Transcripts For CSPAN QA 20151228

He wasnt always right. In fact, he predicted that dewey would win in 1948. But he was right about world war iii. And he talked a lot about that later on in the book, the drew pearson diaries. It covers 1960 to 1969. Several places in there, he talks about the danger of war and how the russians he doesnt think the russians really want war. He interviewed the biggest russian leader of that era several times, khrushchev. Khrushchev works into his thoughts and dealings with the russians frequently. Brian there is a lot i want to just lay down some of the things he did and tell me if any of this is right or wrong. First to report of general patton slapping the soldier. Tyler 1943. Brian general Douglas Macarthur sued him for defamation, but pearson threatened to publish his letters from his mistress. Tyler yes. And macarthur backed off. In fact, those letters are still around. I got a call about them several years ago from a guy who just researched them because he was a because his lawyer at the time he died he left all his papers to the university of texas. So those letters popped up when morris ernst died. Brian senator mccarthy, what was his relationship to him . Tyler at the very, very beginning, he regarded mccarthy as an interesting source. But pretty soon, he got very crosswise with mccarthy because mccarthy was promoting anticommunism with such an abandon that he regarded almost everybody, including george marshall, as a handmaiden of communism. George marshall was the secretary of state, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, and one of eisenhowers best friends. Everybody got mad at eisenhower for not doing a better job defending mccarthy. I mean, attacking mccarthy for doing that. One famous occasion was when mccarthy attacked drew in the cloakroom of the celebrate club. Of all the people to get credit for breaking up the fight, it was Richard Nixon. Later, drew sued mccarthy, but that suit didnt go very far. Brian what moment i read these diaries and you are in them throughout as being around drew pearson. What personal moment do you remember the most of being his stepson . Tyler that is a question that i have had to think about. He and i were so close that it was, you know he was a remarkable person and he really loved his family. He was very, very helpful to me in so many different ways. And he was really very much a father. I cant think of one instance. There were just too many. Brian your mother married him when you were how old . Tyler 4 years old. Brian there is a moment in the book, in the diaries, where he wants you and is recommending you to be a part of a kind of Kitchen Cabinet for Lyndon Johnson. What were those circumstances . Tyler just one of the examples of how amazing drew was. I mean, here he was, writing a column seven days a week, giving lectures, doing a radio broadcast once a week, and running a farm. But he thought johnson should have some extra help running his campaign. At the end of the campaign, he says, johnson did it all himself, which was really true but he recommended that johnson pick several people to work behind the scenes and do things that would help the campaign. I was one. Leonard marx was one. Ernie, bob martin. We call ourselves the 5 00 club because we met at the white house, upstairs in the back office, at 5 00 every afternoon. We thought up how we could do something that would shake up goldwater or be a plus for the campaign. Brian how many newspapers published his column . Tyler he took credit for 650. And im not sure. There might have been more. I remember once, this is when i was a little boy. I said, the farmworkers think that you are not spending enough money on the farm because you are in 600 papers. It says on your radio broadcast that you are published in 600 papers. And if you just got a dollar a paper a day, you would be rich and he said, well, but some of those papers are weeklies and they only pay less than that. Maybe only 1 a week. It was an interesting conversation. I have never forgotten it. The number of papers went back and forth and up and down. Brian one of the things i underlined a lot in the book and a lot of the quotes these are out of context, but i am sure you can put them in perspective. Here is one talking about jacqueline kennedy. It is early in the book. This is what he says your stepfather writes, this is a cold gal, who, deep down doesnt have much sympathy for the aims of her husband and wouldnt know a social reform when she saw one. Tyler i remember that quote. He goes backandforth about jackie as he does about a lot of people. I remember once him saying that his wife thinks that jackie is just lazy and thats why the white house dinner wasnt a better dinner, because jackie was lazy. He doesnt adopt that himself. He ascribes that to my mother, his wife. And he has a few cold things to say about jackie from time to time. I dont know the exact context of that quote. Brian what were his politics . Tyler he was quite demonstrably a progressive. Which i guess today you would say he was far left. In those days, a progressive would be a progressive of that era would not be considered that far to the left, i dont believe. I have been wondering how he would regard the current political situation with the division between the parties. I dont think he would have been for bernie sanders. Im not sure how he would have felt about hillary. Hillary has got so much money that i think that would have turned him off. But i dont know who he would have been for. Brian the one thing that surprised me as i read through it is how often he was involved in trying to get legislation passed. Tyler yes. Brian what was his this is from monday, january 20 it would have been Inauguration Day for Richard Nixon in 1968. Tyler 1969. Brian 1969, absolutely. This is a big day. I hated to see it come. I never could have imagined that Richard Nixon would become president. I was dictating a speech against wally hickel, to be delivered by senator tydings, and forgot to turn on the television to watch nixon. As a journalist, what was he doing getting involved in trying to get somebody defeated for the cabinet . Tyler he did it all the time. He absolutely did it all the time. One of the as a journalist, he didnt think that those rules applied to him. He didnt advertise it, but he worked behind the scenes or what he thought was behind the scenes, trying to promote different senators to make speeches and he would write the speech for them about all sorts of different things. And it is fascinating. How did he have time to write the column and to travel to south dakota to give a speech . It is amazing. Brian when did you decide ive got an old column here, back in 1970 1974. So you published the first round. It was between 1974 and today that the two different diaries have been published. Tyler yes. I should have done all three i should have done three volumes and i should have done them right away. But i got backed up and short of time. One thing or another. So, i kept postponing. I am a terrible procrastinator unlike my stepfather, who immediately did everything. If he had a column to write, he got up at 4 00 in the morning and wrote it before breakfast. I would figure out how to postpone it until the day after tomorrow. It was just remarkable, all the things that he did. Sometimes he would criticize himself in the diary. If you have read them that carefully, you must have come across different places where he says, i think that column was too strong, i shouldnt have said it quite that way. Or lyndon is going to get mad at me for the way i wrote that column. But he needed to hear it and im glad i wrote it. Brian who published the first volume . Tyler winston. Brian how did that volume do . How much interest was there in that . Tyler not as much as i thought there would be. I think that is one of the reasons i kind of postponed the second volume. Brian how many years did he keep a diary . Tyler he started in january 1949. And he opens up and says, david carr has told me i have to keep a diary. And i am starting right now. And he kept on with the diary. The first few years, he skipped many more days than he did later on. It is interesting that the 1960s he wrote almost every day. Not every day is in the published volume. You could hardly pick up the published volume as it is. It is so heavy. It could easily have been twice as big. That is how much had to be left out. Brian and you had a republican to edit this. Tyler yes. A very good friend of mine. Peter hannaford, who was a big reagan man. Peter and i were in the army together. We maintained a friendship ever since. Brian and he tyler he just died. Very sad. He finished the editing and had just went out on a saturday and signed books at the local bookstore where he lived in eureka, california. And came back, thought things were really good, had been a good day. Sold a bunch of books and he never woke up. Brian how much of what was in the diary did you edit out for sensitivity reasons . Tyler zero. Brian put it all in there. Tyler yes. I mean, some of it might have gotten out because but there wasnt anything about who slept with who or anything like that that got left out because of you know, because we were bashful. Brian there is an enormous amount of who slept with who in this. Why was he so interested in that . Tyler isnt that the way our culture is . Its amazing. At one point, the russians say tell him i think the Russian Ambassador says why is america so into sex . Thats all anybody talks about around here. There is a comment that he makes one page. He says ive got enough stuff to write a whole book about love being made in the white house. If i ever get around to it, it will be quite a book. Brian in the middle of the Johnson Administration, valenti, meaning jack valenti, told me an interesting story about bobby kennedy. Brian has that ever been published before . Tyler i never read it before. Brian she is still alive. Tyler yeah, and still beautiful. Brian did you read his diary before he died . Tyler yeah. No, before he died, i didnt. I am very sorry, i didnt. I misspoke. Brian what was his attitude about having this published . Tyler he said he obviously thought it should be published, because in his will, he said tyler abell should be the editor of my diaries. So i went around looking for the diaries and there is a lot, just a lot to where i finally put them all into threering notebooks. There were 24 notebooks. Standard notebook about that thick. A very small part of it was about sex, but it was there. Brian one of the things i noticed is that he was having dinner or lunch all the time was somebody with somebody that is a wellknown name. I will just pick one of them now and ask you about her. Agnes meyer. Tyler yes. Brian who was she and why did they have so many lunches and dinners and trips on yachts together . Tyler agnes meyer was a wonderful person. And a very good friend of drews. I knew her a little bit just because drew knew her, but i saw her rarely, but enough to say hello. I called her mrs. Meyer. She was kay grahams mother. Kay graham agnes husband was eugene meyer. He is the one who bought the post out of bankruptcy and made the post into a going concern. He was a very good businessman. And he died i never met him. I cant remember exactly when he died. But agnes just sort of adopted drew and my mother, who was a charming lady. And they were good friends. It is interesting to read how frequently they were together. She took them on boat trips. But she took everybody on the boat. You would have loved to have been on that boat. I mean, there was the chief justice of the United States and lightest using headline stephenson drew pearson, a , couple of other interesting people you would have loved it. And drew enjoyed it. Brian whats the story of when agnes meyer and drew pearson went to see khrushchev on the yacht . Tyler i cant remember all the details of that, but drew had been angling to get another interview with khrushchev. When he was on the yacht, it was his second one. And he was going back and forth with various russians russian inbetweens to get another interview with khrushchev. And finally, just as a surprise, they were on the yacht in the black sea and the word came that you, drew, have to come immediately to see mr. Khrushchev. He is waiting for you. And so there was just a very fast auto trip to khrushchevs place. I and they spent a couple of hours and then came back. Whereas before, the first interview drew had with khrushchev, they spent three days together. And drew and my mother slept there. They talked all the time. Had their meals together. Went swimming together. Had a wonderful time together. Brian i didnt count them, but i will guess that 25 times in this diary, he is having lunch or dinner with anatoly doe anatoly, the ambassador from russia to United States. Why was he so interested in russia and why did they talk to him so much . Tyler that is a question that i would love to answer myself. I just it is amazing how much of drews time was spent with the russians. And then the fbi was covering the Russian Embassy. So they knew when drew went in and out of the Russian Embassy. And at one point, he was accused by the president of the United States of spending all of his time with anatoly, and you are in there at 2 00 and 3 00 in the morning. And so drew goes back and talks with his wife and says when did we ever go to the Russian Embassy at 2 00 or 3 00 in the morning . And my mother said they must have the date wrong or the time wrong. I bet the fbi said it was 2 00 p. M. , and when it got transcribed a couple of times, a it came out as 2 00 a. M. And drew is not sure about that. But he did spend an awful lot of time with the russians. Russia and the United States were the two biggest powers. Each of them had the Nuclear Capacity to blow the other one completely off the face of the earth. And had there been a war, it would have been terrible. And there was a certain danger of a war. One misstep and it might have happened. Brian you made the connection earlier with agnes meyer and the Washington Post and kay graham and all that. His column was published in the post. But as far as i can remember, it was in an unusual place that they put that column. Where was it and why . Tyler it was on the comic page. And drew was always proud that it was on the comic page. Some people made fun of it and thought it should be in the editorial page. He said, no, im published every day and everybody reads the comics and thats a good place to be. Brian it wasnt that way in every paper, though. Tyler no. Brian there is not much video of him. We did find this mike wallace interview so that people could hear what he sounded like. Here is another 20second excerpt from that 1957 interview. [video clip] ive predicted that mr. Nixon will become president of the United States within approximately a year. I think mr. Nixon will make a better president than mr. Eisenhower. The reason i say that is that mr. Nixon has trained for this job. [end video clip] brian it did not work out so well for him on that prediction. Tyler no. Two president ial elections he has been wrong on. There is one later in the diary, where it is i think it is early 1968, and he predicts that, if nixon is nominated, he will lose. But he just predicts that in the diary. As far as i know, it did not appear in a column or on the radio. Brian in 1964 in the diary, he did say this i have already come to the conclusion that ike has no guts. Why didnt he like eisenhower . Tyler thats a very good question. I was with him in 1951. We were in europe together. And he sought out ike. We talked for a while. That was the only time i think i ever personally met eisenhower. I was a freshman in college. So, there was a personal relationship. But as a president , he didnt do what drew would have liked to have done. And i dont think there was one specific thing. Maybe mccarthy. Because a lot of people criticized ike for not taking after mccarthy. And eisenhower, i think, had the opinion that, the more he went after mccarthy, it just picked him up. The best thing to do with mccarthy was to ignore him. Brian today, this is an old story. It has been written many times. But back in that 1957 interview, it is about john f. Kennedy. We will run it. It is only 30 seconds. At the time, he doesnt even remember the name of the fellow that he is accusing of writing profiles in courage. [video clip] i dont think he should have you should have a synthetic Public Relations buildup for any job of that kind. Jack kennedy is a fine young fellow, a personable fellow, but he is not as good as that Public Relations campaign makes them him out to be. He is the only man in history i know who won a Pulitzer Prize on a book which was ghostwritten for him, which indicates the kind of Public Relations build a buildup he has had. Who wrote the book for him . I know that the book, profiles in courage, was written for kennedy by somebody else. [end video clip] brian was the diary separate and distinct from what he wrote in his column . Tyler the diary was totally separate and distinct. But let me comment about the little clip you just showed. Dont you find it interesting that, fairly recently, the news has carried a lot about who wrote profiles in courage. Ted sorensen was the person who clearly wrote a lot of it. But since the Pulitzer Prize winning author and ted sorensen are both gone, i dont think anybody is ever going to know exactly who wrote how much. Brian drew pearson in the diary wrote the following statement on december 20. I dont have the dates here. It was during, when jack kennedy was president. [laughter] brian he writes a lot about joe kennedy and women. And that his sons followed his example. Tyler my mother recalls that she sat next to joe kennedy at dinner one night. If she told me, i cant remember where the dinner was. And the next morning, she got a very fancy bouquet of flowers from joe kennedy. Brian what was your mother like and what was her name . Tyler her name was you leave butler moore. She married my father, then divorced him, and married drew pearson. She went by the name livvy Moore Pearson most of her life. But she got the message from joe kennedy that, had she wanted to respond to those flowers, it would have been easy. Brian another entry, friday october 23, 1964. I havent marked off the different chapters. Heres what he wrote. Brian what is the background on that story . Tyler i dont know. I dont know. I had heard those rumors and i guess for drew it was more than just a rumor. He thought that j. Edgar was homosexual. Brian did you ever talk to him about his columns . Tyler sure. In fact, i worked for him for a while. Brian what did you do . Tyler i was elevated pretty quickly. He let me investigate and write. If i wrote something that he liked, he published it. I wrote plenty that never got published, but it was quite an experience. Brian when did you feel his power . When did you notice it . Tyler he was so different in person. If you didnt know him, you couldnt believe how different he was. There is a note in that book you are holding in your lap when he goes in to see george bundy. And bundy is telling him about vietnam and things like that. And drew is very critical of bundy. As he talks with bundy for some time, he realizes he has been there long enough and he gets up to leave. And he quotes bundy as saying, well, dont be in such a hurry to leave. Youre so much more personable in person than you are in print. [laughter] unless you knew the man, you would think that he was just a demon. Because things he wrote about were pretty bad. And he would tear people up. But when you talked to him, he was the nicest guy in the world. Brian what was his relationship with Arthur Goldberg . Tyler very close. Brian who was Arthur Goldberg . Tyler that is a very good question. I guess a lot of people would not remember Arthur Goldberg. I think of him as almost an uncle. He started life in the labor world and was the chief negotiator for the steelworkers. Steelworkers . I think the steelworkers. One of the major unions. And kennedy made him secretary of labor. And then later made him associate justice of the Supreme Court. He was kennedys second appointment to the Supreme Court. The first being white. And then johnson talked goldberg into leaving the Supreme Court to become ambassador to the u. N. And drew had known goldberg when he worked i think he was general counsel of the steelworkers. And that is when drew first met him. But then they just became very close, very, very close. It seems like the day is not complete unless he has goldberg to breakfast, lunch, dinner, or all three. Its amazing. Brian in 1965, he was working with Jack Anderson. What was Jack Andersons relationship to your stepfather . Tyler jack had started working for drew in probably late 1945 early 1946, as a leg man. Drew had several people that helped him gather news and jack was one of those. Jack had worked his way up and became the top guy of the leg man group. He was the one who inherited the column when drew died. Brian this is from 1965, this is one of the oval Office Conversations with Lyndon Johnson and drew pearson about a piece that Jack Anderson wrote. Were they both writing at the same time, merrygoround . Tyler they were. Sometimes drew would give jack credit and let him write under his own byline. Drew was rather protective of that. Most of the time, it was drews byline. He wrote under the byline of drew pearson and also washington merrygoround. Washington merrygoround was the book that he published that originally got him fired. Since he was fired, he started writing the column. The column was always washington merrygoround. Occasionally, drew would publish a piece that was almost all written by jack. Drew paid jack. He used the column and it was drews name, but he would tell somebody like Lyndon Johnson well, i dont remember that column as well as i should because jack wrote it. Brian he even admits in the diary of playing one off the other. Lets listen to this conversation with president johnson and drew pearson. [voice recording] say, ive got a problem. Did you see Jack Anderson andersons story yesterday . Yes, i did. I never heard of that, just never heard of him. Not one part of it someone mustve planted that. They quoted how the white house felt and how i felt. If i were mansfield, i would be mad as hell. On my honor, i have never heard a word of it. Just out of the clear blue and i felt that was awfully irresponsible to do that that way. I thought it was kind of a funny story, too. I talked to jack about it. I cautioned him a little bit about it. In fact, i say a little bit, i cautioned him very definitely. But he claimed he had it right. But i will tell you what i will do. I will talk to him again. I was out of town part of last week. I had to go out to california. And if its not right, even if jack doesnt like it, i will write something to the contrary. Brian how close were those two men . Lbj and tyler they were very close. They were very close. As a matter of fact, i didnt realize how close they were, even though i worked for both of them at one time or another. I worked for Lyndon Johnson and i also worked for my stepfather. But in reading the diaries, it came to light how many times they got together that i didnt know about. I asked my wife, who was the social secretary at the white house, if she could remember how many times drew had come to a social function at the white house. And it shows up a lot in the diary. And she said she didnt recall exactly how many. I said, well, do you think it was a lot . She said i dont think it was a lot. But when you read the diary, i hope everybody listening to this program will read the diary, you will see it comes up time and time again. He and drew and my mother go off to the white house for dinner or lunch. He is always saying something about jack or about lyndon in the book, in the diary. He mainly calls him lyndon. Sometimes he calls him johnson. Sometimes president. But, frequently he just says lyndon is doing a wonderful job. He is working so hard. I wish i could help him more. But i had to write that column about him because he has gotten too far off on the vietnam thing. And he really needs to get away from that. Brian we have another tape. Before we run it, drew pearson helped write some of the state of the Union Message that Lyndon Johnson gave back near the end of his term . Tyler well brian it was not in the middle of his term. It was in 1964, he had just gotten reelected. He had to give a state of the Union Message in 163 1964. Were you aware that he was tyler i was not. That would have been the type of thing that drew would have made sure did not get out. He knew that that diary was not going to get out until after he died. Brian lets listen to this conversation so the you can hear there is a little innuendo here. [voice recording] drew . Good morning. Im trying to read your speech, but these benighted republican papers wont didnt you hear . I am on the plane. I am in north dakota. You disappoint me. You dont even know whats in it, dont you . I heard you got a tremendous amount of applause. I got 81 applauses. It was a 25minute speech and it took 41 because of the applauses. And the biggest one, after the introduction and the ovation was we intend to bury no one and we do not intend to be buried. Good. Did you ever hear anything like that . I think thats wonderful. Now dont go home and go bragging to your grandson. [laughter] im not bragging to anyone except about you. Brian how was he able to keep the friendship going and yet write negative things from time to time about Lyndon Johnson and obviously some very positive things . How was he able to suffer the slings and arrows about all the slings and arrows of the people he wrote about . Tyler that is a very good question. You are asking about the personality of a man that is one of the most complicated that has ever lived, Lyndon Johnson. Johnson, first of all, the friendship goes back to the very earliest days when johnson first ran for congress. Which was in 1937, 1936 or 1937. And it had extended all this time. And drew comments in another little excerpt that is interesting, when he realizes that now johnson is president , he says, this is the first time i have ever really known a president as well as i know johnson. And im going to have to stop calling him lyndon and start calling him mr. President. But drew would write something that he knew johnson wouldnt like. Johnson was very thinskinned. But then johnson also realized that drew was doing him a lot of favors. A lot of people would tell johnson that. There are excerpts where leonard marx, who was a good friend of both of them, would call and tell drew that the president is really down on you about the thing that you wrote the day before yesterday. But i told him that you are doing much more for him than he could ever appreciate and that he should appreciate the good things you do and not the bad things. And Arthur Goldberg would call and say the same thing. Johnson is pretty smart. He knows that he cant have everything his way. I think occasionally, he would say that to drew. Brian what would you say to folks, the reason to buy this book, what is the advantage . What do you get out of it . Tyler you get a History Lesson that is fascinating, that is done by a man who was so remarkable, who would remember everything and could put little pieces in context and remember something that he did way before that relates to something that is happening today. And that makes a context that, i think, makes this history of the 1960s is a fascinating history. Look at all the things that were going on. Civil rights and the war in vietnam and the Great Society that johnson was trying to get going. The cold war was up and down. All of those things were happening. And drew put it in a context that makes it so interesting and very readable. And you talk to true drew. You talk to all the key players. You can open that book up to almost any page and find Something Interesting. Brian i am going to do that right now. This is 1969, Winston Churchill has died. Earl warren is being sent as an official representative of the Johnson Administration i think it is the Nixon Administration by that time. Chief Justice Earl Warren says the following he appointed him to the court. Eisenhower is probably the most of his man i know, the chief remarked. he had no concern for other people. When you read this, was that the first time you knew that earl warren felt that way about eisenhower . Tyler yes. It was absolutely the first time i could think of that warren felt that way about eisenhower. Ive heard that eisenhower this was not in the diary, but i had heard that eisenhower told people that the biggest mistake he ever made was appointing warren. Maybe warren heard that. Warren was quite a guy. Brian and your father and mother spent a lot of time with your stepfather and mother spent a lot of time with earl warren and his wife. Tyler yes, a lot of time. They were very close. Brian he would go to the court and meet with him, seek his advice. Tyler he would be out to the farm a lot. One of drews best one of the things he really loved to do was to go out to the farm and get away from the city, but he would take good friends out there. Brian the farm is where . Tyler it is in montgomery county, maryland, not too far from washington. It is quite close. It is on the potomac. It overlooks the potomac river. It is about 16 miles up the potomac from the white house. Brian and you mentioned that you were working in the Johnson Administration. What were your jobs . Tyler i was very lucky. I was the first president ial appointment. He made me assistant postmaster general, a job that i had for several years. And then there was an instance in the diary where drew goes in to see the president about something, and the president is talking about this and that and the other. He is in his pajamas in the lincoln bedroom watching television when drew comes in. He is talking about moyers and then he switches from moyers who is resigning, to be head of newsday, and he said, your stepson tyler is leaving. I got a very nice letter from him. That is smart. He should get out of the government for a while and go practice law. Brian did you do it . Tyler yeah. Brian how long did you practice law . Tyler then he wanted feedback me back and i became chief of protocol for him at the very end of his term. Then i went back to practicing law after that. Brian but you were chief of protocol when your wife was the social secretary to Lyndon Johnson. Tyler thats correct. Brian on the same page of the comment about president eisenhower, the following tyler kay halle, a cleveland halle. Brian if you just piece together in here those kinds of comments about people, you would think that everybody that is in politics is playing to a different rulebook. [laughter] tyler im glad that he didnt endorse that. I think he was right. Why kay halle would say that is interesting. Brian but you didnt edit anything out of the diary. Tyler an awful lot got left out. Some got left out, but not because it was the wrong thing to say. Brian how did you go about getting this volume published, which is 41 years after the first volume . How hard was it . Tyler it was very hard. I had a lot of trouble finding a publisher. I was very thankful that the university of nebraska agreed to publish it. They used their potomac imprint rather than the university of nebraska, but it is the university of nebraska that is publishing the book. Brian and why did they do it . Did they tell you in the end . Tyler no. I wasnt asking any questions. I said, lets go. I didnt think there would be any problem finding a publisher. But that goes to show how little i know about the publishing business, which has changed dramatically since the first volume was published. Brian you have marked up a lot of quotes in your book. Is there anything that you want to pull out of there, that you particularly want to get into this discussion . Tyler i think you are doing great. I wouldnt interrupt you for anything. Brian there is a whole exchange tyler as you can see from this, if we did all of those, you would have to give me a couple more hours. Brian what is it as you are going through with this that interested you the most . Tyler i would ask myself that exact same question. I never got an answer because you can open to any page and there is Something Interesting there. And even though it was 48 years ago, it you know, you read it and you say, gosh, thats fascinating. Brian James Forrestal was secretary of defense and was asked to resign and was a sick man and was put in Bethesda Hospital and then committed suicide, jumping off the 16th floor. What role did drew pearson or do you think that he played in James Forrestals life . Tyler thats a great question. I wish that i could give you some real insight into it. But drew was very despondent about that. He was really worried that he was being accurately accused of making forrestal commit suicide. I dont think that was the case at all. I dont think you can write a column about anybody and say anything and have them commit suicide. Forrestal was a strange fellow. And he got stranger and stranger, and finally began quite literally having hallucinations. So, he was put in Bethesda Hospital. Bethesda naval hospital, it was called then. Where he went off the deep end completely. I think what should have happened is that the military should have taken better care of him. They knew he was sick. Brian here is one last quote. We are about out of time. This is on page 690. It is 1969, sunday, march 9. Brian how would you sum up the way drew pearson felt about the kennedys overall . Tyler drew was the people that drew was really close to and had real affection for, you could tell. I dont think he was close to or had real affection for the kennedys. And it probably goes back to joe kennedy, jacks father, who did some things that drew disapproved of. He admired jack kennedy. But as he told jack kennedy himself, he said, you know, you would never have gotten elected had stevenson put you on the ticket in 1956. You would have been just another defeated Vice President ial candidate and you would never have been able to recover and become president. Im not sure that he was right about that. It was interesting that he would say it. Brian where do they keep the archives of all the columns that were written by drew pearson . Anywhere . Tyler yes. Im glad you asked that. That is very interesting. Anybody that wants to can get them online at american university. American university has them all digitized. You can go online and pull up a column. The first column was november, 1932. And the last column that he wrote was probably july, june or july, 1969. But then jack was writing them and jack continued. Brian and he died on what date again . Tyler september 1, 1969. Brian our guest has been tyler abell, stepson of drew pearson. The book is called washington merrygoround, the drew pearson diaries, 19601969. Published by potomac books which is a function of the university of nebraska press. And the introduction for this book is by Richard Norton smith. Thank you very much for joining us. Tyler there are also very good quotes from different people who admired the book, including bob schaffer and Cokie Roberts and don ritchie. Brian thank you very much. Tyler thank you for having me. I enjoyed it. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us online. Programs are also available as cspan podcast. If you liked in this interview, there are some other programs you might enjoy. Brit hume of fox news. Jack doyle discussing Popular Culture and its influence on politics. And white house Senior Adviser pat you can in talks about Richard Nixon and his path to the white house a end his own inexperience. You can find all these and more on cspan. Org. With congress on holiday recess, the Networks Feature a lineup of prime time programming. Tonight, laura and others. And notable figures who died in 2015. Then a look back at the year in congress. And friday night at 8 00, law activists and journalists examine the prison system into its influence on minorities. On cspan tv tonight, memoirs by activists and a former White House Press secretary. Wednesday night, authors talk about their books on science and technology. Thursday at 8 00 p. M. , discussions on isis and terrorism. On new years day, several of our indepth programs from this year. And on American History tv, the anniversary of the liberation of schmidt. Liberation of auschwitz. And who would be a better president ial model of a candidate today, Calvin Coolidge or Ronald Reagan . And friday night, the playwright and star of the broadway musical, hamilton, receives a special prize. Kevin baron looking ahead to major security threats facing the u. S. , terrorism, Cyber Security and relations with iraq, russia and north korea. Later, e e greenwire Manuel Quinones talks about the top energyrelated stories of 2015. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015]] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] host as 2015 draws a close, the folks have chosen their person of the year. This year it is angela merkel, the chancellor of germany. Number two, according totime time is the head of isis and selfdeclared leader of syria and iraq. And time magazines number three this year, donald trump. A divert list. We will go through the rest of times list, we will go through the rest of them. Who is your person of the year