Use the ranking democratic member of the Senate Appropriations committee, and a member and onetime chair of the Senate Judiciary committee. He is the dean of the senate which means he is the longestserving in this summit in the fifth longestserving senator in u. S. History. Thank you for being with us. Senator leahy thank you very much. Let me introduce our reporters, the chief Congressional Correspondent and for the Washington Examiner and the congressional reporter for the Los Angeles Times and chicago tribune. Both returning to our set today. Thanks her being here. As we start this thursday afternoon, we have just heard the trump travel ban has had another downturn in the federal court. Im wondering what your reaction is to this and is this headed for the Supreme Court . Sen. Leahy its interesting. The ninth circuit already knocked it down. Now the Fourth Circuit has knocked it down. This next one is a more liberal circuit and knocked it down. A more conservative one knocked it down. There is not a split in the circuit so you dont have an automatic it will not automatically go to the Supreme Court. The question the administration has asked itself do they really want to appeal to the Supreme Court . Even a conservative Supreme Court is apt to rule the same way . I think the Trump Administration has a right to screen people coming into this country and we do. We have some of the toughest screenings in the world long , before President Trump. They can say ok, we will stick with what we have and make sure its done right. That if i was advising them as , counsel, they have not asked for my advice, i would advise them, ok, you lost twice to two prestigious courts of appeal, you lost. Let it go. Host couldnt you argue that given the makeup of the Supreme Court that a more favorable outcome might be possible . Senator leahy you would think that normally, but when you read these decisions and you read the background that when it to them, im not sure the Supreme Court would change. They would almost have to make law to change. You cant have a ban that no matter how you read it comes out one religion is favored over another. Thats not the american way. No matter how they describe it. You can say that some countries where we have had problems, for example saudi arabia the president was just there one of our two biggest attacks in the United States were from 9 11 were from saudi arabia. The other one was Oklahoma City and that was an american who had served in our military. Although the Obama Administration identified the countries in the travel ban as emerging threats. Senator leahy sure, and thats not a problem by itself if you say what are the threats you are looking for. Every administration has a right to do that. To screen for it. But this was done in a blanket way and it was so obviously done for the oft repeated pledge during his Campaign Donald j. Trump will allow no muslims in this country. You cant do that. You cannot single out one religion over another. We have seen in our past history where some had thought to do that. Employment and every thing else. Catholics, jews, certain nationalities, germans, italians and others, irish were a greater country than that. We dont do that. Speak to the threat. Say what the threat is, but dont let everybody because of their nationality as a terrorist threat. What do you make of how doing so far . He has gotten some good reviews in the press and positive responses from foreign leaders. How do you think he is portraying himself over there . Senator leahy i have said with great pleasure that he stayed on script. I dont know who wrote the script but he stayed on it. He did not have middle of the night tweets on everything from nuclear war to who im going to ban. That is good. These are countries where we should have a relation. The saudis did very well. They are getting weapons without the kind of human rights restrictions that most have had before. Those in his own administration feel his secretary of commerce says there was not a single protest. They dont allow protests. Thats why. They lock them up. I have said this for both republicans and democrats that have been here if you can bring about peace, a real peace a lasting peace between the , israelis and the palestinians, i will back that all the way. But know this. It will not be done by just words. We want to turn back to capitol hill and while the president was away, he sent his budget up to the capital. Of course it landed with a bit of a thud on both sides. They seemed to rejected. Normal of the president s budgets not to be below. It does not seem congress will have anything close to a budget this year. You are the top appropriator for the democrats and we have a few months on the next funding deadline. The fiscal year runs out. Are there any talks behind the scenes for a new spending agreement . Are we heading towards a shutdown . Senator leahy the only ones who can shut it down as the republicans. They are in charge. I became vice chairman of one of the two committees this year, of appropriations. I like appropriations and i like the mechanics of it and i like the fact that we often work in a bipartisan fashion. We got a bill through, as you know, just a month ago to make sure we did not have a shutdown. It was entirely different than what the white house as we were negotiating, there were long negotiations, bipartisan negotiations. The white house said unless there are dramatic cuts and unless there is money to build the wall on the mexican border, they would probably veto it. My response is lets have both the house of representatives republicancontrolled, and the , senate, republican controlled, vote up or down on whether we we will pay for a wall, a 40 billion wall along the mexican border. Well nobody is going to call , that to a vote because it would not pass. Republicans would not want to vote for it so that was taken out. Then we set down to real things and we passed a real budget. We can do that again. I did a meeting with both republicans and democrats and set in the Appropriations Committee it sounds arcane to go regular order but what it means is take up each one of the appropriation bills, take the contentious issues and either vote for them or vote against them. Then bring a bill to the house and the senate and let them vote on it. We have done that in the past. We did it with both republican president s and democratic president s. When we do, the voice of the American People is heard. If we simply rubberstamp something, the voice of the American People is not heard. What do you make of the president as a negotiator on these budget matters . Will he get a better deal next time . Senator leahy i was one of the big four in the final negotiations to negotiations. I never heard a word from the white house. What do you make of him as a negotiator . Senator leahy its hard to tell. I mean nobody called me. I was happy with the result. They had about 160 some odd poison pill riders and we got rid of virtually all of them. Sure it can be done but we had , very good republicans and democrats who actually wanted to make it work. A lot of times the public does not see that. There are a number of us there who have enough experience enough concern about the , country, in both parties, who want to make it work. We can do that on the budget. In fact, if there is one area, compare that to the Party Line Vote on trumpcare. Trumpcare passed and now they find that 20 million or more people will be taken off trumpcare, taken off having any health care. If you have a number of preexisting conditions, you will not be able to get insurance unless you pay far more money than you can afford. Medicaid is being cut dramatically. Now had that been explained, it never would have passed. I think people are concerned with the budget. I jokingly said to some republicans, would you vote up or down on the trump budget . They said wouldnt you have love that . Because it would not have passed. I think they realize lets not , buy something sight unseen. Lets sit down undo it the right and do it the right way. Before we get to health care, i want to ask you about the new deadline coming up for the debt ceiling. Do you think there will be a standoff over the debt ceiling . What will happen with the senator leahy i dont know. The republicans have to decide whether they want to be they want to raise it or if they want United States to go into default. Will the democrats hold up the debt ceiling vote . Senator leahy i would like to see an up or down vote on it. There are a lot of things where we have to come together. For example, we have this investigation into russia. Almost every day new material comes out showing how heavily involved russia was in our election. They are not interested in us. They are interested in having control here. Weve got to have more public hearings. General flynn has taken the fifth, i understand that. Attorney general sessions was supposed to assign to different two different committees and he backed out. Lets let the American Public find out. Thats something that both parties want to see. In terms of the investigation into russia, it sounds like in some instances, the federal end of this thing, which will be run by former fbi director Robert Mueller is taking precedence over congressional actions by saying we have a priority when we want to interview witnesses and in terms of material. Is that going to make it harder for congress to do any kind of investigation . Senator leahy i dont think its in either or thing. A lot of the people know the most about it should appear before the house and senate in open hearing and testify. We have had some of this stuff some of this testimony already, the former director of intelligence, the former head of the cia, theyve testified. I think mr. Comey will come forward to testify. But the only one so far who has refused to testify is general flynn who said he will take the fifth. I have had people ask me about that. Surprisingly i defended him on , that. I was a prosecutor for eight years. I prosecuted some really big criminals at that time, major criminals. They took the fifth. I said they have a right to take the fifth no matter what the crime being charged. How would you answer critics who feel that democrats are politicizing the whole russia connection, that there has been no established link proven between trump and the russians and even though its taking a political tone at this point . Senator leahy every hearing that has been held has been called by a republican chairman. In everyone of them, more things come out showing russia is involved. Not to the president , its around the edges. Senator leahy i have not heard many people say it is trump in congress. I said lets find out how russia is involved. I dont know anybody who will honestly say that russia did not try to influence our election. And i would like to find anybody who thinks that russia is really doing things in the best interest of the United States. There are parts that will eventually be declassified which will show the extent of russias involvement. You can take it for granted. For example, you folks in the press were kept out of the meeting with photos of the meeting with President Trump and the foreign minister of russia and the Russian Ambassador. The Russian Ambassador has been so connected with the things they have done wrong. They bring in a russian photographer. Everybody knows who this russian photographer is going to report to. That picture is an embarrassment to the white house was on the front page of virtually every newspaper, everybody elses around the world the next day. , then they said we dont have a transcript of the meeting. Russia says we will give you a transcript. Do you suppose there is any possibility that that camera had a recording mechanism in it . Heavens for bid. Permit. Heavens for bid. What would be your top question to former director comey . You are the former chairman of the judiciary, what line of questions, what would you want to hear . Senator leahy i think there were mistakes made. It is premature. I would ask where did the trails lead . Not only between americans who were being used by the russians , but which russians do we know . A lot of that i would hope could be done in open session. Some of it is going to have to be in a classified session, but there is enough evidence to show it. I dont think anybody who has looked at this objectively, republican or democrat, would say russia was not involved and did not want to have continuing involvement. The reason that is important is if they can get away with it in the United States, the greatest democracy on earth, dont you think that they will try and europe, the baltic states, and in the middle east. There are other places where russia, especially under putin, one of the weltys people wealthiest people in the world, is going to want to show their influence. How can they be held accountable if you find a connection . Senator leahy we will not go over to arrest people in moscow, but i think the exposure helps. The exposure shows what to look for. The exposure tells you that when a story is reported, finding with the real source is. You had general flynn saying i cannot vouch for it but you should look at this story. That Hillary Clinton is running sex trafficking out of a pizza store in washington. Thats absurd on its face, but how many hundreds of thousands of people pick that up is true . We have seven minutes left. We have to go back to health care. What is your thought . Is obamacare you to stay or rover publicans in the senate field of the together repeal and replacement . And democrats we see these , rising premiums, insurers pulling out of the market what responsibility do democrats have to bring some ideas to the table to maybe help republicans solve this . Senator leahy thats a valid question. For six years, the republican said we will repeal and replace. President trump said a week or 10 days after taking office, he would have a plan to repeal and replace. A few weeks later when nothing shows up, he said its more complicated than i thought. It is complicated. I think everybody agrees on that. Can improvements be made to the Affordable Care act, as you call it obamacare . , of course. And Social Security and medicare first came out everybody said this should be improved and that should be improved and over the years it , was improved. I look at bob dole and pat moynihan, a conservative republican and a liberal democrat coming together to save Social Security. While, look at the things you want. You want children to stay on your health care, finish college and go on. Youve a preexisting condition, diabetes or whatever you should , be able to get health care. It should be affordable, not just for the wealthy but for everybody out there. Having said that, that can be done but we have some very good people in the house and senate in both parties. They say lets take what we have, lets take out whats not working and go to what is working. We spent more on health care than any other country in the world. We are not the healthiest country in the world. That should tell us something. Do you think republicans in the senate will be able to get a bill passed this year to repeal and replace . Senator leahy i think republicans realize there is no way on gods green earth they will pass this cobbled together monstrosity that came out of the house of representatives. I call it that to give it the benefit of the doubt. They know they will have to find something better. I have heard that Majority Leader Mitch Mcconnell say democrats come work with us. I have heard democrats say republicans, work with us. Why hasnt it happened . Senator leahy i think it will start more in a private way rather than the old ways. Look at the success we have had. It was such a success that it went through with almost no notice. We got the budget through. Thats because a number of us and i was there for every bit of , it, and we actually sat down and did our work. I refuse to call any press conferences during it. We just wanted to work and get it done and my republican counterparts did not call any press conferences. We just got done and all of a sudden, here it is in a passed overwhelmingly in both the house and the senate. The same thing could be done in health care. I am the dean of the senate so i have a nice office in the capital. A great view, balcony, a great view of the mall. Oftentimes in the evening for the sunset view, i invite republicans and democrats who like to come for an hour and prayer our and holy water. But no press. That is why we have common ground. What i learned when i first came to the senate is when you see leading giants of the republican party, giants of the Democratic Party sitting down together and working things out, i believe it can be done. I would not have run this last time if i did not think it could be done. I have a beautiful Old Farmhouse in vermont, wonderful grandchildren around. Being there is a lot easier than doing this. But i think it can be done. We have two minutes left, do you have some final questions . Thinking of trying to get something done. It seems to be a bipartisan effort. Maybe now a little bit of cold water thrown on that with the justice department. What is your sense . Senator leahy Jeff Sessions was opposed to any real reform. All the time he was in the senate. He was usually in the minority of both republicans and democrats. Andy Senate Judiciary committee. I think it has to be done. We are spending 25 or 30 of the Department Just as budget on prisons and it does not do much of anything. If youve got serious criminals, of course lock them up. But you have a lot of crimes that are minor crimes people are , getting locked up, especially young people. What kind of job will they get when they get out . These are things that couldve been handled much differently. I was a top prosecutor. I prosecuted a lot of people. I tried to show sense of who should be prosecuted and who should not. And i am fighting we had meetings now, republicans and democrats. Rand paul and i are a lot different philosophically. We have legislation to try to change this. We have one minute left. A very different topic. You were one of the coauthors of a letter signed by 17 different senators to the Trump Foundation asking for more detailed information about the president s trust and your concern over violation of the emollient clause of the constitution. Have you heard back . If you havent or dont hear back, what really leverage the you have with your concerns . Senator leahy i would hope they would respond. If they dont, there are steps we can take in hearings and elsewhere but i would hope that the Trump Organization realizes this is important to the country. You want to know what steps are being taken to enrich yourself or to enrich the country. The emolument clause has always been there. Its affected every single president in history. He cannot use the office to enrich himself. There are so many dealings where there appears to be conflict of interest. Lets find out if there are or not. And if you dont hear back from him . Senator leahy lets wait to see it we dont. There are steps that can be taken. Senator, thats it for us. We have covered a lot of different subjects. Thank your being our guest. Senator leahy thank you for inviting me. Newsmakers is back after our conversation with senator patrick leahy, no caps off vermont. The dean of the senate, the longestserving senator. I want to start with health care. Susan, said in your reporting that both democrats and republicans saying if we can just work with the other side. Today, thursday as we record this, we had an interview with the majority leader. In an exquisite interview, mcconnell said health care and taxes still top the republican legislative agenda. He added he will not reach out to the minority democrats on either one because differences between the two parties are to start. And they dont need to stark. To and they dont need to necessarily if they use the budgetary procedure that allows 51 votes. Then they would not need any democrats and they would block a democratic filibuster eliminating the 60 votes threshold but that would only come into play if they can get agreement amongst themselves on health care and they are not right now which i think its valid. The rhetoric that mcconnell the rhetoric is what we all Work Together when in fact no one has officially sat down and work as a group. There is a very Small Working Group having bipartisan discussions about a bill authored by bill cassidy of louisiana, a republican and Susan Collins of maine, another republican. They have some democrats in the room talking about health care reform. Sometimes a deal can germinate from those small groups. That may happen if republicans cannot get to a deal themselves right now. They dont have the 50 votes they need and they are just now beginning to write legislation. Things could shape up. They dont have a lot of time. The other point of the conversation was the president s budget. In your reporting on capitol hill, what is been the reaction to it and where does it go from here . The budget really did not get much backing from either side. Of course democrats would be against it, but republicans also were really against it. I think what we are seeing is the situation on capitol hill where there has been so much partisanship and some is so much fighting for so long that there is a bit of weariness setting in. You are seeing on the Health Care Bill that republicans are having such a hard time coming to an agreement on that. Yet, there are problems affecting residents in all the states. The problems for democrats and republicans with the rising premiums and the lack of insurers. I think there are people talking about ways they can try to Work Together. Now it is a far, far distance , from here to there to get to any kind of agreement on health care, budget, the next hurdle, tax reform. But we are in the First Six Months of this new congress and administration. There have not been a lot of big victories. This is the time to do legislating before the campaign start. I think people would like to see some stuff happen. I dont know that that will really be though. Sequestration has been the order of the day in this town for a few years. Senator leahy is a critic of it and want to get back to the regular order. How much support for regular order in the budget process is there among the people . They can stop sequestration with a regular order. They just have to write their budget line under the cap thats put in place. Nobody wants that cap, they want get rid of it. Particularly the defense hawks who feel it hurts the military. There is a great desire to get rid of sequestration. You hear that from republicans and democrats. The problem is how to do it. That was part of a deal thats 10 years long. They dont have a way to get out of it, so that will be making a pending deal tough by the end of the year. They have to figure out what to do with sequestration and whether or not to spill out these bills in regular order meaning passing 12 , appropriations bill and passing them its a law separately. The trend over many years has been that if they cant get a deal on a separate bill, that so at the end we have a on u. S. Bill passed by a small number of people and thats becoming increasingly unpopular. They are already starting the appropriations process late because they were stuck on last years spending bills so , thats working against them and there is a lot of politics involved in terms of what President Trump wants in the bills and what democrats will resist. That tells me individual spending bills in regular order will be difficult this year. But as senator leahy said, they will at least try. Finally, senator leahy, the former chair of the Judiciary Committee and former prosecutor had this advice for the Trump Administration on a travel ban let it go. How will that be received as the Trump Administration thursday had another set of bad news from the federal court . Yeah, if they bring us to the Supreme Court, do they want to take that risk . And how many republicans are backing the president on this . This issue as it has been challenged in court has not been embraced by republicans on capitol hill. It does not seem like an issue that they want to go to town over. But it was a big Campaign Promise by President Trump to ensure the safety of americans by having more stringent vetting, etc. We are in a heightened time of terrorism. Thats been happening unfortunately on a regular basis. I think its an issue he may push to the Supreme Court. Of course with justice gorsuch, it is the scales back in favor of a more conservative court. They may make that gamble. It is memorial week. We think we will have a quiet week and a busy june ahead on the comeback. Thank you for being our guests on newsmakers. In 1979 cspan was created by americas Cable Television companies. It is brought you today by your cable or satellite provider. On capitol hill this week, Homeland Security secretary john spendingended proposed cuts outlined in the 2018 budget request. He testified that since 9 11, state and local governments were more prepared to deal with national security