Websites you are visiting. Peter do they have shared concerns in washington . Mr. Beckerman absolutely. The internet economy is incredibly important. That is what ties all of our members together. Everything from Net Neutrality to trade policy to so many other issues, there is very much alignment. Peter how did you get active in this area . Mr. Beckerman i worked on the hill for 12 years, a lot of work on telecommunications, internet tech policy. I was fortunate in 2012 when the companies wanted to start this is the asian. There are a lot of wanted to start this association. There are a lot of Tech Companies. Us, we are just Internet Companies. 2012 and wet in in started the association with 10 or 14 members, today 40 companies. Peter you used to work for energy and commerce chairman fred upton, a republican. Does he agree with you and the Internet Association on the future of Net Neutrality . Mr. Beckerman i dont work for the chairman anymore, i cannot speak for him. I do think there is bipartisan agreement from republicans on energy and commerce and Senate Commerce on both sides of the aisle. They agree, i think, on the end result. There is disagreement on how you get there, but i am happy everybody agrees there should be a free and open internet. We can debate the pathway, thats fine, but i believe there is bipartisan agreement on the end result. Peter how would fcc chairman as is proposalajit pa to change the fcc rules affect facebook, dropbox, and amazon . Mr. Beckerman we will have to see what he does. We are strong supporters of the existing rules on the book. We think there are working for consumers, which is the most important thing. The reason the rules are there is for consumers. We support the existing roles. We are concerned if they change them, it will weaken protections and allow Service Providers to be gatekeepers. Peter so title ii is the path you support. Mr. Beckerman title ii is really just the jurisdiction. Our support is based on the rules that fall under title ii and the end result that creates. Peter joining our conversation is Margaret Harding mcgill of politico. Margaret i want to pick up on discussions about Net Neutrality. You have talked about defending the roles at the fcc, but this has been a fight going on for a while. What do you think the appetite is like among your members for another Net Neutrality fight . Mr. Beckerman it really has ,een a while, since 2005 really and you think in terms of actual years, that is a long time. In washington years, a long time, but in internet years, it is a longtime, when you think about how much the internet has changed. When you are talking about 10 years, it has changed a lot. It is important that we get this right and do it in a way that is legally sustainable and not having to keep going back every two years. Margaret you think your members are prepared to step up and say, these are the rules we want, we are willing to fight to keep them . Mr. Beckerman we are in it to win it. We are a consensusbased organization. Members drive our agenda, and this is a really high priority for us. That is because it matters to our members and our customers. Margaret you had a meeting with chairman pai about this topic shortly before he unveiled his proposal. Was he receptive to your concerns . Do you think you may progress . Mr. Beckerman i hope we did. We will have to see how this turns out. Based on that conversation and things he has said in public, he agrees there should be protections, we should have an open internet, but we disagree on how you get there. That is a lot of what the debate is in the next few months. Peter mr. Beckerman, where problems prior to the wheeler fcc putting title ii into the equation . Mr. Beckerman the interesting thing, when you look back at the history of Net Neutrality we started in 2005 with principles that were not enforceable. Again, lets try to remember where the internet was. Facebook was in its infancy. There was no uber, no airbnb. Peter the iphone was just coming out. Mr. Beckerman there was the idea of watching video on your mobile device. You werent thinking about that in 2005. 2007, there was a complaint against comcast from the fcc that went to court. The Court Reversed it, struck it down because they said the fccs rules were principles and not enforceable, which led us to 2010, which was the first real Net Neutrality rules. Those were under title i. They did not include mobile. Those roles were good at the time. Verizon contested it in court, was successful in court. Those roles were struck down, not because the fcc shouldnt be able to do that. They just said you did it in the wrong way and gave a roadmap on how the fcc could go forward, which chairman reverted, which led to the 2015 roles under title ii and included mobile. A lot changed in the internet from 2010 to 2015, when they did want to include mobile. That is where we are today. The title ii piece really is just the jurisdiction based on the courts, but the kinds of rules under that are what we are fighting for and we need to make sure are maintained. Peter does this put the onus on congress to come up with a clear set of rules . Mr. Beckerman congress wrote the laws in the first place. Title i, title ii, or some we might have in the future, that is the Jurisdiction Congress gave to the fcc. Ultimately, congress can write the laws and do things that would be sustainable. Our thought is the fcc got it right. Nothing is guaranteed in congress, a very long process. We think the rules are fine. If it is not broke, dont try to fix it. We are going to try to maintain those roles. Margaret one of the things you focused on in your meeting with the chairman on Net Neutrality was interconnection, the concern about interconnection being used as a choke point to slow traffic were extract holes from companies. It looks like or extract tolls from companies. It looks like the fcc is trying to remove authority from the internet traffic exchange. Can you explain why that might be a problem for your customers . Mr. Beckerman you want to access the internet, you pay your service provider. You are paying a lot of money and you want to access the entire internet. If your experience is altered, a site is blocked or slow down, or some other things going on, you dont know where that is happening. The pointappening at of interconnection to you, you dont know. All of that should be included to protect the consumer and their ability to access the entire internet. Margaret getting in the weeds on the policy, but there is discussion about, do we need this ban on paid internet lanes or paid prioritization . One of the questions that the proposal asks is, if we allow paid prioritization, could Service Providers use that extra money to offer cheaper broadband to users . Why might you disagree with that . Mr. Beckerman if you are allowing for the fast lanes, then by default you have slow lanes. The reason the internet has worked is because there has been pure competition, where the barrier to entry for a website or new app is very low. You hear stories about facebook being started in a dorm room, or amazon in a garage. That is still happening today. The reason it happens is because the barrier is low. They are not able to pick winners and losers. The consumer gets to pick what is best and not say that the companies that can pay for a fast lane or the isp are deciding what is going to be fast and slow deciding that. Margaret some of the companies you mentioned are now wellestablished. Netflix is the poster child for Net Neutrality. By netflix has recently said, if they weaken the rules, we think we will be ok because we are so popular. Who among the Tech Companies do you think might be the new face of Net Neutrality . Mr. Beckerman i think that is the wrong way to look at it. I give our Company Credit for caring about this issue, because it is about what makes the internet ecosystem great and it is about the customers. Our companys more about customers and users than almost any other industry. That is because competition is a click away. Netflix as an example. I love the shows, but if i want to watch amazon prime video, you can do that. There is nothing stopping you from switching back and forth. Want too or three of us start our own video programming online tomorrow, we can do that. We can create a show, and if it is good, we can compete with netflix. That is what it is about and having the Customer Experience online is why our Companies Care about it and why we are fighting for this. Peter is it in a perverse way kind of an incumbent Protection System when you put things under title ii . Mr. Beckerman i dont think it is based on a title i or title ii service. It is more about the rules. When you mentioned paid prioritization, what chairman pai could decide to do is keep it under title ii or allow but allow for paid prioritization. That could happen. , butave title ii roles they allow for paid prioritization. In our view, that is not true Net Neutrality protections that people want, and we would not support that. Even if they say, we still have title ii, but if it allows for paid prioritization, we would oppose. Mr. Beckerman do you think at t peter do you think at t should be allowed not to charge its customers that or give a discount on directv . Mr. Beckerman the data cap question is very sensitive in that we dont think its a be in artificially low or said a way trying to create a price that is not accurate in the market or create artificial scarcity, which is sometimes happening. As it relates to prioritizing content, that is a problem. That is something we are concerned about as we see they are giving priority to their content over others in some of these programs, because they are creating scarcity in the amount of data consumers can have. A real problemis when people say, im getting free data. It seems like that is difficult mr. Beckerman you are paying for it. Nothing really is free. I think there needs to be transparency on what that is. This competition does come back around to the zero rating programs. Zero rating is not bad. Whatever is best for the consumer is great. It is not necessarily free. You are paying for at t, your isp connection. It is like, we are giving it back to you for free. No, you are paying for it. But there are good versions and that. A good version might be something tmobile has done, where all of the same class of content doesnt count against the cap music, for example. If you are spotify, pandora, amazon, any music service, you automatically can be a net program. Or if the three of us decided to create a music streaming service, the next day we can be on their. No barrier to entry, everybody free to access. A bad version would be if there is a paid prioritization where they are giving one price to directv content and having something separate from netflix. That creates a problem because new entrance cannot compete and it delays the experience of the user of having free choice. Margaret it sounds like the rule is a level Playing Field for everybody, and changes might favor some companies over others. Pai hasy german talked about, if you change the jurisdiction, the federal trade commission would have authority over broadband providers, and that could be good for policing privacy practices. The ftcou think about becoming the Net Neutrality enforcer . Mr. Beckerman it is a Great Organization we have a lot of respect for, but they are not subject matter experts. The engineers and expertise is at the fcc. Zero engineers at the ftc. Move drug approval from the fda to fcc. The experts are at the fcc, and we think it should stay there. Peter we have talked how our world has changed in the last 10, 20 years because of the internet. Is it time for a new telecom bill, comprehensive telecom bill . Mr. Beckerman perhaps. I always think the challenge generally is those things take a long time to do. You want to future proof it in a way, not pick winners and losers. This happens to be an issue getting in the way, so hopefully we can settle this and have rules that are sustainable, so we can look at the rewrite of the telecommunications act. Peter what other issues do you focus on besides the big one, Net Neutrality . Mr. Beckerman anything that impacts the internet economy. One of the great things about our company is is this is a great export, a real priority for this administration on grading jobs and helping the economy grow. 80 ofustry is one where the value and jobs are in the United States, but 80 of the users are around the world. So were exporting. We care a lot about trade. When you look at trade deals like nafta, the internet was in part of that. Digital commerce was not part of those conversations. Those are things that can be updated. We care about access to market issues, uber and lift and airbnb. We work with our members to make sure they are able to compete in markets across the country. Peter all these companies have washington offices. Mr. Beckerman not all of them. Some have washington offices, others dont. Peter what is the relationship between washington and Silicon Valley . Do they understand each other . Mr. Beckerman we are getting there. It has changed even in the five years we have been around. There is a recognition of Internet Companies in Silicon Valley, to say it like that. The decisions that get made in washington, d. C. And state capitals across the country matter to the bottom line of our companies and matter to their ability to grow and create services and jobs and grow the economy. , laws onto some cases the books since the 1970s or 1980s that did not anticipate the internet. Sometimes those need updating to allow for growth. Sometimes we see new laws getting put into spite new competition. We have to keep that out. There has been a recognition it is important to make sure our industry is understood and that we have a voice in washington and around the country. Margaret how would you say your Member Companies have changed their engagement in washington, with trump in the white house . Mr. Beckerman it is interesting to look at. One, i view our issues as bipartisan. We go back and forth on that. There is something for republicans and democrats to love, based on what our companies are doing. A lot of our members think about how quickly these industries have grown have only been around during president obama. Most of the companies only new president obama. We have a new president now, and we are going to work with the Trump Administration in the same way we did with obama. We will have another administration after that and after that. Our companies can work with everybody, and we will. Immigration, for example, where Tech Companies have come out strongly against some administration policies. How does that affect building relationships and finding Common Ground . Mr. Beckerman and we should. Just like in the obama administration, when they were issued we disagreed on, our companies were vocal and make sure they were hurt. When their issues were agreed on , you Work Together and find consensus. The same thing with the crop administration. Early on with the executive order, our companies were vocal in their opposition. They should be. That is what democracy is about. When there are areas of Common Ground, we will be working with them to do what is best for the country. Margaret other than trade, are there areas where you think you could find Common Ground, maybe tax reform . Mr. Beckerman that is certainly an important one, as you look at updating the tax code. I wouldnt minimize the importance of trade, it is really a key issue. Generally, how Companies Work best in a light touch regulatory environment, which this administration will support. Peter any issue with an easing on mergers . Mr. Beckerman we try to stay out of those merger issues. You have to look at each one individually. It is very different when you look at industries that are very consolidated and there is not a lot of competition. That doesnt exist as much online because of the low barriers to entry. All of our Companies Compete with each other every single day, which is great. As a result, the experience for us is better, because everybody wants to have the best possible product. You can click and click and click back and forth, and the Companies Know that. It is different when you look at the edge side versus other industries. Peter we have talked a little bit about gatekeepers. Is this an us versus them issue for you guys . Mr. Beckerman i dont think of it like that. Fromtment from isvs has isps has gone up even since the title to Net Neutrality rules. The reason that is happening is because our companies are innovating and creating new content. On the other side, the reason you can have hd video and great things online is because the isps are investing in building up the networks. The better their services are and the more they are building up networks, people are getting online faster, that is great for us, and our companies are able to innovate and come up with new websites and apps, the more people want to get highspeed internet. You would never have the plan on your phone without websites to access. Those things go back and forth. I do not see it us versus them. Margaret the investment issue has come up in the Net Neutrality debate. Has said he thinks the rules have depressed investment. Sounds like you disagree with him. Are you guys doing your own economic studies . Mr. Beckerman we are putting numbers out. I think chairman pai is terrific, and i like him a lot. He happens to be wrong in this case. The numbers they were looking at, they looked at marginal increase compared to completely thelated industries, plastic industry, comparing that as a marginal increase compared to telecom. In our opinion our economists are putting out their own report is wrong. Year after year, the number of investments has increased. The percentage has gone up. Even if you want to do the apples to apples comparison, have these rules that we have stifled innovation in the United States and stifled invention . You would compare it to countries that have not had this in the same industry. We have looked at that. Our industries that have been under the roles have increased investment compared to the same industries and other countries that have not. I are putting numbers out think the fcc just got those numbers wrong. There has been increasing investment. Margaret you have your own economists doing their own studies, you see this as a key part of the fight . Mr. Beckerman it is important. Our companies are new to engaging. Trade associations in washington compared to isps love been around for decades. We have our own chief economist looking at the numbers. The facts are the facts and we will make our case to the fcc and american people. Peter should facebook and other companies and ispss be treated the same when it comes to privacy issues . Mr. Beckerman right now, after the cra that passed the house, a vacuum wheren the ftc is not watching them for privacy and the fcc has not been able to watch them. Our companies are currently covered under the ftc, and we think they do a good job, but there are some differences in the isps. They are the tubes, lets say, the seven lane highway, versus our companies. We think the ftc is a great model for the way privacy should be looked at and regulated. Our companies are covered under the ftc currently. Peter should isps be covered in the same way . Mr. Beckerman we think they could be. Right now, they are not covered at all, a problem. A lot of people have been upset about that. We did not get involved in the cra debate. We are not trying to have a different level of regulation for another industry. Peter what is going on on the state level . Mr. Beckerman since the cra vote, over 15 states were looking at new privacy roles, which could be very problematic for a lot of companies, to have a patchwork of regulations in multiple states, and obviously federal regulation. For our companies, the ftc is doing a great job. Our companys care so much about privacy because everything is about the user. If you are not happy with the way a site is handling your privacy, you can stop using it right away. Our Companies Pay attention to this very important issue. Margaret in the privacy fight, there was some discussion isps are subject to stricter historyike web browsing is determined as sensitive. One counter to that was, instead of lowering the fcc standards, why dont we raised the ftc standard and say browsing history is sensitive regardless of what is in it. Im guessing you dont support that. Mr. Beckerman i think, leave the ftc the way they are. Ispssue we have is the are not covered by the ftc or fcc. We think the ftc model is great and that is what it should be. Peter Michael Beckerman recently proposed kind of a National Commission to protect the internet and say that it is a national interest. What do you think of his proposal . Mr. Beckerman i have not read his proposal. I would want to see more of what he said. Did he make any suggestions of who is going to be on it . He volunteered . I would want to look at the proposal. The internet is a national treasure. It is an international treasure, frankly. When you look at the industry that has been built in United States and companies that are u. S. Based companies, they are reaching a global audience. There are more Internet Users and will be more outside United States then inside, which is an opportunity for our economy, and jobs in United States. But also, the rules and regulations we have had here is the reason why these companies have come to the United States. That is something we need to take a really hard look at to make sure we maintain, that the Current Companies are able to grow, but the next generation of companies that are coming about our here. Margaret over at the white house, it sounds like there are positions yet to be filled in the office of science and technology policy. How do you think that affects the administrations relationship with tech and how they prioritize tech issues . Mr. Beckerman i know a number of people there now, and their excellent. They understand our industry. Many of them came from our industry. Hire, that is great for us, and i think we have a Good Relationship with the folks there and it is a very important office. Margaret you think they will hire up . Mr. Beckerman we are only 100 and 2, 103 days, whatever we are in. There are still a lot of positions that have to be filled, that office is one of them. I know theyre looking for good people and talking to our companies. I encourage people i know it is hard to leave the great jobs you have and go and serve in government, is really important. Margaret will the white house also announced the creation of something called the American Technology council this week, focusing on modernizing government information and technology. What opportunities do you see for attack on that counsel . Mr. Beckerman that is another Great Initiative the white house is doing that we are going to participate in. The government isnt operated like a tech or internet company. It is a lot slower and there are areas that need to be updated. You look at procurement issues on cloud, that is something our company is going to be involved in and the government should be updating its policies so i can go to a cloud first policy and be more consumer and customer driven based on technology. Peter Michael Beckerman is president and ceo of the net association. Margaret harding magill covers technology for politico. This is the communicators on cspan. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer cspan, where history unfolds daily. As a79, cspan was created Public Service by americas Cable Television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. This weekend on American History tv on cspan3, tonight at 8 00 on lectures in history, Messiah CollegeProfessor John on the people and ideas that shaped the 1776 pennsylvania constitution. 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