Options are available in urban areas, rural areas do not often attract that same interest from the private sector. Now more than ever we need a strong federal, state, local partnership to remain competitive. Second increased federal fund to go bridges particularly off system bridges is vital. We must build for the future not the present. 20 years ago we were building our bridges 18 to 20 feet wide. Today were building our bridges 24 to 26 feet wide, but that is not going to be wide enough to accommodate our larger and heavier equipment. According to u. S. Dot to eliminate the nations bridge deficient back log by 2028 we would need to invest 20 billion annually, well above the 12. 8 billion invested today. Third, an increased focus on safety and high risk rural roads will help our communities and help reduce the number of fatalities we see each year and finally, we urge congress to increase the role of counties in statewide planning and projects selection processes. We recognize that there are more infrastructure needs than there are Funds Available. However, counties have the ability to provide input on potential projects and can help maximize the effectiveness of federal infrastructure dollars. In closing, as Congress Considers ways to modernize our nations infrastructures, counties, stand ready to work with our federal partners to achieve our shared goals of strengthening Transportation Networks, improving Public Safety and advancing our economic competitiveness. Thank you, mr. Chairman and members of the committee for the opportunity to testify today. Thank you, ms. Bobbitt. Thank you for your testimony. Welcome mr. Pratt we look forward to hearing from you. I appreciate the time to address the committee today and i want to thank Ranking Member carper for recognizing something a little bit out of the box. Were not talking about roads in this testimony, were talking about Green Infrastructure, particularly coastal infrastructure. Tony pratt, im the czar of shoreline for the state of delaware and also the president of asbpa which is a National Nonprofit organization advocating for beaches through science and good public policy. Infrastructure obviously from our Panel Members is something which we talk about in rural terms of roads and bridges and men built infrastructure, but the Green Infrastructure that im talking about particularly beaches, dunes and wetlands are incredibly important for a number of factors. The safety that they provide during storms, the recreational opportunities and the great number of jobs that comes with those components. I want to talk about the kind of jobs first of all that come from beaches, construction of beach erosion projects is something that provides opportunities for engineers and planners and economists. Its an opportunity for dredge companies with a tremendous amount of employment to come in and do work. We think about beaches and delaware is a good example, rehoboth beach, had some good times there, is we think about the primary jobs, restaurant help, cooks, chefs, wait staff, hotels and motels and the employment there. We talk about people who our lifeguards and retail sales and real estate sales. But theres another facet of jobs that we dont talk about very much thats plummers, electricians, roofers builders, any number of trade jobs, hoetel and mowtel Management Hotel and Motel Management books up and down the coast. Because of the recreation attraction of the coastline. Dr. James houston who is the Research Laboratory from mississippi indicated in work that hes done the beaches get more Recreational Use than all of our National Parks combined. This adds up to a Major Economic impact. Helps to generate 2. 25 billion to the economy annually. In 2012, for every one dollar invested by the federal government, the federal government returned 570 in annual tax revenues from beach tourism. One dollar spent, 570 returned. Its a very good investment we believe. For every Million Dollars invested approximately that those 30 jobs created. Coastal infrastructure is a wise investment. You either pay now or pay later. We have found in numerous storms, many storms that have hit the golf and atlantic coast, that the impacts are tremendous. 65 billion was allocated for the states primarily for massachusetts to North Carolina and concentrated on maryland to massachusetts. 65 billion was allocated to restore from that and recover from that. If we took a third of that about 20 billion and had invested in that in over the nation over the last 20 years would have been about a billion dollar investment, we have found that in the in sandy where there were good beaches and dunes in place, 1. 9 billion was saved because of that investment. We believe that if we had done that 20 billion over 20 years for the entire nation about a billion dollars a year that number would have been far higher and that 65 billion need would have been much greater reduced. Beaches and do you knows provide many benefits. We talk about jobs, we talking about the protection they afford. We also factor the dividing line between open water and estriion waters. In delaware we had an example of the department of interior investing 38 million. Had we spent two to three Million Dollars in restoring the beach prior to the damage being occurred we would have avoid that 38 million investment. Its wise for a lot of factors. We believe in my summary statement we believe from the state of delaware that a higher investment that protects structures that provides jobs, that provides protection for our nations productive habitats is a wise investment. We are advocating for something in the order of 5 billion over the next ten years. I know theres probably justification for a higher number than that. I think thats a modest request. We think that that number should be much higher and i thank you for your time today. Thank you very much for your testimony. We appreciate hearing from you. And id like to go please begin. Thank you, sir. I want to thank you chairman and Ranking Members. I also want to recognize another neighbor and thank him for his efforts to pass authorization. In the interest of time i will summarize my testimony. In addition to serving as the secretary of transportation in delaware and as the executive director of colorado i also served as the Deputy Director of kentucky transportation cabinet. So im keenly aware of the balance of urban and rural needs in the country and how its not a one size fits all solution. Colorado is a large diverse state with rapidly growing metropolitan areas. And vast rural areas that rely on effective and well maintained Transportation System to move agriculture and Energy Products to market. Im going to tell a quick story that i used a couple years ago in testimony prior to passage of the fast act. I tell this story because its indicative of the challenges we face. When i first began as the executive director of the colorado d. O. T. I took an 1,100 mile trip around kroft. The first traffic jam i got into was in a pretty rural part of the state up near ft. Collins on i25. I25 is the major north south artery not just for passenger traffic but also an important freight corridor that connects canada and mexico. Freights an important part of our job in the transportation world. When we got outside of the denver, we headed north we got to a four lane section which is similar a lot of the interstate thats present in rural areas. It was a thursday morning after rush hour, so i was assumed there was an incident ahead because the traffic reminded me of the beltway in baltimore. That was just how traffic flowed on i25 on a regular basis. So when i asked what the plan was to add capacity i was told that the plans on the books were for that section of i25, a 45 mile section to be widened in 2070 based on current funding level so 16yearold who got their drivers license could have anticipated that road being widened when they turned 70 years old and that is just unacceptable and that is not an urban problem or rural problem that is a problem for the state of colorado and for commerce. Like the rest of the nation funding for transportation in colorado is at a crossroads. Our primary source of funding have not increased in nearly 25 years. Now in order to advance these important improvements to the i. 25 corridor we have called together state, local and private funds with toll back bonds and a 15 million tiger grant to construct just a 14 mile first phase from loveland to fort collins. There remains over 1 billion in unfunded needs. We have an annual budget of 1. 4 billion. The vast majority of which goes to Asset Management which we dont even fund fully. We are short 1 billion a year to meet the currently identified Transportation Needs throughout the state. In fact, in the next decades we have 10 billion in unmet funding needs for highway and transit projects across colorado. We are working to address the severely deficient of i25 south of denver between Colorado Springs and denver. These are the two largest cities in the state. Were working towards having that project ready to go in 18 months, but we lack 400 million to 500 million to make the initial yimt proechlts. We are poised to move forward in 2018 in denver but were short about another billion dollars on that project. Every year we delay that project goes up. We take advantage of financing tools such as Public Private partnerships but financing alone does not solve our funding challenge in transportation. Weve been challenged to do more with less. We are trying to do that. Weve implemented Cash Management to flush out any cash reserves. Where it makes sense were using tolling and Public Private partnerships. Were embracing technologies, vehicle to Vehicle Infrastructure and vehicle to vehicle technologies will help us operate the system much more efficiently but that does not change the need that we have a significant need for investment in this system. To conclude i would respectfully thank this committee for their attention and care and say that the timing is right for additional revenues to states through the existing funding formulas for us to invest in our infrastructure. The economy continues to recover and significant new investment will be necessary to sustain and expand on that economic growth. We stand ready to partner with the federal government to make significant investments in our Transportation System for the benefit of all americans. Im happy to answer any questions. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. For your testimony, we appreciate you being here. Were going to turn to questions and i will start with director anpanose. Build america Bonds Program that was part of the 2009 stimulus package. You note that it doesnt work for rural states who want to build roads and bridges. It looked i looked at that list of projects funded by build america bonds on the Treasury Department website. When you look at it, our state of wyoming had six projects the six projects, the state of delaware had six projects, vermont had four projects, West Virginia had two projects, rhode island had only one project. In contrast new york had 59, california 158, illinois 245. Could you explain to the committee why these sorts of bond programs dont really work for some of the smaller states . Its a great question mr. Chairman. My response really is limited to Service Transportation and the explanation really relies on the characteristics of rural states. As i said in my written testimony, we have low population densities and we have very extensive Road Networks so paying back the principal and interest involves a high cost per capita and it discourages borrowing for transportation and rural states and, in fact, after talking with state treasure this , state treasurer this week wyoming has never borrowed for a road project, surface transportation project in the state of wyoming. Thats how i would at least briefly respond to the question. And never borrowed in 120 some years, so never borrowed. Thats correct. Am i correct in assuming that all things being equal that if Additional Resources are provided, that you would rather have these resources go to your departments . Because youre provided testimony for a number of different states for five different states it would go to your departments so the states could decide where to apply the funds . Absolutely, mr. Chairman. Youre here representing the interest of the transportation departments in five different states. What would you say is the principle concern of the rural states in developing the programs within the framework as described by the fast act . First, its important to note that the fast act struck a very good balance with respect to rural and urban interest and i want to thank congress for that. They did a great job of moving the fact act through and balancing urban and rural interest. Theres also a concern but i think its in a number of different states about the stop and go of the federal actions and the fast act as you know runs through 2020 which provides more stability than other recent authorizations. Yet as to the appropriations i think were operating under a full year now of a continuing resolution which restricts our ability actually to plan for future projects. And in our state we just finished or were working with our state legislature now and needed to ask for twice the amount of Borrowing Authority to be able to cover some of those cost, cash flow needs for the projects as it relates to the continuing resolution. So in other states thats our state but in other states advanced construction and borrowing against state funds keep projects on schedule. The second is flexibility, Program Flexibility in delivering programs and projects is fairly complex and planning and Program Requirements sort of keep us keep multiplying and the Performance Management rules also add to that and so developing some ideas like were doing here today in areas to improve Program Flexibility i think will help a great deal. Those were just a couple of observations, continuing resolution and stop and go and Program Delivery. All the Water Systems in West Virginia as well as wyoming serve populations fewer than 10,000 people. The like larger Water Systems these small systems still need to comply with complex federal regulations, with less administrative and Technical Expertise than the larger counter parts do. Could you talk about what steps congress could take to simplify compliance because we dont want to sacrifice safety. I believe congress could allocate more funds for Technical Assistance in training, to help the smaller communities and the operators and administrators to ensure that theyre able to be up on all of the regulations that come out of the epa and so forth and i believe that would really be the biggest benefit to have more dollars to go to Technical Assistance. Senator carper. When was the last time wyoming raised their gas tax . Not very long ago. 2013, right. Three or four years ago. Yeah. By ten cents. We did. Did everybody that voted for that get thrown out of office . No. Why not . The state and the citizens there saw a need for it. Is there a lesson there for us in the congress . Im sorry . Is there a lesson for us in the congress . Certainly in our state and in our particular state, it was necessary because of the changing economy in our state. Our state went through and continues to go through an economic shift that is not repeated in many states but my friend to the left here in West Virginia has had that as well. The state legislature saw that coming and they were support certain transportation projects by moving that forward. It was very difficult in the state legislature to move that forward. Wyoming was very aware of its impending future and were proactive at being able to support that. Yeah. Were scheduled to run out of money in the federal Transportation Trust fund in 2020. I remind my colleagues its three years from now, but its just around the corner. West virginia. Former congressman from new york state with whom i served. Actually another michael mcnulty. Were glad youre here. Abraham lincoln said the role of government is to do for the people what they cannot do for themselves. What is the role of the federal government with respect to addressing the Drinking Water needs and waste water needs of states like my native West Virginia . Thank you, senator. The federal governments, and i see it as the obligation to the ensure that the funds are available for any mandate that comes down the pipeline for additional tests and Water Quality standards. I believe its certainly the federal governments obligation to make sure that communities receive the funds in order to receive the funds in order to comply. And no unfunded mandates. Good. Im going to ask you to answer for the record, not here, because i dont have enough time. I ask all of you to answer for the record, what are things we need to do that i think we tried to do that in the f. A. S. T. Act to try to get better results for less money. What can we do or should we do between now and 2020 to enable you to get better results for less money, and if i had more time i would ask you to answer that on the record. And for tony and shay lynn, it is nice to see you and thank you for the service to the United States and your state. We have a road in delaware called state route 1 and you can pick it up, you come through it on i95, between wilmington and newark and pick it up, route 1 from dover to the beach, and we have more fivestar beaches, and go from delmarva, ocean city, and to virginia. There is a bridge they go visit that goes over an inlet. Theres an inlet called indian river inlet. Its just north of bethany beach. It flows east west with the tides. Several bridges built there over time and we had to eventually replace the bridge because of scar that going on in the inland. When Hurricane Sandy came to town, it had an adverse effect on the bridge there. I wanted to ask tony and jaylen just take a minute, talk to us about the intersection of shoreline protection, dune protection and an infrastructure, major infrastructure investment, over 100 million. How did that intersect there . Ill start because i was responsible for that bridge during Hurricane Sandy, was driving toward route 1 and got a call from the governor and said on cnn he saw our new 250 million bridge washed away. Instead of turning left, i turned right. Turns out the new bridge had not washed away. The old bridge had washed away which i think was a pretty good justification for us to replace the old bridge. It was a pretty, you know, those hurricanes, you know, and i remember when i first became the secretary in delaware, three weeks after that, irene showed up. Everybody told me hurricanes dont come here. They often veer off or go somewhere else. In my four years there, we had two hurricanes so something changed around that. The infrastructure is so critically important. What i was struck by is how once the land link was lost how incredibly impacted those communities were. And people trying to get out, get back in. Their kids get to school. You know, i would just say that it just draws home the importance of investment in infrastructure and its so incredibly important that we do make intelligent investments. My times expired. Thank you for that. Ill say to my colleagues, we spent a fortune on that new bridge. The next hurricane that comes along could further undermine that bridge if we dont invest in the dune protection and beach protection. One hand sort of washes the other. Thats an important point i wanted to make. Thank you. Thank you, senator carper. Senator inhofe. I have to tell you, when the tornadoes veer off, they come to oklahoma. First of all, i have something to submit for the record, plcht chairman. This is the Largest Coalition ive seen. This is a letter to President Trump from over 500 organizations through almost everything in america. Theres a level of popularity and ask that be admitted part of the record. Without objection. You know, youve had a little bit of an addvantage because youve had a lot of advice and counsel with yuri ridley. Im sure you and mr. Spanos both are friends of gary ridley. Hes actually served as a witness before this committee more than anyone else in history of this committee. Because he knows the subject. Weve been able to pass a lot of good things and i and i think weve done some pretty creative things. Now, commissioner bobbitt, its unique the challenges you face in a very rural, rural oklahoma and youve gotten had to be creative from time to time. Could you expand on the challenges and give an example or two of how youve gotten projects over the finish line with the limited funds in your county . Thank you for that question. Yes, grant county is very rural. 4,500 people. While we have the most bridges and the fifth highest number of road miles in the entire state of oklahoma, yet our funding is 63rd out of 77 counties. So we definitely have a challenge. But one unique thing that we have done in the past as counties we worked as a partnership with the Oklahoma Department of transportation, gary ridley, and we came across when they were going to deconstruct the i40 crosstown bridge, there were a lot of used beams there. Now, beams that we could have our engineers inspect and look at and we recycled them, so we took ownership. Counties took ownership of all those 2,000 beams and brought them back to our counties. Grant county received over 100 of those beams. More beams than any other county. We have more bridges than any other county. Successfully, we have already built ten new bridges and have more beams to put if place as soon as we get the funding. That talks about how important a partnership is. That was a state and local partnership. We also would like to have that same partnership with the federal government to help us bring home projects. Yeah. As you know, the president has talked about the Public Private partnerships. Is there anything, any comments you could make about how you have been successful in doing that in your area . The partnerships, the private partnerships would probably work really good for oklahoma and tulsa county, but the partnerships might not work so well for our very rural county. We have Municipal Bonds that are tax exempt that we need to protect because we use that type of finances to help us move our projects forward. During the f. A. S. T. Act, ive had the advantage of dealing with these issues for 22 years in the senate, and 8 years before on the committee in the house. I have been here for all of those reauthorizations that we have had. One of the problems we had, people forget about this, up until of the middle 1990s, the biggest problem with the Highway Trust Fund is we had too much surplus. We know what happened to that. We know now were in a crisis. One of the things we have done has been more you addressed this, mr. Bhatt, a little more creative on things we could do in the bill in giving more power to the states and giving them options, for example, on the enhancement percentages saying from state to state, in california they may have different ideas than we have in oklahoma, how to use those. We gave different states that option. What do you think about giving states more of those types of options and how you can stretch your dollars a little bit more. Anything we can do to adjust the rural states through those adjustments are very, very do you agree with that . Here this is a trend weve started. Giving more of the options to the states. Do you agree thats moving in the right direction . Thank you, senator. Yes. I would say one of the best parts of the f. A. S. Stvmtt. Act in addition to the certainty was the flexibility and its incumbent upon states to work with locals and others to make really good decisions. We pass on and interact closely with our local partners to make sure it is a colorado or a delaware or a oklahoma solution. Good. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator inhofe. Senator duckworth . Thank you, mr. Chairman. This question is for mr. Pratt. The flint water crisis tragically taught our country a new lesson of the dangers of old infrastructure in allowing our Water Infrastructure to crumble, millions of families find themselves in real danger of drinking leadcontaminated water. Not every community is satisfied with this dangerous status quo. In madison, wisconsin, local officials demonstrated leadership in throwing away bandaid fixes. They actually at the local level committed to a decadelong Infrastructure Project that culminated in fully replacing every lead service line in madison. Now, when my constituents learn about the infrastructure initiate if complete they dont understand why the children of wisconsin deserve greater protection than the children of illinois and delaware. There is no good answer, and this is why the Congress Needs to act swiftly and unanimously with direct funding support, far greater than our efforts to date to jumpstart vital water projects. As a state official, mr. Pratt, who must struggle daily in the needs of fiscal challenges and meet the needs of your residents, would you concur that states delaware both needs and would put to good use direct federal investments and Critical Infrastructure such as safe Drinking Water . Ill answer that from the perspective of certainly the overarching theme is we have not invested as we should have as a nation in that infrastructure. I would certainly welcome any other comments of the panel. Its not my world of expertise on walterter supply but certainly the stories we hear from around the nation are compelling stories about how i think that the overarching issue is that we have an appetite for construction of new and not much of an appetite as a nation for maintenance of what weve built in the past or improvement of what weve built in the past. Thats a philosophical point i think that needs to change. Im not an expert in water supply issues but thank you for the question, anyway. Sen. Duckworth not necessarily just water supply. People of illinois sent me to the senate with a clear message, americans are willing, ready, eager to start rebuilding our nation at all levels, all infrastructure. When i travel across illinois from Rural Communities to suburban neighborhoods, theres a unifying call on congress, please work to modernize our nations infrastructure. Make it a priority. Whether it is roads, rail, simply put, illinoisans Want Congress to place a big bet on america. They want their tax dprarsollars invested in American Workers and American Companies to rebuild and modernize american infrastructure and must go beyond road, rail and bridges. We should be wise in making sure our investments succeed in the 21st century. Includes invest, in broadband to empower every family to access. I have parts of illinois where our kids cant do their homework because they dont have access to broadband. We cant track businessattract businesses to Rural Communitiesy sies because theres no broadband. Its all of it. Theres a role here to play for federal government to come in and provide resources in partnership with local and states. I dont want us to fall into the trap, madison replaced all of their own lead water supply so thats what every state should do, to each their own. Anybody on the Witness Panel can certainly talk to this. How important is the role of federal government coming in with federal dollars to help you be able to do this . Ill answer that from my perspective, too. Its in the world that i work in. Its very imperative that the federal government take an involved position. Home rule indicates that the local communities will develop their own Land Use Plan and develop as they see is best for their community. Thats across the board, residential and industrial and recreational areas and commercial areas. And when that fabric of community is built, if theres anything that is imperil, the federal government has to come in, if theres a tornado, a hurricane, or an earthquake or storm, the federal government has to respond. A community that has no roads left after the storm, or a tornado wiped out a community in oklahoma. Its the federal government that will have to put the dollars up there. Investment ahead of time before the disaster, before the crisis has occurred is an important turning point we need to make and i believe absolutely the federal government has a tremendous amount to save by that investment. Sen. Duckworth i thank you for those comments. Anybody else on the panel . On the end. 70 of our transportation dollars in colorado come from the federal government so its incredibly important there is a strong federal role in transportation investment and on the broadband comment, governor hickenlooper directed us to work with the Economic Development folks to provide broadband, the new highways of the 21st century. Its incredibly important for us in colorado as well. Sen. Duckworth im out of time, mr. Panos. Youll have to respond on the record. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank all of you. A couple of things. Id like to start with mr. Mcnulty. First of all, id like for the record to thank you as a resident of charleston, West Virginia, affected by the Chemical Spill into our primary water source. Putnam county Water District really came to the rescue for a lot of folks who were without water. So i dont know if you want to take a couple seconds and say some of the things you did as a regional resource to help people who were without water in a crisis. Mr. Mcnulty thank you, senator. Our Water Utility, we immediately were in contact with the governors office. Governor tomlin. And we worked with his staff to make sure that they could start bringing in tankers. We do have a fuel station right located at our Water Treatment facility. And we also we helped local folks that came in with their own containers fill those containers and so forth. So we did play an active role. So did many other rural utilities surrounding the county and so forth. A lot of folks helped out. Sen. Capito well, your help was very much appreciated and everybodys help. I think West Virginias Rural Communities around the country are known for neighbors helping neighbors. Certainly in that instance you all definitely helped us. Id like to kind of pivot off something mr. Pratt mentioned. In your experience at putnam, in Putnam County, are you looking more at extending new or replacing old . I mean, wheres the push pull there in terms of Water Infrastructure . Mr. Mcnulty both, actually. We are expanding, as i mentioned earlier in my testimony, we just finished up a large sewer expansion to existing homes and businesses. But were also very well aware of the maintenance that has to be done and upkeep of our system, so weve expanded our Water Treatment plant, as you know. Sen. Capito right. Is it easier to get funding for one or the other . Mr. Mcnulty i havent had a difficult time obtaining funding for either one. Sen. Capito ok. Ok. The other thing in your testimony, you mentioned the we passed the water bill last year as we were leaving and in that is wifia which is a Water Infrastructure financinge inging method similar to tifia for the waterways and for water projects. Now, in my view, this holds great promise, i feel as though, for another funding mechanism for Rural America, Rural AmericaWater Systems. Youve expressed some skepticism for that. Would you like to speak about that . Mr. Mcnulty yes, maam. The wifia will not really benefit smaller Rural Communities because you have to have larger projects to qualify. Of course, our greatest concern is we do not want to see any of the funds from the Drinking Water srf or the clean water srf go to fund wifia. We want to make sure those funds stay in stakt. Sen. Capito i think the intention of wifia is to use those as a jumping point, not intending to decrease their value or decrease their amounts but to use them as a leverage point. I wonder if it would be possible for local smaller projects it band together for a wifia project. I dont know if those are within the bonds of the law. Do you know that . , i dont know that senator. I would like to ask you, mr. Panos, on the transportation issue, you mentioned in your statement that the ppps dont work for rural areas. Weve had a couple in actually mikes backyard, route 35, thats been a ppp project that i honestly dont think were on the verge of getting it completed now could have gone on if we hadnt had the ability for our state d. O. T. To use the ppp projects. Why is that not working in Rural America . Is it the scale or what . Mr. Panos thank you for the question. Generally in the rural states, we just dont have the Revenue Generation or the volumes that would support a Public Private partnership concept. Certainly other systems as well, other financing systems, we could look at but direct funding works best for us through the formulaic system. Its based on the type of volumes we have. Sen. Capito can your state sell bonds to begin paying afternoon inging on a payback so you can get the project done earlier earlier . Theyre called garvey bonds in West Virginia. Mr. Panos senator, we have used garvey bonds. Our primary source is through the federal government. The comment earlier i think was made about the ten cent fuel tax i guess was passed four to five years ago. That only pays less than 20 of the cost of the surface transportation, and the vast majority comes from the federal government through the formulaic system. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Like my other colleagues i believe in the supporting the implementation of the infrastructure, and to advance our safety and commerce. The Highway Trust Fund has served to equitably distribute funds to states, rural and urban, and is the linchpin of our Transportation System. As many here are aware, the Congressional Budget Office projects the Highway Trust Fund will face a deficit of wulell over 100 billion in the 5 years following the f. A. S. T. Act expiration. So thats why i have introduced the new bill, infrastructure act, to repair the highway Solvency Fund without raising taxes of hardworking americans. Id like to ask the state d. O. T. Directors mr. Panos and mr. Bhatt. How does this come to maintaining the roads and bridges, is there any substitute for this critical apportion funding . Mr. Bhatt, would you like to start, please . Thank you so much, senator. Funding certainty is everything and, you know, i do conservative talk radio once a month. I just go on the show and i got its not always a love fest. Its important for government to talk to our constituents. Somebody said why did you stop this project at point x, why didnt you any fool could see all you had to do was continue it on down another 20 miles. Unfortunately, we have to have logical terms, based on the needs. One of the best parts about the f. A. S. T. Act was getting us out of that cycle of continuing resolutions around funding. If we have certainty around funding, then we could make better plans and it costs states and all taxpayers less money when we have certainty. And mr. Panos. For wyoming and surface transportation, i think that certainly the idea of certainty in funding, federal funding, is very, very important to us. Were very conservative in terms of how we look at finance our system. Our system is not being expanded as we speak. Its being preserved. And so we are just getting in enough money to preserve the system that we have now. Our 2,000 bridges and 7,000 miles of roads. For us, we take a very conservative role. I think the proposal that, you know, identifies the proposal that youre talking about i think identifies about youre referring to identifies a couple of things. It identifies the Highway Trust Fund is not going to be a consistent source of funding after 2020, thats critically important to us, were not expanding, were preserve what we have there. The investment has been made by the federal government. The second is it really looks at the process, regulatory review, of the projects and looks at how time consuming that is and the need to improve that. We support both of those things. Those are things that i think not only wyoming but other rural states would agree with. Its good you stepped up and put some of those ideas front and center for us to look at. How we go about that, well work with congress obviously well work with congress over the next few months to develop. But i think theyre solid ideas. We, like colorado, are looking for consistency. Yeah, thank you for your compliment of the proposal. I think it i think its really important to identify a consistent Revenue Source without raising taxes at the federal level to be able to fund beyond maintenance because we all need to make sure we have that capacity in the future as well. And you you mentioned a second part of my proposal that really addresses the critical delays that projects are faced when they have to wait for that federal government approval. And i can tell you that my state has spent time and money on those burdensome federal Highway Administration processes that really dont change any outcomes. Moving forward. For example, were looking at upgrading a substandard dodge street s curve project in omaha and seen costs grow by 3 million because of these burdens that are out there. Again, this idea thats in the build usa infrastructure act, its based on a proposal that i was able to get advanced in the state of nebraska thats proved successful and hopefully we will be able to have a conversation on that here. But i would ask you, both, mr. Panos, you addressed part of it but would i believe the greater state authority over this approval process is going to, because weve shown that its going to move that approval process forward without really taking shortcuts. Were still going to meet the requirements that are there, but i think its a better a better system to put in place and a better use of taxpayer dollars. Would either of you like to address that . Just on the delays youve faced with going through the federal Highway Administration. Thank you, senator. Im quite torn on the answer that i give you and i say this with all respect. I, as a director of d. O. T. s, have fought with the federal Highway Administration to try and expedite projects over the years where we were ready to go on something. So on the one hand, expea diet peepeditesing projects is very good. We have a big project, 1. 2 billion viaduct project in denver that is take 13 years to get to it. And some people think it is ridiculous. Theres a school next to that project. If my children went to that school, i wouldnt want the state d. O. T. To come in and say, hey, were moving the road next to you. Were taking 63 homes in the process of that. One of the federal requirements we have to follow, theres certain rules and rigegulationregulations, when we take properties we have to show the burden. As the state d. O. T. Person, i would love for there to be fewer regulations, as someone impacted by the project, i think some of those federal regulations do serve a purpose. And i wouldnt disagree with you on that, but i think if we can expedite, that would always be a saving. I apologize. Im over my time. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much, senator fischer. Senator rounds . Thank you, mr. Chairman. It isnt very often we have an opportunity in a Committee Like this to talk about what we want to see in the future. Youve heard the president suggest that infrastructure is critical. Youre hearing members on both sides of the aisle saying that the time is now to actually start discussing how we do Infrastructure Development in the United States coming up. And i want to take just a different level than simply asking you about rules and regulation ands and so forth. My friend, the Ranking Member, as a former governor in his home state, recognized they could make good decisions about what their needs were. They see major issues we dont see in south dakota. Theyre concerned about rising water levels in their neck of the woods. South dakota, were concerned about things like our Rural Development of the basic infrastructure of simply delivering rural water. Matter of fact, weve got rural water programs in south dakota that the states fully funded their share of it and yet the federal government hasnt got enough money in it to actually pick up their share and the cost is going up. Weve got people that dont have that water available. Weve got other rural Water Systems in the state, and they dont have enough money to do the maintenance on some areas and they havent quite filled them out yet. Just for a minute what id like to do, as individuals that have a clear understanding from the state and local level, the opportunities and capabilities that you have, i want to reach out a little bit here. Lets make a couple of assumptions that perhaps a lot of people in this country will say will never come true. Some people say were talking about la la land or fairyland. Lets assume republicans and democrats actually agreed on a need for an infrastructure bill. Number two, lets agree, take the assumption and keep the snickers down, ok, lets agree that Congress Actually agreed on a funding bill and that Congress Actually agreed on differently than in the past, actually agreed on how they were going to pay for the funding bill. Lets agree we actually agreed on how we would distribute a significant part of those funds back to states and local units of government. Lets say we actually had the fore sight to talk about roads and bridges, Water Development, about broadband which is clearly important and perhaps give some opportunities for states and local units of government to have some flexibility, what they saw as needed Economic Development. Lets just say they actually had the foresight to make a deal with the states where the states actually had some skin in the game and had a match. Similar to what we have in the highway fund. I know im making some major stretches here, but lets say we also said that we expected that a number of different projects could be made available, ports of entries along the border, whether youre talking about ports along our coast, airports, road bridges, Water Development and so forth. This is your opportunity to just expand in terms of what your capabilities are and what the limitations are the feds currently put in place. What we do to hamstring you bulletbut also the things you think youre capable of doing. Can i ask each of you, share a few seconds about what you see as your capabilities and what you could do with the resources if you had that shot. What could you do to make it better for the people that live in your area . Yes . Senator, if i could start, for us in wyoming, certainly with surface transportation, which im speaking about today, wed implement more safety projects. Safety is our number one issue. Safety projects and put them on the ground, whether that be construction of additional lanes or other kinds of safety systems, we would. We are maintaining what we have and thats what we have dollars for right now. We have a great relationship with the federal Highway Administration, a great relationship with our federal partners. Could you start it fairly quickly . We could. Ok. We have plans to put in place because of our great relationship with the federal Highway Administration and others, and so from a surface transportation, we would focus on safety. Thats our number one issue. Were a safety agency. Probably more than were a transportation agency, were a safety agency. We would focus on that. Thank you, senator. We would expand water Distribution Systems and waste water collection systems and build facilities for treatment as well. For instance, we have a project in our home county, Putnam County, West Virginia, we have 56 homes without Potable Water whose folks have to haul their water back to their home cisterns. Our county commissioner have applied for a small cities bloc grant for the last five years for 1. 5 million and for the last five years theyve been turned down. That project is designed it would be ready to go the day the after the funding got if place. Thank you. Thank you, senator. We would probably look at our off system bridge systems. We want to make sure we have safe bridges for school buses, Emergency Services, fire departments. We want to make sure those routes are brought up to standards and yes, we could do that pretty quick. We have engineering on several bridges, we just dont have the funding. We have shovelready projects ready to go. Thank you. Sir. My perspective is different, im not a highway transportation expert. The scenario you present is very dizzying so ill be dizzy. I know. If we did, i think first of all the very first thing we need as a nation is a better informed discussion as to how we invest in a decadal sense. Were doing investments i think in short term very much. I hate to say it, i was an elected official in delaware in a small town, we tend to make decisions in a two, four, six year kind of tameimeframe. We went to decadal planning. Understanding where the populations trends are, where the vulnerabilities are. If we did a better job of that, we would know how to utilize the Funds Available if they were untethered. So i think we need to have a much better information in the decisionmaking process informed by those factors. We lost 32,092 americans on roadways last year. Safety is our number one issue. We have little rally dozens of funding if there was a way to find bipartisan agreement would go a long way to saving american lives. Readye dozens of projects to go. Funding would go a long way toward saving american lives. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator whitehouse . I appreciate very much our guests here from wyoming and West Virginia and oklahoma and colorado, but you all failed to share one of Rhode Islands attributes which is a coastline. You are all landlocked, so id like to address our guest from delaware who like rhode island shares a coastline. In rhode island, we have Sewage Treatment plants that have, as we face rising seas along our shores, moved first into the flood zone and now into the velocity zones for storms. After a major storm, i far too often have to go and talk to a family whos looking at the remnants of their home that has been torn into the sea by the storm activity. We have coastal roads that are at risk of either destruction or flooding. And in many cases, the coastal road is the access to a community which creates very significant Emergency Services risks. And as were mapping more effectively where storm and sea level will be intruding, were finding more and more that the Emergency Services are on the wrong side of the flooding area. I think people remember the scenario in senator bookers state of new jersey where they couldnt bring the Fire Equipment in during sandy because of the flooding and neighborhoods burned with nobody to fight the fire. So, you know, we have those concerns. I have seaside restaurants, places like taras and the ocean mist, two wonderful bars right side by side on the sea that not long ago had 100 feet of beach and people would play volleyball and sun on the beach. And now theyre up on pilings and the ocean washes under their buildings. State beach facilities are similarly compromised and having to be moved backwards as we yield more and more of our coastline to the shore. And, of course, in a really major storm, something equivalent to the hurricane of 1938, which gave delaware a pretty good hit, but really nailed rhode island, the 10 inches of Sea Level Rise weve already seen, the 9 feet of Sea Level Rise that our state and federal experts tell us to expect by the end of the century, plus, two feet if the wind conditions are right in added tide plus we get about two feet in added tide when the moon and the stars all line up so you get an astronomical king tide. We are really planning for some very serious disruptions so i hope my colleagues as we consider what our next Infrastructure Investments should be will understand that in our coasts, we not only get all the other effects of climate change, but we get this rising sea level and then the worsening storm surge that compromises our coastlines and i know delaware let me turn it over to you to comment, because i know delaware has actually i think you have even lower elevation than we do. And a lot of the similar coastal problems. I visited there with senator kuntz to hear from your experts and i know he is aware of Rhode Islands because his dad, who sadly just passed away, was the head of the Rhode Island Fisheries Association for a while. So with that, i leave it to you to talk about coastal infrastructure. Your points are well made and i appreciate the opportunity to address it. We are im from boston area oornlg originally. I know the new england coastline. You have a lot better topography in rhode island than we do in delaware. Were very flat, very much a remnant of a higher cede millions of years ago. That said, one foot of rising sea level can be exponentially hundreds of feet of intrusion in a landward projection. Much better maps inform us where the risks are going to be, where the risks are today and where theyre going to be, we can begin to utilize those and the local communities to begin to plan how we can remove Critical Infrastructure to better places. I think the best indication of sea level in the future, we have a tide two, three, four feet above the predicted, we see where the water goes and certainly map where those intrusion areas are. We have to do a better job. Thats part of the discussion i think were doing here today which is looking at how we manage the coastline so they provide the protection they have provided for a long time. Optimize what we learned in san day. Theres a comp mensrehensive plan developed by the corps of engineers for the northeastern states. If we expand that to the southeast, gulf coast and eventually the west coast, that kind of systems thinking and one of the things i think ties into my colleagues here is we have particularly on the eastern seaboard and more urbanized area, we have a tremendous stress on highways for congestion and also tremendous number of 18wheel tractor trailers on roadways. New jersey has taken a lot of money to separate the highway from the jersey turnpike, truck traffic from pedestrian or automobiles for other use. And i think thats a way its coming to the future, i think were going to have to look at how the waterways of this nation have to be returned as a means by which we get better transportation to goods and services around the coastal area and means Port Management would which produce sediment. Sediment should be utilized for benefit of restoring beaches, restoring wetlands as much as we possibly can. We have institutional blockades we have to take on but im kind of running out of time here. I appreciate it. This isnt a question that requires an answer. One of the things we have discovered in rhode island as we have tried to develop the tools to be able to anticipate what storm surge and rising seas present by way of risks to us, is that the fema mapping of this has been, frankly, outright defective. And that as we look at it, we find that femas unable to replicate when it has to go back and do it again, the results it claims are solid. If you cant go back and replicate a result, its probably not very solid. We see them making premise decisions in their mapping that dont make any sense. We see them operating off of facts that prof bliare not very accurate. The result is that we will find people put into the flood zones that are not going to be flood zones and they have to buy insurance that may not be necessary. Far worse, you find people who are not being told theyre in a flood zone and the discrepancies between what our university and Coastal Resources center are doing and what the fema maps show are really considerable. I hope am some point some of our more coastal folks might join together in taking a hard look at that because a lot of people are going to be really dis disappointed by being let down by defective and erroneous flood mapping. Thank you, senator whitehouse. Senator ernst. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thanks for our panelists for being here today. This really has been a helpful, helpful discussion. And we have a number of members that come from those coastal areas and its a great discussion. What i want to point out in my question, and ill start with you, mr. Mcnulty, is that a federal government onesizefitsall approach certainly doesnt work. I come from iowa. I am land locklocked. I dont have oceanfront property. And let me dig into why i think that there needs to be a little bit of the difference in the federal government. One of iowas top infrastructure priorities is flood mitigation. Weve heard a little bit about flood mitigation here. Our second biggest city in iowa went through two major flood events, 2008 and 2016. And to date, they have not received any Construction Funds despite being authorized in the 2014 bill and again mentioned as a priority in the 2016 bill. A few months ago i had a meeting with the head of the corps and we had a conversation about the process, the corps and the office of management and budget used to budget for flood mitigation projects. I expressed to him that communities like cedar rapids, iowa, and states like iowa will likely never see federal assistance from the corps because they lose out every time to larger states that have higher Property Values and thus higher economic benefit. Im really interested in improving these metrics so our Rural Communities have a fighting chance at tapping into expertise because if the only metric the corps uses to determine the economic benefit of a project is Property Value, then its hard for me to conclude that the corps considers building beaches or not to conclude that the corps considers building beaches in front of multimillion oceanfront homes to be a higher priority than protecting the people that live in iowa. It was also suggested to me in my meeting with the corps that because iowans have a pick yourself up by the bootstraps attitude and we work very well together in our communities to properly mitigate, we move farther down the list of priority and were basically being penalized for being proactive. And so my question for you, mr. Mcnulty, is how can we Work Together to improve our broaden the metrics the corps uses to give our Rural Communities a fighting chance at federal funds . Perhaps my colleague, mr. Pratt, might be able to answer that just a little better than i can when it comes to flood mitigation. Ok. Im willing to listen. Thank you. Certainly im coming from one of those states that has rich valuable Oceanfront Properties and i certainly understand the position youre coming from. I will say this, in my dealings with the corps, from my state of delaware, the oceanfront, there is a lack of funding to do even a lot of the work we have to do. It sounds like we do get a lot of money and it does, as my testimony indicated, theres a tremendous return on that investment. I dont think the corps metrics take into account the full range of benefits in any front of flooding, whether its ocean or gulf coast or whether its river riverenriver riverine or snow pack melting in the sierras this coming spring. I dont think the metrics are there. The full range of benefits. Could be recreational benefits. My understanding of the corps process from delaware, they look at not the personal Property Value but they look at the infrastructure at risk, the density of infrastructure, the utilities, the roads, the waterways, the elect rick lrical Delivery System and what the overall effect is if that fails during a storm. We have, as the senator indicated, we have not only stillwater flooding, we have velocity water. That was certainly the case with sandy. Had we only had stillwater rise rising issues, that would have been one thing in new jersey and new york. Totally different thing web youhen you have waves washing through structures and one structure falls into the next to the next to the next. I think the corps certainly needs a liberalization of its analytics on how the benefits accrue, and inform the discussion. I dont know your states needs, but i certainly think that that is something that nationwide the corps process of deliberation and how they develop the benefit cost ratio. Thats what they predicate their spending absolutely. The higher benefit to cost ratio. If youre at the high tips end of that, youre going to get funding. If youre at the lower tipping rate, youre not going to get any funding. Thats what we have to undercover, what goes into that benefit side . Ive often stated all costs up to the penny of all corps projects are calculated down to the penny. The benefits, potential leave 50 to 80 of them on the table. I think we need better information. I think so. I think the onesizefitsall approach isnt working. Every community is different. If we see all the federal funding to go to areas on the coast, its hard for me to go back home and justify why the safety of people in cedar rapids is not as important as the safety and livelihood of people who live on the coasts. Thank you very much, thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you, very much, senator booker. Thank you very much. I concur with my colleague and friend from iowa, this is a valuable discussion and i really appreciate it. I have really big concerns about our nations Water Infrastructure. Especially as it affects rural areas in america. As well as some other poor areas. Its the kind of thing that a lot of the natural private sector incentives dont often provide. As far as being built out. As a result of that, you see real challenges for families around this country about getting access to clean, safe water. And so ill maybe start with michael mcnulty. You talked in your testimony that we have families in many parts of this country, i believe West Virginia as well as new jersey jersey, that lack the proper facilities. According to the census bureau, when it come to these water facilities, they say 500,000 homes around the country lack access. 500,000 in america. The richest country on planet earth. Lack access to hot and cold Running Water or bathtub or a shower. Or a working flushing toilet. Now that to me is astonishing data. It includes about 11,000 homes in new jersey and portions of rural alabama that are home to lowincome predominantly black communities. Less than half of the population is connected to a muniscipal water system. Many of the families septic systems fail and forced to dump sewage behind their homes which brings up a lot of very Serious Health problems. In addition to tainting the water supply in general and harming the local environment, this is the leading spread of intestinal parasites, such as hook worm. A lot of the parasites are not thought to exist in the United States of america but still exist in a lot of these communities in rural areas. And so, you know, i was a former mayor and these were issues i was dealing with all the time. And it can be difficult, very difficult, for cashscrapped cities, municipalities, rural and urban, of projects based off of only loans, essentially lowinterest debt. Especially in areas that dont have high revenue stream or tax base than can support the kind of work. I believe the answer has to be more grants and grant programs. As you know, currently a state can use no more than 30 of the total about it receives from the Clean Water State Revolving Fund on direct grants. Im wondering just, would you support removing that 30 cap and letting states provide more clean water grants to communities with the demonstrated financial need . Absolutely. Lets remove those restrictions. And what if we were able to remove that restriction, can you just give an idea of what impact it would have for these struggling rural and urban cashstrapped communities . You know, in West Virginia, as many folks know, you know, we have a 500 million deficit in our budget coming up and with the decline in the economy, especially with our coal severance task. So communities are no longer have the funds to contribute toward projects like they once did. By removing that restriction and possibly lengthening the time that the loan could be paid back, communities could do so much more. We wouldnt have to rely on local partner as much where they are cashstrapped. Just had a tremendous benefit across the country. So maybe on that point, because i do know that for me when i was mayor and trying to manage things, even lowers the cost of loans helped us to do a lot of projects, perhaps to you, my last question, maybe bill panos, theres a lot of talk about a trillion dollar infrastructure package right now. My worry is if that is much more about lowinterest loans and not about direct grants. And the thing that i know for those of us who are concerned about debt and deficits, you know, we have to understand that investments in infrastructure create a multipliers effect in economic growth. So i just want to know maybe for the last 20 or so seconds i have, would you just comment on the power of having an infrastructure package that did include direct federal investments, not just loan programs . Is that something you would say is important to have a balance in that infrastructure of direct federal investles . Especially in areas that cant afford even the lowinterest loans that would need some federal resources invested in their communities . Speaking for surface transportation and in rural states, yes, direct investment does help. Especially with states that have, like rural states like wyoming, that have low volumes and dont have the kind of Revenue Generation that other states do. And, so, yes. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you. Senator boozman . Sen. Boozman thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you and the Ranking Member, senator from delaware, from for having this very, very important meeting. We appreciate you all being here. Miss bobbitt, as one of arkansass largest industries, agriculture is crucial to the states economy. Arkansas is home to 44,000 farms generating an economic benefit of 20 billion a year and employing one out of every six arkansans. I believe investing in infrastructure will help create jobs, keep Commodity Prices low and help us remain competitive on the global stage. Can you explain how reliable and efficient infrastructure system helps industries such as the Agricultural Industry remain competitive . Thank you for that question. Excellent question. We like you unless were playing you. Ok. Ok. As your neighbor. Youre right. Yes, if you think of the United States map and consider it a puzzle and each piece of the puzzle is a county and thats 3,069 pieces in that puzzle and it connects and the puzzle, if you take a piece out of that puzzle, its not complete. Right. Well, its the same thing with our roads and our bridges and we all have to connect because while we grow the agriculture products in our states or in our Rural Counties, it has to be delivered to the urban areas so its very important that we all work as a partnership and make sure that we can deliver our foods and our fiber to the urban area. Its not rural versus urban. We are in this together. We are one piece of the puzzle. Right. Right. Thank you. And the second part was going to be whats the repercussions of the fixes and fails strategy that were using now . As you point out, you can have great roads in oklahoma or waterways or whatever, but if you cant get there or get out of there, it really does all go together. Again, that is correct. We dont have blue roads and we dont have red roads. Right. Right. We have roads and bridges. So it is a partnership and it does need to be the same trucks that come down the interstates and the highways get off on our county roads. So and weve got to get our food and fiber off the rural area and into the counties or into the urban areas. Right. Especially as you look to what the future is telling us that americas going to have to do as far as feeding the world. You know, 20 years, 25 years as we go forward. Mr. Mcnulty, according to a recent Michigan State report, water prices across the country have risen by about 41 since 2010. Which really is an amazing statistic. If this particular trend continues, 45. 6 of american households will not be able to afford Water Services within the next five years. In your professional opinion, what kind of an effect will rising water prices have on a rural state such as arkansas . It will be hard. It will be hard for the citizens because theyll begin to cut back their use of Potable Water. But that will not change the debt. I think it will be a very hard time. So i guess, tell me about in the next infrastructure bill, you know, that we do, do you feel like its important to address affordability . Absolutely. Affordability has to be one of the primary factors when considering when you are funding a project in this country. What can people afford . You know, we talk about, you know, folks that already have Potable Water and sanitation. Then the folks who do not have any at all. No access. And so, you know, those folks arty. Ically going to be in Rural America much lower income. So were in a catch 22 situation as you mentioned. Again, the epa sometimes rightfully so, sometimes very, very aggressively trying to get the last little bit out thats so expensive as far as our point sources and things. That raises rates, you know, as you make it such that you remedy that. But then as you point out, youre in a situation where people actually dont use as much water and so then that raises rates further. It certainly can. Very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator boozman. Senator cardin. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank all our witnesses. To me, this is one of the most important subjects we have to deal with is an area where we can get democrats and republicans working with this administration to get things done. Senator carper pointed out in his opening comments, were not proud of the fact that we get a d on infrastructure. When you go to any other country just about, certainly in the industrial world, and see the way that day deal with transportation versus the way we do, we need to invest more. I think the numbers 1. 7 billion, 1. 6 billion the American Society of Civil Engineers say we need in regards to our surface transportation. Mr. Chairman, i just really want to underscore the point you made in your Opening Statement about rural areas versus urban areas. In maryland, i can tell you the appalachian highway system now which has been rolled into the overall surface transportation programs, its absolutely vital for job creation in western maryland. The north south highway which is important for is important from West Virginia is critical and it doesnt come without a cost. There is an initial cost but you get it back by economic growth. So yes. I81 which is important for the Washington County part. It is a vital link in which we were trying to. But we need more money. I think he would agree with me that a lot of people want to get to our beaches. Theres a real issue of safety in getting through the Eastern Shore of maryland and virginia and delaware. So we do need and they are expensive. We need to do it. In the urban areas we have our challenges. I live in one of the most congested corridors in the country, one of the most congested in the world. We need to invest in ways to deal with this. I want to get him down here easier. We can make it a little faster for him if we had modern high speed rail. It was interesting to have my staff go back. Senator advocated as a member of the committee in the 1990s. Now, he has been here for a long time. Japans system that carries many thousands of passengers of world record speeds and japan is now in another 300 between tokyo to carry 100,000 passengers. I mention that because thats and their country is doing we are still stuck in technology that is really kind of old. We do need the capacity to modernize our infrastructure system. I know that Prime Minister abe will be here this weekend. He will talk to President Trump about partnerships that could be done to help our northeast corridor corridor. There are real opportunities here. Let me take my remaining time to go over the water issues. Tor bozeman. Senao affordability is a key issue. Our Water Infrastructure is about 655 billion over the next 20 years in order to modernize our wastewater. We had 240,000 water main breaks a year costing literally billions of dollars in waste. A more efficient system will help everybody. But if you are talking about you needlity, then support, public support to deal with Water Infrastructure infrastructure. If you look for Public Private partnerships partnerships. So we really need a stronger commitment so that we can modernize our Water Infrastructure without accessive make it more efficient without excessive burden on the rate payers who cant afford it. I would like to get your experiences that you have seen. Of course im coming at this from a perspective of a Natural Resource manager. It is within the realm of my spear sphere of exposure is. We are not aware of the ignorance we have put ourselves in. And that is at the federal and state level. We have ignored problems we have known about for a long time whether its a costal hazard. We have exposure to a number of risks, certainly water supply, water, Transportation Systems. I dont think we informed the public well enough. The impairtive is not out there to get a Public Movement behind that investment. I think we have to tell the story better. My reaction is basically we need to be very gut honest about how impoverished we have been in maintaining our systems and how much more work we have to do populationincreasing with demands on limited resources. Thank you for that answer. Ill point out this committee on doing what we need to do. How we deal with wastewater is very much critical factor in how we deal with chesapeake bay. It is very much part of this overall strategy. I thank you for this answer. Thank you for that. Sanders. Sanders thank you very much. Thank you for holding this really important meeting in an increasingly political environment environment. I would hope there could be a coming together to address what almost everybody understands as a national crisis. Thank you for holding the hearing. I look forward to working with you. Let me just talk about vermont for a second. Vermonts roads need an additional investment of 700 million a year to get into a state of good repair. The only reason vermont is now in 28th place in the nation is because we had to rebuild after hurricane irene which knocked out a lot of our bridges and roads. I hope we would go forward not a result of disasters but being proactive. We are the richest country in the history of the world. We used to lead the world. That is no longer the case and we are behind many other countries. Too many accidents are because of infrastructure. The result of that is loss of economic potential. So when we talk about rebuilding our crumbling roads systems, its not only the water in flint michigan. We have failing Water Systems all over this country. We used to lead the world in terms of our rail. Today we are behind japan, behind china and many other countries. Mr. Chairman, i think there is bipartisan agreement we have not invested in our infrastructure. I think there is bipartisan understanding that when we invest we create jobs. A couple of years ago i brought forth legislation called the rebuild america act. I proposed a trillion dollar investment. To that point it was bought by republicans and democrats to be a wild and crazy idea. Im glad i think there is an understanding that given the depth of the problem, given what the American Society of Civil Engineers tell us in terms of a need to invest 1. 6 trillion is in fact a reasonable amount of money. And when we do this not only do we create a nation that is more productive and safer we also create up to 15 million jobs and jobs in areas where we need them. One of the areas certainly in Rural America has to do with broad band. I want to put in a plug as part of our infrastructure, youre not going to attract businesses. Kids are not going to be able to do well in school unless we have access to high quality broad band. So this is a proposal that makes sense in many levels. Where the difference of opinion is going to come, i think, which is outside of the jurisdiction of this committee is how we fund a trillion dollars. I am not sympatheticic to giving huge tax breaks to the large multinational corporations. That is not the way we should be going in my view. I think Interest Rates are very low now. I think it is appropriate that in a nation which is spending 650 billion on the military, yes, over a ten year period we can invest a trillion in rebuilding infrastructure that will pay for itself. I would like to ask one and i apologize for not hearing any oy of your comments but if somebody could talk about the needs of Rural America. Wyoming is different from vermont but we are both rural. Where would wow like to see it going . I can speak for Service Transportation in wyoming and say that any proposal that brings forward something that we can take advantage of as a rural state is a positive thing. Other kinds of borrowing doesnt work in wyoming, doesnt work in rural states because we simply do not have the skren ration to support that kind of thing. Any proposals that move forward are helpful. The second thing i would say is the existing formula system, the formula system for delivering those dollars to rural states works and yes, there could be improvements in project delivery. There could be improvements in having flexibility for states. But those systems to work. So enhancing moneys to those existing Delivery Systems would be very positive for rural states like wyoming. Thank you. Let me ask you this. In vermont with a few exceptions, we are expanding it a little bit, if you live in a more rural area and you want to get to work in a more urban area. I used those in quotes because our largest city is 1000 people. The only way to do it is by an automobile. I think we need to build up a rural bus system as well. Do you have problems with that in wyoming . Can people get to work in other ways than through an automobile . Through our federal funding programs we have a Transit Program for the department of transportation that connects us to State Government with our local governments to provide senior transportations. But if im a worker in an workwho wants to get to other than by automobile, in vermont it is hard to do. Is that the case in wyoming . It is hard but not impossible. We have private sector agreements with some of our Largest Energy producers that also have transportation for their workers so we have some of that in wyoming as well but it is different than some of the other states that are not like vermont and wyoming, different from new york and other places. We are going to go to a second round with a couple of questions from colorado and wyoming stedman wyoming standpoint. Investment and highways before getting elected it is critical we show the American People with any actions that congress could take to make the projects less costly im sure the current spending that you have to deal with to get more bang for your buck. There are unnecessary burdens and expenses you have to deal with. I dont know if you would like to start . Thank you, senator. Thank you for your career work. In this transportation field. What can the State Governments do . What can locals do . What can we do better . Maybe it would be useful to have a costbenefit analysis done by, from aw, congress, nonpartisan viewpoint, to say what are the costs imposed by some of these regulations or some of these processes and what are the benefits . I think that some people view costs and benefits very differently. It would be useful to understand where there are benefits and where there are actual costs slowing down the system. Everybody says, ok, it was bipartisan so we might implement it. I would say reduced Program Delivery would be helpful for us. Ill give you an example. We have a project in the northern part of our town of her sheraton. It is called the interchange project. It is about two years to complete. This is a safety project for commercial traffic moving through our state. Anything we can do, thats a good thing. Improving states flexibility and improving our flexibility in the use of some of our infrastructure. Let me give you an example. The senator talked about broad band. We are engaged in a broad band Infrastructure Project. We use our rightsofway along the sides of our highways to run our broadband lines. That this single that single distinction improve the flexibility and allowed us to do more things with the existing infrastructure than the federal government is funding in our state. And the final question follows up with what standers was talking about. Can you talk about how federal investment and transportation projects also can benefit urban states . Yes. There are a couple of things. One is sort of the National Connectivity project. Truck traffic through wyoming starts in the west coast and goes to chicago or the east coast cities. This is a national benefit. The idea that we invest in those interstate highways will help commerce at both ends of the trip. The other is, as we stated in my written testimony, these highways and rural states bring products to market. They bring Agricultural Products they bring forest products, Energy Products to markets they need to go to. There is a strong benefit to urban areas by investing in rural states. Finally, as i stated in my Opening Statement and my written testimony, i mentioned tourism. These roads bring millions of visitors to Yellow Stone National park every year. These are dollars that are spent in america and not in europe or canada or some other place. The reason is they can get there and they can get home safely. The only way they can get there, as the senator pointed out, is a highway, by car. Investing in rural states helps the urban areas and the nation in those respects. Thank you. Senator carper . Thank you very much. I had a special interest in that question and i thank you. Scratch that one off of my list. We have history in this country of a user pay approach, those who use roads, highways, bridges pay for them, is that an approach we should generally stick with or move to Something Else . In wyoming, very brief. Of registration and drivers license fees and what you referred to earlier, the tax. All of that adds up to about 30 . Other 50 comes from the federal government and the other 20 comes from a variety of different sources. I asked is the idea of user fee, is that something we have done forever . Is that something we should move away from . To do allrow money this. We repatriate money from overseas for national corporations. Should we stick with the user fee . Apologize for answering with a mix. Yes. Moving towards users fees is helpful. Thank you. I know you are water but any thoughts on user pays . Realizing some places it is hardship in poor communities. Senator, we are certainly doing that now through rates. Thats the approach we have across the country, you know, thats not just 100 grant funded in many cases. Even if it is, you have user rates to pay for any. Thank you, senator. Yes, we definite support user fees. In oklahoma we had gas taxes as we do on the federal end and our wisdom in the dirty 30s they robbed our transportation funds and used it for other things and user fees people are always willing to support user fees. I know its not really in your ally but any comments before we go . We have one thing, if we could. Very briefly. This trust fund is a good example of what it would be used for. That would be Something Else to keep in mind. Thank you. Yes on user fees. I would say users are already paying higher taxes in an unintelligent fashion. They are sitting in congestion and paying more for goods. And repairs to the vehicles. Another followup for you, mr. Secretary black. Colorado, one of the Fastest Growing states in the country in terms of population. Im told your population is expected to increase by nearly half in the next 20 years. Much is anticipated to be in the greater denver area but also the urban centers. What challenges do growing urban areas face in colorado and other areas . How do you plan to ensure mobility for a Larger Population there . Thank you, senator carper. We have an infrastructure that was designed in the 50s and built in the 60s for a population of 3 Million People in colorado. We are getting to 8 Million People in the next 20 years and i cant find my way out of congestion in denver. What do you think, contraception . Possibly. It had better be a unique use of it. Plans for transportation is where we need to go. But i just believe that mobility whether it is in a car or in ,idesharing or transit multimodal, i cant widen i25 for the environmental clearance, so it is not just about widening ways in our urban areas but in our rural areas. It is not onesizefitsall. Time is expired. Great hearing. Thank you all so much. Thank you so much. Thank you mr. Chairman. There are some people who think that we are looking at a looming water crisis in this country. In terms of being able to deliver clean water to the people of america. Are they right in their concerns . Can somebody comment on the situation of making sure we get clean water to people in this country . Bailey, but if you look at Water Resources across the country there is a question today, using problems around the nation and in other locations, and we are seeing infrastructure in the water Delivery System as well. It is polluting our carbon emissions. The simple answer is yes, we do have a looming problem. Its something we need to inform the public as to what the risks are. I have heard it referred to as patching holes with tate as best we can but we need to do a lot better and it should be a part of this discussion. Further discussion on water, anyone want to comment on it . I was saying in Colorado Water is everything. Where it comes from, how it gets dispersed. While i do transportation for a living i think a lot of our growth that we talked about, if theres not clean water in the rest of the country then why are we doing any of this . Right. Next question is rail. When we look at infrastructure is it appropriate to look at rebuilding an ageing rail system which now in many ways lags behind other major countries around the world . Am i right or wrong on that . Serving in my current role i was secretary of transportation in delaware and on the northeast corridor commission. I think it is ridiculous that in the u. S. We dont have the rail as an option in urban areas where we had the that is similar to that in other urban networks. The efficiency there, there is transit oriented developments coming out of that, we have had a lot of car culture that needs to be addressed, there are some that could benefit through new technologies like maglev or hyper loop that are lagging. In terms of climate change, keeping trucks off the road and investing in cargo moving through rail would be a help. Commercialse best ive ever seen was one of the freight commercials that says we move a ton of freight with a gallon of diesel. I am forgetting that. From d. C. To boston, one gallon of diesel fuel. Yes, from a Climate Impact statement, it just makes less. And we talk a lot about passenger and both cars, people around with freight is an incredibly important part of that that helps solve those problems. I have worked on the regional Management Plan for the delaware bay and estuary and in that capacity worked with colleagues and he and i had a private conversation. He talked about new jersey being a congested state and the highway system is already obsolete. It is best to stay ahead of it in the urbanized corridors. We have to go back to relying upon a trimodal Transportation Service which includes rail, waterway and roads. If we dont embrace that oer all the options, the previous secretary of transportation talked about it, we have a lot of chicken going out with empty cars coming back. We could utilize these cars and better on rail tracks. Somebody believes we should move aggressively towards solar and sustainable energies. Do we have an electric grid capable of supporting the movement to Sustainable Energy . Does anyone want to comment on the state of our electric grid . Thoughts on that . All right, mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I would mention bill gates has a reading list and one of the books he recommends is the grid. He has met in the past with members i thought he was going to say he was going to read my book. [laughter] i didnt see your book on his list. There was one called string theory but i dont think that was yours. Would you like to plug the book right now . [laughter] with that, there are no further questions. Members may submit followup lessons for the record. The hearing will be open and two weeks. I would like to thank you for being here. Your testimony was helpful. Hearing is adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] Federal Reserve chair janet yellen on her semiannual economic report to congress today. She is before the Senate BankingCommittee Live at 10 00 a. M. Eastern and you can see it on cspan3 and cspan. Org or listen live on the free cspan radio. Pp andy testifies at his confirmation hearing thursday live at cspan3 and cspan. Org or listen live on the cspan radio app. President trump and canadian Prime Minister trudeau launched the Canada Council for u. S. Women entrepreneurs and business leaders. He met with female executives at the white house on monday. Hello, everybody, please sit down