Transcripts For CSPAN Illinois 20240703

On capitol hill to testify on the states new antibook man law before the Senate Judiciary committee. He was among a panel of advocates representing both sides of the debate who also addressed censorship and diversity of thought during this two hour hearing. Ty of thought during this two hour meeting. Has considered the negative influence of looks. I ask to start the video. If you want to know the cause, here it is. It is these rotten comic books. It is my opinion without any reasonable doubt or reservation comic books are an important can should beating factor in many cases of juvenile delinquency. A Tennessee School board has been the critically acclaimed graphic novel mouse. It is a true story about the horrors of the holocaust by art spiegelman. The school board claimed it banned the graphic novel because of profanity and nudity. [indiscernible] was over here has a bad word. This over here has a bad word. We dont want our kids to be exposed to these things. We are professionals in our classroom and we know what is best for our students. The kids want to read books. The kids are asking me can i go get a book and read and they are so excited and i have to say no because i have not had a chance to go through all of them and catalog them to write them all down to somebody that is going to tell me, them if they can or cannot read the books in the classroom library. In the 1850s, uncle toms cabin, a classic antislavery novel was banned throughout the southern United States. Two decades later in 1873 Congress Passed the comstock act, a law that made it up to five years in prison for any person who sold or distribute it a book that was obscene or lascivious. The law did not define the terms and hundreds of americans were convicted for distribute in books with topics such as atheism and reproductive health. As the video showed, this Committee Held a series of things in 1954 to examine a threat comic books like superman posed to children. The panic culminated in the comics code that censored comic books for decades. That may seem absurd today that extremists continue to fight popular graphic novels like maus and other books. In 2022 they were over a thousand requests to ban books at Public Schools and libraries. The most in over 20 years. Here are a few of the books that have been banned or restricted in schools and libraries over the past few years. I know why the caged bird sings. The handmaids tale. Narrative of the life of Frederick Douglass. A raisin in the sun. Brave new world. And beloved. These are books written by some of the greatest american authors including trailblazing black women like Toni Morrison and my angela. Even works maya angelou. All in the name of prohibiting materials supposedly related to critical race theory. Lets be clear, efforts to ban books are wrong whether they come from the right or the left. When we ban books like maus or to kill a mockingbird in the name of protecting students we are denying students the opportunity to learn about people and difficult subjects. Limiting access to a book like antisemitism does not protect students from the actual history or the reality that hate still exists. In the name of protecting students, politicians have targeted books that include lgbtq subject matter. One out of every four banned books features lgbtq characters and themes according to penn america. No one is advocating for sexually explicit content to be available in an Elementary School library or children section of the library. That is a distraction from the real challenge. I understand and respect parents may choose to limit what their children read especially at younger ages per my wife and i did. Others do too it no parent should have the right to tell another parents child what they can and cannot read in school or at home. Every student deserves access to books that reflect their experiences and help them better understand who they are. I want to commend senator cornyn who said last year and i quote as a general rule i dont favor banning ageappropriate and subject appropriate books for children. They need to hear diversity of views. That is exactly right. Unfortunately librarians and teachers across the country who are just doing their jobs have been threatened with physical violence and criminal prosecution by a small group of zealots. These efforts to ban books violate our most cherished principles as americans and betray our values as americans. We must protect our students and their freedom to read and learn. I had this off to Ranking Member graham for his opening statement. Sen. Graham . If you are a parent out there listening to this hearing, i would encourage you to advocate for your child. I would encourage you to go to the School District, the library, where ever you believe is appropriate on behalf of your child. You have an obligation as a parent to lend your voice to a because you think helps your child develops in the right way. About this hearing, what is our role here . What am i supposed to do . Am i supposed to take over every school board in the country and veto their decisions about what books go into Public Schools . In the library i dont spend a lot of time in the library. That speaks poorly to me. And my supposed to take over the libraries of this country and be the final say of what goes in a library . I hope not. I think not. This is an important hearing in this regard. It shows the difference of the two parties on this issue. School boards whether elected or appointed in our system should be the people we go to to talk about what is in a school. A Library Board should be the group of people that decides what goes in a library. If you dont like the outcome, at least you can complain. And to all the parents out there who believe there is a bunch of stuff in our schools being pushed on your children that go over the line, you are absolutely right. To governors and local officials who want to make sure agendas are not being pushed upon your children, you are right to speak up. In burbank, california, some School District band Huckleberry Finn district banned very thin, to kill a mockingbird. I dont agree with that but that was your right to make that decision. What i want to leave with you, mr. Chairman is we on this side i think to a person i understand what senator cornyn is saying but he will speak for himself in a minute. And of think there is one person on our side of the aisle that believes we the federal government should be deciding these issues. If you dont like the outcome, pick a school board you do like. It is wrong for conservatives to try to pick school board members. It is absolutely ok for every liberal organization to destroy conservatives who make decisions they dont like. We are not buying this. We are not going to be intimidated. To governors out there, i look to you for leadership on such issues. Some are providing it and congratulations to you. To parents, dont give an inch on this. Speak up. Violence is never the answer but show up. Speak up. A lot of times the books that are being complained about by parents, you cannot even read in the public hearing. I will not read it today. Somebody needs to understand that this is a big issue for many parents in this country and mr. Chairman, this committee has done a lot of good work on social media reform. We worked on immigration. We can have our differences. But to me, here is what we should be talking about right now. And i will be brief. As we talk about the federal governments role in deciding what goes in library or school, there has been a three to 47 increase in illegal crossings in 2020, 183,000 people came over illegally in july. Have had 146 people on the terrorist watch list. In fy 22 which is about 2. 4 million came across. Since President Biden has been president five and half Million People have come across illegally. That is bigger than the state of South Carolina. Last couple of weeks, smugglers with isis ties helped migrants enter the u. S. From mexico raising alarm bells. I would like to be talking about that. You can get the classified briefing. Finally, just not me saying these things. New york city, the mayor, is at capacity. We have no more room in the city. This is a National Crisis that begs for a National Response since day one. The migrant crisis will destroy new york city. New york city will experience a financial tsunami. The mayor is right. We should be trying to find a way to fix this problem. That to me is the biggest priority facing this committee and as to this panel, i will listen but i will end where i started. It is not our job to decide these things and if you are a parent, dont be intimidated. Sen. Durbin we join in bipartisan effort a few years ago. Four democrats, four republicans wrote a comprehensive Immigration Reform bill which i still think in whole can be used today as a template for where we need to go. But for 30 Years Congress has failed to pass Immigration Reform. As a consequence many of the things happening on the border and across our nation are the result. I stand ready and i mean it sincerely and personally. I say this to my friend from South Carolina together together for another gang of eight or 10 or four to put together a comprehensive Immigration Reform bill. I think we both know what the likelihood of that passing in the other body is but that should not deter us from doing our duty. Im ready to do it again. As the publication of books in important part is the publication of books an important part of our jurisdiction . The constitution is our jurisdiction. The constitution raises questions i think will be addressed today in this hearing. Senator cornyn. Sen. Cornyn thank you, mr. Chairman but i just want to point out we have not had a markup on an immigration bill in this committee is a committee of jurisdiction since the current chairman has been chairman. And even when our democratic colleagues were in charge of both the house, the senate and the white house, we have not considered any immigration bills. I think senator tillis join me in a letter to you as chairman asking we make some attempt to try to craft something that might generate bipartisan support. About two years ago, senator sinema, the senator from arizona and i and also Tony Gonzales who represents the largest border district in the country and henry cuellar, a democrat, introduced a bipartisan, bicameral Border Solutions act i think we called it. My thought was at some point things would get so bad that President Biden or perhaps even our democratic colleagues might be prompted to actually do something instead of just talk about it. And i guess i was wrong. In the meantime as senator graham points out, there have been literally millions i think 7 Million People coming across the border since President Biden was president. There been 108,000 americans died in drug overdoses last year alone. We know the fentanyl which is taking many of our childrens lives in our schools, that 71,000 of those 800,000 108,000 were synthetic opioids. We know where the drugs were manufactured and pressed into pills that kids take and die. And then of course there is 300,000 children placed with sponsors. Unaccompanied children in the Biden Administration cant tell you where they are. They cannot tell you whether they are going to school, getting health care. They cannot tell you whether they are being trafficked for sex or forced in involuntary labor. And frankly they dont care. Because if they did, they would want to do something about it. So i will volunteer to work with you or anybody but it has got to be more than just talk. It has got to be action. Nobody else can do this job. We are the ones who have to do the job if it is going to get done. So far, i dont see much in the way of action. Sen. Durbin i would just say in response the bill we worked on with the gang of eight, senator mccain, Centre Graham and others was a good faith bipartisan effort which i still think has validity to this day. And it took more than just a Committee Hearing to achieve. It took people with goodwill trying to Work Together and compromise. Im sorry you did not support that bill. That i think it was a bill we ought to return to at this time. Im ready to do that any point at a think we need to do so. Sen. Graham mr. Chairman, i will take you up on that. Bring the bill forward. Let john tell us what he did not like about it. I can make it better and let us vote. America is really in a National Crisis of the mayor of new york city. Not lindsey graham. This is incredibly dangerous, incredibly irresponsible. Afghanistan is now in the hands of the taliban, the threat of terrorism against the United States is getting worse and not better. Isa smugglers and full of getting people into the United States. If you brought the gang of eight will any other bill as the base bill and have a debate on this committee would be well served. We could all vote. We could all amend it and i look forward to doing that. Sen. Durbin lets start by having our stuff take a look at the bill. Seven or eight years now . Lets update it which im sure well have to do in some respects and see if we can move it forward. As long as it is a bipartisan and has a chance of passing in the senate as well as the house i think it is a good effort to sen. Cornyn if i think i can respond briefly, i cannot even remember when the gang of eight bill was on the floor. Was that 2016 . 13. 10 years ago. And it did not pass the house. I know you are proud of that product but unfortunately it did not pass the house and as well know from schoolhouse rock, a bill becomes a law when it passes both chambers of commerce and gets the president ial signature. Forgive me for saying this but that bill failed to succeed. I know you are proud of it but that was also a different time than we are in now. Before the biden border crisis became so dire. I think there is a different dynamic. Certainly there is a republican house. They are not going to take up and pass a gang of eight bill. You know that. I know that. Everybody knows that. So forgive me but when you keep talking about the gang of eight bill as somehow being the gold standard, i have to disagree. Mr. Chairman, may i ask you a question . Sen. Durbin you may. Mr. Chairman, i was not here when the bill that you obviously favor was considered by the senate. My question is simple. Did it grant amnesty to folks who were in our country illegally . Sen. Durbin know, senator. I dont believe the dead. The decision in the bill was those who are undocumented currently living in the night states would report themselves to the government and pay their taxes and their social security. They would not qualify for citizenship. At least in the outset. The idea was to get everybody on the books once and for all. I think that is a positive step forward. It did have a favorable section for dreamers which as you can imagine i had some interest in. But how is that not amnesty acrylate sen. Durbin dream act . How is that not amnesty . Sen. Durbin it is not as if they are being forgiven for wrongdoing. They were brought to the country as infants. I dont think there was any culpable conduct on the part of these dreamers. So you were allowed to register and if you registered you could stay indefinitely . Sen. Durbin a path to citizenship for dreamers. There was no culpable conduct on the part of infants brought here to this country. Im just trying to understand. It just sounds to me like that is amnesty. Sen. Durbin in your eyes it may be. If a child is brought here at the age of two to say they are guilty of some criminal act and should have criminal culpability i think is an extreme position. Im not trying to say twoyearolds are bad people. Im trying to understand what your bill does. It sounds like it is amnesty. Sen. Durbin it is lengthy. If i may, mr. Chairman, i was part of that. Here is what i will tell my good friend. Have to get bipartisan buyin. Have to secure your border. If you dont it is a fruitless exercise. Need to increase legal immigration. We dont have enough people to work in our economy. Need to deal with the people here illegally. I have been open to doing all of those things but it is 2023 and senator cornyn mentioned it did not make it. Even i would say in 2023 the problem is so much bigger than it was before. It would take more effort on the border. It would take a real lift to stop the flow. I am willing to work with you. I am willing to compromise but the administration has done a thing. Has done nothing. They sent a bill nobody on our side would support. It was the dream of the left. At the end of the day, i dont mind disagreeing with republicans about how to fix an immigration system to i do mind doing nothing about it. The sooner we can have this debate in this committee and you may be surprised. It might be consensus. Big bills, small bills, middle bill. Something is better than nothing. America is under siege and we need to fix this problem. Sen. Durbin we are going to return to the subject of this hearing shortly. Senator klobuchar. Sen. Klobuchar im looking forward to hearing from us is. I did want to point out the argument nothing has been considered for eight years or Something Like that. When you look at the arc of time on this when president bush was in, he wanted desperately republican president to get this done. Under graham was in the group that works senator graham was in th group that worked on this. You fastforward to obama. Even during President Trump, there was a major effort made by senator round if you remember that was maybe wet Center Graham was eating at when he talked about a more limited bill. It had funding for the border. Significant funding for the border. It also included more work on work permits and visas. Something people on this committee, a number of people on both sides of the aisle carry care about very much. Dreamers work covered under the bill. Temporary status. I dont member every detail but what i do remember is we had enough republican senators to get over the line. The house was going to pass it and unfortunately President Trump rejected the proposal and so then it died. That is what happened. I only point that out because that was a very recent bipartisan effort compared to the one that was eight years ago. So this has continued and to say this was a bell or any of that, this was about moving our country forward because yes, border, do more but no great country has expanded with a shrinking workforce. We have made it so difficult for doctors and nurses and for people that want to be here. It has made it really hard in many of our states in the access, in the hospitality sector and others. I believe immigrants dont diminish america they are america and we have to find a way to do this. One of the arguments that always seems to get lost is the economic argument for how important this is right now for our countrys future. Sen. Durbin senator whitehouse . Sen. Whitehouse i wanted to observe your long and passionate advocacy for Immigration Reform were tickly around dreamers and recognize the Ranking Member for his helpful participation in multiple efforts in reforming the immigration system. I think with you both as chair and Ranking Member there is a prospect for doing something bipartisan and useful in this committee. Count me in. I would also flag the next budget Committee Hearing coming up is on the economic value of more robust immigration which has very powerful economic value for americans. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, if i may. I am glad i brought this up. It seems to be a lot of interest about what to do. The bill senator klobuchar mention, it got 54 votes. I remember it well. There are many combinations, small, medium and large. Problem is not just small, medium and large. It is unbelievably out of control. Ive been doing this since 2006. I never dreamed we would be where we are today with the policies that a sickly ri in that basically are in shambles. Whether you like President Trump or not, we have the lowest illegal crossings on his watch. What happened . Democratic president changed all of those policies and we have a tsunami of Illegal Immigrants destroying new york city, other cities. Rather than talking today about what we should do, i dont care what the base bill is. It can be what senator klobuchar said. It can be any bill you want as the base bill. I would like to get this committee involved in trying to fix this problem. Sen. Durbin lets do it starting with that bill. Perhaps others. Today we welcome five witnesses. I turned to ranking the program. Our first witness is the secretary of state of illinois. Sec. Giannoulias its as state librarian for lanai as well. He successfully worked to great resources on books based on partisan or personal objections in line noise. Look forward to hearing more about his effort in my home state. We are joined by professor emily knox, associate professor at the university of illinois. Expert on censorship of literature and the author of the book book banning in the 21st century america. Final majority witness is cameron samuels. Cameron is a current student at Brandeis University and graduate of seven likes high school in katy texas. In high School Cameron led efforts to fight censorship in their community. They are the cofounder of students engaged in advancing taxes, a group that works to sen. Graham i have nicole nelly. She is president and founder of parents defending education. Organization has the goal for claiming schools from activists permitting political agendas by fostering education based on scholarship. She is the founder of speech first, a National Campus Free Speech Organization that has worked at the independent womens forum and the cato institute. She received a bachelors of arts in Political Science from university of illinois, her master of Foreign Policy in pepperdine spared our second witness is max eden. A Research Fellow at the American Enterprise institute. K12 and Early Childhood education and was previously Senior Member of the manhattan institute. Aei is a Public Policy think tank dedicated to expanding human tensile and thing a for your and safer world. He cowrote the book the mirage report scholars from the Heritage Foundation debunking the myth of a book ban crisis in the United States. Sen. Durbin the procedure is customary. Five minutes from each witness to make an opening statement. Each senator allotted five minutes. Please try to remain within your allotted time. Im going to ask the witnesses to stand and raise their right hand and take an oath. Youre from the testimony youre about to give is the truth cover the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . Let the record show the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Sec. Giannoulias good morning, chairman derman, chairman durbin, recommended graham, thank you for allowing me the honor and privilege for being here this morning. One of the most exciting responsibilities of serving as secretary of state in the state of illinois since january of this year is the ability to serve as the states librarian. As our youth continue to need Educational Assistance in catching up after the destruction caused by covid, i believe i buries in everything look in unity across this country have had an especially Critical Role to play in increasing Educational Opportunities for all americans. Imagine my surprise when in the year 2023 is that of inheriting a debate over what more can be done with and for our libraries i was confronted with a book banning movement upon taking office. Our libraries have become targets by a movement that disingenuously claims to pursue freedom but is instead promoting authoritarianism. Authoritarian regimes and books. Regimes ban books. Not democracies. Tragically our libraries have become the thunderstorms the hundred domes of controversy across our nations the likes of which weve never seen before. These radical attacks on our libraries have divided our communities and our librarians have been harassed, threatened and intimidated for simply doing their jobs. The need to stand up and fight for our freedoms and librarians especially at this perilous time for our democracy is why i initiated house bill 2789 in lynn noise. This legislation, the first of its kind in the United States is a triumph for democracy, a win for First Amendment rights and a great victory for future generations to come. Under this legislation, illinois libraries will not be eligible for state funded grants if they ban books this legislation will remove the pressure librarians have had to endure over the last couple years. This legislation is important because both the concept and practice of banning books contradicts the essence of what our country stands for and what are the mock receipt was founded on. It also defies what education is all about. Teaching our children to think for themselves. If the book banners care to, they can go to our libraries and check out the federalist papers, the u. S. Constitution and Supreme Court cases on the First Amendment. Our democracy depends on the marketplace of ideas. That marketplace of ideas will not function if we ban books because we will be banning ideas and preventing our children from thinking for themselves and having the ability to debate and learn and understand different perspectives. We will be banning knowledge, culture, empathy, understanding and diverse and inferring worldviews. Ray bradberry, the acclaimed illinois author who wrote fahrenheit 451 was quoted as saying the problem in our country is not with books being banned but with people no longer reading. You dont have to burn books to destroy culture. Just get people to stop reading them. That is where the real danger lies. Parents, and only parents have the right and responsibility to monitor the access of their children and only their children to library resources. There are more than two and half thousand instances of books being banned in schools last year including Many American classics such as 1984, adventures of 4 a very for an, the kite runner, and i know why the caged bird sings by maya angelou. I have three young daughters. There are some books and titles my wife and i dont feel are ageappropriate for them. But i could never imagine a world where i would tell another family what books their kids should or should not be allowed to read. Book banners say they want local control. What is more local than controlling what takes place in your own household . That is the very definition of local control. The ultimate irony is by instituting more book bans, these groups once the government to have more of a say in telling everyones children what to think and believe. That his government overreach at its peak. Books are a vital way to open our minds to open our minds to other cultures, religions, identities and possibilities. Lets all remember at the Mental Health crisis growing across the country. Access to books and the freedom of expression help battle isolation. Books connect us and promote empathy and understanding. Our legislation establishes a clear path opposite and away from the damaging trend to ban and censor books a small you disagree with. We need to take any hint of censorship seriously because free speech is not only crucial to democracy but imperative for the survival of our civilization. Last point i will make. This issue should have nothing to do with political party. This is not a republican or democratic issue. This is a freedom of speech or ideas issue. Not once during the creation of this legislation that i ask a librarian if they were a democrat or republican. Not once did i ask an author if they were a democrat or republican. That was that i ask a constitutional expert if they were a democrat or republican. Every person we spoke to not only was in favor of our legislation but was deeply concerned with even the concept of book banning. We want our schools and libraries to be open and welcoming settings for education. Not cultural battlefields. This legislation aims to unify our communities and seeks to restore a right some of us may have run to take for granted. The freedom to think for ourselves. It is my hope others may look toward illinois and see the value in adopting our legislation as a model to stop book banning in its tracks and protect the right to read freely and without fear of retribution. I could not the more proud of this legislation. I implore everyone in this room to please be on the right side of history and pushback against these book bans in every and any way possible. Thank you again to the committee. Mr. Eden german durbin, acumen program, chairman durbin, Ranking Member graham, thank you for letting me testify. Im a Research Fellow at the American Enterprise institute. To put it bluntly, books are not in band. And it is good they are. Media keeps using the word banned that were does not mean what you think it means. In common usage it means being made unavailable yet the most banned gender queer Still Available on amazon. The same cannot be said for Ryan Andersons when harry became sally. Only books on one side of that issue it seems actually get banned. This conversation focuses on School Library availability. If ban means made unavailable, then virtually every book ever published has been banned in School Libraries. That is not what this word means here. A book can be both banned and totally available in School Library. That is because the media has accepted the expansive definition of banned offered by an america. If a book has been taken off the shelves, reviewed and placed back on the shelves and has according to penn been banned. If a School Places a parental permission requirement on a book it has according to penn been banned. If a school moves a book to a Guidance Counselors office it has according to penn been banned. In their report band and the usa penn draws parallels to nazi germany. My public School Library to not carry School Library did not carry mein kampf. I read a few books about the era and i have so far missed the part where the nasty party forced schools to relocate books to Guidance Counselors offices. The Heritage Foundation set out to assess how many of the 2532 books in the 2022 report labeled as banned were removed from School Libraries. We did this with one simple trick. We checked the card had a card catalogs. Nearly three quarters of the books penn labeled as banned still in School Libraries. Careful analysis lies the claim books are being banned because of race or lgbt issues or is penn america labels but you give as we found it available and every School Library in question. On the Washington Post examined over a thousand review requests made by parents less than 7 mentioned lgbt without also containing the word sexual. Although those requests may have contained words like pornographic or obscene. That is what this issue is really about. The provision of sexually explicit material to children by public employees. This is a question of judgment. Few would say it is unreasonable to keep with its photographs out of School Libraries. Few would insist romeo and juliet with its lyrical allusions to sex should be removed. Kennedys must draw the line somewhere between those two points. But where exactly . Take the previously mentioned book gender queer. That graphic novel famously includes a picture of a strap on dildo blow job. Is this ok for kids . You know something is going on when parents try to read passages of these books at School Board Meetings in the school board cuts them off because they insist the material is too obscene to be read out loud. I guess kids could be listening. Great for them to read but inaccessible for them to hear unacceptable for them to hear . Its kind of gross to santa dont want to but this year has been called and we cannot have an honest discussion without knowing what we are talking about. We are talking about books with exquisite passages about the sting, the or swallow decision and rape. I will read a passage from a few of the most banned books. From all boys are not blue. Fully erect at this point. You promise you are not going to tell anyone . You grabbed my hand and made me touch it. Is the first time id ever touched a penis that was not my own. Cousins were not supposed to do these things with cousins. From the also fourth most banned lawn boy. Out in the bushes behind the parsonage i talked dougs dictum ck and he touched mine. 10yearolds. Performing sodomy, underage incest and 10 euros performing blood jobs. Getting by the fuss made by the media, ngos and democratic politicians it seems there is a politically significant contingent that believes this is very good for kids. Personally, i am not troubled by the fact some moms believe this is inappropriate and some School Boards agree. I find it kind of weird the senate is troubled enough to call a hearing about this. Thank you. Sen. Durbin thank you. Professor knox. Turn on your microphone. There you go. Prof. Knox thank you, chairman durbin, Ranking Member graham and members of the committee for giving me the opportunity to testify at this hearing. I am an associate professor at the school of Information Sciences at the university of illinois herb and a champagne. I am board chair at the of censorship. I served as president of the free country foundation, the legal arm of the American Library association. I testimony does not reflect the views of the university of illinois, and cac come if trf or the ala. My research focuses on information access, intellectual freedom and censorship, information ethics and policy. I was born in nashville, tennessee and grew up in columbia, maryland. I studied religion at both Smith College and the university of chicago. After looking as a product assistant at the law firm of kirkland and ellis, i received my ms ellis from the eye school at illinois. After working as a Theological Library and for five years i attended the Doctoral Program at the school of communication information at records university. Books and libraries have always been a part of my life. My mother was a High School Librarian in montgomery co. , maryland for 32 years could i often spent my summers with her shelving, conducting inventory and checking in magazines. He always observed banned books week. Mom would wring home the list of books that have been challenged and my favorite author judy blume was almost always on the list. The characters in her book seemed like real people to me. Me and my friends. I can understand why people would want me to not read looks would not want me to read books about my own life. Father was a professor at Morgan State University in baltimore. When i followed in his footsteps picketing a phd, i knew what i wanted to study. Why do people attempt to ban books . It is not surprising the reasons are clear. Reading is powerful and the freedom to read can be frightening. According to the office for intellectual freedom, over 25 hundred unique titles were targeted for censorship in 2022. Almost all the books can be categorized as diverse. Books by annabelle lgbtqia, native people natives, people of color, gender diversity, people with disabilities and ethnic and cultural religious minorities. At the same time researchers have found the percent of americans oppose book bans and public light in public libraries. 67 oppose bending books in School Libraries. Books are one of the most powerful technologies in the world. They bring ideas across both time and space in a small portable package. During this Current Crisis there is a lot of discussion about whether or not books are harmful or dangerous or hurtful. This depends on who is reading them. As jesse sharon noted, we do not know what happens when an individual reads a book. Each person brings their own experiences to the book and those experiences will determine the response. These interpretations are never static. Bishop argued books are mirrors, windows and sliding glass doors. A book can help us understand each other by helping to change our attitude towards difference. What we see right now is people are fixated on the idea books are only mirrors and sliding glass doors. The only reflect something true about the reader themselves or the readers of world war they invite the reader to mimic an identity or action they read about in book. It is important to remember books are also windows. Give us access to other peoples lives. Cary h robinson notes adults often censor difficult knowledge. Knowledge many adults find challenging to address in their own lives but especially with children. What could be more difficult than knowledge that can define your identity . In order to describe your truth you must have the words to do so. These campaigns to censor books are unconstitutional and against every persons right to intellectual freedom to that is the right of every individual to hold, express opinions and seek access, receive and impart information and ideas without restriction. The First Amendment States Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. Our right to speak, to write, publish and read are protected by the constitution. These rights are not based on whether people agree with the ideas being expressed. We muster member as citizens of the United States we are a free people and it is our right to read freely. Sen. Durbin thank you, professor knox. Ms. Neily thank you for inviting me today. I am the president of parents defending education, a Membership Association that gives parents the knowledge and tools they need to be Effective Advocates for their childrens education. Books have become a flashpoint in schools over the past for years. Headline and Research Papers have intentionally muddied the waters between what to book burning app is happening in americas k12 schools. If you your one thing, families concern about books and schools are not booked any. Book issue is a correction issue. But be obvious a book part of a lesson plan in second grade classroom is more concerning than a book that can be voluntarily checked out from a Public Library and sensitive topics read to children is more concerning than high schoolers. Jesting kids who believe in santa in connecticut, one resident said the school board desire to put parental consent rules in place for a few books described as obscene and explicit was. A matter of life and death. It is not. When we do hear from parents about books the phrase we hear is ageappropriate. School boards across the country cut the microphones of parents read passages from these books stating this is inappropriate. Their children in the room. Those same books are being provided to children in schools. While it may seem politically convenient to scapegoat parents, i ask you to read some of these paragraphs and look at these sexual images with your children or your grandchildren and tell your constituents whether you consider such content educational. As a society we dont have playboy in kindergarten. Media coverage over this issue frames any discussion at all as tear ready. Classrooms, schools and libraries have finite space and must select which materials are on display at any given time. They must prioritize certain purchases over others. How these decisions are made and who is involved in the process is a matter of public accountability. When people ask questions, they are crucified. Pretending objections to minors accessing explicit Sexual Conduct is a threat to liberty and literature is a straw man and a distraction from real concerns of the quality of childrens education and with her students are safe in school. Second, the book issue as a parental awareness issue. It is not partisan to assert children do better when their families know what is going on in their lives. This is not rocket science. The more information parents have the better they can their kids emotionally and academically. When schools lobby for increased Mental Health funding for which the government has provided hundreds of millions of dollars they are exacerbating the problem. When kids are given assignments beyond the comp ranch and level even adults find challenging violence, war crime, rape, incest and more itchy, as no surprise when children become depressed or hope. Books from school should be discussed with loved ones to provide historic context. Parents know the young learners courts and preferences. These decisions may differ between children in the same family of the same age based on maturity. Children deserve education that meets their needs. Such public flagellation is intended to not only extract upon the flesh of the perpetrator but to send to a parent of similar reservations. Far too many schools keep families at arms length which could not come at a worse time. Kids could benefit if the adults in their lives were together in their best interest. Families are considered adversaries. Not even entitled to basic information about their children. In wisconsin one School District teacher Training Session stated parents are not entitled to another kids identities. That knowledge must be earned. My organization has documented over a thousand District Across the country with parental exclusion policies which state families dont have a right to know their childs gender identity in taxpayerfunded school. It is not people to want to be involved in your childs education. Every time a parent is falsely accused of wanting to ban a book because of a reasonable concern about subject matter appropriateness, neighbors are pitted against each other based on dishonest remedies. This is a deliberate attempt to demonize parents and to their speech and activism. 20 years ago if a six road went to school and talked about sex teachers would assume that child was being abused. In 2023 children are not only learning about sex at school but are being told to keep secrets from their families as well. Please stop mocking parents. Please stop namecalling. Please listen to the families who want their children to learn basic grammar. Who want their young childrens innocence to be preserved for a few years longer than an activist academic might ancestry sen. Durbin thank you. Cameron samples cameron samuels. Thank you for this opportunity to address you this morning. I am cameron samuels, a student from katie texas. I use genderneutral pronouns they them. I am the executive rector of students engaged in advancing texas. In 2022 i graduated and a district of more than 90,000 students. In recent years, we faced a socalled culture war over books. My experience began when a few people sought to ban new kid today Childrens Book like any other pits some weaponized identity to censor black books. The conversation on books quickly escalated and i signed up to speak at the next meeting. Walking into the board room that night, i realized i was the only student there. I was the only one whose future was directly affected by the districts decision. Adults spoke for restricting Student Access to literature. When my turn came, i spoke for a complete education and the freedom to learn. They applauded the adults gave me silence leaving me isolated in a room. People making policy about students without us at table. In the following months, i stood up for my freedom. My School District removed h relevant books at record pace. Nearly all were targeted for identity such as lgbtq themes, diversity and religion should these books represent students. We found ourselves more in challenged books than in School Libraries. I gathered student groups to distribute hundreds of challenged books strict wide. We packed aboard meetings in committee the new that students deserved better. Censorship limits our ability to learn. When katie targeted maus i could not fathom cartoon mice walking shamefully naked to gas chambers were considered sexual by the challengers. My ancestors fled religious persecution in eurasia. I faced too many antisemitic remarks in school to remember. Classmates told me the holocaust did not exist. Many cannot name a jewish person so the learn about judaism from media representation often dominated by stereotypes. Books like maus peach accurate reflections of jewish identity. If a friend with the real extent of a holocaust, maybe they would have thought twice before spring cologne in my face saying he was guessing the jew. Where they burn books, they burn people. Flamer illustrates a queer full scalp bullied and boy scout bullied and traumatized. I saw myself facing similar harassment. He gave me words for my trauma but it was banned. Responding to Police Report against the book officers entered a high school to remove at. In history, the secret police acted similarly. My ancestors fled from across the world to escape. Not only school censor books but our state, students and i introduced amendments with senators to book ban bills. They were rejected and the bill faces a court injunction. Historically censorship is never on the right side of history. My stay is home to 8 Million People under the age of 20. Since everything is bigger in texas, we lead the nation for book bans. Censorship impacts our future. Students deserve to be decisionmakers. Censorship is undemocratic. Viewpoint discrimination is contrary to the First Amendment. The Supreme Court rules it to protect literature from scrutiny against identity. We may not see eye to eye but we are facing a student rights crisis nationwide. As a 17yearold, i should not have been focused on defending my rights from bigotry. I should have been learning. Ensuring education reflects its primary stakeholders, the students, we can proceed with a solution to censorship that facilitates collaboration between students, families and educators. Thank you. Sen. Durbin thank you. We have a round of questions from senators. Which have five minutes. I would like to address my question to sec. Giannoulias. The American Library association has written the following. 1260 nine demands to censor Library Books in 2022. The highest number of attempted book dance since a ole began compiling data about censorship in libraries more than 20 years ago. The unparalleled number of reportable challenges in 2022 nearly doubles the 720 nine challenges reported in 2021. The first part of my question is going to ask you to address that statement by the American Library association in light of testimony before us that this is much ado about nothing. The second one is the notion book extremists are not that prevalent. Book banning has reached new heights over the past two years. Local leaders and a state such as texas, florida, utah, missouri, iowa, indiana and others have all recently enacted legislation facilitating banning books and a School Districts and libraries. These new laws provide for Civil Penalties and or jail time for violations and pose great risk for teachers and librarians. But is why groups like the American Library association has spoken out. Can you reflect on those two statements . Sec. Giannoulias the two are related. As the state librarian, i talked to libraries, School Libraries, public libraries. The level of threats, intimidation, physical threats in talking to librarians, these are not my viewpoints. They have never seen it in their entire careers. Because of these political attempts to ban books, we are seeing libraries close down at record numbers. It is difficult to find new librarians who want to serve in roles that used to be their dream jobs. Just a few weeks ago in the suburbs of chicago, numerous libraries received bomb threats and were forced to close their doors. So i can tell you in illinois, it is very real and across the country, the problem is worse. Again, what our bill aims to do and will do is fight for and protect these librarians. We have to fight for our librarians. We also have to trust that they have the professional judgment, experience to make decisions on what books belong in circulation. They should not be up to fringe elements screaming from the rooftops about books theyve never read. These are librarians and individuals that have advanced degrees in library science. Masters of library science, masters of information and library science. It is important to make sure that we allow them to determine what is in circulation and it is important for us to trust parents to determine what books their kids should read. Again, it is not up to parents to tell other parents what books kids should read. Another point i would like to make when it comes to our legislation. We are not advocating for any single book to be at a library or not be at a library. What we are saying is, lets trust our librarians to make those decisions, not an angry parent who disagrees with a certain viewpoint. Judy bloom said recently, i believe that censorship grows out of fear. Because fear is contagious, some parents are easily swayed. Book banning satisfies their need to feel in control of their childrens lives. This fear is often disguised as moral outrage. They want to believe that if their children do not read about it, then their children will not know about it. And if they do not know about it, it will not happen. As i mentioned in my opening remarks, i have three young daughters. Of course, there are books that are not ageappropriate, but that is what being a parent is all about. Doing your best to keep an eye on what your children read and what they consume. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I would say, as well, in the context of the world we live in where so much information is so available to people carrying simply iphones or any laptop computer they have access to, that we ought to be honest and realistic about that. I agree with you. The first responsibility is the parents responsibility. We believe there are age appropriate restrictions that can be introduced in libraries and other places which generally are consistent with freedom of expression. Thank you. Lets just build on what has been said. How do you say your name . Alexi giannoulias. A Public Library is supported by public dollars. Does that make sense . Yes. Ok. Are you telling taxpayers of this country to shut up . All you worry about is your kids. Do not have a voice about how your taxpayer dollars are being spent and what kind of community you are living in here . Because you are a parent and you do not let your three daughters read something, is it possible that the other thing that the books in question may hurt the community in the eyes of parents. Can a parent, a tax payer complaint under this theory, or should they just shut up . Sec. Giannoulias i would make the exact argument. Sen. Graham we are not making the same argument. My argument is you just said if youve got kids, you please your kids. Otherwise, shut up and trust the library system, the school system. Let them decide for your community. I completely, totally reject that. I do not have any kids. Should i shut up . I pay taxes. When you have a Public Library and you have a board, somebody decides what books go in and what not to go in, lend your voice to the cause. It is ok to speak out for your community. Cameron, you have an Advocacy Group in texas, right . Cameron that is correct. Sen. Graham you have every right to do that. You can advocate for your point of view and somebody in texas has to decide who wins. But never shut up, never the never be quiet. My point is, the theory of this case is parents have a very limited role in life. Apparently, taxpayers have a very limited role in this area. We are paying money to run these libraries. I mean, you are getting money from taxpayers. They should speak up. Ms. Knox, you said, is it unconstitutional for a parent to go to a school board or Public Library and complain . Prof. Knox thank you for giving me the chance to respond. Actually, almost all libraries have in their policies something called a request for reconsideration that allows parents or Interested Community Members to object or say what they would like to have changed in a library collection. I think what is important to remember is that this is a collective decision. It is not just one person who gets to say what is in the library collection. Sen. Graham i am not arguing with you. Somebody has to decide, but the point is the individual here, the individual taxpayer, the individual parent, there is an effort in this country to shut you up. Listen to me or you have got to shut up. Ms. Neily we will absolutely not shut up. I am here on behalf of 10,000 members of parents defending education who want to have a voice in their childrens education. Yet every time they speak up, they are mocked, shamed, intimidated, silenced, and bullied by elected officials who do not want them to speak up. Who are told that they are book banners and they are ashamed of that. We will not stop. After covid, we had a window with what our children were learning and not learning and we were disappointed by that. Parents have not stopped and they will not stop advocating for their children. Because the gatekeepers have shown that they do not have our childrens best interest at heart. They have their money and the power structure in heart at the end of the day. Sen. Graham mr. Eden, is there an organized effort in this country to push ideas, books, literature through the Public School system in libraries that has a very Strong Political agenda behind it . Is that what you were telling us . Mr. Eden im thinking its pretty clear that that is what is going on here, sir. Sen. Graham if you do not see that, you are blind. In florida, ron desantis did something you may not like, mr. Chairman. In illinois, they do it a different way. But Governor Desantis decided he would go in and stop what he thought was abusive from his point of view. My point about this hearing is there is no roll up here for any of us. Illinois, you do it the way you want, florida, you do it the way you want. Each School Library, you will decide. But the day that a parent, a concerned citizen cannot come forward and say i object without being humiliated is a bad day for america. And there is nothing in the constitution preventing everybody in this country for having a say to express yourself. To try to mold the community in a way that you think is better. And some of the things being pushed through this agenda are, quite frankly, offensive. I think you made the point earlier and i will repeat it. We all, i hope, agree regardless of our political philosophy, that there are lines that cannot be crossed. Violence is one of those lines. Humiliation is one of those lines as far as i am concerned. I think what we are talking about is policy in this country when it comes to the basic rights guaranteed by the constitution. Senator whitehouse. Sen. Whitehouse thank you very much. My question is going to be for secretary giannoulias. There is one view of the facts here which is that the conflicts we have seen in School Libraries and in School Board Meetings involving the School Library and the local people who serve on the school board grow out of natural concerns by school parents. There is also significant reporting suggesting that National Groups funded by right wing organizations fueled by dark money, using people who have no child in the school and may not even be from the state come into town and mount a surprise attack on local people like a school librarian. People who work in the school, people who serve on the School Committee who are just local people trying to serve the school who do not have any preparation for dealing with that kind of sudden disruption and political attack. Particularly one that is well scripted, wellfinanced, and basically comes in like an outofstate artillery garage on the unsuspecting school. Artillery barrage on the unsuspecting school. In your investigation into all of this, which of those two factual descriptions is closer to the truth . Thank you, senator. We have seen, heard, and read about instances where rightwing groups, extremist groups, are trying to shut down or censor a certain book, access to certain books. Which is why, again, our legislation is very important to protect librarians and their ability to determine what books belong in circulation. I am saddened that senator graham left. He did not give me a chance to respond. Around this whole notion that protecting the right to read and fighting against censorship is somehow antiparent is one of the most ludicrous arguments i have ever heard. What we are saying is do not let one parent who disagrees with a certain worldview determine what book whether or not a book should be in the library. That goes against the very point of our democracy. What it means to educate our youth, which is to allow them to think for themselves. And, quite frankly, its an antirepublican argument. Republicans are the ones that, allegedly, are the ones who fight against censorship and the ones who fight for our constitution and the freedom of speech. Yet here they are picking a page out of a random book that they do not agree with and making it sound like parents have no say. That is the exact opposite argument that we are trying to make. That would be particularly true if the parents involved were not parents, were not from the community, were not even from the state, but were being shipped in just in order to stir up trouble, make news, and create division and controversy. Greta heather sec. Giannoulias that is 100 correct. Let me ask and send that article by a very good reporter named amanda who covers rhode island for the boston globe we made a matter of record. It is quite a comprehensive piece of coverage about the way in which this movement has appeared in rhode island to make its points. Thank you very much. Without objection. Senator grassley. Sen. Grassley mr. Speaker, i am going to submit questions for answers and give my use my time to make a few points on this subject. First and foremost, the notion that this is a book ban is misleading and not truthful. This has nothing to do with restricting books to the general public. These books can still be purchased through various retailers if parents want their children to have access to these materials. The issue is protecting parental rights and their ability to raise their children. As a father of five, i can confidently say no one knows what is best for a child more than their own parents. As such, i believe the first principle in education is that parents have a fundamental right and responsibility to guide their childrens up bringing. This means parents ought to have the greatest say in determining what is best for their children. The constitution gives this function to the states. Decisions on education need to be made at the state local levels. These levels of education are closest and most accessible to the parents and children directly affected. States and School Districts are best equipped to craft education policies according to the unique needs of the students. Further, moms and dads can more easily advocate for their childrens needs in the classroom or even voice concerns to teachers, school officials, and that is closest to home. And if needed, they can reach out to their local and state elected officials to pursue broader educational policy changes much more easily than coming to washington. In fact, this is something i regularly tell parents. Parents are their childrens best advocate. Our children and their future thrive when state and local communities have this freedom to respond to the unique needs of families they serve. However, when this principle is violated, the results are not to the benefit of children. For example, we saw this after the passage of no child left behind. This law was enacted with the best of intentions but showed just how challenging it is for one approach to successfully help millions of students attending schools and thousands of classrooms across the country. I have always been a critic of one size fits all government. Those concerns ring especially true in education. Every child is unique. When we implement washington knows best policy, like no child left behind, the children suffer the most and the teachers could not teach according to the way they want to. That is why Congress Passed the every Student Succeeds act, to restore local decisionmaking and better serve the parents and educators. Regarding classroom content sent by federal legislators or distant of washington would take decisionmaking away from the parents who know how to raise their kids. Throughout my 99 county tours of iowa this year, moms and dads shared their experiences and concerns about books and materials that have been presented in iowa schools. They have expressed reasonable concern about young, impressionable minds to explicit and graphic materials and content in some classrooms and School Libraries. So common sense knows best. Unsurprisingly, we have seen every state and School District we have seen various state and School Districts respond to parents by enacting policies aimed at protecting children. Parents in conjunction with state and local officials must determine what is age appropriate for kids to ensure they are nurtured as they grow up. I will continue to support efforts preserving the rights for parents to determine their kids education and give state and local districts the flexibility to shape policies for the communities they serve. Thank you. Sen. Durbin thank you, senator grassley. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Nobody is talking about interfering with the right of a parent to determine what kind of material his or her child should have access to. The issue is the ability of a group of people, not even parents, but a group of people or individuals who are able to go into a School District, a school board in an effort to ban certain books. That is really the issue. By any definition, i would consider that effort to be an effort on book banning. In fact, there states that have already enacted legislation that makes it easy for anybody to go in and list a book as inappropriate, and therefore removed until it goes through some sort of review process. Specifically talking about florida as an example. Professor knox, you have done some research on why there is this effort to ban books. Can you tell me what sorts of books usually get on these banned book lists . Prof. Knox yeah. I would say thank you for the question. The books that usually show up on banned books lists are books that we consider to be diverse. These are basically books about anybody who is not white, heterosexual, male, cis, books that are about lgbtqia people, people of color. These sorts of books are books that we see on the banned books list. I do want to address the idea of banning books. Really, what we often say is these books are not banned but they are challenged. So like bidens border crisis, banned books week has a nice alliterative ring to it, but in fact, we talk much more about challenging books. It is removing books from access to its intended audience. That includes both age appropriateness but also, who did the author intend this book to be read by . That is an important part of thinking about what we call Collection Development in libraries. We consider all sorts of issues when books are put in a collection. Not just issues of, do we agree with what is being put on the collection . But also how do we show many different viewpoints and ideas . When we look at the diverse books sorry to interrupt you, but i do understand that the target of a lot of these kinds of lists are books that depict diverse lifestyles. For example, one of the books that is being fought or challenged in iowa is a book about a child who does not see themselves as a girl or boy, but something in between. This child dreams of leaving the island. The native hawaiians have traditionally recognized the existence of a third gender and this book explores this in many parts of other hawaiian culture. Yet this book is potentially banned from a School District in iowa, books that deal with gender identity for younger grades. Do you think that this book should be removed from School Libraries . Thank you, senator. I personally do not, which goes against the fundamental nature of our legislation which is to allow librarians to make that decision. My guess is that they would determine this book belongs in our libraries. The point i also wanted to make is, especially in regard to hula warrior, the goal of literature is to reflect back to the reader either the struggles that the reader is facing or to provide insight into struggles that the reader has never had to imagine. Books are a safe place for people who are struggling, who need help. And i would disagree with one of the opponents today. Sorry. I do not even need the answer from dr. Cox, but i have another question for you. Is there any evidence that says that exposure to certain kind of books leads to harm to a community . Does exposure to an lgbtq book somehow cause harm to the reader . Is there any evidence to that effect . Zero. No, there is not. What i mentioned before is that books can be windows to learn about other people. So it might be that you have a friend who is thinking about their own gender identity and you want to know more. And reading a book like that one will help you understand what your friend is going through. Mr. Chairman, i should think that there is more harm to a young person who thinks that he or she can be shot to death in a school then being exposed to certain kinds of subjects in books. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator. Senator lee . Sen. Lee i am going to be showing a video clip in just a second but i want to be clear. I think nearly every american could agree that parents have some legitimate interest in what their child reads or is taught, or otherwise exposed to. I think it is very difficult for anyone to disagree with that. That being the case, i think we need to proceed with this conversation with that backdrop and that understanding. Im going to play a video clip right now. The video clip is from Deborah Caldwell stone. She is the Legal Counsel for the American Library association. Here is what she has to say on some of these topics. These topics that deal not with book banning, because no one here has banned any book. You can still get these books anywhere you want them. The question is not whether we should ban them. The question is whether they should be included in the curriculum or School Library. There are a finite number of books you can put in there. The question is which books should be included and which should not. Lets hear with what miss Deborah Caldwellstone has to say. [video clip] ultimately, we found the thing that needs to happen most, and it needs to happen before these bills are introduced, is sustain messaging that reframes this issue that takes it away from the idea that these are inappropriate for minors or sexually inappropriate for minors. And promote diverse materials and programming about inclusion, fairness, representation, everybodys right as they themselves and their families are reflected in the books in the Public Library [end video clip] sen. Lee i think what we saw right now is someone saying the quiet part out loud. Acknowledging what the goal is. There is a goal here and the goal is to sexualize children. Provide minors with sexually explicit material and then hide this content from the parent. Hide it by changing the messaging. Avoiding the heat by saying, no, these are not the droids you are looking for. This is not about sexually explicit content. This is about equality, this is about justice, this is about what is right and wrong. This has nothing to do with that. Of course that is what someone would do if they were grooming your child, if they were trying to sexualize your child. You see, there has been something that has happened in the last few years. During covid, a lot of kids had Online School and parents were able to observe in the classroom in ways that they have not been in the past. Observe what was being taught, how it was being taught which awakened something significant among parents throughout america. That is what you got, groups of parents standing up in places across the country. Utah parents united, ms. Neelys group, parents depending education. They are providing parents with the tools they need and the information that they desire about how best to protect their kids from inappropriate things that they may be being taught or may be being given at the school where they spend most of the best hours of most days of the week throughout the school year every year. One of the explicit excerpts read by mr. Eden just a few minutes ago presented to this committee is from all boys are not blue. A book available without restriction in at least one utah junior high school. Attended by children ages 1315 and at least five utah high schools. In three utah high schools, the book was available to children over 16. Remember, from what was shared with us from mr. Eden, this book has some really graphic, sexually explicit stuff. This is pornographic. This is obscene. Certainly not appropriate for children and it is, no matter what else you think about it, it is something that is sexual in nature. I really do think very few, if any, american could really disagree with the statement the parents have an interest in what their children are taught when it comes to sex. The moment that parents take reasonable steps to protect their children and lawmakers honor those efforts to protect the children from exposure, suddenly we have a problem. And the last, Vice President harris cried book ban, even though all of these books are Still Available. You can still buy them, all of them on amazon. All over the place. You can buy when harry became sally on amazon. This is not a ban. This is about schools deciding what is appropriate for School Children. And sexually explicit, pornographic material is not appropriate and many parents are legitimately concerned about that. I am concerned about this in a variety of respects. I would just like to ask a question. Mr. Eden, is placing commonsense aid restrictions on pornographic content or removing sexually explicit books from School Curriculum and School Libraries, is that book banning or is that carrying ramifications for what we would talk about in terms of the First Amendment . Mr. Eden no, sir. Sen. Lee why is that not book banning . Mr. Eden no student is actually blocked from acquiring the book in a broader sense. Sen. Lee if you are providing content to a child that you have spoken to by you, by the school, if that would constitute in some jurisdiction, in some circumstances, a crime, you got a problem. The School Districts are acting in response to parental concerns. They should be removing these. Shame on them if they dont and shame on those who want to groom children sexually. Thank you. Sen. Durbin senator barker . Sen. Booker thank you, mr. Chairman. I would love to pick up exactly where my friend left off by reaffirming the agreement the bipartisan agreement. There is no one in this community that believes that children should have access to materials that are inappropriate for their age. There is no one that believes that children should have access to inappropriate, pornographic materials. This, to me, is about something deeper that is going on in the American Culture right now that is really troubling. That is why i want to pick up where he talked about what is going on in our schools. I actually agree with Ranking Member graham that i do not see much that congress can do. We will make no laws addressing this. I do think it is important we hold a Committee Like this to talk to these larger issues. We have a country right now that is based in the ideals of a commitment to one another. We were not founded on sameness, on same religion, same ethnicity. We were founded on big principles of democratic ideals in a diverse democracy. It is so necessary that we know each other, that we see each other, that we understand each other. That is what makes us stronger. And in many ways, our schools become areas, especially the ideals of Public Schools, where Diverse People come for an education. I am suspect of these books being taken out of libraries and schools because i started seeing books that had been there not just for years but for decades, literally generations, 25, 30, 40yearold books on shelves suddenly being taken off. Stunned that there were books that were important to me when i was growing up. My parents in 1969 had to fight a court case, had to go the legal fights to get into the town i grew up in. We were the first black family to ever move in. We had to get a white couple to pose as them to buy the home and move into the community. As my father used to call us, four raisins in a tub of sweet vanilla ice cream. For me, finding books on my Library Shelf that not only gave me affirmation but a celebration that expanded my understanding of history, they were anchors to me. Lifelines in some ways. And at a time where i was forming my selfconcept and my sense of selfworth, these were the books that became the foundation of who i am. Some of the greatest works of american literature. So when i see books by some of the greatest authors, i see Frederick Douglass being taken off the shelf, that is when i begin to worry that we are falling into this trap where we are failing to do what is necessary in a democracy which is to create public forums, educational pathways that engender empathy and understanding, that engender deep knowledge, that engender the kind of sentiment that is necessary for democracies to exist. Not a culture of contempt for one another but a deeper culture of understanding. I had conversations with my parents as i got older. You brought up two black boys in a predominantly white community. What were you thinking . We talked about a lot of the books that we read at home and read at school. She would laugh at me right now and say, of course, i couldve bought you those books if they were removed from the library but what was important for you to have them in the library was not for you. It was for your peers. For them to have access. I remember the power of reading invisible man in my High School English class and the impact it had on my peers. I had the most nurturing, positive community to grow up in but to hear what they experienced, expanding their understanding. I remember when i was a college student. Counseling on a suicide crisis hotline to lgbtq youth coming out who were considering suicide. And the power of just knowing they were not alone, that there were other people sharing that experience. A lot has been talked about today but there are deeper issues of what kind of culture are we going to promote in our country . One of compassion, empathy, understanding, or one that is going to continue this false narrative of us versus them . In the remaining seconds that i have, i actually think there is a problem when we are attacking our own history and trying to disneyify it, as opposed to celebrating what was a rough, difficult, uncomfortable, messy American History. What makes us even greater is the fact that we had a history that we had overcome. But that there is some negativity when young people are learning history that is of the that is bereft of the complications and the difficulties of race issues, gender issues, lgbtq issues. Is there a danger in giving people a sanitized version of American History . Prof. Knox absolutely there is. It is important that we know the truth of our history. There is a time when i would not have been able to sit here in this hearing to speak to this committee. We have grown from that but it is important that people know that we have a history of trauma in our country. That we have overcome, for some people, but we gain nothing by not telling our children the truth of genocide and slavery. We gain nothing if we dont tell people the truth about that history. And this is one concern i have about many of the books that are being challenged right now, is that people want to sanitize this history and say, it was all in the past, or even if it was all in the past, it is too painful to discuss. It may be painful but it is still the truth and it must be said. It is important to be citizens of this great country that we know where we came from so we can make the world better as we go forward. Sen. Booker thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Durbin thank you, senator. I might see if there is a photo. I might ask for a leave or recess for a few minutes, but the the senator of tennessee is recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to each of you for being here today and as i have listened to your testimony and your answers to questions, mr. Chairman, one of the things that has been of concern to me there two me today is that there is a parent, your concern or outrage over some of the books and things that are being banned or omitted, but there has been nothing said about what big tech platforms or major publishers are doing by banning or refusing to work with conservative authors. And that is a troubling trend that i have seen. I have heard from tennesseans about some companies who are more leftleaning or are liberal, Media Companies, and they are choosing to disallow publications. You have had something by Vice President pence, something with justice barrett, but that is not brought into this hearing. And there are two discussions that ought to be taking place because we do have very talented people that are being blocked out. Blocked out of that publishing and distributional network. So that is of concern to me. Miss neily, in your testimony, you did talk a little bit about the agree just attempts the left has made silence anyone that does not agree with them to remove publishing deals, to disallow distribution on platforms. So i want to give you the opportunity to talk a little bit more about that and the effect that that has. Ms. Neily parents are being intimidated, challenged, and canceled for speaking up. And i think from the big tech platforms, what also concerns me is the state action that is being taken. As much as we talk about the districts that might be discussing what a book can or cannot be in a School District, i think its also worth discussing the local control, the issue that mr. Giannoulias mentioned, removing control from families. In montgomery county, maryland and dearborn, michigan, there have been countless muslim families that have spoken up because they want the right to opt their children out of sexually explicit lesson plans. They are being denied that opportunity. They are being forced to have their children read books that are graphic, sexual. These are books that are not only relevant to the curriculum but that do not core with their family values. Those decisions are being taken away by localities. This is something that parents are concerned with. So to conflate that issue, that i do not want my child to be forced to read something with a book that is being about nazi germany, we hear a lot about in tennessee. I think we are very fortunate to have some really wonderful, dedicated teachers who have worked with parents and have allowed parents to be involved. I think it is important that parents have the ability to participate and to have that say. Tell me what you are hearing from parents when it comes to directing the childrens education and what they are hearing. You have spoken about a couple of things. What are they hearing when it comes to blocking some of this sexually explicit or pornographic material . Ms. Neily one problem they have is getting access to know what their child is learning at all. Parents are being forced on a regular basis to file public records requests. And they are being charged hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. Recently from fairfax county, virginia, i received an estimate of 35,000 to gain access to materials. That is appalling. It is meant to discourage and chill Parent Involvement and engagement of these issues. It is meant to tell families go away, you were not welcome here. The experts know what they are doing. We saw the Democratic Party of michigan put a Facebook Post up saying the purpose of the visit of education is to teach children what Society Needs them to know. What Society Needs them to know. That is an insult, a slap in the face to the families, and that is something that families will continue to fight against. Thank you. Sen. Durbin senator holly . Sen. Hawley thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses for being here. I think it is safe to say that all of you are here today because you are opposed to government censorship. Is that right . Ok, we can agree on that much. Book banning is a form of government censorship. That broadly speaking correct . Professor knox, you are an expert on this. Let me ask you. Book banning is a problem under the First Amendment because it is a government telling private individuals, authors what they can and cannot write. Telling the public what they can and cannot read. Is that broadly speaking correct . Prof. Knox yes, that is correct. Sen. Hawley what if the books were digital only . Could the government ban them then . No hard copies. No physical copies, just digital books. Could the government engage in book banning on the First Amendment . Prof. Knox no. That is about a format of the particular book. That really does not matter when it comes to whether or not the government is banning a book. Sen. Hawley what if the government made a list of authors whose books it wanted banned and also went to all of the publishing houses in america, the government did, and said do not publish the books by any of these authors or we will punish you. Is that a problem in the First Amendment . Prof. Knox my hope is that the government would not be involved in the decisions of a private company. Sen. Hawley good. I would hope so too. But apparently, that is not the case in the United States of America Today under this administration. Because the hypotheticals i have just given you are not hypotheticals at all. They have happened. And we know that they are happening. The fifth Circuit Court of appeals in a case, missouri v. Biden, i am sure you are all familiar with this. Its going to go down as a landmark case in the worst possible way. What the court of appeals found is that the white house, not just the federal government, but the white house actively coerced every major social media platform in america, let me say that again. Every major social media platform in america to ban speech that the white house did not like. What are we talking about here . We are talking about speech on the covid19 pandemic, speech on the 2022 congressional elections. Speech related to mask mandates, speech related to vaccines. What did the white house do . Over a period of years, they met with, on a regular basis, the leaders of social Media Companies and demanded that the speech they did not like be taken down. They further demanded that the same social Media Companies amplify the white houses speech. Amazing. So take down all of this speech that we do not like, amplify our own speech. Unbelievable. What kind of speech are we talking about . For example, not just Public Officials but parents. Heres an example. For my state in the state of missouri, i am reading it from the opinion here. One parent who posted on nextdoor. Com posted an online petition to encourage his school to remain mask optional found that his posts were removed without notifying him. His friends never saw them. Another parent in the same School District who objected to mask mandates for School Children responded to on twitter and received a warning from twitter that his account would be banned if he did not delete the tweets criticizing dr. Faucis approach to mask mandates. These objections, this censorship was taken at the direct behest of the federal government, of the Biden Administration. Professor knox, is this a violation of the First Amendment . Prof. Knox only a judge can make that determination. Sen. Hawley and the judge has. I am glad you said that. Multiple judges. District court, Federal District court said there was a direct First Amendment violation. Court of appeals, unanimously, threejudge panel unanimously said direct First Amendment violation. I cannot think of another time in American History when the president of the United States, and i say that advisedly, because the record reflects the white house officials were sending emails and communications to these companies saying that the president himself wanted the censorship. Youve got the government doing exactly what professor knox said is not permitted on the First Amendment, directly coercing the speech of private parties. Not just one or two authors but parents all across the country. Unprecedented in the history of this nation. So i am glad we are having this hearing today. I hope we will have more to expose the censorship happening at the highest levels of our government. Mr. Chairman, i would ask that this opinion, this judgment by the fifth circuit, be entered into the record in full. Sen. Durbin without objection. Sen. Hawley i will leave it there. I know there are others who want to ask questions. I just want to say that this censorship is unamerican, unconstitutional, and i hope it will go down as a sad chapter in American History that we can close here and now. Thank you. Sen. Durbin senator kennedy . Sen. Kennedy thank you, mr. Chairman. I confess i am a little confused. I appreciate the argument or discussion that we have been having but for me, it is a little too conceptual. Or i dont know, metaphysical or theological or whatever you want to call it. I want to try to understand what you are asking us to do. Lets take two books that have been much discussed. The first one is called all boys are not blue. I will quote from it. I put some lube on and got him on his knees. And i began to slide into him from behind. I pulled out of him and kissed him while he masturbated. He asked me to turn over while he slipped a condom on himself. This was my ass and i was struggling to imagine someone inside me. He got on top and slowly inserted himself into me. It was the worst pain i think i have ever felt in my life. Eventually, i felt a mix of pleasure with the pain. All boys are not blue. The second is another much discussed book. Im sure you are familiar with it. It is called gender queer. Let me read an excerpt from that. I got a new strap on harness today. I cannot wait to put it on you. It will fit my favorite dildo perfectly. You are going to look so hot. I am going to give you the blowjob of your life, and then i want you inside of me. Now, mr. Secretary, what are you asking us to do . Are you suggesting that only librarians should decide whether the two books that i just referenced should be available to kids . Is that what youre saying . Greta sec. Giannoulias no. Sen. Kennedy ok, tell me what you are saying. Do not give me a speech. Tell me what you are asking me to do. Sec. Giannoulias with all due respect, the words you spoke are disturbing, especially coming out of your mouth, are very disturbing. I will also tell you that we are not advocating for kids to report sen. Kennedy what are you advocating for . Sec. Giannoulias we are advocating for parents, random parents not to have the ability under keeping kids safe to try to challenge the worldview of every single manner on these issues. Sen. Kennedy we are getting conceptual again. I want to know what you are recommending. It sounds to me like what some of you are saying, librarians should decide who gets to see that book. Sec. Giannoulias i am saying when individual parents are allowed to make a decision of where that line is in to kill a mockingbird, should that book be pulled from our i think you want to think about it a little bit more before you come here. Sen. Kennedy let me skip you for a second. Cameron. Tell me what you are proposing. Mx. Samuels senator, your definition of sexual is synonymous with lgbtq identity. Sen. Kennedy im not asking you that. Im asking you to tell me, you read those two excerpts . I am asking whether parents can have any say and whether minors can read those books. Is that what you are saying . Mx. Samuels gender queer has never been in my School Library, so its never been banned. Sen. Kennedy should it be just up to the library or should parents have a say . Do you take a vote or who takes the vote . Mx. Samuels book communities committees in the community and my School District. Sen. Kennedy you want a committee . Im asking you, how do we decide whether the two books that i just referenced should be available in the library . What would you if you were running things, what would you do . All boys arent blue, the scene you mentioned is about sexual abuse. I know what its about. What would you do in terms of making the books available . Would you say anybody can see them or they have to be in the special session . I understand that, but none of you want to answer my question. You come here and you say censorship is bad, and of course its bad, but the obvious response is ok, you heard the books were talking about. We are not talking about catcher in the rye. So tell me what you want. Who gets to decide . And all ive heard is the librarians. And parents have nothing to do with it, and if thats your response, what planet did you just parachute in from, or what country, more appropriately . This is not china. Parents, senator, with all due respect, parents absolutely have a say. My parents were immigrants, came to this country. We never checked out books without our parents seeing what books we were reading. Sen. Kennedy mr. Secretary, i understand this is good for your politics back home. Its got nothing to do with my politics. [indiscernible] it has everything to do with your politics, but you came here with a problem and im trying to understand the solution, and you dont have one other than to tell us that we dont agree with you. Well be on the wrong side of history. Sec. Giannoulias we solved the problem in illinois. We fixed it. Sen. Kennedy theres others you could work on. Im out of time. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sec. Giannoulias to help other states make the decisions. Sen. Durbin at this point, there have been no senators here who have not been recognized. I appreciate our witnesses appearing before the committee today and i know my colleagues on the Committee Want children to have access to books that are appropriate for their age. There are some serious disagreements, however, about what content is objectionable. It is inevitable and healthy for a democracy. We need to Work Together as a country to try to create clear standards for access to books so that no one individual can cause a book to be banned for an entire community. Im proud of my home state, secretary giannoulias, for leading the effort to push back against book bans. I hope other states will follow your example. Libraries and the treasured books within them are just too important to allow this rising censorship to continue any longer. Lets come together to protect the freedom to read, and learn, and stand up against book banning wherever it occurs. The record for todays hearing will remain open for one week. The hearing is adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org]