Congress join us for a conversation about internet and tech issues facing the united states. Uzan is aative s democrat from washington. Oth have backgrounds how do you view your role as a member of congress when it comes to tech policy . Of how you are reminded much the industry is growing and how many new things you see for the first time and how many times people explain them to you. We are falling behind, we are doing what we can to stay up. We are constantly trying to take that behind Technology Knowledge and relate to people who have never done anything more than go to best buy. It is quite a challenge sometimes. The folks want to understand technology, but once you get you the data, you realize have a bit of a challenge. We are very lucky that not and myself, but a number of members who stay up on technology. Do you view your role as a member of congress when it comes to tech . Think it is about educating other members of congress about how Technology Works today, but also where it is headed. Startedhe reasons we the internet of things caucus was to educate other lawmakers about where technology is headed , and so that you have a good basis of understanding where policy needs to be impacted. Played to make sure we have laws that are up to date with the way the world works today. We have many policies that are outdated that did not contemplate everything from ecommerce, two people having cell phones and all of the information being transmitted around the world. We have a lot of work to do to keep policy up today and be more future looking very looking. Peter what is a specific piece of policy . The privacy act. Longs written in 1986, a time ago when people did not use email to communicate. We need to update it so that we have a warrant standard for all information. Information stored on a server and email that you might have is under the same warrant standard that a piece of paper in a file drawer would be. I think most americans think this should be treated like physical information. There is the email privacy act itupdate the law that says requires a warrant for access to the information. It passed the house last congress unanimously. That never happens. It is an important piece of legislation. It is updating a lot to the way the world works today and protects peoples privacy. Peter same question. To say susan is right that is one of the critical ones. I will give you some product examples that lead to the question not just of legislation, but in interpretation of the lot and not legislating. We have the famous situation of that San Bernardino murderer whose phone was an iphone and the government wanted apple to write a Software Program so we could remotely unlock it and take information. It created a question that was not a question before about privacy. Ask someone to break into a safe to get documents, that is a reasonable thing to do. If you ask them to design a safe so that it is not safe, there is a question. The other question came up a few days ago which was the arkansas toe, they are asking amazon deliver any and all voice recordings that may have been captured on their amazon echo that was inside the crime scene. Related tohave to be governments need to know, criminal prosecution, and a that reallyow does relate constitutionally, and with existing laws . As proponents of the internet of things, we know that we are asking people to consider putting hundreds of thousands of speakers, and of various diagnostic equipment into their homes and onto their bodies. We have to get it right on whether or not you are going to ifthat for your own benefit you feel that your privacy is going to be unfairly attacked. I look at those and say, we have to educate people, that in order to get the benefit of these products we have to have laws that make them feel safe in their own homes with these products. Peter lets bring ashley gold into our conversation. Yeary what is on cap this. When you started a couple years ago, both of you said a lot of lawmakers did not know what the internet of things was. Do you think people on the hill have made progress . Does it feel like the conversation is broader and congressman are more familiar . Darrell i think we have done a good job of scratching the surface. Peter i think it has made people more knowledgeable. He will have more than one product. I think that is good news, they are aware of it. ,ut they are not aware of is the growth rate and the challenges that will be faced. I mentioned those two cases, but there is also something as and i may have the same products. How do we make sure we both have our own space and we own our rise. Those are questions that judiciary and other committees will be deciding. One of the things i see happening is, the energy and Commerce Committee wants to be very active in that. That means we will have to grow the internet of things to give itself as multijurisdictional. We will have to actively recruit people from several committees if we are going to bring the right people in to make sure all committees are working on legislation. I think we have just scratched the surface. Talked about a few kick key areas in the last congress in smart cities. Folks understand the cases that were happening and early progress being made. Things like smart cities where different cities were using sensors on transportation. We also have incredible opportunities in all areas. This is infrastructure when you talk about it. They can help you figure out how much water a plant might need parts about a farmer does i have to use more water than they absolutely need. There are huge opportunities. I think we have more work to do to remind people of the opportunities are there are estimated to be 20 billion connected devices by the year 2020 of all sorts. Also to remind folks the issues of consumer can consumer protection, diversey, security, all of these are issues that we want to make sure people are aware of when looking at policies. Ashley do you feel that you are still in the education phase and picking about what legislation might be useful . Darrell i think we will be continually in the education phase. Education will be limited. In many cases what we need to do is take a deep breath and not necessarily continually in the education phase. Jump on every piece of legislation. The same for the executive branch. What is great about the internet is being of things have been organic. Some of the Privacy Protection are being worked out successfully by your old bosses microsoft,ts google. They are looking at the complexity of a level that congress would not, and coming up with solutions. I will give you one that is a great question for all of us. Internet ofvery things product from our state it, to centers in our car, do we want them to be actively making the world better . Not on our behalf, but on behalf of the world, in a way that is not attributable to us . Do we want to make sure it is sending a word about whether there is a sprinkler on, whether it should not be on a rainy day. Do we want our products to report it . Those kind of Software Algorithms are being developed at the will be a time when they come to congress and say, we want to be held harmless from song that nonpersonal data that we are not sued for using it. Tothat point, we will have figure out what is in the publics best interest. That is not terribly new, but it is new electronically. Today, if you make a phone call and say there is an accident on the side of the road. If you report it you are held harmless from some inadvertent event just because you thought you saw something. But will your sensor be held harmless . Trump president elect doesnt mind using technology all the time. He talked about not using email and not using the computer. Do you anticipate you will have a top time with him getting into all of the internet of things . Darrell i was there in new york when he met with tim cook and elon musk and people from the technology world. , we we are going to do is will have to recognize that most president s and Vice President s do not spend much time using electronic devices. They are in a bubble. Can we keep him aware of the benefit of these products in a way in which he will support it . Not trying to turn him into an al gore. Think we will do ok he is an interesting character in that he is talking about things like if you want to have something really secure, you sign it and put it on paper and have a cure your ticket courier take it. That is actually how you make sure that you dont have something that can be duplicated and disappear. Anything on a phone call can be vulnerable. Sense, we hear what he says, that is probably the most important thing for him to know. As president , everything he says and does could be listened to, a could have an effect. I am happy that he gets that part. A time getting him and others to really get the importance of what we can do with technology for our broad world. To the question of hacking and privacy. People understand that, dont they . Then i think some of president elects cabinet places have been concerning what we talk about privacy, or issues of encryption. These will be important conversations that we will have going forward. One piece of legislation we passed was the usa freedom act in terms of bringing in this msa on information. That is something senator sessions voted against. I have concerns about what it means for privacy going forward. With someone like that who potentially be the attorney general. These will be important conversations for all of us to have. Given that there has not been an explicit policy that the president elect has put out, there is reason for concern based on some of the information we have on his cabinet. Is one of the areas where you see two members of congress who might not agree on things. We tend to be the same on these issues. Conversely, the bedfellows on the other side are interesting. Marco rubio also voted against usa freedom, and ted cruz voted. Or for it within both parties you will find people on both sides. If you to give up the case of San Bernardino, this was the attorney general of president barack obama allowing the to attempt inment court to demand a Software Company work to its own gesture meant detriment. Here you have the Obama Administration trying to rip apart a part of privacy, and you sessions and many others on the other side of the aisle who would agree with him in those areas. Others onyself and the other side. I think that is where education is important. Toare not going to come Common Ground until we all understand the tradeoffs, then hopefully we will find Common Ground. These issues are not dividing us by party, they are dividing us by interpretation of safety versus privacy. There is an interesting issue with typing test technology. Which is can you be bipartisan . Im hoping that if we work to these, we can have bipartisan support. We have to see in terms of what the future administration steps will take. Obama started the u. S. Digital service. That was something that i think did a great job of bringing in leaders and experience Technology People from across the country, having them work on problems in the federal government. I would love to see that continued and to keep that interaction happening going forward. We will see what happens there. I have legislation to keep the u. S. Digital service in place. I hopefully will continue some of those ideas into this next congress and the next demonstration. Going to ask you about the u. S. Digital service. Are you bringing back a bill in congress to continue the work of Digital Service . I would like to see that continue because it has a big impact in terms of ringing talent in that can be helpful as we make sure that government is more accessible to people. That websites are easy to follow and provide information. To help people track information and not have to use as much paper when interacting with government agencies. There are so many opportunities for us to up the how we use technology in the federal government. Proven this service has to be helpful as we move forward and use technology better. Peter had he did the potential changes have affected Technology Policy . The priority is making sure that people have access to information that they want to see. It is not blocking access to information. I think it is a very important , andt in Technology Something that i think is important preserve. Excited that i am excited that the fcc will be changing leadership. We may get a more nuanced secrpretation and get the to back off on some of their claims of jurisdiction. Example give a simple of people. If you have if you are completely net neutral, and you take a one gig bandwidth. Your apple ipad decides it wants to back up to the cloud and you are on a phone call, your phone call start sounding like you are talking to a tin can. In a standard home with a standard product without layer three, it is not differentiating between your highly important streaming of your actual conversation, and the bulk upload of information. Neutrality,lk net you are talking no traffic at all. The reality is, we all need to honest program. We very often need streaming audio to beive given a certain amount of bandwidth priority over somebody who says they are just backing up their data. That is a good example of why. Neutrality is bad for you because, you and i want to have a search and priority of service. That is where the fcc should be allowing rules for priority of service. I think that is what the fcc is going to have to take up amer finding this rules about we start producing products that do have priority of service. Peter is in that role for congress in this Net Neutrality argument to set a policy . Is a bigthink there role for congress. A lot of areas are continuing to converge. When we talk about telecommunications, cable and television and the internet, we have seen so many things that come together using similar underlying technologies. That is when of the important things we have to look at. In differenties areas, different rules in different areas. Now that things are coming together, how do we look at where things are headed in the future. Place where sometimes history has dictated where policy has gone. Now that we see a lot of changes happening with technology, that applies to policy as well. Ashley do you think congress will legislate on the neutrality . Is a greatat question. I anticipate they will have those nuanced changes. I think that is a healthy and quick way to get to a solution. I always believed that neutralitywas net was first and foremost. If you are at t and working to usingat you met, just them as an example, you are prioritizing your own shows over in internet line that you are leasing to people, i think that is monopolistic behavior. Is,hould determine that it or if they are not able to, congress could add that or modernize it. Theave to realize that courts are the primary place for disagreements of that sort. Not new wants changes in the law, constantly done by congress. Grandparents were born, we put into place any trust laws that are still operative today when a judge tries to make a decision about monopolistic behavior. Of thosete ability concepts should cause us all to say, why shouldnt we use a 12 use a totalve that isnt effective. That may be where the fcc has a major role is making sure that Communication Companies disclose their priorities and what they are doing that i wilds the cusp allows the customer to know they are getting a fair deal. Feel about do you the pending at t merger . Which president elect trump has said he is opposed to the merger. How will that play out . Darrell i think we have gone to a pretty lax definition to an overly critical one. I am beginning to worry that one of the challenges is, when you have incumbent utility like ,erizon that is doing very well and it has such market share to keep them ahead of their competition in the current situation. Bandwidth is much available, they find themselves unable to be competitive. You look at other countries that may have more competition. You say, we should try to figure out how to fix that. If we are not going to allow a merger of the three major into two major cellular carriers, then the ultimate mergers are certainly worth considering. Suzan said this very well. The old definitions are not as good as they used to be. We will have to look at cable providers, satellite providers, andestrial radio providers say that they really are all the same overall market. We need to look at that market. I am not automatically opposed to the merger, and i would like to see it in light of this one. One, cannot allow the next two or three to go forward, and lets not do one the way we did with the last Telecom Merger and close the door when you have a competitive advantage by one country. Peter what do you think are some of the biggest risk when it comes to the internet . Suzan i think we have concerns of security. We have a lot of devices out there, a lot of information flowing. People buy personal devices because they have interesting features, or they like the way they look, but they dont necessarily think about what. Appens to my information or if it is stored in a place that is secure. These are important issues. We need to make sure that Privacy Protections are upheld and people can feel like they know what is happening to their information. Make choices about what happens to the information. Also that they are operating in a secure environment. That security protections are in place and people are aware of that. That is something we all have a lot of work to do. The internet of things will continue to highlight that because it is about connected devices and information flow. When you were an executive at microsoft word, was privacy and big data regular conversations . A long timeot ago when i was working, it was not as much a focus as the cloud being the storage for everyone. There was much more local storage. Ofple had servers inside companies, or individuals had stuff stored on machines. Aow we are looking at in er where information is stored in the cloud. Premise. On we might have a Larger Organization that could protect that information and provide security for that in a different way. It isould be helpful, but a different dynamic in terms of the way Technology Works, and where that technology might he. That is something we have to look at as we talk about keeping our laws up to date. You have been taking key post on the committee. Darrell we do. There is a balancing act that will have to occur. Most committees have important roles. Talked a lot about privacy. Booming talk about this watch on or hands, or a fitbit, amazon or google products that you are using to control your thermostat and turn on and off lights. Now, most of these products have been nice to have it if that watch shuts down, it will not ruin our day completely. Have our reaching across a crossing point to where system of the internet of things are running things that life depends on. The internets of of things, the safety of it, the encryption and the reliability. , all ofroperability those will be very important. The industry has recognized that. Where you cans tell they are concerned. You arent needs to ask, concerned, are you getting to an answer and what will be the national security, the Homeland Security part of it . Is al know that ukraine long Way Technology wise from the united states. When russia invaded, they shut down the grid, blocked out the operators so they could not get and cap portions of that country in the dark as they came across the border. If you can do that in a simple this was mostly just their electric grid. And imagine what would happen if all of our connected products would be locked out and shut off in addition to our power. Where would we be . That is a question the industry and the government has a role in. That is the more serious part of the internet of things. Many of these products are no longer nice to have. Recently had we the denial of Service Attack that impacted and one of the issues that came up was devices heard internet type devices were being coopted to help participate in that attack. Connectedn these devices can be used to do great things, but they are subjected to be coopted too. Cochairs of the internet of things caucus. Ashley cole of politico. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 19 79 cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television service. It is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. Cspan continues to follow president elect trump and his new administration on the road to the white house. Sunday at 6 35 eastern, from trump tower in new york city, a conversation with to Key Trump Administration staffers. Kellyanne conway and sean spicer talk about their new white house positions, their life and career in congress and what to expect from president donald trump. First we sit down with kellyanne conway, Campaign Manager for trump pence 2016. That is liberating. Are in C Communications director sean spicer as his new role as Incoming White HouseCommunications Director and press secretary. Kearny,er it is jake everybody who has held this job and offer their advice and counsel. It is a pretty humbling experience. You realize that you are in a club of 30 people who have held this position. At 6 30 fiveay eastern on cspan on cspan. Org. Us in on the free cspan radio app. Defense secretary Ashton Carter was honored monday with a formal military farewell. Joints the chiefs of staff spoke at the event. It is just under one hour. [military