Madison writes 20 essays in a row. He did that well hamilton was practicing law. Then madison had to run to be a Convention Delegate for ratification. Then hamilton writes 20 in a row. You have this partnership that begins with them working together and then and in these extended solos. It is a very interesting process. Brian lamb when did you get the idea of separating your book into founders. I will ask you to give us a little bit about each one of them and how they relate to madison. Starting with George Washington. David stewart with washington you know that he was the man. He was the Great American hero the Great American leader. Without him, there is no country. And so, when i discovered madisons connection with washington, he was always going to be in a second position. Washington was the out the mail the alpha male. Others in that generation had problems. Madison came to terms with it but always they felt uncomfortable. Madison was able to say i accept that George Washington is a great man, the leader americans looks you, and i can achieve so much if i am working with them. Brian lamb what did the 20 year difference in their age have on their relationship what is the 20 year difference have as an impact on their relationship . David stewart it had an impact. It reinforces the seniority of washington. Create some distance. He has done more and experienced more. With that said, their connection was really quite close. Madison went to mount vernon and stayed there for days at a time. You dont see jefferson doing that or hamilton. That was an especially close relationship. Even when they became clinical adversaries later in the political adversaries later in the presidency, later in the washington area, there is always a warm feeling. Washington tries to make madison his secretary of state. He tries to make him minister to france. He wants to have madison close to him even though they are disagreeing on a lot of policy issues. Brian lamb give us a couple of instances where they disagree. David stewart they disagree on the bank of the United States. That is a huge issue. This is hamiltons way of creating a Financial System for the government. They disagree on that jay treaty. This became a bitter dispute. There was conflict with the britain washington concludes that he has to sign a very unfavorable treaty with great britain. It does not do a lot for the United States, but it ensures peace. The nation is only six years old. Madison is appalled by this. He thinks it is a very unfortunate treaty and our alliance should be much stronger with france. Brian lamb if George Washington and James Madison were standing together, and he looked at them in the flesh, what would you say see . David stewart you with the you would see a much and jeff a much and jeff situation. Washington was a large man. Explored six foot, very robust, natural athlete. Madison is a skinny little guy. Theres arguments about how tall he was. He was not taller than 56. He was always very slender. They have a very different visual impact when they enter a room. Washingtons got the immense stature and self possession. Madison is a bit selfeffacing and you might not even notice it right away. They are very different characters. But they were able to Work Together very well. Brian lamb your first chapter on a persons Alexander Hamilton. Why did you pick him . David stewart largely for chronological reasons. He is partnered with madison his partnership with madison was really in the runup to the convention, and spent the convention itself and the ratification fight. Then they begin to drift apart. So it simply was the first substantive work that was going on. Hamilton is such an extraordinary figure, so full of life and amazing talent and amazing flaws, that i thought it was a great way to start the story. Brian lamb you say Alexander Hamilton was 36 at the Constitutional Convention. David stewart a little younger. Brian lamb James Madison was 32 madison was older . The other way around. If you saw the two of them together, what would you say see . David stewart they were about the same size. It would have made a different impact. Hamilton had a very military demeanor. He stood very erect, he was full of charisma. He was bristling over with energy. When he entered a room, he would take possession of the room. Again, madison is a much quieter character. Even though they are about the same size, they would have a much different impact. Brian lamb lannett all settled when it all settled down, what were the primary differences in their beliefs . David stewart it turns out hamilton believed in a strong central government. Which he never made any secret of before the Constitutional Convention he made it clear. It turned out hamilton was able to take the constitution that was written and create this strong central government, or very close to what he has hope had hoped. Madison was surprised by that. I was interested in that. He hadnt really thought the constitution with support hamiltons vision of a strong central government. When he sees hamilton do this with washingtons support, that is when madison starts to fall away. It starts with the bank of the United States which is a very big fight. It even started a little earlier than that. Over the assumption of state debts but that is when they were able to paper over the problems. Then it continues on, where madison just cant abide the hamiltonian vision of a central government. Brian lamb how did Thomas Jefferson relate to madison . David stewart they were remarkable friends. They were soul mates in a way that none of these others really were. Age difference brian lamb age difference . David stewart jeffersons seven years older. He is a little bit of the same figure, because he was used to being in a position of command. He inherited his fathers estate at 14. Madison does not inherit until 50. Jefferson married young, madison married when he was 43. But they are intellectually and emotionally simpatico. They felt each other was the smartest person they had ever met, except for hamilton may be. They were interested in everything. Serious about everything science, philosophy, language. They knew so much and read so much. They just had so much in common. They come from the same culture. They grew up 30 miles apart in the hills of western virginia. They proved were sounds of large landowners. Both were ions of large landowners. It was a natural match and the most important nonmarital relationship they either had. Brian lamb they both were president , but why is it if you go down to monticello, is enormous and expensive to go in there. They worked on it for years and years. And then you go to where montpelier was, they have done a whole new job on it. Who had the best pr guy . David stewart clearly jefferson became more legendary of the figure. A lot of that had to do with the declaration of independence, i think. A lot of that had to do with his personal qualities. He was a charming fellow. He was a gracious person who made everybody comfortable. He was a more charismatic figure. I think those things, even long after someone is gone, those things carryover. So you simply had a stronger memory of him. Something i am hoping to repair with this book. Also a strange thing happened with montpelier, which the story is that it was purchased by a dupont airheir. She built a second house on top of it. It pretty much erased any memory of madison. It has taken a lot of effort to get it back to where it was. Now you can really see the house madison lived in and build. Brian lamb Thomas Jefferson standing next to James Madison what do you see . David stewart again, youd had difference huge height difference. Jefferson is very tall and madison is a skinny little guy. Brian lamb you said James Madison married when he was 43. When did jefferson loses wife lose his wife . David stewart 1783. Brian lamb how old is he then . David stewart late 30s i would guess. Three surviving daughters. One does not get out of childhood. Brian lamb you allude to this in the book, how many children did he have by Sally Hemmings . David stewart i believe at least four. Three boys and a girl. Brian lamb on the personal side, and this was another chapter, why did you have a whole chapter on Dolly Madison . David stewart because she was so important. She was also a great chance to write about a woman. It was a way to look at madison through a different pair of eyes. As a domestic figure, not as a political or governmental figure. Brian lamb how much difference was their age . David stewart 17 years apart. He was considerably older. What you said is not the image of madison, which is usually a buttoned up bookworm. He was a fun loving guy. He made a lot of jokes. He was known for keeping this dinner table in stitches. They rough housed. There is a wonderful account of dolly putting him on her back and running around the house. They would run races on the front portico. Brian lamb was he that small . David stewart that was the account. She was not a small one in. She was not small. Brian lamb with the two of them, what do you see . David stewart it was commented on that she had an amazonian look. And he was still a skinny little guy. Brian lamb only 100 pounds . David stewart maybe a bit over. Brian lamb ive seen it 52 54, and 56. Why is it a big difference . David stewart i think because people were not measuring him. The folks in montpelier are adamant he was 56. The number you most often see is 54. Or is no official version. The second i can do it he is no taller than 56. Brian lamb james and munro. Why is he also worked a chapter worth a chapter . David stewart he was close to madison and very important to madison. In the war of 1812, that is a difficult time for madison. He is the first war president. He really brought on the war in many respects. But he was not a natural soldier. He had little experience. Monroe added gravitas and grounding. Brian lamb age difference . David Stewart Madison was seven or eight years older. Brian lamb how far did he lived from Thomas Jefferson . David stewart they were all within 50 miles. Munro had grown upmonroe had grown up around there, but he had moved to be closer to jefferson. Brian lamb last one. But put the two of them because each other, what do you see . David stewart mon isr a big guy. He is strapping andoe medicine has not changedmonroe is a big guy. He is strapping, and madison has not changed. Brian lamb i want to show video of montpelier and the dinner table where the madison entertained. Lets show that and listen to it. I want to get you to talk about the end of their lives. [video clip] and invited guests of the madison, if you would be invited, you would be from the dining room into the drawing room. Dolly madison would sit at the head of the table. Her husband, james, would sit at the center. Dolly would direct the conversation and james would be able to engage in an intimate or lively conversation with the people to the immediate right and left. Many important historical figures would be defeated with would be seated with james and Dolly Madison. Thomas jefferson, a close friend, was frequently here. James monroe was here. General lafayette. Henry clay, Margaret SmithDolly Madisons good friend. Once, the Vice President eldridge gerry, offered to do the honors for her. She responded, no, watch with what hes i do it. And he had to admit she did it with unparalleled ease. As if she had been born and educated in versailles. Brian lamb any reaction to what you heard . David stewart i think it is great. It captures two things. One was madison had total confidence in dolly, and he was delighted to have her at the head of the table. He was delighted she was so charismatic. He found it charming. He fell in love with her because of those qualities. He always supported her. The other thing, he really did like not to have the spotlight on him. It was an interesting sound leadership, that he was comfortable at the middle of the table. Brian lamb what were the different jobs that James Madison had in his life . David stewart he starts out in state government. I will skip over that. He becomes a congressional delegate in the 1780s. He goes back into state government, becomes part of the annapolis convention, which leads to the constitutional could mention convention. He is a congressman for eight years and becomes the leader of the congress for the first couple of years of washingtons administration. Then the leader of the opposition. Brian lamb he ran against james monroe . How badly did he beat him . David stewart about 32. He won silently solidly. He had to run hard. He hated campaigning. It was the coldest january virginia had seen in a long time. He even got frustrated frostbite. They did debates with each other. He did a lot of writing to different important people in the district. He was being challenged because of his support for the constitution. It was a bit controversial. That was James Monroes campaign. The constitution needed amending, and therefore that is why he was running against madison. They had been friends, so it was a bit awkward. But it did not seem to change the friendship. They were able to restore their sure friendship. Brian lamb go on with his resume. David stewart after congress he take the few years off. He leads in 1797 to go back to montpelier. He is in the Virginia Assembly for a year or two. Then secretary of state for Thomas Jefferson. Then he runs for president. And whenwins two terms. Then he was retired. Never lost a election. Brian lamb how was how old was he when he went back to montpelier . David stewart when he retired he was about 48. Brian lamb what did he do for the end of his life . David stewart oh im sorry you mean for the end of his life. He was 68. He really left rarely. He spent the rest of the time in montpelier. Brian lamb how old was he when he died . David stewart he died in 1836 at 85. He lived a very good and long life. It was ironic because he was always sickly. Brian lamb we have done a lot here on these president s. The farewell chapter, you go through their Financial Condition and something that you have talked about slavery. I want you to tell us the conditions of the slaves in their lives. First of all, you talk about different times in James Madisons life and Different Things about slavery. David stewart on slavery, madison had no problem understanding that it was wrong. He seemed not to have race presages prejudice. He seemed to relate to black people as people. From whatever evidence we have. He was known to be a relatively gentle master. He did not believe in corporal punishment. But, he had 100 slaves. All of his life. This inconsistency or hypocrisy, ate at him his whole life. I thought there were three phases. The first few years he was relatively comfortable. His first 40 years. He buys land in upstate new york. He talks about not living on the labor of slaves. But that turns out not to be a practical approach. He has this wonderful plantation and obligations to his family. He ends up back at montpelier. Then he spends 20 years in high Government Office here it is to me he sort of puts the whole slavery question out of his mind. He cant, he has slaves all around him, but he doesnt agonize about it. Hes doing so many things. After his retirement, it begins to eat at him again. He has tried to create help create this new republic. A selfgoverning entity that the world has never seen. And he knows slavery is the flaw that can bring it all down. So he is somewhat compulsive and obsessive in trying to figure out a way to get out of to end slavery. He never manages to. He comes up with schemes for buying the slaves out of slavery and sending them all to africa. He felt strongly that they could not live as free blacks in this country because of race residence. Prejudice. He thought maybe they could be sent out west or central america. He did financial calculations. He kept chewing on the issue and fretted about it constantly. He lives into the mid1830s when we have abolitionism growing. Slavery becomes more of a flashpoint in our politics and he could see what was happening. He had seen it as a young man, but he feared it and it turned terrified him. Brian lamb what was his financial situation, and what did Dolly Madison do about the slaves . David Stewart Madison, like many virginia landowners, just ran out of capital. The land of virginia was becoming played out and less productive. It became less valuable because so much new land is opening out west. Prices went down. He lived about this means for a lot of years. He lived above his means for a lot of years. It is not that sympathetic, to be honest, as he lived there he well. He lived really well. He gets to his 80s and cannot pay his bills. So he sells off slaves. Now he has too little land to feed the slaves he has. Then he dies and leaves dolly with the problem. What to do with the slaves and the estate. He is not a businessperson. She is not a businessperson. This is a load she cannot carry. Her son, madisons stepson, is very irresponsible. Hes actually a detriment to getting anything done. As a result, she ends up selling off more slaves. She ultimately has to sell montpelier. Which she says, breaks her heart. When she finally passes, she is 81. 11 years after madison or 12. She still has a couple of slaves and she never did free any of them. Brian lamb reading from your book, his wife died in late september and james monroe, that broke, moved in with his daughter and soninlaw in new york. David stewart yes. James monroe was also always less wealthy than madison or jefferson. He had to sell everything. The auction hammer went down on everything he had, including slaves. Brian lamb how many slaves did he have . David stewart at his peak, 30. Brian lamb Thomas Jefferson . David stewart at the end, he has had about 200 slaves. And of course, monticello he cannot pay the bills either. He leaves his heirs essentially debt, and none of his slaves are free. Brian lamb what did he die of . David stewart i cant tell you anything other than old age. Brian lamb what did james monroe die of . David stewart im afraid its the same answer. They both went into decline. Brian lamb and Alexander Hamilton. We know it he died of. How old was he . And what financial shape was he in . David stewart 48. He was in pretty terrible shape. He had been a very successful lawyer, but he had a great many debts. Which he left for his family. So these people were doing great things in the world, and they were not building fortunes. Brian lamb did he owned slaves . David stewart hamilton did not own slaves. He was an abolitionist in new york. Brian lamb George Washington at the end . David stewart washington had money. He was a good is listening. He was a Good Business person. He was a fine steward of his plantation. He left a great many slaves, and a great many of them were his wifes. He married her when she was a widow. He left in the will that his slaves should be freed when his wife died. That turned out not to be a good situation. It made mrs. Washington very nervous because the slaves had a vested interest in having her die. So she just freed them herself. There was a tradition, of slaves poisoning their masters. That was something she was afraid of. Ironically, madisons grandfather was poisoned by a slave. Brian lamb when you look bad it back at it, and most of them could not financially do right and most of them could not free slaves. When you talk to africanamericans, they say that we were put ethis beginning, behind from the beginning, and we are supposed to be created equal. David stewart the hypocrisy is visible. We have to be honest about it. But we also have to be fair about it. I sometimes wonder if in 200 years, historians will look at us and say, those people were animals. They went to war. And human morality doesnt move in a straight line. But it does change and evolve. Slavery became completely unacceptable. Today it is totally unacceptable. We have to make that judgment, but we also have to understand the culture they were in. It is very hard to swallow because these were rich People Living very well. Better than anybody else was, to be honest. But, they also had a vision of this society. The vision did not include slaves a vision of society that was wonderful and idealistic, and something we still are trying to realize. Brian lamb we first talked when you wrote 1780s that 1787, your first book. Since then, you have written how many books . David stewart three. Impeached, american empire emperor, and a historic novel which deals with the secrets behind the John Wilkes Booth conspiracy. Brian lamb we talked about you being close to several clerks and justices. Lets watch this and you can talk to us about how the whole business of the constitution and your knowledge of history played on this. [video clip] stewart will now conclude the argument. Thank you mr. President. I want to stress two points, which will come up throughout my remarks. They are critical to the case. First, these impeachment charges present a seriously incomplete view of the evidence. You can point to convict on these charges, only if you do not take the trouble to learn the facts. You can vote to convict on these charges, only if you pay no attention to what judge nixon and i figured today. If you you can vote to convict on these charges, only a few listen to but one side of the story. Brian lamb what was your role . David stewart that is the impeachment trial of a judge from mississippi, walter nixon in 1989. I was his defense lawyer. Brian lamb why did you do that . David stewart it was really interesting. Judge nixon had been convicted in a criminal case. He insisted on his innocence. It was a shaky case against him. There was allegation of an underlying crime which he was acquitted of, but he was accused of having lied in a grand jury testimony. It was a second step offense. I thought there was a new justice there, and in justice there, and i thought, you dont find these on the street corner. It was an interesting opportunity. I was fortunate to have that chance. Brian lamb i looked up some statistics about impeachments. Since the beginning of the country, 62 times since 1789 has there been impeachment proceedings instituted in the house. 19 have taken place, 15 federal judges, 13 district judges, once again what supreme court, and 4 others two president s, and one United States senator. Madisons impact on what an impeachment had to be . There seems to be a difference back then about whether high crimes or misdemeanors or less offenses. David stewart impeachment is a subset of madisons whole theory of checks and balances. Madison did not think of checks and balances. Other people understood the idea, but he articulated it in such a powerful way. The notion that different branches of government should have different powers. They should be independent but not completely. They should overlap in some ways, and there should be ways to overpower different branches. And also between state and federal levels. Impeachment is an expression of that, a very powerful one, which gives legislature the ability to either with an executive or judicial officer, to say you have i am eating your duties. You have violated your duties and will be removed from office. It flows very directly from madisons overall conception of what how the republic should be structured. Brian lamb blair is nixon today where is nixon today . David stewart the last time i spoke to him, he was in biloxi mississippi. I think he had retired. He practiced law for some time after this unfortunate episode. Brian lamb this was in 1989. How long did he serve in prison . David stewart the sentence was 20 months. Brian lamb going back to James Madison and some of the earlier things, we have video of the whole issue of the burning of the white house. You talk in the book about the impact of the 1812 war. This is bill steele talking about it. [video clip] they had 22 javelins, which had rags on the end soap in lamp oil. They were lighted and thrown into the house. It burned and burned, until early in the morning. It pretty much put the fire out, when it rained, but it was a big stone box with ashes in the bottom. It was a tremendous jolt to the American People. To have the buildings burned the angriest moment of the war. Although the first lady famously helped save the portrait of washington, dolly and James Madisons reputation in the immediate aftermath of the burning cannot be saved. They were hated after the fire. They were considered terrible cowards for running. Brian lamb do you agree . David stewart that is pretty accurate. I dont think dolly was swept into it. But madison had to crawl back in terms of his reputation. A couple of days after the burning of the buildings in washington, he came back into the city. Some of the citizens since the race were still by the british were still around, and some citizens wanted to give up. Saidmonroe said, if anyone tries, they will be met with a bayonet. They had nothing but militia to opposed the british troops with. Madison actually went to the battlefield and tried to inspire the troops. In his own sort of nonmartial way. It was just a terrible attempts, he did not have the right troops to protect the capital of the country. It will always be a scar on presidency. Brian lamb how long did the war last . David stewart two and a half years. Brian lamb what impact did it have once it was over . David stewart a surprising impact. It was not a popular war in many parts of the country. Many new englanders hated it and opposed it. They were close to secession. But when it ended, part of it was because of Andrew Jacksons wonderful victory at the battle of new orleans. That was a couple of weeks after we learned that the treaty had been signed with britain. It was such a smashing victory that it had americans feeling like they had onewon, which was not true. It ended up being a moment of national unity. And coming out of the war, america still like, we went toe to toe a second time and they did not beat us this time either. It ended up being a very positive experience. Not of course for the soldiers who fell, but the nation as a whole came out feeling quite good about itself here it. Brian lamb when you look at that education of the people you wrote about, how much did they have . David stewart hamilton had some. He went to kings college. Most of them were they had to be selftaught. It is now called columbia university. They had instruction, madison went to college in new jersey. Now princeton. Jefferson went to college of william and mary. In most instances, these were lifelong students. People who read all the time fascinated by the world, by thinkers. Their whole lives were tied up with learning and understanding things better. Brian lamb George Washington and Dolly Madison . David stewart washington had some. He was not the same sort of intellectual type as the others. Dolly had not much formal education, but she liked to read. She liked novels. She didnt much care for philosophy looks james had around. But she was an intelligent woman. Sometimes her letters are made fun of because her spelling can be exotic, but spelling was exotic in those days anyway. Brian lamb in your book in the back, you talk about opportunities for the average person to get online. The founders online. Explain that. How much did you use that . David stewart it is a wonderful thing the National Archives have done. They have taken all of the public versions of the papers i think of six of the founders. Washington, hamilton, madison, adams. Jefferson, and adams. Maybe not all of the papers of five. Each of them has been. Some of the madison ones are not of the. Most of them are up. You can just peruse them. Founders. Org founders online. Org. I did a lot of research in my bathrobe working at home. Going through founders online. One of the things i did was read all of madison papers, about 25,000 writings and letters. Most of them i could read just online. It is a tremendous resource. Brian lamb what separates your book from all of the others written about James Madison . What kind of an angle did you go to make a difference . David stewart what i was trying to do was to show him in the web of people of his time. In particular, to highlight is ability his ability to form partnerships. These are very difficult people. Hamilton and monroe where military guys. He is able to form partnerships and plays a different role at each. He is the consummate aid with washington. With hamilton, he is a peer. With monroe, hes a bit of an older brother. He adapted with each person and can do more as a result. It is a collegial attitude. A willingness to check his ego at the door, focus on the job at hand, whichwe tend to respond emotionally to the great leaders. I think there is a lot to be said for medicines style of leadership madisons style of leadership. And that we can use some of it. Brian lamb here is another historian talking about comparisons. [video clip] madisons problem is, he actually had in his old age he was a great storyteller. He loved to reflect on history. But, he was very much a public man. If you compare him to those around him, jefferson and you could write a series of books called jefferson and, and the blanks you would have would be fairly substantial. Washington has a charismatic status. With hamilton there was a very impressive status. Hamilton is much more of a risk taker. Franklin, like jefferson, was a great cosmopolitan. And john adams was a reading egomaniac. Ravin egomaniac. They all have distinct personalities. Brian lamb i do that to ask you, was john adams a raving egomaniac . David stewart thats a little strong. But there was a volatile quality to adams. Which makes it remarkable he was able to achieve as much as he did. Madison had a remarkable steadiness of disposition. People always commented on it. He was never flustered. John adams was always flustered. Its not easy to be a leader when you have that quality. Brian lamb in all of the time i have had the chance to interview people, when Simon Schuster books come out, i have never seen that dear reader from alice. Everyone knows who alice is. David stewart she is a wonderful editor at Simon Schuster. Brian lamb she says James Madison knows everybody. He was their partner both family and sometimes sparing. Madison didnt use them, but both he and they profited from the relationship. The most interesting was his life dolly. Alice mayhew says the most surprising was she was a real partner. How did you get or why did alice mayhew do this for your book . David stewart i cant explain her behavior in any regard. Im delighted she was able to say such nice things. She may have had some of the reaction i did. When we look at this era, we look at men. It is a tonic to see the world through female eyes. Womens lives were not well recorded from that era. It is something many historians are trying to repair now and trying to improve our understanding of that. I think that is probably a feature of it. Brian lamb you started something called the washington independent review books. Chairman of the board. David stewart a bunch of us did. Brian lamb how did that start and why . David stewart a bunch of us in the washington area, editors and readers, just depressed that look reviews where and disappearing from mainstream media. So we decided it is like a nikki reed anime movie. We would do it ourselves. Mickey rooney movie. We would do it ourselves. We would write reviews every day. We have had rate stuff up there. It is very gratifying. Brian lamb you write this. They named 59 counties and towns after him. More than any other president. He is the only one to have a major avenue in manhattan. Named an entire industry of advertising after that. But still if you ask a lot of people who James Madison was compared to Thomas Jefferson or George Washington, they dont know. Why . David stewart i think it is in part, his personal qualities. I was first attracted to him because i thought of him as a guy who was always there. The annapolis dimension, philadelphia convention, the first congress. The louisiana purchase, the war of 1812. He is always there. But nobody is really paying attention because he is the guy doing the work. He is writing the first draft. Hes figuring out how we get this done. I think that is his nature. To be a doer, not someone who goes into the limelight and takes credit. As i hope we develop a more sophisticated understanding of his contributions, i think they were remarkable. Brian lamb how many years did you practice law . David stewart 25 plus. Brian lamb why did you switch to writing . David stewart i like thing that i loved practicing law and then i didnt. I was ready for the next chapter. Ive been terribly blessed and lucky that ive been able to write books. Brian lamb where do you live . David stewart suburban maryland. Brian lamb how long did the book take you to research and write . David stewart i get impatient and start writing before i finish my research. But it was close to three years. Brian lamb you write that madisons reflections reach far beyond his own career, commenting on an essay addressing the proof of god. He expressed religious doubt. How much doubt . How religious was he . David stewart in that era, they didnt leave a lot of record of their religious feelings. That was on purpose. Madison belonged to mainstream anglican congregations. That, he recorded conversations in recorded conversations that others recorded, that passion refers to a letter where he really recognizes the power and importance of religion for others, but he seems to be at arms length. My sense of the man was that he was not a highly religious figure. At one point, at the end of the war of 1812, he issues the proclamation hailing the end of the war. He says we all need to thank the great disposer of events. It is not god, it is some more abstract concept. I think he was not alone in this. Jefferson was a bit like that as well. Brian lamb what about washington and Dolly Madison and monroe . Alexander hamilton . David stewart hamilton was a much more conventional christian. With dolly, we dont have a lot of attention to that. She did not write about it here we dont have records of that. For the others, washington and james monroe, im not aware of reflection on that. I think it was something they viewed as very personal. Not something to share with the world. I love that moment when aaron burr is on his deathbed a year before madison dies, and some minister comes over and says, it is not too late. You can embrace god. Do you believe . And he said on that, i remain coy. I think he spoke for his generation. They thought that was their business. Brian lamb if you had, three people you could name that had an impact on these men in history like a philosopher, somebody from europe that wrote, who had the most impact on them in the creation of our country . David stewart you know, they were very influenced by the ferment of the 18th century, and even 17th century people like john locke. People like montesquieu. I think madison in particular, probably because he was at princeton, a very presbyterian place, also interest influenced by scottish philosophers like david hume. I think that is where a lot of the ideas come from. Brian lamb as you walk around this town and live in this area, and you think about government and history, two or three things that James Madison what do you say, that is only because of madison . David stewart i think the bill of rights is really the single achievement you can say, but for madison it doesnt happen. So wherever you have freedom of speech, religion, of the supreme court, where those are enforced without madison, those dont happen. Brian lamb in other words, the bill of rights was something he shepherded here it but he wasnt that enthusiastic about it shepherd it. But he wasnt that enthusiastic about it. David stewart yes, when he described it, he said it was not altogether useless. He came out of the ratification experience thinking the nation had to have a bill of rights. He did not think it was that important, but enough people did that he thought he had to get it done. It is one of the qualities of madison that i admire most. If there was a big job, he didnt back off. He didnt kick the can down the road. He took on the day jobs. The big jobs. He took on creating amendments to the constitution that would guarantee individual and state rights. He wrote them, brought them to congress, and pushed them through. Nobody else was going to do that. He also enlisted washingtons support. Of course, Nothing Happened without washingtons support at that time either. He was essential for that. That really is the one thing that was really his. I didnt appreciate going into the project, was he did leave the nation to work 1812. He thought were was important at that moment. He thought war was important for the American People that we , could not take the continuing insults. That we had been taking from the british. Brian lamb have you started another book . David stewart yes, although it has been on the fiction side. A sequel to my novel will deal with the paris peace conference of 1919. Brian lamb our guest has been david stewart, the book is called madisons gift five partnerships that built america. We thank you very much. David stewart thank you. For free transcripts or give us your comments about this program, visit us atqnanda. Org. They are also available as part cast. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] as cspan marks 10 years of compelling conversations on cue and day, here are other programs you might like Bruce Chadwick writes about the murder of one of the signers of the declaration of independence and two political biographers, fred kaplan on John Quincy Adams and amity shales on calvin coolidge. You can search our entire Video Library at www. Cspan. Org. Next, your calls and comments live on washington journal. President obama will speak of the National League of cities conference and will discuss local and federal partnerships. Live at 1 00 p. M. , Bernie Sanders of vermont at the National Press club or it is expected to talk about the upcoming budget floor debate. Tonight, the founder and ceo of media come Communications Corporation on the challenges facing Media Companies and the fallout from the latest fcc decision affecting the internet. I have no doubt this will increase rates to consumers. They will impose all kinds of regulatory fees, additional rental fees, taxes at the local level. I think regulatory utilities in the states we operate will get into the act. I have not found one government that does not want to raise more money. It will give an opportunity to raise more money. Tonight at 8 00 eastern on the communicators. On cspan two. This morning, urban radio White House Correspondent april ryan talks about her book. It examines how modern residents have handled race relations. Later, a wall street journal reporter will discuss proposals to replace the reform will care act and we will take washington journal is next. John good morning it is monday march 9. The house of representatives is out this week but the senate will be on capitol hill with the secretary of state and new secretary of defense are set to testify. The Iran Nuclear Negotiations continue to be a topic of debate with president obama and the Senate Majority leader addressing the subject on sunday shows days after john boehner hosted the israeli prime minister. We are asking our viewers to assess the level of