Transcripts For CSPAN Politics Public Policy Today 20130913

Is white and the victim is black, it is found to be justified in 17 of the cases. Black victim, justified in 17 . Lack shooter, black shooter, justified homicide 1. 4 . States,tand your ground it is justified only by nine percent. ,here stand your ground laws 70 justified. Nonstandard ground states, only nine percent. Here is the other statistic that had me very angry. That wasbi data provided by paul henderson. When an older white man kills a it is cheatedman it is deemed to the file 49 . Man killsolder black a younger white man, it is seen justifiable nine percent of the time. It is not black people feeling sensitive and victimized as we often hear in these debates. A victim. El like these statistics are galling and troubling and why probably most of your black friends and people who care about black people were so devastated after the Trayvon Martin situation. Thecally we felt like government verdict gave a license to kill black people. A piece about how i had been with a bunch of my black friends in a Reading Group and we heard the verdict. I was upset that i felt very safe. I came back down to the greater society, looked at a bunch of oaks and said today not feel like they can shoot me and they are going to get away with it . Ani am a young black man or older black man, im going to feel that more poignantly. Hy is this happened . Two scholars i referenced a lot of this has to do with how black people are perceived. There are signs that is out there that says if you look at my face the association you have is with criminality or aggression. Apparently if you are walking down the street as a black person, people who look up to will associate you with that of an ape. This is verifiable. The part of your brain, im going to go a little bit over, the part of your brain that lights up when you see a snake the same part of your brain of lights up when you see a black person. When someone hears footsteps behind him and there are black kids, he is the he is nervous. This is about the white devils. This has the association we have enough brains with black faces, black men, and the like. It is research that shows that not just it doesnt just happen with that black people. For on a cut and i were in a conference in chicago in april. Our friend showed very where pleasedeo are looking at a simulation of a person who is threatened. The person has a stick and the Police Officers tell the person to stop. When the person is white Police Officers is talk talk talk. And the person is black, the Police Officers unload their the person. This is like standard ground laws. If you are allowed to use deadly force when you feel threatened, and when most feel that when most people feel threatened by a black person showing up, then stand your ground laws are going to result in the loss of black life. Many people in this room feel like they have been stopped for no good reason by police or other people or profiled in stores . Is there any black man who does not feel that has happened to them . These are some of the most distinguished black people youre going to find. Imagine how young boy in a hoodie is going to be treated. Information is what has me pounding my hand in anger on the table. In florida less than 30 of the of justified homicide were armed. Less than 26 of the victims were committing a crime that led to the confrontation. In more than 63 of these cases it was deemed an indisputable opportunity for the attacker to retreat. Facts the homicide was still justified according to the law. Those statistics were born out of a horrible reality with the murder of Trayvon Martin in the standard ground laws have that effect. Once again, on msnbc and other incident happened in florida. Many of us felt that this legalizes a form of lynching against black people. I want to return where i started. It is so important and we are grateful that the aba is taking this on. I feel like we are not out here by ourselves as black folks. There is a larger issue. And that is the judicial system and legal system that black people mainly dont have to. Which i am sure you have heard, says that only 30 of white people were dissatisfied with the zimmerman verdict. 86 of black people were dissatisfied. In twooften told we live different americas and that statistics, though statistics bear that out. Level ofo to another this affiliation and bad feelings black people have of two dayssystem after the state came down texas rushed to pass more restrictive rights laws. We know the Supreme Court basically sanctioned moves that will keep us from voting. The aba, in part, is to give people confidence in the legal system. We dont have confidence in the legal system. We feel that stand your ground laws were used against us, butge zimmerman is free, alexander, who fired a gun in the air because she was being beaten. They were also prosecuted by the same person. As we move forward and out talking to the civil rights commission, you need to be very strategic about what states you go after. It is clear after the Trayvon Martin case peoples continents have been changed peoples consciences have been changed. We have a formidable enemy on this ground on the National Rifle association. We saw very little happened after the sandy hook because the nra is relentless. We hope the aba is as well. One bright light is the fact are using itists to perform in florida are florida to perform in until the standard ground laws are revised. Startedople actually the whole height and consciences of Trayvon Martin. Somebody sent via an email about it and i thought, ok, i know a lot of this goes on. Young people understood this was a problem and they mobilized and got people going. Thank you for having me here. I didnt curse or cry like i thought i might when i was repairing. Preparing i am not an expert in this but i am an expert in being black. Thank you very much. [applause] thank you kindly for your presentation. We appreciate you highlighting the important consideration that the task force has taken to when looking at the standard ground laws. As you mentioned, i am remiss president ntioning the. I would like to acknowledge and thank him for being here. The commissioner is leading the u. S. Commission on civil rights efforts to investigating the potential impact of stand your ground laws on racial and ethnic minorities. Our next speaker is the president of the National Bar Association, which is the Largest Organization of African American attorneys. Patricia is a former staff attorney for the u. S. Security Exchange Commission and also the current general counsel for rican general is 30 American General authority. I am really looking to oversee debt to hearing from her now. I am really looking to hearing from her now. [applause] good morning. Thank you. Patterson, she described and told a lot about the facts that i was going to testify on the and now i am going to offer my testimony to really let you know how the national bar feels about the standard ground laws. Know, theu dont national bar celebrated its 88th anniversary. Many of our missions, we primarily have an administration ofjustice as a protection civil rights of all citizens. We are very very disturbed by the standard ground laws. As you know there have been many andle who have been killed the killers used the free standard ground defense. It wasnt until the Trayvon Martin case that your loss came to national attention. Thats these laws came to national attention. Trayvon martin case that these laws came to national attention. Laws as a license to kill. Mainly because the reason to establish the law is totally subjective. Meaning if a person feels threatened how do you quantified that . Threatened you can just kill someone and say you feel threatened . Caseg the Trayvon Martin there wasnt a stand your ground but instructions were given and the tree testified and the jury testified and made statements afterwards paid afterwards. Interesting no one talked about Trayvon Martins right to stand his ground. George zimmerman followed him and did all these things and then he was attacked or somebody got into an altercation. If you were Walking Around and someone was following you and then approached you, maybe you may want to defend yourself. It never has been considered that Trayvon Martin has had a right to stand his ground. Kindws legally allow of like a bully law. You are going to hurt me so i am going to kill you. So that is totally wrong. Kill you. Going to kill you. So that is totally wrong. We believe the standard ground laws have to be repealed and amended if they are allowed to stand. There are no problems with the selfdefense laws every jurisdiction has. The obligation to retreat is now what is the problem. You dont have an obligation to retreat. You can be like the superhero provoke someone, get them to engage, and say you are afraid for your life so you will shoot them. It is much worse than the lynching that happened earlier in our history. And, more be done than likely, when it is racially between victim and aggressor, if the aggressor is ,hite and the victim is black they are more than likely going to have a justified killing. We believe the civil rights of all people are adversely affected ids standard ground laws. We will do everything that we command,ve to help, or retell these laws and have equal justice. This is a very fortunate thing for all of us. Thats very important thing for all of us. This is very important for all of us. As blackngled out people. Once we are allowed this type of racial profiling and discrimination to occur against black people, it is just a matter of time that it is going to start affecting other people. We have to protect all people. The exact are opposite of getting an allowance to civil liberties. The National Bar Association stands with you. Efforts inyour having these hearings and addressing what policies may come out of the hearings. Thank you very much. [applause] thank you. The next speaker is yolanda whoen yolanda jackson, is the adversity director of the Bar Association of San Francisco. Ms. Jackson is a seasoned litigator, mediator, arbitrator, trainer, and facilitator. She has also served on the board in various legal and professional organizations throughout the court tree throughout the country. Thank you have thank you for coming out so early for dealing with such a confiscated an important topic. I am proud to be here on behalf of the Bar Association of separate cisco, which is 141 years old of San Francisco, which is 141 years old. We have always been involved in controversial issues that are important to preserve equal justice, equality, and adversity, not only in the Legal Profession but in society more broadly. That is why we are here today, to be a part of this hearing. Like to think the aba coalition on racial and ethnic justice. Just by the nature of its name, they are a group that focuses on race and ethnic justice. Thank you for being brave enough to have this conversation on a National Level in front of a mixed crowd and a lot of thought leaders. We will focus on four things. The first being race. We must recognize that is a huge factor in these discussions that we are having. Thesecond will be on unequal application of the laws that exist throughout the country. To make a verybe strong statement that we need to study this problem and not shy away from it. And the fourth is that we need to solve the problem. Those will be the framework that will be the framework for my comments. As you have heard a little bit states hasunited historically had a duty to retreat. That includes a person facing an immediate ainge are immediate danger. What stand your ground laws did was revoked that rudy to retreat that rudy to retreat and replay that duty to retreat. In many states standard ground laws offer immunity from prosecution and in fact a person can avoid trial altogether understand your ground laws. Under stand your ground laws. Arrests can beno thatunless it is proven force was unnecessary. Talk about having to prove a negative. There are 26 days that have either standard ground laws or doctrines. ,ince the Trayvon Martin case as the one that sparked this discussion and the need for this discussion, i think it is important to note that they were the first state to have standard ground laws back in 2005. The impact of these laws has been to send a message to our society that in our communities someone who is armed potentially has the right to use firearms even if there is a way to exit from the situation. Setting a more relaxed standard selfdefense encourages or judgment and even vigilantes him. Eism. En vigilant as eva mentioned, it is important to look at the notion of what is needed to feel threatened when you are analyzing these laws. I think it is also equally important to look at where these standard ground laws apply. It used to be ok that if you protected yourself with force, if you were in your home or in your car in your space. Have alloweds people to respond in deadly force and reaction by taking it to the street. That is where we are seeing a lot of our problems. In 2010, 5 years after the first stand your ground laws were enacted in florida, is to file both homicide i civilians using firearms doubled in states that have standard ground laws. Whereas justifiable homicides remained the same in states without these laws. The top Law Enforcement officers of this country, attorney jerry attorney general eric holder by allowing and encouraging violent situations to escalate in public. Such laws undermine Public Safety. President oh president barack obama said it best. Time to see and encourage the types of altercations and and discursive types of altercations and tragedies we saw in the Trayvon Martin case. The type ofe altercations and tragedies we saw on the Trayvon Martin case. We recognize that many of the problems with standard ground laws stand your ground laws are in how they apply. What actions can we take . Although this is not a practical problem, our recommendations are very practical. First we need to study the problem. Statebystate we need to consider whether certain laws need to be repealed or modified and amended. Review the impact along racial lines, study the problem. Look at various levels where the equallyion has applied or whetheral lines they have a desperate impact on africanamericans or other racial minority groups. This includes reviewing anecdotal outcomes such as the case that eva referenced. Reviewing the impact of these laws on whether or not they increase homicide, and you can call them justifiable homicides if you like. You get the impact they have had on killing. Mandate the gathering of data in order to assess whether these laws have had an increase on justifiable homicide. Conduct a national investigation, have the department of justice or other appropriate u. S. Conventions, such as the commission on civil rights. Thank you for taking a leadership role on that. Rentedry happy that mike out to me before we started our panel this morning that they believe they will be effective because they have subpoena power and they can get the information that they need in order to make the right decisions. We are appropriately modifying stand your ground laws restrict or pretend it or prohibit copyright in South Carolina prohibit extendonsin, it does not to public spaces. Possible modifications would restrict or prohibit where individuals have the right to defend themselves. Finally, where appropriate, repeal standard ground laws in those states where it is found that stand your ground laws led to an increase in homicide or where the application of the laws across racial lines exists. Think you very much for inviting us to speak this morning thank you very much for inviting us to speak this morning. I hope we can get to the core of where the issues are and start to solve the problem. Thank you very much. [applause] thank you for highlighting this very comprehensive plan of action. We will take your comments and suggestions into consideration. Is judge arthur burnett. He is the National Executive director of the national africanamerican drug policy coalition. Judge of themer district of columbias superior court and also a former adjunct professor of law at Catholic University and howard university. Good morning. Morningefore you this after 55 years as a lawyer at the bench 55 years as a lawyer, four of them at the bench. 40 of them at the bench. At Howard Johnsons restaurant, i was suspected of being a ruler, a kenyan at 11 00 at night when i was a bus boy breaking in at 11 00 at night when i was a bus boy. Me to the homeok of the owner first. He said i was the best employee he had. If i had been belligerent or reacted in an oppositional i may not be here today talking to you. I was compliant and i lived to see in other day. See another day. A to ato fraternity at howard university. I was on a Scavenger Hunt at 1 00 in the morning. A friend borrowed a car from his fathers garage. Not take black boys words, even college students, that we were pledge ease were pledgees. Were released into Police Custody until 4 00 in the morning. I tell that story when i talk across the country. Two youngsters not being oppositional or defiant and belligerent. We collaborated with Police Authority. I was in the first general counsel to put a lid back on washington following the assassination of Martin Luther king. Hope i am not biased because of my own practical experiences, but i tell you that i ended up in the Justice Department on the honors program. I ended up being advisor to Barbara Kennedy and monitor the Martin Luther king movement. I try to teach young black boys about how to react to Police Authority across this country. Than 10ears, more years, i served as a prosecutor for the u. S. Attorneys office and Justice Department. Then at age 304i became the first africanamerican United States magistrate judge. Became the first africanamerican United States magistrate judge. I look back and say how many young lack boys died young black boys died who could have had a young couldve have had a promising career . After 10 or 11 years on the superior court i was persuaded to retire to become the judge in resident. To find theon national africanamerican drug policy coalition, to create a conglomerate of latin american organizations of black american organizations working together in unison. Strong,5 organizations representing over one million and criminal Justice Reform, and doing gestures reforms in this country. The issues that concern is for criminal Justice Reform is the discussion today. As a on my 10 years prosecutor, and more as a judge, i have had hundreds of homicide vases come through my bench. All the cases i have dealt with, by the hundreds, this has been adequate. We snuff thatn is ans life, that revocable. I wonder, as a result of this law, which Human Capital we have lost in the people whove been killed. In this trayvon carton case martin case, was this really part of the community . Citizens of this country can vote to put legislators in office, and require fall person juries, with people with life and spaces and back grounds that would understand the negro experience in this country. They could assess the credibility of the witnesses much better than the white witnesses and latina woman who served as a jury on the Trayvon Martin case. Indeed, ive advocated them and we have a new program will quit, that we abolish new program ways ofthat we look at getting rid of the ways that those who would be favorable to black defenders. We need to really question jury compositions in this country. I have taught at two law schools for about 25 years combat i have urge my students to contemplate public interests, and to run to become legislators rated i encourage all the people who can vote to vote. Nothing more important under the american constitution vote. Vote than to the person who gets summoned to jury duty should not try to get out of it, but should serve. Jury duty can protect the life and liberty of individuals. Issues backe when the bill of rights is founded, people do not have a way to check themselves against radical government. The government of the country now raises the question, whether the ability to maintain a National Certification record of those who hold a gun, justifies the loss of life cut life, and the loss of Human Capital in this nation. Been included in the National Medical association, all of these organizations are working together to speak together with a united voice to address not only the issues of stand your ground laws, to change the composition to reflect the true laws of the american public. And to deal with the gun violence issue with reference to National Certification, to make sure that we keep guns out of the hands of those who would deprive the nation of its capital of citizens. Thank you very much. [applause] thank you judge burnett, and i will note that the article that he referenced, a judicial respective on this perspective judicial perspective can be found on page 19 of your packet. Mark, a speaker is supporter of the boys teams at the Sustainability Institute for blackmail achievement and supporting developing networks and policies to further race and gender equity in the areas of health, employment, and justice. Thank you, good morning everyone. Have if it would have known that my picture was going to be plastered up there, i might have given you a different one. [laughter] for inviting me, and hosting this. Policy link is a National Nonprofit research and advocacy supporting economic equity. We are an international enti ty. Focused onifically working on the behalf of low income people and people of color. This issue of stand your ground laws touches at the core of what we work on. I will address my remarks to two specific areas in how we got here, and what happened within the fabric of the landscape. I am not an attorney. Many of the issues that we touch on our legal issues, or are lit related to legal institutions. But, we really do focus on policy advocacy. Want to share a little bit about what i think is happening, and how these standard ground laws have specifically been proliferated across the country. Patterson mentioned paterson characterized it rightly when she said there is so much more in their involvement to share. Nra lobbyist, and their first female president wrote the floor to stand your ground law. After the florida standard ground law was implemented, and it was such a success, they wanted to spread it around the country. Seeking thet, and spread of these standard ground laws, the nra began to partner with the administrative Exchange Council in order to do this. Workder to essentially with the conservative rightwing entity that is specifically and lending a right wing agenda across the country. Policy that model fits within the right wing, or the conservative framework, and n help with legislators help legislators to able but that policy in certain places. These legislators, these candidates fit with these profiles that run for office. It is a huge mechanism, if you will, that the conservatives in this country have used as a tool to advance their agenda. It is one that we need to be very mindful of. About thesehink standard ground laws, and how they began to be advanced in different parts of the country, we really need to think about the political nature of what is happening here. So, according to several news articles, like the washington distancethought to himself from the martin case saying he was not involved in drafting the florida laws, but it meant something different. They described that the different acts throughout the states highlight the introduction and add option of and adoption of the laws. Of floridassage laws, the nra and other conservative groups have worked in many other places to pass these laws. Weere are estimates that have heard varying numbers, from places, including alabama, arizona, indiana, kansas, mississippi, etc. This,e think about all of it is important to note that these are entities that are not necessarily working alone. Theyre working in tandem with corporations, they are working in partnership with others associations such as yourselves. We need a core native strategy and approach in order to repeal them, and bring them down in terms of fostering justice in our society. Advocacyof the current efforts that are underway, there are several things that are happening throughout the country , several bright spots as i like to call them. The commissioners investigation is one of them, so thank you for that. The city council in ann arbor michigan loaded to pass a resolution asking the magnitude again asking the Michigan Legislature to repeal the standard ground laws. Be done within cities, even though these are state laws. The National Bar Association has called a special legislative session in florida in march of 2013 in florida. They worked to3 in other states. 2013 article indicated that the odds of a repeal passing in the states Republicancontrolled Senate would be low. Beyond that, there are civil arets organizations that working to actively deconstruct and reduce its power by calling on regular citizens to stand up thatote against the work alec is doing. To say, this should not happen in our country. Efforts to share, or radically policies that tear at the very social fabric of our country should not be allowed, and institutions that do that should be deconstructed. So, i want to encourage all of mba in, and the aba and particular to actively consider what an agenda might be that extends beyond the sort of legal purview and analysis that you ight traditionally been used to. Couldnt do a legal analysis on the stand your ground laws. This was a political effort. This is a power play on their part, and so i think that is what will what it will take in order to counter that. Thank you. [applause] thank you very much mark. We are going to do a bit of a switch, and have the spader the next speaker come to the deus dais. As our next few speakers come forward, i want to highlight importanthe takeaways. Mark just highlighted it is important to see what policymakers are doing to address the issues concerning the impact of style and your ground laws standard ground laws. Ground laws. To see the impact that they have not only in your community, but also on lack of males who may be impacted by the loss. We also were encouraged to conduct a very comprehensive legal analysis, and also to take into consideration the in. Data that may support the policies that are enacted at the state level. Saideen send oftentimes that social policy should be created by indra cole support, and thought out before it is enacted. I see that our next set of speakers have now sat down, and our first presenter is going to be david mohammed. David is a leader in the field crimeminal justice, prevention combined youth development. He is the ceo of solutions, inc. A firm that provides technical assistance, philanthropic assistance i can in the areas of criminal justice. Coordinatoro the for the statewide coalition on juvenile justice advocates. California alliance for youth and community justice. They do. Good morning. I want to thank you for inviting me to be part of this important discussion in this very important hearing. The tragic murder of Trayvon Martin has sparked wide and needed debate about race, guns, and the proliferation of state policies that have occurred. Obvious. T restate the he was racially profiled, stocks, shot, and killedl. As one of the jurors themselves said, zimmerman got away with murder. Justice in the murder of trayvon because of the socalled stand your ground laws. These laws encourage violence, and have not come about because the citizens of the states in which they have adopted one of them, but because of the injection of big money from the district of gun lobby. Has spent millions of dollars in florida and other states to pass laws that promote guns and violence. Is gun bodily lobby trying to sell more violence. You do not need more conspiracy than that, then to see that they are trying to sell more guns, and trying to spend millions of dollars to pass laws to encourage it. Since the sandy hook shooting and the zimmerman verdict, gun sales have reached incredible proportions around the country, particularly in stand your ground states. There is absolutely no concern for Public Safety, just for the profits and policies of the gun lobby. I want to go a little bit beyond stand your ground in my discussion. I know the reason trayvon was killed was because he was black. Had trayvon and why, he would probably have not been profiled, stocks, and shot. If he had, George Zimmerman would not would be in prison today. There have been some social commentators who say that black americans should focus on the violence in the black community, not on the murder of Trayvon Martin. We must be passionate about and work to stop oath. We must highlight and work to end all violence. Therefore, we do need sensible gun safety legislation. Weve heard a lot about this after sandy hook and several other mass shootings, but they bear repeating. We need universal basque round checks background checks, and waiting periods to get a license. They have no place in the public, and outside of a war zone. Gotthing that has not enough attention, we need to significantly increase the federal research into gun violence. The center for Disease Control has spent a lot of money to violence, and the significantlyto reduce the budget for that resource, and they have been exfo successful. Gunddition, we must pass safety legislation, and the and then address of the gun violence everyday. There remains an epidemic level of shootings in places like oakland and chicago. We need to increase the level of services of support and opportunities for those living in areas of great gun violence. We need to ultimately change these neighborhoods. We must alleviate concentrated poverty and the resulting blight. We need to improve schools, and the quality of education. Developingest in these communities in real, and meaningful ways, so that they haveot places that inferior schools and Liquor Stores in the recorder. We must resource the decadesold trend reverse the decadesold trend of spending billions of dollars on the harmful, wrongful incarceration. We need to work with the families of the interventions that are proven and affective, with families on interventions that are proven and effective. There has been a project called the Million Dollar bloc project which shows these most impoverished neighborhoods with millions and millions of locks millions ofith dollars being spent by the government on incarceration. We need to create jobs, support family, and support infrastructure in all of these , weis was, and if so done would see major improvements . Issive incarceration harmful, ineffective, and is excessively if we will stop racing resources on what does not work, and invest and what does work, we will see significant change and improvement. The challenges that it takes political will. Most of our politicians do not seem to have the will to do the right thing. Thankfully, the market people do. We must marry the will of the people with those who make, and governed the laws and policies and our cities the state, and federal governments. I want to highlight a few things , particularly in california, but for the whole country as well. We need to have a valid n are states that tried asveniles to be adults. We need to put it back in the hands of judges, who will look at the evidence and make the isions in the evidence of make the decisions. The evidence is clear we should not be chair urging young people charging young people as adults. Theres an enormous amount of resources that shows that an course duration in christ rceration decreases the further education, and increases the likelihood of later incarceration. Have the daily carnage that took the life of a 20year old father and his oneyearold son to get his ago in two days ago in oakland. We must intervene in the daily the often cause of it, the racially disproportionate criminal just coalition. Tice i hope we take away some things that weday of action can improve our federal Justice System, and give hope an opportunity in our young men. Thank you. [applause] thank you david. Our next speaker is the District Attorney for the city and county of San Francisco. He is the first latino to hold the office in San Francisco, and is the nations first police chief to become District Attorney. The District Attorney has over 30 years in career Law Enforcement, and have successfully lowered crime rates and all of his decisions, both in lawenforcement and as a District Attorney. He has created three ,roundbreaking initiatives would have been copied across the United States. The neighborhood courts, and the neighborhood prosecution program, and the county level sensing commission to begin addressing the high rates in california. Thank you, and good morning everyone. Your honor. [laughter] a judge in a have room, get us all in line very quickly. There are so many wellinformed speakers, and we cover so much ground. Thatt to begin by saying david just spoke to what i believe is a primary problem here, the unequal allocation of the law. I believe there is a secondary issue that we have not talked a great deal about, and i will continue on it. Guns, andibility of gun blogging, because i have to tell you that the standard ground laws, while they are en in different configurations throughout the years, they are on the books for one way or another for many years. California has eerie similar laws that have been on the books for many years. The difference between what is happening in california and other states at this point ought to be the focus of attention here. It has been the path, the haveey, as these laws become effective, and how theyre being implemented, it has led to not only to the tragic events involving Trayvon Martin, but frankly many other tragic events that we are talking about here today. With who isdo supporting the law, and how the law is actually and lamented implemented. If you look at our California Law, and the essence of it, they are almost indistinguishable. People inonly california not only do not have a duty to retreat, all a back to 1951, but we also have the ability to pursue your alleged attacker, which you do not have an lord. California are a little more lenient than they are in some other places. But the difference is that they were the result of judicial decisions, coming back to common law. While it is true that self did haven common law the duty to retreat, the duty to retreat has been removed by judicial decision. Outcomesot seen the that we are seeing in the other 20 states where we have legislation that was created to result as the result of direct lobbying by the gun industry. If you look at those 20 some states who have the stand your ground laws and they were legislatively implemented, these are the places where we are seeing a very different results. We are seeing, as stated earlier, homicides in the state somewhereup by between seven percent and nine percent. By many speakers earlier, this is also because of the unequal application of the law. Africanamericans are said to be generally impacted more negatively. I think it is important to recognize that it is not so much standard ground law your ground law that has given today,problems we have it is the promotion of guns and our culture in our culture. If you go back decades in california, we have similar laws, but we have outcomes that are very different. I believe that it comes to us to address this issue. I will Say Something i said at the beginning, because it bears repeating. Putting aside the fact that i personally have the convictions that the race and the unequal application of law are really the 500 pound gorilla in the room, but understanding that that is a very obligated position that this group will not be olympics overnight, i want to focus on the second part of it. The part that i think we can have a greater impact on. We need to deal with thoughtful legislation in conjunction with dealing with standard ground laws. We are so did, and we cannot address one without addressing the other. And a legalmoral imperative obligation to continue to raise this issue and continue to talk about it. I do not think it is good enough to say the gun lobby and is so strong we will not be able to deal with the issue. I think we need to continue to deal with the issue because it is so important that we do so. On,e take the gun lobbying and we deal with the issue of stan your ground conjunctively, i think we will have a better result, and that is the reason i am here today. Opportunity for the to be here and there are others who could be to this issue better than i ever could. Thank you very much. [applause] thank you, District Attorney gascon. Is a careerst journalist, over 30 years with the associated press, now the Court Reporter at the San Francisco chronicle. Exam so he the bar is among attorneys in the room and is also scheduled to receive a prestigious award in a few hours. He will be the corecipient of this years award for legal journalism from the american judicial society. Bob, congratulations. [applause] thank you. I want to elaborate a little on the California Law the district was justgascon discussing. I certainly had not been aware, before being encouraged to look the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting, that we had anything like that, but it turns out we do, as a product of the judicial interpretation, i think, of our justifiable homicide law and really goes back to the 19th century. Instruction, 30 470 says, in a case of the defendant who says that he or she acted in self defense because a reasonable injury,f danger, bodily he or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend him or herself and it reasonably necessary to pursue the assailant until the danger or death or Great Bodily Injury has passed, even if safety couldve been achieved by retreating. Been a fixture of california jury instructions since apparently the 19th century. We are not a state where it has been passed by legislation sponsored by the nra. Or by alec. So what are the differences between laura and california post this 2005 legislation . One is that the florida legislation entitles a defendant to a pretrial hearing. Mr. Zimmerman did not avail himself of that, but it is at least possible to go before a judge and get the charges dismissed and basically win immunity from civil litigation. We do not have that here. There is a more practical difference. It is the culture. , shown by the fact that law was passed by legislative action, by lobbying, sends a message to the courts to show great deference, to defendant to claim selfdefense. It is also the availability of guns. In florida, there is very little restriction on the ability to carry concealed weapons in public. In california, there is a great deal of difficulty. We do not know how that will turn out, the challenge to the Second Amendment, but the fact that the stan your ground law in california is littleknown has not had a lot of impact, has not been interpreted, but there it is. When i found out it exists, i try to find out if somebody wanted to do something about it and there was a logical place to ask. , assemblyman from southern california, announced a month ago that he was going to sponsor a resolution to boycott florida, for california to boycott florida on behalf of the black caucus. Until they repealed or made changes in stand your ground. Ifalled his office to see they may want to do something about the california legislation, law. Aam still waiting for response, not surprisingly, because i do not think that subject had come up. It is possible there will be action, but it is getting late in the legislative session. Perhaps this is the sort of symbolic action that is easier to take when the target is 3000 miles away, then it is closer to home where you have to take on the gun lobby. The other thing i wanted to talk about has to do with labels. These laws are called stand your large, and, by and as you can tell, the jury instruction refers to it in those terms. But it is the kind of law that could be described as any number of things. Some are called shoot first laws. Nd your ground appeals to the person it is addressed to, you are asked to put yourself in the position of the defendant, so of course we can identify that. We can stand our ground. The other person is the one that constitutes a threat. This comes up a lot particularly for journalists. Her member the victims bill of 1982. It turns out it makeainly an initiative to it more difficult to challenge illegal searches. How about marseilles law, or jessicas law, or all of these laws named after victims of crime . Really they do not have too much do with the individuals they are named after but largely named by prosecutors to expand prosecution and limit defenses. , forjust saying that journalists in particular, and in the public discussion, it is a good idea to debate how we will refer to these laws. I do not have a substitute for stand your ground, but i want to raise the subject that there could be a more neutral way to describe this. The same thing with the obamacare debate. Do we really want to refer to the federal Health Care Law derisively, or do we want to call that the Affordable Care act . Probably neither one, if we want to describe what these things do. Be an element that we can discuss rather than just your lightly to stand ground. Of course people want to stand our ground. Maybet should stand it should say more about what these laws actually do. Thanks. [applause] thank you very much, bob. Our next speaker is demetrius sheldon, who serves for the city of oakland. He has extensive experience serving government entities. He formally served as the deputy City Attorney for the city of oakland for 11 years and also served as special counsel to the Oakland Police department, and lead counsel and policy advisor to a number of city agencies. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Association, National Bar Association chairperson, members of the task force, and others that have gathered here today, thank you for allowing me this brief opportunity to address you this morning on this issue of most importance. I inc. Entirely i think the this for him. I am demetrius shelton, Administrative Law judge for the state of california. I am a past president of the National Bar Association, former Vice President of the state bar of california, the oldest and largest mandatory Bar Association in the country, past president of the California Association of black lawyers, past president of the houston Bar Association, and member of the 100 black men of america. I come before you this morning with a reflection of many to urge this assembly to join Bar Associations across the nation, other lawyers, judges, legal the s, members of along with the president and attorney general eric holder to call for an immediate review and fix to these broken and failed stand your ground the laws. I submit to you that what ever intent, they are having failed consequences, ones that we must not ignore. Highlighting these problematic laws is the fact that we have a aw in place that has allowed young, innocent child to be unlawfully killed and his murderer set free. Colleagues, we cannot stand for this. As lawyers and lawmakers, representing some of the best and brightest legal minds this nation has to afford, gathered here on this date, august 9, we3, and i emphasize 2013, cannot sit back and ignore our ignorance to this fact and allow such tragedies to continue. These laws must be addressed and fixed and an aggressor cannot find behind these laws. Hide behind these laws. I am not sure that they do, as we already have defense of self defense, then stand your ground loss, as we collectively refer to them, must be amended to fix this glaring loophole. I submit to you that in many states, analysis of these law suggests a do no more than two promote vigilantes and protect the aggressors. It is a stain on their legal history to have such legal in that case of Trayvon Martin, and even more outrageous and telling is where you have cases, as in columbia, South Carolina, where a burglar murders the man whose home he invaded, and his lawyers argue stand your ground as their defense as they said the burglar feared for his life. Surely, this is not what the originators of the doctrine had in mind, but it does stretch the current language. This is not what we as the gatekeepers of justice will stand for. We must put a glaring halt to such a detrimental evolution and application of these laws. Ofave had the privilege meeting and listening to the proud father, the tracy martin, the amazingly strong mother, sabrina fulton, and the gifted brother. And buy themthem in this struggle, as we should all. We should keep them in our prayers. Most parents want their child to leave their mark on the world and go down in history, but not in this way. I ask that we keep them in mind as we analyze this issue. This is real, people. Real time not just textbook or academic debate. I was at the National Bar Association dinner last week when it was announced that trayvons brother announced that he now want to be an attorney and plans to go to law school. As i look directly across to him and felt pride and joy in that moment, and realizing the promise remains and bearing witness to the strong resilience that historically so many have saddened in that not one, but both brothers should be here. Both should be before us displaying their gifts and their promise. Many questioned came to mind at that moment. Two of which were, one, how can pipeline if we do not protect it . Second, what if what happened to Trayvon Martin happened to me or my brother . What if, as a teenager during my many walks to the corner store for a soda pop, candy, someone and that costs, me, and in the end i was left dead for no reason and he was not held responsible. This was yourif child, your loved one, would you want the killer, the aggressor, this vigilante, to walk free . Then ask yourself if you think stand your ground the laws promote justice and fairness. I submit that they do not and assemblede, all of us today, im our varying backgrounds and disciplines, draw together in our belief of the application of the law and send a united message to the members of our legislator, to our congress to fix these broken laws. After we do this with one voice with one message, lets show our respect for every life and fix these laws as we would any law to demonstrate that it does not further justice, equality, and fairness of the law. Colleagues, thank you for your time and consideration of my request. [applause] thank you very much. We are going to do a switch again to bring forward our next speakers. Rs four while the speakers come forward, i would like to recognize one of the Task Force Advisory members who has joined us, professor cynthia lee. If you would stand. [applause] a wellknown expert in the area of criminal law and the author of murder and the reasonable man. A professor at George Washington university and has published several articles on implicit racial bias. The take away from our last group of speakers, they raised important points that i wish to reiterate. Bob encouraged us to think about labels on specific pieces of legislation and how these labels may cause the public to maybe misunderstand how and when laws operate. That is definitely an important point the task force will look at. The other takeaway is to scrutinize whether these laws may promote vigilanteism or aggression in public spaces. So thank you to our last group of speakers. Our first presenter will be dr. Jennifer eberhardt. Dr. Eberhardtard, is an assistant professor of psychology at stanford university. She received her phd in psychology at harvard. She conducts research on racial stay or typing, prejudice, and stigma. Work, shet recent examines how stereotypical associations of black americans may interplay with criminality and can influence visual perception, attention, and memory. She has explored this topic not only with members of the public but also with Law Enforcement agencies, to help them make determinations when they respond to incidents. Dr. Everhart. Thank you for inviting me and thank you for coming. For many decades now, social psychologist has studied the association between blacks and crime. There was a, classic study conducted where they showed people an image of a black man and a white man standing in the middle of a subway car in a discussion. A white man held a razor in his hand. Later in the study when the researchers removed this image from site and asked the study participants to try to remember what it was that they saw, many manhem remembered a black holding a razor. In fact, they described him as brandishing this weapon wildly. Lax ociation between blacks and violence was so strong that it changed their memory of what they saw. In contemporary studies across the country, researchers have shown that blacks are associated with crime, threats, aggression, with violence. Stand your ground laws give inple a broad leeway and determining what constitutes a threat, and how to act upon those perceived threats. Such laws can easily render blacks vulnerable. The association between blacks and threat are not only influences of peoples memories, it can influence what they see, where they look, and how they respond. For example, in my own lab at stanford, we found simply exposing people to black faces facilitates their ability to see weapons. When you bring people into the lab and you show them degraded images of guns on a computer screen, exposing them to black faces before hand helps them to detect those grainy images of guns better. Not only for people who are high in prejudice, this is for people who are low in prejudice. You get the same effects regardless of prejudice level. The association between blackness and threat not only influences weapon detection, it can influence decisions to shoot. In other labs across the country, researchers have examined this in what they call a shoot dont shoot computer simulations. Showe studies, researchers study participants images of black and white People Holding guns and Holding Harmless objects. The participants are asked to press a Computer Keyboard key labeled shoot, if they see a Person Holding a gun, or to press a key labeled dont shoot him if they see the Person Holding a harmless object. Found thathers have people are faster to shoot a black man with guns than they are to shoot white men. They also found that when people make an error on this test, they are more likely to shoot a black person who has no gun than they are to shoot a white person who has no gun. So the association between lax and threat not only influences weapon detection, it also influences use of force. Lab, we found simply prompting people to think about crime can produce this attentional bias that causes people to shift their attention toward black faces in a way from and away from white faces. By simply thinking them getting them to think about crime places black faces under surveillance. Initially we found this effect with college students, but we have also found these affects with Police Officers. Officers think of arresting, capturing, shooting, they are drawn to the blackface. The honorable judge here told us the story earlier this morning, and that inspired me to tell my own. So i want to stop here for a second and talk to you about this. My husband is a law professor at stanford. One year, he was invited to teach a two week class at harvard during the winter break. We went there as a family. Tohusband stayed behind teach this class. I was on the plane going back home to california with my son, who was five years old at the time. Are on the plane and my son looks up and sees this guy and says, that guy looks like daddy. I looked at this guy. Worst of all, the only black guy on the plane. Him and i do not see the resemblance at all. Four inches shorter than my husband, i look at the facial features, no resemblance there. I look at the complexion, no resemblance. I look at his hair. He had long dreadlocks flowing down his back. My husband is bald. [laughter] ok, i am going to confront my son on this. Before i could utter a word, my son up again and says, i hope he does not rob the plane. I looked up and i said what . He said it again, i hope he does not rob the plane. I said, why would you say that . Daddy would not rob the plane. He said, yes, ii looked up and. So i said why would you say that . He looked at me with a sad face and he said, i do not know. I do not know why i said that. I do not know why i was thinking that. We are living with such racial stratification that even a five yearold can tell you what is supposed to happen next. Animus, the racial black Crime Association remains. It creeps in. World,ng how we see the how we act upon it, how we make sense of it. It can also influence what crime policies we see as fair and appropriate. In one study i want to tell you about, i collaborators and i presented people with a crime policy and we asked them whether they supported it. About a Supreme Court case that the court was deciding on at the time, and it was a case that involved sentencing juveniles to life in prison without the possibility of parole. We conducted the study at the wast as the court deciding the issue but before they had actually issued a ruling. We took one of two cases that their lawyers presented in court , took the case of this 14year old named joe sullivan, and ascribed joe sullivan to our participants, and outline the key features of his crime. In fact, we only changed one word in the entire study. We described joe sullivan as a black juvenile defendant, or we described him as a white juvenile defendant. When joe sullivan was described as black, our study participants viewed juvenilesparticipants, is more similar to adults in their culpability. Therefore, they were more inclined to support sending juveniles to prison for life without no possibility of parole. Worde word, one critical lead people to see the person differently. It led them to see the law differently. Absence of laws that constrain the use of force in the service of defense, blacks to draw ourely attention and more likely to be perceived as threatening, more likely to be retaliated against. Can color ourness assessment of the law itself, rendering even our children vulnerable. Thank you. [applause] thank you, dr. Everhart. Our next speaker is john lincoln, a Circuit Court judge with a 12 judicial circuit of florida which covers sarasota, manatee, and desoto counties. He started his career in the area of criminal defense in boston and serves as lead trial counsel in over 50 civil and criminal trials. Thank you very much. I hate to say i am a florida judge given the response. [laughter] i follow that up with a tremendous story. I was at a hotel and the taxi driver drove me over. Accent,hear my boston even though i am in florida now. He goes to the wrong hotel, the westin st. Francis. On the way over, the police pulled him over for speeding. I said, florida judge. [laughter] first of all, i want to thank my fellow floridian resident lee and for asking me to come aboard here. This is difficult stuff here and there are no two ways about it. You take those experiences with you on the bench every single day. It is not easy work. Inave done 11 murder trials my state. This is not easy. It takes a lot of the to do this kind of work. A i think mr. Mohammed made good point earlier when he talked about the political will. Partner back to my law in boston who was frustrated with some of the laws and ended up running for the massachusetts ande of representatives, massachusetts is one of the minority states in the nation where they have 11 appointed judges and 39 are collected. He did tremendously good. He was tremendous in his influence as a legislator. Our hands are tied as judges. Two i like certain laws in the state of florida, yes and no. I have done hearings on the stand your ground law where you have a limited standard because of the preponderance standard, but when i tell you how long it takes to review the evidence in this case, this is not something that can be reduced to a journalist writing something in five sentences. This is detailed information about what were the circumstances involved in the death, what were the circumstances of the use of the weapon, within the confines of the law. Like judge nelson in the zimmerman case, a colleague of mine, about 4000 Circuit Court judges in florida, 18 million citizens. There is a lot going on in florida. In my courtroom, we are making a difference. Every one of those lawyers that comes in front of me, you better be prepared. You better be telling me what is the basis. You say there is immunity for this person. What are the circumstances . Cross examine these people. Lets get to the bottom of this. I understand the enormity of it. The couven sell from oakland makes a good point on this. I see that in my courtroom. You need to understand, we have in ran lawyers that are courtrooms and understand the circumstances. I cannot project my own personal feelings as a Circuit Court judge. I cant do that. So therefore, going to the zimmerman case on the standard nothing fense, look, good is going to happen when you ring a gun to a fight. That is a fight that never should have hatched happened in the first place. T led to horrible tragedy. When i talk to people, and i do all the time, and they give me their feedback, you have a situation where in his mind, he that he he believed may die. Is that an enormous overreaction . Yes. If he didnt have a weapon, Trayvon Martin would be alive. Would he have lost a tooth . Maybe. But Trayvon Martin would be alive. The District Attorney f talked about guns. Thats the problem. I had someone in my courtroom two weeks ago that the case should never have gone to trial, but they elect today go to trial. If you talk to the judges in florida, they will tell you, judge lakin was pretty reasonable. In this particular case, this person was in california, had 10 felony convictions. Came to tampa and was arrested in one year. Then came to sarasota, hes arrested on christmas eve. Shoots six shots into the air on a crowded street. Ton he has the nerve to yell his brother, ill take this one implying that the brother take the shots. When the jury saw his conduct, i was pretty mad about that. At the sentence hearing he was facing 3 to 7 years. I gave him 7 years. You know why . I believe hes going to shoot and kill somebody in the next seven years. Thats what i believe. I have an obligation for lawyers in my courtroom every day, when they come in my courtroom, be prepared. Theres a 50 rule judge lakin has. 50 represent the people of the state of florida. This 50 is constitutional rights. He has an absolute right to a fair trial. That jury will decide the outcome of this case. They will make that decision. Not me. So i just want to be clear in, you know, were not going to demonize the judiciary or the judges. It is our job to do what were handed. The political process, as mr. Mohammed said very eloquently, is the root to resolve these issues. I can tell you, my hands are tied. Do i agree with some of the things going on in this nation . I have some serious trepidation about it. It is very concerning to me. But in the west coast of florida, we call it jimmy buffet landover there. It is a pretty mellow place. In my little part of the world, we do everything we can to protect citizens, and i do it every day. Thank you. [applause] thank you, judge lakein lakin. Our next speaker is legal director for the law to prevent violence. It is a National Law Center that provides Legal Assistance and expertise to legislators speaking to advance objective legally defensible laws to reduce violence. Julie is also a member of the s regulation tion stopping of gun violence. Good morning, everyone. Good morning. I first got involved in the issue of gun violence on july 1, 1993. That was the day of the massacre at 101 california street, which is just a few blocks from here. On that day, a disgruntled former client of the law firm of ttit and martin bought a handgun and drove up the killed and skilled eight people, injured six, and committed suicide in the stairwell. Fortunately i was one of the lucky ones. I didnt known know anyone who was injured or hurt. Since then i have actually become quite close with the families of those people, though. The shooting profoundly affected me both personally and professionally. As leian mentioned, we provide everal services. Wre draft mod we draft model laws. We file amicus briefs with the help of pro bono attorneys across the country. We were aware of stand your ground or we call them shoot first laws, because terminology is important. We were aware of these laws before the Trayvon Martin shooting, but we werent really focusing on them. Once we looked at them, we realized they frustrate Law Enforcement efforts to prosecute criminals, they encourage vigilante behavior, and they deprive victims of recourse. These laws dont exist in a vacuum, however. As District Attorney gascon mentioned earlier, we really need to look at them in the context of other laws. We need to look at them in the context of federal and state gun laws which are extremely weak. The fact is, the u. S. Has the weakest gun laws of all industrialized nations in the world. And we also have the highest rate of gun deaths. Our federal laws are filled with loopholes. The biggest loophole is the private sale loophole thats been in the news over the last six months because of the senates failure to pass a very watered down bill. Under that loophole, federally licensed firearms dealers have to conduct background checks, but individual sellers do not. And you dont need a license to sell guns under federal law. 30 of all purchasers buy guns from unlie unlicensed people. This makes it easy for criminals, mentally ill people, and underaged people to get guns. We also have no trace, which makes it diment difficult to trace crime gun. The federal law pribblets a federal registry of gun owners, and those records are destroyed. We dont ban assault weapons and we have it ammunition, no waiting period, guns are exempt from the gns Consumer Product safety act. That covers all products consumers use. Cigarettes now are covered. So kns are the only product. So you get the ridiculous situation where the federal government can oversee the manufacture of toy guns but not of real guns guns. We also have a federal immunity inslailts gun dealers from their reckless behavior. No other industry is afforded such protection. States, of corks are free to adopt stronger laws, but most have not. In fact, because of the n. R. A. , most state gun laws have gotten significantly weaker in recent decades. Since the 1980s, the gun lobby has successfully pushed nationwide to weaken laws regarding the carrying of concealed weapons in public. The n. R. A. Began pushing shoot first laws in 2005. As other speakers have noted, most states now have those laws. One point i think is really important to make, though, although shootfirst laws threaten Public Safety, it is really the combination of those laws and of weak concealed carry laws that are particularly deadly. As mr. Lincoln just mentioned, if George Zimmerman had not been carrying that gun that night and he was carrying that gun legally Trayvon Martin would still be alive. Fortunately when you look at the big picture, things finally seem to be changing nationwide. The Trayvon Martin and newtown shooting created a cultural shift in the way americans view guns and gun violence. Polling Shows Americans are sick of the bloodshet and they want americans to do something. Polls show 90 of the public support background checks. 90 . 80 of gun owners support bk ground checks. 70 of n. R. A. Members. So the n. R. A. Members are completely out of touch with america and completely out of touch with its own members. California, though, is a great example of what can be done when state adopts strong laws. The state has adopted more than 30 strong laws, which close the most glaring loopholes and adopted many innovative laws. These have also had a huge impact. Between 1993 and 2010, californias death gun rates have dropped by 56 bever, and thats at a 27 higher rate than nationwide. There ismendment so much misinformation about the Second Amendment. When i go to heargs at the state or National Level, proponents of opponents of gun laws say they violate the Second Amendment. I watched the closing arguments in the Trayvon Martin clace, and overall i thought the prosecutors did a pretty decent job. However, in closing arguments, he was saying George Zimmerman had a right to have a gun in public because of the Second Amendment. But thats not what the Supreme Court has said. In a case in 2008, in a narrow ecision, the Supreme Court guaranteed the rights of lawawiding individuals to possess a handgun in the home for selfdefense. That was the extent of its ruling. The court made clear that the Second Amendment did not, and it is consistent with a wide variety of gun laws. That decision, which was a poorly written decision, opened the floodgates to litigation around the world not around the world. Around the country challenging these gun laws. The good news is these challenges have been overwhelmingly unsuccessful. We reviewed over 700 decisions and the court has consistently upheld our nations gun laws, including those restricting the carrying of concealed weapons in public. The bottom line is the Second Amendment doesnt have anything to do with stand your ground or shoot first laws or any other law that does not regard a person possessing a handgun in the home for selfdefense. Strong gun laws are constitutional. They simply require political will. All dea that the n. R. A. Is powerful, is simply a matter of perception. Fortunately that perception is changing. Americans are finally speaking out about this issue and demanding the change that we all deserve. Thank you. [applause] ill note jewely has provided some julie has provided some supplemental information. Our next speaker is from the city and county of San Francisco. Jeff has served on the american Bar Associations Standing Committee on legal aid and indigents. He currently sits on the board of the California Public defenders association, and hes a past board member of the california attorneys for criminal justice and the San Francisco Bar Association. Public defender, jeff bochi adachi. Thank you for inviting me here today. I like talking about the outlines we as a society want to achieve. However, i am probably in the minority in saying that i do not believe that the selfdefense laws should be changed. There is no question that what happened to Trayvon Martin was a horrible, horrible injustice. And it never should have happened. That injut justice, i dont believe, is a roult of selfdefense laws. I believe its a result of race. It is the same racism that causes disparity in every stage of a criminal or juvenile justice proceeding. As public defenders we witness daily the inequities that build at each stage of the criminal proceeding from arrests, profiling, charging by the District Attorney, plea bargaining, deciding what cases proceed to trial, what cases are charged as Death Penalty cases. Bail. Every aspect of the criminal Justice System is grounded in racial bias. That reality means that africanamericans are more likely to be detained, to be searched, to be charged in adult juveniles. Denied generally put at a disadvantage. When you look at the Trayvon Martin case and what happened to him, clearly a case of racial profiling that resulted in murder. Racial profiling that resulted in murder. George zimmerman said Trayvon Martin looks like he is up to no good. That hes on drug or something. He also said that he looks black. He also indicated Trayvon Martin is threatening, even though he had done nothing to threaten him. [beep] punks. Even though Trayvon Martin was on the way home with skits and an ice tea, he was not able to convince zimmerman that he was not a threat. The concept is implicit race. It is insidious throughout the criminal Justice System. People will say day in, day out, im not racist, im not bias. I dont any prejudices, yet their actions speak otherwise. At academic levels, there is racial bias in all of us. If someone sees a threat, implicit bias will increase the threat that they feel. As a result, when someone sees an africanamerican male, they feel that he is a threat simply because hes africanamerican. And they can become overly aggressive to him. This is something they may not of. Me be aware as neighbors testified, they immediately acted to protect George Zimmerman. They surmised his actions were justified and that he acted in selfdefense even out an investigation. They identified more with his predicament than with Trayvon Martin whose bloody body was left on the street. His parents were not contacted for three days. The statements show a selfdefense standyourground narrative. The prosecutors didnt mention race. There was not one prosecutor of color among them. The only mention that i heard of race was that the defense had the strategic idea to have an africanamerican fee female intern sitting at the table to show George Zimmerman was not racist. So if the american Bar Association wants to focus on this problem, we have to eradicate implicit bias and conscious bias within our profession. Unless we do that, were going to continue to see unjust results. Earlier we talked about what the selfdefense law says in california. I just wanted to clarify that. That in california, while its true that you can pursue your attacker if it means that you were save your own life and you can only do that until the there are ed conditions that come with it. You must not be the aggressiveor, you must not strike first, and you must believe that your life is in imminent danger. Believing that someone will attack you is not sufficient justification. You have to believe the deadly force is necessary. You can only use that amount of force which is needed to defend yourself. So what this law does, it allows the person whose life is threatened not to be placed in a situation where you have to retreat if you believe your life is still in danger. So doest danger passes, your right of selfdefense. The reality is implicit violence reas implicit bias is everywhere. Look at the stopandsearch laws and how those have been used in places like new york. Their innocent behavior can be viewed as profound affronts. All of them are not shot down like Trayvon Martin was, they are more feek frequently disciplined more than white classmates, relevant gated to juvenile halls, not hired quickly, fired, or forced to watch as people cross the other side of the street, locking their car doors, or clutching their purses. In addition to increasing our understanding of implicit bias, there is still so much that needs to be done to curtail overt racial injustice. We can start by requiring corporal competency or Law Enforcement and prosecutors to reduce racial profiling. Even public defenders. We have to ensure that people of color have access to qualified, well funded representation. And we have to work to change legislation that unfairly targets minorities. All of these things, in my opinion, are more important than changing selfdefense laws. Thank you. Thank you for your remarks. Our next speaker is professional john powell, the director of the institute for a fair and implicit society. E is also the robert g. Hoff counselors chair of inclusion at the university of lifornia at. He is a well known scholar in the area of race and poverty and hes the autho book entitled racing to justice, transforming our concept of selfand others to build an inclusive society. Professor powell. [applause] i want to join with others in thanking the american Bar Association, a. B. A. , and the Bar Association, and bringing us together for this very important iscussion. Much of what i was going to say has already been said. I want to thank my staff, and particularly elizabeth who is here, who has worked on this in terms of preparing me. Since much has been said, i will not cover everything thats been talked about. Dr. Everhart talked about implicit bias. You have heard some of the his thri history of these laws. I wont dwell on that because i have limited time. What i want to do is cover a ouple things as we go forward. You just heard of the overall issue of race in america and how that impacts what happened to Trayvon Martin. I was reading this morning about new york, the Police Chased him into his house, into his bathroom, he had no weapons, but they shot and killed him, and the police are dropping the charges of murder. The reason is, although new york does not have formal stand your ground laws, the reason s. The police thought he had a weapon. Jennifer already talked about if you are black you are likely to be seen with weapons. He did not have a weapon. So we have this subjective thing, if a person thinks they are in danger, they have a right in many states to actually use deadsly force. So what does it mean in the context of this discussion . First of all, veering from my prepared remarks, so bare with me for a minute. One of the things we looked at, theres a metta study of the words that we use in our society. The 10 Million Words that we use in our lifetime. This is actually robust science. What we find, in this country, the word black the word in this country, the word that most pops up is poverty in association with this word. The next word is dangerous and lazy. Word is so those are the three most salient associations americans have with blacks. These are cultural associations. These are people that are not in a normal sense racist or prejudice. Then we can show both associations have an impact in terms of how we perceive black people, how we judge them, especially under stress. So if we are in a stressful situation, the unconscious is more likely to come on line and perceive how we assess someone. You heard dr. Verhart say, if someone has a gun, if a person is black, we are more likely to see them with a gun. I have two sons. My oldest son is 32 years old. When he was in high school, cell phones were just becoming a big thing. He said, i want a cell phone, too. I want to be cool just like everybody else. I was a little concerned. I did a little research. In that year, when he was about 5 years old, so you can do the math, there had been a number of killings of young black men when Police Stopped them in cars, and a number of times, the police wrongly assumed when they were picking up their cell phone, that they actually had a gun. During that same period, there had not been one killing of a white young man making that mistake. I told my son, no you cant get a cell phone. He was pitsed. He was like why cant i . I havent done anything wrong. Youre black in america. There is an assumption, a deadly perception that youve done something wrong. So think about this. In many of these states and states vary on how they prosecute in stand your ground laws. Part of it is the subjective assumption that your life is in danger. There is a study out. I actually predicted this. That White America has a growing anxiety about race, and particularly about blacks. A studyiety is actually showing race in White America is increasing. Now White America thinks the number one issue with race in america is discrimination against white people. You start with this assumption that white people are already afraid of black people, especially young black men, and then you say, if you are afraid for your life, you have a right o defend yourself. Were halfway there. A black person with a hoody is dangerous. Im already afraid. I think there are a lot of things the a. B. A. Should think about. California is already addressing them in terms of, did you start the fight . Did you start the fight . Did you start the fight and then say, im afraid a black person is going to kill me . Im going to kill him. The stand your ground laws in florida justjustify that. Oddly enough, if Trayvon Martin had a law, he clearly under florida law could have kimmed George Zimmerman. His life was in danger. , and int i want to make its already been made, but these are huge laws. America is afraid of black people. America was afraid of my 15yearold black son. We say to blacks in new york city and men in new york city, you go outside, and the mayor of new york saying, you are dangerous. You havent done anything. What have you done . Youre black. Youre latino, you dont belong. You are not seen as human. And then we pass these laws to institution e alize the fear of White Americans. I want to end with two dwick quick comments. I appreciate the judges con straints. Were all constrained by institutions. Im constrained by the university of california of berkeley. Hes constrained by the equal justice society. We are all we all have constraints. Africa. Lot of work in when south africa was under apartheid. We have to look at these laws. When we look at where these laws are most prevalent, who passed them frankly they are most likely passed with a republican overnor. We have the proliferation of all hose things coming together. So i would say there is an in the l. A. Edrica times saying the number one problem we face in this country, about demographic change is the growing fear of the other. Researchernam, noted at harvard, maybe the most threatening thing in our society is the growing fear about the racial other. We are going to see a lot of bad laws and bad actions unless we deal with this head on. This is partially the work that jennifer and others have done. The discussion not to talk about race actually increases racial anxiety and increases the symbolic race in terms of pushing fosh for slings things like stand your ground laws. Again, i applaud the a. B. A. , and i hope you will take this head on. This is part of a much larger discussion. Thank you. [applause] thank you, professor powell. Unfortunately we are over time. I would like to allow commissioner yaki to come up and make some special remarks, if he would like to do so. Thank you. Thank you for supporting this group. It was the first time we had a bipartisan vote on anything in quite a long time, the stand your ground laws. It is the first investigation that the commission has undertaken probably in decades. The reason i wanted to do this is after the Trayvon Martin shooting, after all the press and attention on stand your ground, i wanted to make sure we understand clearly what was oing on with these laws. I understand, and i think no one can argue the combination of per misive gun laws and stand your ground are a deadly situation for people in this country, especially africanamerican males. The commission has always been the fact finders for congress and other jurisdictions. It did so when it went to the south to investigate the jim crowe laws. Our investigation became the basis for the Civil Rights Act 1964 and the 1965, violence against women. This possibly, with the right help and right information could advise rise to that kind of level in terms of its ability to impact Public Policy debate. And the reason is, as someone mentions, we have the ability to go a little beyond than just what stats are given to you. Ou and i all know that crime reports, that they are only as good as the laws that require the statistics to be reported. The fact of the matter remains, if George Zimmerman had walked free and stayed free as he did the night that he killed Trayvon Martin, that statistic would never have been reported anywhere. There would have been no requirement to go to any data base that we would be able to look at today. We are going to try to go beyond that, under that, and get to the prosecutors and get to the criminal courts, get to the police stations and take a good hard look at how this law has been enforced. Whether or not laws can be neutral on their face, but we all know they can useful in their application. Laws that have that, must be examined, must be reviewed. And with the help of you and all the people who have spoken here out of the moved Public Domain and begin a real enlightened discussion on race that does not have to come in the context of these kinds of tragedies over and over again. Thank you very much. Thank you commissioner yaki. We are going to forego additional Closing Remarks because i believe we are out of time. I would like to take an opportunity to thank all of the speakers that gave presentations. We received a wealth of information and some key areas we will look into further in our assessment of stand your ground laws. I would like to thank all those who attended, and i hope you will continue to follow us on the dialogue of stand your ground laws. With that, the hearing is adjourned. [applause] taking a look at the situation regarding syria, president obama and Vice President biden welcome the amir of kuwait today to discuss regional issues, including syria. The president and the amir offer these brief remarks following that meeting. It is a great pleasure to elcome our friend, the amir of uwait, to the oval office. Kuwait is one of our most important partners in the region. We have a very strong bilateral Defense Agreement as well as working together on a whole range of economic and social and security issues. We have discussed a wide range of issues. Obviously, at the top of the list was the situation in syria. Our two countries are in agreement that the use of chemical weapons that we saw in syria was a criminal act, and that it is absolutely important for the International Community to respond in not only detering the repeated use of chemical getting those eapons outside of syria. I shared with the amir my hope that the negotiations currently taking place between secretary of state kerry and the foreign inister in geneva fair truitt. Interpreter speaking arabic] but i repeated what i said publicly, which is that any agreement needs to be verifyable verifiable and enforceable. [interpreter speaking arabic] that ultimately whats needed for the underlying conflict is a political settlement that allows ordinary syrians to get back to their homes and rebuild and to relieve the enormous suffering thats aking place. Interpreter speaking arabic] and i watcht to express want to express our appreciation to the waiti people for upport of the syrian refugees. We also had an opportunity to discuss other regional issues, for example our continued efforts to to facilitate negotiations between the israelis and the palestinians and arrive at a peace deal in hat part of the world. Interpreter speaking arabic] we appreciated the emirs wisdom in engaging with the government of iraq in helping to improve and create peaceful relations between kuwait and iraq. And we also discussed ways that we can improve the economic process for people in the region in countries like yemen, for example, that are experiencing reat challenges. So we appreciate the strength and itsership of kuwait friendship, and we are looking forward to extensive cooperation in the future. Interpreter speaking arabic] i would like to thank president obama. I am happy for the constructive discussion between myself and president obama which included topics related to our bilateral negotiations where we will use determination to achieve what is the best for the mutual interest of our both countries. We also discussed the continued tention of the two kuwaiti detainees in guantanamo and asked president obama to speed theme process of releasing in conjunction with closing down uantanamo. We also stress our satisfaction with the positive developments related to the kuwaitiiraq relations. We also discussed the subject of the security of the gulf region, and our combined efforts to achieve security, stability, and in this important active region, especially given the current developments in the egion. Additionally weve also discussed the suffering of the Syrian People and the ntinuation of the on going deterioration of the situation in syria and the suffering of the refugees. Also the need for a speedy solution and keep the region free from the danger of war. We also discussed the importance of achieving stability in the egion. Speaking arabic] we also discussed the peace and the importance of focusing on the effort to advance the planned negotiations to create a positive difference in this regard and to include the United States of america in the peace process. Thank you. Thank you very much, everybody. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Heres a look at some of our prime time programming across the cspan networks. Tonight at 8 00 eastern, it is a discussion of the 2008 financial crisis and what lessons have been learned since then. Discussions include barney frank among others. Conyers emocrat john hosts a discussion on bankruptcy. And then on cspan3, a discussion on telemedicine. Discussion owed a from the Intelligence National Security Alliance summit. Well have that entire hearing unday at 10 35 a. M. Eastern. But here is say brief look. So the rugs have been on the ground. They have longterm military contracts there. They have been supplying weapons before, during, and they want to do it after, whatever happens in syria. They really need that warm water port. They really need that warm water port. They have a strategic interest in keeping their footprint in syria. So we should try to eliminate their desire for a bank neff lent peacekeeping mission in the region. They have a strategic motivation. By the way, they have been providing intelligence packages, and it is in their interests to probably make sure, if they are the first people that might show up at a chemical sorge facility, i think the russians want to be the first ones in the door. I imagine there is some writing in there that might cause them some concern. Im just guessing. It can work, and our interests have to align, but we have to push our interests to align. I believe we need a credible threat. Thats why they said they would not allow that to happen in the United Nations. They would take out chapter 7. They would allow United Nations military threat if we could not get a handle on these military weapons. They got a they had time. Ey needed assad to have more time. This gives them time to dig in, to engage in denial and deception campaigns on the ground in their chemical weapons mpaign, and it sends a dangerous message to the opposition that hes going to be there for a length of time. It is unacceptable. I hope it works. I just dont think it will work unless we have a credibility threat to say, guess what . If this negotiation doesnt go well, we have a whole other set of options, and you are not going to like any of them. Without that, i think this becomes a game of taking four months to meet, taking another four months, and another six months to decide who gets to go in to syria. That, i dont think, is helpful to whats happening on the ground. Do you agree there needs to be the credibility threat of military force . Without a doubt. We are here because of the threat of military force. When the opposition was starting to gain momentum, that is when russia, basically, wanted us to come to the table and see what we could work out. Why did russia do this . , in my first thing opinion, it benefits russia. They know they are on the wrong side of the issue. Especially when it comes to chemical weapons. Also their interests in the middle east. Thats the only jurisdiction that really works with russia. Then when we got in the game, things changed. They at that point said, we dont need were winning. That is why we decided to coordinate. No boots on the ground. Being the quarterback to help the opposition and other allies to help them somehow change the tide. Our goal then was to get russia back to the table. Then we are in the position i think the president made the right decision. I think the only leverage we have there are with the players that are forced. Assad killed 1,000 of his people. Women and children. m surprised at assad. Ive met with him. Es a low key on technician optician, trained in england. If this is a stalling tactic, we have to continue on with the threat of force or nothing is going to happen. Also, we have to verify with the people that are going to go in the country and how is that going to happen . Thats going to be a tough situation. The country is still at war. The people will check to see where the weapons are. Are they going to be safe . These are things we have to deal with. Thats a portion of an event looking at the Intelligence Community and National Security issues. You can see that entire program this sunday morning at 10 35 eastern right here on cspan. Looking at some of the other programming this weekend, earlier this week, house and Senate Leaders pothumously awarded the medical of honor to the four girls that died in a irmingham bombing. And more coverage from Vice President joe biden speaking at the tom harkin steak fry. 3 00 s at 3 clock astern here on cspan. Love, death, and money. These are the three main human concerns. We are all keen students of love. Interested in theory or practice since then we have brought you the top books and authors. More than 9,000 authors have appeared on book tv, including president s. I wanted to give the reader e chance to understand the process by which i made decisions, the environment in which i made decisions, the people i listened to as i made decisions. This is not an attempt to rewrite history. It is not an attempt to fashion a legacy. It is an attempt to be a part of the historical narrative. Also Supreme Court justices. Every single justice on the court has a passion and a love r the constitution and our country that is equal to mine, then you know that if you accept that as an operating truth, which it is, you understand that you can degree. And and nobel prize winners. What is interesting to me is the negotiation of a moral position. Love somebody and respect yourself. All of that is reduced, simplified negotiations. The philosophers have spent their lifetime trying to imagine what it is like to live a moral life. What morality is, what responsibility is. We visited book fairs and vest vals around the country. Book tv is live around the l. A. Times from the campus of ucla in west los angeles. There is our signature programming in depth each month. If you say to eye child almost anywhere in this country, ive been to schools all over the country, once upon a time the child will pause, but then you better cash the check. You better have more to say after that. But that phrase is still magical. My father, his job has been to be press atache in belgrade. My mother wanted me to be born in prague where her mother was. So i was born in prague, and we went back to belgrade. Then my father was recalled. He was in czechoslovakia when the nazis marched in on march 15, 1939. Since 1938, book tv has shown over 40 hours of programming, and it is the only National Television network devoted exclusively to nonnix books. Throughout the fall were marking 16 years of book tv on cspan2. The u. S. Conference of mayors commemorated the 50th anniversary of the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in birmingham, alabama, by holding a zpugs on thursday. In this part of the conference, philadelphia mayor michael nutter, new Orleans Mitch landreau discuss the Civil Rights Movement and Economic Justice issues. It was moderated by sacramento mayor Kevin Johnson. A quick note, this coming tv will be beginning programming marking the event. The program will begin at 11 00 a. M. Eastern. I want to thank all the mayors and my colleagues who are in the audience that flew in from around the country to be a part of this o. Owe indication. As most of you know, the mayors are a little different than what happens in washington. There is a lot of bickering and participate sanship. Partisanship. We are not about votes. We are about getting things done and creating jobs. We look at ourselves as leaders. There are books being written about today as it relates to metropolitan area and the impact mayors have around the country. We are not going to wait for washington to solve all our problems. We want to lead by example. It is the bottom up. We believe thats our strength in the u. S. Conference of mayors. So at this point in time i would like to introduce our panelists, and then ill ask each panelist to open up with a threeminute opening statement. I will ask the first question, and then we will open up questions to the audsence. Audience. Mayors, i know we have a lot to say. Im going to ask you to say a lot in a short period of time so we can get through as many panelists as possible. Our first panel will be on reaching Economic Justice. 50 years ago after birmingham and the march on washington for jobs and freedom, much progress has been made. Most of the demands for Economic Justice have yet to be realized. Africanamericans are three times as likely to live in poverty and twice as likely to be unemployed as their white counterparts. The minimum wage is still not a living wage. Protesters around the country are making this point. By wage adjustment, the minimum mum wage is actually lower than it was in 1963. Our schools are failing to provide students with the tools they need to transcend their social position. The data on income, wealth, and associate mobility cannot be any clearer. Consistent over the past three years, white families earn about 2 to every dollar that black and hispanic families earn. In 2008, white families were about four times as wealthy as nonwhite families. This is in the 21st century. Since the resession, white families are now about 6 times as wealthy, and black children are twice as likely to remain quarrtile asbottom white families in the same income levels. President obama said upward mobility is part and parcel of who we are as americans and that is what has been eroding. If we dont do anything, the growth will be slower than it should be. Unemployment will not go down as fast as it should. Income inequality will continue to rise. This will not expect except. This is not the future that we except. Accept. We have mayor michael nutter, who is in his second term as the president i guess you can be the president in philadelphia. The fifthlargest city. He has worked tirelessly for he is thetal justice. Past president of this organization. I also want to introduce mayor paul saw one sauglin. Atwas first elected mayor the young age of 27 and he has not aged much since then. He served until 1979. He tried to find other work and it brought him out of retirement, then was mayor again from 1999 through 1997 and now he is back as the mayor again in madison. Joins us with a wealth of experience in both public and private sectors. She was sworn in as the mayor of 2010, in january targeting smart Growth Strategies as it relates to Economic Development in her city. Flying, probably the furthest to be with us today. And last but not least is mayor landrieu. Elected in february 2010 with the mandate by getting elected by 67 of the vote. Next day, the saints would win the super bowl. He says they will win it again. Friends, my friend is not only doing great things in the remarkabled but the recovery that new orleans has experienced under his leadership has been amazing. At this time i would like each panelist to open up on a statement as it relates to Economic Justice and again, i ask each of you to take three minutes or so, when you go a little bit longer, someone in the audience will say, 15 seconds. I would like our past president to talk about leveraging our body around Economic Justice. Thank you to all of our panelist, and everyone in the audience. I was wanting to pick up in an area where mayor johnson was just a few minutes ago, to talk about the issue of poverty. When we think about where we are right now, in the 16th Street Baptist Church, two weeks ago was the 50th anniversary of the march on washington for jobs and freedom, two weeks later, we are here. That effort continues to this day, and we still seek jobs and freedom, here in the United States of america. The dream lives on and the work continues. Given have thought, given the challenges we face, i am not sure that anyone would an african, american would be elected president of the United States of america. It gives you a sense of the continuum of where we have been and how far that we have come. I want to talk about the issue of poverty across the United States of america and the city of philadelphia. Unfortunately we have a very high poverty rate in philadelphia, the highest of the top 10 cities in the country. Poverty has intangible costs the lives and opportunity. The less money spent in the economy, the less Economic Opportunity for individuals who suffer. As well as dealing with issues of literacy, education, and upward mobility. We put out a plan called shared prosperity philadelphia, looking at the funding that comes from state and federal government and realized we are spending 700 million from different agencies and everyone believes that they are doing their work and doing it well, but not coordinating with the other agencies. Having put all that funding under one umbrella, creating a new office of Community Empowerment and opportunity, to better manage the resources that we have to set certain goals and benchmarks, on how we adjust the issue of poverty in philadelphia. And at the same time focusing on the true 21st century civil rights issue, the issue of education and educational access. Fightingago they were for access to a job or a lunch counter, to be able to live wherever they wanted or love whoever they wanted, but today we fight for economic access to the internet and a great education and funding education properly across the United States of america. A common fight in philadelphia. Education will take people out of poverty. People out of the resources of our country and the world. This is to make sure that the 500,000 people who are not reading at a proper level today, get the access to resources that they need. We have 77 Computing Centers across the city of philadelphia using federal funding. Access foronomic those young people and those who are young at heart. How this affects people this is an issue we have to focus on. We have to grapple with the issue of poverty and education and how those issues are tied together and that really is the march that still needs to take place 50 years later. Thank you. We will have a chance to come back to some of the things he talked about. At this time i would like mayor to get some thoughts as well. I think it is important to focus on what he just repeated, over and over. Access. If we are going to achieve justice and equality, there must be access. When those young men and women sat at the lunchroom counter, they were not just talking about access to a hamburger or a soda. They were talking about access to a job, managing and owning the lunchroom. In, and rosa parks rode the bus, she was not just talking about the bus ride. About drivingg the bus and working for the company that manufactures the bus, managing the bus company, owning the bus company. Those young men and women entered those schoolhouses, they werent just talking about being there as students. They were talking about being there as teachers and superintendents, chancellors and president s of universities. That is the failure of the past 50 years. We have opened some of the doors, but have not developed the access to the systems that will create true Economic Justice. As we have looked at the successes and failures of the years, there are five areas andh we need collaboration, we need effort on the local and National Level. This is a learning process. Whether this is education and job training. Secondly, this is transportation. If you cant get to your job from here, the job does no good. There has to be quality childcare. Themselves, to parents who are both working, cannot provide the childcare inside the home and be at the job at the same time. We know the importance of quality childcare. There must be health care. We cant have children in this with what i saw in my own classroom, sitting at the very front because they cant see the board. They can see what is written on the walls. Lastly, there has to be housing. Without a fundamental place to go there is no opportunity for a family to be coparent and to again, get access to these systems. Along with the access, we need trust. This is a great challenge for the nation and the world. It has been a very difficult road that we have gone through over the last 50 years. There has been tremendous success. Just as there has been tremendous success, there has been tremendous disappointment. Our job not in the next 50 years but immediately, is to deal with those disappointments and eradicate them. I would love for strickland thoughts on this. It is an honor to be here in this historic church. A member becomes we the people, of the United States, in order to form a more Perfect Union establish justice, ensure the mastic tranquility and provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and procure the blessings of liberty and prosperity through ordained and established constitution of the United States of america. This is interesting. This is a legacy that is still felt today. We expelled Chinese People and interned japanese americans. We have to fight for civil rights for africanamericans and many people, and the right to vote and we have great debates about immigration reform. This country has a very interesting history with justice in general. At the local level, we have the opportunity to work directly to do some things. We cant control the decisions of every building we can set policies for Economic Development and have rules in place to ensure that people who are contracted by the government are a true reflection of the community that they serve. Stande the opportunity to up for policies that affect Economic Justice. Young unmarried mothers are more likely to end up in poverty and so are their children. When you take away the right to choose you may confine them to a life of poverty. What exactly is the definition of Economic Justice . In 1964 we had the Civil Rights Movement. This was about rights and freedom, but you can have the job you can have freedom and still be in chains. It is important to look at the things that help people become empowered. There is a debate in my home city about eight sick leave. The Labor Movement is moving forward and trying to recruit numbers that dont belong to unions. As Union Membership goes down every year the middle class suffers in america. There is a model class that is strong and vibrant. When i talk to my friends in the Business Community i say, if you want your business to succeed you have to have the consumer defined power. We all do better when we all do better. Gains butde great there is a lot of work to do. The Unemployment Rate is disproportionately higher for people of color. The incarceration rate is disproportionately higher. The Educational Achievement gap this is good and well that we have a major hangover from the institution of slavery and other decisions we have made. In a bipartisan manner because we are about getting things done. Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. Mary Landrieu Landrieu . It is aweinspiring to be sitting here. I am mindful of adopting the confidence of all of the mayors appear. He spoke about health care and education. They talked about child care and other issues. They have been part of the institutions. Aid and comfort and support, so human beings can enjoy the fruits of life that are deteriorating in the United States of america. Shadow of two weeks ago when president obama stood on the steps of the lincoln shoulders ofthe dr. King in the shadows of Abraham Lincoln, who was there on the shoulders of Frederick Douglass and Harriet Beecher stowe, we have to acknowledge that we have come a long way in this nation, it is quite amazing. See the number of mayors and elected officials, scientists and doctors and lawyers that are physical how far weons of have come. We have to take a moment to recognize we have a long wait to go. The first thing that has to be said, worse fully, if people in america think that we have moved beyond the issue of race, they are wrong. President clinton said we have a long way home and a long way to go. The one that rises to the level if you arey struggling to survive from day to day. Rights movement assumes that people would be alive. They struggle for better education and a better job. This is undermining the ability to get to the next day. That is one thing that we have lost our way on. Ago, weis said not long did not get beat on the way to selma. So that people could kill each other. There is too much of that going on in america. This is an issue we have to address. As we speak about the moral responsibility of the United States abroad, we dont always speak about the moral responsibility at home to make sure that each individual has the access to the essential freedoms, to walk the streets safely without fear. This and weabout commemorate the taking of their lives we may forget london samuels, who was shot last week. Gales, whoet arabian was shot the next day, or jeremy kalman, who was in his grandmothers arms when he was shot. With a number of victims before the stroke of midnight tonight. Issue,u speak to that you talk about dropout rates and poverty. Babies having babies and the difficult issues we have to consider the unfinished work of lincoln, and Martin Luther king, the unfinished work of this nation. Strive to form that more Perfect Union, we have to admit there is a long way to go but we wont get there if we dont talk about the issues. That is what we do. Do tank, not a think tank. That is part of that aspirational place called the more Perfect Union. I will start with you. They talk to us but Economic Justice. This is part of the request first. Ago,ere there a week or so on the steps of the lincoln memorial. Prior to that you had president carter and president clinton, you had and the young, and all of these legends. You were you feeling as watch that take place. That the mayorrm mentioned. This was aweinspiring. That the realization trying to think back 50 years, i was six years old. Sixyearolds are not thinking about not think about growing up to be the mayor one day. But this happened. This is a reminder of what Public Service is all about. The gifts thatze we have been given. Have, thethat we inspiration has been provided. The example. The mayor spoke about they satan john lewis, at lunch counters, not just to this is about dignity, and respect, and about the signs the iconic signs we would see all the time. I am a man. This is about human dignity. That is what this work is all about. I am never really satisfied but i appreciate haynes. As long as we have the homicide rate in the United States that the literacy rate. Every possible indicator. Other people of color at the bottom. On the bad sides and at the top and especially black men. The awesomeness of the moment and also a reminder that when we get back home, there is more work to be done. This as awith nation, what is the Poverty Reduction plan. What is the anticrime strategy. What will we do to raise literacy rates and lower the Unemployment Rate. How many lives would be improved, if we were able to put those resources together. We cannot solve all of our problems by ourselves. This is where state and National Government have really had to be partners with. Mayor strickland, i will ask you a quick question as well. In this church there was a bombing, for little girls. There is often a story that people dont remember, but there were survivors as well. Noty did those did only do those four little girls and their spirits live on, there was a possible fifth who can who is still living in birmingham. What is your perspective as a woman as it relates to the four little girls who streams were snuffed out but their memories, and their spirit lives on . How has this motivated you with what you do. There is nothing more devastating than imagining children dying. There were parents who raised these young girls. Profound,d, this is but also this inspires us. There was a time here that was not our shining hour but we have to let their memories live on. Here in theng church today and this is very important. We have what could have been possible for the young girls have they lived. What would their lives be like today. Understanding that no life is more precious than the life of a child. There is nothing more devastating than a parent having to lose a child. On education and education reform we have to understand that every successful generation must do better. It is the responsibility of leaders to ensure that they do better. I have one question historically as well. This movement is not just about africanamericans or those left on the sidelines. We are working to get different sectors together. What is the responsibility as it should be with the Civil Rights Movement as we stand here today. It is not enough to say that im a person of goodwill. We have to learn that there is a i commend thed company that buys the advertisements for the banquets, by a table, at the annual dinner. We have to ask a more profound question. When we walked through the halls of your company, and we went into the offices, do we see a workforce that is not reflective of the larger community. Not reflective in regards to race and gender, to religion, to the diverse ethnic communities, within your city. I like ms and maybe this is crass, i liken it to this. If every morning you were to wake up in your city and there were millions of dollars of gold in the city streets. Would you not be foolish to let it lay there . Would you be better off picking it up and utilizing an economic resource. Well, when we look at the cities with tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of men and women, not just young, i am saying of all ages, who are not participating in the workforce. Limiting those millions of dollars to our economy that they would contribute . Good enough to say i am a person of goodwill. Decisions,ion and that is the only way that we will reach the next level, because right now, there is a significant number of americans who think that we are out of the recession. The stock market is hitting new records, for much of white, middleclass america. Themorst days are behind but we have cities in the country where africanamericans and latinos, asians are still at 2530 unemployment. Unacceptable and i dont know what else can be said. The last question and then we iu. L jump, for mayor landre we talk about the margin the 16th street bombings. Bloody it took place on mobile,montgomery and you have a unique perspective. Such ather played historic role, as it relates to civil rights. You have interacted with a peaceful, different persuasion. What is your sentiment as you reflect back on where we are, from a race standpoint, and from the historical standpoint with the march on washington. I looked back at some old papers. I was just born and in my mothers arms, when my father, who was one of 105 legislators voted against the segregation package of jimmy davis. Life inived my entire this space, a wonderful city where this was formed, many years ago but unfortunately, aght across the street where little boy was shot. This was about making sure that africanamericans had a quality but this was not just african about if theis was United States of america was going to live up to its and the larger message is that some americans go where all of us go. Indivisible,tion, and that word was written for a purpose. What it means is that we are in it strictly down with each other. If they dont take responsibility for availability, health care or whatever, it does not allow them to be productive, giving citizens, then they are not. So as paul said, i think it is beautifully stated, would you really walk by a spot of gold on the street and knock pick it up . And how wasteful is it . And i want to make a distinction. Where is our national. He didnt say federal, he said national. Those are different things. This is not about the mayors going to the federal government saying solve our problem for us. But what it is about is those of us that have the great pleasure of serving people in the city saying where is our National Purpose and our commitment to make sure that we as a nation are strong . And this is not just a domestic issue. It is a National Security issue. You have people like richard haas who was a National Security advisor for many president s that were interested in being abroad that has post late that had we really cannot be strong abroad if were not strong at home. And it is a worthy question to ask at this particular point in time as we contemplate along with the president what our actions are going to be on an International Front bl the United States of america has done what is necessary to be strong at home. Because the strength of this count vi built on the foundation of the value and strength of each american citizen. So in the city of new orleans then, if 47 of the young African American men between 16 and 32 are not employed, or they have dropped out of school, or they are not in a constructive place, the question then gets to be, how important is that weak link to the country . And i would say that it is very strong. And i would finally say this. That as elected officials, we dont hear the word poverty much. In the debate. We have to grow a middle class. The middle class is really the basis of the country. But for somebody to get to the middle class, they have to be someplace else. And that someplace else is poverty and there has to be a specific way to come up with a plan to say, what are the specific steps . What is the pathway to prosperity . Is it a better relationship between the federal assets and the state assets and the city assets . Thats part of it. Is it corporations really begin to understand and put their money where their mouth is and making sure that their employee ranks reflect the community . Is it a better relationship between primary and secondary education, Early Childhood education . Job training . Its all of the above but it has to be purposeful and thoughtful and moving to a specific target that the nation sets for itself. Because thats what we think is in the best interest of the country. Thanks, mayor. So now that were warmed up and on fire and ready to go, mayor nutter, im going to have you build on a little bit of what mayor land rue talked about. You talked about in your open remarks poverty. And i heard you make the connection of poverty and Youth Violence and limited opportunities and then those who are disproportionately incarcerated and then when they come out talk a little bit about what you are doing in your city. Because you have a unique perspective. And i think philadelphia has what i would like to think as a National Example of what cities should be doing. Thank you. Ive said a number of times, certainly in philadelphia and some other places, to pick up on where mayor land rue was. Education should be considered part of a National Defense of the United States of america. The military and our might is incredible. T we will win the battle for freedom and justice based on a well educated population. That smart folks figure out a way to take care of themselves. And with every respect to the military, theyre not having bake sales to get the tools and quipment they need to do the job we asked them to do. Many of us who flew in love the tsa, wonderful organization, wants to know where is the tsa for Walking Around my neighborhood. Yesterday we recognized the 12th anniversary of the most horrific attack on the United States of america since pearl harbor. We have attacked the issue of International Terrorism and the security of the United States at an unprecedented level, created an entirely new agency, a cabinet position, funded it, 60,000 people work there, an 8 billion budget because we want to be safe flying around the United States of america. And i applaud that. And i do feel secure. We flew yesterday. That same level of commitment and focus on the education of our young people on helping those who have made a mistake. We are here in this historic church. And so if there is not an opportunity for a Second Chance or to ask forgiveness here in this church, what kind of americans are we . I dont know a person who has not needed a Second Chance at some point in time. So if you have very few skills, didnt graduate from high school, have not really worked at a fulltime job, do something wrong, pay your debt to society, and come out, with the same bad friends the same lack of skills, the same lack of education, the same lack of job opportunities, and no one will give you a job no matter how many doors you knock on, why would we expect a different outcome for that person . The number one indication for whether someone will return to prison or not is whether they get a job within the first three months of their release. So we have spent a lot of time focused on i dont use the term ex faunders. I talk about returning citizens. We do not talk about someone who has had a drugalcohol problem an ex alcoholic. We say theyre in recovery. They paid their debt to society. We had a job fair for returning citizens in philadelphia. , 2500 ople signed up folks showed up. 2500 people showed up for a job fair . For a job fair. All for folks who had a previous criminal record. We had 100 employers there. They nude the population they would be addressing. Folks twoont work. They want to take care of themselves. They recognize that there is dignity in work. They dont want to be out on the street corners. But if we dont provide the alternative thats where well be. You dont have to take a test to stand out on the street corner. But there are no benefits that go with that. And so poverty, crime, education, literacy, they are all tied together. That is the way that we will move our cities forward. But more importantly, its about Human Capital. Its about investing in people. And so as mayors and through the conference, we fight these battles at the National Level. I do not understand i will be partisan for a moment. I do not understand why the House Republicans would cut the cdbg budget by 50 . I dont understand why we dont have across the america universal head start. We know for a fact it is a documented fact you dont have to study this one any more. The kids who participate in the Head Start Program and get off to a good start in preschool and zpwradse 13, if you are not reading at grade level by the third or fourth grade you will struggle through middle class, middle school. And the majority of people we address are high school dropouts. You dont have to be a social scientists to make that connection. Anybody could figure that one out. So those are some of the things. And so we have an office to provide services to people who have previous criminal records and were trying to get them back into Civil Society. You will reduce your Public Safety costs when folks who were in prison are now working paying taxes. Ive spent 30 of my budget before i pick up the first bag of trash, on Public Safety. Police, prisons, courts, probation, parole, and the District Attorney. Think of how much money i could save and put into after School Programs and job Training Programs and Workforce Development and parks and recreation and swimming pools and other activities if i didnt have folks running around who cant take care of themselves. Theres no excuse even inport for beating somebody up, stabbing somebody or shooting somebody. I dont know why they commit those kinds of crimes. I know i have to make conditions such that that is not what folks are doing. And the proliferation of illegal guns on the streets of the United States of america is a national tragedy, it is a National Crime against humanity in this country. I warned you that were getting warmed up. We have some young people in the audience. Let me apologize for his enthusiasm. E as Philadelphia Phillies fan. Mayor nutter, i would like to ask one quick followup on what you just said. How are you incentivizing businesses . You have a program that i believe youre doing tax credits. I think that is important for people in the audience and people watching to understand that we are not waiting for washington to solve all of our problems globally. Very quickly. So a couple years ago working with some of my former colleagues and city council, we have a tax credit available to businesses that hire someone with a previous criminal record. We will give you a 10,000 tax credit against your business Tax Obligations to the city if you hire someone with a previous criminal record. And you can maintain that credit for up to 3 years. Obviously you have to keep the person working. Again, try to provide incentives. Think again how powerful that would be if i could couple that with a tax credit against your state taxes and against your federal taxes. Literally pay the persons salary and more if we were providing those kinds of incentives. And we should be doing other things and were trying to find some other creative ideas. But that is a population that needs to be addressed and if folks are just wandering around trying to figure out what to do with themselves, unfortunately they will get in more trouble. I read in my opening remarks a comment that president obama talked about in terms of social mobility. In your community, what are some of the Biggest Challenges that the Underserved Community is facing as it relates to trying to achieve upward social mobility . Because if that doesnt happen, Economic Justice will not take place. Well, the recession that were experiencing has been a lot longer and a lot deeper than we expected. And the reason i bring this up is that the average age of a person who now works in a Fast Food Restaurant is 29 years old. So when you look at those jobs being taken by an adult who should be in different parts of the economic ladder, it means that younger people have fewer options for work. And president obama challenged the mayors to come up with summer jobs programs and ill talk about one in tacoma because theres a bit of a twist i think every mayor has a youth summer job program. We launched ours last year in a smaller measure because we wanted to test it out. We took Youth Violence prevention dollars, and told potential employers you dont have to pay for this. The city will pay the salary of this young person. So we had about 54 young people apply and these were youth identified by school counors and principals as possibly at risk. But these were students who were credit deficient. So they were about two or three credits away from graduation. We recruiteded them, gave them Workforce Development training, we had Financial Literacy to how to dress for success and also told them about mentorship and the importance of having someone who could vouch for you. These students 50 of them graduated on time, they were paid 10 an hour throughout the summer and they now have a professional reference. Six of them actually ended up getting fulltime jobs. So what were trying to do is make sure there are opportunities for the younger people being shut out of the economic ladder but also trying to find ways to encourage job promotion and education. One of the things i talk about is how we sometimes forget that theres a whole industry of Building Trades and twoyear College Degrees and going into the trades, those are good ways to get goodpaying jobs and we often talk about fouryear universities and professional white collar jobs as those are the only jobs available. So were trying to promote twoyear colleges, the Building Trades, you nake it, but also deal with the young people and trying to get them Work Experience so in the future they are in fact employable. Thanks for that. Mayor, you talked a little bit in your opening remarks about access. And you talked about five areas, learning opportunities, transportation, child care, health care, and housing. I would love for you to touch at least a little bit on access to health care. Because when you think about this legacy of this president and how hard he has fought, that that basic right like Public Safety and education, health care is so important because the benefits, the affordability, the access are almost prerec sits to have in place in were going to be meaningfully employed. Lets look forward and then i want to step backward for a moment. With the new affordability health care act, were expecting some great things if we get enrollment, if we get participation. In some of our states and unfortunately, mine is one of them in wisconsin we basically got an absense of commitment. We have fewer people working through our state on creating access to the new Health Care System than in the than there are in the entire city of atlanta. Atlantas got almost three times as many people working on it as our state has committed. I make this point because for a Health Care System to work, it not only must be affordable but there must be access. And because of the intimacy involved in health care, between the patient and the health care provider, there has to imtrust. Now, about 15 years ago we set up a program in madison with a ealth care clinic, South Madison Community Health center was its original name. It was later retitled by the Community Board to be horambay. And over a period of a decade we started to see black infant mortality drop, drop from the National Levels down to a point where they were matching the levels for white the question is, what happened . And we really dont know. Because after a period of time it started drifting up again. Fortunately, not back to the high levels it was at. But one of the theories we have is that we created a clinic which was not the patient coming hat in hand to the health care providers. It was a system of Community Participation and a belief by the patient that i am respected, i am treated with dignity. This is all part of health care. And if were going to make the new Health Care System work, we must respect the fact that its not just about cost. But it is about human dignity. That is part of the gulf that we have in this nation in regards to our failures, our failures in health care, our failureses in education, our ailures in employment. Thats the mountain we have to climb. Thanks for that. You articulate this so well and were not going do be able to talk as much about Public Safety flt you gave one of the greatest speeches on Public Safety bar none. But what i think that youve also got at is post katrina. Ive heard you say that cities cannot wait always on help from washington. Im a living example in new orleans. But you also challenged us as mayors that you cant wait for a hurricane to fix some of your problems. Talk a little bit to us about post katrina and the Economic Opportunities that youre getting at as the most resilience in. Thank you for that. You were a basketball player once. Right . I still am, i like to think. Why does everybody wait until the last minute to play that best ball . Right . Whats that twominute drill in football . Whatever. A lot of people have asked me does a city need a catastrophe to act . One of the things i spend a lot of time thinks about is what moves us as a nation . Sandy hook, columbine. Syria, the 50th anniversary has moved us. Hurricaneless move you because they can. And unfortunately, we wait in this country until something bad happens to respond to it. And so the whole nogs of resilience is really, really important. And it revolves around the public. The question is, how do you prepare yourself for what you know may be coming or what you anticipate and put yourself in a position of no matter what it is, youre capable of responding in a forceful way so that your life is not at threat. And the city of the people of new orleans, you see this happening in the northeast. You actually saw it in chicago as a result of some of the violence that neighborhoods that are strong so theres a common theme here where theyre strong individuals, strong families, churches, communities, people who know each other, neighborhoods that participate with each other, openness, access, dignity trust. Those are neighborhoods whether its a Violent Crime wave or hurricane or tornado, or you know, some other event they didnt oonstisspate, this is what resilience looks like. So the people of the city of new orleans as a consequence of a lot of stuff not just katrina. We have a heavy reliance on the Tourism Industry because of the major sporting events. After september 11th, the economy went to nothing. And after three years of just struggling to get back, katrina hit. Then rita hit then ike then gus toff then the National Recession and the bp spill. While we were a nation at war and looking abroad. So it was a particularly difficult time. But what has happened is because the survival instinct is really strong, the people of new orleans in an amazing way said not only no but hell no and were going to get back up and were going to keep walking because this is what we have. And the thing that they did that is really that i continue to be amazed at is they decided something every community has to think about because your instinct when something bad happens is just to put it back like it was because you want to get back how you knew it to be. Andive gave us an opportunity to look at ourselves and do some searching and to come to an uncomfortable truth that as errible as ca katrina and rita were they did not cause all of our problems. They made what was bad worse and made what was beautiful much more visible and gave us an opportunity to take stock in reoriented ourselves. So thats whats happening in the city of new orleans. So instead of us Getting Health Care in one Central Place that was called charity hops taling especially for the poor of new orleans we now have 88 clinics. Were using the resources not only to rebuild the city but to use that as opportunities for jobs and to recorrect. Because we cant wait on washington to for everything, we facilitate lincoln leverage and say look show me what youve got, lets put it together, maybe we can do a better job of partnering because maybe we werent as effective as coordinating our resources. So man now that i talked about it, he turned that into a way of getting the federal government, local government to coordinate, make government leaner, safter, efficient and effective. But having said all that, no matter how fast we run in the city, no matter how much we do, the mayor pointed out that there is going to be a resource gap because the United States of america has not chosen as a country in our point in history to focus on the attention on building Human Capital. And the Human Capital and the investment in individuals is the thing that is going to make america strong. And as a consequence it should not be a surprise to anybody that there is weakness in the neighborhoods and our ability to respond as quickly as we would like to. And the call for a National Purpose on this issue in partnership with the federal government, not just waiting on them, right . Is really important. And something that i think mayors understand. And the gaps are clearer to us in many ways than they are perhaps to other people. Awesome. Thank you very much for that. So we have about 15 minutes left at this particular time. We would love to open it up. We have mike on both sides. We would ask you to come up to the mikes and address the question. I see young people that are part of a group that have im getting color blind so i dont know if its a red or orange jacket. So whatever organization the orange coat and jackets with the ties, one of you needs to come ask a question. So whatever group you represent we need you to ask a question. Is reverend price still here . Would you mind coming up . I want to ask you a question and then you can then answer my question. Reverend, we just appreciate you so much for opening up the beautiful cathedral. I know you preach on sundays about your ministry going beyond the walls of the church. My question for you or you may want to even direct it to anyone up here, is what are you telling the congregation today that is important that they need to know and remember about Economic Justice in terms of how much weve come or yet to come . Basically, we preach a bible century message here on jesus christ. But we also talk about how we can be empowered through the vehicle of education as mayor nutter talked about that we dont need more studies on education to let us know that our Head Start Programs and our prek programs are working. So this is a church that is really about educating our young people and educating people in the community. We have various programs that we partner with with the city of birmingham to help as mayor nutter talked about returning citizens to come back into society. On monday night we have a program with the family court who labeled them dead beat dads and we teach them principles on fatherhood so they can be able to take care of their children. Because most dead beat dads are dead broke dads. So in order to give them the skills to work in the workforce, that will help them and their families. And also those with drug court, those who are firsttime offenders, they come to a court here in our church and complete that course. They will receive probation instead of going into prison. But one of the things we talk about here is that we must continue to educate ourselves and to invest in the Community Around us. Thanks. Ppreciate you very much. Young fellow, tell us what organization you are a part of. Your name, school, and pose your question. My name is abe williams. Im here from Auburn University. And we also have other members here today. Hold on. Auburn that Charles Barkley went to . Yes, sir. Auburn. Ok. Theres a lot of pressure on you. I sure hope that youre going to be a better example for an auburn graduate. Than my dear friend charles who is in process. Yes, sir. Of trying to get there. Go ahead. Yes, sir. We appreciate you all letting us be here today. This is a wonderful event. And i just want to touch on education that you all mentioned as well as strong communities. In our country today it seems like some people have the opportunity to have a great education all the way throughout. However, in other communities we know thats not the case. I want you to speak on how can we make sure that those resources are going to the schools and the communities that truly need those Education Resources . All right. Any other mayors, feel free. Through a going struggle in philadelphia right now. So probably more detailed than you need. Many mayors across america are not directly in charge of their School Systems. I have appointees to a statecreated agency because pennsylvania took over our schools. But unfortunately, its been cutting funding for the past couple of years. I took the position, i may not be in charge of the School System but these are my kids. I take care of their parents trash, i should have something to say about the quality of education that they get. So the fight in at least philly and really for pennsylvania is that pennsylvania is one of only three states in america that does not use a studentweighted formula to distribute funding all across the 500 School Districts in the commonwealth. So its really about equity. The quality of your education should not a b a function of what zip code your parents decided to move to. The state in our constitution says that the state is responsible to create a fair and efficient form of education all across the queltsdz of pennsylvania. So issues of equity and their impact on urban School Districts and rural School Districts and suburban School Districts and some can raise taxes higher and some have really given a lot. And where as the state and even the federal resources for those communities but i really think this is an equity discussion in that there should be a baseline level of Educational Opportunity at every school. And if a local Community Wants to add on top of that, thats fine. But there should be certain things that are just standard. Art and music from my perspective are at least as important as english and math. They all have to be a part of a standard curriculum across the board for every child in the United States of america. Awesome. Before you sit down, i want to say each mayor up here believes that education is a top priority in our country. In fact, we all would say that it was a civil rights issues of our time. And if were not willing to pay the price and fight and lose some friends and do some of the thing that is folks in birmingham have done for 50 years then were not going to get there. And there are far too many of our children being left on the sideline. And you folks are a perfect example. I made fun of Charles Barkley but when he used to play, i am not a role model. What he said was we shouldnt be the only role model. The role models are the people like yourself and the people that interact with young people i came to the church to do my prayer and i was blessed to be able to walk into this forum. I just wanted to say thank you first of all to the people of alabama and birm tor being the birth place of civil rights. A lot of us have so much to learn from what started here. I live in new york. I work wlt with the youth, i have my own foundation. My question is what should we us as leaders be able to do for our youth to continue to empower them to follow the right path . Anyone want to address this . So i think there are two thing that is we can do. And i think part of this is an answer to the young man who was ree here previously. When we talk about how we can help our children one of the best things we can do is to help their parents be people who are productive members of society. So while we talk about education, theres so much that goes on outside of the School Building that has an impact on education. So what are we doing to ensure that people have decent jobs, theyre not living in poverty, that they have access to health care and dental care . As far as how we can influence youth, if you look at the list of stats sticks about how kids do well in school, so many of the variables are outside the classroom. And any child who has a positive relationship with an adult is going to do better and that adult does not have to be someone theyre related to. So to anyone who is in the audience who says what can we do . Aside from the kids in your family, are you volunteering . Are you mentoring . And are you having those hard conversations with young people and telling them thing thace may not want to hear . What i often say to young people is how are you choosing your friends . Because sometimes you need to let go of some folks. Are you making good decisions . Because we can blame the system but we have to take responsibility for ourselves. And we can take a Second Chance but we cant keep repeating mistakes and expecting a different outcome. So im an adult, i care about whats good for you and i want to be there for you. Thats the most important thing we can do. All right. We have two final questions. We have a question from the gentleman to my left and then would be honored if mayor del um would ask a question. Good morning. My question today is, oftentimes when we campaign for Political Office as far as the white house and mayor also, the first person we reach out to is the church. I want to know what are politicians doing today to reach out toward the church or getting outside of the schoich to reach the people in the community . Because the word says come in here and hearing it by the word not by hearing a politician or Police Officer or School Teacher or parent but a preacher. And im calling on all come outside the four walls of the church and get involved because we have a church on every corner but we dont have a pastor on every corner. All right. Im going to have the mayor address that. All mayors want to address this but your point is very well received by all of us. We know that were not going to get anything done. Thats why im so tharningeful to mayor price. Touf have your ministry beyobbed the walls of the church. In sacramento we have the clergy helping us with our gang issues, we have the clergy helping us with our homeless issues, we have the clergy and the Faith Community helping us with our educational issues. And you guys are best examples here in birmingham. Theyre great examples around the country. I would love for you to address this. First, i believe that we have since 1908 in this country on the issue of violence low expectations for education, high poverty rates, low birth weight babe earks high infant mortality, created a culture of behavior from a personal responsibility perspective that has to change. And government even on its best day and as a democrat i believe that it can be an activation for change, cannot replace personal responsibility, strong families, and communities doing what theyre supposed to do. Of course in that space stands like a beacon the paths there are the minister are the community of faith. So prayers are very important, the Civil Rights Movement was butt ressed around the faithbased community. While we talk about this, the first thing that people say is i dont want to talk about it because were going to get into the blame game. So heres how ive decided to process that problem for me. I just want to admit that there are a lot of mistakes made by a lot of people over a lot of time and we cant figure it out and we can spend the whole time. So were not all to blame. But the fact is that today we are all responsible. So lets get on about figuring out what each of us has to do. Im not going to speak for any of the mayors but i know theres more that i can do. And theres more that the church can do. And that we cant do it without them. So one of the things we tried to do in new orleans and each of the mayors is each time there is a Major Initiative that you have to call the preachers together and work with them or they will call you. So on saturday, we are going to bury 11yearold arabian gails who was cathe in the crossfire the other day. She was sleeping on her sofa when there was a drive bi shooting. And the 20 pastors from that neighborhood, called pensiontown in new orleans have come together to recommit themselves to do exactly what the gentleman said was to get outside of the walls of the church. Sunday service is important really important. So is wednesday night. Right . But at the end of the day youve got to get out. One of the things thats happened is the same thing thats happened to playgrounds. As neighborhoods have shifted play grouppeds have become more regional. So kids that play at the playground are not necessarily from that neighborhood. When i was a little boy i caulked down the street to the church, that was my neighborhood, it was all close but now its not as easy. Theres a pastor in baton rouge , starlight Baptist Church who is working with us to create a formula for pastors Training Programs working with them to talk about how you can actually not just by starting a new program but work with your congregation to get into the very neighborhood where your physical church is in partnership with the city, in communion with the neighborhoods to help do that. But this is like elbow grease. Youve got to work it. And the work requires somebody to show up and to be there and to stay on it. Because as mayor strickland said this is almost too simple and too obvious to have to state but children need to be cared for. They need to be nurtrd. They need to be molded into human beings that are productive. And the only person that can do that is an adult. So weve its got to be a mentor. And unless you do that theres a good chance that child is not going to get molded the way you want them and will find you someplace and hurt you. And then well have to be dealing with some of the issues. So the church is an essential component because i think as mayor paul said that trust factor and who actually can communicate to the individual is really critical and ministers are an essential part of our moral authority and putting boots on the ground. I want to close on the faith piece and then have him ask the final question. So one of the things i want to say in sacramento on a positive note, we had a homeless challenge in our community. And what we ended up doing is getting 12 members that were leaderships of the Faith Community who got another 0 plus. So we had all the different denominations in sacramento saying were going to solve this homeless problem together but the Faith Community said were going to leave the way. So the program called one day to end homelessness. What they did is on a sunday they chose one sunday in march and every synagogue and jew Wish Community and Muslim Community and christian community, everybody else they talked to their congregation and they asked their congregation for them to give one days worth of their rent or mortgage towards solving our homeless problem. We raised 400,000 in one sunday in sacramento. 1. 6 400,000 leveraged million of federal dollars. So this is just an example. We all have them in our community where the Faith Community has been leading the way. So thanks for that question. My hero, my role model. You get the final question. Youre on. First, with your permission i would like to make a couple brief comments. I thank the panel for your very extraordinary remarks and inspiring remarks. More importantly, i thank you for bringing poverty front and center. Because ive often said that many electeded officials have difficulty even framing the word poverty. We dont talk about poverty. In that regard i offer a couple quick thoughts. A wonderful brilliant woman told me many years ago, ron, never forget this. Jobs are not created in a vacuum that jobs are the bye product of a communitys commitment to solve a problem. If poverty then is the major problem that were confronted with, lets look at poverty as a multidimensional problem in education dimension, a training dimension, an economic dimension, environmental, housing, health, justice, racial dimension, and age dimension. If we address the dimensions that are an int cal part of poverty we will begin to solve the problem. Example, if housing is one of he dimensions for poverty we develop a cogent housing policy. Someone has to build, modernize, rehab and maintain housing. So you solve the housing problem, you strike a mighty blow toward poverty. You generate employment. So all im simply saying is lets begin to see the prosh solving strategy as a job creation strategy and lets keep poverty on the front burner and address poverty as a multidimensional issue. Because i think that the Poverty Program of the 06s, contrary to many peoples thoughts was a brilliant idea. The reason they killed it it was too brilliant an idea. Thank you very much. That was our speaker and our fifth panelist that we put in the audience. At this time i would like to thank the mayors. Lets give them a round of applause. [applause] all right. Thank you panelists. We are going to turn it over now. So the next group comes up. Well get under way with our econd panel. So the russians have been on the ground since the beginning, supplying weapons before, during, and they want to do it after whatever happens in syria. They need that warm water port. So they have a strategic they believe military strategic interest in keeping their footprint in syria. So we should try to eliminate pretty quickly some benevolent interest in being the peace maker in the region. Theyre concerned about losing a strategic asset. Thats their number one primary concern. And by the way, theyve been on the ground providing advisers, providing intelligence packages. And its in their interest to probably make sure that if theres the first people who might show up at a chemical storage facilities, i think the russians want to be the first ones in the door. I imagine theres some write nk there that might cause them some concern. Im just guessing. The problem with syria now and why it can work. But our interests have to align. So we have to push their interests to align. I believe you need a credible military threat in order to continue to have a negotiation success. I really do believe that which is exactly why the russians said that they would not allow that to happen in the United Nations. They would take out chapter 7 which would allow a United Nations military threat if we couldnt get a handle on these chemical weapons. I think theyre buying themselves they got exactly what they wanted on day one which was time. They needed assad to have more time so this gives them time to dig in, to engage in denial and deception campaigns on the ground about their chemical weapons program. It allows them to continue to supply arms financing and other things. And it sends a pretty dangerous message to the opposition that hes going to be there for a length of time. It is im skeptical. I hope it works. I just dont think it will work if we dont have some real credible threat to say guess what. If this negotiation doesnt go well we have another set of options. I worry that without that, we dont this just becomes a game of taking four months to decide when to meet. Four months to decide who gets to meet, another six months to decide who gets to go in. And that i dont think is helpful to whats happening on the ground. Do you agree that there needs to be this credible threat of military force . Without a doubt. We are here because of the threat of military force. If you look at the history, when a lot of this started, when the opposition was starting to gain momentum, that is when russia basically wanted us to come to the table and to see what we could resolve. Why does russia do this . The first thing. Putin only does whats good for putin and then second rush avement thats my opinion. And they know theyre on the wrong side of the issue. Especially as it comes to chemical weapons, but also their interests in syria and the middle east. Thats about the only jurisdiction there that really works with russia. So it was to their advantage. Then when hezbollah got in the game, things changed. We know iran was there. And they at that point said were winning. And that was why we decided to coordinate. No boots on the ground but to be the quarterback to help the opposition and the other allies to try to at least help them somehow change the tide. And the whole goal then was to get russia back to the table. Well, then were in the position now we know where we are. I think the president made the right decision because they the only leverage we have now are the players that were there. Assad killed 100,000 of the people, women and children. Ive met with assad. Opt moljist. Opt but its all about maintaining that kind of power. So i think we have to verify, trust but verify. And i think we need time limitations. Because if this was a stalling tactic then we have to continue on with the threat of force or nothing is going to happen. That is our leverage. And also, we have to verify with the people that are going to go into the country. And how thats going to happen . Thats going to be a tough situation. The country is still at war. Will the poom check to see where the weapons are and are they leaving. Are they going to be safe . And thats a portion of an event with the chair and Ranking Member of the House Intelligence Committee looking at the Intelligence Community and National Security issues. You can see that entire program this coming sunday morning at 10 35 eastern right here on cspan. Looking at some of the other programming this weekend. Earlier this week, house and nate leaders issues the gold medal to the four little girls who died in the church bombing. You can see that saturday on cspan. And on sunday, more from the road to the white house with live coverage of Vice President joe biden. He will speak at the 36th annual tom harkins steak fry. That begins at 3 00 p. M. Eastern. Watch our program on the first lady who officially changed the name of the executive mansion to the white house and add it had west wing. And live next monday, our series on first ladies continues. When she became first ladies in 1909 one of the first things she did was having cherry trees planted. He tidal baseion was a mess. The japanese heard about her interest and they decided to give 2,000 trees to the United States in her honor. Everyone was shocked the trees that were sent were older and very tall and bug infested so it was decided that they would have to be burned. In fact, president taft himself made the decision. The japanese were very accommodating and understanding and decided to send 3,000 trees which arrived in 1912 and its those that we still have a few of around the tidal basin. Cspan, we bring Public Affairs events from washington directly to you putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings and conferences. And offering complete gavel to gavel coverage of the u. S. House all as a Public Service where cspan created by the cable tv industry 34 years ago and funded by your local cable and satellite provider. Ow you can watch us in hd. The u. S. Conference of mayors commemorated the 50st anniversary of the bombing in alabama by holding a daylong discussion in thursday inside the church. Mayors from kentucky, minnesota and california discussed the Civil Rights Movement and tolerance. It was moderate bid the mayor of ohio. And a quick note. This coming sunday, cspans American History tv will be live from birmingham for a host of events. Programming begins 11 00 p. M. Eastern. Thank you very much mayor johnson. I have to tell one quick story. He was a basketball player for the cleveland cavaliers. I take credit for this a little bit because i said Kevin Johnson watched tv when he was in akron. He said when i grow up i want to be just like him. And i think he surpassed me already. Lets give a hand for kevin. We appreciate your leadership. I look forward to you as president of this conference to continue the tradition many of us have had to join with tom cochran to take on the nations and actually the worlds problems and try to be about solving those and getting something done. I want to thank reverend price, certainly mayor bell for his leadership, tom comeran and all the conference of mayors staff that has made this possible. I have to tell you, i feel a real honor standing here before you today. I was asked to moderate this panel and it really clearly was an emotional thing because 50 years ago i was growing up in what i considered to be a typical american neighborhood. I dont think we talk about diversity. It was a typical white neighborhood. Blue collar, my father was a rubber worker in akron, ohio. But at 14 years old, we couldnt figure out what you folks down here were fussing about. Because none of us had had that Life Experience. And, fortunately for me, ive had a number of Life Experience including playing football and doing other things to cross paths with a number of people who did not grow up in my neighborhood, did not have the same experiences that i had. And by sharing those, i learned and grew and in many ways theres a reason that im here today and i thank all of those people along the way. I am going to try to make less sports analogies than Kevin Johnson just did. But i will tell you one. If youre a quarterback and you look over across the line and theres a mean looking guy for somebody dressed in an orange jersey, you dont really care the color of the skin or where he goes to church. That left tackle better block that guy and we learned to accept people. And i think sports, the military, a number of things that people do are really the ones in many of our lives that have taught us lessons about judging people for what they do. And their character and how they perform rather than the color of their skin or where they worship or who they love. So im tremendously honored to be here today. 50 years later, much still needs to be done in our nation and our cities to build tolerance. And im going to use tolerance and understanding almost interchangeable because i would argue the more understanding you have with people the more tolerance you are, the more you understand why they might be different. But the value that is we all share, i would argue and i do it all the time that the political dysfunction which we see in washington today, is in great part a reflection of the lack of tolerance or understanding which some have for those with different political beliefs. The expressions of hatred and discrimination which we at times see in our communities reflect a lack of tolerance or understanding for those who are different. As mayors, it is our role to go beyond the borders of our city hall, the walls of our city hall or the borders of our control legally controlled items or institutional organizations or departments to reach out, to help build tolerance in our cities. And several of the points which we pledged to carry out are aimed at just doing occur. All this will help us build understanding in our communities. I believe each mayor could fill a whole hour with all of the things theyre doing in their own communities. We have really only a limited time so im going to introduce three mayors who someone wrote here three more distinguished i guess that means more distinguished than me, and thoughtful mayors about what they believe needs to be done to make our communities more tolerant and to create more justice in our society not only in our cities but in our nation. I want to mention that jacksonville mayor who may have been on the agenda had planned to be here with us but events are keeping him in jacksonville this morning. And mayors understand how things change quickly in our lives. Its my pleasure to introduce and im going to introduce all three of them and then they will make their comments. The important part we saw was to interact with people who want to ask questions and i encourage you. T i first mayor brady, the mayor of rochester, minnesota. Greg fisher who is the mayor of louisville, kentucky, and christopher the cabalden, mayor of west sacramento. So mayor brady. Thank you very much. Im glad you emphasized minnesota because often its assumed that its new york were named after that rochester and were all named after the one in england. So but its a real honor for me to be here and especially at this place. I grew up in auns, minnesota, which is the home of spam, the horm el company, where we had one black family in town and we knew nothing really about racial tolerance at that point. It was not an issue. I moved to rochester, home of the may or clinic. And in the 50s or 60s they had a local semipro Baseball Team in the Southern Minnesota League that had two black players at that time it was kind of a novelty. One was sam jones who had pitched a no hitter in the southern mini league and then later pitched a no hitter for the chicago cubs and he was the first black player to pitch a no hitter in the major leagues. So not boasting at all, a little bit like the mayor said, i had minimum experience to minorities and i feel blessed that as a citizen i believe ive been hopefully more than tolerant as both the manager and administrator at mayor clinic, worked there for 43 years, and now as mayor of rochester. In fact, i wish we all could be more tolerant, civil, and be accepting of all respect and understanding. A challenge in rochester is that we have residents that wish rochester was like it was 50 years ago. Few minorities, and specifically few blacks, Rochester Today is a city of about 110,000 people and its growing by 4 just between 2000 and 2010. So 85,000 up to about 107,000. In that time, our black, african, population has grown and our latino hispanic population, both have grown bout 115 from about 6500 to 7,000 persons respectively in that. 21 of our population now is what we called minority. We have this particular sign that says, welcome, we are building an Inclusive Community. Obviously much bigger than this. With a major ibm facility and mayo clinic and mayo with their 35,000 employees, the continued us to bequires welcoming to all people, and i. Hink we are we have an initiative called Destination Medical Center that billion in 3. 5 development over the next two years and another 2 billion in private development with an estimated 35,000 to 40,000 jobs from that. Mayo has also built and added a rosa parks pavilion, which has been something very new in the. Ity our city is actively and aggressively recruiting minorities, and our fire and Police Departments are trying very hard and working very hard at it to build a department that more closely resembles the population that they serve. Together, we are working on innovative ways to close the achievement gap. Our superintendent has worked very closely with the black students and has had success on that. We are piloting or going to be piloting a program with Early Childhood education for latino students and their families. And we are having oneonone meetings with the cultural community. Many of them do not feel comfortable coming to the school board, but they are meeting with cabinet members. We also know the data to reintroduce the arts into the schools for all students. The superintendent has a program that started last year. We want you back is the name of it. It was initiated by him and supported the public with over 100 people, going out on a saturday morning about a month after school had started, and we have not done it yet this year, visiting homes where students have not yet reenrolled, and a fair number of those are students of color. The results of that were most of those students then reenrolled, and the need part about it was to see both the student and the family in many cases the mom with tears in their eyes saying they did not think anybody cared so it did not matter that the student was not in school. It has really done a great job to help and that particular program. Also, we have a program for our emigrants that we assist them with free legal and language applying for their citizenship, and that has been working really well. As the mayor, im their republican supporting and attending the many traditional celebrations we have, im in supporting and attending the many traditional celebrations we have. We will be celebrating the true mexican Independence Day on september 16. We celebrate juneteenth, which commemorates the end of slavery, and, of course, do civil rights march, and in minnesota, thats a whole day in january when we are marching, and also working with native americans in the various powwows and the burial grounds within our city. I want our city to celebrate. Dversity in its broadest sense i supported a domestic partner registry, which was not popular with a lot of people. It turns out now that is not really necessary because the samesexminnesota past marriage this past year. Very outspoken about idea, andthe voter id that was defeated as a state. Theve attended also the eid stubble for the muslims right after ramadan. I found out this was just thatmely important to whole community. We have a couple thousand that come to that event on an Early Morning because no previous mayor had ever done that, and it difference. A big i should also mention that National Night out, which is celebrated across the country, is a big event. We set records every year adding out with the various neighborhoods. I get to about a dozen of them that particular night. I note each of these mayors do things that support their particular communities, and much has been done, but as we have all been saying, much needs to be done. These efforts are not always popular with those who wish we were still a population of 50,000, but it is still important. Not only for the obvious , workers forons the dmc now, but more importantly, as we build this Inclusive Community for all people. Not only the smart thing to do, but it is the right ink to do, so, thank you, and god bless each and every one of you. Thank you, mayor. Im the mayor of louisville. I want to thank all the great citizens here in birmingham for hosting us. It is an honor to be here. Our country is always going to be a work in progress when it comes to Race Relations, when it comes to our ability to reach our collective attentional as we build tolerance with each other. In the long view, theres no doubt that progress has been made when you start with Abraham Lincoln and go to Martin Luther king and then to president obama, but what you have to love about our city and our country an undeniable desire to always do better, to always improve, to address our imperfections, and we put it out on the streets in the media, and we talk about it every day in a way that few other countries do. Im a business guy and an entrepreneur that just happens to be mayor, and i can tell you that any company that pulls together a Diverse Group of people that has inclusive policies that taps the viewpoint and collective energy from a broad range of people is going ofbeat every day a Company People that just looks like themselves. And this is true, obviously, for our cities and our country as well. Now our panel is on building tolerance. I would say that building tolerance certainly is a noble. Ursuit, but it is not adequate the end goal has to be embracing our differences as people. Celebrate our difference, not merely just tolerate our differences. I want to also say that tolerance does not mean political correctness. Where we tolerate everything and in so doing, we stand for ishing, and there certainly pressure on people to do that. Tolerance means we accept in all people their ability to contribute regardless of their gender, regardless of their race, regardless of their orientation around universal truths like the golden rule, integrity, accountability. In tolerance and tolerance means we are able to judge people, in the words of dr. King, solely on the content of their character, so where are we going as a country . In the words of thomas merton, a abbey oflived at the gethsemane by my hometown of louisville, as he observed bustling oning and fourth and walnut, which is now fourth and mohamed ali, so there is a certain serendipity of that over atd as he looked all the people, the sunshines on all of our faces, illuminating the beauty of the human spirit, and in fact, we are all connected. It is obvious we are all connected. We share the same earth. We share the same air. From a governmental standpoint, we are all the same family. We pay taxes into the same body. As i tell people, whether you like it or not, we are all connected, and we have to figure andhow to get along celebrate each other. In louisville, we intentionally every day celebrate our differences through many actions. Renowned be our festival of faith where we bring people together from around the world to discuss all of our different eight traditions at all share the same principles. We recognize we have many eight traditions, but in fact, we have a common heart and we celebrate that. Week of service just this past april, over 115,000 with friendseered and strangers, helping each compassion. Pirit of louisville has been named the International Model city for compassion, so progress is being made. You see more and more people have friends with thin skin color, and we know that when you meet somebody and you go into their homes, you understand that first we are members of the human race. Thats the important issue. All other differences pale in comparison to that. Every day throughout our country as well, because in louisville about every six weeks, we naturalize about 100 people to become american citizens. People from cuba, from india, somalia. As i look in their faces and their eyes, and its a tremendously emotional experience, i see the very ideals that our country stands point stands for, a country that embraces differences, a country that is growing everyday through naturalizing citizens that embrace these as well. More work remains to be done. We are not named after any cities in england. We are named after sacramento. Johnson and i were not alive at the time of the or at the this church hatching of the Civil Rights Movement. And yet, and a lot of ways, neither of us would be here today if it were not for that. Ovement for me, i probably would not have been born. My parents would not have been allowed to be married in most states in this country absent a movement here in birmingham and the rest of the south. My father being the son of immigrants from the philippines who were farmworkers who every day had to go drink at the fountains in stockton, california, but could never have married the white woman from michigan who became my mom. When i went to school and the freedom riders had come back so proud of themselves and california and then turned the lens back on our own community and realized how deeply segregated los angeles was, i was part of the very ever desegregation school created in los angeles, actually, the first Magnet School in california. My parents wanted me to understand where and why i was integration mattered. Desegregation school in los angeles with all the cameras and all the reporters and all the activists and all the protesters, when i was just in seventh grade, that ultimately led me to get my voice and become a mayor in my own community. It was the movement here that or to meet as a person and made possible what has happened, and that is true for a larger community. As the mayor documented earlier, the u. S. Conference of mayors in 2009, building on our long legacy of activism in this country around civil rights adopted a sweeping proposal for full equality and justice for gay and lesbian americans, including Marriage Equality, but on every scope, work that could not have even been conceived up prior to the Civil Rights Movement because we did not have language for civil rights. We did not have the word. We did not have the infrastructure. Not just the past, but the word and all the sewer lines underneath and telecommunications were all laid by the Civil Rights Movement so that when it came time, when finally, the door open for the possibility of equality for gay and lesbian americans, it was simply a matter of finding all the laws where it read, race, adding a creed and protection in for me. Could not have been done without the Civil Rights Movement in the first place. That infrastructure created the possibility that equality could be achieved and within my. Ifetime sometimes we think that this is some sort of linear process, and i worry about this with a lot of young activists today that think it is a natural line of ryegrass from hate and replaced by tolerance and being replaced by rights and justice and it is all just inevitable and that activism is just about owning up a Facebook Status update, maybe changing your profile picture for a day, voting for one person to be president and going back to your life and expecting at all to change. That we do not understand what you really must happen, what always had to happen her rights and justice to occur four rights and justice to occur. We expect a court to make it happen someday. All of the struggle, all of the death, all the injustice that preceded and followed the bombing at this church are not told, or they are told when a little box with a picture. Our struggle in what is involved securing rights is something that is critical that we explain and that we explore more so than we do not simply have this consumer idea around what civil rights are about, that we just buy it with our vote or with an ad or a Facebook Status update or tweed, but we buy it with investing our soul, by challenging one another, and by tackling them one at a time. It drives me crazy when we talk about you cannot have justice unless you solve are pretty. You cannot have justice unless you solve preschool. Yes, you can. You can have more justice, and when we say you cannot have justice until you solve every other problem, which eventually we get to Mental Health and education and everything else, what you are really saying is you cannot have justice, and that cannot be acceptable in this country. We have to be good enough to tackle all of those at the same time. They all matter. What i think i learned from studying and learning and exploring in birmingham was how nonlinear this all is and how people arguing or fighting in the chaos of the struggle, not some Consulting Firm coming in with all the activists in birmingham and saying with a bunch of butcher paper around the wall, what is our Strategic Plan and who is going to do what and how is that exactly going to play out . And fightingguing turf battles all the time, exploring the opportunity that was in front of them at that moment. That is the nature of how struggles that really matter work. We know this in cities because the Civil Rights Movement is not mainly about the national struggle. It is about what occurs in cities. The fight was about buses. It was about toilets, parks, zoning, police. Those are municipal issues. Why was it about those things . Yes because they are markers for dignity and justice and respect, but because they are the things that regular people experience and regular people can influence. I can write my congressman, but what really matters in the day is my ability to influence my community. That is why those matter so much. Civil rights are contests at the city level, and at every progressive decision had action as its parents some leadership why the city in order to make it occur, and that has to be everything going forward. For me, the Court Decisions around Marriage Equality happen because of a mayor in the city of San Francisco saying, im not going to stand for this anymore. Im going to make this work. Cities have to be and always have and the locusts, the center, the driving force for change. It is really about is not tolerating a Law Enforcement and Justice System that is institutionally racist, about not tolerating schools that institutionally are not giving us Justice Thomas around tolerating the kinds of pushups and expulsions from School Every Day that are contributing and causing the challenges and our criminal Justice System and our complicity, our landuse, zoning policies that continue to, by practice, result in desegregation, stopping the kind of collisions that makes it is exciting, that make cities created, that create Economic Growth and our community collisions that make cities exciting, that make cities creative. Kids who get caught in the Justice System when they are 12 they do not have to worry about ever getting tolerated because the rest of my Community Never sees them. They are nameless. They are faceless. They are just a statistic. They went straight from womb to street to jail. At no point did tolerance matter, which is why tolerance is a significant part of the equation, but it is not everything. Today it may not even be the most important thing. It is making sure that we give those kids the luxury of having to deal with intolerance. Because they have made it into our work laces, into our universities, into Civil Society where they can be annoyed by people who do not get it, by ignorant people who are not with them. That is in some ways our most fundamental challenge, their right to be in tolerated for just a little while. For just a little while. [applause] the Civil Rights Movement for gays and lesbians in this country got a turbo boost from the Civil Rights Movement. What drives me nuts in that community is folk saying that that is the new Civil Rights Movement or that is the Civil Rights Movement of our generation. Sure, it is part of it, but the Civil Rights Movement of 1963, the Civil Rights Movement that was accelerated by what happened here at this church is the Civil Rights Movement of today. It is the Civil Rights Movement of the 21stcentury and it is the Civil Rights Movement of our generation. The tent is bigger. The cause is broader. The scope of people who must be delivered justice is greater, but that movement and its purpose and its call to action into our hearts and souls remains the agenda and the movement for today. [applause] you to think about some good questions. Im going to lead off with a couple, but i want to pick up on something that is almost beyond as i talk about my growth and thinking that things were going in the direction that they should, but not too long ago probably within the last decade or so, when i appointed the First Black Police chief after having appointed the first black fire chief, i realized about a year later that two friends of mine stopped talking to me. Is really something that was amazing to me to think about this in tolerance and thinking about people who i have grown up with to actually think the 21st century that i had done something wrong by appointing those two individuals, both of whom did a good job for the citizens of akron and judging them on their performance, i can say that. I think we look at what cities can do, what leaders can do, what mayors can do, and one of the things that happened in akron was recognition by our foundation,d knight the chain of newspapers was founded by John S Knight in akron, and they funded a program and itcoming together was literally working to bring Diverse Groups like all white suburban churches coming together with predominantly black churches, and that example across the board bringing together middle school kids from thirdring suburbs into the city of akron to visit with middle schools that were predominantly black created this sense of understanding that is vitally important. President clinton recognized us when he came to akron in 1997 with his first town hall meeting, talking about Race Relations in this country. We move along this process of saying what more can we do, no matter what our progress and what we have done successfully, but what is it that we can do mayors, local elected officials to influence more of the national discourse, national to besion to get people more tolerant or understanding of different views . Any ideas of what we should do or can do to bring the National Recognition . Going to call on louisville because you are the biggest city, and sometimes washington only listens to big cities. I do not know who they listen to. I think that is part of the problem, the disconnect between washington and our city seems to be pretty immense. We are just kind of taking care of business on our own. This work has to be intentional, or people tend to go to churches with who they go to churches with, party with who they party with, go to school with who they go with. The role of a mayor has to be how we are going to bring our city together. How we are going to celebrate who we are collectively and not individually. I know it sounds so elementary, but in our city and all the other cities i see around the country, this is still very much a work in progress. Values as ariving city is the value of compassion. How can we be an even more compassionate city . We bring that to life through service work. We have a big week of Service Called the give ed a give a day week of service. A day, a couple of hours, everybody help somebody. I said lets set a world record for compassion. I did not know what the world record was, but as mayor, you can say things like this. We have 115,000 people come out, friends helping friends, strangers helping strangers. I proclaimed that we set a world record for compassion, and as mayor, you can proclaim things, and people believe that. Now cities all over the world are asking how we set this record for compassion. I said that i would help them beat us as World Champion because that is what compassionate people do. My point is during this week of service, you look over, and there somebody from a different part of town that looks different from you, that before you might have just passed by and never saw them, but now you see them as a man with a family with kids that have the same challenges as your kids, and suddenly, we relate to each other as human beings. I do not know if we call that building tolerance or embracing our differences, but what i do know is it will do the strength of your city, and cities require strength, just like states and countries do, because we will always be tested. Might be on the economic battlefield. Might be social justice, but and we have that strength heart and soul as humans, we can rise above the challenge. Not just the taxpayer. Im also a citizen. That means i contribute to a collect it good that is bigger than me, and i do that with my time and talent and treasure. We all know it is very difficult. One example i have that has. Eally worked well for us the catholic sisters in rochester took on the whole issue of Human Trafficking with young girls mainly young girls. They had a whole seminar on it that i participated in, and i did say to the sisters you have to remember, this is a lutheran kid talking to the sisters, too, so that was interesting for me am a but i said, let me talk to our senator. When she first came to office, she told her staff person whenever rochester want something or the mayo clinic want something, you better be there and let me know, so we have that Good Relationship with one senator, anyway, but i told her staff person and he immediately talked to her, and she has been back with me, and she is introducing some legislation to really facilitate and help with that whole problem , so there are sometimes those rays of hope that come from Good Relationships that you do have, biggerthe picture the picture at times, it becomes very frustrating as to what you anddo with both state federal budgets, but there is that one good story i have for that relationship with her, and its other things as well where she ends up winning each time she has run with about 75 , so i guess she is doing the right ring for the whole state. Also part of the challenges that the federal government just they do not get cities. Almost all of our gross dimension grossed arresting National Product prison cities, they just do not get it. Issues like the Community Development block grant was mentioned, those are resources that are really critical towards creating integrated neighborhoods or upgrading neighborhoods or creating equality among neighborhoods, and that is not seen as a priority for so many federal policymakers. Drying that kind of line is kindcal, drawing that of line is critical, but also helping them understand the economic implications of those decisions is a key action, but i agree. And the other is out of the way. The federal government with all of the mandates and sewer system cost and everything else, all that sucks the resources out of our systems, and basically, the federal government looks at to these as though we are rich because we are large, but we are large because we represent a lot of middleclass and poor folks that do not have a lot of money. A lot of them happen to live together, so the government says we want to clean up the air and water, so you just go do that and pay for it since you have all this money. My constituents do not actually have that much money. Thinking about how federal policy institutionalizes discriminatory policies and finance mechanisms by hitting cities harder than other parts of the country i think is a big art of it, but it cannot just be about the ads. We have a lot of tools, and i think most of them are at our disposal. Were not going to look at what was done with the powers of City Government to enforce segregation and evil. Am i using those same powers as strongly, as effectively, as determinedly on the opposite side of the equation . He did a lot. He had police, fire, schools. I have those things less sewer and water and a lot of other things at my disposal, and they all have subtle but important implications about where we are going to build things. Who is going to get septic tanks and onto sewer, whos going to get the new bus line versus the new light rail line . Where are we going to build the new solar roof or schools . Those decisions every single one of them has an impact on what your city looks like, how it interacts, and whether people connect with one another. What an never had to do when i was growing up was to get my parents run the table and say, i have something to tell you. Its going to be uncomfortable. Im filipino. They knew that, but the people next door did not know that. Nobody did. That was always part of their experience. When i had to tell them that im gay and they were like they love me anyway, i was instantly integrated into their lives, inextricably. Whether it was for gays and lesbians or for women, we are already integrated, right . There is no avoiding us. When you watch debates in the legislatures are congress and people stand up and say that it is your son or your daughter that you did not know before and you can change your mind because you just discovered that, we do not have that experience when it comes to race. Part of the point of the city is to create those experiences, create the unintended, unanticipated collisions in a good way with people, whether that is in the workplace, the park, the library, or the dense housing development. Wherever it is, our job as mayors is in part to create not immigration not integration in the classic legal way, although that is part of it, but the opportunity for people to bring each other into their lives. That is so essential for the changing of hearts and minds and souls. Have heard a couple of. Ther words used here i used understanding is part of the meaning of tolerance. You just mentioned experiences. Mayor brady, you just mentioned Good Relationships. A long timeith serving councilperson who served as Council President , and i would describe it that we had a relationship that went beyond tolerance. Most mayors just sort of tolerate their council members. He is one of my best friends in life and now works as planning director and has done a great job. I think youthings understand is it is difficult more difficult, i would offer you, to change the minds of people who have a whole Life Experience and have this hate. Uilt in then it is our youth someone once said that we were not born with prejudice. We learn those from wrong experiences or from wrong education. Create a Youth Leadership program called peacemakers and invited young people, high school age, to come in and learn more about their community and how they could serve. When we get people engaged to learn more about how Government Works and accepting of their , we understandns how we have a role to play in a democracy. My question is and im going to make one other statement, and i do not know what it is like in other cities exactly, but i know in akron, pastors, priests, walls ofe outside the their church actively working, whether it is food pantries, serving meals to poor people, running for school board there is a great deal that pastors have done to be a leader in this issue as well as many but, mayors, who else . Eeds to be at the table we call its stakeholders. What else can we do to reach out to other segments beyond just saying that this is kind of a , sogood kind of issue here we call on the preachers to do that. Who else needs to be at the table to get this job done, to move us along this progression that you are all talking about making progress, making improvements . Leadership often comes from very surprising places, so the city andis is your are our individual minds open to that . When we see somebody that might look extraordinarily different from us, and you do not look in and say, boy, he looks strange, versus, that person has an extraordinary amount to you find that theres a whole group of people that look like them and think like them and now find that they are accepted and have a voice. Many people in cities feel like their voice does not matter and like they have no hope. They feel socially isolated, and that leads to trouble, usually. Our job is to break down that social isolation. That means at the table, you have people that are frequently going to challenge you in unconventional ways. When you are younger, you might see that is threatening. When you are older and more wise, hopefully you see that as a call to celebrate. Inevitably, it leads to something good. Perspective. Our the goal in the city i would say in the country is to be able to look at all of these challenges through this very broad perspective. We have to deal with the bell curve of like. Not like a company where you can say you do not want a customer or supplier. With that also comes a lot of opportunities. Additionally, we are doing a lot of interesting things to our Public Health department, for instance. Issues of access, help the community fellows, young people in the community that are our teenagers. The good news is when we take a look at statistics i brought a reuters poll with me that says Many Americans have no friends of another race. About 40 of White Americans and 25 of nonWhite Americans are surrounded exclusively by people that look like them. When you go under the age of 30, it changes. To your point, mayor, about 1 3 under the age of 30 have a partner or spouse or are in a relationship with someone of a different race, compared with 1 10 americans overall erie only one in 10 adults under 30 say no one among the family, friends, or coworkers is of a different race. When i look at my kids and this generation we are talking about, this is when you can see that pendulum of change happening. Not happening fast enough, but it is taking place. Together thatups involve the schools. The chamber of commerce, businesses, and in our case, we have two major employers with mayo and ibm, but an experience and experience back when i was working at mayo is sometimes it works and it did in one place, find the most disagreeable person or the one that really wanted to do what you wanted to have done, a new system you were putting in, so we met with that person and ultimately pointed out all the of that, andnuses she understood it, and when she became the spokesperson for that new system, everybody accepted and then because if you could convince her, you knew you had it made. If we had just tried to do it with those that were already believers, if you will, i do not think it would have worked, but with her, it didnt work. Work withyou have to the ones that are the most disagreeable to get something that all can agree upon. You are fortunate because some of those folks you cannot get to no matter how much logic and education. That is true. Im going to open up to questions. Any questions that we have out there from the audience . I would love to ask the young question. First if i didd be remiss not mention to you guys you. Alk about tolerance i moved here from San Francisco to washington, d. C. , and i came boy because as a young growing up in d. C. , i watched down 16th street headed to the march on washington. When we talk about tolerance, we dr. Kingsrt with letter from the birmingham jail. If you read it, if you study it, he talked about people taking but nots of tolerance moving it beyond that. I do not know if i really juststand it, but i will tolerate it. We will tolerate. Dr. King spoke about that, and i nk today, in this church or this panel, i would like to hear, especially from you i love your energy. I love your energy. Tell uso hear somebody what is going to be beyond in hisce, like king did letter from a birmingham jail. What is the action behind the words . You did not just call me out, did you . Critical point then and it still is now. Our job is not to get those people who dislike us to love us. Our aim was to try to create the kind of america legislatively, morally, and psychologically such that even though some people continue to hate us, they cannot openly manifest that hate. That has been our agenda. It has to still be in many ways, but that is not enough any longer, either, because the open manifestation is mostly not allowed under the law. Even in a place like california where im from, it is not allowed in daily discourse, but it does not have to be because we are living on top of a set of laws and institutions and economic structures that were created when hate was manifest in all of them, so to simply say that we are now going to start over, but we are leaving the entire infrastructure underneath laws the same, when our about zoning, when our priorities about how we deliver transportation, just a basic implied that were all derived from that. The great investments in American Cities and our infrastructure, the technological change, changes in industry under occurred all occurred under both institutional and overt racism and discrimination and hate. We have to look at all those pieces, but they do not come to us in the way they did as, i hate blacks or i hate gays or i hate women. Its not that easy anymore. Even in the 1980s, people would say they noticed in the document that it does not say diversity anywhere. Protesting a stakeholders. Ok, that is fine, but what does that actually say about the outcome . What about the results . Part of the challenge today is to be a lot more sophisticated around those other policies so is pastors ort Community Organizations or students or others, they can look at a Zoning Ordinance that does not say race anywhere in it and start to analyze what the key things mean. When they say we do not want more than 12 units per acre, what is that the lease saying . What is that intended to do . And then be able to step up. When we say we do not want our rail line going anywhere that does not have this proportion of corporate offices on it, what does that really mean . When we talk about how to address crime in terms of improving effectiveness of Law Enforcement and identifying problems before they happen, well, how . A greato that matters deal, so being able to deconstruct all the other policies that are happening at every level of government but especially communities and cities in ways that uncover, that honor unearth the very hidden just because of the history of where race and poverty and all sorts of these other issues come into play is really a challenge for every stakeholder. Its no longer just about who comes to the table but what is the lens that they are bringing and the tools they are bringing in order to be effective at uncovering just these issues. The tactics, the laws are very important. I think the benefit we all could have as leaders in our community and especially as mayors is to create the conditions for the conversation, to be leaders in secular ethics. Became mayor twoanda half years ago in my in neural address, i spoke about a city of health, mentall health, environMental Health. I spoke about an even more compassionate city. My political advisor said, do not talk about compassion. It will make you sound week and political leaders are supposed to be strong. I said i think it requires more strength to talk about compassion than it does to be , ary or skeptical, cynical critic from the couch, and what i found is that compassion is the one thing that i can get everybody to agree on. It does not matter republican, independent, democrat, tea party, black, white, yellow, everybody nods their head when i talk about compassion and the need for a city to be a center for compassion because thats what creates a context for social innovation, which leads to technical innovation, which leads to jobs. While it is important that we put all of these frameworks in place and i see young people in particular always are looking for the big answer that one my one thing is just to say be compassionate. That is what makes people happy. That is what will make you happy. We see that all over the world what is that one thing we can do that connects with you as a human being . If everybody does that, all these other problems go away. Sometimes we get complicated and we get caught up in these other particular details that we can. Ome back we will be a tremendous country if we are in that one place. I think it is like everything that mayors face its a complex set of circumstances that we are doing police and fire and managing them and dealing with our University President and encouraging them to do something, and sometimes we are superintendent of the school. Theres a lot of different parts to that. I would argue that the population, just like students, do not all learn at the same rate, so building tolerance is the minimum that we need to work on for some people while we are building beyond tolerance, which is what your question is, with other folks, and you have to bring them all along. Thats the way i look at the answer to your question, and andrs have to address that multiple different ways. We have the gay games coming to akron and cleveland, but there were two national incidences of hate crimes right in cleveland, and it is demoralizing in many ways. While we are out touting some of the things we have done, and a year from now, the International Gay games, thousands of people will be coming there, so theres Different Levels all of the time while people are working, trying to make their experience more valuable and enjoyable, here are other folks doing things that we have to bring everyone along, i think, and the level of learning, or the level of their education on issues is different, and it depends on what your circumstance is, but i think you have to address all of them. Young lady, i think we have time for two more . Go ahead. The next stepieve after tolerance is unity. I am a native of birmingham, alabama. In 2006, i founded the unity motter, and im working on expanding that to a much larger organization. My question is for you mayors. What suggestions do you have four strategies or incentives to get Corporate America and government officials to come together and Work Together on initiatives that already exist in so many different areas of the city, even when it may not be beneficial . What incentives or strategies do whosuggest for people actually are actively trying to unify their cities and organizations to get support from government and Corporate America . Im going to ask the mayors to do that as sort of in bullet points. Have them create mentorships where these young people who do not look like what the Corporate Structure is, have them coach them and develop them through their system so they can appreciate the challenges we have in all of our cities. We have different groups that are organized around the youth, and we get them involved. I noticed one event that has really made a difference is what we call the youth on tour at the capital. We have over 100 youth of all nationalities, cultures, races that go up there and meet with the governor. Those kind of things i think can get the students engaged in government to know what that is about, invite them to our council meetings, etc. They will find out that maybe it is not something they really want to do, but it is good. I would skip the case statement most times and go right to the action. For corporate leaders, political leaders, and others, in most places, they get the need and the white. They also understand why it is economically beneficial for them as a company, but oftentimes, we do not assume that. We assume we have to educate them on 100 years of the struggle, and by the time we are done, the meeting is over. So getting right to the four things you want from the company or that the company can do to help diversify the start of , and it does not look like our community, and four things you think the company can do, whether it is providing an internship or deploying some coders to help, you have got to declare that at the very beginning as opposed to telling them the story. Get right to the point about what it is that you think will bring real resources to make change happen. The best social program is a job. If we can create jobs, good things happen. I also would add that i think intodays world, especially Corporate America, they always talk about measurable. As much as you can build that in. The problem is i have learned much of the good eggs in life you cannot really measure. Not in the kinds of measurements. There are some things that if you can, it helps to get them to explain why it is. For instance, leaving people out of the economic base of a community that make sense. Asmakes sense to talk about the Previous Panel did what you can do when you have everybody buying product, everybody being productive members of the economy. That measurable is important. It is not always there, but as much as you can, build that into your discussion, i think it helps with Corporate America. This gentleman was here. Hold on. Do we have one more im sorry, go ahead. He has been standing there. Im here with the Auburn University representatives. Tolerance brings many thought to my mind. One of them is how can Public Officials inspire the hearts of the people of our nation to have empathy for one another, a level above just tolerance, and how can we have an understanding for our fellow man . I do not consider myself in any way in this level of joe riley will make you cry about issues that sometimes you cannot measure, about bringing people together, about why downtowns are of space and why place is important. If you can, listen. Timesthis country, in that we move the most, it has been some phenomenal human being reaching us inside to say the things that drive us to do more i would suggest to you, joe riley is one of those individuals thats my answer. If you can top that, you tell me, but no ahead. But go ahead im going to go for a little city like west that momento. Cities like louisville always push in. Im going to go for a little city like west sacramento. At the cityt is level or corporate level or Community Organizations, where we pretend to be always perfect saints, and the problem with empathy is that it requires you to get out of that for a moment, to not think that it is all about your leadership or about your objectives and also to be able to have some vulnerability and to be wrong, right . If you are really understanding someone elses experience at a level of and the, not just reading the stats, then theres a chance that you might learn something. That means you were not 100 right five minutes ago. We do not tolerate that much among our corporate and political leaders. Part of it is for americans to expect our leaders to do, to be evaluated on a different asus, but we have to model that, too, and show that, and in some places the courageous, but also show how basically human that is and how courageous it is not in order to really understand the diversity of experiences that are all around us every day, whether it is race or a variety of others that influence who we are. The ecosystems that we are managing, that we are helping to lead and inspire our the collection of all those aspirations,pes, and fears and excitement that we have to capture in order to channel the future of our communities. We have to bring this to a close. Im sorry. Have to get people in schools. Get people in schools to teach young kids how to read. At grade our kids level reading, as a country, we will be strong. First you learn to read. Then you read to learn. Get people in schools to learn how to mentor kids. Last, empathy is not sympathy. The person that reaches out learns so much more about their preconceived notions and how wrong they were. That makes us all better. Mayor nutter says that the strategy in philadelphia on poverty is education. The strategy for violence is education. I think in tolerance, you should say the same thing its education. I have to bring this to a close. Please join me in thanking the panelists. [applause] i will turn it back now. [applause] heres a look at some of our prime time programming across the cspan networks. At 8 00 eastern, a discussion of the 2008 financial crisis and what lessons have been learned since then. Panelists include former House Financial Services Committee Chair barney frank among others. At 8 00 eastern, michigan democrat congressman john conyers on detroits bankruptcy. Coming up tonight on cspan three, the alliance for Health Reform hosts an event looking at telemedicine. Earlier this week, we showed you an event looking at the u. S. Intelligence committee and National Security issues. Figures included the chair and ranking number of the House Intelligence Committee. We will have that entire event sunday right here on cspan, but here is a brief look. First, lets try to understand the problem. The russians have been on the ground since the beginning. They have longterm military contracts there. They have been supplying weapons before, during, and they want to do it after whatever happens in syria. They really need that warm water port. They need to keep that warm water port, so they have a strategic, as they believe military strategic interest in keeping their footprint in syria , so we should try to illuminate eliminate quickly some benevolent interest. They are concerned about losing a strategic asset. That is their primary concern. By the way, they have been on the ground providing advisories, providing intelligence, and it is in their interest to probably make sure that the first people who might show up at a chemical Storage Facility i think the russians want to be the first ones in the door. I imagine there are some cyrillic writing in there that might cause them some concern. m just guessing the problem with syriaow it can work, but our interests have to align, so we have to push their interests to a line. I believe you need a credible military threat in order to continue to have a negotiation. I really do believe that, which is exactly why the russians said they would not allow that to happen in the United Nations. They would take out chapter seven, which would allow a United Nations military threat if we could not get a hand handle on these chemical weapons. They got exactly what they wanted on day one, which was time. They needed a sought to have more time, so this gives them ine to dig in, to engage denial and deception campaigns on the ground about their chemical weapons program. It allows them to continue to supply arms, financing, and other things, and it sends a pretty dangerous message to the opposition that he is going to be there for a length of time. Im skeptical. I hope it works. I just do not think it will work if we do not have some credible threat to say, at this negotiation does not go well, we have a whole other set of options and you are not going to like any of them. I worry that without that, this just hit becomes a game of taking four months to decide when to meet, taking four months after that to decide who will that ofur months after deciding who goes into syria, and i do not think that is helpful to anything on the ground. Do you agree that there needs to be a credible threat of military force . Without a doubt. We are here because of the threat of military force. If you look at the history, when a lot of this started, when opposition was starting to gain momentum, that is when russia basically wanted us to come to the table and see what we could resolve. Putin will only do what is good for prudent for putin. And they know they are on the wrong side of the issue, especially when it comes to chemical weapons. That is about the only jurisdiction that really works with russia, so it is to their advantage. When hezbollah got in the game, things changed. They said we are winning. Then that is when we decided to coordinate, to quarterback, helping the opposition to change the tide. The goal was to get russia back to the table. I think the president made the right decision because the only leverage we have now is force. Assad killed 100,000 of his own people. I am amazed. He is a lowkey ophthalmologist. It is all about maintaining power. I think we have to verify. I think we need time limitations. If this is a stalling tactic, we need to continue on with the threat of force, or nothing will happen. That is our leverage. We also have to verify with people that go into the country, and how that will happen that will be a tough situation. The country is still at war. Are they going to be safe . Hes are things we have to deal with. Xstrata is a portion of the event and that is a portion of the event. You can see the entire program this sunday morning at 10 35 eastern on cspan. House and Senate Leaders posthumously awarded the congressional gold medal in to the four little girls that died in a Birmingham Church bombing in 1963. You can see that saturday at 8 35 p. M. On cspan. Vice President Joe Biden will speak at the 36th annual tom harkins steak fry. That begins at 3 00 p. M. Eastern here on cspan. Yes, the world is changing. No, we cannot control every event, but america remains the nation inensable world affairs, and as long as i am president , i want to keep it that way. What the president does not want americans to contemplate is we do not know how to win wars. We have, by virtually any measure, the test military in the world. Basically thethan rest of the world put together, but we do not know how to win wars. It seems there ought to be a Serious National Conversation asking why that is the case. Where does the fault lie . Are our politicians to stupid . Are our generations and that . Is the size too small of the force . Its very nature, war is unpredictable. To go to war is to roll the dice, and you might win, and you might not. More with a retired army colonel and princeton history professor sunday night at 8 00. Cspan q a cspan, we put you in the room at congo congressional hearings, white house event, and offer complete gaveltogavel coverage of the u. S. House, all as a Public Service of a private industry. We are created 34 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite divider. Now you can watch us in hd. On the next washington journal former cia operative Michael Hurley joins us to discuss the threat from al qaeda and other related groups and a conversation on immigration legislation and the author of aboutok shadow elite people who move between government service, tv punditry, working for think tanks and lobbying. Now, a conversation from this mornings washington journal. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] host Weekly Standard founder and editor william kristol. How do you think the republicans should play this . Guest i dont think they can defund the whole thing. We will stagger along there will be a debt ceiling fight, probably a short shutdown in december. It is slightly crazy way to run the government but i think voters have decided to divide and control the government. They elected obama by a big margin and the house by a very big margin. They decided to keep government in 2012. Some people think it is dysfunctional and messy, but spending has been kept under control. Conservatives like me havent got much of our agenda advanced, but we got to stop liberals in the last two or three years. Obamacare will be the center of the fight, but i think we will keep the government open. Host have the ted cruzs and the rand pauls been helpful . Guest the leadership has been derelict, and they are not focused. It is a single biggest government expansion. Parts of it that dont seem ready to be implemented anyway, parts of it obama himself has delayed. Why not delay other analogous parts like the individual mandate . I think they have been very useful in raising the issue. Shouldnt the house use what leverage it has to look to delay obamacare . They only do control, the republicans only control one half of congress and president obama did get elected. He is not going to accede to a complete stop of his signature legislative achievement. The tactics are not so helpful. If you happen to disagree with them on their tactics youre somehow a traitor to conservatives, a sellout. It is not about coverage, it could be in some cases, but in many cases it is a genuine disagreement on how to advance a conservative policy agenda. Host the Washington Times has said that the defund is a bamboozlment of voters. Guest i told a member of the leadership that i thought it would collapse. Sometimes in politics it is better to be straightforward than clever. I think the house should pass what it thinks is right. May the exchanges or make sure that the least security or privacy concerns are verified to be working before they are opened. You can say look, we are funding the government. We are not picking a fight with president obama. He himself suspended the employer mandate. These exchanges are incredibly complex. Lots of serious people, bipartisan expert types say they are very uncertain that the Privacy Security concerns can be addressed heard lets at least make sure they can be addressed before we open these exchanges. Go with some targeted things that you can get on the continued resolution. I think some democrats in the senate would say that is not a bad deal. We believe in this, we voted for this legislation, but they dont have an interest in seeing this delivered any hamhanded way. Host what do you think of mr. Boehner . Guest hes done a good job all these people are always saying hes weak and he cant keep his guys in line. I think some of the debate has been healthy for republicans. We will end up next week with a better strategy and tactics on the continuing resolution than if leadership had simply lay down the law this week or conversely if they were simply following senator cruz and the hardline activist line. Some of this debate can be healthy. My only criticism would be that they focus too much on unanimity in the caucus. There havent been as many constructive house he proposals advanced. Those arent going to become law. Higher education, healthcare, million different issues. They could make more progress over the next year or two in getting some draft pieces of legislation out there, having some hearings, arcing legislation. It would be very helpful for republicans in 2014 and 2016 to say we do have an agenda in areas a, b, c, d. We are not just for freezing the status quo or going back to the way things were in 2008. Host in your sister publication, the wall street journal, this morning. Guest i think that is partly guest i think that is partly due to some reasonable performance by republicans. If you live in michigan or indiana or ohio. You wake up and think these republicans in the media are bunch of lunatics. They seem to be doing a pretty good job governing is pretty conservative republican governors. Obviously the drop in president obamas popularity. If you look at at the popularity of these measures, the leader of the party is the leader. Leader of the party is responsible. Since then, it has been all downhill for him. I think he has made some tactical mistakes in terms of the guncontrol fight which he ended up losing, immigration, then of course the world is getting more dangerous. The economy is not doing particularly well. The more you see obamacare people thatled out. Were skeptical are getting more skeptical. I would say you cannot count on ,our opponents making mistakes or bill bennett would say no one becomes a saint because of other peoples sins. Republicans cannot become saint anyway. I think it is a practical matter. Republicans are in good shape for 2014 and 2016. Host the topic of your last two editorials in the Weekly Standard, syria, mark twain said history does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme. The Syrian Civil War rhyme with spanish civil war . Guest that is sort of an esoteric allusion, but some people have made that comparison. The spanish civil war was a precursor, the religion cause, which was not aided by the democracy, taken over by communist. You ended up with two sides fighting, but they let it get to that point. They were not into meeting anywhere. They did that one mussolini invaded ethiopia and used poison gas, incidentally. They nations did not do it. The depression was going on. Then hitler, that is too difficult. Not to compare obviously, syria and iran with germany or for that matter and puerile imperial japan, but that makes it more frustrating that we are so determined not to use our political and military clout, the Syrian Civil War did not have to kill 100,000 people. Itd not have to feature the use of chemical weapons. It is not now have to sustain a situation where we have backed out, putin is now empowered, assad is empowered, al qaeda is empowered. Iran is stronger than ever. It is a very dangerous situation. We obviously cannot let the middle east get to that situation, which is why i ran well, front and center in politics iran will come front and center in politics. Host your editorial, a yes vote on in syria is the easy vote. It is actually close to risk free. Guest i would first argue that i think we should have used force to punish assad. I think we should have used it a long time ago indirectly to get rid of assad. Once he began using chemical weapons, i would have accelerated that pressure and that effort. As the president said, that is a red line. I would at least punished assad in a serious way. The president backed off from that. I wrote the editorial a week ago, the president had asked for congressional authorization. I thought it with the right thing for republicans to do. They did not trust the way he would use force. I did not trust the way he would use force, but some forces better than simply walking away from it. Acting late is often better than acting not at all. There were fancy arguments about doing something inadequate its even worse than doing nothing. I do not agree with it. I regret that so many republicans came out against the president. I must say on the other hand the president , he did not make it easy for republicans to support him. The obama effort became so comically incompetent that at that point you cannot even really go to republicans and say described the authorization, and in fact it all fell apart on the hill. Host hello, i must be going. The Weekly Standard was just put on my last night. Guest thursday. Host you use two words in here, marxist and munich. Guest that is a groucho marx routine and animal crackers, hello, i must be going, which a friend of mine pointed out to me that that is what obamas speech was like, we have got to do some something about assad, redline a must make ross. But you know what, im not going to do anything, and putin is going to take care of this, and im sending john kerry to geneva. I talk a little bit about the groucho marx routine. I do quote karl marx, also, who famously said historical events recur, happen twice, the first is the tragedy, the second time is farce. John kerry said this is our munich moment, the moment we stand up to dictators. Unfortunately, it turns out that it was kind of a munich moment to a much lower scale where we did not stand up to a dictator. I think that is worrisome because as we were saying about the spanish civil war, we were led to war, 9, 10 months later, munich was fought too late to avoid a major war. I think that is still the moment i dont think things have degenerated to the point of 1938, but it was ironic that john kerry said munich moment when he thought the president was behind him, and he ended up having a president who did not have the will maybe that is not fair should not make the judgment that it was right to use force. Now we are in a ridiculous situation where we will have endless discussions with the u. N. No one really thinks that assad can get rid of all of the chemical weapons. No one thinks we know where they all are. It is the middle of a civil war. U. N. Forces are not going to be able to go in there and find them all. Russia is in the drivers seat. It is really bad to draw a red line, to call the worlds attention to this, schedule a speech to the nation, and then sort of walk away, kind of a never mind moment, you know . Host bill kristol is our guest, founder and editor of the Weekly Standard. James from louisiana, your first caller, good morning. Caller good morning, peter, mr. Kristol, since you are in washington, i was just curious if you were to tell us what percentage of the calls to the congressional switchboard are coming in for an attack on syria, and maybe what percent of the calls are saying dont attack syria. Host how do you feel about it, james . Caller im against it. I think we ought to let them settle their own disputes, and maybe if the saudis have gas under 3. 00 a gallon, but right now i am not prepared to do that. Thank you a lot. Guest i think at least for republicans, more than 90 , sometimes 99 are against intervening in what they see as a Syrian Civil War. I would point out that it is a Syrian Civil War in which iran and russia have been meeting aggressively on the side of assad, who has now used chemical weapons. There were people two years ago demonstrating that they were decent people who wanted a Decent Society and we did not help them. Now the rebel forces are more mixed, but there are still decent rebel forces. But president obama has not made the case. He has spent 4. 5 years and saying the title for his receding, we are war weary, we have got to focus on our own programs, nation building begins on, etc. Of course the public is going to say the president is the one who is supposed to be alerting us to these foreign threats, and if he things we are entitled, he cannot show up and say this guy, assad, we do not do anything about him except an occasional, that we did not like what he was doing, but hey, this guy have got to go. Obama did not even have the clarity to say this. He does not have to go, but we should use force against them, it should not be too much force, incredible a small force, actually. And im going to do it, oh, i will go to congress. I do not blame the public for being look, i do not blame individual commerce for deciding that it was such a mess that they wanted to stay out. Not a mess on the ground, but really a mess in terms of the administrations ability to execute the mission. I do think to the degree people generalize, it would be a huge lesson for america and the world to draw a lesson that we can just let all of the guys kill each other and it will not affect us. I do not think that is the lesson of history that is not the lesson of 9 11. Host on the democrats line, gwen in birmingham, alabama. Caller yes, good morning. I am a little offended as a black woman with determine knowledge. You know what, it is said some of the words that the republicans use against this president. Like bob corker. He is uncomfortable being commander in chief. I had to call his office and let him know that as a taxpaying citizen, we own the house. We are taxpaying citizens. Marsha blackburn on cnn. She is not acting like a leader. You all need to stop using terminology. Host how is that racial . Caller it is not racial, it is offensive. And i am offended as a black woman because certain terms you do not use against the president. You do not say certain things. I gained a lot of respect for president bush during his term. It is not easy being president. What a these people step up . It is not easy. They go through a lot of stuff. I mean certain terminology, yes, as a black person, we have all been there, we talk in our community, we hear things, we have words, we have terminology i mean, it needs to stop. This man is president of the United States. He is not president of a city. He is the president of all of us. Hispanics, asians, African Americans, white, everybody. We need to give him more respect. Host all right, gwen, we got the point. Bill kristol. Guest i supported the president in this case, and i would have been happy to see follow through on what he said he was going to do. Im very individual cases where there is offensive terminology, i do not think most of it is racial. President bush, as the caller pointed out, was the subject of unbelievable attacks. I think more so probably then president obama. But pretty much everything i have written i think we probably wouldve said about president john kerry, president nancy pelosi, or any other liberal who follows the same policy. Its not personal about president obama. Those who offer their judgments about the president as a human being, if the a commanding presence, is he a weak presence, is he a strong leader, a weak leader . The general dignity with which he has purported himself. But, look, it would be nice if we had a slightly less harsh public rhetoric, but as you know and you show on cspan with your studies and shows, this goes way back in American History. George washington, Thomas Jefferson were viciously attacked. I am not sure it is that much worse now with resident bush and president obama. Host have you met president obama . Guest a couple of times as senator. One time when he was president elect with a small group of conservative columnists. The one time i met him when he was president was in spring 2011 when i was supporting his intervention in libya. He had a bunch of columnists types, Foreign Policy commentators and the like into the white house the white house had us in for a little session in a room where they pertained to listen to some of your thoughts but basically are just telling you thank you for being on board and giving you their analysis of things. And the president spent about 45 minutes with us. He came out in the room the way the president really does when it comes into a group and shakes hands with each of us. I assume had been given a list of who was to come. He was a little startled by me being there. He made a joke about you are buying this, now i am a little worried. Something must be wrong. Fortunately, he did actually after intervening with libya, i and the Weekly Standard became critics of what he did not do after the international invention, which i am afraid lead to benghazi, and now he is giving speeches saying not only this not going to be iraq, not putting troops on the ground, this is not even going to be libya. You have the president of the United States constantly reassuring citizens that we do have military action, but let me read sure you it is not going to be this, that, not serious, not longterm. No boots on the ground. I think that is wrong. First thing, one thing can lead to another. You can just go into something and be assured that you are not going to have to do further things. So i think you do have to be ready to do that, prepare to do it militarily, and you need to prepare the country for that. Once military intervention it is a serious matter the president has taken the lesson from history, i suppose, he just think that either it is not necessary for us to or we just cant support, we are not economically Strong Enough of a not ready for that. I think that is a misreading really. If the president says, here is what we need to do, this is what a nuclear iran looks like, and this is what helps stop that, and heres what the consequence of that would be, i think the American People historically have been ready to step up. But they do need leadership and have not gotten as much as they should have from this president. To be fair, they have not gotten as much as they should have from the republicans. They are not in the same position at the president , obviously, they do not have the bully pulpit of the president. But a Republican Leadership in the house and senate has been pretty happy to criticize the president. Not that many have stepped forward and said this is what we need to be doing in the world. Host former chief of staff to former Vice President dan quayle, do you stay in touch with him . Guest i do. I have a very high opinion of him. He was a good Vice President. We did not do a very good job of helping him repair the damage that was done to his reputation in the 1988 campaign before i joined him in the white house. Some of that damage was unfair, too. He was not helped as much as he could have been by the bush campaign. Being thrown into the Vice President ial spot. He taught me early on when i was in washington you cannot trust the media, which is a good lesson to learn. They did manage to give him a certain image that was three difficult to shake. That was the day when there were three networks, and i was a really, cnn was for a small, that just began, rush began around 1988, 1989, but he was the only one for most of the administration. No fox news, no internet obviously. It is just harder for a few newspapers, the new york times, the washington post, there is a fight on a certain narrative about a politician. With a cover story that is online at today, it will be out monday, really, in print by Andy Ferguson on ted cruz, who is now the conservative republican who the liberal media love to demonize. I can easily go through some of the epithets that have been thrown on him. It is not a tough piece by any means on ted. His strengths and limitations perhaps a far as a leader. It is hard to do that these days. Ted cruz can go around and around the Mainstream Media and make his case and people can go online and say i just saw ted cruz speak here and he is very impressive. Of course, there are so many news outlets that people can make up their own mind watching cable news each night, watching cspan, everybody else, about ted cruz. Almost 25 years ago now with dan quayle. A lot of people complained about in washington. Im a big fan of cable news. People get all kinds of crazy ideas. I think on the whole, it has been a good thing. Host next call for bill kristol comes from brenda in montana, democrats line. Caller good morning. Boy, i am with that other woman. You know, the people from the media that call and just get their poison pens out and start writing all this bad stuff about president obama, they dont even want to call him president. It is pretty nasty. I dont know why you, bill kristol, want to do that. You talk like you were in the war room, you talk like you were in the secret meeting with putin. You do not know what is the exact, what is being done. You guys just want to armchair quarterback the whole thing. It is ridiculous. Guest in fact, i supported the president s request for authorization of force. We are going to comment on events that have not happened. We have russia acknowledged on the outside of people in the president s staff meeting or sitting in with kerry and lavrov. I dont think the president has had a very hostile media. He had an incredibly favorable media in 2007, 2008. If you have a candid conversation, they will acknowledge it and take credit for working the media very hard. They made him the night in shining armor, the insurgent against hillary clinton. If you talk to the clinton people, they are still a bitter maybe bitter is not quite right, but envious of the ability of obamas to work the media. The president himself is good at that. If look at network tv, the president has gotten more than a fair chance to make his case. Host bill is in reading, pa, republican line. Caller ive been watching you for many years. You are a smart man. I heard you the other day on fox, i was listening to you, and you are 100 right. Syria is a dangerous place right now. We had five president s that won the war, and what did we accomplish . Nothing. I came from greece 55 years ago, i had to work to make a living, and i had money because i worked. Thats what this country gets you. It gives you the opportunity to work so you can be successful. But these people dont want to work. If they dont like this country, i will pay for the first banana boat to ship them back guest we can afford to have a strong country at home. I am very in favor regarding the work. We do have programs at the federal level which probably should be reformed because they do award nonwork more than relative to work. Moving up, 30, 40, 50 years ago, one of the worries republicans havent addressed the slowdown of social mobility and upward opportunity over the last 10, 20 years. That is up and under republican and democratic president s. That is an important policy agenda for the republican party. But we do not spend that much on defense. Even the recent wars on their height was 1 to gdp, our totally signatures now, is less than 5 of our gross domestic product. It is well worth to spend a nickel, six cents, seven cents on the dollar. If we can stop islamic extremism from taking over the middle east, i think it is a very sound investment. I think it is a mistake to say lets not involve because we cannot afford to. Host bill kristol, september 30 is coming, and the government shutdown, how will you feel about that, and should republicans take some action . Guest i suppose. We will have to see what those conditions are. Usually we talk about a government shutdown, and in 1995, that is not what it was. There were parts of the governments that were funded, prorated, and i have got to assume that what up again, military, medicare, all that. I think the sequester, which was a pretty striking series of cuts in defense spending, they are republican that were dedicated. He went out said this would be a disaster, the white house will rise up in arms. There really are a lot of government workers, government workers who indirectly depend on government contracts. The effects were pretty minimal. You could cut 3 , 5 from a lot of programs in the short term and not see much effect. Not in any eventual individual case, someone might have been furloughed, but in general, not a huge social turmoil and unhappiness during the sequester. I dont know that that means that you could do that does not mean you can do a whole government shutdown. That does not mean you can do a cut spending 40 , which is what you have to cut probably to get the debt ceiling, but it does mean there is plenty of room to save money. I am worried about defense. Sequester is fine, you get domestic saving, spending, i am for that, but you are giving up a lot of defense cuts. And we are now stretched very thin. If we dont intervene anywhere, if you think the world is going to be peaceful, though chemical weapons are within reach of al qaeda and we are not going to do anything, if that is your view, that is fine, we just bomb a few people and that is not expensive. But if you think we need to have Forward Deployed navy bases and soldiers, marines ready to go ashore if need be, if you think there are threats around the world, and if you think it is good for us and for the world to be able to keep these threats from getting to deter these threats before they get severe, we need to have a pretty substantial defense establishment. These cuts are serious there. Im told the navy is really straining to even do with the president ordered it to do just to prepare for a possible syrian intervention and also prepare for things getting out of control there. Even if we chose not to intervene. Theyre going through the sequester money now faster than sequester levels. Were cutting that to close. It is not worth it. It is too risky. An awful lot of it comes out of defense it i am not a big fan of sequester. Host jessica in florida, thank you for holding, calling on our independent line. Caller im glad to be on. My issue is with the congress not doing anything. If i dont do my job, i get fired, so they dont do their job, they ought to be able to be fired. Checks and balances, it is not balancing out. We have all this Political Polarization going on when our country the infrastructure is crumbling, we have got no jobs. We need to spend money to make money. If the rich dont want to create the jobs, they can go and get out of the country completely. That is all i have to say. Guest well, i think you can say voters are able to fire members of congress and they have done it quite a lot in recent years. In 2006, 2008, they fired a lot of republicans, in 2007, they fired a lot of democrats. A lot of the new programs that are being prevented, perhaps, are programs that deserve to be prevented from coming into being. The government does good and often does that. So i am less pessimistic than the caller is about the current situation. If you had said four years ago after the financial crisis would be where we are, that is not as bad as people expected. I think obamas policies are hurting the regulatory policies, obamacare. We have reduce unemployment. Im very worried about the long term unemployment of both the young and middleaged workers who have lost their jobs and are having trouble getting back. I think that is important policy. I cannot say honestly that either party had that many good ideas what to do about that. And i think obamacare will hurt the country. I will be happy if they get delayed and then repealed. I think the country is not suffering as much as some people say from gridlock in washington. Host bill kristol, Vladimir Putin does not think we should call ourselves exceptional anymore. Guest maybe you should be a regular contributor to the new york times. It was very well written, if you like to be dictators. It was humiliating. It looks for media day there that putin was going to give president obama the easy way out of the syria crisis and give him the diplomatic fig leaf and not rub salt in the wound, and he clearly is interested now in humiliating the president. I am not happy about that. Im not happy about the democrat president being humiliated by a foreign dictator. There is something bizarre about publishing it. Here is another conservator giving his opinion. Yes, he does not like the idea of americans saying that there is something exceptional or impressive about our combination of bureaucracy and Self Government and limited government and rule of law and the like. And of course he would not like that because he does not believe in most of those things. So, i am happy one of the problems apparently is that i suspect it will mute whatever criticisms we were making towards what putin has been doing at home, murdering journalists and suppressing political criticism and freedom of speech and antigay legislation and the like. I am worried that now we will be so invested in hoping that putin is nice to us that we will mute our support for our principles in russia and elsewhere. Host kate on our democrat line in california. Caller i am very concerned about the people who are advising the president. Yesterday, i saw were Henry Kissinger was talking to the president how he should deal with russia. Yesterday was the 40th anniversary of the chilean coup that kissinger and nixon instigated, killing thousands of people and subjecting them to a government for 17 years. Henry kissinger should have been tried with nixon for war crimes, and he should already have been executed. People were absolutely surprised that Henry Kissinger is still going into the white house and getting advice to the president. It is truly disgusting. Host bill kristol, do you know mr. Kissinger . Guest i do know him. Ive had my criticisms of him. I came from the Ronald Reagan school of Foreign Policy. He certainly was a favor of detente. I think the nixonkissinger and administration supported the chilean coup. I do not think they were responsible for it. Maybe they could put more pressure not to commit human rights abuses he committed. At the end of the day, that did yield to a democratic government. I was down there. It was a nice occasion. There are dictators who do bad things, and we should try to prevent them from doing so, but also dont destroy their countries and do lay the groundwork for the country and enough got in a good place. At the time, the choice was not attractive in chile. I do not know if Henry Kissinger did the right thing or not. He is not a war criminal. It would be interesting to be in the meeting. I know that kissinger, he has said this publicly, has been very worried about the decline of american prestige in the world. Whether you are a kissinger type or a reagan aggressive Foreign Policy guy, you do believe that the u. S. Is in a descent. 40 years ago, was of course the Nixon Administration helped israel and we supplied israel and turned the tide of the war, which then led to egypt switching sides from the soviet union to the u. S. , which really began a long period in the middle east where the u. S. Had the upper hand, and for all the troubles in the middle east, did lead to a fair amount of peace, at least lead to some progress in certain areas, including an israeliegyptian peace accord, an israelijordan peace accord. We had invited the russians back in, the russians were the biggest suppliers of a run of iran to assad, letting the russians come into the center of the action in the middle east. Kissinger dealt with the soviets because he thought he had to. He thought we were in a relatively weak position after vietnam. But bringing russia back in, that is a whole different story. Host what was your fathers opinion of the jimmy carter middle east Peace Agreement that he worked on . Guest he was a critic of carters middle east agreement. I do not think he had a problem of the Peace Agreement. It is not that different today. He came to israel and initiated that peace talk out of fear that the u. S. Was backing out, ironically. Then carter sort of stepped back up and helped make the peace treaty a reality, but we were sending all kinds of signals of weakness. He was very worried about soviet resurgence and thought maybe we could get peace now with israel. That will stop the ability of soviets to fish in troubled waters there. I dont want to begrudge jimmy carter credit for diligently working on a campaign, but i honestly think Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger deserve more credit for laying the groundwork for that peace treaty than jimmy carter. Host please go ahead with your comments. Caller on putin, i think he is suffering from delusions of adequacy. I grew up in dan quayles home town until i graduate from college. I spent 28 years in the United States air force as a pilot. I started my career in vietnam, and i have flown combat missions. Desert storm, i helped plan conduct missions. If were going to use military power, we have to have a Compelling National Interest, and that interest must be made known to the American People. George h w these did that bush did that with desert storm. Once the americans going, you cannot say it is not a war just because you do not have troops on the ground. I was in the air force. I know what airpower can do. Trust me, the people on the receiving end of that airpower think is a war, even if there are no troops. I am opposed into going into syria on two fronts. One, there is not been Compelling National Interest that we need to go in there and we cannot do it just makes me feel good. The other thing, you cannot do what has been called a pinprick. I also spent time in a nuclear war business. War is war is war. You cannot just have a little war or a nice war or a war just because some he wants to do it. It is just not right. That comes from 28 years in the United States air force. Host all right, i think we got your point. Lets get a response from mr. Kristol. Guest thank you for your service. As i said earlier, i think you need to be prepared for escalation and prepared for a unforeseen eventualities. The enemy gets a vote, other third parties like putin get a vote. John kerrys and the president s rhetoric are very close to that. I do think there are Compelling National Interest there, not letting a dictator getting away with using chemical weapons. Especially with the president of the United States said that is not acceptable and it is a redline line. Other people think we can live that alone, and it is not lead to anything happening here or happening to close allies or further escalation where iran can get nuclear weapons, and rhetoric are very close to that. I do think there are Compelling National Interest there, not letting a dictator getting away that would lead to threats against us. I know war is war and it should not be lighthearted, but we intervened in bosnia, kosovo, panama, and those interventions were successful and could be limited. I think it helped stabilize situations, helped prevent ethnic cleansing, helped get rid of a dictator in the case of milosevic. It could have fallen apart in southeastern europe. I think you have to make it is a tough judgment and you should not be cavalier about it. But i do not wish to paralyze ourselves. President bush did an excellent job laying the groundwork and we do not have the whole country with this. If it intervened in january of 1991. We had already gotten the Security Council authorization. None the less, the vote in the senate was 5247. 85 probably of the Democratic Senators voted against it. It was not because they did not like president bush. They thought it was unwise. There was no need to get saddam out of kuwait. See you can have honest differences of opinion. You sometimes do go to war with a pretty divided country, i think americans tend to rally once you were engaged in combat. Airpower is powerful, but im sure there are limits, as im sure the caller would agree. Which is why i am nervous when he says president obama says over and over and many others do too, no boots on the ground, no boots on the ground. It is just irresponsible. If you are going to start something, you need to be ready. What if al qaeda is about to get a hold of chemical weapon somewhere in syria or for that matter somewhere in pakistan . Are they so convinced that we would not want to deploy marines if we had a reasonable shot of preventing al qaeda from getting a hold of those weapons . You cannot just deploy 300 of them. You then have to have 3000 or 30,000, etc. , so what you do need to be serious about war. We need a reasonable size defense establishment. These days with cruise missiles and drones and airpower, you do not need lots of soldiers and marines, you dont need lots of backup, you do not need the ships it is not right. If you are serious about maintaining some modicum of force order, you need adequate offenses. We are already getting close to the position that we are undercutting our ability simply to do what minimally we need to be able to do in the world. Host 10 years out from the start of the iraq war, what is your inspected today . Guest we were wrong he was wrong about his thought process of weapons of mass destruction. He had of course use chemical weapons before. I think it was a roller coaster, obviously. There were too few troops on the ground in the beginning. We were critical of rumsfeld and bush for the conduct with the war. I think they were unfortunately right that they did not adjust until the end of 2006. So i really regret the 2004 to 2006 period where we analytically had it right, but the world was not adjusted well, and it was unnecessarily it did not go well for us and for our soldiers and marines and the iraqi people. Tragically, that was that the search worked. General petraeus, soldiers on the ground in iraq, something that will be in the history books. By the end of 2008, it was for a peaceful, quiet peaceful. The civil government in place there, the communities were living sidebyside, and then to sort of not negotiate a force agreement that allowed us to give some troops there and have some leverage, and i was beginning to degenerate into civil war. If theres a connection between the al qaeda strength in syria and the resurgents in iraq, that becomes extremely dangerous, and we got so the president s cabinet against the iraq war, fine. He took over a situation where a minimal effort could have preserved the gates remain in iraq, but he was so concerned just to be able to say i got us out of iraq that he frittered away very hardwon gains. Host would you advocate going in today knowing what you know in the same situation . Guest that is hard to say because so much arguing for the word came because of the weapons for mass destruction. I certainly would have advocated i did want to get rid of saddam. By leaving him in power, we left a dictator who used chemical weapons and power. Clinton had to deal with that in 1998, bush wouldve had to do something. There was huge pressure to remove the sanctions. I think if we had backed off, even knowing they do not have the weapons of mass destruction, i think that would have been a horrible signal to dictators elsewhere in the middle east. I remain a defender of that war. I thought the intelligence was bad. For me, again, the tragedy of iraq is having done a pretty extraordinary thing, i think ordering the surge against Public Opinion in the end of 2006, i give soldiers, marines, the rest of the armed forces a huge amount of credit for carrying it out in 2007, 2008, to squander to those gains, i look back unhappy. Host eric, new york city, independent line, you are the last call. Caller im calling about the intelligence about the chemical weapons that you said assad used. Where is the specific evidence . Is it going to be like iraq 10 years from now, finding out that if i did not use chemical weapons, that it was staged . As for that oped part by president putin, they say the truth hurts. Also, for all of the christians, why are we concerned about the christians in syria . Those poor people will be destroyed. Host bill kristol, final word. Guest i think the gathering of evidence is overwhelming. They have the chemical weapons. The opposition does not. The weapons of mass secretary kerry said, were used in ways that we have a lot of intelligence that the regime knew about their use, condones their use, they were used against Opposition Forces that were making progress in a suburbs of damascus. If people want to believe that president obama, secretary kerry, the entire u. S. Intelligence apparatus is lying, they can do that. But the left wants to support president obama here, president bush did not knowingly lie about the intelligence on iraq. That was more speculative. This is actual use of weapons of mass destruction. I do not think the entire u. S. Government would be making up describing responsibility being fiction about who was responsible for such use. The christian persecution throughout the middle east is a terrible thing. It has been happening for a long time unfortunately. There is a limit to what the u. S. Can do about that. Assad has protected the christians to some degree. To my friends who say that we have not intervened against assad for the last two years, which has been a time of great destruction for the civil the civil war caused by assad as much of anything. You can put on the opposition, but these were people rising up against the dictator. I think ultimately the best bet for any community in the middle east is obviously peace and obviously a decent government that somewhat representative of the public, and i dont think you will see forever an alawite, sectarian government, which is a dictatorship. Alawites are what, 90 of the population . Governing everyone else. The majority will not be nice to minority, they do not have a reputation for that in the middle east, unfortunately. If everyone else is to be strong and engaged, i think the fact that if we withdraw it is not going to get better for them, it will get worse. Host bill kristol, founder and editor of the Weekly Standard, the new edition is online, weeklystandard. Com. Thank you so much for being on the washington journal. On the next washington cia operativeer Michael Hurley will talk about threats to the u. S. From al qaeda. Plus, alan gomez on immigration. People in washington moving between careers in business consulting, politics and government. Washington journal live every morning at 7 00 a. M. On cspan. Discussion about the 2008 financial crisis and what has been learned from then. Then president obama with the emea are of kuwait. Later, stand your ground laws. Theresident obama with mthe emir of kuwait. Include panelists barney frank, bill thomas, and Douglas Holtz he can. Posted by the American Action for them, this is an hour and a half. [applause] i need to start off by saying how disappointed i am, not i the panel, but i thought i had my