Him. They came to kill the whole family. Learned about the freedom when volunteers from around the country taught methods of nonviolent resistance. Performingre charges Political Rights and getting ready to register to vote. This weekend, watch the city eastern. 5 30 p. M. The Senate CommerceCommittee Heard how telephone operators act under a law from 19 a one. Included attorneys and consumer advocates. This is one hour and 40 minutes. This hearing will get under way my apologies for being tardy but they you for your patience and welcome to todays hearing on the Telephone Consumer Protection Act nearly 25 years ago Congress Look to protect the privacy of individuals to prevent legitimate telemarketing practices and as a result a number of telemarketing practices have been reduced or eliminated for example, companies have to maintain the do not call list and not make solicitation calls before eight after 9 00 but it is showing its age with the opportunities to ensure consumers benefit from modern communication consumers should take advantage of new technology to help put them avoid falling victim from the do not call requirements. They have not received a recorded voice that they have one of cruz and to ensure the sec will take action against harassing practices and has the tools to bring bad actors to justice including those operating overseas the recently took a step to unanimously approved the legislation as part of of the fcc reauthorization act but today it is not only about abusive practices and stopping bad actors but also those that try to do the right thing and play by their rules and it is inadvertently hurting the good actors. Cell phones or uncommon and mobile phones were it extremely expensive there were strict rules to contact on the mobile phone but today that his model the ubiquitous but Smart Devices that do much more Consumer Behavior is different than it was a 1991. Consumer expectations and the benefits of better contact with schools or even though lenders would be unrecognizable to congress 25 years ago 90 percent of americans have a mobile phone half of all households are will only these percentages are higher for younger adults you cannot reach these people on their mobile phone to have a hard time reaching them at all the balance may now miss the mark for the benefits of a legitimate business practice that fcc plan is passed by congress to ensure the balance of the tcp a and that agency is creating more uncertainty. To create more questions and answers what is the autodialer . The commission will not answer that clearly the say anything other than a rotary Dial Telephone and then said it would not exact that definition or seek to determine a type of equipment that is within that definition banks and restaurants should not have to engage attorneys to know if they can call their customers without being sued another example of what to do with the number has been reassigned . Although claim to be addressed there is no way to know with certainty but what is certain if a phone number has been reassigned in you call in more than once you could be liable 500 per call even if they never a answer. Tcpa litigation is a booming business the second most cases is in federal court with 3700 filed last year alone representing a 45 percent increase over 2014. The companies affected may surprise you for example, twitter stated the following as a result of the hyper litigious environment we must choose between consumers information that they request from plaintiffs attorneys fighting the shakedown suits no company should be put to such a choice. The cost of getting the balance wrong is the cost to consumers and the economy of the contact that is not made for fear of running afoul of the in illdefined role Text Messages to let parents know about cancellations or six struggling households to keep the heat from being shut off or calls to lurch borrowers their risk of defaulting and followup calls to patients to make sure they understand their discharge treatment plans another matter to be discussed is the car about to allow those to will phones the administration used the bipartisan act as the robo call carve out in the department of education testified why those prioritized that carve out over years and unfortunately deal bauman administration is are represented today but we will continue to seek answers as the car about is implemented as we continue oversight of tcpa also protecting the privacy of consumers while making sure they have reasonable access and to assess the cost of doing business we have a variety of perspectives. If you go anywhere in this country do you want to receive robo calls . Or would you like to receive them on your cellular phone . You may get that thrown at you. They may like the distaste for those robo calls that interrupt at dinnertime in the middle of driving going on and on and it is the sentiment that we share and why for the last 25 years the laws have sided with consumers the number of Consumer Complaints about robo calls regardless of the of laws continue to increase the fcc received tens of thousands of complaints every month and we all have stories to tell. One of our friends signed up for a line service one morning and by the afternoon before he had given his new number to his family and friends his bonus was flooded with robo call so he gave up though landline in fact, how many of us know friends at home who have given up though landline to just use the cell phone for that reason . They dont want the robo calls. Most of us our cellphone is the lifeline and if we allow those annoying calls to bombard those where the consumers go to escape harassment so what would it have been on mobile phones is they would start to ignore the calls from an unknown numbers so they dont have to hear another recording only to miss an important call. What about a Senior Citizens and what about low income americans . Many of those have calling plans that are restricted with the number of minutes they can use every month so that would have to an immediate adverse effect or what about driving down the road just like as i was dodging in it out of traffic coming across the 395 bridge people cutting in front of me . If you get a call and want to answer it isnt important but it is the robo call so where does that and . The frustration is there this givers will always be a problem so we try to lung dash tried to address that in a bipartisan way things to his leadership senator fischer and i have teamed up of the bill to combat spoofing so that is why i like to see improved do not call list. Obviously there are legitimate businesses and reasons to call on the Wireless Phone but there is already in answer to that just give the consumers consent that has been though loss since 1991 and this bubble of policy makers are often in danger of losing sight to what is actually out there in america and there is no doubt if you ask that question of any American Consumers so thank you, mr. Chairman chairman for calling this hearing to shed light on the distaste of American Consumers about these annoying calls. We will get under way with the attorney general for the state of indiana testifying on behalf of legal reform with the National Consumer law center and also testifying on behalf of the American Association of Health Care Administrative management and up partner from the law firm and we will start with mr. Zoeller. Members of the committee i appreciate the opportunity to be heard i will pick up where senator dole said liftoff we do receive remarkable number of complaints each year and last year was around 14,000 for the largest number of complaints in our Consumer Protection area and over half of those were about john robo call specifically indiana has unique statute passed in 1988 that prohibits the use of the autodialer to make calls to consumers across the board and have successfully defended that statute through the federal courts to the seventh Circuit Court of appeals talking about how we do not allow these calls for anything other than those who have opted him like the schools or the pharmacies for report and calls were those letters still being heard. I do have written testimony i have submitted but i will summarize briefly that the focus of our intention is to maintain the protection of their own statutes with the budget bill that you mentioned with the exception for federal debt now challenges the ability of the state to defend there a statute and since we did not have any exceptions that we could claim there was no plan unconstitutional acts on the part of the state so now we have a new exception for federal debt and the case filed by the American Association of Political Consultants challenges the constitutionality and according to the seventh Circuit Court of appeals we now have a risk if that might raise the question if it is unconstitutional distinguishing between certain types of calls we have a blanket exception that we can defend a based on the fact we do not have those types that the federal government has allowed. Just briefly i will say that in the last month alone according to the national robo call index 2. 5 robo calls were made in the month of march so the rise quite frankly i had to ask my staff of that was a legitimate number so and i could not believe it. Unless somebody wants to argue the other side i will leave that it is yielding number we have got we do have a very specific sense of what the autodialer is when it can blast at 10,000 calls per minute it is a robo call. If you say it is on an space it isnt that actually called you but they call everybody in the area code. So within an hour and a half you can call everybody in washington d. C. We have heard from a number of companies that they need that opportunity to call cell phones but i will side with senator nelsons view that is the last link of the ability to communicate since we have pulled out the landline due to the robo calling abuse and most is from overseas and that a state attorneys general or the federal government can address but frankly the of problems that we have with robo calls i have for warned all the citizens of our state you should assume it is a scam artist. Anytime you see the of calls we have trained the people of indiana to hang up as quickly as you can just to stay on the line will sell the information to others he were home on a wednesday at 1030 is now known by the people and they sell that to others to use other techniques. They know you will be home and the risks to seniors is where we see that as the use of technology to collect data with spam artist you talk about the old version of the confidence man. The more they understand them or they can win over your confidence to know when you are home with the ability to target people with the amount of information or risk to consumers and not just the harassment but the number one tool that this be an artist uses to use against the news. We were very disappointed with the exception carved out without this type of hearing that were having after the fact with the of budget bill that was put in without this kind of attention we are representing 25 attorneys general to take that back out so while we made the exception risking the constitutionality plus you are targeting those younger students using their cell phone now we have managed to run up 1. 3 trillion of Student Loan Debt that is the number one target so were very worried where this sense we are against creating a safe harbor for number of reasons but the point for years 25 years of having tcpa there is no waste the opportunity for a legitimate business to ask people to opt in and we have new programs you may want to know about the sign up we will not harass you we will use it specifically you can always opt out but we have never seen go through the process to ask the consumers of they would like to get the robo call so without the trial of going through the process to get the consent the assumption should be made that people dont want it and businesses know they can never get people to sign up must they can argue the case to their own customers there shouldnt be something the federal government allows the people that you represent as they have already made it clear they dont. Good morning. I am honored to represent Death Chamber of commerce for legal reform for you today the context for my knowledge is over a decade i have defended of friday areas companies for creations i have been a witness to the Cottage Industry of those were targeting american businesses and i can confirm the past few years litigation abuses only worsened so we need your help. Over sensitize plaintiffs in the anti business order from the ftc has led to an explosion of litigation less about protecting consumers and more about a multimilliondollar enterprise. The suits are not about marketing or the robo calls that we just heard of those are indiscriminate trying to get anyone or getting someone to pick up the phone that is not what my clients send so for example, a client that has millions of customers has Automated Systems a credit card payment is rejected as to provide a telephone number the Company Contacts the customer to let them know your credit card has been rejected because if they dont and the Services Shut off there will be fees to get it turned back on again. This is trying to provide information through of a number the biggest driver of litigation is the number is reassigned the company has no knowledge as of today send the message to is what is driving a of a big chunk of the litigation out that they say i did not consent for that call and they can keep coming for other reasons now you have 40 calls now what my 20,000 then you have the demand in this is what companies are facing the facing. The tcpa itself does not provide for Attorney Fees the class lawsuits is just a business at this point. It is common class funds toward any recovery for individual consumers and in 2014 the average attorneys fees awarded was 2. 4 million of the average class action is 4 and 0. 12 and Large Companies are finding themselves targeted Small Businesses find themselves in court and had no intention to violate any law of the tcpa i have one client who has six employees and found me on the internet to their case and then i took on their case and then i have to shut their business and close shop if they cannot get past this lawsuit brought on a Class Action Lawsuit basis. Throughout the ofpany, a wide range industries. Banks,media companies, sports teams, pharmacies, ski resorts, a local Dentist Office have all found themselves defending against litigation and for those gotcha violations. These are legitimate communication they try to make not only is it a liability also of a trap as well there are companies that make no calls with no telemarketing no interaction with consumers such as manufacturers but they find themselves dragged into litigation with the argument of your products name was mentioned in the robo call that i received a because your name was mentioned your on the puck hook and responsible. This is a problem because you have companies with deep pockets and litigation having to defend himself with a class action basis where the damages are so when i a leading it reinforces settlements rather than defense. I provided some examples of litigation abuse such as a pennsylvania woman who carried a suitcase with her to jot down all the fee calls that she gets. She chooses area codes carefully and brings hundreds of suits. I mentioned though hellmann the too man who was on not call list but did not want to be on the list. There are lots of people making their living now i also provided examples of attorneys who are behind quite a bit of le litigation. It has been 25 years since the legislation was drafted. On does notses exist anymore. I am here today to voice the hope of thousands of businesses being sued that congress will act to update the tea cpa, provide clarity in the un tolerable and unfair burden that portions of the statute are placing on american businesses. Thank you. Chairman, senator, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify on behalf of of the National Groups that collectively represent of American Consumers. We believe that robo calls poses severe problem, and we ask you to defend the tea cpa or strengthen it. Twentyfive years ago it was passed because of complaints about robo calls, which are still pouring in. The problem is it costs a tiny fraction of a penny per call making it cheaper for businesses to make calls them to be careful of who they are calling. Designed to ensure control by requiring expressed consent, the examples raised were emergencies that should follow the exception already a law. Industry is making extravagant claims, turning knew claims litigating call to support their insistence of the law be changed. If the judicial system has a robust mechanism to protect against meritless claims, tea cpa claims dont lead to attorneys fees, the cost restricts these cases. In 2015 there were over three and a half million complaints. Far more than any other issue. For every 1,000 complaint only one lawsuit was filed. Most consumers who receive unwanted robo calls the complaint of a federal agency. Only one 10th of 1 percent of those that did. Here are a few of many examples. 25,000 growing number Text Messages to one consumer refusing to stop. One consumer in six months seeking to collective debt. Time warner cable using Automated System involving zero Human Capacity tool woman who had never been a customer. All these cases business entities set loose and Automated System, even after the consumers repeated attempts to stop calls. In each case the car had decided it was simply more Cost Effective to ignore the expressed wishes of these consumers and continue to make these automated calls. 70 Million People approximately rely on prepaid or lifeline cell phones. Many consumers are low income in our land is limited minutes for essential calls. Unwanted robo calls in to these minutes. It would be devastating to these users. For example, the industry argues the fccs longstanding definition of dollars on based on the notion that the current definition covers too many instruments, thus making the distinction effectively meaningless, but the definition the industry proposes would exclude the technology that is currently being used. Unfortunately section 301 past last october to create an exemption to the tea cpa that permits collectors of federal that, primarily student loan borrowers and taxpayers pursued by private collectors be made without the consent of the consumer. This is a dangerous precedent that will impact of her 61 million americans and should be repealed. We strolled support the hangup act which repeal section 301. That consumers do more protection not less. Continued enforcement is critical. Thank you. Chairman, ranking member, thank you for the opportunity to submit testimony for the record. Activelyas the representing through a comprehensive program of monitoring a participation. I appreciate your holding this hearingtoday. The fcc rule on more than 20 petitions. One of the petitioners sought clarification as well as a partial exemption from the active facilitate important healthcare related calls. The ruling did not clarify consent. These cannot be financial in nature. Because of the ambiguity many well intended Healthcare Organizations of been sued for nt cpa litigation continues to skyrocket. Healthcare providers cannot do their job effectively, efficiently, or costeffectively without appropriate technology. They prohibit the use of such technology that drives the cost of healthcare higher. Unsolicited telemarketing calls in their homes at all hours of the day and night. Searching the use a lot of hours and by requiring consent to be called. They have fully supports the goal and Mission Helping to reduce unsolicited calls. The complaints typically are not involving healthcare providers. They have become severely outdated preventing the Health Care Appointment reminders, Insurance Coverage eligibility issues for Social Security disability eligibility of Payment Options for credit card fraud alerts, verification of travel changes, Package Delivery information and more and prevents them from receiving these communications on the devices they prefer. At the time the legislation was passed over 90 percent of us households rely on their home or landline phone nearly half of all American Homes no longer maintain the landline. In 2012 with a 2. 19 trillion Text Messages were sent and received. This could not. To make matters worse the laws and regulations have been passed that make compliance more difficult. Two examples are doing with charitable hospitals. Reducing the rate of readmission. The Reminder Service education can be successfully and Cost Effectively conducted by phone. However this cannot be economically done currently. Similarly the 501 are regulations. Another mandate requiring hospitals make reasonable efforts to determine whether an individual is eligible for financial assistance. By requiring the use of more laborintensive methods the fcc decisions have added diverting resources that would otherwise be dedicated to patient care. It makes no sense to allow technology to be used. Today the fcc is looking at the modernization in the wrong way. Balancing information quickly and efficiently and be protected we urge congress to modernize to allow Automated Dialing Technology be used as long as they are not for telemarketing purposes. This issue simply points out the need for regulations to keep pace. This is about government working to bring healthcare costs down, not drive them out by continuing to require adherence to outdated rules and regulations. They invite opportunistic parties to pressure caregivers for huge payouts. While suits require extraordinary time. Thank you for this opportunity. Please feel free to contact me. I would love to work with the committee and real solutions. Thank you. Good morning chairman, ranking member, members of the committee for the opportunity to address the effects of the tea cpa are consumers and businesses. I am a partner testifying today in my own individual capacity and now half a specific client. Before joining i spent over a decade in senior positions at the federal Communications Commission including service as chief of the consumer and Governmental Affairs bureau which oversees implementation of the policies and rules. You sort of a wide range of clients in various Industry Sectors on compliance. They all share one very serious dilemma, how to manage risk in the environment whether normal, expected or desired way to communicate is my calling a cell phone or sending a text editor require certain outbound communication. Where every single call to a cell phone for every single text carries with it the potential risk of ruinous damages. Protecting Public Safety entities and businesses from the jammed phone lines caused by dialing equipment that automatically generated and dialed thousands of random or sequential numbers and protecting normal, expected, or desired communication. Today there are no longer any safeguards protecting callers from tea cpa liability for normal communication. It does not matter if you are a national bank, local blood bank more tiring. Youll never know. They created the safe harbor , but it does not apply after one single little reassigned call whether or not there is any actual knowledge. You may be using technology that does not have a you toa you to the views or even have a sequential number generator, but your still using an automatic generating telephone dialing system. Modified that some hypothetical point in the future. No one knows what this means. This is not workable. As a result their official, compliance minded entities are put into a catch 22, companies trying to engage in Financial Education are punished. Consumer communication triggering risk including communication from utilities to warn of service outages, mobile programs for schools, nonprofits, credit unions, political candidates to provide information regarding townhomes, the list goes on and on. Second, while the environment surrounding communication is becoming increasingly punitive, others are encouraging and requiring contacting. Companies are diverting resources from core business functions and taking inefficient steps to mitigate risk. Although this creates a higher risk, Larger Companies with more resources are paying for multiple databases without assurance of additional accuracy. Companies are requiring consumers to provide notice and subjecting them to lawsuits from failure to do so. Finally, not getting a call does not mean that a debt wont go away. I want to educate the consumer about available rePayment Options and potentially avoid negative consequences. The department of education stated when they are able to contact a borrower is a much bettera much better chance of helping the borrower resolve the delinquency. I very much appreciate the Commerce Committee suffering that understand. I have three recommendations for restoring the balance. First i would ask congress to support the creation of a number database and safe harbor. The 2nd step of congress to confirm when it created a statutory defense for prior expressed consent it did not intend for that to be meaningless. It did not intend to run the sweep into the definition any and every modern biotechnology. Callers being put an untenable risk. Consumers ultimately are suffering the consequences. Thank you. The fcc has concluded that it could pose significant risk to Public Health and safety and they use could speed the dissemination of information. Despite receiving prior despite receiving prior consent number of utilities effaced extensively defend litigation and potentially reuters judgments. Do you agree the Commission Action on the Edison Electric institute in American Gas Association petition for declaratory ruling would help utilities avoid meritless but often times costly litigation for notices and do you think it is well overdue . I would agree. I agree that it is overdue. I am concerned villages be one more exception in the checkbox. In this 2015 order this would just add a few more. The problem is, there are all these other calls that consumers would want that they have signed up for and requested and asked the businesses areour friend make or family getting sued. The fcc does need to rule on that order. Clearly people need to know Affairs Power outages. People may have medical equipment that relies on power, and prayedneed to be able to listen to an outage. I think it is to be a much bigger look across the board about calls that are legitimate calls that are generating lawsuits. Recent field hearing cfp be director cordray said, let me take a moment to acknowledge another positive development to provide consumers with realtime information. They are doing this through text and email alerts which can reduce the risk that consumers and apparently overspend. How can banks,how can banks, credit unions, and other Financial Institutions increase communication with consumers if they have the threatof litigation paying over their heads . You raise an important point. There are all types of time sensitive consumer beneficial communication such as the example you raise and high purchase alerts, low balance alerts, and the 2nd time sensitive communication are only possible through modern technology. Communications can be made through a rotary phone. This is the heart of the challenge. Not all of my clients who engage in communication with consumers and customers. They are paying a significant costs for the additional risk that any time sensitive communication that they make runs the risk of being sent to a reassigned number, and that is a factor that they cannot fully control. As a result, many clients are choosing to decrease beneficial elective communication through cell phone are taxed because they know every single one of these communications does carry that additional risk. You stated the quote, the Practical Impact of tcp restrictions is devastating. I am wondering if you could elaborate what that means for patient care . Thank you,you, chairman. That is probably the most important question i could be asked because it does impact on patient care. As any other enterprise or hospital has to make economic decisions command resources haveto move resources have to be dedicated to an administrative action such as dealing with the tea cpa the requires decisions to be made with regard to staffing. Blumenthal not here, gas columbia. You make this sound like it is impossible thing to do you guys can manage to get their permission the followup by phone and call them, why is this so economically difficult for you . Thank you, senator. The problem is that complainant spars taken the opportunity to trust the language and is chosen to sue most of the members with regard to the inexact suit. Can you imagine if we made it legal, what would happen . . Enator jac complicated. Do is call them. You make this sound like it is will to do. Hospitalsomeone please you cannot call them . Wife that so difficult. The problem is that complainant spars taken the opportunity to trust the language and is chosen to sue most of the members with regard to the inexact suit. Typically is paid through the consensus of admission. Those are written document signed by the patient and i languages than torn apart by some of our brethren. Just do a simple when someone checks out of the hospital for present a simple card and said, do you mind if we call you on followup and have them sign that . I dont think lawyers would have much luck with that in front of a jury. A jury. If you guys are settling those cases, shame on you. Take them to trial and kick them in the rear in the courtroom. You guys need to understand this. This is the biggest Consumer Problem in the country. Some of these witnesses, you are in here whining about these poor businesses and is consumers dont want them. They do not. When someone has a reassignment number they need to call them 40 times, that was your testimony, what about male, drop them a note in the mail and figure out they have a different phone number. Senator, the problem is that not all the numbers are reassigned. Their numbers are only provided from the start, and if it was just the one number it wouldntwould be the issue. The issue is his lines there is one number that a class action is brought. Have a class action and there is no statute of limitations. Suddenly all phone calls made by the company for four years are put it issue. Let me ask you have the complaints gun down or up. Of these lawsuits were really damaging. The massive amounts of phone calls are not from people being represented here. The ball calls that come from overseas when sally ability. Inthere the only ones who could regulate those huge massive calls that originate outside jurisdiction. Without enforcement ability as the ones that really are put well over half of the complaints. Next line care service 12 security company, and a charity for violating the law. I dont here tones of international in any of the list. This is a real problem. By the way, i would suggest new line know the carriers are members of the chamber. We know from hearings regarding committee that the technology is available. It has been clarified that there is no duty to collect calls that prohibits them from developing this technology. They can adopt the technology and make it available. We are not trying to punish people probably for a lot of people run for office, if you think im backing up im going after people who make robo calls and landline counter every day from people i meet including my own family, my son cant get to companies to quit calling him on his cell phone. He finally handed the phone to me and i said, im a us senator, going to sue you. They call them 15 minutes later. I think that those are really the bad actors the need to be targeted, have been targeted because im not saying it would somebody receives notice this is a wrong number and in a reasonable way they should have a chance to implement that knowledge in the call should stop. They dont. Ask the saunders. Does she have examples of was that didnt . Andhave procedures in place. This works for 99 percent of the time, but you have human there was something that doesnt happen, you might have a vendor that hasnt been following policies. Were trying to call our customers to convey information. There is no desire to continue to call someone who is not a customer with information. It does not feel like that. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The other half of the missouri duo. Thank you, chairman. But they said was half of the robo calls come from out of the country. Senator, thats a great question. Again, between addressing this with the fcc and the carriers, they do have some ability. They pointed to one another for years. Up until recently i have been critical of their failure to regulate. The carriers have always said they are nervous about whether we have the ability. Now that they have passed a rule the ball is back to the carriers say why arent you using the Technology Currently Available command we are not talking about any of the type of calls you are hearing about. Is a massive calls that call everyone in the area code. When i geti get the complaint i tell people, dont feel too special. That somewhere in that fingerpointing, the answer to your question. It seems to me one of the things you said is exactly what we are talking about comeau we are talking about massive robo calls, half of them based on your information from outside the country command the other thing is people are joined to contact someone is number that no longer have never had given to them in the correct way. Surely there is some way to separate the discussion. I have heard some banks no longer even try to notify all what they would see as a routine problem that i would like to be notified of. Some activity that does not seem to make sense. They dont notify me. Is not a real problem . Yes. The American Bankers Association submitted a filing on exactly that issue. It is a problem. Once you have been sent you must be able to rely upon it. The problem is that you cannot any longer rely on the consent because there is no way of knowing if a member has been reassigned which is why the increasing numbers of banks and other institutions are afraid to make routine calls or send routine messages. How long does it take to reassign a number . If i give up my cell phone number, is there a definite period that that can be available . How long is taking the four somebody else is answering the number i used to have that i give the hospital or the bank or the college, how long might be for somebody else has the number . It depends upon the provider. It can be as short as 30 days. Ait sixight w months. It is kind of a hodgepodge. The business doesnt know who the cell phone provider is n any given number. But if it was six months well, say we had a rule that you can do it in a quicker than six months from anybody they got my cell phone number earlier wouldnt have any certainty that it was to my number. Until they call it, does that sound right to you . Yes, butbut i think the Cell Phone Companies may not agree way six months because some companies have a smaller batch of numbers that there going to want to recirculate. I think that several of us agree on the panel that one way of dealing with the calls to reassign numbers is for there to be a mandatory database that all Cell Phone Companies participating in our allow callers to access and ask what was the last time this particular phone number was transferred. Once the answers provided the caller would know whether or not they had a valid consent. The problem with the situation now is apparently there are no full databases that are defined that include all the Cell Phone Companies. So i think several of us on different sides of the issue have all been encouraging the Cell Phone Companies in the fcc to either voluntarily do this or mandated, but that would solve a lot of litigation against 2,000 about the growing number calls. It seems to me that we have got two very different problems here. One, it is easy to be outraged, and the missouri delegation. I appreciate that and like to see it happen. Good cop bad cop. Maybe so. The other is a problem we are sympathetic to. If we can figure out how to divide the discussion in those two categories we are much more likely to find a solution to both problems than not. That suggestion is one way may want to explore and take a look at. I know definitely the missouri delegation, ive had to call some places. Somebody does not like unsolicited phone calls. I have senator clover char senator danes. Very good. Thank you. Who else . So i am a cosponsor of playing a part to repeal the provision. The saunders coming your testimony youestimate that this provision would impact 61 Million People and point out that debt collectors do not have accurate information. You testified 90 percent of the complaints because the caller was harassing her own person. In both of your opinions, how significantly does the provision undermine existing robo calling protections, because the wages to the senior tour minnesota will calls are really one of the things will time. The provisions dangerous. One of the concerns comeau one of many concerns is the ftc and other Government Agencies tell people not to answer any robo calls. The ftc has said publicly repeatedly the irs will call you. But now because the irs can hire debt collectors in the irs that collectors can call without consent, that advice from the ftc is no longer available and yet how to people who are receiving scam calls know the difference . And so i can go on, but the problem is tremendous, and it is not a good resolution to our consumers will money to be called more. Add to that my earlier focus. In our experience growing up and does not distinguish between the type of calls being prohibited, and it was neutral. Once you start to carve this ou it almost goes back to the point about looking at these things differently. They are not against offending, and it would go a long way to eliminate the frivolous litigation. A better defense as opposed to an exception. You point to arise. I know that often these involve someone moving to trick a victim command if we dont pass the act and or some kind of strong legislation you think you would see more of this going on. I got a little bit numb to it. There you go. I will send is outraged. People have used your own office name . There were a number of issues. The fact that i was constantly telling people to be careful spoofing end you cannot rely on it. They can put a number on it. Pilots on their using mine it was because we were public. The low credibility is being used against us. It has been 13 years now. More than 222 million numbers registered. The public is incredibly supportive of the concept on the list there are more complaints than ever. Expanding in proliferating. Again, we know that more needs to be done to protect consumers from fraudsters and robo calls. What is the most significant limitation and addressing the current robo calling problem . We mentioned it. Or very much appreciate the bill, we think that the law needs to be much more evenhanded and require that they adopt the technology. I find it hard to believe. The technology is out there. Adding this. Yes. All right. While we are doing that, the idea of having some ability to stop all the illegal ones being done from overseas, i think that is something that technology has gotten us into and we need to focus on how can we get out. When the fcc passed a recent regulation i know the carriers concerned that they were going to require the use of the technology to block overseas calls, but calls, but when that wasnt enough they had a sigh of relief. We were hoping that it would be. I am over my time. The call completion issue and dropped call. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I brought along a phone from a 1992, the size of it is only exceeded by its weight. It makes a good boat anchor. This is 25 years old at approximately the same time the was enacted. Tcp a we can see how far technology has come from this device to what i have my hand they get that has reduced the number of phone line to the phone calls because of innovation. But as we have heard today now 25 years later, on one phone calls are still among the top Consumer Complaints. And even when they do File Lawsuits for violations, it seems like the trial lawyers are the only ones that truly benefit. I have heard the tcp a has been referred to as the nickname the total cash for plaintiffs attorneys. Consumers are still receiving unwanted calls. Your testimony, you said the average payout was 2. 4 million. The consumer payout was 4 and 0. 12. Is the tcp a really helping consumers today . Senator, i really do not think that it is. The abuses that are happening it would be a lawyer driven statute. The kinds of calls are driving around crazy, i get them, too. Often put on the menu, get the coupons on a weekly basis, check the system and we will start sending them to you. One text message and suddenly my client is facing 32 million in statutory damages. No one is getting the coupons anymore. This doesnt benefit consumers. State like montana, we have a lot of Small Businesses. They are not trying to call the customers. Not inundating them with texts and faxes, but there trying to reach the customers mr. Customers to remind them of appointments. Is it reasonable to ask a Small Business to comply with the 2015 tcp a order . The interpretations provided particularly damaging for Small Businesses. You know, they have no way of they should not have to check the database to see if the number that they were provided by their own customer has suddenly been reassigned. They probably cannot afford to do so, and if they did it might not give them Accurate Answer anyway. I think it is expensive for a Small Business to have to turn the manual dialing in order to reach their customers. I grew up in a Small Business. My mom and dad are into construction business. The Compliance Department would be my mom and dad. So what kinds of Compliance Costs and challenges with the Small Businesses face . Well, in order to be completely sure that they are using a dialing equipment that will trigger liability they would have to invest in a rotary phone, if they can find one. There would have to try to figure out, you know, a regular basis of whether the numbers that have been provided consent to car still accurate. I dont have dollar figures. I dont know. My large clients, thousand of employees they rely on technology to communicate 30, 40, 50, 60 miles away. I want to bring up this issue of rural health care. Hospitals are not around every corner. Often times, clients rely on technology to communicate. Explains how it impacts patients in rural communities. Thank you, senator. Wouldd think the impact be even more devastating. The interaction is a sacred relationship, and if there is an ability to follow up on inpatient care, to provide instructions with regard to further care law remind people about prescription pickups and appointments, and all would be devastating to the effectiveness of the healthcare provided. One of the things that trying to do is cut down on readmission, when the patient is inadequately treated because of rush to discharge. With adequate instruction and interaction readmissions will reduce and therefore the overall cost of healthcare we go down. Inability to use the most Current Technology to pursue that end is devastating to the industry and just causes more cost and administrative training of revenue that impacts on patient care, reduces the availability of the caregiver which is the essence of the relationship. Thank you. Thank you. I just want to know where the senator from montana came up with the vintage mobilephone there. You got that in the museum. We did. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, if there is a form of Consumer Complaint that is common among the people of connecticut it is unwanted calls. Whether it be telemarketers or local officials werepoliticians command among those calls the most aggravating and annoying robo calls. If we overlook the anger and aggravation caused by these calls we are doing a great disservice to the people of america. They want stronger measures like the ones that we have proposed that give consumers essentially more control over the calls. That is essentially it. Stronger Consumer Protections from government authority, no question in my mind that the present law needs to be updated and upgraded to provide better, smarter, stronger protection because the problems are only going to increase. You do now what i used to do for 20 years. A lot of him and it is Consumer Protection. Are you finding increase in the number of complaints . For example, from a 76yearold woman in connecticut who says to me, i am weary of all of robo calls that i receive, can the Senate Address this issue which seems to be noncontroversial a 76 yearold Research Scientist with reams of complaints from people who are upset about these calls. Every day i get unwanted robo calls, most annoying. I have reported this to the no call list people, but nothing is done. That is the reason we have a private right of action. What is your experience . Senator, you all remember the days where we literally did have some protection. In indiana and missouri we literally had client at home. Quiet at home. Going from the perspective when people knew the could be stopped, they understood that something was going right to the point where now the vast majority is taking out there land lines and when i tell them believe it or not the u. S. Congress is thinking about opening up new exemptions to allow robo calling to cell phones, they are outraged. So again, not to, not to say that it might diminish the high standing, you risk the fear that people come here with pitchforks and torches. Youre right on the money. I have heard of the pitch fork and worse. I think your absolutely right. For a congress that is done so little and to now do something so bad with the absolutely outrageous. Giving consumers control, empowering and is basically the goal of these laws. It is not to restrict calls the consumers want. Itis to enable consumers to stop the calls that they find bothersome, annoying commenters from invasive, and worse. I dont know the answer to that question. You need to ask the phone companies wanted one employee why they will not employ those Call Blocking methodologies. I would point to the example of what this congress did 40 years ago when it passed the Consumer Credit protection act november banksting the burden on or losses when there was credit card fraud. Because the banks have that burden they have been vigorous in developing anti fraud protection. The lawsuits that are suffered are then suffered by the things. The phone company have the same losses resulted from the calls especially overseas telemarketing spammers they would be quick to employ vigorous anti spoofing and robo Call Blocking technology. I will put them in the record. I do believe the present penalties and tcp a are inadequate as a deterrent for bad actors and repeated violators and i hope that we can strengthen this important federal measure. Thank you. Thank you very much. I enjoyed this conversation. I am the author of it. There was an epidemic people are afraid to look at the following people were afraid to look at their phone at night because it would start to ring about 6 00 and would be nonstop until 9 30 at night. I could put a law on the books. I was the chairman of the telecommunications committee. To senator gains his point about the primitive nature i also knew are putting into hundred megahertz spectrum so that we could create the 3rd 4th, 5th command six cell phone, go digital and the only have one of the pocket. That is how quickly it all changed. We were building in anticipatory Consumer Protection. When people hold this in their pocket right now and it starts people say, its , probably somebody i know. I think ill take the call on my wireless device. Why . Because the protection and i law in 19 a one are very high for wireless devices. It is probably somebody you know. When the phone is ringing on the night, on the landline phone, people look at it almost terrorized. It could be somebody i dont know. Thats the truth. Should we change the laws to make it easier to call people on the wireless devices . I dont think so. It is personal. How much of an intrusion would that be to have that phone going off all day long and what happens of course, these firms have moved overseas, but who is paying them . People in america. There paying people in india to harass people. We should figure out how to make the laws tougher these overseas calls are harder to make. , and i didnt work for the National Consumer law center , so maybe i was affected by i was thereophy the first year the Consumer Sector was established. Can you talk a little bit about this concept of consent and whether or not it might be possible to have the information come in by email . And the consumer be able to respond by emails rather than having the phone be ringing, the wireless or home phone. Are there ways of dealing with this issue that are much less intrusive on the consumer in our country . Yes, there are. I think the first point really needs to be made that there is a not not a constitutional right to make robo calls. Before the Automated Systems developed, businesses communicated quite well with their customers through manual dial calls or emails, or in the olden days, snail mail. I remember getting calls for my Credit Card Company where i actually had a person on the line who said, there is suspicious activity. Is this really your credit card use . That is no reason that cannot be used when the business is not sure about who actually has consented, and currently owns the phone. Let me ask you. Year, talking about last a relaxation of the laws in terms of being able to call people who have debts. Loans, theretudent are 40 million in america now. It is easier to harass them by phone. ,an you each talk about that and what might be better ways for people to be communicated with who have debts in our country . Again, i think at the beginning when people sign up in asbt, to get their opt part of the transaction and again, i will agree that we could make that defense, so i am not here to defend. Tightening up a better line of defense, but i would point out it is the exceptions that i and nervous about. When we went up to the seventh circuit it was clear because we had no exceptions. The political free speech against personal privacy, two very important constitutional rights, and we won based on the fact it was not limiting free speech. There is plenty of opportunities to speak, just not by ringing the phone. The careful of the difference between the defensive side. Do not make exceptions because you have suddenly picked winners and losers, and the court will not allow the limitations on free speech. Can i ask misunderstood respond . Saunders to respond . Will assist them in paying back the debt is somewhat i think the record is full of examples of both consumers who go the debt and consumers who do not own the debt being called numerous times, robo called, which is harassing and abusive. It is also not particularly , and not in furtherance of good Public Policy to bother people into paying a debt. Act, aast years budget provision snuck into a must pass piece of legislation that makes it much more easy for debt ,ollectors to call consumers students, 40 Million Students who own who oh student loans. Student loans. I ask unanimous consent, mr. Chairman, to add two records to the record two letters to the record. Whofrom 16 consumer groups have written in support of a hangup act. Without objection. We thank you all for being here today. Let me just ask one last question, and this kind of gets at the point of the regulatory bodies. Somenk you indicated that do not have the same view as the sec when it comes to communicating with people via cell phone. Have other regulators seen benefits and communicating with consumers via mobile phone or text message . The Consumer Financial protection board has an Early Intervention role that the federal commission,rance the Consumer ProductSafety Commission of all discussed the benefits of outbound communication most by call and text. There are state laws that require outbound communication as they see the value in that. For example, with utilities. I just want to make one final point. Nobody is proposing that consumers should not have the right to stop unwanted calls at any point. Callwith the obama robo carveout that was mentioned a few times that passed in the rulesthe secs proposed is that the caller can demand the caller stop calling. I also want to be very clear, i strong you have heard bipartisan interest in ensuring that consumers are protected from harassing robo calls. The problem we have is the tcpa is no longer working as well as it should. All of us are plagued by unwanted calls, even on our cell phones, which is the foyt the point i think ms. Saunders was getting at. At the same time, you have legitimate Companies Facing lawsuits. What this cries out for is a balanced solution. Your input today and testimony i think has been very helpful in elevating these issues and getting the discussion. Frankly, for that matter i thought hearing some common ,round when it comes to the bad the harassing, the bad actors and the good actors, and perhaps we will be able to find a way to come up with some solutions that reflect that common ground. I want to thank you all very much for being here. Is it possible i could ask one more question . I kind of expected that would happen. One more question. I knowpreciate that, and it is an unwanted intrusion. I thank you. Surfacers transportation bill, the fast act included a Provision Requiring the irs to hire private debt collectors to. Ollect certain unpaid taxes that means the irs is going to be hiring many people to go after those who may be unable to pay their taxes. This provision, coupled with the tcpa carveout in the budget deal will open the floodgates to private debt collectors robo calling and texting millions of americans. The enactment of the two provisions coincide with the collection debt scams as a serious problem costing americans millions of dollars. Last year, bogus tax scams list of topbbs scams, with over 32 about phony and phony tax and that collectors. Attorney general, will these two changes on robo calls and rowboat text revisions make it harder for consumers to protect themselves from fraudulent tax and debt collectors . There is no question looking at those two coupled together, or was this interest. Like the chairman said, it was put into the must pass budget. I think this idea of making the carveout exception really puts consumers at risk as we have told people, the irs will not call you. Do not worry if you do get the call. This is not going to be a very effective tool to try to go after people other than the harassment, if that is supposed to get things done. I would leave it that again this carveout the exception is going to make the constitutional question about whether the federal government has made winners and losers in an area which is really covered with free speech, you may have really killed the whole tcpa carveout. , ashey become electronic debt collectors. Do you agree with the attorney general . Yes, i do. I appreciated, mr. Chairman, very much. You for very much thank being here, taking the time, and responding to our questions. We will keep the hearing record open for two weeks during which senators are asked to submit any questions for the record. We would ask all of you if you could submit your written answers to the committee as soon as possible. Thank you all for being here. This meeting is adjourned. Q a,ss sunday night on vanity fair columnist Michael Kinsley talks about his new book, old age, a beginners guide on living with parkinsons disease. Parkinsons is a plain disease or that was a nonsensical question, but i really meant obviously was thinking is it going to affect my thinking, and thinking is how i earn a living so that became pretty important. Neurologist what is going to happen and he says, he was trying to tell me it was not such a big deal. Edge,d, you may lose your as if that was just nothing. And i thought, my edge is how i earn a living. It is why i have my friends. Maybe why i have my wife. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern and pacific. The senate this week approved emergency funding in response to the zika virus. The measure was attached to a spending bill for transportation, housing, military construction, and the v. A. Patty murray sponsored the measure. There was another measure offered by marco rubio that failed. Here are their remarks from the senate floor earlier this week. Murray as a mother and grandmother, i know that one of the most frightening questions and expectant parent has to ask their doctor is, is the baby safe . Too many parents are asking that question right now because of the zika virus. There are now more than 1200 reported cases