Transcripts For CSPAN Hearing Examines Law Enforcement Challenges 20170521

Order. The subcommittee welcomes everyone to todays. Challenges faced in Law Enforcement in the 21st century. I will have an Opening Statement, a quick personal indulgence. I would ask everyone, remember our friend tom tellis from north carolina. And i want to thank chairman goodlatte for this hearing. We need to honor our Law Enforcement officers. Thank you to our witnesses for being here. We have chuck canterbury, president. From the National Fraternal order of police. Alonzo thompson from spartanburg, South Carolina. Chief art acevedo. Is that close . Forgive me, i am from South Carolina. I may get it wrong before you get it right again. From the great city of houston, texas. You are lawenforcement officers across the nation that dedicate your lives to the precept of our country. Which is, respect for and adherence to the rule of law. I know every member of the subcommittee would have their own personal story of how officers have impacted their lives and their own personal testimony for the respect they have for the women and men of Law Enforcement. Lives and theirl testimony for the respect they have for the women and men of Law Enforcement. I was also preparing for this hearing. To an officer in greenville, South Carolina by the name of alan jacobs. Time last year, he learned he would be a father again. But this time it would be different. He had time two boys. This time he would be the father of a little girl. Him very wellred to be a father. He was an outstanding student, great athlete. He put that athleticism and intelligence to work for our country in the army. He was deployed to iraq for 15 months and went to baghdad because he understood all people want to live in a peaceful, secure environment. After iraq, alan was flown to haiti, to help them in the aftermath of their crisis. But fatherhood tugged on him and he went back to South Carolina. His desire to work serve and protect remains. He pursued that calling with the vigor, strength, and perfectionism that defined every other asset of his life. Whether it was on swat team, as a patrol officer, he would stop his patrol car from time to time , carried a basketball in the trunk, would go down to play basketball with the kids that could use a father figure like the one he was providing to his own boys. To his daughter. I learned all of this about him in a telephone call i had with his mother two days before his funeral. Iraq andthe survived boot camp and Police Officer training. He could not and did not survive an encounter with a teenage gang member who would just been released from jail. He never even had a chance to on holster his service weapon. Protect. Fend, he was ambushed. Gave all of us in South Carolina an opportunity to reflect not only on what his , and the life of the jason callinge also lost for backup from one of his fellow officers. Start. Any other of the officers who gave the most precious thing they had to give us the most precious thing we have, which is life. Lawenforcement officers are willing to do what most of us are not willing to do. To interact with people most of us are not willing to interact with. Theyre willing to miss things in life most of us are not willing to miss. So today we are not only here to honor you, but to listen and memorialize those officers who lost their lives in the line of duty. But also, to respect and pay honor to those who are still with us. For beingthank you here. I am most interested in how we can help you do your jobs. Challenges and our criminal Justice System. I want a system that is not only respected, but worthy of respect. There is not a system we have in this country that cannot be improved. I am more than willing to hear ideas on how to improve. There is Something Different about Law Enforcement officers. That as a sight of society, then not only do they wear uniform and a badge, they serve symbolically as a line between law and order and those folks without a conscience. If we lose sight of that, were in trouble as a republic. Witnesses, i look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your courtesy thank to the witnesses, you for your courtesy, as well. I thank you for recognizing or accepting my apologies for my delay. Hearinga very important. As a german indicated, it is important we try to help each other. Law enforcement and community. Timnt to acknowledge mcconnell, chief alonzo thompson, chief canterbury, and chief acevedo. We knowledge in this week those who live and those who have fallen. We need to ensure that those who live recognize we do not want to see anymore tragedies or families not seeing their loved ones come home. I want to acknowledge clinton executed ando was died on 4 3 17. Ther died on diedtive jerry walker january 2017. And five officers among others in dallas who died july 2016. Brent thompson, michael smith, ahrens,orporal lorne officer patrick and michael kohl. I stood with those family members and we will never forget. It is important to seek strategies for Law Enforcement in order to increase Police Safety nationwide and prevent the use of legal force lethal force. Were going to make sure we look at both sides of the issues. We want to hear from you about Building Trust and respect. We want to understand what has been used by many as police militarization, or how we can balance protection of the community with the various assets that you utilize. The needs for responsible and comprehensive data. Data is the science of police work. And to be able to deal with the question of lethal force to protect your lives and the lives of the community. Democracy,o keep our there must be one commandment, thou shalt not ration justice. I look forward to hearing from you as well. In keeping in line with this idea of justice. I want to make a point i have made before. This full committee, were the subcommittee on crime. Subcommitteeary, led by our esteemed senator, senator lindsey graham, we must have a full investigation and demand an investigation of the president , attorney general, and Top White House aides. Democrats on the oversight and Judiciary Committee are asking for all memorandums that deal with the ending of the tenure of director comey and dispels the allegations the president asked director comey to end the Flynn Investigation and certainly the release of classified information released but the president can release classified information, and at what jeopardy have they put assets and allies in . Continuing failer of failure of House Republicans will cause damage to credibility and integrity of our community and the house of representatives. We have a solemn obligation under the constitution to act as a check on the executive branch and hold President Trump accountable. Again, not as democrats and republicans, but as americans. It is time we Work Together to be able to find the truth. Obviously, the truth will be our guide. I thank you for your service and commitment to law and order and thehe constitution, and for service we will never be able to thank you for, as you protect the american people. I thank you very much. I yield back to read yelled back. Mr. Gowdy we have a distinguished panel. Please rise and raise your right hand. You swear the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god. I will introduce you and then recognize you individually for your Opening Statement. I will tell you on the front end, all members have access to your Opening Statements. If i can get you to summarize it, get to salient points within , itfiveminute time period would allow for more time for questions. Sheriff mcdonnell was the sheriff of los angeles county, california. Our second witness is chief alonzo thompson. He is not just the chief, to me he is the director of Public Safety. The district i represent is incredibly well respected and well regarded, in my hometown. Our third witness is chuck canterbury, the president of the order of police. And we can introduce our fourth witness. Our fourth witness is no stranger to Law Enforcement and , he hasief art acevedo california to texas. More recently in the city of austin. He now serves as chief of police in houston, texas. I say that we have a very collaborative ethic on Law Enforcement. I am pleased to say the chief works with all of our Law Enforcement agencies from federal to local to ensure the travels of safe those that come to city our great come to visit our great city. I would like to welcome family members. I want to a knowledge them as well. I yield back to the chairman. And the Ranking Member that has come, mr. Conyers. Mr. Gowdy your Opening Statement. Chairman gowdy, thank you for inviting me to testify this morning on behalf of the sheriffs of america and sheriffs association. As a sheriff of the largest county in the u. S. And the peace officer for more than 35 years, it is an honor to represent the sheriffs sworn to protect people across our great nation. Policing in america has never been more complex. We are First Responders to the greatest social challenges. Is their growing opioid epidemic, cyber terrorism, homegrown extremism and Mental Illness, these of the 21st century challenges we should and must seek together. I have testimony that expands on what i can share here. It is available on the website. I will touch briefly on topics. Cyber attack should make it Crystal Clear just how vulnerable we are and the potential scale such an attack can have. These lurk just below the surface of todays news headlines. They become known only after the imminent attack is made. Attacks of government and bureaucratic salute institutions. There is not a Sheriffs Department in the nation that is immune to Mental Illness and drug addiction. Theinstitutionalization of mentally ill that occurred in the 1950s and 1960s has turned our jails into the fact of Mental Health stations. 70 of the inmates processed into our jails report a medical or Mental Illness. One third of my jail population suffers from a serious Mental Health issue. Ofany given day, upwards 5000 inmates need treatment for their illness. That is forecasted to double over the next 10 years. L a county will need to invest more than 2. 2 billion in net Treatment Facility that can provide Mental Health services for this population, which has no worlds to go. Los angeles county jail, along with Rikers Island in new york cook island in chicago, are the top mental care providers in the nation. This is a failure of our criminal Justice System. There are times when jail is the best and most appropriate option. But the jail is frequently not the best solution. As a nation we have a critical need and moral obligation to build capacity Treatment Options in our communities. We can support Strategic Partnerships with agencies to provide the wrap around Treatment Services to stabilize these individuals and keep them out of our jail system. We have a professional obligation to provide training for officers. Of home too much is expected. We are always facing the unknown, frequently a situation where there asked to take on the role of a Mental Health professional. Alone, angeles county 911 calls involving people with Mental Illness have grown 55 since 2010. We need to find and provide crisis intervention training to all First Responders, both Law Enforcement and fire personnel. Lets Work Together for a nationwide expansion of successful programs, teaming up Mental Health professionals with Law Enforcement officers to intercept the First Responder team. We have had these teams since the 1990s. Many have variations of this program, which are highly successful but seriously overworked and understaffed. Many cities and counties cannot provide the service 24 7. In many places it is difficult to respond in a timely manner. In our experience, when a team is called to a scene, we have the ability to divert the individual away from the criminal Justice System and into proper facilities in 99 of encounters. I would like to think congress for passing an initiative that gives funding to divert those dealing with Mental Illness away from county jails. We should also look at mental notth courts, to help those go to jail or prison. We need to have a conversation about what to do with those suffering from Mental Illness to do end up in our jails and prisons. We can agree that not everyone for suffering from Mental Illness can be diverted. Some are classified as a harm to themselves or others will be placed in jails. We need to provide the most humane and modern setting so they can receive treatment and help they need. We look forward to continuing a dialogue and working with you. We cannot be successful unless we as a nation are committed to finding solutions. I think the chairman for his commitment to collaboration and willingness to engage Law Enforcement on these issues that are so critical to all of us. Mr. Gowdy chief thompson. Good morning. Mr. Chairman and the judiciary subcommittee on crime, terrorism, Homeland Security, and investigation. I am pleased to address you. Challenges facing Law Enforcement in the 21st century are numerous and varied. Terrorism, gangs, illegal narcotics, gun violence, cybercrime, social media, behavioral health, hold significant challenges to Law Enforcement at all levels. This is not an allinclusive list by any means. In addition to those concerns, there are three pressing matters demanding our immediate attention. Police relations, recruitment and retention, and budgetary restraints. Our ability and capacity to respond appropriately and effectively to those concerns are dependent upon how we manage those three foundational issues. Publicized Police Contacts have gotten the attention of our citizens. Ever, questions about police accountability, police training, and culture are commonplace. Intense of intent scrutiny, improved relations is paramount. Even agencies such as my own that have traditionally focused on Community Engagement must keep the strengthening those relationships and build new ones. We will not be as responsive or successful without strong collaborative partnerships. For baby boomers retiring and tricking applicant pools, recruitment and retention is struggling. The dangers of the profession, prevent some from pursueg, while others more lucrative and safer career fields. Retention has been negatively affected by tightening budgets that result in stagnant wages, reduced employee benefits, and limited performancebased incentives. This segues into the third and final challenge i wish to share with you, budgetary restraints. Whereate where many we have economic woes and difficult decisions about budgets, Many Police Departments are underfunded. It is difficult to compete with Corporate America for qualified applicants and retain experienced personnel. We are facing the growing necessity of advanced technology. Lessxample, body cameras, than lethal weapons, and communication systems. Some amount to Unfunded Mandates. In the 21st Century Policing environment, these are not niceties, they are necessities. For instance, many Law Enforcement agencies committed to the quick officers with body cameras, which expanded opportunities to catch more critical policecitizen encounters. But it comes with a cost. Additional funding from governmental sources will be needed not just for equipment, but for training to enhance the diversity consciousness of Law Enforcement specialists such as deescalation, use of force, and subject matters deemed necessary. All those needs may vary. The challenge is the same. In conclusion, i reiterate these issues must be immediately addressed. Enhancing Community Relations is fundamental to gathering information, and combating crime and terrorism. Communitydes Building Partnerships to help solve problems. And retaining Law Enforcement levels will ensure we have a highly trained and experienced workforce to provide policerelated services and conduct complex investigations, whether they involve terrorism, criminal activity, or a nexus between the two. We need to handle issues as efficiently as possible and give us the time we need to look forward into what the future anticipates to prepare for new crime trends and emerging opportunities. I appreciate the opportunity to share my views on the challenges facing Law Enforcement in the 21st century. I thank you very much for your time. Mr. Gowdy thank you, mr. Chief. Mr. Canterbury. Mr. Canterbury thank you, mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the subcommittee. 330,000e representing members of our Law Enforcement community. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for having this hearing at this opportune time, with the National Police week just concluding. My numbers are concerned about their safety. According to a recent after fbi report analyzing cases in which officers were shot and killed, 20 of the assailants were motivated by hatred for police, or for socialpolitical reasons. Others were just out to get justice and told her friends and or use social media to communicate their intent to hurt Law Enforcement officers. They have long argued that hateful vitriol, amplified social media is leading to violence directed at Law Enforcement officers. This report by the fbi bears that out. It has changed in the past few years. The respect we once had in our communities and amongst our leadership has been diminished. Showsnt gallup poll had a 77 rs Approval Rating in the country. Every american that looks at a Law Enforcement officer should look at him as someone that is there to defend the right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Excessive force and Police Brutality have become common terms. This false narrative is recycled in the news, the militarization of Law Enforcement. Mr. Chairman, i submit it is more modernizing. The Previous Administration ignored the input of Law Enforcement communities and put broad restrictions. The program crated by president clinton, basic equipment items were provided to departments that could not afford those. There was a huge reaction to negative Media Coverage of the fake militarization narrative. 033 program was singled out for specific criticism. But the executive order order had new prohibitions and restrictions on equipment throughout the federal government, including the doj and Homeland Security. I do not need to point out that the poet pulse nightclub shooting and San Bernardino equipmentmuch of that was to protect Police Officers lives and citizens lives. These are demilitarized vehicles. We are trying to restore the integrity of these programs. We urge this community to the protecting lives with surplus equipment act. It is not just limited to equipment. Of communityation policing Services Needs to be funded fully, as it has been in the past years. Theave less police on streets and recruitment and retention is one of the Biggest Challenges facing Law Enforcement in the 21st century. There are less men and women policing and Violent Crime is on the rise in many of our cities. For this reason i urge the subcommittee to support fully funding the program and the edward burns grant program. These have been a godsend to local Law Enforcement in these challenging economic times. Stan local officers cannot perform their duties without these extra funds. These have been a godsendi spoks facing our profession as a whole. Lawenforcement officers are specter to be mentally healthy and resilient. Situations wend must respond to take a toll on the Mental Health of an officer. Officers who have survived a shooting, or things like the attacks in dallas and baton rouge, or responded to sandy hook or the pulse nightclub may need to be dealing with these experiences. That is why we are pleased that senator donnellys bill passed in the senate yesterday. They helped craft that legislation, as well as hr 2228. This bill will allow the attorney general to collect information about the Mental Health program provided to officers, and will expand officer wellness. During National Police week where we honor to hundred 34 american heroes who away last year, this was a very appropriate time for congress to take up these issues. Mr. Chairman, i think you for the opportunity to be here today. As of last night, we lost our 18th officer by gunfire, which put us at 6 higher than the rate last year. Today, we have had 95 officer shot in the line of duty. 18 have perished. Mr. Gowdy thank you, mr. Canterbury. Chief acevedo . Thank you for inviting me to testify today. Im the chief of police for the city of houston, the fourthlargest city in the nation and our fastest growing. I am the first Vice President of this organization, representing the 69th largest lawenforcement agency in the u. S. And 31al of 34 years of Law Enforcement makeience, Community Bonds lawenforcement successful and community safe. It enables police to overcome what i consider our biggest challenge today. Police departments must engage all members of the community. Done correctly, it builds trust. When something goes wrong, which is inevitable, in a mission as large as ours, we can take positive action to correct inefficiencies. One challenges Building Trust, with immigration enforcement. We have opened a Law Enforcement open to the perception of being immigration agents. Theeen is that it hurts bonds of trust we have built over the many years. Immigration enforcement is a responsibility that should not be delegated to Police Departments. They fear Police Officers. Then they stop reporting crimes are coming forward as victims. It allows criminal conduct to go unchecked, making the entire community unsafe. Engagement must include everyone if we want to be successful. We urge the congress to enact comprehensive Immigration Reform once and for all. Starting in arizona and moving on to texas. Retention, hed nailed it after the dallas tragedy when he called on young men and women in that of protesting, to put down the signs and come in and sign up, make a difference, join the Police Department, join us and see that we can and will continue to make a difference. 334 s to his call, a increase occurred in the city of dallas. Areest cities like houston cashstrapped and in constant battle for staffing and resources. We are hundreds of officers short as mayor turner has stated time and again. Adding more Unfunded Mandates such as immigration does not help. We need to maintain funding. One of the things we hope, as my colleagues said, we continue to have full funding. Federally funded grants are key. And also, asset forfeiture. They are taken from criminals, syndicates, drug traffics traffickers, is money let back into crimefighting and keeping communities safe. Having said that, we should not allow departments to take money from people unless there is criminal predicate and taking it from crooks and not hardworking americans. Consent decrees, while they have a good value, we hope as we move forward that will be the hammer left as a last resort. And that we move toward a variety of agreements. While most officers serve with sensitivity and respect, it can be violent and ugly. There are times when we do not do the right thing. We have to maintain the trust of the folks that we serve. We believe collaborative approaches with the department has become a Cottage Industry. Millions that should be spent on training, equipment, accountability at the local level and placed at the hands of the mayors, councils and community, go wasted and are given to federal monitors. It has become a Cottage Industry. We need strong oversight, we support strong oversight. But we want to be smart and not waste of those precious dollars. This really is the most important thing we can do. I would urge members of congress to work on issues to help build , bridges of trust, and not turn those bridges. Thank you. Mr. Gowdy thank you, chief. I apologize in advance if i leave after my question. I have a meeting at 11 00 that i have to chair. I will be her long enough to ask questions. Thank you for your testimony. If i could go to sheriff mcdonnell and chief thompson first. Same question. Bodyad both mentioned the cameras. Both of theuch upon positives and concerns a local Police Department has when you are considering whether to go toward body cameras. Mr. Mcdonnell a number of issues need to be addressed when a department is looking at body worn cameras. It is not only the hardware, the cheapest part of the equation, but everything behind that. That includes the ability to retain on a cloud or server the video. There is tremendous amount of video rolling all the time. Behind that again, the policies in place and agreements with the da and others as to when you can release the footage and when you are going to hold it as part of an investigation. That needs to be covered up front with the publics expectations and realistic. The personnelide, costs. The amount of discovery that is created as a result of having the cameras and footage is an inordinate burden on an organization that they do not already have in place the personnel who are trained and certified to be able to go in and identify the appropriate disclose,footage to and in cases where they need to be able to pixelate uninvolved third parties for their own protection to do that, as well. You can imagine a scene where there is a backup that goes out and 20 deputies respond, each with body cameras rolling. They have to go through whatever the workload is times 20 to deal with that. That is a burden that has not been addressed enough. Expense, onendous top of the hardware and things people are aware of on the surface. Thank you very much, chief thompson. Mr. Thompson i concur with everything you mentioned. , i referrednal cost to in my remarks earlier. Required,the upgrades pose a hardship on local municipalities. In addition to that, i am a strong proponent of body worn cameras. Panacea. Not a it does not solve all the problems. But it is definitely a tool that is needed. Because of the costs involved, it has been cost prohibitive for agencies to acquire them. Mr. Gowdy mr. Canterbury, i will go to next, if i can. I happen to be part of an institution, we get excited when we get hires, which does not happen often. There are things about head lice and ebola virus. You mentioned police in our country, 77 public support, which i think is tremendous. You also indicated 28 of the murders of Police Officers around the country are motivated by people who have a hatred of Police Officers or a political point of view, which allows them to justify shooting a Police Officer, ambushing he or she. It is incredible, it certainly happens. Are there any steps you would that we as a society can change the public hostility that some people in our country have toward Law Enforcement . Or is it just an element you will always look with live with and have to protect yourself against . There are just bad people. Years the past 35 or 40 Law Enforcement is the only form of government that many local governments have as a resource to go into economically depressed areas. We believe that if there is not a holistic approach to Building Trust in communities with every aspect of government, Law Enforcement cannot be sent into a neighborhood to clean the neighborhood up. Because if you do not attack the underlying root problem of poverty, youre never going to break that cycle. Mosby forget that marilyn asked for highintensity patrols in the area where freddie gray was killed, or died. It was the only arm of government the Baltimore City officials had to work in the neighborhood. If there is not a total holistic approach with community activist, schools, then were never going to address the problem, especially in economically depressed areas. To be those issues have attacked before we can see improvement. Gentlemen, yields back. I recognize the man from michigan, mr. Conyers. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I have never been on a panel this much police and Law Enforcement leadership at one time. I am going to go to the heart of thatlations with police have been so important to me all my life. And that is, the importance of us improving the relationship between the africanamerican and other minority communities, and yourselves and your offices. This has been an ongoing problem. I support you on the funding, i support you support your concepts. But there is a certain element in Law Enforcement that is racial. It is antidiversity. Lets speak as honestly as you can for a few minutes about that part of your relationship. You cannot build trust if there are glaring instances of police disrespect for the minorities and communities. There has been a long history of that. Were still coming out of racism in our society. Law enforcement, it becomes glaring. I would like to ask the National President of the fraternal order of police to lead off this discussion. I hope all of you will join in with your honest opinions. Whendo not know how and that personal bias will be gone in this country. Career in30 plus year Law Enforcement, i have never been taught that racial profiling was a legitimate police practice. I have never been taught that anybody of color should be arrested at a higher rate. I have never been taught that everybody should not be treated fairly, equally in this country. Is we do recognize their implicit bias. And there are individual officers that may have those biases. Make sure those officers are rooted out and put out of this career field. But again, it cannot be the first call of a politician when a white officer arrests somebody of color. First never just be the thing we hear from social media. Freddie gray for instance, there were three africanamerican officers involved in three white officers involved. To say the three africanamerican officers committed an act because of color is ludicrous. We believe, working together with communities, we can build that trust. But we cannot be the answer to that area we cannot go into the inner city as Law Enforcement and fix the problems unless we attack the underlying problems of poverty. Agree with you, there are a lot of economic and cultural considerations involved in this part of our discussion. But i want to see, and i am watching carefully, Police Systems across this country, to that everybody is doing as much as we can to root out some of these bad apples. There are only a few. But it only takes one to really create a very negative view. Who wealthier would like to make a comment . Sir. Ank you, thank you for the opportunity. When you look at where we are in america today, i believe we have come a long way. There is room for improvement. Police are called to situations that are out of control. Situations are often improved by fueled by emotions, drugs, alcohol. Is the thirdf it rail of american policing, if you will. We look at what happened recently over our history in this country. The answers are to continue to talk about it. People are afraid to talk about race. Unless we engage in talk openly and honestly about it, we will not come to a place where we are proud of what we are doing. There are 18,000 Police Departments and our nation. We are working to be able to raise the bar for every arertment in america so we comfortable that anybody that goes out there in the field represents a profession and does so in a professional way. I believe we are dealing with issues of misconduct to try to be able to get at the root of that. We are separating people from employment that are doing it the wrong way. Look at the amount of police in this country, it is of our population that is charged with Public Safety for the remainder. We cannot do that on our own. We have to work with the communities we are privileged to serve in a way that is positive, that we are on the same team. Not only the race issue, but police go where crime is. That is driven by poverty, lack of opportunity, lack of education, and other societal that police, inserted into a situation that is volatile and highly charged, police often get the blame for whatever the underlying reason was. It is beyond our control to affect that at the root. A big step is focusing on youth programs. That is not our core Police Mission but one we have taken on, because we see the need to do that. At ancan bridge the gap early age and help kids after school have a safe environment, we do that in a lay with the sheriffs Youth Foundation to make sure they do their homework, then they are allowed to do after school activities, sports, work on the computers. That is where we have to begin to look for the future, to be able to work with kids at their earliest opportunity. If we do not do anything more today with you four, to me the most important thing is that you take back the message that there are people like myself working in different capacities long before i came to congress, in race relations. Please racial tensions are factors that are not solely about police and the black community. They come from these related concerns of poverty, otheroyment, and educational disadvantages. You take make sure this back with you. Because you affect some of those people who may be thinking they can get out of line. Is, improvingern with all thes, other folks that may be considered minorities in our community. Who wants the last word . We are three minutes over, but if you want to take a very stab at answering that question, it is important for us to go four minutes. Thank you. It is so important that we engage our community to a nonconfrontational time to break down barriers and form relationships. Relationships translate into collaborative partnerships. It starts with hiring the right people, having a workforce representative of the community it serves. I am proud of the fact that in my area, the Service Population is 70 white, 30 nonwhite, and our department reflects that same level of diversity. To reflect that it must be intentional. There are qualified applicants of all races, ethnicities, and genders. But you have to go where they are and attract them into your agency. Citizensponsive to the in an ethical way, that draws people to you and helps build public trust and confidence you are looking for. Rewarding the behavior that is desired is key. Addressing that is appropriate is important as well. Youuch of what we can do, lay the groundwork before that, during those noncontentious times. If you go online and see spartanburg and a new light, you see one of our latest initiatives where we brought people together. No matter what side of the tracks you are on, where one table, one voice, working on a project to talk and Start Building relationships and bridging gaps. It is evidence of what we can do when we come together with unity and purpose. Thanks, mr. Chairman. We recognize mr. Johnson. Thank you for your testimony and faithful service. I am the son of a First Responder. Firefighter, a third degree burns, permanently disabled. I grew up at the Fire Training academy. I have tremendous respect for what you do and the dangers you face. Mr. Canterbury, i agree with your need to modernize Law Enforcement. Use terms like militarize do not understand the real challenges you face. Language is important and i appreciate you making the distinction. Our great tragedy in baton rouge caught this caught the attention of my stay, louisiana. We have the reputation of being the most dangerous state for Law Enforcement. I wish we could do something about that. Homeland security renewed a bulletin that warned of dangers of homegrown terrorists. They called a threat environment and our country one of the most serious since the 9 11 attacks. You agree weon, do will see an increase in smaller, more localized terrorist attacks . Absolutely. A social media has allowed terrorist organizations over there to influence Young Americans in the united states. They have glamorized that type of terrorism. Yes, i served on the Homeland Security Advisory Council both for president obama and president bush. It has always been a major concern and will continue to be. Were going to see an uptick in a lone wolfstyle and american attackers that have never been to that part of the world, but have been energized by social media and those markets. Recognizing that to be the case, we all feel the burden of it and want to address that threat. The followup question, to adequately prepare and respond to local terrorist attacks popping up, do you think there are improvements and reforms that could better apply the Lessons Learned . In terms of coordination among various First Responders . From themmunications federal levels of state and local have greatly improved since 9 11. But it continues to get better. A radio do not have system in this country. We are closer than we were. When i testified in 2003 after 9 11 the importance of that, the contracts for building that in 2017. It must continue, it needs to be both ways. In needs to be fully funded. And Fusion Centers need to be fully funded. Appreciate your work in that arena. This question could be for any of our distinguished panel members. The Police Chiefs and sheriffs in louisiana have growing becauseand challenges the challenges are going up and the resources are going down. Can you elaborate so we have it on record about the 1033 program and how it has proven to be a critical source for your county . Program is not the problem. It is about proper training, proper policy, proper use. When came out, people said we were using these in iraq. Austind not use it in because it was not good on tight streets. There is flooding and a lot of rural counties. In houston, we have a problem with flooding. It is not the equipment, it is the policy implemented and its use. ,e have helmets, binoculars office equipment, helicopters. Equipment, offenses it is all defensive, about protecting the american people. Program think the 1033 has been destroyed by any means. Anybody else . The 1033 program, i would ask reconsider be given to look at the needs of local police. When you see any of these activities should a situations, terrorist situations on our home soil, who gets the call . People called 911 and local police respond. If they are showing up in a black and white with their side arm and thats all they have, their at a tremendous disadvantage. They are going to put themselves in a situation where they will be hurt or killed and not be able to accomplish the mission of rescuing people. Having the equipment we have been able to get through the 1033 program, we have been able to go into a hot zone, to stop the shooting, extract people at people medicalet attention. Without the tools necessary for the exception, we dont use them everyday, and as the chief mentioned, its about leadership and accountability and using the right tools at the right time. Not using them for situations where we have seen in our recent past that people can cite and say that they are not intended for that. Theyre not. Theyre intended to put our officers and deputies in a position between danger and the public and to be able to do hot zone extractions of citizens to get them out and get them help stop the threat. Thank you for that. I want to close by saying this is not a feelgood exercise. We greatly value your input. I know there is a commitment to the people on the subcommittee and the full committee to work toward the reforms. Thank you for what you do. I now recognize the lady from texas. Thank you very much. I was happy to yield to my Ranking Member, mr. Conyers, and i want to take note of the fact that you are member and congressman is very active full member of the committee and was here at the beginning. I think her for her service to acknowledge congressman deutsch and his presence here today and acknowledge congressman richman presence here today and the subcommittee for our members. We are delighted to have you here. Also to take note of the fact that we are interested in working together. I want to start with mr. Canterbury. Thank you for the representation of 300,000, to you in your collective membership, let me continue to offer my acknowledgment of your service and as well sympathy for the loss of their families. In my past life i served as a Municipal Court judge and interacted with citizens and officers on a regular basis. As i sometimes say, not necessarily clothed in their but in undercover closing othing. I we know the work that is done and we thank you. I want to follow the route line of questioning of my Ranking Member to say that we have to meet each other halfway. There is no doubt that the walter scott case on the jordan evans case, these are very conspicuous cases that loom large in the psyche of americans so matter what the relationship i do not know if they will work with us, as you will know that we are working on a trust and integrity bill that i believe is a hand of friendship. It also includes the collection of data. That is numbers. You just cited the fbi report, but i viewed it as science that helps trace us toward providing the funding youre interested in. I was a great supporter of the cops on the beat program. Grants like you said help as much as possible. Which you comment would you comment very briefly because i want to get to it the share for him to further emphasize some of the tactics we have used in houston, and i want to thank the mayor for emphasizing terms of Community Outreach who you have engaged in. If youd also answer the question, just this past monday , secretary kelly, and i know that you have gotten this notice in working with our joint terrorism, indicated that we may be in one of the most serious terrorist threat atmosphere s since 9 11. This falls to local police what kind of resources and what you need dealing with that question. Sheriff, will you take hold of this question please, so i dont have to say it again. Im interested in your comments about Mental Health. Answer the question about using some of these people came to you are not criminals. They need Mental Health help. Thank you. Like to lead off by saying i think the difference in the walter scott case versus some of the other cases is the city of charleston handled the entire investigation in the prework that thompson was talking about in the city of charleston. If you look at the Church Shooting as well, im a proud south carolinian, we did not go to the streets and ryan in South Carolina. We walked arm in arm on king street in charleston and demanded an end to the violence. It is the prework that happen ed there. On a National Level we have always been committed to data gathering. What we also like to see is mandatory collection of Police Officers as well so that we can demonstrate as a total number. Its voluntary reporting currently. Yes, we would work with you in any way possible to increase the amount of data, Scientific Data is a basis for asset allocation, policing strategies. On the other side, we also want to collect the data on the number of Police Officers being assaulted. I will take up on that offer. Thank you. Good morning again. We are focused on building relationships, Building Trust. Mayor turner sets the tone and we follow, including yourself in the Police Department. We do not paint people with broad brushes. Black lives matter, some people paint them with broad brushes and we know some of those are people who just want to see good policing. What we are doing in houston is engaging one another, building when some are trying to marginalize immigrants and paint them as a bunch of thugs and rapists and drug dealers, were painting them as what they are. That is, day laborers, cooks, nannies and people building our homes and bridges and roadways. I think we need to put down our brushes and Start Talking to each other instead of yelling at each other and actually, instead of running away from activists, run towards them. Because of that, we have built trust. We call each other on the carpet where we need to. Honest, open, blunt but respectful discussions. Thank you. On the issue of Mental Health, i have on a daily basis 17,000 inmates in our custody in l. A. County jail system. Of that number, 4000 or 5000 are seriously mentally ill. If you were to look at the remainder of them on issues that like ptsd, the number would be around 90 . We have a population that is very challenged, they need different care than traditionally we have been used to providing. Many folks are in custody because her acting out on their Mental Illness. Theres a cycle of dysfunction that continues. They come into the custody, treated, we try to stabilize them on medication and be able to get them functioning only to be released from the system back on to the street. Many are homeless. They go back to skid row or living under a bridge or freeway. They reoffend and find themselves back in custody. A very expensive and inhumane cycle of dysfunction that we need to break. What we need is additional funding a focus on communitybased Mental Health care and treatment to provide alternatives to incarceration for people who can be better treated outside in a medical setting than in a custody environment. I would just briefly added that we have a lot of veterans with ptsd. We have citizens like my son who has autism. We are finding more and more situations where the actions, although they may pay to be criminal in nature would be better served if we were to defer or get the people the help they need. At some point that we identify resources and leverage those resources to assist those that are having some labor health issues. One last word on autism, its a growing epidemic. Children born on the spectrum. This is not a situation that is going to go away anytime soon. We need to put energy and effort is to dealing with our fellow citizens as they grow older, because they do get older, as my little boy tells me. Hes only 12. As a Police Officer and having him as young black male who is not going to understand some of orders of police, im in a unique position to try to help on both sides of this equation of how to respond and also how to get parents some assurance. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thef i could just add on to interaction of the police with the public as it relates to autism and other cognitive disorders. If we can find a way to provide crisis intervention training to all of our officers and sheriffs, thats another tool in the toolbox. We train in the academy how to be able to go in and be authoritative and take control of a situation that is dynamic and chaotic. If we do that was somebody who is autistic, we will guarantee its going to set them off a and will end up with a potential issue use of force a bad outcome. The people know what to look for and can recognize symptoms and come up with a different approach would get a different result in everyone benefits. I want to recommend someone in the audience. Mr. Womack is here from houston, texas, who has worked with the chief engineer to his knowledge National Police week. Welcome. The chair now recognizes the gentleman for texas. Thank you. Thank you for being here. I assume all four of you are here this week along with thousands of other peace officers and families of the slain officers to honor the fallen, not just from last year but the previous years as well. In texas last year, we had 21 peace officers killed, numerous others wounded. More killed in the state of texas last year than any other state. Five of them in the dallas area were ambushed by a sniper while a demonstration was taken place taking place in the city of dallas. Ironically, the officers were protecting the demonstrators and crowd. Fire, fiveopened officers were killed, several others wounded, citizens killed , and finally the sniper was taken out as he should have been by Law Enforcement. As a member of this committee along with the others, we mourn the loss of all of those officers, plus over 130 that were killed throughout the nation. Thank you for being the head guy for your department. Chief, i want to talk a little bit about the justice for victims of trafficking act that has been implemented. As you know, the bill that passed overwhelmingly in the house and the senate and signed by the president goes after the trafficker, i call that person the slave master. Goes after the buyer, who is the consumer. It also helps the victim and treats the victim about a victim victim like a victim of crime and not a criminal. The city of houston recently had the super bowl and the city of houston Police Department was in charge, and correct me if i am wrong, but the city of houston was in charge of the entire process of trafficking and making sure that the outlaws stay out of our town during the super bowl. You worked with federal, state and the nfl and other organizations. My question to you is specifically, the bill goes after the buyer, the consumer, buys sex, who primarily with young children. For years that person seems to always get away with that conduct in the criminal Justice System. Can you give me some success or not success of the law going after the buyers and justice for victims of trafficking act in our city of houston . Good morning. Thank you so much. Unfortunately, the city of houston is the epicenter for Human Trafficking and sex trafficking. It is nothing we are proud of, but it is something we are combating. Two things were doing thats important. Like secretary kelly is talking about, the war on drugs, you can focus on the people selling the you can focus on treatment. In terms of this, we do need and we are thankful for the fact that we are starting to focus on what we really need to be focusing on, which is the consumer. In the city of houston with the das office and the mayor and Police Department, we are now treating the victims as they are. These women are victims. These boys, children, girls are victims, and were treating them as such. So as a consequence of our doing this, theyre helping us identify the bad guys that are advantage of the folks, whether the trafficker or the john. One of the thing were doing is publishing the photos of these people to go unnoticed. Thats something i wouldve done as a judge in the city. There are some interesting people that ended up in those pictures. I will leave it at that. We are grateful for that bill. We are hopeful it will help us like that. The last thing, a lot of these folks are traumatized that when they are stopped by Law Enforcement with the pimp and the trafficker, theyre free to say anything. So training Police Officers on what the indicators are, how to best get someone on the side of the road has gone a long way. Him encourage all police permits across the country to be required to have training in that area. Thank you. I think the Mayors Office has a tremendously adequate and excellent protocol on dealing with the issue of Human Trafficking. I hope more cities take it in the future. It will make us the hub of not trafficking but the answer to trafficking. The last question i wanted to make to mr. Canterbury. I want to thank you for supporting the bill that i have introduced, back the blue act , which punishes outlaws who commit crimes against Police Officers throughout the country. With that, i yield the back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from louisiana. Let me thank all of you for being here. I will start with mr. Canterbury, since you represent so many people. These are not catchy questions. If you can answer quickly that would help get to where i want to go. Would you agree that so many municipalities and local leaders in states and cities and counties are so cashstrapped that they are using the police revenuents as a generator rather from fines, fees, traffic tickets, etc. Do you think that policy fosters or hampers communitypolice relations . It hampers Community Relations. In st. Louis, there were 68 Police Officers issuing tickets. They brought that to the forefront and we should never be used to generate revenue. Let me ask another question. You would agree that the street code of no snitching erodes the safety of those communities and it hampers Law Enforcements ability to identify and convict criminals that are terrorizing those same communities. Absolutely. On the converse, with the blue code, which has been termed in terms of Police Officers unwillingness or reluctance to do the same to other Police Officers, the fact that is out there people talk about it erodes the communitys confidence in their Police Departments. I believe the discussion of it erodes it. I personally dont think the blue code exists to the extent that it is meant to be. Ive seen officers that might turn a blind eye to a policy violation. Ive never seen anybody turn a blind eye to a criminal violation. The other thing is, you mentioned and i was glad to hear you say that you do not think there are real biases, but you think some officers come in with their own personal personal their own personal, implicit bias. To the extent the chiefs and others have the ability to read that out, most often i see with allegiance to service or others that the union will always come to the defense no matter how much evidence. I think that also erodes some community confidence. Let me ask you another question. You mentioned the 18 offers officers. You talked about baton rouge in my district. You mentioned st. John and officers being gunned down. Thats what were concerned about. You mentioned homegrown terrorism. What have not heard here today is the group that has killed more Police Officers than anybody else. And so when we dont mention them, i think it gives the perception to the public that we have some outlaw urban kids are or other people who are targeting police, which is not a fair depiction, when we know who this citizen is and we never talk about them or call them by name. My Law Enforcement officers tell me theyre more concerned about a cop. G citizensk sovereign are not covered by the media the way it should be. Concerned about sovereign citizens. Baton rouge, the assailants for best to be a silent. Sovereign citizens concerning. I think if you can talk about it with my colleagues that will help us. You all are outgunned. They have better ammunition, higher capacity cartridges, better bullets that go through the body armor that you have. And they have a better body armor. If we talk about baton rouge specifically, the officers got out of their cars with handguns gun hehad a long probably invested about 5,000 in. There was nothing that could save them. Not the helmet, shield, car door, his bullet wouldve went through everything. We have to have a honest conversation about what people on the streets can buy and whether there is a need for it. Our officers are walking into situations where its iraq except they are armed as a crossing guard and the bad guys are armed as terrorists. Us talk aboutelp taking if you could help us. We are not talking about taking peoples guns, we just want the police to be a fair footing with the criminals. Could you respond to that . In the past 10 or 15 years, ive seen a big shift in lawenforcement perspective on the first and second amendment. Our position has been better background checks, Mental Health records being available to conduct those background checks will go a long way. As the Assault Rifle bill that was signed by president clinton, the numbers do not prove at the conclusion that that bill had any success in reducing the number of guns sold or number of crimes committed. Preventing people from getting those weapons that should not have them should be the first and foremost thing we should work on. The f1 seven, which is a handgun that will go through a body armor. It has no knockdown power so it cannot be selfdefense. It is sold in cabelas and everywhere else. It is strictly a killing gun. The question is, do we have the need for that, and anecdotally on assault weapons ban, i was a kid during those times. I dont know what the data shows , but i know the street value and the street cost of an ak47 45 in the went from store to 1500 on the street. It made it harder for someone to buy that gun and hopefully calm their head before they could purchase it. Thank you for what you do. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from texas, former u. S. Attorney. Thank you. Thank you for being here today. Im sure over the course of this week, police week, youre going to receive a lot of kind words and praise and certainly richly deserved. Does the u. S. Attorney under president bush, the opportunity to service the top federal lawenforcement official in the Eastern District of texas give gave me the opportunity to stand shoulder to shoulder with many officers and Police Department across the 33000 square miles of that district. It instilled in me an appreciation i didnt have before about what your men and women are asked to do everyday. The sacrifices theyre asked to make and the circumstances under which they are asked to make them. In my mind, every week should be police week in this country. Rather than just talking the talk, as legislators, we put words into action and legislation that does more than to say that we are grateful that o you. Weve had a lot of great common themes on the subcommittee today for members on both sides of the aisle. Specifically mentioned, one specific piece of legislation that i introduced. Which is the plus act which is protecting lights using surplus equipment. Legislation became necessary when the Prior Administration decided to restrict the 1033 program and take back some of the equipment that have been transferred to lawenforcement agencies under the program to the department of defense. I want to use my time to you all. You have had some opportunity to talk about it and we had a chance to talk before, mr. Canterbury, working with your folks on this issue. I cannot say how much i appreciated it, and how much we look forward to continue to engage. Chief, we talked about this issue a few months ago at an event, but theres a narrative, false narrative in some folks mind that this is barney fife playing weekend warrior with rpgs. Theres a misconception about what the equipment involved is and what it really means. Sheriff mcdonnell, right next door to the jurisdiction at the attack, i would really like you to take a few minutes and talk about the fact that this is a theoretical. This particular program what it means in terms of saving lives, not just of officers but citizens they protect. I would like to yield to all of you in that respect. Thank you for that opportunity. We touched on that briefly. The 1033 program has been very valuable to state and local departments to have the ability to respond to those calls that are out of the ordinary. When you need the equipment, you need it. To be able to put yourself in an Armored Vehicle between the suspect and some downed citizens to affect their rescue. The seconds are lifesaving. To be able to get in there without waiting into have the tools necessary and rapidly deploy them. If we are waiting for an entity for a way far away to be able to respond, this stuff as you see it on tv, these active shooter situations are often over the seconds or minutes. To mobilize and get the equipment there and do it needs to be done in a way as safe as possible, the 1033 program has given us tools that otherwise we would not have had. And i would like to add from houston, without this equipment , we learned in katrina if you can wait for the federal government to come and save you, youre going to be waiting for a while. So, the more we can equip our local agencies to be prepared for all threats, whether by nature of the next multistate shooter incident you might have, homegrown citizen or sovereign citizen, the better off well be. Houston water vehicles , is basically at sea level and when those rains come in, we deploy these vehicles. Some people think of iraq, but theres no offensive capability with 99 of the equipment that were talking about. Its all equipment that helps us conduct our Everyday Mission of keeping americans safe. I would just like to add for those departments that are strapped financially, being able to get this equipment at a lower cost is advantageous to us. They can try to get some of the equipment from the private sector, but it is extremely costly. Its cost prohibitive for us. Its a valuable resource for us. Im not sure theres another occupation out there where someone is expected to make correct, splitsecond, sometimes lifeanddeath decisions while navigating complicated laws and procedures, and the process laying his or her life on the line for total strangers for relatively little compensation and where every aspects of those public scrutiny, and in some cases scrutiny from citizens and the courts. Thats what your folks do. Everyday. I hope there is a special place in heaven for folks like that. I think every week should be police week. I appreciate you being here today. Please communicate that to the brave men and women who work with you. I yield back. The chair will recognize new york. Thank you to the distinguished chairman and this distinguished panel for your presence here. Today, your service to this country thank you for your service to this country. The department of justice is now calling for a review of Consent Decrees involving local Police Departments. It appears they have attempted to stop movement in that direction as it relates to the baltimore Police Department, which has had a history of problems, highlighted by the matter, but a series of other issues as well. Now, i believe that you came to the city of houston and previously were in the city of boston. Is that right . And anytime during the boston pd, i think there were voluntary cooperation agreements between the Civil Rights Division in the department of boston. Is that right . We were investigated by the department of justice that lasted about four years, the entire process, but rather than a into a Consent Decree lot of money goes into what i describe as a Cottage Industry for these folks who get paid to have a vested interest in never get anything out of the Consent Decree. If we can use Consent Decrees as the last step for cities and counties that dont want to be helped by the department of justice and spend those precious dollars on training and equipment and things that really will change outcomes, we are better off. We are actually going to have a meeting with the attorney generals folks in two weeks. Were going to talk about this issue. We dont want to abandon them, but we think corporate of agreements with teeth in them without these monitors that are sometimes getting one million, 2 million, 3 million a year may be better for the tax for the tax. What were some of the programmatic changes made as a result of this voluntary agreement . For me was a great tool to have because quite frankly they were validated with this new chief. Our systems and processes and policies were so outdated. Use of force. If i use my pr 24 use my baton on somebody, we would have the sergeant come to the scene oftentimes to assess to what was the use of force and documented use of force. We changed, we had 163 or so recommendations and we implemented 161 of them so its a Great Partnership and a great tool in the hope collaborative agreements will be the preferred method moving forward of attention the final step and quite frankly without the department of justice a lot of cities and counties simply will not divest in the training and equipment the Police Officers need to do a complex job unless they are forced to do these agreements in terms of the Department Justice. As a result of the department of justice engagement involving a presence and the austin Police Department was able to modernize and significantly improve the relationship between the police and communities. Is that right . Yes, sir. Knoweriff mcdonnell, i county hasy l. A. Had experience with Consent Decrees. A consent degree care about as a result of allegations and accusations of excessive use of force particularly in communities of color. Is that right . We have one in the jail , one in apple valley. Can you tell me or expansion of the department of justice and has a resulted in positive changes resulting in improvement . Does it potentially improve the relationship between a the police and the community . I have Prior Experience with lapd with the longterm Consent Decree as well. It needs to be managed in a way and a macrosense so that does what its intended to do. The things that are being counted and the things that matter and change. A lot of times, youll have a Consent Decree with a number of different recommendations for change. The completion of the consent wille, some of those affect organizational change, some of us some of them are a check the box thing, which is not as helpful. Can you give me one example before my time expires as the type of thing that could affect organizational change in a positive way . Looking at better practice in apple valley, racial profiling allegations, we were able to drill down on that and we are measuring what is occurring out there. We measure public satisfaction. There was a recent article done by the Los Angeles Times measuring where we were prior in what we are today, and it was very complement rate of the change within the organization as relates to Police Community interaction so we are very proud of that. Its a different place today than it was a few years ago. We are very proud of the progress we have been able to make there. Our use of force, significant use of force by deputies on inmates is down dramatically. When we look at the population of the jails we have in california they have changed dramatically, much more sophisticated and much more violent criminals and for longer periods of time than previous so the challenge is greater but we are managing them much better than we were in past years. Thank you, sheriff. I hope this committee would consider strongly take the position of Department Justice should proceed carefully with any effort to eradicate accountability and involvement and work towards establishing the best relationship is possible. Thank you and i yield back. The gentleman from new york yields back. The chair recognizes gentleman for from michigan for purposes of giving his Opening Statement. Thats what i want to do. The chair will recognize the gentleman from texas. I appreciate the witnesses here today, but even more appreciate the jobs you do certain people and your cities and the country. Want to follow up on the Consent Decree issue. I guess we are all affected by our own personal experiences. Experience, having been a prosecutor and doing mainly civil litigation and Getting Court appointments from time to time and also being a felony judge and chief justice, seeing it from a lot of different angles, it led me to believe that my friend and in thent intellect supreme court, just a smart guy. Had said he felt like the Consent Decrees were being used to federalize local Police Departments. From whatly appeared ive seen personally that when departments were having to spend on the experts, they really do. A make a career out of being expensive and being indispensable under Consent Decrees. There is a lot of money wasted on those people that should be wasted not wasted, but spend where it is more productive. On people, manpower and equipment to keep them safe. It always seemed to me, having watched a federal judge in my hometown take control of the thee prison system, he was legislature, executive and Judicial Branch all in one as he managed the prison systems in texas for, i dont know, 30 years, i think. That certainly seemed unconstitutional, that no one person should have that kind of authority for that period of time, to run facilities and systems, but again, that was under the decree that was agreed to, basically giving the federal government one federal judge that kind of control. But i had a Court Appointment who told me after the federal judge took control of the texas prison systems, he had been in prison before, and he had been in after, and it was a night and day difference after the federal judge took control. He was in much more danger and it was much more difficult to do time in prison. In any event, i would like to see it seems like, if there is a problem, i always felt like there should be a lawsuit, get oversightt, but the doesnt continue. It just ends up, if we have a come back, it will be more expensive again. Then leave it to the locals to clean it up with the knowledge that if they dont, the federal government will come back in and it will be more expensive and costly next time. Has houston been under a Consent Decree . No, sir. I dont believe so. I have only been there for six months. I am pretty sure we have not been. I would hope thats not something you are looking forward to. No, that is a lotto ticket no police chief would want to win. Sheriff mcdonnell, i get the impression thats not someplace you want to be either. Thats correct. I also wanted to ask something that has constantly come up over the last eight years, and that is the emphasis on people in federal prison for simple possession and the public was given the impression that we had lots of folks in federal prison for simple possession. My experience was, if there was nothing but simple possession, the feds went back to the state for prosecution. About the only time we saw the feds take a simple possession was when somebody took a plea agreement to testify, and in return they would only pursue the possession. For those who say drug crimes are victimless crimes, i would just like to finish by hearing each of your opinions on whether or not simple drug offenses are victimless crimes. Sheriff mcdonnell. I look at simple possession cases in the state of california , not just once7 but every time you are caught, and it does not matter the type of drug. We are probably in a different place than many states. But the drug market, the drug industry drives crime. Organized crime and the cartels are involved. There is Violence Associated with it from the lowest level to the highest levels. So to say its a victimless crime, i think is very wrong. When you look at what has happened across america with the opioid crisis. We are losing 91 People Per Day to overdoses, primarily from opioids. You look at that and you see these are primarily young kids, 18 to 25. Fentanyl has now been introduced to the market, which is extremely powerful and deadly in some cases, with carfentanil in particular. If you look at where that is the same time we are moving away from using the tools of the Justice System to be able to deal with drugs and i dont believe those are the tools that should be used solely. It needs to be dealt with as a Health Problem but i think we also need to be able to have leverage to be able to get people into treatment. We have lost that in california. I having that leverage in the criminal Justice System, we have the ability to get people in treatment and hopefully get their lives back on track. Without that leverage, people dont have the ability based on their addiction to give themselves the treatment and get them to break that cycle or dysfunction that we have seen too often. May i ask the chairmans indulgence have three answers to that question . The only one that hasnt asked a question yet, trying to get done by noon. But if you can accommodate judge gomer, im happy to wait longer. Not a victimless crime, but we try to do for what we can from the type of assistance that they need. To stop the dependency. Most of the cases, this is that the city and council level, or state level with state statutes. The federal penitentiary for simple possession. The fast majority of traffickers the vast majority of traffickers in the federal sector are very involved in the violent side. Its a misnomer that a federal prison is full of nonviolent drug offenders. Thank you. I dont have the data with me , but i think we need to be smart on crime, especially at a time where we have limited resources. We need to distinguish between those that are simple users and as was said, we need to get those people treatment and not put them in prison. We were charging people with felonies for having three bindles of cocaine for personal use. We have to differentiate the users from the dealers on the streets. Treatments goes a long way in getting what rid of the underlying problem. The chair now recognizes himself and i would like to thank all four of you for being with us and your service to our country. Want to start by thanking you and your family who is with you today for your service to our community and other communities throughout your distinguished career. Were really fortunate to have you in spartanburg. Tim scott, i want to thank you for helping us with our policeCommunity Relations roundtables. As you know, they are confidential because we want people to tell the truth. Your voice is an important one that we have benefited from. Your predecessor was a really good friend of mine. Tony fisher. He also is a Law Enforcement officer of color appeared of color, without whom i never would have been elected district attorney. So if folks are looking for someone to blame for me being in public service, tony fisher would be the person to blame. And tony and i would lament from time to time, the notion, the deeply held notion within certain communities that victims of color were valued less than white victims. And homicide cases in particular , if the sentences didnt reflect valuing the lives of black victims the same as white victims. Its interesting to have that conversation with a Law Enforcement officer of color, who well knew prosecutions are only as good as the evidence that we are given. So when you say Community Relations, the first thing i think of is how do we get a community to trust you and your officers enough to give us the information we know that they have, to present the evidence we know that they possess, so we can value the lives of people of color in exactly the same way we do as white victims . How do we do that . I dont think it is an easy fix, but as i mentioned earlier, it is what you do before crimes and situations arise. There is no substitute for quality, professional and Equitable Service in dealing with our citizens in all areas of our city. But breaking down these historical and traditional barriers between the police and the community are hard. Situation the no snitch situation, not giving police what they need, is significant. Information is definitely power. If we are not given the information at the scene, we could identify the person responsible and bring them to do justice. But as you said, it is a tremendous frustration. Because we value life, but the community that has been hurt life, as well, and we need them to step up to do what is necessary to bring the people responsible for the cause of the pain and hardship to justice. If theres one thing that i could just stress, when we go to calls, we are not being over invited over for tea and barbecue, obviously. But if we can get together at a noncontentious time to break down those barriers where we purpose, we do care about community. For example, i try to lead by example by being a mentor. I chaired the boys and girls club in South Carolina. These are kids that have run from the law. The people see you are sincere in your efforts to assist and we are not just some entity that comes in at rest and writes a ticket and leaves. I think that starts on the way to getting us what we are needing. You and your officers are incredibly active in our community, and i regret deeply that it takes a funeral for some of your guys and gals to know how appreciated they are. The community outpouring of support for your agency was incredibly, tragically beautiful to watch. Took jason that it life, and it doesnt have to do that. But i hope your officers feel appreciated even on the days they come home safely. I will say this when you were making your Opening Statement i was sitting there writing a summary. The pay is low and the work is hard. The danger is intense and the scrutiny is exacting and the margin for error is zero. I dont know how in the hell you recruit anybody for that line of work. I just dont. Clamoring for politicalship and a causes, i hope you can take back all of your agencies and entities that republicans a nd democrats, at least on this subcommittee, greatly value your work and we are cognizant of the sacrifices that not just you but your officers and their families make. If you would let them know that and to the point we will try to communicate that all weeks of the year and not just this one. Consente ask unanimous for statements to be put in the record. And then a letter dated from the aclu dated may 17. Without objection. To associate myself with the chairman as he concludes, you have a blue line, a legislation copy in the line, but there is no divide in the affection that we have for officers on the front lines. I believe that the questions we have asked i believe are both constructive and productive for us ensuring that we are both working in a commonality and respect and dignity. We certain offer our sympathy this week for those who have fallen, and we commit ourselves to make that zero as we work with our communities and our young people across the nation. I thank you, mr. Chairman for yielding. The other members will have five legislative days to submit additional questions for the record or extraneous to real. With that, we are adjourned. Thank you for your service. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org]