Transcripts For CSPAN January 6 Hearings Eighth Hearing On Capitol Attack - Part 2 20220724

The committee will be in order, i now recognize the gemma from illinois the gentleman from illinois. We left at the recess just after 2 24 attacking the Vice President. The president had been in his room his dining room for over an hour. If you have the power to end the violence, you would have immediately and forcefully have told the rioters to stop and leave. And you heard, that is exactly what his senior staff had been urging him to do. But he resisted. And he kept resisting for almost another two hours. In the meantime, all the president did was supposed to tweets. One at 2 38 and one at 3 13. One said, stay peaceful. One said, remain peaceful. But the president already knew that the mob was attacking the police. Ed had dated the pat and had invaded the capitol. He told them how obvious it was a President Trump was not meeting this moment. It is helpful to look at the realtime reactions of his own son, don jr. , captured in a series of Text Messages with mark meadows. I want to warn that these messages include strong leg wedge. He first texted mr. Meadows at he needs to come condemn this shit. I am pushing it hard, i agree. They will try to fuck his entire legacy on this. Here is what don jr. Meant by going to the mattresses. When you say that mr. Meadows needs to go to the mattresses on this issue, what is that mean . Its a reference to going all in, a godfather reference. Sean hannity agreed and turned to the president for help hannity texted at 331 pending 3 31. Mr. Meadows responded that he was, quote on it. Sean hannity was not the only to tell them up to leave to go home. Throughout this attack mr. Meadows received texts from republican members of congress, current and former Trump Administration officials, from media personalities and friends. Like President Trumps staff, they knew President Trump had to speak publicly in order to get them out to get the mob to start. To stop. Fox news personality Laura Ingraham said, the president needs to tell the people in the capital to go home. Mick mulvaney urged, mark, he needs to stop this now. Fox news personality brian kyl mead said, please get him on tv, destroying everything that you guys have accomplished. Wembley when we interviewed Pat Cipollone he, he said he knew that the president s to tweets were not enough. Lets listen to what he said. What did you think about not using your advice to the president. I believed more needed to be done. I believed it i believed a Public Statement needed to be made. When you talk about others on the staff again more should be done or telling people that they need to go home, who would you put in that category . Well, i would put eric hirschman, overall, mark meadows, ivanka, once jared got there, jared, general kellogg, im probably missing some. Dansk aveeno. And who on the staff did not want people to leave capital capitol . On the staff . In the white house, how about. I cant think of anybody, who didnt want to get out of the capital once the violence started. I mean what about the president . She said the staff, so i answered. She said the staff i said the president i said the white house. I thought you said who on staff. I cant reveal communications. Obviously, i think yeah. Lets pause on that last statement. Although Pat Cipollone he is be careful about executive privilege, there is no ambiguity about what he said. Almost everyone in almost everyone wanted President Trump to instruct the mob to disperse, President Trump refused. Lets examine his 2 38 tweet and more detail. For context, here is what was happening at the time. [shouting] they broke the glass . Stay down. There are people flooding the hallways outside, we have no way out. We were just told that there is teargas in the rotunda, each of us needs a gas mask. We went from a peaceful protest and this is a dangerous situation right now. There are, i am being told, protesters on the inside are around both chambers and there is new now teargas inside the Capitol Rotunda members inside the house are being instructed to put on masks. After President Trumps tweet about Vice President trent Vice President pence, you spoke to kayleigh mcenany, what did you tell her and where did she go afterwards . After the tweet about the Vice President , i found kaylee and said that the president needed to immediately condemn what we were seeing. She aggrieved he agreed and walked to the oval dining room to see the president. Others were urging to put out a statement. What did she tell you about what happened in that dining room. When she got back, she told me that a tweet had been sent out, and i told her that i did not think the tweet went far enough. We were in a room full of people. But people werent paying attention. She looked directly at me, in a hushed tone, she shared that the president did not want to any mention of peace and that tweet. There was a back and forth, she said. Going over different phrases, to find something that he was comfortable with. It wasnt until ivanka trump suggested the phrase, stay peaceful, that he finally agreed to include it. The president resisted writing stay peaceful in a tweet. He told mark meadows that the rioters were doing what they should be doing and that the rioters understood that they were doing what President Trump wanted them to do. President trumps message was heard clearly by stop the steal organizer allie alexander. At 2 38, he told another organizer that potus was not ignorant of what needed to be done. In this video, you will see Surveillance Footage from the rotunda that shows a group of oath keepers, including Jessica Watkins was been charged with seditious conspiracy. You will hear her walkietalkie communications with others as they share intelligence and communicate about President Trumps 2 38 tweet in real time. Again, we warned the audience that this clip also includes strongly wedge. Cnn just said that they evacuated all members of congress to a safety room. There is no safe place in the United States for any of these motherfuckers, ill tell you that. Right now. We are not joking around. Military principal 105, cave means grave. Trump just tweeted, please support the Capitol Police they are on our side. Do not pardon them. What he didnt say, he didnt say not to do anything to the congressman. He did not ask them to stand down, he just asked them to to support the Capitol Police, they are on our side, they are good people. I have it on tv. It is looking pretty friggin radical to me. Cnn says that trump is egging it on and watching the country burn before he leaves office. He is not leaving office, i dont give a shit what they say. We are in here. God bless, godspeed, keep going. This is what we fucking lived up for, this is what we fucking train for. Were in the capital bro. We have now seen President Trumps supporters react to his tweets. You told us that you consider the tweets at this point to be wholly inadequate given the urgency of the crisis. What, in your view, would be needed . It was insufficient. You could count me among those who was hoping to see an unequivocal, strong statement, clearing out the capital, telling people to leave and go home. I think thats what we were hoping for. Something more definitive and not ambiguous. He had that power over his folks. You said, the president should not condemn the violence. Could you tell us about that moment and your reaction . A conversation started in the press office after the president sent out those two tweets that i deemed insufficient. A colleague suggested that the president shouldnt condemned the violence, because they thought it would be, handing a win to the media if you were to condemn his supporters. I disagreed. I believed to be should condemned the violence and condemn it unequivocally. We needed a call to action and to tell these people to go home. A debate ensued over it and i became visibly frustrated. My colleagues were well aware of that. I couldnt believe we were arguing about this in the middle of the west wing, talking about the politics of tweets, when we had just watched all of the violence unfold at the capital. I motioned to the tv, and i said , does it look like we are thing winning that we are effing w inning, the president needed to condemn the violence. It didnt matter if it came from the left or right, you should condemned violence 100 of the time. We heard that dashboards pressing the president to do more, to urge we heard pressing the president to do more. Kevin mccarthy asked leader mccarthy reached out for help to e ivanka trump, who was at the white house and Jared Kushner who had just arrived back from a flight to the middle east. At some point in the afternoon, mr. Mccarthy put a phone call to mr. Sue pinots desk line and it was connected to the president , is that correct . Were you involved in transferring that call . Yes. Where was the president at the time that he took that call . He was in the dining room. Would you personally reach out to the president for more support . I already talked to the president , i called him. I said we i think we need to make a statement, make sure we can calm individuals down. Did mr. Mccarthy indicate that he had been in touch with President Trump . He indicated that he had some conversation i dont recall if it was with the president or someone at the white house. He expressed frustration that they were not taking the circumstance as seriously as they should at that moment. I asked the republican leader, he got through to President Trump and he said, you need to get on tv, you need to get on twitter, and call these people off. The president said to him, these are my people these arent my people, these are antifa. They are your people, my staff are running for cover, the running for their lives. Need to call them off. The president s response, to me, was chilling. He said well kevin, he is more i guess they are more upset about the election then you are. Kevin mccarthy and the president had a swearing conversation. The president was basically saying, i am ok with this. The president has a Briefing Room steps from the oval office. The cameras are hot 24 7, why hasnt he walked down and said that now . I conveyed to the president what i think is best to do. Have you spoken with his chief of staff . Ive spoken with the president , and other people in there, and the white house as well. Who reached out to the white house about the attack on the capitol . I believe at one point, mccarthy did. I heard my phone ringing, it was a leader mccarthy who i had a Good Relationship with. He asked if there was anything i could do to help, i dont recall a specific ask, anything you could do. I got the impression that they were scared. They meaning leader mccarthy and the people on the hill, because they were scared, yes. Whats think of that, leader mccarthy one of the president s biggest supporters was scared and begging for help. President trump turned him down. So he tried to call the president s children. Mike gallagher also implored the president to call of the attack. Mr. President , you have got to stop this. You are the only person who can call this off. Call it off. The election is over. Call it off. President elect joe biden was also live on tv to demand that President Trump tell the mob to leave. I call on President Trump to go on National Television now, to feel his old his oh his oathe, to have filled the converse to the to fulfill the president still did not ask. I yield to my friend from virginia. Thank you mr. Cousins are. Thank you mr. Kessinger. At 4 17, more than three hours after he stopped speaking at the ellipse, that is when he tweeted a video telling rioters to go home. While also telling them that they were special, and that he loved them. By that time, the violence was far from over. Law enforcement had started to turn the tide, reinforcements were on the way, and elected officials were in secure locations. The writing was on the wall. The rioters would not succeed. Here is what was showing on fox news, the channel the president was watching all afternoon. Brent with more information, what do you have. Confirming the Defense Department has now mobilized the entire d. C. National guard, it takes troops a wild to get up and running. A wild to get up and running. You just heard that the fbi is sending troops to the capital to the capitol. Its no coincidence that President Trump gave in and went out to the rose garden at 4 03. His staff gave him a speech to read but he refused to read it. The script said, i am asking you to leave the Capital Region and now and go home in a peaceful way. The president was urged to speak to stick to the script but he spoke off the cough off the cuff. Lets hear what they had to say and hear the never before seen raw footage of the president recording this video message. Ultimately these remarks that you are seeing an exhibit at 25 were not the remarks that the rose garden. Do you know why the president decided not to use these . I dont know sir, i do not know why. Did the president use any written remarks to your knowledge or did he go offthecuff . To my knowledge, it was offthecuff, sir. Tell me when. When you are ready sir. Who is behind me . We are all clear now. I know your pain, i know you are hurt. I know your pain, i know youre hurt. We had an election stolen from us. It was a landslide election, everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you need to go home now, we need to have peace, we need to have law and order. We need to respect people in law order. There has never been a time like this where such a thing has happened that they could take it away from all of us. From me, from you, the entire country. This was a fraudulent election. But we cant play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. Go home, we love you, youre very special. You have seen others and how they are treated who are so bad and so people. So people so evil. Go home in peace. Was there any discussion about the president releasing a second video that day . Not that i recall. When he finished his video, i think everyone was like, days over. People were drained. Were what . Drained. When you say, day over, there were still people in the capital at that point werent there . At this stage, i believe Law Enforcement was either they or moving in. People were emotionally drained by the time that videotape was done. Emotionally drained . At the white house . Here is what was happening at the same time at the capitol. We warned the audience that this clip also includes Strong Language and violence. [shouting] there is another officer unconscious. Everybody, we need to gas masks, weapons. [shouting] while President Trump refused to even lift another finger to help, other leaders honored their oh oathe. Here are never before seen photos and videos of during the attack. Acting secretary of defense, chris miller. We need you to give us the ok so that we can go back inside and finish up the peoples business. This is secretary senator schumer, it could take several days to secured the building, do you agree with that analysis . Im not sure that i agree with that analysis. When is the earliest that we could safely resume our meeting in the Senate House Chamber . My assessment, we are looking at four or five hours. The Vice President also worked the phones from his own secure evacuation location, including conversations with acting as secretary of defense miller and other leaders. Lets look at some never before seen photographs of the Vice President during this critical time and here the Vice President s conversation with military leaders to secure the capital and ensure everyone is safe. Vice president pence was very candid, he issued explicit, direct, under big u. S. Orders. There is no question about that. I can get you quotes from some of our records somewhere. He was very animated. Direct. Firm. Get the military down here, get the guard down here, etc. As you heard early in the hearings, the president did not call the Vice President , anyone in the military, not a single person. The contrast between that call and the call with Vice President pence tell you everything you need to know about President Trumps dereliction of duty. Lets listen. This is from memory, he said, we have two kill the narrative that the Vice President is making all of the decisions. We need to establish the narrative that the president is still in charge, and things are steady or stable. I interpret that as politics, red flags for me personally, no action. I dont do political narratives. While President Trump and his advisors were drained, other leaders upheld their 02 do the right thing upheld their oathe to do the right thing. Think of the Law Enforcement officers that were attacked by the mob that day. President trump himself summoned them to washington. What about President Trump, he watched, tweeted, called rudy, and argued with his staff who were insisting that he should call off the attack. I was struck by the fact that he chose to begin the video by pushing the lie that there was a stolen election. As the video went on, i felt a small sense of relief because he finally pulled these people to go home. That was immediately followed by him saying, we love you, you are very special. That was disturbing to me. He couldnt distinguish between those who attended his speech earlier that day and those that we watch because balance because violence at the cap cause violence at the capital. Violently attacked Police Officers and chanted heinous things like hang mike pence, we love you and you are very special . As a spokesperson for him, i would be asked to defend that. His refusal to act and call off the mob that day, his refusal to call off the violence was indefensible. I knew i would be resigning that evening. I finished up the workday, called my loved ones and let them know my decision and resigned that evening. Thank you. Indefensible. Lets hear what your colleagues had to say about their reaction to the 4 17 message. I felt it was the absolute bare minimum of what could be said about point, especially on camera. A more forceful, dismissal of the violence a more forceful command to go home, a more forceful respect for Law Enforcement. Even a comparison to the respect that we had given to Law Enforcement as it relates to what was done to them in the prior summer. I thought it was important that a acknowledgment be given to the u. S. Capitol building itself, what is a symbol of what it is a symbol of, what it means, not only for the people who work there but for the American People, generally. And the work by congress, by law, that needed to be conducted that day. Do you wish that the president had asked the protesters to leave earlier then he ended up doing that . Of course i wish that message had happened earlier in the day. The president s words matter, we know that many of the writers were listening to President Trump. Lets listen to what he had to say about the 4 17 message from the president and hear how writers reacted to the president s message in real time. When we were there, as soon as that came out, everyone started talking about it. It started to do sports to disperse some of the crowd. He said go home. He said to go home. Just as mr. Eric said, police were still removing the last i yield to the gentleman from illinois. What does President Trump to . After the citywide curfew went into effect, he posted his last tweet of the day. With over 100 Police Officers sustaining injuries after handtohand combat, President Trump justified the violence as a natural response to the election. He said, these are the things and events that happen when asap grade when a sacred landslide victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots who have he called the mob great patriots. He told people to remember the day forever. He showed absolutely no remorse. A few minutes later and 6 27, the president left the dining room and went up to the white house residence for the night raid on for the night. On the screen is the last photograph of the president of the night. As he was in the dining room getting ready to leave, President Trump reflected on the events of the day with a white house employee, the same employee who met President Trump at the oval office after he returned from the ellipse. President trump said nothing to the employee about the attack. He said, mike pence let me down. Miss matthews, what was your reaction to President Trumps 6 01 tweet . Ms. Matthews at that point, i had already decided to resign. This tweet this this tweet cemented my decision. I thought january 6 was one of the darkest day in our countrys history and President Trump sent that tweet, it just cemented my decision to resign. Who asked you about this tweet before it was sent . The president. Tells everything you said and he said to the best of your recollection. He said, what do you think of this . I believe i saw the text message on his phone. And i remember saying to him, the wording on the first sentence would lead some to believe that potentially, he had something to do with the events that happened at the capitol. What did he say . I dont recall him saying anything in response. I believe that was the end of the conversation. Did you change anything in light of your comment . No, sir. What made you think someone might perceive the president having a role in events at the capitol . At was my interpretation of the words. I dont write speeches or anything, but the phrase, these are the things that happen sounded to me as if culpability was associated with it to make. I dont think it is a patriotic act to attack the capitol, but i have no idea how to characterize the people other than that they trespassed, destroyed property and assaulted the u. S. Capitol. Calling them patriots is a stretch, to say the least. Is that all, i stretch, or is it flatly wrong . I dont think it is a patriotic act to attack the u. S. Capitol . The u. S. Capitol. Would you call it unpatriotic, or a criminal act . Unpatriotic, sure. It was a terrible day. It was a terrible day for this country. I thought it was inappropriate. In my mind, it was a day that should be remembered in infamy. That wasnt the intent of his tweet. Rep. Kinzinger despite the violence of the day, the effort to continue certification continue. Continued the effort to continue certification continued. President trump called Rudy Giuliani and a gathering included Rudy Giuliani, marsha blackburn, senator Tommy Tuberville and ted cruz. Lets listen to the start of this. Senator tuberville, coach, this is Rudy Giuliani, the president s lawyer. I am calling because i want to discuss how they are trying to rush this hearing and how we need you, our republican friends, to try to just slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information to you. Rep. Kinzinger mr. Giuliani did not even mention the attack on the capitol. Instead, he was pushing on behalf of President Trump to get members of congress to further delay the certification. Even though some members did proceed with objections, Vice President pence and congress stood firm to successfully conclude the joint session in the Early Morning hours of january 7. Here is what some members of the president s party said in the days and weeks after the attack. There is no question none that President Trump is practical and morally responsible practically and morally responsible profile morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. There is no question about it. The people who stormed this building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their president , and having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories and recklessness, which the defeated president cap shouting into the largest megaphone on planet earth. Violence, destruction and chaos we saw earlier was unacceptable, undemocratic, and unamerican. It was the saddest day i have ever had serving as a member of this institution. Madame speaker, today the peoples house was attacked, which is an attack on the republic itself. There is no excuse for it. A woman died and people need to go to jail. And the president should never have spun up certain americans to believe something that simply could not be. Rep. Kinzinger congress certified the 2020 Election Results. Soon after, this statement by President Trump was posted on dans caminos twitter account because by now, President Trumps twitter account had been suspended. As you see, President Trump stuck with his big lie that the election was stolen, but he did say there would be an orderly transition. But we learned the statement was not necessarily his idea. Jason miller, a campaign advisor, told us that after the joint session started, eager nothing from President Trump or the white house about assuring the nation that the transfer of power would take place, so mr. Miller took it upon himself to draft a statement and called the president at 9 23 that night, to convince him to put it out. Lets listen. Did he say there was a particular word or phrase he did not want included . He wanted to say peaceful transition and i said, that ship has already failed, so we are going to say orderly transition. That was about the extent of disagreement or pushback in the conversation. Rep. Kinzinger the last person President Trump spoke to last night was johnny mac and tea, his head of personnel. Mr. Machen t johnny mcentee, his head of personnel. The decision to resign was one that weighed heavily on people in the discretion. On one hand, people like mr. Pottinger and miss matthews refused to be associated with President Trumps dereliction of duty. But others were worried that leaving President Trump to his own devices would put the country at continued risk. Listen to what we heard about that tension from pets up alone, general mark milley and eugene scalia, secretary of labor. And after that, some people work resigning obviously over january 6. We know who they were. Did i consider it . Yes. Did i do it . No. I was concerned that if people in the counsels office left, who would replace me, and there were concerns it might be somebody who had been getting bad advice. On the morning of january 7, the decision i arrived at was the most distraught the most constructive thing i could think of was to seek a meeting of the cabinet. I thought that trying to work within the administration to steady the ship was likely to have greater value than simply resigning, after which point i would have been powerless to protect things within the administration. So, you thought there should be a Cabinet Meeting . I dont remember why. It probably had something to do with marks view of how the president might react, things like that. There was a couple of calls where meadows, pompeo, like pompeo might say, how is the president doing . And meadows would say, he is in a really dark place. Here is one, for example, on january 7. Potus is very emotional and in a bad place. Rep. Kinzinger you heard secretary scalia wanted President Trump to convene a Cabinet Meeting. He put his request in a memo to the president. Here is what it said. You can see that secretary scalia recommended that the president no longer publicly questioned the Election Results after wednesday. No one can deny this is harmful. Secretary scalia also highlighted the importance of the public knowing the president would invoke his cabinet in decisionmaking and not certain private individuals. Although secretary scalia did not say it, he was referring to Rudy Giuliani and the rest of the socalled clown car working with President Trump to try to overturn the election. Secretary scalia understood the president needed to do more to reassure the public about the last few weeks of the Trump Administration. Mr. Pottinger, when you made the decision to resign, did you walk out of the white house immediately . Mr. Pottinger no. I wanted to first talk to my immediate boss, the National Security Robert Obrien. Robert obrien was traveling on the sixth. I reached him at 4 30 p. M. And told him i was submitting my resignation. He accepted the resignation. But he also asked whether i could stay until he could get back to the white house. And i agreed to that. We both wanted to make sure i was leaving in a responsible way. We still have foreign adversaries to worry about hackers, terrorists, nationstates, and i did not want to leave my chair empty given that i was the top National Security staff in the white house. So, i ended up staying at my desk through the night. When Robert Obrien arrived at the white house the next morning, the morning of the seventh, i with him and left for the last time. Rep. Kinzinger you and i share a passion for the National Security of our country. Can you share with me, what is your view of how january 6 impacted our National Security . Mr. Pottinger when you have a president ial transition, under the best circumstances, it is a time of vulnerability. It is a time of vulnerability. When you have a contested election, i was certainly concerned that some of our adversaries would be tempted to probe or test u. S. Resolve. As an example, in late december, the iranian government attacked the u. S. Embassy in baghdad. They did that using terrorist proxies. President trump did handle that, he sent a very clear warning to the ayatollah and his regime, which i think had a useful effect. I think that we would have handled other threats of that nature and luckily, no other threats materialized before the inauguration on the 20th. But our National Security was harmed in a different way my january 6, and that is that it i think it emboldened our enemies by helping give them any munition give them avenue give them ammunition that our system of government doesnt work, that the u. S. Is in decline. China, the putin regime in russia, tehran, they are fond of pushing those kinds of narratives. And by the way, they are wrong. We have been hearing for the entirety of u. S. History, from kings and despoit kings and despots that the United States have been in decline, and those kings and despots have been wrong every single time. But i think january 6 fed a perception that emboldened our allies. The other thing is our allies, i heard from friends in asia and europe, allies, Close Friends and supporters of the united face, that they were concerned about the health of our democracy. So, i think it is incumbent upon us to put their minds at ease and put our own hearts at ease by investigating what happened on january 6 and make sure it never happens again. Rep. Kinzinger democracies are not defined by bad days, they are defined by how they recover from those bad days, and that is what we are doing here, to bring accountability to that so we can come back Even Stronger than when we went into january 6 miss matthews, as you left the white house for the last time that night of january 6, what did you think americans needed to hear from president . Ms. Matthews the American People needed to see him and hear him commit to a peaceful or at least orderly transition of power. In the aftermath of the capitol attack, it wasnt enough for him to just condemned the violence. He needed to agree that he would peacefully transfer power to the incoming administration. Because that is one of our fundamentals, and what it means to live in a democracy. No, that he when i resigned, the resignation statement that i drafted, i referenced this and i said our nation needs a peaceful transfer of power, in hopes it would put some sort of public pressure on the white house and President Trump to publicly agree to an orderly transition. Rep. Kinzinger thank you. I yield to my friend from virginia. Rep. Luria thank you. The staff who remained at the white house on the morning of january 7 new that the president needed to address the nation again. And they had a speech prepare for him that morning. But he refused four hours to give it. As you heard Cassidy Hutchinson testified previously, President Trump finally agreed to record an address to the nation later that evening, the evening of january 7, because of concerns he might be removed from power under the 25th amendment, or by impeachment. We know these threats were real. Sean hannity said so himself in a text message that day to press secretary kayleigh mcenany. He wrote, no more stolen election talk. Yes, impeachment on the 25th amendment are real. We obtained never before seen raw footage of the president regarding his message to the nation that day on january 7, more than 24 hours after his message from the rose garden lets look. Whenever you are ready. I would like to begin by addressing the heinous attack yesterday and to those who broke the law, you will pay. You do not represent our movement. You do not represent our country. And if you broke the law i cant say that i already said you will pay. The demonstrators who infiltrated the capital have defied the seat defiled, right . I cant see this very well. Lets do this. But this election is now over. Congress has certified the results. I dont want to say the election is over, i just want to say congress certified the results announcing the election is over, ok . Now congress . Right. Let me see. Ok . I would like to begin by addressing the heinous attack yesterday. Yesterday is a hard word for me. [inaudible] take the word yesterday outcome of because it doesnt work with the heinous attack on our country. Say on our country. What to say that once to say that . My only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote. My only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote. Rep. Luria on january 7, one day after he incited to insurrection based on a lie, President Trump still could not say that the election was over. Mr. Pottinger, you have taken the oath multiple times, in the marines and as an official in the executive branch. Can you please share with us your view about the oath of office and how that translates into accepting Election Results and a transfer of power . Mr. Pottinger sure. This isnt the first time we have had a close election in this country. And President Trump had every right to challenge, in court, the result of these various elections. But once you have had to process under the law, you have to conform with the law no matter how bitter the result. Once you have presented your evidence in court, judges have heard that evidence and judges have ruled, if you continue to contest an election, you are not just contesting an election anymore, you are actually challenging the constitution itself. You are challenging the societal norms that allow us to remain unified. For example, you have got Vice President Richard Nixon in 1960, he had lost a hardfought election against senator john f. Kennedy. There were irregularities and not vote, according to histories , and a lot of president a lot of senator nixons support urged him to fight, contested, dont exceed. But in one of his finest moments, Vice President nixon said no, said it would tear the country to pieces. And he conceded to jack kennedy and announced he would support him as the next president. We have an example of a democratic candidate for president , Vice President al gore, who faced a very similar dilemma. He strongly disagreed with the Supreme Court decision that lost his election bid and allowed president george w. Bush to take office. But he gave a speech of concession in mid or late december of 2000 where he said, this is for the sake of the unity of us as a people and for the strength of our democracy, i am going to concede, im going to support the new president. His speech is actually a good model for any candidate for any office, up to and including president , and for any party to read, particularly right now. The oath our president s take is very similar to the oath of office i took as a u. S. Green officer in the oath i took as a white house official. It is to support a u. S. Marine officer and the oath i took as a white house official. It is an oath to defend and protect the constitution. It is an oath we take before our families. It is an oath we take before god. And i think we have an obligation to live by that oath. And i still believe that we have the most ingenious system of government on earth, despite its imperfections. I dont envy countries that dont have this system that actually allows for a predictable, peaceful transfer of government every four to eight years, and it is not something that we should take for granted. Rep. Luria thank you. As we heard at the start of the hearing, in the immediate aftermath of january 6, republican leader mccarthy understood that President Trump bore responsibility for that day and should have taken immediate action to stop the violence. He was even more candid in calls with republican colleagues. As you will hear, recordings of some of these calls were later published by the new york times. The context of the calls set a resolution had been introduced in the house calling for Vice President pence in the cabinet to remove President Trump from power under the 25th amendment. Lets listen. I have had it with this guy. What he did was unacceptable. Nobody did defend him and nobody should defend him. The only thing i told him was that i think this will pass and my recommendation is that you should resign. That was my take, and i didnt think he would take it. Let me be very clear to all of you. I was very clear to the president. He bears responsibility for his words and actions, no ifs, ands or buts. I asked him if he had responsibility for what happened or felt bad for what happened. He told me he did bear some responsibility for what happened. He needs to acknowledge that. Rep. Luria President Trump is never publicly acknowledged his responsibility for the attack. The elites on the apparently did so was he in that private call with kevin mccarthy. There is Something Else President Trump has never acknowledged the names and memories of the officers who died following the attack on the capitol. We are honored to be joined tonight by police and First Responders who bravely protected us on january 6. Your character encourage give us hope that democracy can and should avail, even in the face of a violent insurrection. We on this side can never thank you enough for what you did to protect our democracy. On january 9, two of President Trumps top Campaign Officials texted each other about the president s glaring silence on the tragic death of Capitol Police officer brian sicknick, who succumbed to his injuries on the night of january 7. His Campaign Officials were tim murtaugh and another deputy, matthew walking. Their job was to convince people to vote for president , trump President Trump, so they knew his heart and mind as voice as well as anyone and they knew how he could interact with the porters. Here is heres what they had to say about their boss. Murtaugh says, shitty not commenting on the death of the Capitol Police officer. If he acknowledged a dead cop, it would be explicitly insulting the mob and he wont do that, because they are his people. And he would also be close to acknowledging that the rally got out of control. No way he acknowledges something that could ultimately be called his fault. No way. President trump did not then and does not now have the character or courage to say to the American People what his own people know to be true he is responsible for the attack on the capitol on january 6. Thank you. I yield to the gentleman from illinois. Rep. Kinzinger thank you, miss luria. Tonights testimony and evidence is as sobering as it is straight. Within minutes of stepping off the ellipse stage, donald knew about the violent attack on the capitol. From the comfort of his dining room, he watched on tv as the attack escalated. He sent tweets that inflamed and expressed support for the desire of some to literally kill Vice President mike pence. For three hours, he refused to call off the attack. Donald trump refused to take the urgent advice he received that day not from political opponents or the liberal media, but from his own family, his own friends, his own staff and his own advisors. In the midst of an attack, when there was no time for politics, people closest to trump told him the truth it was his supporters attacking the capitol and that he alone could get through to them. So they played for him to act, they pleaded for him to act, to place country above himself. Still, he refused to lead and to meet the moment to honor his oath. It was only once the Vice President and members of congress were insecure locations and officers defending the capitol began to turn the tide, that then President Trump engaged in the political theater of telling the mob to go home. And even then, he told them all that they were special, and that he loved all of them. Whatever your politics, whatever you think about the outcome of the election, we as americans must all agree on this donald trump conduct on january 6 was a supreme violation of his oath of office and a complete dereliction of his duty to our nation. It is a stain on our history. It is a dishonor to all of those who have sacrificed and died in service of our democracy. When we present our full findings, we will recommend changes to laws and policies to guard against another january 6. The reason that is imperative is that the forces donald trump ignited that day have not gone away. The militant, intolerant ideologies, the militias, the alienation, disaffection, weird fantasies and alienation they are all still out there, ready to go. That is the elephant in the room. But if january 6 has reminded us of anything, i pray it has reminded us of this laws are just words on paper. They mean nothing without Public Servants dedicated to the rule of man who are held accountable by a public that believes oaths matter more than party tribalism or the cheap thrill of scoring political points. We, the people, must demand more of our politicians and ourselves. Ohs both oaths matter. Character metro. Truth matters. If we do not renew commitment to our principles, this experiment about us, this shining beacon on a hill, will not endure. I yield to the gentlewoman from virginia. Rep. Luria thank you. Throughout our hearings, we have abide many facts and painted a vivid picture of the events of january 6 the violence, the human toll, both emotional and physical, including the tragic loss of life, the threats to our constitution, the rule of law and the danger to this nation, a nation we all love as americans. And tonights hearing, we have gone into great detail about events inside the white house on january 6. We have described out the describe how the president of the United States, who is bound by an oath to the constitution and by duty to ensure laws are carried out, took no action what our peaceful transition of power was under attack. But it is more than that. Donald trump summoned a violent mob and promised to lead that mob to the capitol, to compel those he thought would cave to that kind of pressure. And when he was thwarted in his effort to lead the armed uprising, he instigated the attackers to target the Vice President with violence, a man who just wanted to do his constitutional duty. So, in the end, this is not as it may appear, a story of inaction in a time of crisis. But instead, it was the final action of donald trump own plan to usurp the will of the American People and remain in power. Not until it was clear that his effort to violently disrupt or delay in the counting of the Election Results had failed did he send a message to his supporters, in which he commiserated with their pain and he told them affectionately to go home. That was not the message of condemnation and just punishment for those who broke the law that we expect from a president whose oath and duty is to ensure laws are faithfully executed, but instead, it was his newest version of stand back and stand by. To me, this is personal. I first swore an oath to support and defend the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic when i entered the u. S. Naval academy at age 17. I spent two decades on ships at sea, defending our nation from known and identifiable foreign enemies who sought to do us harm. I never imagined that enemy would come from within. Abraham lincoln, 20 three years before the civil war, sad if destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and its finisher. Donald trump was the author and we, the people, for ourselves and our posterity, should not let donald trump the finisher. Thank you. I yield to the vice chair. Vice chair cheney thank you. Dont to thank our witnesses for joining us today. Members of the select committee may have additional questions for todays witnesses and we ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. Without objections, members will be permitted 10 Business Days to submit statements for the record, including opening remarks and questions for our witnesses. I will know turn to chairman thompson or closing words. Chairman thompson the members of the committee and i appreciate and thank all persons who have come forward voluntarily to provide information to help protect our democracy. And our work continues. As we have made clear throughout these hearings, our investigation is going forward. We continue to receive new information every day. We are pursuing many additional witnesses for testimony. We will reconvene in september to continue laying out our findings to the American People, and pushing for accountability. In the first hearing of this series, i asked the American People to consider the facts and judge for themselves. The facts are clear and unambiguous. I think the American People for their attention over the past several weeks. I wish you all a pleasant evening. Vice chair cheney let me again thank our witnesses today. We have seen bravery and honor in these hearings, and ms. Matthews and mr. Pottinger, both of you will be remembered for that, as will Cassidy Hutchinson. She sat here alone, took the oath come and testify before millions of americans. She knew all along that she would be attacked by President Trump and by the 50, 60 and 70 yearold men who hide themselves behind executive rep. Lynch . Behind executive privilege. But like our witnesses today, she has kurds on she did it she has courage and she did it anyway. Cassidy and our other witnesses like shaye and her mother ruby freeman, we are a debt to all of those who have and will appear your. That brings me to another point. This committee has shown you the testimony of dozens of republican witnesses, those who served President Trump loyally for years. The case against donald trump in these hearings is not made by witnesses who were his political enemies. It is instead a series of concessions by Donald Trumps own appointees, his own friends, his own Campaign Officials, people who work for him for years, and his own family. They have come forward and they have told the American People the truth. And for those of you who seem to think the evidence would be different if republican leader mccarthy had not withdrawn his nominees from this committee, let me ask you this do you really think bill barr is such a delicate flower that he would wilt under crossexamination . Pat cipollone, Eric Kirschman Eric Kirschman . Of course not. None of the witnesses are. When donald trump was running for president , he said this, i could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldnt lose any voters. The quote came to mind last week when audio from trump advisor steve bannon surfaced from just a few days before the president ial election. Lets listen. Trump is going to declare victory. He is going to declare victory. That doesnt mean he is the winner. He is just going to say so. The democrats wont have as many votes early in the count, so they will take so they will have a natural disadvantage and trump will take advantage of that. That is our strategy. When you wake up in the morning, there is going to be a firestorm. Also, if trump is losing by 10 00 at night, it is going to be even crazier. He is going to sit right there and say they stole it. If biden is winning. Vice chair cheney and of course, four days later, President Trump declared victory when his own Campaign Advisors told him he had absolutely no basis to do so. What the new steve bannon audio demonstrates is that Donald Trumps plan to falsely claim victory in 2020 no matter what the facts actually were, was premeditated. Perhaps worse, donald trump believed he could convince his voters to buy it, whether he had any actual evidence of fraud or not. And that the same thing continued from election day onward to january 6. Donald trump was confident he could convince his supporters the election was stolen, no matter how many losses he lost. And he lost many of them. He was told in detail the election was not stolen. There was no evidence of widespread fraud. It did not matter. Donald trump was confident he could persuade his supporters to believe whatever he said, no matter how outlandish, and ultimately that they could be summoned to washington to help him remain president for another term. As we showed you last week on the even President Trumps Legal Team Led by Rudy Giuliani new that they had no actual evidence demonstrate the election was stolen. Again, it didnt matter. Here is the worst part. Donald trump knows that millions of americans who supported him would stand up and defend our nation, were it threatened. They would put their lives and freedom at stake to protect her. And he is preying on their patriotism, their sense of justice, and on january 6, donald from turned their love of country into a weapon against our capitol and against our constitution. He purposely created the false impression that america is threatened by a Foreign Force controlling voting machines, or that a wave of tens of millions of calls ballots were secretly injected into our election system, or that ballots workers have secret thumb drives and or stealing elections with them. All complete nonsense. We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation. In late november 2020, while President Trump was still pursuing lawsuits, many of us were urging him to put any genuine evidence of fraud to the courts and accept the outcome of those cases. As january 6 approached, i circulated a memo to my republican colleagues explaining why our congressional proceedings to count electoral votes could not be used to change the outcome of the election. But what i did not know at the time was that President Trumps own advisers, also republicans, also conservatives, including his white house counsel, his Justice Department his Campaign Officials, they were all telling him almost exactly the same thing i was telling my colleagues there was no evidence of fraud or irregularity sufficient to change the election outcome. Our courts ruled. It was over. Now, we know that it did not matter what any of us said, because donald trump wasnt looking for the right answer legally or the right answer factually. He was looking or a way to remain in office. Lets put that aside for a moment and focus just on what we saw today. In our hearing tonight, you saw an american president faced with a stark and unmistakable choice between right and wrong. There was no ambiguity, no nuance. Donald trump made a purposeful choice to violate his oath of office, to ignore the ongoing violence against Law Enforcement to threaten our constitutional order. There is no way to excuse that behavior. It was indefensible. And every american must consider this can a president who is willing to make the choices donald trump made during the violence of january 6 ever be trusted with any position of authority in our great nation again . In this room in 1918, the committee on womens suffrage convened to debate whether women should be granted the right to vote. This room is full of history, and we on this committee know we have a solemn obligation not to idley squander what so Many Americans fought and died for. Ronald reagans great ally margaret said this, open let it never be said that the dedication of those who love freedom is less than the determination of those who would destroy it. Let me assure everyone every one of you this our committee understands the gravity of the moment, the consequences to our nation. We have much work yet to do and we will see you all in september. I request those in the hearing room remain seated until the capitol have escorted witnesses and members from the room. Without objection, the committee stands adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [indiscernible conversations] cspans washington journal. Every day we take your calls live on air on the news of the day. We discuss policy issues that impact you. Coming up saturday morning, we talk about campaign 2022 and democratic will from welfare reform act. Watch washington journal live on cspan, or cspan now, our free mobile app. Join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts, and tweets. In march 2020, a cruise ship experienced a covid19 outbreak, no port would allow them to dock. Sunday, a journalist and two journalists recall what happened aboard the ship with their book. Their eventual safe harbor. The virus became apparent about week into the cruise. Some of the people we talk to looking back say that they noticed certain people were getting sick, coughing even before then. It felt like the Cruise Company gambled that perhaps one last cruise could go out. These 2000 people on board, it is a journey that symbolizes a lot of the heartache we went through. Michael smith and Jonathan Franklin with their book cabin fever, sunday night on cspans q and a. You can listen to q a and all of our podcasts on our free cspan now at. Now app. Next week, ceos of some of americas leading firearm manufacturers will testify on the practices and profits of gun makers. On thursday morning, the House Committee has an oversight meeting on the National Security division. There is also ending Sexual Harassment at the v. A. They return monday for help on the u. S. Computer industry. They want to expand access to veterans. The house is back on tuesday with plans to take up legislation expected to be passed by the senate. They will also vote on wildfire relief and drought bill. Watch live or on our cspan now app. Cspan, your unfiltered view of government. Cspan now, your unfiltered view of washington. Live and ondemand. Keep up with the latest demands of floor proceedings and hearings from u. S. Commerce, white house events, campaigns and more, all in your fingertips. Stay current and find scheduling information with tv networks and cspan radio. 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