Series of these interfaith lecture series here in the hall of philosophy. Im especially pleased that diane winston, who holds the night chair in media and religion at the school, is here with us. I dont know how many of you know about journalism education, but to hold a night chair, that is like the nobel prize in journalism education, so we are glad diane is here. I will talk more about her in just a moment in her topic, but i will spend just a moment, as i traditionally do, setting up this discussion series and how it fits into the rest of the programming we are having this week. An underlying theme we have been having, a background presence for all the discussions in the amphitheater, here in the hall of philosophy, and Panel Discussions, has been how the News Business and Civic Society can do its part, the News Business do as part, to give us the information and values and perspective we need as a Democratic Society to find our way. I was picking about this morning during nancy gives interesting conversation. I assume many of you were there to hear that as well. Quizoing to have a brief based on this discussion. This will be the audience participation. You live streamers can wager hands at home. They are talking about the difficulty of having accurate information, across and holding his weight against vague information, which has been a very important theme of our discussions this week. This comes into the news with confederate statues, which obviously are the center of controversy now. I probably wont ask for a show of hands. I will do an imaginary show of hands of when we think the confederate statues mainly went up. The 1850s as the civil war was drawing near . The 1860s . 1870s to 1880s or reconstruction . As you probably all, the two main periods of their construction were 1910 through 1920, the same period that the klan was getting going, and in the who here has driven to the National Airport of d. C. Along Jefferson Davis highway . It got that name in 1922. All of the northsouth avenues in alexandria are named by law for Confederate Military leaders. When did the law come into effect requiring that . 1963. Anything else going on in a 1963 that may have this is a way in which we think about confederate statues as part of the heritage of the country, but they were actually part of an invented history of certain times of national and southern life. Of certain times of national and southern life. So this is by way of context saying, that all of the platforms in chautauqua this week, and all of the discussions at 2 00 this afternoon have been about the ways in which our institutional life, governing institutions in Civic Society, individuals and their ethics and religion, and religious organizations, and the media, come together to restore the elements of civic life that democracies depend on, to continue. Those elements included tolerance, which is under strain now, the willingness to compromise, also under strain, and the sheer real at reality base in what is going on. If all those three things are eroded, we are in trouble. Explored in various ways at the amphitheater, and we heard it on the stage as well. And now, diane winston. Dont know any idea what her speech will be about, but i predict that you will find it very interesting, stimulating and concerted act argument about how we got to this point in our history, what it means and what you can do about it. Miss winston is expertly prepared to have this discussion, she has been a practitioner, a scholar and she is now preparing our next generation of people to be practitioners and scholars. She was a working newspaper reporter, she worked with the rally news observer, the maryland son and she has worked with many newspapers. Sheet now regularly contributes desk she now regularly contributes to many newspapers and magazines and she has a phd in religion from prince dunn, a masters from from princeton, other schools. Her focus at usc has been the focus on religion and politics ,nd culture and news media their intersection at the local and international levels. Teaching courses such as hollywood, faith and the media which she is well poised to do. Diane, iay more about will simply say that as our discussion has evolved on the way that news organizations, governmental culture, Popular Culture and all the rest can either defend us or not defend us against the challenges of this era, i think diane has a really good perspective about where we may go from here. Please join me in welcoming diane winston. [applause] can everyone hear me . Thank you jim, thank you maureen, thank you phil and maggie, thank you dr. Franklin and thank you all for coming out today. This is a dream come true for me, when i began researching my first book on the salvation army, i learned that the early leaders of the army who were incidentally women, would come to chautauqua to talk about faithbased social service delivery. From reading their remarks, i have the feeling that this was the place to go when you wanted to have a might and about how to better the world. So, to be here today among you and have a chance to talk about issues that are so important, is just as i said, a dream come true. And it is so much of a dream that i wouldnt to tell you all my new best friends, that today is my 26th anniversary, and i am here today, with my husband was an ally, [laughter] he was fully supportive because he knows how much this means to me, so if you see me later, give me a pat on the back or a hug. After 26 years, let me know that i did not do the wrong thing [applause] winston a minister and politician wind up in front of the pearly gates and st. Peters can sides to show them their new decks. Based their new habitat. St. Peter turns to the minister and says, this my son, is for you. Thank you, thank you set st. Peter. The politician begins to get nervous because of the man of god got the humble abode. So what was in store for him . They keep walking, they come across a beautiful green expanse and in the distance are rolling hills, flowers, a beautiful mansion. Get closer, st. Peter turns to the politician and says, this my son, is for you. Well, the politician is gob smacked, how did i get this . Peter, i amto st. Not sure i understand, why did the holy man of god get a shack and i am getting all this . Peter says, you have to understand how things work here. We have lots of ministers. But you are the first politician weve ever seen [applause] [laughter] that actually is Ronald Reagans joke [laughter] thes apt today because challenges we face, specifically around journalism, ethics and democracy all have roots in the reagan administration. Students, you cannot understand the present without understanding the past. So i want to go back to the future for a moment. But before i do, some words of introduction. My talk will address three points, one is the religious disposition of our country, 2 the crisis facing the news the ethical, challenges facing not just journalists but all citizens. To be clear, i speak as someone who believes we leave and a we live in a dangerous time. The behavior and policies of our Current Administration in my opinion threaten not only the health and welfare of all americans, but also the future of our civil society, our democracy and the safety of our world. So [applause] i should not smile, that is not a smiling moment. So back to Ronald Reagan. 1980,eagan was elected in Americas International prestige was at a low point. Domestically, inflation was on the rise and a Many Americans are out of work. Adding insult to injury, calls for justice and equality from womens groups, people of color, and gays and lesbians threatened longstanding assumptions of cultural authority. Many whites, especially white men, felt attacked and marginalized. Throughout this talk, i will give you headlines. We can come back to any point during the q a if you want me to follow up on something. Appealed to disaffected white voters by promising to make America Great again. Those of you of a certain age can remember that, those of you who are not quite old, ps, trump did not make that one up. Reagan promised jobs, a strong military, strong support for policies to end abortion, and return prayer to the nations public schools. Embracing Richard Nixon check out southern strategy, he warned southern democrats, kicking off the 1980 president ial campaign in philadelphia, mississippi. The site where just 16 years earlier, three civil rights workers were slain by the ku klux klan. Reagan also thought that evangelical vote, appearing at a convention of religious leaders, he said, you cannot endorse me, but i endorse you. Reagan seemed like a strange choice for conservative christians, he was a former actor and a longtime angela know. No, he had also been a democrat and divorced. That she belongs to a conservative Christian Church and claims to have had a bargain bornagain experience. He was the oldest man to run for president and he did not mean like a typical evangelical standardbearer, but as president he inculcated a religious sensibility that fundamentally changed our national agenda. Which brings me back to my studying dust my starting joke. In march,d that joke 1983 to the National Association of evangelicals. It was the opening to what has become known as the evil empire speech. The role ofaffirmed religion and American Life and its consequent obligations. There is sin and evil in the world and we are enjoined by scripture and lord jesus will pose it to oppose it with all of our might. That was reagan. Meant not only opposing abortion and is achieving School Prayer but it also meant defeating americas greatest enemy, the soviet union. Let us pray for the civilization of all those who live in that totalitarian darkness, for he that they will discover the joy of knowing god, but until they do, let us be aware that while they preach, the supremacy of the state, declare its omnipotence over and predict the eventual domination of all peoples on earth, they are the focus of evil in the modern world. In the days following, his polar dust political framing of good and evil would be repeated over and over again in the secular and christian media. His framing became normalized. I want to get back to the issue of framing and the question and answer time, because i think that we have to understand how crucial media is in framing the way that we think about issues and the way we look at the world. Speech, was key to a worldview that affirmed the rightness of faith, the wrongness of communism, and the importance of free market and limited government. Reagan believed the u. S. Was exceptional because it is gods chosen nation. A place where freedom is divinely ordained, that freedom he believed, should be manifest in the Political Freedom of democracy, the spiritual freedom of religious liberty and the Economic Freedom of free markets and limited government. Even when reagan did not specifically mention religion or speeches, heis described religious virtues, such as personal responsibility and love of country that informed his initiative on tax cuts, ending in title, and investing ending entitlements and investing in eight different initiative. Historiansrds, debate whether he was really religious or whether it was a hose, i am saying here and now to you, it was he was a deeply religious man, he may not have looked like any kind of christianity that you or i are familiar with but he felt deeply deeplyus he carried religious convictions and they informed many of his policies. He helped create a new religious , aginary, which i mean collective national sense of what matters, and why. Which provides meaning, identity and purpose for the nation and its citizens. Know,know this is my you Big University type graph here. I will repeat, reagan helped create a new religious imaginary. By religious imaginary i mean a collective National Lands of what matters and why, and which provides meaning, identity and purpose for the nation and its citizens. In other words a religious imaginary is not something you are conscious off, that you discuss over the breakfast table on your anniversary with your husband,. Infusess something that the choices you make about what you do with your life, how you feel about your country, what you decide as far as your job, your relationships, it is a worldview. Reagan helped shift the american fdr tous imaginary from lbj, they had affirmed a welfare state, and that religious imaginary, promoted an ethic of the common good, both nationally and globally. The new one emphasized personal responsibility, you know that unilateralism and faithbased public sphere. I hope everyone is with me. Time, and equally momentous shift was occurring in the news media as chains and corporations amassed monopolies. The government has blocked media monopolies with regulatory policies that promoted numerous points of view and competition. But reagans freemarket approach and at that. Of newspapers were familyowned. That89, 45 years later, number had shrunk to 20 . Same time, and the early 1980s, usa today and cnn were turning content and delivery norms upside down just as social media would do, 30 years later. Designed for television viewers, usa today was right and accessible, its stories were short, its graphics were colorful and its news content was skewed to infotainment. Cnn made news immediate and global. It was the first glimpse of the 24 7 connected world. Even then, in the early 1980s, many media leaders realized that computers were just around the corner. Nobody knew exactly what the impact of the technology would be, but everybody knew it was going to change things. So before i move on, let me recap. Ronald reagan helps to initiate a fundamental change in the religious and ethical sensibility of the united eights. So we are all in this together, that ethos had characterized the welfare state, the world war ii effort, the new frontier and lbjs great society, it was replaced by an individualist ethos. According to this ethos, every person, to fulfill their godgiven autonomy should be free of constraint. Specifically an overbearing, federal government and unfair market regulation. Self, let us fast forward 35 years. Reagan evolution shifted how Many Americans, how many of us think about wealth and social responsibility. Issues that the 40th president hopes to address, remain unchanged. Unsure ofrs are still finding steady remunerative fulltime employment. Our nation has raised an International War on terror has waged an International War nn terror and has not one wo many friends. Corporations, six corporations own much of the American News media. And the digital revolution has meanwhile transformed the economy. Networks, and daily newspapers no longer set our national agenda, instead, many of us find issues that reinforce our opinion. Throat growing polarization has split up into two nations. Just last week, as feed News Analysis reported that more than for news,rtisan sites launched in 2016 and more than 180 new partisan news right news sites launched in 2016. Part of an alternate universe of some 700 artisan website, and partisan websites and almost 500 partisan facebook pages. According to buzz feed the candidate see and election of donald trump has unleashed a golden age of aggressive, divisive, political content that reaches a massive amount of people, and i would like to add as bus fit buzz feed did as well, it is making a few people very, very rich. Sometatements produced by of these websites is a big problem. Remember its a date p izzagate . Real, fake news. But then there is also fake, fake news. You know that double negatives are positive right . President trumps label for news that he does not like or he does , thises i agree with conflation of real fake news and fake fake news, has made covering the trump residency akin to a trip behind a looking glass. Especially since the president himself, who i would argue is a product of this media age, since seems to insist on confusing and conflating fake, fake news and real, real news real fake abuse real fake news. With the readmission that , money, politics and religion have all changed the ways that we find and interpret information. Hand we need to address media ethics, the professional standards that make for exemplary journalism. But those standards are derived from deeper ethical commitments arrive from deeper ethical commitments that we share as a society. The reagan era shift and ourgious it also shifted ethical commitments and our current concerns about journalism reflect that dilemma. That reagan era religious imaginary vaunted freedoms. It also trusted that god would materially reward his followers. Man, made in the image of god must be free. And free men thanks to gods blessing, or rich, powerful and successful. It is sort of a great feedback loop. Is it any wonder that potus feels, the president of the shields a loosely aligned network of rightwing christian Prayer Warriors will leave that god anointed donald trump to save america . And they pray daily that he does so . Or that millions of americans have no problem with staggering income inequality, xenophobia, the Prison Industrial Complex and a definition of religious liberty that would deny civil rights based on sexual preference . Or that a Washington Post poll tristans, found especially white evangelicals are much more likely than nonchristians to view poverty as the result of individual failings . Donald trump is only the embodiment of our current predicament. He lives and dies by the partisan media and is responsible only to himself, he feels free to break all codes a soap of socially responsible behavior, and he would likely not disagree with those who say that his success, b speaks his blessedness. Bespeaks his blessedness. He is a product of the reagan era imaginary taken to one extreme conclusion and this nation, those who have accepted passively if not wholeheartedly this ethos of freedom of exceptionalism, and individualism, there is some responsibility for our culture in which trump could be elected president. [applause] so, this is where we find ourselves today to read on my 22nd 27 , August August 17, 2017. The free market is a dominant good, god helps those who help themselves. Have any quick fixes for journalism or for our country, we did not get into this situation overnight, nor will we change it by tomorrow. The only way it may change is if we, as citizens, news consumers, neighbors, family, and journalists, and that is what makes things look so exciting, decide what makes a good society and how we go from here to there. Listening mores closely to politicians, maybe it means creating a podcast, starting a Reading Group, curating a facebook page, volunteering with groups working for change. Example, a little more than a year ago, i started working for market lace, the public radio show on business and the economy. Economic issues and marginalized communities. After reading president trumps executive order, while this began thinking about what it meant to report fairly in a postfact environment. He posted his reflections on a being al blog, journalist who has told the truth in key historical moments, most of them have been up sidelined most of them have been sidelined. Right now there is a Government Fact frameworkt and i would argue that any journalist infected invested in for best factual reporting can no longer remain. We should admit that it is impossible for you. Wallace had hoped that it would spark conversation among fellow journalists on the important on the state importance of reporting factually and not taking sides. Instead, it got him fired. Wallace is a transgender person and arguing that being marginalized in a hostile environment, it would be impossible to remain neutral. Before you dismiss this as an extreme case, consider reporters who are women, people of color, muslims, mexicans, jews or just not trump supporters. Candidate or should they be neutral . Very interesting times, i never imagined i would eat National Newspapers call out the president as a liar. It just was not something in my journalism career that one would ever think to do. I never imagined that the stories i covered in the 1980s, about the rise of the religious the upheavals in the Southern Baptist convention, threats against abortion clinics and tell them evangelists televangelists warning about gods wrath. Those stories were about all that and so much more. They were really about the supersession of an ethical standard that honored truth, community and the dignity of all lives. Is it too much to hope, that we can rise to todays challenges and provide our children with better journalism . A revitalized democracy and a shift in a National Religious ethos . I have a daughter just starting college, and i hope that we can. Thank you [applause] thank you. [applause] i will come over here and you can sit on this tool. This is the test of all it should talk what you get the microphone over there . See, you passed the phd comes in handy so thank you very much, for that very well structured clear and provocative speech. In addition to your other credentials, i wonder if you have experience in the speech writing business . In the speech writing business you are told always to tell people what you will tell them, tell them and what you told them, as she just did, so congratulations. I am glad to hear that. I hand for diane [applause] of your speeche in which a completely agree, the structural changes in the news media, the shift from the disappearance of family newspapers, what you said about neutrality,grail of also being a theme of this weeks entire discussion. One speaker on monday morning talked about how reporters, what they aspire to is not neutrality but being fair and honest about where they come from. What yougree with said, with so much of it, i said let me concentrate on where i might see things differently. While we drink champagne my wife had anniversary had an anniversary recently. So we will definitely during champagne. Since Ronald Reagan, things have changed and when we look back to history, from the Great Depression onward, that is the era of collective national shock, selective National Effort in world war ii and the rebuilding afterward. The elements you talk about as reagans imaginary, they have a president. Weve always had religion and brown,s, with john earlier on, the ethic of the selfmade portion, we had the social darwinists, ben franklin and all that. The idea of american exceptionalism has been there from the very start. And his imaginary, d. C. It to be a change from the fdr to lbj. Or dusty do you see it to be a change from the fdr to lbj period . And i talk like this, one cannot, i think that in order function theys to have to believe in something beyond the material. About the interesting american experiment is that we were the first country that had the permission of church and date so we did not have a divine sanction. Church and state. We have always had one kind of religious imaginary or another and to me it has a tension between this and towards religion is a, individualism and the band toured collectivism. Ere communal it is not something new, it has always been flipping and flopping between the two. It is just the most recent iteration. Does it make you think that this is something that could be waited out as past waves have been waited out . Are there lessons you take from your past experience dealing with excesses of this, what does history tell you about the way to deal with this wave . Historians like journalists tend to want to tell a story, and so to do that you have to cut out a lot of the complexity. I dont knowif on what day it was, written roosevelt was elected in 1932 . I think he wasnt inaugurated until march or april because they delayed it then. So it is not as if on that day in 1933 everything changed. For the righteeds turn that we have taken, were being sewed as early as the 1920s. The conservative turn which has been documented in a lot of new history books, showed that groups of businessmen and clergymen were really busy trying to promote these ideas of free market, limited government from the 1920s on. So even at the height of the roosevelt era, there were other ideas taking shape. So nothing is completely one way or the other, it is going to the time to move from predominant ethers that we have now, but i think it is a matter the predominant ethos, but i think it is a matter of being of people wanting to change. I thought that obama could have been a step in this direction perhaps hes that would be, but you needed at different levels. You need a president and a leader who can enunciate the vision, people on the ground meeting in churches, synagogues and mosques, talking about making things different. You need people organizing, to take over local governments as the religious right did in the 18 the 1980s and the 1990s. It will not change overnight. There are people who do not believe in the current ethers and what we have to do the current ethos, and the way to do it is it is beginning to take a more activist turn to making things happen. Ask you about something that is not directly in your speech, but it is parallel to what we were discussing earlier before we came over. It 1981 Ronald Reagan won the election, the u. S. Was at a low and. As aember a low ebb member of the administration that printed the carter administration, he was the first president ever to have resigned from office, it was succeeding the end of the them the vietnam war, during the time of the first ever oil shock and when there was economic this location at a time that makes today actually seem mild by comparison. The mildness by comparison is actually my point. Thee of you who were in amphitheater this morning, heard the speaker say that he was impressed by the conjunction of a very pessimistic national news. We are seeing it as it positive developments in many places. I think i have given you in the past couple of days my version of the perspective as well, which is that National Politics are in a very bad situation now, and there is a National Narrative that makes people think that things are bad. Any place they did not know about directly via fuel it is pretty bad as well. But my experience with that, going to mississippi, california, south dakota, south carolina, is that while there are problems everywhere, in most parts of the country, people feel as if the direction of the movement is positive rather than negative. Not every place, not on all issues is open your day disaster, appalachia has unique problems but generally our problems is that people feel that at the local and regional level they are getting traction. And they are better off than they were a couple of years ago. , to set us up, at the Republican Convention last year, there was a story at the and of the convention and the headline was gop delegates believe the economy is terrible thept where they are from. Sense that it must be terrible everywhere alls. Everywhere else. You are saying that there is a more pessimistic side of that divide, tell me how you think media are affecting the view, positive or negative, the challenge of being aware of where there are problems, without being excessively pessimistic. Had you think about the pessimism optimism balance . Well, what i really dislike about most media, is its focus on. The. Negative and the negative focus on the negative. If it is bad news, it is the headline. There is that experiment where in the early 20th century, someone tried to do the good news newspaper, it was a big hit for a few weeks then it nobody wanted to read it, there were all board. Ored. I all board b think that most mainstream news media do not take seriously the need to report fully, which also means reporting on good news, that things are getting better. So to some extent, i believe the media, you and david might be lifting this up, which is why i cited you as someone working for change in a good way. Thank you for that but it is rare for that to happen, and i know that my students who have gone into Mainstream Media tell me that is very hard to be allowed to do a story that says something that is not that negative. Something positive. It is not something that newspapers or Television News media once these days. I think that is part of thinking about what we want as news consumers, and you know, maybe these days we can click on things to get the message across, that we want to hear more about the positive changes taking place. Is it is not pollyanna, what going on in the communities you are visiting, it is not all sunshine and roses, people are working very hard to agree to grade change and struggling against uphill odds. I think the story is not being told. I agree, and i think there is also a challenge, a sense of risk in telling a story that is some way positive, because you feel like you are you feel like you are worried about being embarrassed. If something goes wrong, you will look like a sucker but if you publish something bad and it gets that are, you do not face the same embarrassment. What advice would you give to members of this audience and people listening about buying if they buy your diagnosis and your prescription as well about how media should work. Youve talked about what the news can consumer should do. What specifically should people in this audience, hearing your prescription on what is going on, what can they do to help the news be better, to help their local communities be better. Ok,ou were forced to say you are great with my assessment of what is wrong here, and therefore i can do the following three things, what would they be . That is such a great question. It is like i could be god for a day [applause] the easiest thing of all, is to find news that you think is the right kind of news or the good kind of news or inspirational kind of news and click on it i get the Austin Mission the Washington Post optimist email news. It is there good if you click on those stories and read them, if you read your local newspaper, let your editor know that you like certain kinds of stories, go in and talk to someone if youre in a Small Community and say, i want to hear more stories about people who are cleaning up communities opioiding against the epidemic for rehabilitating houses or doing something that you think is worthwhile. Being an active news consumer is being is very important. I do not know how many of you are on new media like facebook, twitter or instagram, but it is really good if you are not, to get their cut to get on there, because not only is it a challenge to mental acuity, but you can meet new people. Are on instagram, all you have to do is post a picture, put a caption underneath it and it out to people and say this is a really great thing happening in my community and i want to share it with you. Or you can post it to facebook, there are so many ways to become the change yourself. There is also finding where you are located, whether it is the Community Center or Reading Group or church group and talking to people they are about what you can do as a group. There are many ways to make a difference. I have been thinking about that question myself a lot of these years. I will give you the 32nd version of what i have been thinking about as well. Collectiveonal and level, the challenge for us now is that if our problems are like those of the original gilded age, what are the solutions that came out of the originals. Issues it means connecting all of these local stories, people who are standing up for this or that and engaging. I would hope that everyone here would do is that subscribe to local publications. It really does make a difference. You are in los angeles, one of your fields of academic expertise is the industry, the end is best entertainment complex. Reagan imaginary, as you describe it, even though Ronald Reagan himself was certainly a product of the entertainment industry, one of the big demons has been popular entertainment. Talkinghe speaker was about the evangelical, his evangelical movement and why they felt oppressed, they felt as if the Popular Culture was against them, and it gave them no respect. Had you think the entertainment industry, as it think about its responsibility for the Public Welfare . Do you ever talk with them and if you did talk with them, what do you tell them . Mentionedton you media, religion and hollywood among the course. I look at television narratives, and i have done scripted drama, and now i am moving to a Reality Television which i do not like very much, but we all are there so what interested me is that the new move in the country is a lot of polls show that although many people are still religious especially among the young people, they are not affiliating. One of the questions i ask myself is how do people make meaning, how do they connect to larger virtues . I think that one way they do it is through Popular Culture and through looking at the narratives that they see around them and trying to discuss them into some sort of sense. Game of thrones, i think is my favorite example of that nowadays, it is so incredibly popular, because it is a story about power, about sacrifice, ut redemption, sex t sachs about it does not have that much of that this year but also about the incarnation, john snow came back from the dead so, all of the religious ethical scenes are there, and when i hear people talking about them it is often to make sense of this narrative and what it means. If you look at the hebrew bible, that is what it is about about people getting castrated, about people stealing each others wives, people fighting and i believe that those stories, when they were handed down in ancient times, were talked about so that people could draw ethical lessons from them. Do i think that is what we with television today, if we are intentional about consuming it. Of screen a number show runners and riders in my class, we have had david simon, he did the wire, david mills others,deadwood and such as the woman who is doing madam secretary, overhaul hall, many of these people came from religious backgrounds, and they are very conscious of the ideas they put in their shows. David short for example, who did house comes from an Orthodox Jewish family. It was about a modernday sherlock holmes, but he says that house was about asking even if used can have an atheist can act morally. That is what he was looking to show in that series. So while not everyone in hollywood is thinking about larger issues, i have been surprised by the number of people who are and very conscious about putting messages if you will, in their shows. A quick last question before i start calling on the audience. You teach students going into journalism, who is going into journalism now . Who says at age 18 says that he want to be a reporter . Trump has been very good for us [laughter] people, wholot of are going into journalism because they want to be on entertainment tonight or espn. I cannot deny, that is one of our strengths. But i have a fair number of people who still want to change the world. They care about human rights, international relations, making the world a better place, they are going into journalism because i think that they can make a difference, they can talk truth to power, they can afflict comfort the afflicted, their belly is churning, and they are there because they believe that telling these stories is the way to change hearts and minds. That sounds like good news. On that note, let us begin here. [applause] thank you for your talk. Policies we enforce with our tax code, and we have enforced the separation of church and date with our tax code by refusing to allow our religious institutions to take political stances in terms of supporting candidates and so on or by threatening their taxexempt status. The new media, the new means of communication, the access that everybody has to all kinds of information immediately, the Current Administrations mind, it has altered the situation enough that we may not need to continue that policy, and we may be able to allow religious institutions and individuals to maintain their taxexempt status and to promote Political Parties and political individuals. How do you feel about that and where is that going . The inston so the policy is that tax penalties or incentives to keep separate church and state, that it could not directly be involved in politics. Currently the administration is eroding that line. What do you say . Dinae winston you are talking about the johnston amendment the johnston amendment and whether or not they should repeal it, right . I think it is a bad idea. I think separation of church and state is extremely important. [applause] [laughter] thank you though, i am not sure why that it needed applause. Saw back in the 80s, what churches were doing to endorse candidates when they still had the tax problems in front of them. I cannot imagine what they would do if they did not have the tax issues in front of them. Come l that trying to trying to revoke this amendment, is a bad idea, another example of trump playing to his base that i hopes does not come to pass. Next question . My question is about, are there two kinds of storytelling and is the second kind being taught . One kind is character driven, valuebased storytelling, where you would identify with someone. The other kind, we train our engine years and scientists and even engineers and scientists and even economists to think that way. There are only 18 people in congress who majored in science and only one of them has a phd. 90 of chinese leadership studied engineering or science. What is the role of broadening storytelling so that people can look, and be more analytical. Are you training the next generation to do that. Journalismword in education is storytelling right now, and i do not talk enough to my colleagues to know what that means to them. A good story can be plot driven, character driven, little bit of both, but i do believe that any story does need a certain amount of Critical Thinking to tell it well and to tease out the most important things. Because the story that does not and thatsson to it iunds so terribly didactic, guess i do believe that stories should do good in the world. Stories should have a positive influence. So, the problem is that journalism journalists tend to stay away from values and norms like good or bad and judgment calls like that, so to say that you want to teach storytelling as a way to do good in society, or to think about a Better Society would be problematic in the least. Notink the best i can do is Pay Attention to anyone else and just do what i want to do and teach it [applause] to volunteer more on the interaction of sciences, there was a book published a few years ago and i think there is a trained modern narrative of journalism to involve a lot of the stories on science. I have done that a number of times myself, and think it is part of this narrative tradition, whole separate topics, i have lived in china for a long time and i am thetical of any votes on merits of chinese leadership. [applause] mentioned what Consumers Want covered by the media and how important that is. I am curious what you think about what corporations and their investors want covered why the media and how that influences journalism . Once the new bed that is a microand a macro level. Is a greaton that question. Corporations want what. Would make money for them if it is getting they want kittens, if it is scandal they want scandal. Line isl of the bottom making money, so whatever works works. That is a negative to me. Why would it be a negative, it sells . Yes, but i still believe that people would like a little positive with their negative. I know that i enjoy reading stories about exemplars. It is not like i want to read it everyday but if i was reading a story about what is happening in your he, pennsylvania, that people are turning their community around, i think that is a good story. But inot saccharine, think that is why we need to support that kind of journalism. I think on a more insidious level, the fact that so much of the news media is corporate owned, restricts what we read and what we do not read. There is a story in a theory in media that there are things which are never discussed because they are so outside of what social norms are. So for example, Bernie Sanders socialism, was not that much talked about in much of the media. If he had run for president , we would have heard a lot more about what it means to be a socialist. But normally we do not read about socialism because, in our american media, that is an audi a that is outside the pale. Large extent, the corporate ownership of the media, there is an explicit sense of what can be discussed and what cannot. About what is normal and what is not. That is what i meant about norms until fairly recently, we did not call president liars. It is interesting that now we do. And that sort of challenges the status quo, it is something that even Corporate Leaders realized they have to go on. So i think corporate control of media has two different effects, both of them negative, one squashing possible this course that we can get into and the people who want to write about kittens because a lot of people like reading about kittens. And if i could just add again a word in support, there are rims of human activity where there is some tension between purely for profit operation and the larger social effect. Media is one of them, medical care is another, religion as well. These are all built into that situation. Yes sir . Hello, according to my history class studies of the great awakening. , i saw those also as a shift in the religious imaginary of the shifts, but those were where religion was about community service, and taking care of others, and the evangelicals were the will first where the first abolitionist. This rig ande that religious imaginary that you talked about, it is the first religious imaginary that was about the individual and material wealth and success and sort of really laming poor people for really blaming poor people for being poor . And if that is the case, we are kind of in a new territory, so what can we do and what can the news due to pull us out of this . This have never been in situation before, in the context of this angela pendulum swings from one side to the other . Well, i would say that we have been in this situation before, because part of what was the dominant social century the late 19th was this idea of the gospel of wealth, and this idea that individual success and the idea carnegie, goddrew blesses those who take the initiative so i dont think it is new religiously. I think these ideas have always been in competition with each other. One of the things that happen at the end of the gilded age was the progressive era, the work of journalists and church leaders, and civic leaders, who tried to counter that. So, this idea of rampant individualism has to be stopped. It looks different in every age, but i dont think it is totally new. It is interesting because at the end of the 19th century is when you have the beginnings of what we call the prosperity gospel today. You ask god tof love you, you can become really rich and healthy. That idea comes from the new thought school of the late 19th, early 20th century, where you could control things through the power of your mind, and if you thought a certain way, things would follow. That was taken in by christians as well, who saw it as a way to bring people to church who wanted to improve their life. James i think theres a question on this side. There was a spider. Iwonder if you could wonder if you could suggest i get up in the morning and i read the times, and then i go to the Washington Post and i read the editorial page, and at the end of that, im ready for a bottle of antidepressants. I said, im going to stop and take a break. I went back and three days i was reading it. What do we do . Then i thought, ill give the times a chance. They have this column now, what the right and the left is writing. There was bill oreilly. Im not going to read bill oreilly in the new york times. What do we read . Where do we go . Theres always americas oldest magazine, now its most popular magazine website. [applause] prof. Winston i realize now i should put in a plug for my own publication, which i havent done. I am the publisher of religion dispatches. It is a place where we take seriously religion, politics, arts, and culture. It is an alternate site for the news. It is not necessarily happy news, but it could be news that offers a different way of thinking about things, or puts you in touch with people who might be thinking similarly to you. I agree with you. It is hard to read the news these days without getting overly depressed, but i find myself reaching out to more news sites to see what they are doing with this. Ive been struck by what is possible to read at buzz feed or vice or the atlantic. It is interesting to see how different news organizations are taking on the challenge of reporting the trump administration. Have you looks at the onion . That might be a good counter. James thank you. Over here. Yes. You associate individualism and , andth ragan conservatives, and suggest that that works against the common good. Notionsould associate of personal freedom and autonomy, selfdetermination, right to privacy, those kind of individualism, and i guess you could say the cultural left. How do those values, how do they promote the common good . Prof. Winston that is a very good point. It goes to the reality that anything you say, you could say the exact opposite and make a good case for it. Individualism itself is not a bad thing. It was very much vaunted by the left in the 1960s. You could make a very good case for how much of our current predicament has to do with the countercultural move of the 1960s, and some of the ideas, such as individualism and therapeutic culture that were promoted then. The problem is when you have too much of it. I think the problem with one individualism is not necessarily bad. It is to the extent that he pushed it, and the fact that he promoted it in the context of, in my opinion, limited government and free markets. I think that was where it went awry. Agan wanted tax cuts, he believed in limiting government, but he also believed entitlements should end, because personal responsibility should force people to take seriously their ownership of their lives. That is good in theory, but a lot of people cannot do that. I think reagan and some conservatives have a problem realizing that there are people among us who cannot live under that kind of rigorous individualist ethos. James we have four minutes left. Were going to have the people who are already standing up each ask a question, and diane will answer them all together. This is the lightning round. Here,l do four people four questions. The ultra wealthy have lobbyists in washington, d. C. To move their agenda. Is there a similar mechanism that is used for traditional journalism, where they try to influence it, and are we becoming more a nation of sheep . James i will write these down to remind you. Lobbyists for the ultrarich. Good presentation. Where is americas Environmental Protection going . As a matter of longterm Public Health and protection of the planet. James environmental, yes. It seems like there are a lot trumps base and many on the left distrust mainstream news organizations categorically. Is that something that organizations are grappling with, and is there anything they are trying to do to reclaim those folks . James thank you. And you are last. Woke,the leftist term, how much of current secular leftism is itself a spiritualist movement, basically worshiping some kind of dogma or another, where even mentioning a certain ly recalls the scene in the life of brian, where Everyone Wants to stone him. James so it is whether there can be lobbyists for journalism, for public knowledge, state of whether newsnt, organizations are dealing with this from both right and left, mistrust, and whether leftism has a spiritual element right now. You can choose any subset. Write more clearly. Environment, science, woke. Prof. Winston i happen to believe everybody has a spiritual component, because everybody gets out of bed in the morning, and we couldnt if we didnt believe in something beyond ourselves. Whether it is left or right, christian, jew, we need to believe in something. If we dont, that is a big problem. I think that some of the most interesting religion i see is around the environmental movement, and the ecospirituality, ecofeminism, which sees environmentalism as a spiritual religious problem, is deeply moving, and we need to see more journalism about that. Journalists do not take social movements seriously. In the wake of servlets will, we saw of charlottesville, we saw a lot of reporting. We dont see that on occupy until two weeks in. The coverage of black lives matter was terrible. It is still depicted as a radical race movement, where there is so much more to that particular group of people. Getting a lobbyist for people who are proactively social active on the left, i hate to say the left, on the progressive or human oriented side of things, would be good. I havent been in mainstream newspapers or outlets enough to know why they are so slow on picking up social movements that angert based in hatred or. They did better with the womens march, but i think that is because it was against trump. Ifould be curious to see poor people or people of color, marginalized people, want to organize, how much newspapers will cover that. I think it is part of, what do we cover and why do we cover it . Ares the remaining one is, mainstream organizations aware they are being suspect from both sides . Is that something they are grappling with . Prof. Winston i believe they do know it and they are trying to do Everything Possible to appeal to everybody, and they are still thinking about how we make money, and so far it looks like you make more money by baiting people and bringing hate to the four instead of more positive constructive emotions. I never thought i would see the antigovernment stance. It is shocking to me. But then again, if i was part of the altright, i would say my eyes are finally clear. James i think that professor winston has done a marvelous job both in the prepared and unprepared parts of this session. [applause] james well done. Thanks for the wisdom and demonstrated expertise. We ask you to come back tomorrow to hear the final conversation of the week. Please come. We will see you tomorrow. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] phil grote announcer cspans washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that affect you. Coming up wednesday morning, movies. Commist of discusses the potential debt ceiling fight and its possible repercussions on wall street. Future ofg about the the childrens Insurance Program and a review of the recent report on shrinking the executive branch. Be sure to watch cspans washington journal, live on cspan wednesday morning. Join the discussion. Tomorrow, a Panel Discussion on the political and human rights situation in the congo. Cspan2 tomorrow, a look at the Government Agencies and programs that are high risk due to their phone or abilities to fraud, waste, abuse, and mismanagement. This week on cspan, wednesday at 8 00 p. M. , former president s george w. Bush and bill clinton on leadership. Mr. Clinton i always thought i ld have a better life and all these people, i dont care. They tell you they grew up in a log cabin they built themselves, they are full of bull. And we look at pending proposals for the federal budget. And on friday, an interview with agricultural secretary sonny perdue. I was born in 1946 in georgia. They stamp him a crack on your birth certificate. In 1988, and made a decision to change parties and became a republican at that point in time. Conversationd, a with geoff maas. Was a hobby. As the internet grew and there were jobs and people were putting things online and there was money at risk, all of a sudden hackers started getting security. Announcer listen using the free cspan radio app. Geoff flake had a town hall in gilbert, arizona, and took questions on various issues. [applause]