T e en l anexeaat oino t tili i t e e loofrcvein cleld d sptoof ti at thlibrarofones and thpridti per in fac iad my unst child waa by at atim a i reedn areninirni withy o youngesthildren d enalda every day in the archives and it was extraordinary. It is amazing that the library of congress has that people do not realize. If i could tell a quick story there are a lot of rules, as there should be with our nation treasures. I am a rule follower so i wase m t alhat. Evious and er sour fathis n what is . Llarhat is ands comp he his ownny, ity hehavingande kids word scho hourp thff andgo k, c the dm sof disc id it is o leto go hem use ve to f re thesent d is astic you see thronitorch whene tok at h iin hea himself. Hhaitma teardt he had watched his friends mutilated, sliced to ribbons. He absolutely knew the disaster that war was. He found it exhilarating but he was incredibly clear eyed about it. And, to me, i think most importantly, very magnanimous in victory, always the first to reach of the hand of friendship and try to help the enemy rebuild. That was important to him. That started even in a war in south africa. Mr. Lamb when did you start your research on this book . Ms. Millard about five years ago after i finished my manuscript for destiny of the republic. I had had this sort of percolating in my mind and was really interested so i started the research right away. But it is a big job. You know, as you were talking earlier, there is a lot to know about Winston Churchill, even at this young age. And a lot of travel involved and just a lot of time thinking about it. I think that a lot of people that are interested in writing think that writing is sitting at a keyboard and typing, but it is really thinking. You know, you have to gather all of the information, you have to absorb it and then you have to understand it and then you have to figure out how you are going to tell the story. Mr. Lamb when you started the research on this one, oldest was about nine. How have you juggled raising three kids and having time to think and read and research and travel . Ms. Millard it takes longer than i always think it is going to. I always laugh with my editor because im always late on my deadline and not jt week or a month but like, a year. A year late. And i keep saying, yes, three months, maybe six months. So, it does take longer. But i work school hours, and i drop them off and then i go to work and i am in this world and i actually i think in some ways it is easier than if i did not have children and the other demands of my time because it forces discipline on you. I know i have this window of time to work and that is. And if so, i really buckle down and it helps to have an office somewhere else. I am not thinking about the laundry or the messy house. Mr. Lamb in 1900, how big was the British Empire . Ms. Millard it was huge. I mean, it was larger than the roman empire was at its height and that was a problem for the British Empire because they were spread so thin they were constantly putting down revolts. They were winning those other wars but it was very difficult, so i think that is why the boer war surprise them so much because i thought it was going to be another colonial war. It started in october, definitely will be over by christmas and it lasted almost three years. Mr. Lamb what was within the British Empire, what countries today have control of . Ms. Millard it was spread out all over from ireland, all through africa, obviously into india. It was just incredibly diverse and incredibly complex and difficult. I think that is when it all started to come undone. Mr. Lamb you say in your book there were 450 Million People under the British Empire, a 1 4 of the world. How did churchill get in a position of any importance whatsoever at the age of 24 . Ms. Millard he had a very charismatic mother. His father had been a leader of the house of commons and died at 45 years old. She was a young widow. She caught the eye of many people including the prince of wales. She had a lot of connection. She said, we must push with the best. He was only saying, get me an appointment good whenever more a war would break out. He wanted to be there. He would push her to push somebody else to get in an assignment so he was always all over the world to try to be noticed. Mr. Lamb when did you change your mind as you went through your research . When did you say, i had no idea . Ms. Millard again and again. This happens every single time. I get in, thinking i understand the story, and it turns on me. With this what was so shocking was how fully formed churchill was at that time. When you read his letters there was a love interest, pamela. He is writing to her the first time he runs for parliament, and he says, i do not know what is going to happen with this election but with every speech i gave i feel my growing power. He had this idea of this destiny that he had. Now, there was a lot of luck along the way, but he absolutely knew. He had what is called faith in his star. I do not know what you were like a 23 but i had no idea who i was, who i wanted to be, how to get there but he had it planned out. Mr. Lamb you said in the book that he had 1500 toy soldiers. Ms. Millard yes, he did, and you can still see some of them. Some of them are actually in the war rooms in london. He was fascinated by war. From a very early age. He is a descendent of the duke of marlborough who is considered to be one of the greatest generals in british history, and he was very, very much aware of that legacy. He went to the sandhurst Royal Military academy, and he loved the wargames. He thought it was a shame that was not real. The first chance he got, he jumped into it. Mr. Lamb how many people lived in that area we saw on the map . Ms. Millard i mean, the boers were scattered. If youre only talking about the boers, there was a large african population which was very much oppressed and discriminated against but the boers they were scattered. That is actually what made them a dangerous and difficult enemy because they so the british were still fighting in perfect, precise lines. They had only just given up the red coats. They called this the khaki war. Going into the boer war, they had no idea what they were up against. The boers who had been fighting for centuries with the zulu or hunting, they know how to disappear and how to at come at their enemy, so you have thousands of people coming thousands of miles to fight this. Mr. Lamb i want to share the cover of your book. You talk about the helmet on the head and you call it a cork helmet. When you see that picture where does it come from . Ms. Millard that is from an earlier war in sudan. Right before this war. Mr. Lamb how much education did he have at this point . Ms. Millard only sandhurst. It actually took in three attempts to get in but he did not have a college education. And he felt that deeply, actually, and when he was in india, his first assignment, he was in the military, and he had his mother constantly send him books to educate himself. That was obviously a theme throughout his life. He was a voracious reader. Mr. Lamb what rank was he . What was the arrangement that he was a correspondent . Ms. Millard he actually got a trouble with that. There were no rules against being a soldier and corresponded at the time. He was openly critical of the generals, espeally kitchener. Who hated him, and that continued throughout their lives. And because of churchill, because of the role he played, they finally made a rule. You cannot be both. You can be in a military, or you can be a correspondent, but you cannot be both. Then, during the boer war, when he becomes a hero, he goes back and he is asked thank you for what you have done they had lost battle after battle what can we do for you . He says, give me a regiment. I went to go, and i want to fight, and he puts him in this position, because things, i cannot do that. We have this because of you, and churchill understood what he was doing. But he did not car he wanted to be able to do both. He absolutely wanted to get into a fight. They said, all right. We will let you do it. It ends up it is just an incredible turn of events in history. He ended up going with a regiment to pretoria on the day that it goes to the british, and he takes over the prison and he frs the men who had been his fellow prisoners. He puts in the prison his former jailers and he watched the flag is torn down and the union jack is raised in its place. Mr. Lamb you say that you talk to his granddaughter . Ms. Millard yes, she is an extraordinary person, and she has studied carefully. She was close to him when she was arrive. She has made it her career, chasing churchill. She has written many books about him. She has gone everywhere he has gone. She wrote a book about this. She takes her son with her and they are in this book. Present day, saying this is where these events took place, but she spent a lot of time in south africa, and she was very, very gracious to me. Mr. Lamb here she is talking about the boerar [video clip] i stood on a ledge, seized the top of the wall and drew myself up. Twice, i let myself down in hesitation. And then, with a third resolve, scrambled up and over. Landing among the bushes on the other side of the prison wall, Winston Churchill placed his feet firmly on the international stage. Just 25, he could now begin to fulfill his own prophecy. I have faith in my star but im intended to lose something in the world. Mr. Lamb who is her mother . Ms. Millard her mother was one of churchills daughters. I am forgetting her name. Anyway, she was very close and her mother, unfortunately, took her own life, and so, i think she feels a strong connection with her grandfather and that absolutely comes through. Mr. Lamb what would you have seen if you d enble to have a conversation with Winston Churchill at age 24 . Ms. Millard i would have seen an absolutely arrogant, ambitious, fascinating young man who was determined to fulfill what he believed was his destiny and that is what is so interesting about him. There are a lot of young men and women who think they are going to do something great in this work, but the difference is that a lot of them wait for things to sort of happened to them, and instead, Winston Churchill seized this opportunity. He could not predict what would have happened to him in south africa. He could not have believed it would take this incredible turn, but it did, and as he himself later said, could i have known that this misfortune would lay the foundations for my later life . So i think, even at that later time, it would have been fascinating to talk to him and to look at the future and see what would become of him and the world. Mr. Lamb why was he a hero . Ms. Millard that is what he had always wanted to be. Right . This war after war that he throws himself into. He wants to be gallant. He wants to be noticed. He does not want to do something quietly. He wants people to pay attention, because he thought that that was his pathway to power. Absolutely, he was considered a hero after he made it out alive. Again, the british were losing. This really raised the morale. They needed a hero, somebody to get behind, and here is this man who had humiliated the boers and had this incredible adventure, and it was an incredible boost to all of them and their morale, and he was a hero, and he himself said, he very quickly ran for parliament and won this time, and he wrote a letter to the Prime Minister and said, there is no question that it was because of my popularity out of the war in south africa. Mr. Lamb i wrote down a quote. Road all along the front of the skirmish line where everybody else was lying down in cover. And then, at the end of that quote, without the gallery, things are different. Explain what all of that means. Ms. Millard again, he wanted to be noticed. So he said, given an audience, no act is too daring or too noble. He had bought this horse from a young soldier who had been killed earlier in the same war, and to the astonishment of the men around him, he rode it onto the battlefield, this white pony, just hoping that somebody would notice that he is incredibly brave and that he deserved the Victoria Cross because of it. The chance was more likely that the enemy would notice and rs mr. Lamb this is an interesting story about his mother, who you say is an american. Explain how she was an american. The story about the fundraiser, the party, the same day that he was, i believe, taken prisoner. Her name was jenny. What was that all about . And what got my attention is that somebody said she was a bit short on brain. Ms. Millard no, that was the man she ended up marrying. So jenny, her father was well known in the united states. She had grown up in brooklyn and he had won several fortunes. And lost several fortunes, and he was having all of these affairs, so her mother finally took her and her sisters to france, and it was soon after that that she met Lord Randolph Churchill. She was a glittering figure in British Society and she loved it, loved that spotlight. And i think that churchill adored his mother but, at a distance. He was put in boarding school at a very young age and did not see his parents much. His father was busy with his political career. His mother was busy with her parties, and churchill going to war, she threw a huge benefit, wanted to put together a ship, a hospital ship, to go to south africa. One of the reasons she wanted to go is that she was in love with a young man who was only two weeks older than Winston Churchill. And she tells him, look, i going to marry george and he said, i do not think you will. I think the family pressure will crush him. Jenny heron took this from her. She was very determined. She did not care what anybody else thought. She was having a great time. And she did end up marrying george, and you will be shocked to learn that it did not last. Just a few years, and he ended up leaving her for another older woman who was an actress. Mr. Lamb George Cornwallis West was his name. Short on brain. [laughter] ms. Millard he was very handsome, but, yes, not an intellect. Mr. Lamb where do you find yourself having the most fun in the book . Ms. Millard during his escape. There is a lot to explain until you get to that part of the story. Understanding, what was he doing in south africa anyway . What is going on . But once you get to when he is on this armored train, and he is 24 years old, he is one of the few civilians on the train and it is attacked by the boers, and he immediately takes charge of the defense of the train even though there are lots of soldiers on the train. Legitimate, uniformed soldiers. Their commander is right there. He invited him on this train, and he takes charge. What is even more extraordinary is that everybody listens. They listen to him and they do what he tells them to do. Every man who makes it out alive credits Winston Churchill for his resourcefulness and his bravery for saving their lives. He jumps off. They finally free what is left of the train. Half of it was catapulted off the tracks. Half of the train was blocking the tracks. They were able to get the train going while there are bullets. He jumps off because he thinks there are more wounded men. He is going to help them. He gets there, and he realizes that they have already been taken prisoner. He sees two boers and he reaches for his pistol and he realizes that he left it on the train and he was a huge admirer of napoleon, and he remembered a quote from napoleon saying, if you are alone and unarmed there is no shame in surrender and he raises his hands and surrenders. They take him to pretoria, to a building which was a teachers college, a school, and today, it is a public library. The building still stands there, but it was a prison just for officers. There was another place for soldier prisoners, and it was surrounded by six and a half foot tall corrugated iron, constantly patrolled by armed guards. He was only there for about one month and he immediately as soon as he was taken prisoner, he is furious because he thinks that this incredible war is going on without him. With all of these opportunities for gallantry and to make his name and to make his mark, and he wanted to escape and he is miserable. He hated being a prisoner. In fact, years later, he wrote that he hated every minute of captivity more than he had ever hated any other period in his whole life. So from the moment he was captured, he was making plans to escape. But being Winston Churchill, they are not sort of simple, quiet plans. His plans were, ok, were going to take over this prison, and then we are going to take over this prison were the soldiers are, and then were going to take over the tour area and capture the president and end the war, and nobody would listen to him. He heard these two guys, his friend who had been a commander of the armored train, and another guy who was very savvy. He spoke zulu and afrikaans, and he heard them plotting and a very simple escape. Just making it over there were newly electric lights. There was one corner of the wall that was dark and they knew that if you timed it correctly, you could get over the wall and churchill tells them that he wanted in on the plan and neither of them want to take him. They know that he is too talkative, too famous, and he is not strong enough. He is going to be a burden the whole way, but holden feels guilty and says, look, we do not want you to come but i will leave it up to you and churchill says, i am coming and he actually makes it over the wall and they dont. He leaves them behind. Mr. Lamb pretoria is where . Ms. Millard pretoria is farther north, up from where we saw ladysmith, so, it is farther north, and that it is still, i mean, it is 500 miles north of british cape colony. So it is very far from there. To the west and the north, it is highly protected by the boers so his only option was to go east, to portuguese east africa. But it is almost 300 miles. Mr. Lamb this territory is under the sovereignty of what . Is it british . Ms. Millard no, the boers. It is all enemy territory. Mr. Lamb how did they could get that territory . Ms. Millard they took it from the native africans over centuries. In 1833, the british abolished slavery and that was the breaking point for the boers who had always wanted independence anyway, so they went on what was called the great track, and they traveled hundreds of miles into the african interior, and they established three different republics. The most important of which was the transvaal, which is where pretoria is, and that is the capital is. Mr. Lamb so, he escaped from prison and what happened to make him a hero and why was he how did people know about it . Ms. Millard everybody knew about it. Even though you think, he is just a 24yearold that he was the son of Lord Randolph Churchill and Randolph Churchill had actually been in south africa a few years earlier and was hated by the boers because he wrote all of these letters that were published in british newspapers excoriating the boers for many things, especially their treatment of native africans, so when they captured Winston Churchill, it was fantastic. They were thrilled. It was the son of a lord. He represented everything that they despised about the British Empire. When he escapes, they are humiliated and enraged and they are searching everywhere to find him and recapture him or there is a very real risk that they will kill him if they find him. And this is one of these moments where just an incredible instance of luck, so when the boer war began, they forced out most of the britons who were living in the area at the time. They only kept the people that were essential to them. John howard was there with the coal mines. They are bringing up coal, and that is running the country and running the war, and so churchill, when he is alone, and he is scanned, and he has nothing, so his coconspirators are still in prison, and they have a map. The food, the weapons, the plan. He does not speak the language. He has nothing. He is just at every moment thinking he is going to be captured, and he is desperate, and he sees in the distance these fires, and it first, he thinks it is an african village and he thinks he will go there and ask for help because he things that the africans hate the boers even more so maybe maybe i can get them to lend me a guide and a horse, but he realizes that these are the fires from a coalerie. And he stops and realizes that he is taking an incredible chance because all he has been doing is hiding and he is going to step out of the gloom, and he thinks, i have to, you know . There is no other way about it, so he comes up with a crazy story and he knocks on the first door that he comes to and john howard opens the door and he starts to tell him, i am a boer, and i fell off the train and hurt my shoulder, and he is thinking, i do not speak afrikaans. How am i going to pull this off . And john looks at him and says, i think you should come inside. So he takes into a room and he puts a gun on the table and churchill realizes he has had it the whole time and he turns around and he locks the door and churchill thinks this is not going well for me and he says, i think i should tell you the truth and howard says, i think you better, and he says, i am Winston Churchill, and i have escaped, and he reaches out his hand and he says, i am english, im going to help you, and churchill says it felt like it was like a drowning man being pulled out of the water. Mr. Lamb there is a lot more to the story after this. What did you trust when you are going to your primary source . Did Winston Churchill write about this, and what makes you think he was telling the truth, it given that he wanted glory . Ms. Millard he wrote it in articles for the morning post. He wrote about the experience and his fantastic autobiography. Called my early life, and it is absolutely fascinating, but it wasnt just his work. John howard this other man who helps him get over to portuguese east africa, who was hiding him in a train he wrote about it as well and small things like he did an interview. In a newspaper i found, he wrote a letter to churchill so i have those sources, as well and the men who were with him so, all of these things corroborate what churchill was saying. Mr. Lamb with all of the traveling you did, what was the most important . Ms. Millard to me, standing on the South African felt and understanding what churchill was feeling because when we think of Winston Churchill, it seems like a different species. He is this incredibly famous man, absolutely far from a perfect man but one of the greatest leaders in the history of the world, and he so removed, but standing there, you can understand his desperation and this sense of vulnerability. And at one point, while he is traveling, he was not a religious man but he finally prayed for guidance and help because he has nowhere else to turn and that is something that i think anybody can understand and there was this shared humanity that we have. Mr. Lamb you say the South African veld what is it . Ms. Millard it is the terrain of south africa. So it is a very low, flat, scrubby terrain, and there is not much there. Living in kansas, it reminds me of the kansas horizon just goes on and on forever. Mr. Lamb we are about out of time. You have three kids. Boys . Girls . Ms. Millard i have two girls and one boy. My oldest daughter has read my first two books. She says she is interested in history. Mr. Lamb your husband told you you first that you were a good writer . Did he get involved in these books . Ms. Millard he comes with me when i do research which is fun for me and it is great because he was a war correspondent. Especially when i was going to south america for my first book, and there were a few dodgy situations, it is nice to have him with me. Mr. Lamb so do you want to tell us who you are thinking about writing about next . Ms. Millard to be honest, i have three possibilities but i have a lot of work to do before i know if any of them are going to work. Mr. Lamb here is the cover of the book, hero of the empire the boer war, a daring escape, and the making of Winston Churchill. Our guest has been candice millard. Of near kansas city, kansas. Thank you very much. Ms. Millard thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2016] announcer for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q a. Org. Q a programs are also available as cspan podcasts. Announcer if you enjoyed this weeks q a interview with candice millard, you may enjoy reid talks about the Winston Churchill he wrote. And aida donald. Talks about her book citizen soldier a life of harry truman. Watch these anytime or search our entire Video Library at cspan. Org. Onnext, live your calls washington journal. And our road to the white house come rich of the final campaign day begins live with donald trump in sarasota, florida and a Campaign Rally in pittsburgh is live at noon. President obama campaigned in durham, New Hampshire live at 3 00 p. M. Election night on cspan, watch the result and be part of a National Conversation about the outcome. Be on location at the Hillary Clinton and, cap Election Night headquarters and want to victory and concession speeches in key senate and governors house races starting live at 8 00 p. M. And throughout the following 24 hours. Watch live or listen to our live coverage on the free cspan radio app. Withis morning we talk reporters along the country about the latest news from the battleground states of ohio, north carolina, florida and New Hampshire. Later yahoo news Deputy Editor reveals the top places that shaped campaign 2016. As always we take your calls and you can join the conversation on twitter. Washington journal is next. Good morning, it is monday, november 7, 2016. We are one day from election day. I campaign full of twists and turns took a new one yesterday when the fbi cleared Hillary Clinton in his email probe. Es comey from congress inform the congress that Hillary Clinton will face no charges on her handling of confidential information. Donald trump pointed to the mov