Transcripts For CSPAN Deputy Secretary Sullivan Testifies On State Department Reorganization 20170718

Questions so in order to , at 5 30te that gladly we will recess and 15 minutes and come back at 5 45 so everyone can go over and vote and be back and hear what everyone elses question. We thank you for being here mr. Secretary again. So promptly. We appreciate that youve made time to appear before this Committee Twice in a weeks time passing an annual state department bill is one of the fundamental responsibilities of this committee. When we shirk that responsibility and decline to exercise our oversight we in essence surrender our authority and we fail to do the job our constituents sent us here to do. Restoring is this annual practice was a top priority of mine when he became the chairman and im proud of the progress we made last year when the first authorization bill in 14 years became law and i want to thank everybody on this committee for making that happen. However, because of previous inaction, there are programs at the department that have not been appropriately reviewed and analyzed in well over a decade. This lack of oversight results in wasteful spending and a lack of transparency. This contains numerous important provisions that build upon last years bill. And programs that spent billions of dollars of taxpayer money. We also understand this legislation is being crafted in the early stages of the departments plans for reorganization. We expect that that reorganization will be a topic of a good bit of our conversation today. Were pleased youve come before us to speak about the process to reorganize the department and you being here is further evidence of the new administrations commitment to openness and consultation with congress. I appreciate the 45 minutes or so you spent with ben and i last week before the hearing. Rather than being a hindrance to the secretary as he assesses the future structure of the department, believe this is a tool that will assist the administration while also a Ranking Member and i in our respective staffs worked successfully in the past two years to pass authorization bills out of committee and get a combination signed into law. Again, i want to thank you, senator cardin for your dedication making sure this committee continues to fulfill its duty this year as well. I want to thank all of the members for cooperation. Were here today to discuss the bill weve shared with everyone and look forward to hearing your views, thank you again. I will turn it over to our distinguished Ranking Member. Thank you. I guess we treated you well enough the last time you came back so soon. Its always a pleasure to have you here. This is an extremely important hearing. Review of the state Department Reauthorization bill. For fy 18 as well as the state departments reorganization plans. The chairman has laid out what both of us feel very passionately about. That is congress has a responsibility to authorize the programs at the state department and Senate Foreign Relations Committee needs to do that work. We watch what the Armed Services committee does with the National Defense authorization act which is a very important bill, and we recognize that a lot of issues that should come through this committee, we need to look at the in the bill in order to try to get a vehicle to get those issue in into statute. We should have our own opportunity to do that. Under chairman corkers leadership we were able to get done in the last congress and look forward to your help in establishing that principle. The draft legislation were looking at deals with the organization of the department of state. It deals with embassy construction, personnel issues, diversity, information security, public anticorruption and publicblic diplomacy, anticorruption and other related issues. Its more ambitious than i would say the bill we had the last time, and it keeps building on what we believe is the appropriate role. The but we do need your help. Now, it is complicated because theres a new administration, and theres also a listening tour going on and a reorganization going on. So you have committed to us that we, congress, this committee, will be a part of that consultation as you look at the reorganization of the department of state. How we handle the state authorization needs to be consistent with congressional input into the reorganization. That presents an additional challenge. When we had the hearing on the this years tip report, i went over the fact that this there had been press reports considered to transfer for department of Homeland Security or being abolished and raised serious questions as to whether that was advisable. We also know the discussion of whether usaid would maintain its quasi independence. That obviously this committee has great interest. The as we look at state thaurgs and reorganization its important that we understand how these issues are being contemplated. Then we have an area that has me greatly concerned. Reduction of the work force by attrition. To me thats a non strategic way to reduce the numbers based upon who retires and could very well compromise the ability of the state department to carry out its mission. I am not going to labor the point. We all know about the budget and that was submitted by the Trump Administration that would very seriously compromise the ability of the United States to maintain its Global Leadership on diplomacy, but i do mention there is in that budget, the elimination of the development usaid, the will im nation of economic support and putting it into a new category of Development Assistance and economic support. As we are looking at , its important that we understand whats going on here, because it doesnt seem to add up to what we think are important issues. Lastly, let me mention the area of diversity. Diversity is a matter that is critically important for the state department to carry out its mission. If you dont have a diversified , talented workforce, its virtually impossible for america to have massive impact around all parts of the world. So we want to help you on that effort, but when we look what wrangle with the fellows, that causes us some concern as to what is the commitment in the state department to maintain that flow of talent in a diversified work force. So, yes, we will deal with that in the state Department Authorization but we like to work with you to make sure we in fact have that type of talented work force at the department of state. Look forward to your testimony and look forward to our discussions. Well now ill turn to the only confirmed person other than secretary of state, to help structure the state department. Were thankful youre here and in the role youre playing on behalf of our nation and us and look forward to your testimony. Thank you, mr. Chairman, Ranking Member cardin and members of the committee for having me back today. We had a good discussion last week on the departments annual tip report which we released last month and were grateful for your support and attention to this important issue and many other state department matters. As i committed in my confirmation hearing, i am always at your disposal to come and talk about issues of mutual importance to the department of state and im grateful for this opportunity to engage with the committee, both on the draft authorization act and on our redesign effort. I certainly recognize and appreciate the committees success last year in passing authorization legislation and passing the bill you sent a clear unmistakable message that congress is committed to american diplomacy and to the many patriots of the department of state who work long hours, serve the American People and advance our interests abroad. Thank you, members of the committee for your commitment to the department and for your that to serving our mutual goal and serving and representing the people of the United States the. Of the United States. We look forward to working with you on this years authorization effort and appreciate the opportunity to engage, discuss and coordinate with you throughout that process. For my initial review of the draft fy 2018 state Department Authorization bill, its clear that the committee and the Department Share many of the same goals. Advancing Americas National security and economic interest, the judicious expenditure of resources and protection of personnel and interest around the world. In the 21st century the united , states faces many evolving threats to our national security. As this committee knows well, the state department, with a fork force of more than 75,000, must respond to these challenges with the necessary speed and appropriate resources. The nature of our work at the state Department Demands flexibility and adaptability to an everchanging world. We ask that the committee keep this in mind as you continue to evaluate proposals for the authorization bill. We also appreciate the great interest in support the committee has shown to the departments efforts to make our programs and organizations more efficient and effective. The cornerstone of this effort has been the input ant feedback the input and feedback received from the state departments own employees. We recently did a listening survey thats made available to every one of our state department and u. S. Colleagues. The response was outstanding and well received. Over 35,000 employees completed the survey and hundreds took part in facetoface follow up interviews. Now that we have the feedback and posted the result, pgt secretary has asked me tolead phase 2. I share the secretary as the secretarys approach to making our department more efficient and effective without preconceived ideas about the result. Phase two includes a Steering Committee that provides oversight and groups to address themes that came out of the listening tour. First, foreign assistance, second, overseas alignment and approach. Third, Human Capital planning. And fifth, platforms management support. Created an on line portal so every employee can continue to provide input. To ensure a thorough and comprehensive review were drawing upon the expertise of every bureau in the department with participation from washington and posts overseas. This redesign effort is part of a Larger Agency review as directed by the president. To meet the president s goals, we expect our review to be completed and reports submitted by september 15. We welcome your input as we move forward and know that please know that your feedback will be integral to making the secretarys organizational redesign a success. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the state Department Authorization bill. We look forward to working with you and your staff so that congress can exercise its oversight role and the state department can care out its mission. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you very much. Ill defer to the Ranking Member. Thank you so much for your willingness to take on these responsibilities. Im going to talk about an area thats gotten a lot of attention. Thats the special envoys. The chairman has properly pointed out they continue to grow and grow. These are not confirmed positions and therefore, they gain a lot of power at times, where a confirmed person should have personal responsibility. So i dont know exactly how were going to handle this one. Because theres a lot of support within congress for particular envoys. And we dont want to diminishthe diminish the importance of the particular area in which we have a special envoy, and therefore, if we eliminate, the concern is that congress is deterring the priority. Where do you think we should be looking at these special envoys . Where are you looking at notfilling envoys or suggests perhaps even new envoys, and is it important to have those positions confirmed by the United States senate or not . So can you just share with us your thoughts on how you would like to see the Congress Working the senatore working with you on special envoys . Certainly. I think youve sit the nail on the head. The topic of special envoys, it really depends on the issue thee talking about, office were talking about. We have, i think approximate 70. Some of those offices were created to address serious issues which, over time, have diminished in significance or importance. Others, whether its global womens issues, fighting anti antisemitism are enduring issues that are extreme importance to us. So is really depends ones office we are talking about. Some of the interests that will guide us are making sure that the office, if the office is to remain functioning, is that its linked to resources that the department for example, a bureau that it may be isolated from if it is a special envoy who reports only to the secretary. So, all of these special envoys are subject to our redesign even those that are congressionally authorized by congress . Well im sorry. Go ahead. Are you considering not filling positions that congress specifically has provided by Statutory Authority . We are looking at all of them. For those that and we will consult with you and this committee and others on each ofthem. Any office that you i snow the any office that has continuing interest by members of the committee. I want to give the administration maximum flexibility, but where congress has said this area where the gender issues, or tolerance, or rights of minority communities, where we have specified by statute certain authority, it seems to me that were the policy arm. Those areas where you really dont have discretion and should be filling. If were going to try to i dontether on this know im open on this. Because i agree with the chairman. We have too many special envoys. On the other hand, there are areas that i want to have special attention where i dont think you get it unless theres a point person within the state department to deal with it, and i dont have that Comfort Level as to how were going to resolve this. If i could, just to put it in perspective. I believe there are 60 envoys. Seven are permissive. In other words, we legislated permissive language to create an envoy. 11 are mandated. So the vast majority of these are just made up. And in many cases, there are large staffs that go with that. Is that correct . Thats true. What is permissive . Should instead of shall . Well or may. May. May instead of shall. Its just like we do sometimes on sanctions. May instead of shall. So theres really only 11, as that are mandated. I may challenge whether may and shall. Weve gone through this debate many times whether its directive or whether it is mandatory. Im not comfortable, and i would like to know how we are going to how the ledge how the United States senate is going to be able to weigh in. If were the authorizing committee, if the congress is the authorizing body, we want to pay special attention and we think the best way is by special envoy, do we have to pass a statute to do that . Or are we looking at ways that we have input . If you follow the traditions of other administrations, yes, we tell you eight and you get 70 on your own . Im not sure thats the right way to go. On the other hand should we require that the senate sign off on every one of them by advice and consent . We can do that. We are already backlogged on your filling positions. That will just add another i dont know, 20, 30 more confirmations to have to get through. I just think this is a cumbersome process and its tough for us to figure out how to do it unless we know there is an open process that i think there is tremendous interest on womens issues. Thats one. But there are other areas that what happens around here. So if a senator gets difficult or are we then going to have a special envoy . Mr. Chairman, i think we have to have some orderly process which we are going to begin with these special envoys. My sense is that secretary sullivan agrees with that and is more than glad to have a conversation about that. I have a procedural question. Since there is a vote at 5 30, how does the chair intend to proceed with the hearing . Were going to adjourn at 5 30 and come back at 5 45. Thank you. Any other procedural questions . I mean senator young. I have some if you want. [laughter] thank you, chairman. Thank you, mr. Sullivan. So, just on theissue of special envoys, this is precisely why we need to look at the entire organization so were not doing an end run around the regional bureaus and so forth. But it would be helpful. We need to at least over a period of time, the principals and inform us when a special envoy will be appointed and when one wont. One possibility is that we are notified and that special envoy will continue to exist unless we affirmatively indicate after 60 days or whatever that that special envoy was inappropriately from our perspective put in place. Id like to pivot to the proposed merger, recirculating in some circles, the contemplated merger of usaid and the state department. Csi has recently published what i thought was really instructive and thoughtful analysis of the merger of the United States Information Agency and the state department in 1999 and why that went awry. And id like to just read some excerpts from that. The origins of that merger, i became aware were Vice President al gores reinventing government blueprint. The plan was to fold usaid and usia and the arms control and Disarmament Agency into state. The Arms Control Agency washappy to merge because they are primarily diplomatic in whatthey do. But usaid and usia resisted that. A deal was cut as so often so oftenar, happens up here. And so heres what happened. By the way, the heritage foundation, which is currently advocating to are a consolidation of start and usaid, has called this usia merger misguided and some of their scholars wrote about how poorly it went. One reason for the failed integration of the agency stem from the vastly Different Missions and cultures of two organizations. I would argue this is something we should consider here. State and usias budget functions were merged but Public Diplomacy was and is seen as a secondary function of the state department. That created problems as well. Lastly, the consolidation we now know, was sort sighted. The soon thereafter we had 9 11. The global war on terror is a global war of ideas. It gives us some sense of how consequential getting it wrong can be. So i would just commend that very brief article to your attention as we consider that. Next i want to thank you. You caught me out in the hall. You have the best followup of in mylitical appointee recent memory. You caught me after the last hearing and asked me if i had any additional questions pertaining to general accountability office. The then we got into a conversation about a task force that senator shaheen and i had been working on. I indicated to you that secretary tillerson had promised to sit down with members of that task force, the senator and myself to discuss some of our ideas and you offered your encouragement, so thank you for that. Lastly, i think its important for this committee to understand secretary sullivan, the time line we are dealing with here. In your prepared statement, you write that you expect to complete the reorganization report by september 15. I dont believe you have spoken to this yet but will this Committee Received a copy of that report . And if so when . Not only will you receive the final work product but my plan is that we will be consulting regularly. I and others, including the secretary, will be consulting regularly between now and then, so that your views inform the final report. So when would you anticipate the next because i havent been apprised of any previous consultations my recollection. Is that something you can send the office here . Your updates . Certainly. Id be delighted to. We i started last week as the chairman mentioned, i had a conversation before the hearing last week with the chairman and the Ranking Member on this, and i told them then, and i will tell all the members of the committee now, that that is just a first step in our consultation with you. This is the next step and we will make sure you and all the members of the committee are aware Going Forward of opportunities for us to solicit your input and also to provide you updates on how were proceeding. Lastly, can you assure me that you wont begin implementation of this proposed plan until each member of the committee has been fully briefed on it, sir . Absolutely. Senator. Thank you for holding this important hearing and for all the work that you and your staff have done on this fy 2018 state authorization bill. I continue to believe it is very important for this committee to go through this process annually and i appreciate the improvements to the process this year. I am pleased the bill includes three of my proposals and i hope we can agree to provide greater flexibility to allow separated family members of Foreign Service officers to travel and see each other and family members and i look forward to authorizing science and technology fellowships. While i support this Committee Process i also want to be clear that i do not view this bill as somehow granting congressional approval of the Trump Administrations reorganization or funding plans for the department and usaid and i appreciate the line of questioning from senator young. I continue to be concernedabout the lack of clarity surrounding the process. Appreciate what weve heard so far today but look for me and of course i think i oppose the steep budget cuts to diplomacy and development proposed in the budget request. I am pleased this includes a mechanism for review. And i wanted to move forward. Deputy secretary sullivan thank you for teffingstifying. The whole communities of the thank you for your willingness to testify. The whole communities of the state department and usaid make enormous sacrifices to serve our country. Their work is critical. As a member of the senates friends of the Foreign Service caucus, i believe we can and should do more. To recognize the work and address the challenges they face and i look forward to taking that on with you. Let me just mention in april i traveled with the chairman to draw the attention to conflict and famine in south sudan. I went on to juba and had time to spend with the Foreign Services officers at an unaccompanied post. Im concerned they face id be interested in whether you are working to improve the conditions at embassy and other posted around the world and interested whether you would consider renewing the south sudan envoy position beginsy staff meeting with a question and that is, how are our people abroad today . We have included in our redesign effort, and executive Steering Committee of which i chair and five working groups i described. Among them, the working groups would address all of the items you brought up. Treatment of Foreign Service officers, the support we provide. The most significant aspect of input issign is, this all coming from our career Foreign Service and Civil Service officers. All of the working groups there are very few noncareer participants. In fact, for the working groups there is only one noncareer participant. All of the other members are either from state or from a id, with proportional representation between state and a id. Foreign service, Civil Service, stationed in washington or abroad and at Different Levels of seniority. Those issues you raised will be raised by those most affected by them. Let me ask to more quick questions. I understand you may not have the time to answer them. I will submit them for the record. First, i understand one of the bureaus you are considering closing is the office of Iran Nuclear Implementation and folding it into another. The ambassador is no longer serving. I would welcome hearing, if i need information on jcpoa enforcement, who is the lead person . Will the administration appoint or coordinatoron or are you accounting for the t that these like having individual senators like having regular briefings. I will summarize. And a lot of meetings with Foreign Service and civil suppers officers in a number of post in the last six months, there is a lot of concern about usaid both from its own employees and others in the department about proposals that would reduce its autonomy. The budget or puzzle imposes particularly sharp cuts on usaid. I do not know whether this is proposed to be reviewed under your leadership and how you would work to address employee contends. I will take the second issue first. Let me reassure you and the committee desmond know pretermination predetermination on the issue of absorbing usaid into the state department. We had a robust conversation last week in the committee with significant representation from participating and giving amp up put on what senator gardner has described as the different culture, mission, tolls that, etc. I am very familiar and respectful of that. There implied is extremely important and there has been no induced to merge a id state. Second, i have met with the ambassador. He is one of our most senior career ambassadors. A great patriot. We are the office you describe is one of those that is under review. Note decision has been made yet ifwhat will be done, anything will be changed with respect to that office. What i can assure you of is two things. First, the significance of the subject addressed by that office way. T diminished in any second, whatever information you or any member of this committee needs, you will get. That is my promise to you. To what secretary and thank you mr. Chairman for your indulgence. We will stand in recess for 15 minutes. We will reconvene by my watch at 5 49. You are welcome to sit and drink coffee here or go and talk to others. [gavel pound] conversation]