Transcripts For CSPAN Hearing Focuses On Violent Extremism 20170617

To enhance the economic and National Security of america and to promote more efficient effective and accountable government. The Committee Really is in many respects to committees and one. We have Homeland Security and we have governmental affairs. This hearing is really focusing on the Homeland Security side of the Committee Structure and within that structure we have four priorities. Border security, Cyber Security infrastructure and countering extremism and violence in any form, including islamist terrorism. Chairman johnson what we try tried to do in this committee is through this hearing process layout a reality. I come from a manufacturing background. Solved a lot of problems. The only way to solve a problem is first admit you have one, properly define it, properly describe it, gather the information and admit to the reality. There is no way anybody can deny we have a problem worldwide in terms of extremism and violence. We witnessed it just a few hours ago on a practice field for a Charity Baseball event. Let me acknowledge first of all our prayers are with those victims, congressman scalise, the staff member and the two members of the capitol Hill Security team that were wounded, and even having been wounded they continued to return fire and prevented a far greater tragedy. The appreciation we owe to the men and women in Public Safety that every day, they step out of the threshold of their door, they literally put their lives on the line. And that was demonstrated again this morning, so i appreciate anybody who is willing to step up to the plate to defend our freedom, protect Public Safety, but also stand up and tell the truth and describe reality in a world that is very dangerous, in a world that does not want to hear the truth and reality. Now in previous hearings on the subject we talked about the way radical islamist terrorists are using social media, particularly isis and have become incredibly effective at poisoning the minds of young people around the world to engage in these acts of terror and depravity. We have held hearings on trying to understand what motivates , this . What are they trying to accomplish . We have learned that in america what has been incredibly important throughout our history. We are a nation of immigrants. We welcome them. They have made this nation great but what has made this nation great is people who have come to this country who have come embracing the idea and promise of america, to become american, not rejecting their past culture. We never asked that but we do ask them to come and accept the constitutional law to be able to take advantage of this wonder and marvel we call america and the american economy. We have certainly learned how important it is for us in government and other Public Safety officials to positively engage in communities, every community to make sure that people are welcome and they will assimilate. Its not perfect. It has not completely worked. I think we probably could have done a better job as we witnessed recently whether its brussels or paris or places in europe where the assimilation has not been as effective but its far from perfect here in america and we will be talking about that. So again i just want to say again i appreciate the courage , of our witnesses and their willingness to step up to the plate and just implore everyone to have an open mind. We need to understand the truth. We need to understand the reality if we have any hope of solving this problem. We have got to get to a point where people feel free and safe to go practice in the morning at a baseball field or walk a street or raise their family. Thats what we are trying to accomplish. Its not going to be easy but the only way we do it is if we are willing to have the courage to face these truths and have the courage to actually tell them so again thank you for , having that courage and with that i will send it over to senator mccaskill and i would like to enter my statement into the record. Sen. Mccaskill i think all of us are waiting to exhale until we learn more details about our colleagues and our Staff Members and our police officers, but make no mistake about it, what we saw this morning was evil and i hope that this hearing doesnt stray from the fact that we should be focusing on evil. We should be focusing on violence. We should be focusing on enforcing our criminal law against evil and violence. We should be focusing on those people who twist and distort any religion be it muslim or christianity or buddhism. Anyone who twists and distorts that religion to a place of evil is an exception to the rule. It is not the rule. We should not focus on religion and the freedoms our country embraces. Our country was founded on many important premises but perhaps paramount among those premises was the freedom of religion. The earliest americans aside from our native americans came here because they were fleeing from persecution based on their religion. Our freedoms like freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion define us as a nation and no evil should ever be allowed to distort those premises. Premises. Ever. And im hoping although im worried honestly that this , hearing will undermine that. Underline that. I am concerned the president s Budget Proposal has taken its eye off the ball in terms of our fight against this evil extremism and the violence that it foments. Im worried that it has slashed homeland counterterrorism measures, like the viper team that has provided an extra layer of security at our airports. It also calls for the complete elimination of the Law Enforcement Reimbursement Program which provides financial , assistance to local Law Enforcement agencies to help secure our airports. It would reduce the Port Security Grant Program to transit Security Grant Program by more than 50 all soft , targets for these evil criminals. The urban Area Security Grant Initiative which helps prepare high density urban areas on how to respond would be cut by 150 million. The president s proposal would zero out complex coordinate it coordinated terror attack Grant Programs which are so essential. As we face violent evil criminals. While it is critical that we enhance our physical security and Law Enforcement with the resources they need to keep us safe we also have to improve our , efforts to stop americans from being radicalized. Our danger, at least to date has not been from those who try to slip into this country unnoticed or try to illegally cross our border who are seeking refuge a humanitarian crisis. Thats not where the danger has come from. It has come from people who are americans or people who are legally in this country who have been radicalized. We face a threat from a variety of sources on radicalization including white supremacist, ecoterrorists, isis, al qaeda. There is a long list. In the context of sunni and inspired violent extremism this hearing focused on the witnesses , it is absolutely vital that any effort our government takes to counter act extremism is done in partnership. In an full engagement with the peaceloving Muslim Community. In order to combat isis and other extremist propaganda we must have a healthy dialogue with muslim and other Community Leaders to ensure the resources are available to family and friends that may have concerns about loved ones. Unfortunately some of the , rhetoric we hear including , from some of the witnesses with this, is at odds approach and in conflict with the american principles and values. Most importantly its actually making the United States of america laissez. We need to spend less time stirring up antimuslim rhetoric and more time working on these issues and working with the majority of muslims both in this country and around the world who are peaceful and lawabiding. We are lucky to have michael testifying with us today the with us today. The former director of the National Counterterrorism administration or the bush administration. Is it leiter or leiter . Leiter. He understands the threat we are facing and has Extensive Knowledge and expertise crafting policies. Im eager to hear his analysis of the lessons we can learn from the recent attacks and uk and elsewhere. I would appreciate his thoughts on the present funding and a mentor student recommendations to bolster the nations safety and resilience without compromising our constitutional principles. We can do better to combat and prevent radicalism and extremism as long as we Work Together under the umbrella of those important protections. Thank you mr. Chairman. Chairman johnson thank you senator mccaskill. It is the tradition of this committee to swear in witnesses so if you all stand and raise , your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . I do. Chairman johnson you may be seated. Our first witness is ms. Ayaan hirsi ali. Ms. Ali was born in somalia in and migrated to the netherlands to avoid a forced marriage. She served on the parliament in 2004 with a short found submission critical of islams treatment of women. After the film was released the director of the film was assassinated. Ayaan hirsi ali is the author of several books. She currently is a Research Fellow from the institution that founded this Ayaan Hirsi Ali foundation. Ms. Ali. Chairman johnson, member mccaskill, Ranking Member mccaskill senators, ladies and gentlemen i join you both in condemning the violence this morning and i pushed the congressman a swift recovery. Thank you for this opportunity to talk to you about endangering our constitutions are freedoms and our way of life. Clearly not all muslims pose a threat but some do. How can we tell the difference . We can by understanding the nature of islam. Islam is part religion and part political military doctrine. It is a political doctrine consisting of a system of laws and a moral code that is totally incompatible with our constitution, our laws and our way of life. In 2017 there were two major governments that apply islamic law or sharia. Saudi arabia and iran. As we sit here we are also fighting a rogue entity that goes by the name of the Islamic State of iraq and syria or isis. Isis implements sharia influenced extreme in its purest form to islamic law as practiced in these cases negates secular law and demand submission without question. Women are subordinate to men and are denied such basic rights as owning their own bodies and sexuality. They face discrimination in marriage, inheritance and custody. Victims of rape must produce four witnesses and if they dont they are often stoned to death. There are no checks and balances and no free and impartial courts. There is no rule of law to defend the brutally suppressed. Not all muslims, not even those who live in the spirit proceeds support sharia. I call those who do medina muslims because they invoke hamed the founder of islam and medina. I believe that the vast majority of muslims accentuate the spiritual aspect of islam. I call the mac of muslims because they cite from mohammed and his legacy of mecca. The military at all of islam to call him the reformists. They are different from the mecca muslims because they stand up to the medina muslims by openly rejecting sharia. Most muslims live in secular states or states with some form of they are also millions of muslims today who live as considerable minorities. The medina muslims are not satisfied with the status quo. Their goal is to transform all muslim majority countries into islamic theocracy is and to use muslim immigrant minorities as a beachhead to transform nonmuslim societies, even free ones. They have a long time horizon and already have a foothold. Medina muslims use a combination of force or jihad along with the dissemination of their ideology through a mechanism known as doha. In theory doha is consistent proselytizing. Its a process of radical indoctrination. Doha advocates use the cover of missionary efforts education and cultural activities. They target the individual families the Education System the workspace the broader Economic Society as a whole. Its totalitarian like communism and fascism because different. This quest by the medina muslims to establish sharia across the globe by all means has led to weak and failed states to civil wars and the exodus of people from their homes and free society to the breakdown of social cohesion. We must solve not only the violent entities like isis ill qaeda boko haram and others but also dismantle the network up dawa. Above all we need to challenge the principles of sharia law. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Thank you ms. Ali prepare next witness is ms. Noz run the bonnie. Ms. Novotny is the cofounder of Muslim Reform Movement the author of standing alone American Woman and the struggle for islam. She rents a student faculty investigation into the murder of her friend danny pearl who was executed by members of al qaeda. Thank you so much. Thank you chairman johnson and vice chairman cass colin thank you senators for this invitation to be here today. Our hearts are indeed gripped with war from this morning shooting. I feel empathy and compassion for you because this day takes me back to a day 15 years ago when i felt the same grouping on my heart. I learned that day that my colleague and friend daniel pearl from the wall street journal had been kidnapped. We learned in the weeks that followed that he had been kidnapped by militants and it was 15 years ago almost to this day that we learned that he was buried in a plot outside of karachi, his body cut into pieces by the men who believed that their interpretation justified this brutal murder. I sit before you because on that day i developed a passion that i would expect you all would also feel committed to after you learn the intentions and motivations of the shooter this morning. I lost a friend. On that day i made it my duty as a muslim to stand up against the ideology of extremist islam that motivated the men that took my friend from this earth. There was one value that connected the 27 men that were involved in dannys kidnapping and murder and that was that they had all absorbed the dua are the evangelism of an ideological interpretation of islam that is of the nature that ion is speaking about. I want is to be really clear. This is not the islam that my parents taught me. The led me this morning to stand shouldertoshoulder with my father and open my hands and pray for peace of mind for everyone in this world. What senator mccaskill talks about is really important. We must make this distinction and i think at the same time that means that we are clear that senator johnson is talking about related to the enemy that we face. The ideology of islamism or political islam contradicts the Constitutional Values of this country. The elements of islamism for political islam are very clear. It demands that we have political government according to the laws of sharia or islamic law. Those standards are in complete contradiction with the laws of our country. I want to tell you from the trenches that this is a reality that we face in our country. In Northern California facebook promotes the page of an organization whose meeting i attended in Northern Virginia last summer. Behind the speaker was a flag for the Islamic State. In michigan a man is preaching to advocate for child marriages in the name of islam. In Northern Virginia and imam just preached that it is okay to cut the of girls because it leads to the ability to keep hypersexuality from expressing itself in the world. What is it that we must do . We must be clear as chairman johnson was saying, we must have moral courage and intellectual courage. We must absolutely separate the reference you do not try this islamism from those who do and in that way the objective that we have to protect muslims and to be able to differentiate extremism from the large swaths that my family and others practice will be realized. We will protect muslims if we take the strategy of marginalizing the extremists. We as a nation must be committed to shut down the ideology of islamism just as we defeated fascism just with swede defeated communism. The ideology of islam is some denies us the right as men and women to sit in a room together as we are sitting today. Its a nice girls a right to go to a concert and calls them dangerous women. Denies a woman like myself are right to sit in a bakery in daca bangladesh without being separated and then killed. We have to understand that the future of our world depends on our Clear Thinking and our wisdom. I came here with fear in my heart because we also face a network that i call the on her brigade at once to stop this conversation. Ayaan and i are under threat constantly put between us and the haunted Death Threats we facebook we said before you with our backs to our friends and our enemies because it is our duty. It is our duty to stand up for them and for humanity in which we believe. When i had dinner last night my mother was beside me she took my hand and she said, do this for humanity. I urge all of you to remain committed, remain committed to all the values in which we believe and freedom and the beauty of this world that we want to see in the next generation inherit. Thank you so much. Thank you ms. Nomani. Dr. Lankowski is the founder president of the institute of world politics. He served at the state department from 1981 to 1983 and then with the National Security council from 1983 to 1987 review is director of european and soviet affairs and president reagans soviet affairs adviser. Good morning mr. Chairman and ranking minority member and members of the committee. Im honored to have the chance to discuss. We have spent trillions in this country fighting islamist terrorism as if it is a military problem. This is like trying to eradicate mosquitoes by inviting your friends for a garden party arming them with shot guns and mosquitoes all afternoon. You will get a few. The problem is the garden has a puddle which is spawning new mosquitoes, not just terrorists but jihadists dedicated to establishing a totalitarian caliphate worldwide. This is not a military problem. It is a political propaganda ideological cultural and religious doctrine problem. To solve it necessitates fighting a war of ideas and the problem is we have virtually no ideological warriors in this war. We have a precedent in the cold war. Eliminating the sources of cold war tensions requires changing the marxistleninist core of the soviet system. We conducted an ideological war methodically for some four decades. This consisted of the use of the truth to counter soviet propaganda, undermining the ideology is the basis of soviet legitimacy and after monetizing the humanity of communist rule offering the peoples of the soviet empire positive empire Freedom Democracy and hope for a better life and supporting Resistance Forces within the empire. Victory entails the collapse of the communist party and the entire soviet system. A key indicator of that victory was the concession by one of the chief party ideologist that the ideology and the system it produced were evil. We must also fight jihad is some by targeting its ideological core. Je jadism differs from politically moderate islam insofar is that it seeks to expedite ordinary missionary activity by conduct in jihad of the sword and resettlement jihad migration to nonmuslim laws establishing separate and enclaves are run according to sharia and culminating in political demographic conquest. Modern totalitarian islamism which incorporates marxistleninist political strategy forms the basis of the recruitment of new jihadists both terrorists and resettlement jihadists. It depends on generating hatred against the infidel principally through a moral attack against colonialism, zionism and u. S. Hegemony and against the west moral degradation. If fighting this ideology requires an ideological counterattack based on superior moral precepts. Above all this requires telling the truth and ending selfcensorship about radical islamism and an Information Campaign exposing the ideology, exposing jihadists strategy, sharia and the crimes of the radical islamist regimes. In requires an attack on the ideology and its meticulous and by jihadists and i can discuss later on a number of different elements of what that would look like. Finally it requires offering a positive alternative including an appeal to conscience and the promotion of human rights. Regrettably our government is intellectually and organizationally unprepared to do all this. We no longer have centers in our government that promotes excellence Strategic Influence in ideological warfare so we should resurrect a new version of the u. S. Information agency. I will would call it the u. S. Public diplomacy agency located within the state department. Should contain all the offices addressing people for Public Opinion including Human Rights Bureau a strengthened version of the current global link agent center the counter jihadist propaganda in office of foreign Opinion Research bureau of Education Culture and ideas with a special office of ideological and religious affairs, the voice of america which should be transferred to this agency from the bbg and an office for the counterintelligence protection of u. S. Public diplomacy programs. The cia must resurrect serious covert political influence capabilities including the funding and browning of all forms of media and the ability to support voices of politically moderate islam in their efforts to discredit jihad is some. The Defense Department needs to strengthen its military Information Support operations and the department of Homeland Security, the state department fbi and local Law Enforcement need to significantly improve capabilities to distinguish between ordinary muslims who want their religion to be a religion and not aired radical secular ideological program to distinguish those people from jihadists and when it comes to whom to admit to the United States were with him to cooperate in the struggle against jihadist him. Thank you. Thank you professor or doctor. Our final witness is mr. Michael leiter. Mr. Leiter served as the director of the National Counterterrorism thank you professor or center from 2007 to 2011 for president george w. Bush and president obama. Chairman johnson making over mccaskill and members of Committee Thanks for having me and i would simply have my thoughts and prayers to those who were injured and the families affected this morning. Before directly addressing todays topic i do want to offer to quit bulletin points. First im not going to address all forms of terrorism because thats not what the committee asked for. Dont want that to be read as sunni inspired tears missingites threat we face. Some of the solutions to address in the inspired terrorism it is often the same. The second caveat is although im going to focus on the ideological aspects of the struggle i am extremely supportive of what is a balanced approach to terrorism. From my perspective that includes overseas kinetic actions to take people off the battlefield intelligence partnerships with our close allies aggressive Law Enforcement and an ideological component. If we just do one of those we have pretty much guaranteed ourselves a failure in the larger battle. Countering violent extremism which i refer to as edr those noncoercive preventative activities that aim to reduce radicalization and ultimately recruit to violence. These are inherently broad activities including all parts of the Committee Community rehabilitation and in my view any of these activities must be based on a very rigorous and as you said mr. Chairman is factual and truthful analysis of radicalization and thankfully i mike in 2001 this is something which in my view is widely available within the u. S. Intelligence community from credible partners overseas and academic institutions. When implemented properly theres no doubt in my mind thats programs reduce radicalism and violence and we shouldnt be surprised that. It works in antidrug activity and antigang activity and it can work in this context as well studies from Duke University massachusetts the netherlands kenya germany buk all back this up. In my view and i take significant blame for this having been the director of the National Counterterrorism center under president bush and obama, since 9 11 the u. S. Programs have been of marginal effectiveness and im happy and i hope we have more agreement. I agree with much of what was said about the poor resourcing and lack of focus on these programs internationally and nationally for these programs. Again i think we have some very good programs. I would highlight the office of Community Partnership that dhs. They are good people doing good work but we have not resource these programs and ends on a strategic away. Let me give a small example of this inadequacy and i would compare it to the drug problem. The 2016 federal Drug Demand Reduction Program received 15 billion. 1. 5 billion of that was prevention. The elements of dhs office of Community Partnerships had 10 million in grant money so we think this is a serious problem we need a serious solution. Right now we do not have that. In designing cd programs we have to be very careful not to alienate the very same communities of which we rely for the ideology of sunni violent extremism is part of the problem and it must be addressed and consistent with the First Amendment. At the same time we must not and i cant stress this enough conflate a violent ideology with mainstream muslim beliefs. To do so is not only factually wrong but equally counterproductive and it will feed directly into extremist narrative 100 and it directly undercuts the most forceful message we have. In this regard i think it is deeply mistaken and harmful to equate poor islamic concepts that are not inherently violent extremist interpretations of these principles. For example muslim tradition of dua are proselytization which is not the summer to christian is not equivalent with the islamists violent interpretation. Similarly muslims honoring sharia is not inherently intentioned of constitutional democracies any more than would be for christians who are who honor their religious traditions while still complying with civil authority. What would a successful Counterterrorism Program with a verb bust cde Program Look Like . Act aggressively overseas disrupting physical and as you mentioned cyber safe havens. Second federal Law Enforcement must work with local officials to share the heavy burdens of investigation and in doing so those officials must understand islam so they may distinguish between peaceful adherents and violent extremists. Defensive measures must take waste we must have a robust cde strategy for a country of almost 300 million that includes Education Programs for state and local officials on islam done in conjunction with local laws engagement with muslim organizations recognizing every religion we have in the United States with these muslim communities. Fostering gauge meant with the Technology Community and muslim organizations to enable effective in jail ideological engagement where the u. S. Government cannot and should not miss. Diversion programs model and antigang and antidrug programs to channel youth away from extremism and violence. Representing all elements of the u. S. And local governments to ensure leadership is far beyond Law Enforcement officials and just like in manufacturing we develop metrics to make sure where we will put our money they are dollars well spent. There are a number of programs that Ranking Member mccaskill said that i think are at risk domestically and overseas with the president s budget and i look forward to answering those prevailed forward to working with this committee on this and other issues which face us on violent extremism of all stripes. Thank you mr. Leiter. I did want to my Opening Statement to have you stay with me. Wanted to quote the full into the record. This was written in 1945 but unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance that if we extend unlimited tolerance to even those who were intolerant if we are not to prepared for the onslaught of the intolerant than the tolerant wheat destroyed and the intolerance with them. Mr. Leiter your testimony is that if we think there is a serious problem we need a serious solution and thats the point of this hearing. A think this is a serious problem click the recycle this hearing by the way was a wall street journal article written by ms. Ali striving describing dua. You describe dua and it could be. You are trying to promote evangelize their religion but what are you evangelizing about . Are you evangelizing the moderate, the nonviolent form or are you evangelizing the islamist terrorist form . Do you deny the reality that there are elements, that there are potentially terrible organizations raising money and funneling those dollars into potentially Islamic Terrorist Groups . Mr. Chairman i spent four and half years of my life working for democratic and republican person trying to keep the American People safe from violent islamic extremism. Any suggestion even in your question i somehow would deny that i think. Okay, great. I honestly wasnt trying to challenge you. Mr. Chairman there are undoubtedly organizations to wrap themselves in the cloth of religion who are pursuing violent things and we have to stop that. We have to see through that and i think one of the greatest challenges is educating u. S. Government officials and other officials to make that distinction, to draw that distinction between those organizations which are pursuing legitimate charitable means in the name of any religion versus those that are pursuing illegal and dangerous violence. I was not trying to challenge you. I truly respect what you have done in the testimony of a right to this committee in the past. I think what im hearing is not disagreement here although it might be set up. Is there anything you heard in testimony from our toothy no witnesses that you disagree with sydney first of all i want to say for much of their work that i respect and rather than try to give an overview or characterized all of their statements, the things that the witnesses have written some of which i disagree. I would largely agree with i dont agree with this view small things. Contrary to the good doctor i dont that there has been at least in my experience significant self censorship within the u. S. Government talking about this. In fact i tripled the resources of the National Counterterrorism center to study the ideological aspects so we could train state and local officials on islam. There is no issue about this. We knew there were ideological drivers of this and we had to start the program to go out and train committed to groups on understanding it. Restart a program that helps train Muslim Communitys understanding was available to their sons and daughters that might be radicalizing material on the internet. I do not think that was political censorship and trying to bury your head in the sand about what the recent problem is. Ms. Nomani can you respond . Ive been waiting for this hearing for 15 years because we have been unable to have a conversation about ideology and terrorism when it comes to islam. I remember a moment when i went several years ago and there was a meeting of Public Diplomacy officials and it was to talk about what strategies we can put into place and i said to her very simply about the ideology. Its about the ideology that you know very well. It is put out into the world by government like iran, qatar, saudi arabia and their proxies like Muslim Brotherhood but i was told at that meeting that we cant have this conversation about ideology. Our freedom of religion will not allow us to have that conversation in a public space by what i push back on and what im so happy to see us discuss today is the fact that the ideology that is the problem is one that violates u. S. Constitutional law. It is one that wants to see the overthrow of this democracy and wants to see us as women put into separate and segregated spaces with rights that are not equal to men. This is the reality. I have with me a book that i bought at the medina market in herndon virginia just off of route 7 called Wahhabi Court because off of route 7 are mosques and think tanks, the bookstore subpoenas this ideology out to our community. In this book of law, islamic law, the sharia here on the of the attack it tells us that should be killed. It tells us the reason why we should wage jihad in america and the rest of the world. This is not the islam that my parents taught me that this is a reality. Im so happy that we are finally confronting this ideological problem. Ms. Ali would you like to respond . Yes. I think its not so much a question of disagreement but maybe its a question of perspective. I think what i would like to do is start with where we agree. All of us here on the panel and i hope all of you and where we all agree that muslims are not anonymous with terrorism or misogyny or any of that. I would like to start by making this distinction between islam as a set of, as a doctrine, as a tradition, as a civilization on the one hand and a human being as a muslim. If you take islam and you study and there are likely books and studies on islam and what it boils down to is that islam is spiritual and it has a very rich history of spirituality but it also has a military political component. There are some muslims who accentuate spiritual and religious like the way your parents raised you to tell you that the way they see the spiritual component of their religion is peaceful and they wish no one else any harm. If they engage in evangelization or engage in dua that dua is about spreading goodness and wellness but there are other groups and that is why we are having this conversation. What we are dealing with is the other groups that are taken out of the civilizational context of islam and accentuating the political and the military. Both groups invoke the prophet mohammad who is the founder and invoke the koran and the question is does the prophet mohammad support the medina and muslim or does he support those who accentuate spirituality . He does both. When he founded the religion and mecca it was all about religion and spirituality. After immigration its about military. He has militias and he wages war. He develops a new law and these men in the 21st century who are organizing themselves as nongovernmental organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood is one entity or another theocracy like iran, they invoke the prophet mohammads legacy and medina so that i is why i think its extremely important that we make this distinction. We have problems with those muslims and only those muslims who accentuate the political and military doctrine of islam. We have been focusing a great deal, as we should and i agree, as we have been focusing on those who use violence and use jihad and terrorism. We havent paid as much attention to what you call mr. Lenczowski the breeding places. Those people who get into the hearts and minds of Vulnerable People and turned them toward its okay to harm people, that its okay to kill and its okay to kill apostates. Its a worldview of a society thats based on a seventh century law. To begin with we should have that classification and i came and i accepted gravitation to talk about only that group and not to vilify or stigmatize those muslims who accentuate that spirituality. I appreciate that and i appreciate what we agree on and what is the truth and what is reality. Trying to find out where are the areas of agreement and what we dont disagree on so we can figure out what is reality because the only way we will try to stress what you up worked tirelessly to prevent is his reality. Senator mccaskill. I think we all agree extreme ideology is used as a recruitment for extreme ideology and we must focus on it and we must fight it. We have to do that within our constitutional parameters. We cant ban a book. Its repugnant as the book is we cant ban it in the United States of america. Not how we roll and we have to fight it with the appropriate tools of our government and civil laws. As we fight it i think the facts really matter. Its important he remain factual your prepared testimony you discuss your. Muslim enclaves. Leiter you have broad experience working with their International Allies and partners and i know you travel extensively and works arm in arm with both your counterparts in these European Countries and the police in these European Countries produce that factual . Are there. Zones . In my experience in denmark, brussels, the United Kingdom, germany and france as we work with Law Enforcement officials i never saw anything remotely resembling a nogo zone. In the written testimony and by the way dr. Ali can i would love to see the citation. Its a 140 cases against the one you cite specifically . I believe mr. Leiter your former u. S. Attorney say specifically a man was acquitted for severely raping his wife on the ground she was muslim and therefore subject to sharia law. I dont believe that is true. I believe is patently false. Mr. Leiter are you familiar with that case . A case arose, an individual is seeking a restraining order against a husband for sexual abuse and the new jersey state trial court recused to find criminal intent based on the husbands belief that the sharia marriage contract would not have allowed him to do what he did in the first round of appeals in the next level of court, i was also a clerk for the Supreme Court for Justice Breyer and i believe it would be what was called proverbially a smackdown saying that the trial court deeply misunderstood u. S. Constitutional law and new jersey law and that there was no way in which this husband would be permitted under any interpretation of u. S. Law to go forward. In the case you cited in the missouri doctors lenczowski i talked another prosecutor in case where a Family Member abused a child over what they were wearing. It was a head covering but it could have been a short skirt. Could have been a bare midriff. A Family Member pulled this child out of the school and physically assaulted the child and was arrested on a felony of child abuse. I fail to see how that is an encroachment and the case is still by the way. Im not completely familiar with that case but i didnt write about it. I acknowledged by the way senator that particular case in new jersey reversed on appeal but the fact that it had gone this far. He was never acquitted of anything. Perhaps i used the wrong language there. Language matters. I understand that the judge made a judgment based on sharia that it should never have gotten as far as it did. I can tell you that having done domestic islands cases for many years and having thought and it legislature believe it or not in this country,a state legislator i sought to make sure that man could not rape their wives in missouri. That law was overturned in 1995. Up until 1995 men could rape their wife in a state where i lived. So i mean i think that this notion, mr. Leiter deeply that sharia law is slowly becoming the law of the land in this country . I think it is deeply mistaken the factual belief that sharia is making any inroads. Religious laws can be the basis for contracts between people if they choose to but ultimately the u. S. Court system has a very very welldeveloped judicial theory of when those religious agreements and religious contracts between individuals can or cannot be honored in federal courts that is wellestablished and i see no signs, no credible signs in sharia law for even the most minute risk to the u. S. Constitutional principles in u. S. Law. Mr. Leiter could you briefly address the issue as it relates to the president s budget and what that will do on the efforts in this country as we try to do exactly what this witnesses want us to do that is to combat this ideology recruiting people to violence. Talk about what we can do, what they can actually do to counter this important problem. Senator let me start by making this bipartisan in my criticism as i can. Democrats and republicans before this president if else felt adequately resourced these issues so its not just the presence budget on this one. I do believe in terms of what the main threats are we facing today largely Technology Internet radicalization all love london and paris and the like the presence budget does real violence with some of us especially for this community. Potential cuts in funding to the coast guard for Port Security or rail transit, these are real issues. These are places that need to be defended. They have not been adequately defended and they must be. The state department and usaid which are critical to the that have that the doctor noted. We have to regard those as the secretary has eloquently said it just means he has to buy more bullets and you cannot buy enough bullets. So the problem is deeply problematic. They were injured following this i want to add my pleasant person those were injured in the the horrific shooting and i want to thank the muslim for the service they provide. They are willing to risk their life for the mission of keeping us safe. Im grateful to all of them and First Responders today. With that said, i want to turn to broaden the discussion a little bit with you about the issue of the homegrown extremism and terrorism. In your view how can the department worked to protect americans from being radicalized radicalized, whatever their ideologies. Are we going to have to build partnerships, and again youve addressed some of the issue is about resources, but what kind of resources do we need to be able to do that . No doubt we cant and no bigger a softie than Donald Rumsfeld noted that. There is a different situation but with the same challenge. Arresting those that have already gone beyond a certain level of extremism towards violence is a critical part of that. But the best way we will be a defined and reduce the number of people were arrested are those deep partnerships. The fbi is good at that and has a global and National Presence that is probably unmatched but the department of Homeland Security has a key role because they are not all in Law Enforcement and partnerships cannot just come from people with badges and guns, so from my perspective the department of Homeland Security can play several roles. They are responsible for the infrastructure whether it is oil and gas pipelines, ports. Second, they have to be on the frontlines of that engagement, and it isnt just people Walking Around saying i am here to help, it is engaging and also building those relationships looking over at senator harris because so many of these companies are in the valley but the relationships between the government and the ngos and technology because there are things that the u. S. Government cannot say as a matter of constitutional law and doesnt have credibility anyway and they can play a key role in those partnerships. They have to remain at the center of the sharing information and sharing investigative leads with state and local Law Enforcement so we never had a situation like boston where something flows beyond the fbi that the Boston Police Department Might choose to pursue it. When they do that they have to make sure they understand that the constitutional limitations and again understand the ideological aspects so they can make the same difficult distinctions of times. I will deal with the remainder of my time. Senator harris. I expressed my prayers and best wishes for our colleagues and the folks that were attacked this morning and also thanks to the First Responders and Capitol Police who are so incredibly courageous and are sacrificing so much to protect other people. This morning the senator and i were at a prayer breakfast. Only senators in the room to share our faith not only in the god we worship, but in each other. And it was poignant this morning and there was actually a presentation by senator cassidy, our colleague from across the aisle from louisiana. What i took away from what he shared this morning was something i think we all agree on which is there are certain universal truths. There are certain things that in spite of what may appear to be differences between men and women and most of the things that we share that bind us that we have in common, we have so much more in common and its important for the leaders to emphasize those things that we share in common and unify us understanding that they are just universal truths. So, with that spirit, and i have several questions but i would like to talk with you leiter in particular about the thoughts that youve touched on this morning about what can be done to improve the situation where the work needs to be done. So if we can talk about it in the context of the dhs budget. They are deeply experienced in the government and understand islam. Would be three things. The first, you have somebody who is running that that is deeply experienced the government. Many peopleere are who understand this. He happens to be muslim. He is thoughtful about that. I have to tell you that its very hard to find in the u. S. Government. The number of senior officials who understand islam is painfully low, so thats the first thing. The u. S. Government tends to lack credibility speaking about any sort of religion but especially islam. The third piece i would say is they are innovative and focusing on areas which are non traditional counterterrorism drivers. Who normally does, terrorism, border people. They have focused more on educational institutions and worked on something called the peertopeer program which partners with educational institutions. Its in a variety of organizations. I think what we have generally seen in places like the United Kingdom and the netherlands, they tended to work the best when they have a little bit of arms length from the attorney generals of the world. The Rapid Response team that shows up for the transit programs when there is a threat so thereve been roughly 31 teams around the country i will tell you that when we solve the threats in the United States and we have Something Like the attack in london, then they would show up around the stations. It was equally important and many of these interagency programs for training for an attack i would love to stop every attack that we are not going to be up to stop every attack. How do we do that . We do that with time programs fema, the fbi and the National Counterterrorism. Theyve included hospitals in the area, telecommunications providers, muslim organizations, so you can both respond and save the people that are injured and to start engaging in the community. That was effective in orlando and boston and cutting the fun funds with the tragic. We would fully fund those programs in the effort to combat terrorism in our country. The programs in light of the threat we face are only more important than they have been. Can you unpack a little bit for me the possibility for collaboration with Silicon Valley and the Technology Industry . And i will carry that back. I spent three years working in Silicon Valley as well. So, i have no economic interest in this. But when we started doing in 2009, 2010, 2011 was this idea of the government cannot speak authoritatively on this, but there were many muslim ngos who wanted to understand how they could stop the radicalization and stop the violent forces but they didnt know how to get the message out and it turned out that people like him are all lucky were vastly better at using this and its bringing together countries like google and the like. How do you optimize. Do think that Technology Companies between 2000 and 2011 when i left and today we are in an even more problematic posture. And i say that for at least two reasons. The threats because the terrorist use of the internet has become vastly more effective effective. Its higher than it was in 2010 and 2011. Its critical and the Prime Minister raised these issues but fundamentally it is the issues of the contacts online taking it down into using the algorithms to give it more automatically. I think of the g7 Prime Minister may raise these issues. We have issues of reporting this content online and actively taking it down. Using algorithms to do this more automatically. Then making it harder nut to crack what you have and to end encryption. That is not always a risk, it will prohibit or keep u. S. Law enforcement officials not just working on terrorism for the communication and the way they have become. At this moment to interject, i know we are talking about First Amendment rights with freedom of religion and the freedom of speech which we all value, but we do in those rights rights. We do bad things like child pornography, it is illegal to incite violence where is that line . Thank you mr. Chairman. Again, we are so grateful we have two Capitol Policemen right near us today and we are so grateful for everything you do not only defending us personally, but the institution of the government and after an attack like today, we understand and bring forth the sharp focus of gratitude so i want to thank those that are present today but also see my hearts and prayers go out to all of those that are wounded and injured. We are building the relationships and i dont think anyone would disagree we know the formula. How would participate in ways that build relationships and radicalization. I do not think anyone here would disagree with that. With that formula. We need resources to do this. We need education and training to do this before senator harris, and some of your expenses you drew on some of this. You understand your experience between 2007 and then coming out of it in 2011. Even going forward. How do you see the thread is significantly more challenging i and finding the best practices for attack . Changed. Reat has i am still on the advisory board, i am always happy that i can walk out and go home. And not have to address all of them. The threat is significantly more challenging i think then i saw between 2007 and 2011 with possibly one exception. We were still worried about largescale attacks in a way that we do not face in the same manner today. We were worried about planes blowing up over the atlantic. Thats the good news. The bad news is the scale of the radicalization is occurring at the pace that the independents with which it is occurring so you dont necessarily see the same communications in the domestic elements and International Elements that are so important for us detecting them in all those ways. Lets pat ourselves on the back just a little bit. We have done remarkably well. We have to recognize the tragedies we have experienced, whether it is orlando or San Bernardino. Have generally been affec effective. And compared to most of our western allies, weve been successful at reducing the rates in the United States. If you look at radicalization in the United Kingdom per capita they have a larger problem than we do. The same in belgium and the netherlands and france. And i think we have largely been met for four reasons. One, the community is more integrated into muslim communities are. The muslim communities are better off economically. The muslim traditions tend to come from the moderate strains and extreme strains than those that are central and our muslims when they come to america and this is a generalization, but theyve tended to focus on being americans and not overseas fights as opposed to many in the south Asian Community and the uk and the like. Overall we have done a pretty good job, because we are americans, not because we have the programs to stop it and reducing that. So thereby, we have a lot to learn still from the uk prevent program. Its deeply problematic in some ways, but its much more aggressive ways and very important. The dutch have about this and have a number of social programs. Im hesitant to look very far at the de Radicalization Program because they have generally been in the states where they have constitutional protections that we do not have. Its not to say that they havent been good. But we cannot implement programs that way. So whats community and city the example of minneapolisst. Paul and the community has been absent. They faced a crisis in the Second Generation going to fight in a nationalistic war and the federal and state community in part led by the u. S. Attorney and the mayor in minneapolis did an outstanding job. I think some of the work that has been implemented and pulled into the radicalization has been quite good. One example in new york added to the list of sports and that is a good example and a way of making sure the communities that come from the traditions are now separated from the government didnt feel like they are partners. Sure the communities te from the traditions are now separated from the government didnt feel like they are partners. Its the need to better understand. We have done a lot of work over the last really since the 90s on the concept is called Community Policing. It became the model of the surge mentality as we are looking at not fighting the nationstates as much as the road groups. I think it is interesting to think about the Community Policing and those dynamics. On the ground with real resources and training to address the concerns that he would have been the aggregate important Critical Role in to her bosom and so i am deeply concerned to the cuts of the antiterrorism program. State and local police and medical, fire, all these people have to understand it and if they are not funded they will not recognize it and they will end up with violence after the fact. It is not as a general matter occurring in mosques. It is not occurring in public spaces but for individuals. When you look at what weve been able to do in child pornography which has been an incredible model that we could adopt in this fight, you know, the child pornography work that is being done by the department of justice i think is a great model for the work that can be done in terms of images and messages that could be shared broadly. Hailed as a Success Story i would note there have been bipartisan in the past as recently as 2015 coming out of the Senate Committee on intelligence and requiring a similar approach. Its when they would have to tackle. Thank you mr. Chairman and first i i would like to send my thoughts and prayers as well. I would think the Capitol Police for what you do each and every day. Todays topic is very important and i appreciate the testimony that debased the level of the Witnesses Today and the tragedy that certainly underscores the threat posed by violent extremism. Reading through some of the testimony i became concerned about the reoccurring theme of the antiislamic sentiment and certainly they are honorably in the military and Law Enforcement agencies in the Intelligence Community and they are an important part of the social fabric in our state. Capitulation of the attitude i believe undermines the collective values and contributes to the undercurrent of the xenophobia that is being levied at some of americas ethnic and religious minorities. They are at war with islam which we are not. Rather than lending legitimacy to the prejudiced view of islam we should endeavor to account for all types of extremism that leads to violence regardless of who may inspire it. As a nation we should seek factbased solutions that enable us to address the threats in an adapted and integrated matter. This question relates to the online radicalization. It warrants removal with protected speech. Its rather than sweeping legislative changes. They leverage the internet to disseminate the content. Often branded with its flag and logo it is really designed to support the objectives of a foreign terrorist organization. If you could make only one recommendation to the committee, what would that be in terms of your approach to confront the issue of the isys propaganda on some of the popular social networking sites . We are talking about the government in the muslim communities. That is critical. There is a lack of trust and cooperation between Many Technology communities in the government, and that is very problematic. And i very much understand companies are doing what they are designed to do protecting the shareholder value. But wwe are now in a place where companies have done a lot over the past two years to increase cooperation. But it was starting a pretty low point because of the leak and that alienation. We have to get back to the point that there is a cooperative relationship with his easily identifiable with Political Violence of any sort, the rabidly reported to the u. S. Government. That isnt what happens today. It is often removed and is rarely reported in the government simply doesnt have the means to monitor the internet. The general counsel at facebook, these are really thoughtful people who want to be of assistance and we have to figure out how they can be protected. The privacy and liberties of the people using these tools are protected but you still have a rapid methodology for reporting the instances like you suggest to Law Enforcement officials so they can start to find some of those needles in a massive haystack. You mentioned the company as to what degree is the threat of online radicalization going to require international approach to what you just mentioned. In my view the first thing we should do is try to drive this through the u. S. And our companies. Otherwise we will end up with International Pressure on our companies which will not be in the same vein as our normal constitutional protections and they may find them even more uncomfortable, so i do think that it is inevitable that they will begin to see increased pressure from the uk, germany, france and belgium at least in some of these issues. I do not think they can withstand that pressure over time is very needed to play a role in terms of defining what actually constitutes the private companies that are able to uniformly develop new terms of service and potentially identify violations . Skank only when you have that definition it is a little bit easier it would be in this context. Once you have that you have that mechanism people still believe protects privacy and civil liberties. I dont think we can live with the frankfurter, we have to give some rough boundaries even if it is in capturing 100 of the material if it captures a big enough percentage that will still be up meaning the assistance. Thank you for your comments. I do want to comment i read the testimony and i sold it comments but i didnt see antiislamic. It is bending over backwards to make that distinction and hopefully we can all agree that we are against Islamic Service on that insight and kills and cares. I appreciate your expertise. I will start with doctor. Thank you senator. We havent talked about the fact of the force behind a radical jihad is some as a moral attack on the United States. This has to be done in the National Leaders that are the representatives of the people at the highest levels one of the most effective things being done in the online war is done by a very Small Organization called good of all. It is dedicated to finding and in radical jihadism, a radicalization prevention andation, by standing for promoting the universal declaration of human rights. Ideals,ternative set of as an idea of i can capture the imagination of the new generation of digital natives. Who are affluent with computers and cell phones and social media and the like. Taken some of this effort, which is barely funded at all, privately funded. It has managed to catch fire in different parts of the world. Millions of hits in egypt for example on the work of this organization. Where egypt wasnt even particularly targeted. This was the natural course. Sen. Peters gender earlier that we are not a word with islam. One of the biggest arguments of the jihadists is that in fact the west is at war with islam. Made. Arguments have to be that this is not the case, that we are opposing a certain kind of radical political ideology. I am concerned here that too much of the conversation is focused on the question of terrorism, and not the question of trying to establish a basically totalitarian feel credit form of government. Made thew may not have kind of inroads in American Society that it has in other parts of the world. If you look in europe, these are European Countries that have plenty of enclaves where they have established parallel track for sharia law, and there are cases in u. S. Courts when it comes to family law where a muslim man may marry an American Woman. They will have children. Properan then make his muslim declaration of divorce hassharia family law triumphed in cases like this. The husband can take the children to saudi arabia and the American Mother will never see those children again. Im not an expert on that particular stuff but i have read enough about it to know that such things exist, that the parallel track for sharia law has established a good foothold in a number of European Countries. Are ihat there think that we have to the making insofar asar that there are those who want to try to establish the political order in this country that is at variance with our constitutional freedoms, this has to be opposed. It is being done under the shroud of religious of religion. Under the protection of religious freedoms. But in fact it is a Political Movement at variance with the constitution of the United States. I think we have to be vigilant about this and make the proper moral arguments at the highest levels of this government that can both inspire those who would to take aized different path, and alert those about the intentions are of certain kinds of evil, which is not just violence but the establishment of an unconstitutional order in this country. I have a 14yearold son, so i watch Science Fiction movies. We often times see the monster flailing. We can take this approach that we try to address every place where that monster hits from San Bernardino to orlando to london, or we can go to the heart of what is controlling that monster. What that is is an ideology of extremism that everybody on this panel has acknowledged. Earth anded on this see this ideology take root in communities from my hometown of West Virginia, to Northern Virginia, to the rest of the world. The heart of this sits in propaganda machines that are extremism. T this they are in qatar, iran, in saudi arabia, and their proxies. Senator mccaskill, you said language matters. Said, we do have rules, contracts in this country when you incite violence. When you lead people to violate our u. S. Laws. Amazon sent me overnight this book, woman in the shade of islam, that outlines how a man can beat his wife. It was delivered to me at my mosque in West Virginia wisely the Muslim Students association. Ideas matter. Words matter. We have to get at the heart of the ideas that are then leading people to violence. We are on a Conveyor Belt. We should not just look at all of these incredible programs that are dealing with people once they become violent. We need to address the ideas that take them on that Conveyor Belt to radicalization. Thatis why i believe also Internet Companies are failing us. Amazon. Com brought me this howto book on how to beat a wife. Go daddy in phoenix, arizona. Osts a website i invite anyone to go there and use the search engine, and look up the word jew, and see how many ways they say jewish people should be murdered. Website based in Northern Virginia and chicago that wants an Islamic State. We are not doing enough to police these bad ideas. These are ideas that are not protected simply by our free speech rights in america. They are ideas that incite violence. We stand together against white supremacists. We should stand together against muslims premised. They exist. As all of the members of our panel have agreed upon. Unless we go to the heart of the problem we will continue to be fighting terrorist acts to generations to come. We have to dismantle the network of these bad ideas that are being put forward into the minds. Nd hearts of young people we have to do it today. We have to dismantle. We have to put forward exactly the positive ideas. Governanceor secular committee for peace, for human womensincluding rights. Consistent with the uns declaration of human rights. We have to put forward good eliminate,hutdown, and take from this earth these bad ideas either through our relationships with these countries putting forward these ideas or by any means that we are able to stop the promotion of those ideas into the minds of young people. Thank you. I would like to go back to the big picture. You in your capacity working in the government, you have worked hard. I appreciate that area i want to evaluate if we reflect on how this government has performed since 9 11 and help other western governments have performed. My evaluation would be we have failed. We have small programs. If you look at the big picture look like drops in the ocean. We have trillions of dollars, we have waged wars since 9 11. Islamists, the radicals, with every name you choose to call them, they have grown exponentially. They are sympathizers, agencies, the money, the funding they get, all of that has grown exponentially since 9 11. Was we are going to take the war to them and stop this evil, and 2017 we can barely say we have stopped that. It has tripled. In some places that has. We have failed to define the enemy. We are flying blind. Our ambition cannot be we are going to develop all of these limit theo stop, to consequences of the next attack. In 2001 we are going to stand for no attacks at all. If you look at some of the other countries, i am worried. I dont think we have the sense of urgency. Do you realize that france is in a state of emergency since november 13, 2000 the scene. Germany has closed some mosques. Radical right wing groups in europe are on the rise as they have never been. I have lived in holland for 14 years. The was a small radical rightwing group. Today it is the secondlargest party. In britain, after these attacks in london, the authorities said there were 3000 people they were areay alien surveilling there are 20,000 people at large. When it comes to mounting largescale attacks, we have made it if colt for them to do the. They may not exceed. I hope they dont. When it comes to entering the minds of human beings and turning them into live missiles against us because they promised them a hereafter that is fantastic, we have failed. In that sense because we dont get to the ideology, we dont want to talk about this problem, we are now seeing thousands of men and increasing women who are prepared to use anything as a weapon. Their cars, their knives. Say, that for us to this is happening online. Ut that is not entirely true it is still happening in the mosques. After the attacks in brussels and germany, mosques have been raided and closed. It is happening in peoples living rooms. It is happening in schools. What exactly is happening . It is what i call dour activities. In evangelization carried out by muslims who accentuate the political military. Are in that they are raised with, using that doctrine to turn peoples heads and minds away from the principles. What we thought were universal decency, that is what their minds and hearts are being turned away from. They are being turned away to the idea that you are doing people, toto kill repress, to bring down societies. It hasnt happened in the United States. But there are countries in africa that have been brought down. Countries in the middle east that have been brought down. We need to bring to this discussion, we dont speak for the entire government, but i dont think we should walk away this morning when were done with the idea that there is no sense of urgency. There is a great deal of a sense of urgency. We have failed miserably. It is time to correct our course. I completely agree we shouldnt be penny wise and pound foolish. The purpose of the hearing is to define the problem so resources we do spend, you start with the definition of the problem. What im hearing is a great deal of agreement in terms of what it is. Chairman. Ou mr. Thank you for testifying. The ideology of highlight and radical islamic extremism is a challenging topic. , political and at times physical courage to speak up. As we reflect on these terror one year ago this week since the lone wolf attack in orlando, we cant allow fear to disrupt our daily lives. We must remain vigilant about the growing threat of islamic extremism and work to extinguish the proselytization of violence and prevent future tragedies. Questionsdirect some regarding the freedom of religion. Everyone in their testimony made mention of it. We are not at war opposing a certain religion. Ideology,war with an and violence that threatens free society and the liberty of every individual. American, how do we reassure freedom of religion violencehing back on carried out in the name of religion . Thank you for the question. Y family comes from india in india muslims are a minority population. The islam that i learned was one in which we accepted the values of the society and secular governance. That is what my parents taught me. The values of islamism are ones in which there is a sense of. Uperiority to anybody else the history of how we got here is rooted in the last hundred years. The dismantling of the Ottoman Empire brought with it dreamers who wanted to create a new Islamic State. E of those men had names those men created movements like the Muslim Brotherhood. They are the ones in terms of things they have done. When my father came here he got a ticket to manhattan. It was manhattan, kansas. Like a lot of indian immigrants, he was given a ticket to the heartland of america. , he lovedhis country the dignity of labor he saw. Toers came to this country colorado, he hated this country. He hated the freedoms women get in this country. Muslims, how do we resist that Islamist Movement . Differentiating from muslims. Isolate using it isolating it. Blacklisting it. Taking down their websites. Ans is how we have to create image and a vision of islam compatible with the 21st century, compatible with the United States. You come from a state that is the heartland of america. You believe in the same values my parents taught me. It is that universality that has to drive us. We have to recognize there are people in all communities, including our Muslim Community who do not share our universal values. Role socialoned the Media Companies are applying blocking terrorist material. As a society we encourage the free flow of information. But there are limits. This platform has enabled gruesome actions and it must stop. I spent 12 years in the cloud. Omputing business i fully appreciate the challenge and commitment to maintain reputable platforms. Twitter suspended 635,000 accounts for promoting extremism since 2015. How can government in western society augment tech Company Efforts . Make a moralave to decision that we have a right to speak up and against any form of extremism, even when it comes in the name of religion. We should not give extremists a path, because they are expressing religion. We have to use the same standards we apply to all of society against muslims premises that want to control our country. When i was doing research for this testimony i looked at the terms of service that go daddy and facebook has. Operatorsso many violating those terms of service by preaching hate against jews, against gays. I feel it is my obligation to say we cannot allow that to exist. We have a see something, Say Something verse in the carotid. Their witness to injustice even by your own ken. I believe that social Media Companies actually have to have the moral courage to police these muslims who are practicing hate. Thank you. Based on your expertise had we get platforms outside the u. S. To get serious like twitter and facebook have . During the cold war we had that. S. Information agency got information out about the United States to counter the falsehoods of antiamerican propaganda. We had information policies. Houses were there could be good Public Policy debate about these issues. We had all sorts of educational exchanges. Visitors, programs. So many people have a caricature view of the United States as fast cars, skyscrapers, surrounded by pornography. The work of see smalltown america, of churchgoing america, of the charitable work done in this country. The kind of things that can melt peoples hearts rather than incite hatred. ,e need to be telling portraying our country more accurately to the world. The last couple of administrations have been gradually shutting down the voice of america. The voice of america during the cold war with Radio Free Europe were described by the great russian author as the most powerful weapons we possessed in the cold war because we broadcast information, we broadcast the truth, we gave people accurate history when their history was being embraced by totalitarian regimes. Islamist regimes do that kind of thing. A complete mischaracterization of historical facts. Public diplomacy has been completely neglected by our government. It is the most costeffective instrument of American Power in the world. I will argue public the pop diplomacy was the decisive element to have brought down the soviet empire. Then there is the covert side of that which is equally important. Government doesnt have much credibility talking about religious theological matters. Think there are people who do have credibility talking about these things. For example, there are doctrines within radical islamism that say all a will allah wills everything. The rank of a 12yearold girl and the cholera epidemic. Is that really so . Is it his will that somebody should go out and kill innocents . Are you going to go to heaven or are you going to go to hell . This is language that the u. S. Government individuals cannot use but it is language that can programming, on the voice of america, where there are discussions about these things. Then the covert side of things. In the cold war we had newsletters. Newspapers. Stations, the congress for cultural freedom designed to fight the war of ideas against communism and were remarkably effective. People wrote for those journals without knowing where the money came from. It was u. S. Government money. Many such things. Thank you. I just have one further question. I think part of the reason i want to hold this hearing is to explore this concept of justhing other than i want to ask mr. Leiter, to what extent have we follow the money trail in terms of money being diverted from charitable works to not charitable works . How much work we have to do in that . Foundational point. All the money is important. Overall of the counterterrorist effort, important but pretty small. But we are seeing in many of the attacks, funding is the least important thing. Overseas, inations the u. S. That funding is less important. I do think that the pi ciartment of treasury, nsa, do a fantastic job today about pieces of this. In terms of identifying the money and using that as a tool to identify who the people are in pursuing them. The second piece of stopping the broader flows from charitable organizations, is admittedly the most difficult piece here. Well withne pretty established organizations. Hamas, hezbollah. It gets much more difficult for the u. S. Intelligence community, the more diverse those networks become when you are dealing with smaller charities, individual things. That gets difficult. I think it is something we have to continue pursuing. It is worthwhile. It is a penny wise, pound foolish. It doesnt cost a lot. An important way if done well again to build partnerships in the community, to talk about the charities doing good work, to not alienate the community. The Muslim Community, like every community has to understand just because they think a charity is good, some money may be diverted to very bad things. A war against islam. It is a war against serpent elements funding things contrary to u. S. Law. Very quickly. Much of what this panel said i do agree with. I absolutely want to go the good doctors points. Points on the his lack of funding for Public Diplomacy and engaging ideologically. It is not been due to some political correctness. That people say we better not call it islamic extremism. It has been deep thought about what the right language is. What the problem is. Congress bears responsibility for this as well. A lack of vision and funding for robust way a global to match the many fantastic military intelligence Law Enforcement people that we funded. , this will be more than worth its salt. Testimony. Iate i agree wholeheartedly. In terms of resourcing, it starts with the word definition of the problem. I dont like this reality we are dealing with but we have to deal with it. We have to recognize that. Encourage all of the senders senators, read the full testimony. That is a pretty good start. For your courage. For your time. This hearing record will remain open until june 29. This hearing is adjourned. Audibleiblin conversation] [inaudible] cspans washington journal live every day with issues that impact you. Coming up sunday morning, understanding trump. Path hasresidents shaped his style of governing. The humane economy. How innovators and consumers are transforming the lives of animals. Westerne retreat of liberalism. Change means for liberalism and western values. Watch cspan live sunday morning. Join the discussion. Earlier today President Trump delivered his weekly address and began addressing the shooting of steve scalise. James clyburnd by who gave the democratic address. First the president. Pres. Trump my fellow americans, this week, our nation was shocked and horrified when a gunman opened fire on a member of congress. Five people were wounded in the assault, including a member