Transcripts For CSPAN Media Coverage Of Religion 20140420

Positive earnings and beating projections. Not in every case but insignificant cases. That plus the capital requirements, they were in Better Capital shape. I am wondering what those two things should indicate to the public about where the large institutions are. They are certainly in better shape than they were at armageddon were to happen tomorrow and we had another terrible situation like 2008. As you think theres any question these banks have more cushion and more capital and that they would be less likely to panic in the same way that we saw the markets do at that time. Pockets are good. These guys are very smart. They know how to take the regulatory changes and figure. Ut a way to make money off one of the really interesting questions Going Forward is it these big thanks to continue to be such a full big banks continue to be successful in things ratcheting up even due to, what does that their viability . What is that due to the small guys who are trying to compete . It is interesting. A lot of time the regulations filtered down to the Smaller Community institutions. Over the years of they can continue to stick around it will be interesting. By2008 was precipitated Financial Instruments all around the housing market. The legislative redo in congress right now . It is extremely important. It is great to see theres some movement from the senate and the house. Like the governor said, it is unlikely we will see much in the way of an actual bill heading to the floor by the end of this year because of the stalemate in congress. They issuee rules disturbing to play out. While it is still early to see whether it has had much of an impact on Community Banks as well as larger banks, what we did notice is a lot of the things that were reporting decent earnings is because we are reducing the expenses by laying off thousands of people within their mortgage units. This is kind of holding the market up. This is pretty much petered out. Has not gottenl up to a healthy position where we can see the recovery is nice and solid. Is the stalemate housesenate or democrat republican or both . Both. Will it take a post election for congress to do with these issues . I think so. Why do we go through this incredibly arduous process . , the realtors, the homebuilders, so many Interest Groups involved when you try to pass a law like that. Withoutrd to do it getting people angry at you, frankly. The incentive for a member of congress to do that is not very high. It is so polarized now. Thank you for having me. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2014] will talk torston the National Press club. She will finish her term on april 23 to become president and ceo of the National Safety council. We will bring you her remarks live and on 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan2 and we will look at russian politics. That conversation at the Heritage Fund dacian will happen live at 10 00 a. M. Eastern here on cspan. There is a tremendous amount of passion about this story, even today. All one has to do is go onto amazon and see that i have amassed 20 51 star reviews in the book is not even been out a week. It is a 600 page book. In guessing not many of the one star review writers have read this book. My next my last book was about goldman sachs. Is in another realm altogether. Look at the duke lacrosse scandal at 2006. Tonight at 8 00 on q a. Next, a speak on Media Coverage of religion with jane little. She became the first religious Affairs Correspondent for the Bbc World Service. Address at the university of colorado conference is about one hour and 10 minutes. Thank you. How i follow that. It is a pleasure and a great privilege to be with you tonight. I am grateful to professor stuart and to the provost for inviting me to come here and share some of my experiences in covering religion and the ways in which my team, the beat, evolved over the last two decades of my career, which has been largely focused on religion as a correspondent, editor, and presenter, or host, as you say here. That is on both sides of the atlantic. That is where my experience is, but i am interested in coverage of religion from all parts of the world. Ive come full circle. Stewart, who helped first launch me on my path, though i doubt he knows that it was while doing an undergraduate dissertation that i read his illuminating book on the subject. I read it on a beach at uc santa barbara, as i recall. That certainly accentuated the positive qualities. It did not inspire me to follow in the footsteps of pat robertson. But i created my own different version of electronic evangelism, when i set up with the Bbc World Service. It took some zeal for the subject, a dollop of ambition, and a dose of faith. Fellow journalism student and astrologer, who insisted on doing my birth chart, told me that as an extreme sagittarian, i was destined to become a preacher, teacher, or journalist. I guess i combined all three. I have always had a fascination for the role that religion plays in public life, particularly in america, where it is richly paradoxical, the nation with the soul of the church, where religion and politics are intimate bedfellows, and where the separation of church and state remain sacrosanct. I studied that, with the emphasis on the then powerful religious right, and i continue to do so as a reporter. Being a religion reporter was just like being a student, learning something new everyday, extending my horizons. Only there were no exams. I got to travel widely, and the pay was better. As one of two people in my leftleaning Kings College leading the unfashionable religious studies, i was often asked at parties by many british students, why i would choose such a subject. Was it because i wanted to become a nun . Being a priest was not an option, though it was about to become one. A few years later at a christmas party, only weeks after i begin this new trial beat of religious reporter, i was asked by a slightly drunk colleague, why are you interested in is it because you are religious yourself . I would get that many times over the years. Incidentally, a political corresponded did not get asked how he voted, as it was not deemed to affect the reporting. The reporter never inserted him or herself into a news story, except under extraordinary circumstances. I mentioned these encounters because it gives you a flavor of the suspicion in a secular 1990s britain as to why anyone would be interested in religion, if it was not for vocational reasons, if they did not have an agenda. I would embark on a passionate explanation as to why religion mattered in the world, in a real and vital way, and how we could not understand culture, society, and much of global politics, without first starting with what motivated most of the people on the planet, which was their search for meaning, deeply held beliefs, and practices. I assert that, while i did not become a nun or priest, this was my secular church. And they were my congregation. They were easy converts. In 1997, i returned to london from studying in the United States, and i was working freelance for the bbc as a general reporter. I spoke with editors, i think farsighted editors, who asked me to try a new role as religion reporter. They had little backing, knew it was a risky proposition, and there were few resources thrown my way. I was given a desk, a quick tour of the studio, and four weeks to see if i could find some interesting news to justify the post. To put it in context, or was a Religion Department at the bbc, which produced wellregarded tv and radio programs on religion and ethics for the domestic audience. There was a department at the Bbc World Service, which was well staffed with reporters and had several programs a week. Some of you might remember focus on faith reporting religion, heart and soul. In other words, it was a subject that was fenced off and clearly marked, religion. Many thought it should remain so. It was something that they had to wear to fulfill requirements, but should not invade the superior news space. At that point, they considered it something close to the parish news, churchy, and not to be taken too seriously, or in some cases, not at all. There were some producers who were so antigod, as they sought, that i knew it would be virtually pointless trying to get a piece on the program, at least, short of, the pope is dead. That was the one religion story that the bbc dedicated vast resources to for many years before they provided us with the news. By which time, the powers that be could not afford it, and cnn got the best spot. I spent several weeks up the ladder. As a further aside, i am never given the luxury of that in broadcasting, so im relishing footnote potentials here. It was similar to the recent death and funeral of nelson mandela. Both he and john paul were towering figures whose passing sparked much reverential reflection on their lives. In these cases, as well as world deaths, births, and weddings, the bbc relishes their role as the nations, and to some extent, the globes, world broadcaster. The purveyor of meaning to the masses. Anyway, back to my earlier point about the facility toward religion in the news environment. Religion was held to a different standard. I had to prove i did not have an agenda. I had to work extra hard at the morning meeting to show why a story was relevant. Another editor would reveal personal bias against a new story, in ways that probably would not have happened with an art piece, and certainly would not have done so with one on politics. I do not mean to make my colleagues sound stupid. They were not. Just were older, schooled in 1960s britain, and had embraced the secularization hypothesis. Religion was antiprogress, and society as a developing got more educated, would relegate believes to the midsection at the back of the bookstore, or in our case, to the bottom of the news roundup. In those weeks, i was often stopped in the quarter by one cardigan wearing hack with the same joke, how is god today . [laughter] the joke soon wore thin. At the other end of the spectrum, there were one or two in the morning news meetings who took my subject seriously, indeed, i was seen as a theologian. Ill never forget 19 00 a. M. Meeting, packed with those who ran the language services, mostly middleage men, and they were exchanging views on how to cover the death, just an, of the cambodian dictator, and one man, a decent local journalists, turned to me and suggested that i write a one minute news piece on the problems of evil. [clears throat] [laughter] i took a deep breath, and said that i thought we might need a fourpart documentary plot for that. It was a milestone of sorts. Many in the room saw the mans suggestion as mildly absurd, and as a test of my news judgment, which i guess i passed. And then on, things got a little easier, though not less hectic because i was on a mission to prove that religion was as interesting and relevant as politics, that, in fact, it overlapped with an undergirded political events, and i had for weeks to prove it. Id no idea what was expected of me so i would come in at 5 00 a. M. To record features and turnout news dispatch on multiple subjects. It was everything from Buddhist Monks writing in thailand, to sectarian tensions ring in cozumel, to jesuit astronomers gazing at the stars near rome, to a Mormon Temple going up in northern england, which i traveled to, and where i sought the views of the locals. I spoke with an old man, wearing a cloth cap, who looks up at the structure and proclaimed, it is a bloody eyesore. [laughter] eventually, as the last day don, the same cardigan hack came up to me and i based my cell for the anticipated, how is god today . Instead he said, it is quite interesting, religion, isnt it . He said, i thought you would just be reporting on the archbishop. My first convert. It was quite a victory to savor. It gave pause for thought about this as religious news. I would cover many topics as editor and presenter, and they would break down into two basic categories. The obvious religion story. The pope is dead. The gay bishop is elected. And a category twostory. How and why religion might fit into events unfolding in parts of the world . There were overlaps, not least in the election of the first openly gay bishop in the world. That was an event that would mark a key moment in the culture wars, which sent shockwaves around the community. The new Digital Media was speeding up the news and amplifying the reaction. The aftereffects are still being felt, not least, and other denominations where the gay issue had been fought over internally, metering what is happening in wider society. Just this week, we saw the u. S. Supreme court plays a hold on gay marriages in utah. Let me say that again, gay marriages in utah. If you had told me, as i watched this, that 10 years later a conservative mormon utah would become the 17th to allow gay marriage, i would be rendered speechless, so dramatic was the cultural shift here, and elsewhere in the last decade. More than a dozen countries have gay marriage, and is about to become the law in england and wales. Journalists are scrambling to keep up with the rapid flow of events. There is no line between the two types of stories, religion, and yes religion plays a part, but as a general, i found a category twostory to be the more interesting, one where i can add value. That was where the Bbc World Service came into it. It takes those longer formats with more air time to allow the sort of space required to explain issues of by a density, sectarianism, where religion or theology might or might not play a part in stories of the day. I got to make many documentaries on antisemitism in europe, on the dalai lama, on revolution and reform in islam in turkey, and elsewhere. That was in the year 2000. He gave me room to explore, ask the questions, and suggest tentative answers. My thesis was that reformists were on the top in iran. That was undermined, when many were jailed. Even with the news bulletins, i would get the second slot on the story, the one they give some context to the news piece above it. The domestic news bulletins at the bbc did not have that sort of luxury, neither do they overhear. The World Service i jointed. It was a deeply rewarding, enriching, and challenging a few years. I should mention that the newsroom manager did call me in and tell me to come back again after those first four weeks, and another, and another, so i remained on shortterm contract, now practically the only contract found there, sprinting constantly from one story to the next, in my bid to prove mind, and the beats work. I would made staff, eventually. I collapsed with an exhaustion related illness. That september i would be lying on my sofa at home, watching the news event that would work for all others, and statically underlying the value of having a religious specialist on staff. The Associated Press all ready had one. May other soon added them. It certainly thrust itself into the news agenda. The tragic events of september 11, had the unintended consequence of creating more religion related jobs, at least, for a while. Those were the halcyon days for religious correspondence herein there was a widespread attempt to understand islam, as a Security Threat and a religion, one which turned out to be far more complicated. That was given much air and print time. A lot of the coverage was very negative of islam, particularly in the press, and by politicians who painted them as the bogeyman. They were grappling with a phenomenon that the western media had not spent much time on. That was swiftly joined by the scandal of the sexual abuse of children by Roman Catholic clergy, one that was broken in the United States by a team of reporters at the boston globe, with the expertise and resources to expose the abuse and coverup. There were the criminal prosecutions of priests that prompted other victims to become forward. A wider pattern became clear. The scandal rapidly spread to other nations, notably to catholic europe, where the governments of countries such as ireland, produced damming report into systematic coverups within the church hierarchy. That story, more than any other i can think of, show the power of an informed and well resourced media. A challenge to religious authority in a profound way. It changed reverential attitudes toward priest. It forced changes in the way that the church did business. Many catholics voted with their feet and left the pews. I should say this grace and a secular sphere, because far from being quietly demoted, he was given an up appointment in rome. The Media Coverage was so critical of the Roman Catholic leadership, which continue to obfuscate, to a lesser or greater degree, that few could ever imagine a reversal of its fortunes. More on that later. In the meantime, pulled an addict was, as the cardinal had been the watchdog for a quarter of a century. He was not the man to open doors and reveal a church ready to embrace transparency or accommodate modernity. Instead, his controversial moves, such as his speech that upsets him and he muslims, and his reinstatement of a holocaust denying bishop, which upset jews, we enforce the mainstream medias view of religion as out of touch. By the time of benedict, who assumed the throne in 2005, editors in newsrooms were starting to lose interest in the religion beat. One american reporter, who covered religion for many years, reflected that the secular media was largely focused on the public sphere, looked on religion as religion. They were more focused on the type twostory. The problem with that approach, he mused, was at the fortunes of the god beat, depends on the ups and downs of the relationship between religion and politics. Like me, he was consumed for a while with explaining islam, reporting on gay bishops, evangelicals in politics, the child abuse crisis. At some point, editors interest waned. He believes that it was because another dreaded 9 11 type event did not happen. It was also because islam turned out to be complicated. Editors went off of it because the categories of western discourse did not fit neatly, and because the resources needed to try to understand them, were not there. He and i both had editors request more coverage on islam, surely a subject of greater importance now, given the rapid and confusing developments in islam in the middle east. In his case, budgets are no longer there. In my case, i was no longer there. I let the religion beat in 2006 to work as a washington correspondent. I left it in safe hands. Christopher was a very good reporter, who was a theology graduate. He had the expertise and did great reporting, not least on the former archbishop who said that islam should have a place in britain. He decided to leave and pursue a vocation as a priest. It was a loss to journalism, but should be again to the church, which needs more priests who understand how the news media works. The bbc faced with another round of budget cuts used his exit as a chance to quietly close the post. There is no religion reporter at the Bbc World Service, where the largest audiences are still in africa, a continent were audiences do care deeply about religion, where it has an obvious role in shaping identity. There is no Religion Department at all. That takes repeating. No Religion Department at all. Even in a hostile climate that i joined, it seemed to be subject worth covering, even if some thought it believed in its own section. I think for a publicly funded body, it is a sorry state of affairs. There is one remaining program, and that his heart and soul. It is out of the World Service. The producer who makes it is out of manchester and does a great job on a tiny budget. Heres my opportunity for shameless plug. You can hear my interview with president obamas spiritual advisor. He has written a Daily Devotion for the president every day. He tells me about the seemingly most secular president and his deep personal faith. Elsewhere, a professional religion beat has struck. One news team who had a complete religion section, no longer does. To a large extent, the fortunes of reporters have risen and fallen in ways that mirror those of the news outlets that they work for, as advertising revenues have shrunk. The religion beat is almost always one of the first to go. Clearly, i dont believe that religious speech should be the clearly, i dont believe that religious speech should be the first to go. Such is the hard reality. Theyre still reporters at the new york times, times of london, and they do a great job on a smaller budget. The bbc does a good job for domestic tv and radio audiences. Meanwhile, while there is no eligion reporter in raleigh, north carolina, there are still parttime religion reporters elsewhere who split labors between beats. He is now the managing editor of religious news service, which without interesting religious stories each day, funded by donations and grants from institutions that care about religion coverage. I foundation gave a generous grants to the Public Radio Program of the world, which allowed me to set up a religion editor position that oversaw the creation of more adept overage. They follow islam in a changing middle east. Recently they reflected on how the obituaries for al qaeda in the wake of the arab spring were premature, to say the least. The sobering last line was, the last year was a good one for al qaeda. The landscape has changed beyond recognition since i started at the bbc. There are few religion specialists left. They include accomplished once such as bruce clark, a reporter at reuters. Theres a great need for information on religion. I lament the passing of so many olleagues. I see pockets of resurrection, not least at the battered and bruised boston globe, which announced that it hired a vatican watcher. The media is reflecting a major shift in the west from religious affiliation to a more individual quest for meaning and direct experience. It is clearly shaping and informing that shift. There are many here in the audience more qualified than i am to talk about how that is redefining meaning and practice. What i would say is that the democratization of media, as eflected in the world of tweeting and blogging coming is having a positive impact on the ways in which spiritual expenses are being covered. I say spiritual experience because there is a more immediate engagement in the fluid form of spiritual expression that to the traditional media has had trouble keeping up with. Im talking about the religious outside the box of. If the traditional media was slow to see the importance of religion in the public political sphere. Religion as part of a socalled hard news story, then it is slower to grasp subtle resolution in the secular west, where many dropped the religion of their childhood, but not the believing in something other. I will give you one snapshot of a changing britain, as captured in a new podcast series. I was asked to present a program in october of things unseen. It is produced by an x bbc staffer for an independent company and funded by a charity. It focused on audience interested in faith, spirituality, the idea that there may be more to life than meets the eye. The program recorded on Londons Southbank was a Panel Discussion about spiritual believes of modern britain. The survey found that while britain may be opposed christian nation, the former archbishops words, not mine, it is far from a nation of atheists. Spiritual believes are found across the board. The report found that more than half of the british leave that spiritual forces can influence human thoughts or actions or the world around them. More than one third of the nonreligious hold this belief. 1 6 said someone they knew had experienced a miracle. Many believe in angels. And younger people are, if anything, more likely to hold these believes that older ones. Looking at the subject through the lens of established faith, no longer affects what is going on, at least in britain and the u. S. Here in the u. S. , websites such as the Huffington Post are reflected in the development. Theres a blurring of the line between analysis and commentary. There are more personal and howto columns. In the west, people are interested less in dogma handed down, and more an individual practice. Click on one link on the power of intention or mindful living, and you find your inbox daily used to with daily snippets of spiritual wisdom from online gurus. There is in the new media age, the Perfect Union of consumerism and spirituality. Presiding over it all is the high priestess, someone i have great admiration for, Oprah Winfrey. For those who have not read it, i recommend, oprah the gospel of an icon. This is often criticized for coming out of a me, me, me culture. What other may be justification some areas, i think the criticism tends to come from those whose traditions are threatened by the new religious marketplace. They tend to overlook the fact that new communities are emerging. It is often virtual communities, in for instance, operas bookclub. Atheism is getting a good iring. Richard dawkins theyre becoming leaders of the movement defining itself against dominant religious culture. The editor of bbc editors sunday program for british audiences, which presents good coverage of global religion, suggests that atheism gets disproportionate coverage, the reflection, she wondered, of the secular newsroom. I suspect the leader of the alabama at atheists would strongly disagree with that. On my way to meet him, i drove the alabama where roadside sides urgently devote for jesus. And he told me of the classes that had been planted on his manicured lawn and the abuses children based at school because his dad was an atheist. I guess he is not alone. And talk about the positive influence of the Digital Media, the democratization of the media, and that is a good thing. And the flip side, one i believe ran forces my argument that we need more him partial reporting on religion. Former people are writing. Everyone feels they can weigh in. It means more illinformed opinions, especially in an age where there is disappearing religious literacy in the west, a byproduct of the move away from established religion. Social media has been in louisiana strictly embraced by slamic extremists. Jihadists are tweeting their victory poses from the battlefields. Authority figures in islam and other mainstream religions have been less quick to realize the potential of the digital age, potentially seeing it as a threat. The vatican did catch up. The new pope has an active twitter account. He is the most talked about person on the internet and the world. Just yesterday i got a tweet with a link to him pick up a hitchhiker in saint peters square. It turned out to be a fellow argentinian priest he recognize in a crowd. It went around the world in an instant. This brings me to the story you thought i forgot about. The one where the roman hierarchy in its deep crisis pulled off the most inspired move. I speak not theologically, but as a journalist. The most inspired move ever by electing a man who got away last ime as the pope. They were written off as riddled by corruption and sexual abuse scandals, and cable of putting the own house together, managed to up in the narrative instantly with the election of pope francis. The choice of name, the gestures, the humble living and identification with the poor, dmined the political battlefield. And then in his response about gay priest he said, who am i to judge . That won him many converts in unlikely places. And the feet of him washing feet, hugging a disfigured man, giving up the roads of a priest, had made it something of a saint in a secular world, perhaps in search of one. Time magazine embraced him. So did the advocate. Can the oneymoon last . Traditionalists who have been quiet, are taking comfort in the fact the pups can change the doctrine here goes in the other side say the opposite. They pointed out that church octrine has and does change on such as the church killed jesus. Style is not just the cover of the book. It is the book itself. I suggest that that view might sound sympathies among scholars f media religion and culture. A few predictions of the stores i think we might see more of. The arab spring remains uge. What happens in the middle east will have an enormous Ripple Effect be on the borders. Pope mania will continue for a while. We will get a clearer indication of where the pope is taking his church, not least from the bishops in 2014, this year. And the interesting survey. He wants the views of catholics on marriage, divorce, and contraception. A hope seeking the views of his flock . Much heated debate about that. The culture wars continue to involve, as a once cohesive religious right has been replaced by alliances across denominations, as believers fight for their right and space n the public sphere. We see battles against religious persecution and for religious freedom at one end of the spectrum. It on the other, we seek individual fights for the right to wear religious symbols. We see conscience pitted against the civil rights in society. This is partly about discrimination against gays, or employees who want contraception coverage. These arguments are being played out in the courts. The u. S. Supreme court, the European Court of human rights, and they will continue to do so, reflecting a broader dilemma. Can a broadly Secular Society tolerate the existence of religious subculture, which lives by selfimposed rules . Much to reflect on. A greater need than ever, i believe, for the experts to play the role. As any religion reporter and keen reader of oscar wilde knows, the truth is really pure, nd never simple. But it is worth giving and airing. Thank you. Thank you very much. That was very interesting, as we got it would be. We have time for questions and answers. With the recording, we would like to have microphones. Perhaps we can have a volunteer to handle the other. The floor is open for questions. Hi. Thank you for your fascinating lecture. How do you see the role of the edia today when there is a gap that is really hard to bridge between religion in europe. You see it on one side, and you mentioned it at the end of the lecture, but i would like you to, if you can, elaborate about it. How do you see the role of the media . Does it bridge the gap or make it worse between islam and europe . An interesting and tough question. Lots to unpack in there. There is one story that leaps out at me, which includes a many angles to the battle between freedom of expression, as some sought in a liberal democratic europe, of course the media itself are beneficiaries of a liberal western culture, which strongly supports and defends freedom of expression. Versus freedom of religion and people defending their religious ights, their religious worldviews. The most striking example for me, and it is a few years ago was the mohammed cartoons in denmark. There were so many different angles to that. Clearly, it infuriated and inflamed so much opinion in the islamic world. The modern media soon sent images around the world. We had danish imams traveled to the middle east to share that story of how these 12 cartoons were blasphemous, offended islam and the prophet mohammed. The fact that you cannot even depict images of a proper mohammed was bad enough, but images of the bomb was very inflammatory, basically. That started this huge firestorm around the world, as you ecall. We had killings of people. It set off a tragic series of events. It also set off heated debates about the role of the media. About freedom of expression. It about religious minorities in europe, about what accommodations can be made. It was interesting to see people in the western media who did not necessarily think it was a great idea to publish the cartoons come to the defense of the Danish Organization that ublished them because it was about freedom of expression. It seemed to be a line being drawn in the sand about where the limits of tolerance work of the views of religious minorities. At the time, there were many muslims who said, hang on, there are some interesting contradictions here. In a europe talking about freedom of expression, it also has several countries which outlaw denial of the holocaust. There is a limit to free speech. There were all sorts of interesting debates going on and much bigger snapshots of what was going on with religious communities in europe, and how far europe was prepared to go to accommodate it. That was one example. In terms of what the medias role is, the media was clearly involved in that to some extent. If they were a proponent and defender of free speech. There were also pockets of the media where there were interesting discussions going on with dialogue and interfaith. People were getting together rying to talk things down. That is not as broadly covered in a media that focuses on friction, differences of opinion, big news events, and it is hard to sell and interfaith conference to news editors in a newsroom, though i do think one hould try. In the back. Is this working . Ok. Just to stick to that point, you covered religion in the states and europe. There was a time when people were enthralled with the notion of american exceptionalism. But recently they been talking about european exceptionalism, when it comes to religion. That is to say, youre busy only place where religion is bewildering. The rest of the world is like, yes, that is something people are into. Europe is the only place where people are like, what is this . You are in a unique position to speak about that. Could you speak about that and elaborate on the tension between how you treat religion in the public space and in the states, s opposed to europe . I think you are right. It is the odd consonant out in many regards. I mention the secularization hypothesis. Religion in europe was about to die out. It was postindustrial, and then, all of a sudden, religion turned around and caught europe off guard. If you look at rates of religious attendance in churches, then your rates are ery low. In the Czech Republic and prague, which is by some accounts, the most atheistic countries in the world, only two percent of people profess a religious belief. It is the odd man out. It is fascinating to me. On the flipside, we are getting data that suggest that religious affiliation, churchgoing is going down quite a lot in america. We are now getting figures of atheists in the teens or 12 . That is quite a large category. When you start looking at data it is quite difficult. Some of the surveys pose questions such as, do you regard yourself as atheist, agnostic, or something else, nonreligious. It is in the nonreligious area that i find that there is a lot of interesting things to be done because a lot of people would say that that is spiritual but not religious. A lot of people are interested in the wisdom 2. 0 conference. They are advertising online and talking about the intersection of wisdom in the digital age. They are talking about wisdom leaders that you can go see. You can go to yoga rooms, meditation, go to inspiration village. Eckhart tolle is there. They are being touted as wisdom leaders. People are in search of an immediate lift experience. Join us to understand how to live with more presence in the digital age. Some interesting things are happening. Europe is very much the odd continent out, in some ways. Because of your professional background, you concentrated on the news. Can you talk about entertainment . Will we be watching in the future . Do you think there is an ntertainment part of it . I was invited to highlevel gathering at the bbc. It was all departments, news, entertainment, everyone was invited to think about religion in a different way, and reflecting the audience is more. Their dissents that religion had come back. He came back on the scene explosively, especially with 11 and all the fallout from that. The news editors and editors of all the departments, arts, entertainment, science, drama, got together and try to discuss ow to better reflect the views of the audiences to try to give a fuller picture of what was going on, and come it religion from different angles. I was a topdown approach. I think it had mixed success. For well, you started to see ramas and soap operas like east enders start to tackle some of these. There might be a muslim character. There were various ethical issues worked out. They did try. I am not sure i agree with a topdown approach. Nterest waned. It moved on. I was a fan of farmer ted, the satirical comedy. Hat was great. I will take the privilege of the chair and try question of my own. Ive always been interested in the discourse within religion journalism, and the problem of evaluating journalism. One of the reasons why journalists are reluctant to cover religion, is because there are so many of them. And you have to choose between hem. Do you think that situation will change in the new era youre talking about, where more and more religious expression can well up through the Digital Media, and whether because it is no longer framed authoritatively by media voices, or editorial decisionmaking, whether there will be more discourse comparing hem . Interesting. I think, yes. Yes. In this new digital age we will see more of that, more the religion outside the box. I think traditional media continues to struggle, certainly, in terms of, the news culture that i have come out of. When you have a story that breaks, a news story, and it is evaluated for the value as a news event, there is a reflexive approach that looks for the leaders to speak to, the Authority Figures. Well, that is breaking down in these wisdom conferences, and elsewhere in the more democratized space. The Digital Media is more receptive to other voices who are not the archbishop, are not the imams, are not the abbis. I have faith that, if i am covering a hard news story, when i was a religion or, there would be receptive it he to me covering the suicide bombings. I would be asked again, to the point got sick of it, having to explain that the elegy of suicide bombing, and go to the people who could speak authoritatively about how it doesnt fit with mainstream islam. There was less receptivity to the touchyfeely stuff. Nd the spirituality. Audience interest was huge. We did not have those ways of gauging it. But there was a great deal of audience interest in a series that dealt with demographics and the way that religion had evolved. There was a lot of interest in that sort of thing. I think there is still, in a ery structured media environment, and traditional media, there is this natural urge to go and seek out the uthority structure, when the authority, the leaders, when they are not there, they butting heads a little bit. This is an ingrained bias against the feeling that Oprah Winfrey and everything going on in the internet, and the new spirituality out there, that it is in sight intellectual. And that it doesnt justify much news coverage, there is a bit of that going on. I would be trusted to be a regular journalist if i was interviewing the archbishop. I would be expecting to pull forth the tough questions and would be trusted to do so. But if it was somebody else there who was more airy fairy, want to talk about spirituality, i was told to go really hard on them because of this sort of suspicion and the fact that it was not really that justified as a religion, if you like. You started to answer some of my question there. You are talking earlier about defending the religious beat with the bbc. I was wondering how journalists were defending their coverage of rising religion practices. Use the term out of the box religion. And i was wondering how they are purging us with authenticity with new religious experiences. What are your thoughts on that . It is quite hard for religion journalists to go into these areas. For instance, when i was a religion correspondent, i was unraveling whether a war was sectarian or religiously rooted. We all know that it bleeds together. Sectarian identity issues, it is hard to unpick them. It had to justify why the religion correspondent was alking about it. Sometimes it was really more about economics or ethnicity. It could just inflame issues if you talked about religion. Religion is what is being poured on the fire, but it did not start the fire. I spent a lot of my beat trying to find in my own head what was a religion story and what was not. And i was looking to find my way out of the box and talk about interesting developments that you are referring to. It is a difficult one to navigate. I think it is happening. But one of the problems with the shrinking of the religion beat and the experts watching what is going on in our world is that there is nobody spotting the trends if you dont have religious correspondent there, reading and writing about them. Nobody is saying what is coming up the road. There is nobody with that sort of expertise to figure out where things are headed. I think it is a real problem there. When it was a religion correspondent on the beat looking at, for instance, the gay bishop story. That almost came out of nowhere, and yet it didnt. Some of us were reading about it know was going to happen and were able to respond in a different way. If you do not have experts out here reading, talking to experts, in my world, i would love to see more bridges built between reporters and the academy, and policy experts. Get everyone talking together. And then reporters naturally reflect more of what is going on in the world. Ed is why you need specialists. I am not saying they are the only voices. I am not suggesting you need an Authority Figure or the archbishop. I think it is great that there are more and more voices out there. But i think you do need some sort of ability to contextualize, give nuance to the story, and that it is one of those areas which is quite hard to accumulate. Not that it is harder to be a religion correspondent than a political correspondent. It is a different job. Youre less reacting and more crafting features and thinking about ways in which religion and pirituality is changing. Thank you for a wonderful, wonderful presentation. There are so much concern about the Business Model of journalism. You talked about the podcast funded in a nontraditional way. Im wondering if there is a future for that, for religious journalism moving forward. Is there enough interest and nontraditional funding that would go into reporting . I am invested in it because it is reduced by friends who are coming out with Great Stories that i have long wanted to report on, and theyre giving me work. I should mention that. In fact, i go to arizona next to talk about spirituality and Health Issues that i am interested in. Im interviewing dr. Andrew about mind, body, spirit medicine, and a cherokee medicine man who became a friend of mine, who is a fascinating man and widely read across different religious and spiritual traditions. We are going to talk about native american spirituality, in particular cherokee. There is a form being provided that was not provided in the old traditional newsroom setting. That is great for people interested in it. I think it should be funded, and it is being funded. It is fabulous that it is being funded. But it is difficult to raise money in this harsh environment. It is wonderful that there are inbound minutes. There is the ford foundation. Theyre all these organizations out there becoming absolutely vital, if we want this kind of coverage to continue. There are smaller funders in britain doing the same thing. Many podcasts are done on a shoestring and are not making you rich, but it is rewarding and enriching in other ways. I will do one more. You dont have to answer his. I am wondering if you thought about the question of whether some religions get more better coverage than others. Are there some do get more and better, and why . I am talking from a western perspective and my experience in the media here. He coverage has changed. It has traditionally been quite reverential toward christianity. N the bbc that i joined, and the religious department there were a lot of christian devotional programs put out. And even the news, it was, and still to a certain extent is largely about christianity. That reflects the audience in the domestic sphere, and it is quite a tourist audience that listens to the program. I would be constantly pushing the boundaries will but, very interested in covering different religions. Islam has got a real beating in the press for a long time. I think and hope that has changed quite a bit, especially in the bbc, and the npr. Islam remains a big challenge for us because it remains, to a certain extent, in much of the media foreign. People do try to fit it into categories, discourse that does not fit it. It was interesting after 9 11 to see western governments, such as he British Government go out looking for the moderate voices of islam. They try to coopt certain groups. That did not go down very well in many muslim communities. And they looked at sufis. They said they are great. And then they thought, they actually have a very traditional view of the koran and womens rites. I would like to see fuller coverage that gives all angles of the story. Certainly, islam became the news because of negative news events. It is much harder to get into initiatives happening within islam and between religions that are positive developments. Of negative news events and it is much harder to get into initiatives that are happening within islam and between religions that are positive developments, such as the Common Word Initiative that is happening. Another is another foundation encouraging engagement as well is to look at the role of religion in foreign policy. When people look at ideologies and different economic circumstances are not looking at religious causes. An outshoot of the tony blair initiative. That was an initiative to bring young people together to talk religion. That is interesting but hard to sell as a new story. 9 11 was the thing which has really given a boost to islam, but the truth of the matter is that in a book, which is a bbc domestic religion covers shows in the early 1990s which question different groups among hristians, including islamic listeners and viewers, ask questions like, if you want more, what happens when it turns over . It was oh its islam. It was always, we want more. There were some of those reporting on islam before 9 11. I mentioned the resolution and reform series on islam that i was doing. It was like it suddenly, the news editors at the top unawares. They were playing catchup and unfortunately happens quite a lot, a reactive environment. I think that is white is good to have specialists. Theyre less reactive and more proactive. We have time for three ore. We will start over here to my left. I did research in the context of korea. I found that most of the time, sometimes they do cover religion in a positive manner. I found that they have kind of expectations of religion, what religion can do for society. Can you tell me one or more experiences when you cover religion and a policy matter and why did you decide to do that . I didnt set out with an agenda, but there have been tragic stories out of which some very positive messages have come from communities. Christian communities. In a couple of instances i can think of, we had the july 7 bombings in london. Tragic events. A young man was killed in the ondon bus bombing. I approached his mother and as a human being, i felt a little bit reluctant. Here is a woman in full grief for her only son. I heard that she had a deep christian faith. The catholic cathedral that she attended gave me her number. I asked permission from her to get the number. She gave me the most moving interview that i have ever done in my life. This was in. 4 hours with him losing her son. He interview went out on the Morning News Program on bbc radio called today. It is usually a very gladiatorial, presenter versus politician, three minutes apart fighting over political issues of the day. This one was about eight minutes and really stunned mainstream audience and a lot of editors as she talked in great depth and huge heart about her son and about the impact of the bombings on her family but about her deep christian faith, how she for gave the bombers, and this was 4 hours later. How she prayed for the bombers families and it was a really, really moving event that came out of something that was a real tragic case. You could have focused on here we go again and looking at the negative of religion. This is something that was very positive and very moving came out of it. There was another one, the tragic shooting in Amish Country in pennsylvania in lancaster county. That was a fascinating example of the media rushing their, all of the hosts of the evening news channels were there, all the satellite trucks, cars it was two worlds colliding. You had all of the satellite trucks and journalists standing there reporting as a horsedrawn cart went past. As a physical illustration of the two worlds colliding. We knew interviewed some of these families who had lost their children in a tragic shooting and they talked about forgiveness and the bible told them to believe in a certain approach that was forgiving. They gave the families that forgave the families. It was very moving. Things stood still for the secular media and this is religion in a different light. I didnt set out to do a positive religion story, but some events allowed those moments to unfold. They were very moving, i think. I would like to give you an opportunity to return to the question about whether some religions are treated fairly in the media or more difficult to cover. That may explain i teach in the Anthropology Department here and i do research in sri lanka. I have been aware that from a media point of view, it is often very ironic and difficult for reporters to report from a place like sri lanka which has produced violence that has religious overtones to it that does not let it conform to our stereotypes of the religions that we have ahead of time. Two examples and i would like to offer some comments if you can think of any buried up the reasons we concluded the civil war entry locker, which concluded in 2009, it was conducted by a rebel group and it was very often the case in the press that it was assumed that they were a religious group. That there cause was some kind of religious protest. It was assumed because they speak the language, they must all be induced. Some of the most powerful members of the groups and suicide bombers were christian. More recently, and since we are in boulder i think we have to bring this up, i think that buddhism always gets a favorable treatment in the press and it is the favor religion here in boulder, for sure