Mr. Kennedy i dont know that it would get completely used up it depends upon it depends upon the amount of moisture in a particular inflator and the amount of desiccant. Many of our later generation inflators do contain desiccant along with Ammonium Nitrate. We have not seen this issue with those inflator is in the field. So we know that is a factor that contributes to the life of the inflator. Mr. Burgess does takata manufacture any airbag used in any make or model vehicle that uses sodium im sorry, Ammonium Nitrate . Mr. Kennedy yes. All of these inflators that are involved in these issues we are talking about how Ammonium Nitrate without desiccant. Mr. Burgess are you still manufacturing Ammonium Nitrate without . Mr. Kennedy the few platforms we are not transitioned out of yet but we are working to transition as quickly as possible. Mr. Burgess im sorry. You go out and buy a brandnew car and it could have one of these instruments in it . Mr. Kennedy it could have an Ammonium Nitrate based inflator that does not have it. Thats correct. Mr. Burgess is there any obligation to warn the consumer that they are buying something that may be problematic . Mr. Kennedy the recalls that are in process at this time are for certain time frames, certain vehicles, certain technologies. Those would not be involved in a brandnew vehicle at this time. That is why we are continuing as part of the Consent Order to test outside of the boundaries of what is involved in the recall to really understand what the total scope is. Mr. Burgess im sorry youre not providing me much reassurance with that answer let me ask you this. You say that by september you will be up to a million units. Mr. Kennedy and we will continue to go up after that. Mr. Burgess but under just simple math, 34 million vehicles. I mean, almost three years timeframe. Mr. Kennedy it is roughly the exact number is in the dir. But the additional is about 16 or 17. I do not mean to minimize it. It is obviously a huge number whichever way you look at it. Previously there had been 18 million that had already been under the call. We have supplied over 4 million already since january of last year and now we are up to 750,000 per month going to 1 million per a million per month. I dont mean to interrupt but my time is up. Are any of the replacement modules you are reinstalling in vehicles that are brought in to have their airbag system changed out, are any of those Ammonium Nitrate propellants . Mr. Kennedy some of them are. On the driver side we are completely transitioning out and we will be using either a desiccated inflator how we will be using a competitor inflator. Thank you. My time is expired. I want to follow up on the chairmans questions. You have talked about the possible reasons, including Ammonium Nitrate perhaps being part of the cost. You are saying if i understand you correctly that you are providing replacement bags that have Ammonium Nitrate without a desiccant. A desiccant. Yes, maam. Thats correct. I dont understand that. What is under recall right now . Certain model years, certain designs on certain vehicles. But why . Why . Why is Ammonium Nitrates why would you and why would i buy why would you put in a car and why would i buy a car that has a potentially dangerous airbag . Im not understanding. We are working to move away from them as quickly as possible. In a vehicle it is not as easy as just changing the color of the car or changing a bold. Your not talking about replacements. Yes. So the replacement could be as dangerous as the current. Why would you even replace it . As i said, without exactly understanding the root cause and continuing to test outside of the bounds of what we have already recalled were trying to determine. Were trying to understand exactly the factors that lead to this, this, and should we do Something Different than what were doing right now . We know you heard doctor rose kind say it takes seven have to 12 years. Putting in a brandnew part is a huge improvement in safety. As we continue to test if it shows that we need to take additional actions we will take additional actions. So, does the recall affects cars that are over ten ten years old . Some of them. I think the original recalls these new ones, i would have to look at the dir and see because of that overlap that i talked about. Some of them go back to as early as i think 2,000, 2,001. The 1st ones involved. My understanding is that you are doing that on older cars but you are not required to do so. I wanted to ask you if takata has taken a position on the Vehicle Safety improvement act hr 1181. No, we have not publicly. I am aware of the bill but not the particulars in the bill. We certainly we certainly support any effort that would help improve the return rate on recalls. So let me give you some of the items in the bill and see if you would support that. Hr 1181 would increase the quantity and quality of information shared by auto manufacturers with nets a, netzer, the public command congress specifically requiring manufacturers to include in there quarterly submissions Additional Information on fatal incidents, possible because by a defect and assess why the answer may have occurred and it removes removes the limitation on the number of model years that should be reporteds. Is this something that sounds supportable to you . Well, well, it is a little disingenuous because it is not a requirement for a company. It would seem like that would be a good idea in order to increase visibility on issues. Do you think it would be a good idea to not limited ten years the number of recalls the part of the required . I did not know that there was a limit. Some of these vehicles at 15 years old. Would you think it is a good idea to have new eminent Hazard Authority to expedite recalls . Again, that is a difficult one for a supplier to answer. But i think anything that improves the safety on the road is certainly a step in the right direction. Do you think theres any reason to support regional recall as opposed to national . Obviously our started off as a regional. And the reason a couple of reasons, number one because that is what the science and data showed where the issues were command there will be cases where i think that is probably correct. People dont drive their cars other places. That is true, but the other thing i was going to say, it helps with getting parts into the Priority Areas as quickly as possible which is part of the core dir that we came to agreement on in the last couple of weeks. Can i work with you as well obviously primarily with the members but talk to you about legislation . Absolutely. Thank you. I yield. The chair thanks the gentle lady in recognizes the gentle lady from tennessee. Five minutes questions. Thank you. Im going to stay right with you. [inaudible conversations] i was listening to your statement and i think i must have missed something because you talked about manufacturing stopping the manufacturers. You never mentioned the Ammonium Nitrate. You kind of lost left the propellant out of the mix in that addressed it with mr. Burgess. This is from an explosives expert. He said the following about Ammonium Nitrate. It should not be used in airbags but it is cheap, unbelievably cheap. Do you agree with that statement . Unbelievably cheap or that it should not be used . I would not say its unbelievably cheap. I cheap. I would say its competitive with some of the propellant formulations. Which we use is a blanket statement this is it should not be used as. I dont agree with that. We had issues. Many have performed well. Are you an explosives expert . No. All right. Lets go to what ms. Czajkowski was saying. You are still using this. Isnt it true that Ammonium Nitrate is a a dangerous substance to be used in airbag inflated . No. I dont believe its a dangerous substance to be used. You do not. We use stabilized Ammonium Nitrate. Most of the issues are it is losing its base stabilization. Isnt it true that Ammonium Nitrate is cheaper than other compounds . Probably. At the time when we started the use Ammonium Nitrate the competing material, those two are very similar in cost. There is not a huge difference. You are an engineer. Isnt it true that your own engineers warned you about using Ammonium Nitrate . Well, from some of the newspaper articles i read i assume your frying to mr. Lillys comments. Mr. Benton and mr. Lilly. I can tell you, every development program, every product that any supplier makes there is always a spirited debate about the right components, the right design. And there are tradeoffs. The previous materials we use extremely toxic the unwanted effect that when deployed is a did not burn cleanly and there was a lot of effluents put into the vehicle and a lot of people and respiratory issues were bothered. Every propellant, every design, there is always a spirited debate and you can probably find people. I want to move on. Given given that you are recalling cars that may have already been repaired, have there been field incidents reported . Have you had any occurrences not that im aware ofs. All of the Replacement Parts have performed 100 percent satisfactorily . Well, what i said was im not aware. Would you double check that and get back to us and let us no . Yes. What does takata believe we know from testing today that we did not know your ago. We know a lot, and not just from our testing. I heard some of the dillman referred to the report that was released. We brought doctor no its into our facility in february. We bought a team. What kind of changes are you making . As i said we do have later designs. The alternate propellants. Continuing around does a. You will see our production go down. I yield back. The gentle lady yields back. The chair recognizes the german from massachusetts for five minutes for questions. Thank you. Glad to come back. You expect the use would decrease . It certainly got a Bad Reputation through all of this. As i said command it is a contributing factor that everyone believes is involved in this issue. Signify or guarantee that as long as it is used the products are safe . Can you guarantee that the products are safe . We believe properly manufactured and designed Ammonium Nitrate can be done properly. So you indicate in your written testimony that in certain circumstances these conditions can result in an alteration and propellant wafers in the inflators that could lead to overaggressive combustion. Your statement is if it is properly manufactured and under the right circumstances those conditions would not exist. We have seen those in very rare cases. That goes back to the root cause discussion we were having earlier. We we do not have the definitive root cause. We know more than we did based on the testing that we have done and all the testing that are outside experts of the. The testing you have done has indicated that the Ammonium Nitrate on the conditions of humidity and heat over time to lead the malfunction. Exactly. And exactly. And that you are going to five year plans are to phase out the use of Ammonium Nitrates and products. We have been facing them down and phasing way propellants, but a lot of thems poor with desiccant. We had gone from non desiccated to desiccated. And is a similar . Yes. Why not adopted earlier . We made investments in order to process. We were having good success. It was competitive. It had a number of these other advantages to it. It was not something that until recent issues really give us a reason to rethink. A significant disadvantage of late. Am sorry. Fairly significant disadvantages of late. Yes. s i think you try to touch on this. In an article in the New York Times yesterday indicated that the headline says takata says it will no longer make side inflator linked to airbag deflects. What . It will no longer make side inflator linked to airbag defect. Will not be using Ammonium Nitrate. Another piece another newspaper saying is still would be manufactured in the peace and writers that said it was not going to be. Can you clarify for me, is it still being used . Should people what should people do . Thank you mr. Chairman. I was at the hearing in december, i was the vice chair then. I quote from the transcript, directly from the transcript of the december hearing had asked her colleague about this matter and had stated , the current view based upon reliable information does not support a nation my determinations of safety defects in all vehicles equipped. This is not the view of the agency of the federal government. So you are dramatically and diametrically in opposition to the view. Is that accurate . And then this was discussed with a colleague. There was a translation problem. Then answer the question and said yes. That that is our statement. Then i went on the same conclusion that we will be asking, november 26 there was a National Record amended. Of course that was not the view of takata. What has changed between then and now . Much. Much. One additional death. The one additional death. That certainly has changed. And taxes. That was also mentioned. A vehicle that have been recalled four years ago. But not to the owner. That is an important factor for the American People to know. A a very important factor. I agree. To your original question of what changed, at that time we had i think 8,000 tests done. Now we have 50,000. We have seen patterns emerge in some of the testing and data that we have accumulated. That has led us and all of the other testing and analysis that has been done by outside experts. We hired experts. You have seen the fraunhofer report. Moving on, the issue of ruptures was 1st known in 2,004. The 1st six this occurred in 2,009. So this has been ongoing problem of great significance. In the last six months how much have you been find . How much in total have you been find . I believe am asking for your answer i believe the tolls up to about 1. 2 million. Of you paid that . To my knowledge no. As part of the discussion and negotiation. They have agreed to suspended as part of the Consent Order, but they have reserve the right to incur further penalties as they see fit. Now, based upon your testimony to the chairman and Ranking Member is it possible that the placement airbags will continue to have Ammonium Nitrate in the . Yes. Some of them will. And you are confident that they will be safe for some time . We feel that they are safe. That is why as part of the Consent Order we are continuing to test outside of the scope of the recall and continuing to test to make sure that the remedy parts are safe. Should those who are having an airbag replaced ask whether or not the new airbag will contain Ammonium Nitrate . Im not really sure how to answer that. Are there new automobiles and the line. Yes. Thank you. You indicate that the rate of compliance drops dramatically. It is 15 percent for older vehicles . Explain exactly the years involved . I dont know that i mentioned exactly the numbers. You are exactly right. The trend is that further out the recall completely is lower. Second and 3rd owners. Difficult to find. Manufacturers are doing what they can. Thank you. In conclusion i am concerned about those vehicles that are purchased not new. People who might not be aware necessarily. This is a great concern and i want to work with you and others to make sure all americans are protected. The chair thanks the gentleman. Thank you and our panelists. The day before the subcommittee hearing in December Takata sent a letter with the rejected a national recall. The contention that it was not required by law. Not a manufacturer. Mr. Kennedy, this question was asked in december, but i want to hear from you now. Do you agree with that statement . It sounds like a lot of legal. I am certainly not a lawyer. It is now legal. It is very simple. It is your contention that you are not required by law to make a good faith determination. Conduct a recall because it is not a manufacturer of motor vehicles. I really dont know the answer. Very well. It is my understanding that takata have submitted to jurisdiction. I believe that would probably be the proper term. We have come to an agreement. Thats correct. Yes. Do you know do you now agree takata is subject to the jurisdiction at least as to laws and regulations related to safety related defects . Again, it is an area of your asking me a lot question that i am not really properly qualified answer. I can look into it and get back with you. We as its authority if thats the question your asking. We have worked hard to come to the agreement. Let me ask you, do you now agree to cut takata is required to decide in good faith . We clearly did say that a defect may arise. Is the kind of thing for placement airbags . Im not sure what you mean. Were selling them. Airbags that now need to be replaced. Correct. Are you paying for them. We are working with our automaker customers to discuss financial responsibility. What is that mean . That we are having discussions with each one of the automakers. Your not paying for. I wouldnt say were paying 100 for everything with every automaker. The negotiating what you will him will pay. Which is a normal course of business. Yes. A New York Times article stated takata said automakers share the blame for this massive recall because testing specifications prescribed by the Vehicle Manufacturers failed to uncover faults. That was one conclusion. Is that correct . We believe so. Can you explain. Whenever a supplier provides a product there is a specification your required to meet, a set of tests you have to run command we do that. We do that with every new product and they sign off. These products went through the process. The specifications out there did not capture the issues that were seeing in the field today. The manufacturer failed to uncover the fall. The specifications that we tested two and provided parts two did not encompass the scope of the problem. You are saying that they failed to uncover the fault. Maybe not going to quibble about the wording. You are not taking any responsibility. Thats not what i said. Youre saying they should blame because they shouldve uncover the fault. What im saying is in the Automotive Industry products are developed to be specifications. Typically if you meet the specification you have provided a part that is acceptable. Thank you. I yield back. Trying to provide an answer for you as well. I appreciate that. I say this not as a lawyer engineer but the specs that are let out when a contract is negotiated the relates to Performance Specifications and not to the fundamental notion that the product should be safe. This is about the form of the deployment in terms of which car we will be appropriately fitted. There is an understanding that the supplier we will provide a product that complies. Part of that is making sure the controlled explosion is a controlled explosion. Thank you. The gentle lady yields back. You are recognized for five minutes for questions. Thank you very much. I guess i we will direct will direct this to you as well. Understanding, another root cause, manufactured to specification. In viewership to that but it fell within that specification is in engineering issue so it seems like you dont know exactly but talking about if you dont know the root cause of how do you know, the Replacement Parts that they bring in for the recall will not fail . What is the assurance of that . That is a very good question. Many of the Replacement Parts are different designs. Pete. And about 50 of but we ship tour with our competitors inflator said do not use Ammonium Nitrate that will go up to 70 in the next month. But you have Replacement Parts now . But you will bring in the car for a recall how do you know, . Is why the Consent Order is written that way to require that we continue to test their brevity parts and outside the scope of the recall to make that judgment but you do that before the first one . We did. It passed the test spec there could be manufacturing defect . Know these Replacement Parts will not have been . We have confidence the process has changed but were using alternate designs but there is a percentage of them that is why that Consent Order is written the way it is with that analysis. Earlier you said 700,000 replacement kits into ship daily . With multiple trucks back every day from the field. Had to prioritize . Up to this point we have been able to keep up with demand for Replacement Parts. There are a couple that are on back order and those are completed with the expansion with the letters start to go out for consumers but that is why we add additional capacity with those coming in and we have additional mines going to the competitors so we are continuing to read about rand up and also maintain production. Will you talk about the replacement part. Are looking at a at the efficacy as part of the investigation. To know that complexity is enormous not just the 34 units in the u. S. It is global issues as well so production allocation is also usually six to begin to issues that is why in this instance to assert its core nation and there is no other way that guarantees fairness as the expeditious response as possible. I would add that manufacturers are doing what they need to do to take care of their customers knowing what they know now. When i worked in manufacturing there issues of our product but to find a the recall to recreate the problem we are all anxious to get to that point. That is the most difficult part as anyone familiar is unacceptable to us but in that analysis the failure rate is so low to turn on and turn off we have not been able to do that then read just one to turn it off to get to the bottom of it. The chair recognizes the gentleman from new jersey. We have been hearing conflicting reports for mr. Kennedy if the Replacement Parts are different than the inflator is some talk about a change in the chemical composition and the shape of the propellant and at the december hearing they talked about improvements made to the manufacturing process in recent years that said it was the same. Is there any difference between the replacement players in the original deflective to slaters . That was richly different on the drivers side in the drivers side as the most issues on the passengers side right now there are a percentage that is the design and later but is manufactured at of later time. With that defect information takata code that continues to have a small number of inflator is. It tends to seize for those so when does it intend those as replacements . We have a of a couple of car makers that have not qualified the inflator yet. They have been working very hard to do that with us and our competitors. The phase for aha to get that remedy part that i design. But what weld takata used to replace . It depends on the vehicle competitors insulators on the drivers side from trw and also a later generation inflator that has desiccant then it is robust. Are we to assume that is stops the production of these of leaders . The back swing propellant was one of the factors that was called out with the testing and analysis with outside experts in order to eliminate that factor completely that we dont make a for production and the longer. That could be a problem. The city will replace the insulators on for stages you mentioned those previously . Will the previous that are replaced from December December 2014 have them replaced again . Give it to anybody that had a the inflator replace would have to have replaced again. Yes. That is correct. Somebody who already has the replacement of realize that they have to have replaced again. How do you communicate that to the consumer . That is another great question and another part of the Consent Order in agreement that we have. We will work with nhtsa and the automakers to do a proactive safety campaign. We have been working with a professional media firm that has done these things in the past. Honda last year had initiated a Media Campaign on your cellphone if you called up google it would say to check your airbag. So were talking to honda to see what worked so we will come back to help increase that visibility for the cars that need to come back. The gentleman from houston. One thing has come through loud and clear is we still dont know about the root cause. Of bat wings and all sorts of things that bothers a. The vin number orion of the elektra had had bad defect that means that the orings would fall off the plane is hard to find because they did not know what happened they found out so i heard you say there is he to end humidity comment desiccant and propellants in propellants now it is dissidents . How many are there out there . 1 2 to check but it is a defect in. We are 95 humidity so we are ground zero. I do not know the number. To replace it with a desiccant put that into place right now. That is exactly what were doing. But with the Ammonium Nitrate . No, no, no. That is not what i am saying. That is the problem. Is a propellant why dont you put the desiccant with all propellants . We have a alternative later that is what we referred to and that is what we are doing with those of the leaders will have desiccant or from one of the of combat competitors. Who pays for it . The manufacturer, dealers, takata who pays for the recall . That is the critical point. My hunch is there is debate who will bear the cost. I will agree that the consumer will not pay. We need to take care of the customer and the supplier and the regulator to do so. My truck has a recall notice i got that to replace the oil so lerner time is spent on recalls and fixing cars. The dealers will come out whole they are reimbursed. With those franchise rules. To talk about the last victim of the airbags from texas. Buying a used car in 2004 there recall 2011 and had a crash this year few knew the car was defective . How can we track the car from the recall to the owner . She had no chance she had no idea. Is an important point. The fundamental notion of safety and shared responsibility the consumers have the peace certainly nhtsa so we all need to do a better job to trace that ownership. That is why we go through that exercise about conducting research so we have to find a way to turn the trigger. Is a great question and. As i mentioned we ought to consider looking at the point and which state voter registers for further notification with that procedure to be in place to register that used car. Fed gentleman yields back. The gentleman from florida you have five minutes. Thanks for your testimony on the panel. For those that were recalled for a second airbag replacement . To know those how many are affected. They have to bring the cars in twice i think the automakers are quantities of those vehicles. How do plan to notify the consumers as part of the Consent Order and we certainly want to do it in conjunction with the automakers said who dont want to do something that would be at odds so we have a media firm that is familiar with these types of activities if we have some ideas on paper that we will be reviewing those with nhtsa. But just give me an answer. It is a fair question and it is a difficult question. We heard from a lot of different people with the extremely complex issue. First started to see those issues we had National Recalls of a large number of parts we thought we had identified the root cause so then we started to see the sporadic issues that led to the action of last year. It has been very elusive it is very difficult to get a consistent pattern. How can you insure consumers that it will be effective knu is serve my constituents that is the case. There are later designs from competitors there are still a few that is part of the order we are testing the remedy parts to make sure they will be sufficient for the life of the of vehicle and why we are continuing to test outside of their ranges of the recalls so we tried to cover that i cannot tell you right now that everything but what we have anticipated that problem to have an agreement with nhtsa to allow us to look back and we will take action if needed. Since the first of later ruptured in 2004 it is true they tested roughly 128 airbags is that correct . I am not sure i am not familiar with that number. The belief to investigate this issue with the potential risk a. M. Threat of airbags we were able to identify what they thought was a solid root cause we have manufacturing data, test data and we could create the problem clearly there is Something Else going on. Youll save more could be done but with the automaker customers thought was sufficient to get to root cause. One last question with that Ammonium Nitrate. I dont have the answer to that question i will report back. Thank you very much. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman from oklahoma you have five minutes. I enjoy watching your show i could probably take a lesson or two from that but at the same time you can tell the frustration we are getting from the panel lady is sitting over your shoulder that bears the scars of a mistake that was made in were still not getting the answers. I understand when we fail and make a mistake. But now what . We did recall replaced with other things and still faulty . There is no excuse. O. We just want to hear you say we screwed up but but that would cause legal issues but to take blame is just that. Who is responsible for this. Who made the product . Whose name was on it . Thats why havent been moving very fast in the rehab no idea how many vehicles . Four young men . Or worse than that . That they cannot finish out their life. What is that worth to . With that was sure daughter . I have three at home. I can tell you do you have a daughter . Would you be pretty passionate to load up to save whatever it takes and what we believe how long have you been making airbags . More studies you need to have . I am not trying to be evasive but there are very smart people but there is a multifaceted issue. Bid is a great term we use political terms here all the time and we talking in circles. But were looking for ownership. It is complex. Fortunately i have survived. The other problem is a problem. You have to figure out to put a dollar amount on it. I dont know how you can. Instead the say the complexity or the make up but the competitors are finding out. Your competitors . It sounds like he will do anything but take ownership. Your competitors . I cannot imagine your to sit here to save my competitor will pay for the problem. We did that to get parts into the field faster. You have known about this since 2004. But not since this level. You identified there was the problem and you could recreated you knew there was a problem. We thought we had a root cause at that time. We did a replacement. How did you track them down . With the automakers in all. But we still dont have people notified. If they end up bin california with mad cow disease with the bar code but at least they could track it back to the farm. We cannot do that with the airbag . We can tell you exactly which one to the automakers taken to you what it is in but the issue for the most part is to get that recall rate of. We already found the problem. I disagree. If we want to find the problem you cannot convince me we could not find a solution. But who will pay for it . That is the roots of the problem. Mr. Chairman i yield back thanks for being here. And things you for answering these very important issues i asked our panel that includes bmw and toyota and honda if they might share the oleum part numbers with the automotive recycling indu safety. Express support to share part numbers but the secretary said he supports on the manufacturers to provide part numbers to recyclers and manufacturers should provide this information in the easytouse format. But with a program or bureaucracy but it appears we have an incident an incident where they agree on the approach from the large part to share this information will improve safety but are you aware of any discussions to share this information . I dont know the answer to your question. I will go back to our members on the panel and get back to you. If you guys could you may be unaware of the issue if you can follow up with my office that will be helpful as we go forward. What can your organization do to help facilitate this and to make Something Like this happen . We will have a conversation within our association and we will be put to get back to at that point. This question of getting recalls done is an important priority and we view this as a shared responsibility and we are willing to work with anybody to make this job done as quickly as possible. That is all the questions i have. We accept your yield. The chair recognizes ms. Clark. I would like to request unanimous consent to submit a written statement of the Car Rental Association and the consumers for Auto Reliability and safety into the record. I will recognize myself for one followup. I dwelt on the Ammonium Nitrate as a propellant, and this question is for i was a physician, and i remember airbag deployments with sodium azide and i remember burns and injuries from the bag, but i also recall that there were Environmental Concerns about sodium azide. There was concern about the sodium azide just eventually getting into the environment. Are there any other propellants that are being worked on . Is there a purely gas propellant . Carbon dioxide . Nitrogen . Something that wouldnt have the characteristics of Ammonium Nitrate or the toxic characteristics of sodium azide . There are a wide variety of inflators out there. You have a small igniter and the gas comes out. There are some hybrids that have gas and a little bit of a propellant that heats it up. There are alternate solid fuels out there. We can provide all kinds of information. Some are better than other applications. What is the barrier forgetting something that is less explosive and less toxic . It really goes back to some of the tradeoffs i was speaking about earlier. Some are bigger. There are those kinds of tradeoffs. We can provide any kind of information. I would appreciate you making that available to the subcommittee. There no further members with questions, thank you to all of our witnesses for their participation in the hearing. It has been a long one. Members have additional days to submit questions for the record. 10 business days. Without objection, the meeting is adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the National Captioning Institute which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] earlier this morning, we learned the latest on the data breach that led to nearly 4 million federal workers being notified that the personal data may have been compromised. This is from washington journal. Host we are joined by tom shoop. Thank you for joining us. Guest thanks for having me. Andrew talk about host talk about what was compromised. Guest it is pretty widespread. It does not entirely clear what the information was. Since it was federal personnel records, you could assume it is everything from names, Social Security numbers possibly performance ratings, job assignments come a whole range. Host how unusual was an attack like this on a federal Government Agency . Has this happened before . Guest yes, it has. This is the fourth time. It is unfortunately not as rare as we would like it to be. That is of concern. Federal officials appeared to be reasonably convinced that this is the work of chinese hackers. Apparently they appeared to be building a database of information about government employees. Host this is the fourth time it had happened recently. What is the government doing . Guest there are steps being taken to ensure security. We are now learning these systems had state of the art Detection Software installed. The problem is this was a type of attack that had it been seen before. Aces this it a specific kind of malware that had not been deployed previously. There were able to eventually detect it. Host what are the chances of Something Like this happening again . Guest since it has happened several times and the office of management has been a victim on at least two other occasions, it is happening more frequently and it appears to likely happen again. It is of some concern to people in government. They are spending more money installing more systems to try to stop these kinds of things from happening. When they think it is statesponsored, it is difficult to stay had of that kind of concerted effort. Host how are they communicating with employees about the data breach and what happened . Guest beginning next week, they will begin sending emails to the people who were affected. They say it is about 4 million people. They dont have email a dresses for all of them in their system. Some will send regular letters. Those are most likely retirees. Someone get information on what they can do and how to sign up for free credit monitoring. Host how is this attack any different from that tax we have seen in the private sector such as target and home depot . The attacks we have seen in the private sector such as target and home depot . Guest it depends on the intrusion. It did not seem to be aimed necessarily at gathering information for identity theft. It may be more likely the work of the same people. It seems to be more aimed at building a database of information of people for possible purposes of blackmail or just compiling a database of federal emails to be used for spear phishing purposes. That is spoofing some of the mill address and trying to gain access. Host what should someone who is affected do in order to protect themselves in this case and guard against future incursions . Guest be on the lookout for one of these emails. You could go to the office of management website for more on that. There are people who monitor their financial account statements and sign up for free credit reporting. See if anything has been done on their accounts. Visit the ftc website. Identitytheft. Gov. Just generally be wary of unusual activity involving your financial information. Host tom shoop, thank you for joining us. Guest great being with you. On the next washington journal voter access. And discussing a nationwide trial to test Cancer Treatment using dna sequencing. And president ial debates. Looking ahead to the 2016 president ial and Vice President ial debates. How both parties should proceed in their primary election debates. We will take your calls. On the conversation on facebook and twitter. Washington journal live at 7 a. M. Eastern on cspan. This week at the white house president obama met with the king and queen of the netherlands in the first visit to the u. S. Since assenting to the throne two years ago. The king and president obama spoke briefly to that media while meeting in the oval office. President obama it is a great honor to welcome his and her majesties King Willemalexander and queen maxima. They have been wonderful. I thank the people of the netherlands for their incredible hospitality, including during the Nuclear Security summit. We have 400 years of history between our two countries. And europe, that doesnt mean a lot, but in the u. S. , that is as old as it gets. The dutch are some of our oldest and most precious allies. That continues to this day. Had the opportunity to discuss the shared work we do through nato and making sure that the transatlantic relationship stay strong. We had discussed the continuing challenges of ukraine and the importance of making sure we are moving forward. I continue to make the solemn commitment to support the dutch in the investigation of the Malaysia Airlines tragedy and to make sure the only is the truth brought forward, but there is accountability for what took place. We discussed shared concerns in other parts of the world, including where dutch troops work alongside u. S. And Coalition Members to defeat isil. We talked about the excellent work that the United States partnered with the dutch when it comes to ebola and the work best of remains to be done establishing the kind of Health Infrastructure that is important to preventing diseases in the future. I was impressed with the outstanding work that her majesty is doing. All around the world, there is enormous potential that is often locked out because of the difficulty of access. The greater work her majesty is doing in providing loans and new mechanisms for credit will make an enormous difference particularly when it is provided equally for women. They often face greater challenges in accessing capital. And we discussed the ongoing work that we will be doing to build on the progress that has been made over the last several years. Whether it is in afghanistan or Public Health issues in europe and the need for us to maintain solidarity and uphold the principles that have been central to building a unified and peaceful europe, the netherlands has consistently been one of our allies. His majesty the king and queen to honor and meet some of the generation who helped liberate the netherlands and usher in this era of peace and prosperity is so significant. So many are at the twilight of their lives. Dear directly from such to hear directly from some people and to give that our commission is truly significant. Im grateful for that. Even more grateful for the continuing friendship with the dutch people. King willemalexander thank you for your warm words of welcome. On behalf of my wife and myself, we are happy to be here. First, i would like to express my soup at these to the people in texas and oklahoma who are suffering my sympathies to the people in texas and oklahoma who are suffering flights. It is terrible. If we can help come of course we will help. My Heartfelt Sympathies to Vice President biden while losing in losing his son. We thank the United States in liberating our country and taking away the nazi oppression and giving us back dust is in rule of law and freedom. Ever since that moment, we are grateful. This morning at arlington we honored those people who gave their utmost their life for our country. Veterans have liberated our country. They have kept this country running. Very impressive. Thank you very much for liberating us. Those values that you stood for at the time and were not available to us, we now stand shoulder by shoulder infighting isil. In fighting isil. We have the same values when facing isil. The next part of our visit will be to look at dutch history. 1609. And the first salute to the american flag. The dutch saluted the flag. Ever since, we have had a great bond with your country. Many americans are from dutch de scent. This is really worthwhile to continue our relationship. That is what were working on these days. We have seen a lot of these descendents. We hope to have a party in your hometown. Also, the region the house is hoping to look at serious topics such as urban farming and things we can learn from each other. Once again, thank you for receiving my wife and i self here. Myself here. All the best to the United States. Thank you very much. [loud press chatter in background] president obama thank you so much. We look at the personal lives of two first ladies. Jane pierce loses her son in a grievous train accident. She spends much of her time in the white house writing heartbreaking notes to her son. Orphaned at a young age, harriet lived with her uncle. She later becomes hostess at the white house. The first to be called first lady in print. Jane and harriet on cspans original series first ladies. From Martha Washington to michelle obama. On American History tv on cspan 3. Cspans new book first ladies. The lives of 45 iconic women. The president in his weekly address discusses immigrant heritage month and immigration legislation. Representative pat tiberi has the republican response. President obama hi, everybody appeared one other remarkable things about americas nearly all of our families originally came from someplace else. We are a nation of immigrants. The source of our strength and something we could all take pride in. Immigrant heritage month is a chance to share our american stories. I think about my grandparents in kansas where they met and where my mom was born. Their family tree reaches back to england ireland, and australia. Working hard, giving back, and treating others the way you want to be treated. I think of growing up in hawaii. A place enriched by people of different backgrounds. Native hawaiian, filipino, chinese, portuguese, and just about everything else. It helped shape who i am today. This month im inviting you to share your story. Visit whitehouse. Gov newamericans. We want to hear how you or your family made it to america. Whether you are an immigrant yourself or your greatgrandparents were. We cannot just celebrate heritage. We have to defend it by fixing our broken immigration system. Nearly two years ago, both parties came together to do that and passed a commonsense bill to secure our border and get rid of clogs and the of undocumented immigrants get rid of backlogs and for nearly two years, Republican Leaders have refused to allow a vote on it. In the meantime, i will keep doing everything i can to make our immigration system work just and more fairly. Last fall, i took active to provide more resources for Border Security and focusing on the real threats to our security. Bring more undocumented immigrants out of the shadows so they could get right with the law. Some folks are still fighting against these actions. I will keep writing for them. The law is on our side. It is the right thing to do. I want us to remember people like ann from virginia. She is originally from ireland and has lived in america legally for four years. She worked hard to play by the rules and ended up becoming a citizen. In march, her dream came true. Before taking the oath, she wrote me a letter. The papers we receive will not change our different accents or skin tones, but for that day, it will feel like we have arrived. To ann and immigrants like her yes, you have arrived. By sharing our stories and staying true