Transcripts For CSPAN Commerce 20240703

Has gone around our export controls we do investigate. As it relates to i. T. , ill come sit with you, if you have ideas how we can tighten it up, i want to hear them. Aoeuf been able to meet with kathy. I would love to meet with you. Because during the time i Left Congress for two years, my job was to try to figure out how to compete with belton road. We dont do it well because we dont coordinate the way china does in competing against us. I would like to see us coordinate you. Thank you , mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. Thank you. Now the gentlewoman from North Carolina, ms. Ross. Ms. Ross thank you, chairman babin, and Ranking Member lofgren, for holding this very important hearing today. Thank you, madam secretary, for being with us. North carolinas Semiconductor Industry boasts over 100 semiconductor and other Electronic Component manufacturing establishments. Over 7600 people employed in the sector. And 1. 2 billion in exported product. The passage of the chips and science act was critical in reenergying the u. S. Energy production and maintaining americas technological global competitiveness. The National Institute of standards and technology, nist, extra mural manufacturing programs are critical to supporting u. S. Domestic manufacturing. And congress authorized significant plusups for both the Manufacturing Extension Partnership and the manufacturing u. S. A. Program in the chips and science act. With major support from the bidenharris administration. As you know congress failed to appropriate funding to these programs at the levels set in chips and science. Madam secretary, could you talk about the opportunities that the United States is losing out on by not supporting the Manufacturing Extension Partnership and manufacturing u. S. A. And how would a decrease in funding to these programs affect domestic manufacturing . Secretary raimondo thank you for the question. I think its very significant. We talk a lot about securing our National Security. Competing with china. The exchange i had with congressman issa relates to what we can do on defense. My strongly held view is that what we do on offense matters so much more. There is only so much we can do. As you just said chinese is coordinated, they are investing. We need to be coordinated and invest. The reality is that over the past 30 years this country has taken its eye off the ball of manufacturing and when you dont manufacture, you lose out on innovation and become dependent on other countries. Every investment we make, its a great program, you all have them in your states. They are very well run. They help Small Companies to do phfrgs. They are going the ones well find the next Semiconductor Manufacturing innovation. The next interesting battery technology. I would say we are working hard on the manufacturing u. S. A. We are goingtonouns the topic announce the topic this fall there. Will be a competition of merit based. But shortchanging m. E. P. , manufacturing u. S. A. , shortchanges Americas National security and our ability to invest in our own manufacturing capacity. Ms. Ross final question. Back to nist. I know that the department of commerce primarily through nist is looking to increase its investments in quantum information science. Where do you believe the department of commerce should focus its efforts for the next five years through the National Quantum initiative . Im going to have to get back to you. A quantum expert i am not. I will have a doctor and her team follow up. Ms. Ross just to tell you why i think thats so important. Some of this we are doing catchup or we ceded our soft money my conductor our semiconductor to other countries. On quantum we can be the leaders. We already are maybe representative will ask about this. If you have never been to the duke Quantum Science Center to see what is going on for the future its amazing. Secretary raimondo we lead the world in quantum and a. I. I will follow up with you. Thank you very much. Now recognize the gentleman from florida, mr. Franklin. Mr. Franklin thank you, mr. Chairman. Good morning, madam secretary, appreciate you spending time. Very important topic and i would love to talk more about chips. Unfortunately since do i have you present i would like to follow up on something that our office has been trying to get some answers on for a while. As much as we all are tired of talking about the topic, it concerns covid. I hail from central florida. The Hurricane Hunters are in my hometown of lakeland. And as a former naval aviator i made it a career practice to avoid flying into storms but was invited to fly with the Hurricane Hunters and was looking forward to doing that. Back in july when i was going to do the paperwork to do that, i was surprised to find i would have to supply my status of covid vaccine, status, and be willing to submit to a test or show proof i didnt have it tefplt that came as a surprise to me considering that the administration had declared an end to the pandemic. I should have done this before, mr. Chairman, i request unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter i sent to the secretary back in july as well as the department of commerces covid19 Workplace Safety plant that was dated july, 2023. Mr. Babin without objection. Mr. Franklin our staff started doing research. Why would we require this . As it turns out i read in your departments own plan that the department does not require onsite contractor employees and visitors to provide information about their vaccine status at this time. Additionally, onsite contractor employees and visitors are not required to show prove of a negative covid19 test when entering in or a d. O. C. Facility. Regardless of the vaccine status. There is a disconnect there that im puzzled about because where between your desk and the deck flight level, someones decided to create their own policy. In no way do i fault the folks at the tip of the spear trying to get this done. 41 of my colleagues and i sent you a letter back in july asking for information about this. We still, aim sure its languishing in someones in box. Im curious why would noaa require this at this time. Particularly and organization thats nothing but scientists who presumably are following the science every day. Secretary raimondo thank you for the question. Let me say a you few things. Im sorry not replying. Im trying to get better and quicker at replying and will get you one this week. Secondly, i dont know. I will look into t i do know they are very close kwaurters these are tiny. And it could be that. Ill get you a proper answer. Thirdly, do i want to take 10 seconds to say thank you to my team that operates these Hurricane Hunters. Its been an unbelievably busy season. We only have two Hurricane Hunters that can fly into the thick of the storm. Are you braver than i. They have asked me mr. Franklin i do fly into hurricanes. Secretary raimondo im going to take this occasion to ask congress for additional funding. There are two planes. They are old. We operate a fleet of nine Hurricane Hunters. They are old. I had to take one down during the hurricane because of maintenance. Get you proper answers to your questions. I do want to say that team is working around the clock and we need congress support to maintain the fleet. Mr. Franklin i would support them and support more resources for them. I do understand it was down wasnt able to fly into the storm. Im also concerned about the implications for noaa staff. Our Staff Members of noaa required to show vaccine status as now . I would like to have those answers secretary raimondo ill get you the answers. We have a policy thats science based. I will follow up. Mr. Franklin i yield back. Thank you. Id like to recognize the gentleman from illinois. Mr. Sorensen i thank the chairman and Ranking Member for convening the hearing and your willingness to appear today. And just to continue on the subject. In my previous life, i was a meteorologist and so i really appreciate your support for those who put themselves in harms way. Flying into the hurricane, so that we have the data to better forecast where these killer storms are going to go. The chips and science act included 50 billion for chips for america fund. 39 billion for implementation, for manufacturing incentive programs. At 11 billion for r d and Work Force Development. 39 billion, thats Huge Investment in chips manufacturing. However, the cost of manufacturing is very high. More than what we covered by this investment. We need industry to capitalize on the investments made in chips. In the last year, Chips Program office has staffed up and released two notice of funding opportunity announcements. One of those was for the 39 billion for the semiconductors Financial Assistance program, which has received hundreds of statements of inquiry. In your perspective, have the investments made through chips in science act incentivized and catalyzed the investment of private capital on the scale we need . Sec. Raimondo its a great question. Yes. So let me say, although 39 billion is an enormous amount of taxpayer money and its an unprecedented program, it really is a drop in the bucket, you know, relative to the mission we have to meet. Since the president signed the chips and science act, theres been more than 300 billion of private investment announced into the Semiconductor Industry. So thats why i answer yes to your question. Like, if we continue to go on a path that for every 1 we invest theres 10 or more of private capital, then, you know, i feel good about that. But it is necessary. My job is to cut the best deal for the taxpayer, to draw in as much private capital as possible. Mr. Sorensen how does our investment compare to chinas . Sec. Raimondo much lower. I dont have the numbers in front of me but i think china has like 145 billion fund just for semiconductors. And theyve announced massive investments, state subsidies in legacy chips. So much lower. But our private sector is the envy of the world. Were not a, you know, staterun economy. Nor do we want to be one. So we will compete and win. Were not going to go toe to toe with them for public money. Were going to outinnovate them and draw in private sector capital which is why the question youre asking is so hard. Its the right question and we have to make sure it happens. Mr. Sorensen how do we make sure we meet the work force requirements . I know that was brought up before. And how can congress be part of the solution . Sec. Raimondo you know, i think Congress Needs to continue to fund work force. Work force, apprenticeships, job training, these arent social programs. These are essential Business Investments for america to compete. When i think about, if you say to me, secretary, what is success in implementing the chips act . It isnt just incentivizing a dozen new fabs. Its getting colleges and universities to put out three times as many engineers. Its getting every Community College in america to have a Semiconductor Technician certification program. Its Getting High School students, you know, to be taught Vocational Training in things that relate to the chip industry. So i take continue to fund it and dont look at it as a soft investment. Its actually every bit as important to invest in our people as it is in our tanks and missiles and, you know, hardware. Mr. Sorensen great. Appreciate that perspective. I yield back. Mr. Babin thank you, sir. Now id like to recognize mr. Baird, the gentleman from indiana. Mr. Baird thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ranking Member, for holding this session and thank you for being here, madam secretary. We appreciate it. My question is that among the requirements for those seeking chips funding, they must comply with the nepa or the National Environmental policy act. And other environmental laws and other executive orders. So tying nepa compliance to chips funding means that any company applying through any of the funding opportunities, including the upcoming one focused on r d, will need to navigate this process. And for some firms, carrying out the environmental reviews is familiar. It is resource intensity and the process is feeble, given to the bandwidth and capital they have at their disposal. However, the smaller businesses spht Semiconductor Business and material sector, theres a real risk that the requirement to comply with nepa may impact the disbursement of funding or slow down the pace of construction. Heres my question. Hows the Chips Program Office Working with its industry partners, particularly Small Business applicants, to assuage this concern . And how can the Chips Program office work with state and local authorities to reduce the potential for duplicative compliance activities that might further delay the construction of new fabs of other Manufacturing Centers . Sec. Raimondo thank you for your very important question. Youre right. Nepa takes a long time. And so i have built a little team in the chips office to do just nepa. Which is to say, to provide help and assistance, technical assistance, to applicants so they can have a nepa plan which makes sense. I will say there is currently a bipartisan amendment to the Defense Authorization act which would help a lot. So were going to do everything we can with our own team to help streamline nepa and move it as quickly as is prudent. But if congress could pass the amendment, i think the cruzkelly amendment in the authorization act, it would help us a lot to move faster. The other thing i wanted to say is, in the the way were implementing chips is were trying to incentivize states, to your point, trying to incentivize states to help us with the permitting and so, for example, states we encourage states, governors offices, to put in place a single point of contact on per milting for chips for mitting for chips for permitting for chips. A chips permitting team. Because were trying to, like you just said, streamline between the feds and state requirements and were giving a plus one to states that actually do that. Theres no easy solution on this. I worry about it myself. And like i said, i have a very good team of nepa experts trying to, you know, work the system properly so that we get it done as quickly as we can. Mr. Baird thank you. Thats good to hear. I have to give a shoutout to my alma mater, purdue university. Theyre working doing a lot of work in this chips area. Theyve gone from a small little area to an up to an 18inch to make chips. Theyre training these young people to and students. I just want to give them a shoutout for the good work in the chips area. Sec. Raimondo so im filing because one of the best visits ive taken on my in my tenure twos purdue. Ive loved all my visits but Mitch Daniels is a friend of mine, former governor. And what hes done did there was amazing. But i spent the day at purdue and i even went to a chips jobs fair at purdue and i got to meet some of the professors there, what theyre doing in chips. Its like right on target. If every community did that in this country, thered be no stopping us. Mr. Baird Mitch Daniels is my friend too. Anyway, purdue, we really appreciate you taking the time to be there. Sec. Raimondo yeah. Ive already been once, it was a great trip. Happy to go back. Mr. Baird thank you. Mr. Babin ok, thank you. Id like to recognize the gentlewoman from oregon. Thank you. Before we get started on my questions that relate back to my district, youve mentioned a lot of announcements coming this fall. Ms. Mcsally i know a ms. Salinas tpwhrfrpblg how would a Government Shutdown actually effect all the rollouts and timelines that youre facing right now . Sec. Raimondo it would be crushing. If its a shutdown, it will come to a tpwraoeupblding halt. Theres no question in my mind a shutdown will hurt Americas National security. At least as it relates to my work. Export control enforcement and work, investment of the chips money, investment of the tech money, it all stops. And every dollar and every day that we arent working, you know, puts us at greater risk. Ms. Salinas thank you. As oregon is not only home to intel and Companies Like Land Research which is in my district, they manufacture chips as well, we host a significant manufacturing hub that contributes to the Semiconductor Supply Chain. And these are really goodpaying jobs. I hear from these smaller companies, though, machinists, for example, that it was a huge shock for their businesses when chip fabrication started moving overseas. And in some cases these businesses took many years to recover. And they may hesitate to fully jump back in because of that experience. So as we look to jumpstart this essential industry, how should we be thinking longterm about the supports to ensure that this isnt just a oneoff investment, but that we are really bringing this industry and these jobs back permanently for the long haul . Sec. Raimondo yeah. I think a few things. We need to embrace innovation, including Artificial Intelligence. Which will bring down the cost of a lot of this production in a way that it could enable us to keep it in the United States. The other thing is thats why we honestly thats why we have the chips initiative. It is much more expensive to build one of these huge facilities in the u. S. Relative to asia and thats why i think this is a good investment. We want to pay workers a good wage in america. We want labor standards. We need environmental standards. So we cant back away from high standards. We need to innovate to bring down costs and then thats why i think its appropriate in this case for the government to have a program of this kind. I also will tell you, as i talk to big customers of semiconductors, i wont name names, but, you know, companies that consume huge quantities of chips, theyre increasingly willing, in some cases, to pay more for u. S. Made. Because they see how vulnerable they are when they buy all of these chips from, say, one country in asia. So if they can pay a premium to have u. S. Made chips, you know, i think theyre increasingly willing to do that. Because it adds business value. Ms. Salinas thats right. Thank you. The chips and science act appropriated 11 billion for r d activities, including the creation of the National Semiconductor technology center, as you mentioned earlier. Oregons existing infrastructure in chips, including everything from cuttingedge research to the manufacturing supply chain, to high volume fabrication capacity, uniquely positionings the state to serve as a hub for domestic r d. How are you thinking about leveraging existing resources such as oregons lieding edge leading edge and high volume Manufacturing Capabilities and our extensive supply chains to maximize investments . Sec. Raimondo we are thinking of doing that. So what we envision is creating a whole network. The nstc we want to be a neutral sciencebased place or series of places that existing universities, tech hubs, Networks Like you say, can kind of hook into. So the point of it is to tap into what exists, invest into it, so it grows, and if we succeed, the nstc will be this place that is neutral and is sciencebased so that all institutions feel comfortable interacting with it. Ms. Salinas thank you. And i yield back. Mr. Babin thank you very much. Now id like to recognize the gentleman from georgia, dr. Mccormick. Mr. Mccormick thank you, sir. And thank you, ms. Secretary, for being here with us today. Ill get right to the point. Space policy directive 3 transferred the responsibility for civilian Space Situational Awareness from the pentagon to the department of commerce. What i understand is since its transferred away from the pentagon, most other agencies that are monitoring have been using commercialized monitoring, but youre kind of developing your own system itself. How is that going to differ from the pentagon and why not rely on the commercial industry rather than creating your own kind of which seems duplicitous and really expensive . Sec. Raimondo good question. So we are going to work with the pentagon and we will absolutely leverage commercial capacity and we havent made any specific plans, were still working in the interagency, including with the pentagon, to finalize this. All of that being said, theres a need for a Space Situational Awareness, you know, program not that different from f. A. A. And air Traffic Control to keep track of the commercial congestion in space, of the commercial satellites. Space is becoming, you know, a lot of traffic. Very congested. Which increases probability of collision, caninger,ess danger, etc. Mr. Mccormick specifically we have places, people who are doing that already. They have broader access to more locations than we would have, which wed have to recreate in the department. My question is, why not use those civilian agencies and that coordination between commercial instead of recreating your own infrastructure which would seem to be much more expensive . Sec. Raimondo we will work with them but we think its necessary for the federal government to have our own proprietary system. Mr. Mccormick ok. I want to talk real quick about china and the massive satellite launches that they have right now. Basically the same kind of orbit, i think somewhere around 13,000 that theyve asked to launch up to space and how were going to track that. Basically my question is what is the department of commerce doing to keep all that in a safe space, given our limited ability to share information right now . Chinas not playing ball and theyre not allowing us to track in the same way and we cant just rely on radar tracking. I know its going to get harder as people come up with new technology and stuff like that. How do we force their hands to come to the table and share the information to keep our space, especially in that orbit, from being on a collision course . Sec. Raimondo yeah. Let me do this. My deputy secretary, don graves, along with rich dell bello, can give you a much better answer and more detailed answer to that on leo. So let me connect you with them and come back to you with a proper answer. Mr. Mccormick complex questions. I know. Final complex question. Im very interested in the a. I. Production, the actual hardware that were producing in taiwan. You mentioned the opening chips act and that we rely heavily on the hardware thats produced in taiwan. China says, were going to take taiwan. I take them for their word. If they do, what then . Were two years away from even once you break ground, it takes two years to build that kind of capacity locally. Would we have to then a way to keep them from getting that technology and actually reverse engineering and having the capability to produce it and not give it to us . In other words, are we going to have to destroy those places in place . How do we keep us on even keel or even ahead where we belong, given that our entire capacity for production is in taiwan right now . Sec. Raimondo yeah. My answer to that question is, we i have to do everything every single day to go as fast as possible to increase domestic manufacturing. I dont know im not going to engage in hypotheticals about what china will and wont do and when theyll do it. I know we are vulnerable. We buy all of those chips youre talking about, the a. I. Chips, leading edge chips, none of them are made in america right now. Which is why ive got to work like crazy every day to bring that manufacturing home as fast as we can. I dont theres no shortcut around that. Because we need them at scale. Like a. I. Consumes massive numbers of chips. Its not like you can use a small number of chips for a. I. So unfortunately the only solution at least that i can think of is move faster in america and build fabs in america to produce those chips at scale. Mr. Mccormick ill close with this. I think the chips act didnt address that fully. We dont have that production capability, nor do we even have a plan to the plans havent started being built for a. I. Chips. Im really worried about that. Thanks with that ill close. Mr. Babin thank you. Id like to recognize the gentlewoman. Ms. Foushee thank you for holding this meeting today and, secretary raimondo, it is good to see you again. Thank you for being willing to appear before us again today. I was proud to join you and President Biden earlier this year in North Carolinas fourth, which is my district, for the president s first stop on the investing in america tour, and i thank you for talking with us about the success of chips and science and where were heading. I am proud that in my district, it includes North Carolina Biotechnology Center who leads to accelerate North Carolina Life Sciences manufacturing coalition, a recipient and winner of the Economic Development agencys build back better regional challenge. This funding has helped to dramatically increase the capacity of the safe Education System to prepare North Carolina residents for highquality, wellpaying jobs and expands Entry Level Technology Training Programs at 10 Community Colleges across the state. North Carolina Central University in my district is also leading a network of the states hbcus and one historically American Indian university to establish training hubs. How do you believe these tech hubs programs will compliment the efforts of the chips office to reinvigorate the u. S. Manufacturing sector . Sec. Raimondo good morning, nice to see you. Theyre meant to work together. Theyre meant to work together. If we do this right, the nstc, which we just talked about, will work with manufacturing u. S. A. , the m. E. P. s, the tech hubs. As i said, ive been blown away by we have 400 tech hub applications from 48 states. Really highquality applications. So if we do it right, well have a whole web all over america with different investing in different parts of the supply chain. In space, in quantum, in Artificial Intelligence, in biotechnology. You know, feeding planting seeds of innovation all over the place, which then will help our biggest companies, you know, for example, like a company like intel that will be making these chips, to be that much more successful and innovative. So what were trying to build is a whole ecosystem of the work force, the research and development and the actual manufacturing. Ms. Foushee thank you for that. Im sure youve heard from many corners now that everyone wishes you just hurry up and get the money out the door. Sec. Raimondo thats true. Ms. Foushee after ensuring our capacity was a sufficiently Urgent National authority to rally bipartisan support to enact the chips and science act, and to provide the 50 billion in funding, at the same time we want and need you to get this right. Can you assure us youre doing everything you can to move as quickly as possible to get the funding out the door and can you please talk about the timeline for additional funding opportunities and where you see the future of the Chips Program heading . Sec. Raimondo so, look, i feel the pressure. I promise you that. I know we have to move fast. We are behind. But it is more important that we get it right and if we take another month or a few more weeks to get it right, i will defend that because its necessary. By the way, a shutdown sets us back in a huge way. Sending people home and slowing down our work, that would be a huge problem. So, yes, i assure you were moving as fast as we can and were doing everything we can to achieve the National Security goals that were intended to be achieved by the statute. The next phase, you know, i think that what ive said is the Chips Program is about manufacturing, but we also have to think about advanced packaging happening in the United States. Its an interesting thing, you know, we can make all the chips in america, but if we then send them to asia to be tested and packaged, thats a problem. So we have to package in the United States, we have to do the research, increase research and development in the United States, and a comment, i forget who asked me, but bring down the cost of manufacturing chips. That happens through innovation. So when you say, what comes next, i think thats what has to come next. Bending the cost curve so this can be sustainable in the United States. Ms. Foushee thank you, madam secretary. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Mr. Babin yes, maam. Thank you. Now the gentleman from california, recognize mr. Obernotle. Mr. Obernolte thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Madam secretary, thanks for the testimony today. Thanks topic thats very important to me and i think to everyone on this dais. Id like to ask about something that you just brought up. Since you brought it up, the issue of packaging. Thats something that i also have been very concerned about because obviously if we cant construct the packaging for these chips and use that to dissipate the heat from them and incorporate them into integrated circuit boards, it doesnt matter where theyre made, if were not doing the packaging here domestically, that represents an equally potent threat to our supply chain. And yet, as you remarked, nearly all of that package something currently done overseas, i think all of our u. S. Chip manufacturers do their packaging overseas by and large. I think 81 of the worlds packaging is done in asia. So i think that this is a really potent threat. I know that this is something weve all been talking about. Part of the chips and science act adds National Advanced Packaging Manufacturing Program and dedicated 2. 5 billion to get that spun up. Can you giving us an update on that and your confidence level that we can solve the packing aning problem at the same time packaging problem at the same time we solve the chip manufacturing problem . Sec. Raimondo my confidence level is high because we have to. We have no choice. And relative to the question before us, its going to require a lot of private sector capital. In our plan, in our strategy plan, our strategy paper, which we put out earlier this year, we would like to have multiple highvolume advanced packaging facilities in the United States. So severalle advanced packaging several advanced packages. As you well know, youre an expert in this, you know, theres some i hate to use kphrodity packaging, im not commodity packaging, im not sure how much of that will be in the u. S. , but certainly the leading edge packaging, the most sophisticated packaging, thats essential for the future. Chips can only get so small. Im not a scientist, but what i understand is chips can only get so small which means the special sauce is in the packaging and we have to have that in america. Period. And i think we will. Were focused on it. Mr. Obernolte great, im glad to hear. That talking about what you just brought up again, the fact that were reaching the theoretical limits of the abilities to create faster chips. Silicon isnt the only semiconductor out there. Theres increasing interest in other semiconductors, particularly semiconductors such as indian fosfide that have higher electron velocities than silicon. Those will probably be useful in applications like quantum computing which i know is something that were all very interested in making sure that the u. S. Retains a leadership role on. So i was a little alarmed to hear the efforts recently of huawei in establishing Scale Production of indian phosphate at locations such as the wuhan optics valley in china. Do we have a plan to dedicate some of the chips funding to increase the production of these Optical Semiconductors in the United States . Sec. Raimondo yes. I dont know i just made a note and ill have my team follow up with you. I dont know precisely, you know, which areas but i can promise you, were very focused on it. Whether its indian phosphate or silicon, were trying to stimulate innovation. We have to go to where the puck is going, not where it is now. Which is what youre talking about. So, yes, i am confident that we are evaluating all those future technologies and incorporating that into the way were going to invest the incentives. Mr. Obernolte glad to hear it. Lets continue that discussion. Thanks for being here today. I yield back. Sec. Raimondo thank you. Mr. Babin thank you. Id like to introduce the gentleman from North Carolina, mr. Jackson. Mr. Jackson good morning. Sec. Raimondo good morning. Mr. Jackson there are three members from North Carolina in this committee. Youve heard from two of them. They were there. Sec. Raimondo yes, i saw. Mr. Jackson representative foushee and representative ross both represent part of the research triangle, which already has a wonderful reputation for being a tech hub. Raleigh, durham, chapel hill. I represent a new district that was just created in the last census thats the charlotte region. And part of my job up here is to tell a new story for that region. To update peoples understanding because we have earned a reputation as our own tech center for a lot of different reasons. One of the nations leading Financial Centers and on and on. You said that part of your job is to get the best possible deal for the taxpayer. Want you to do that. Would be remiss if i didnt use this opportunity to muse voice use my voice to update your thinking in what it means to the state and the country. Its grown a heck of a lot and it already is a tech hub. And would truly benefit from official recognition as such. I think we all know what success looks like for the chips act 20 years from now. I think we can have a vision of what a successful semiconductorrer industry Semiconductor Industry, a mature Semiconductor Industry looks like. My question is, what does success look like five years from now . What are the markers that tell you that this is headed in the right direction . My sense is that the chips act should best be understood as an industry subsidy but as an industry catalyst. Because we dont have the money to continue to subsidize this industry as the Chinese Government would. So we have to light a very expensive spark and that spark has to catch fire. Now, youve said, youve given me a couple of possible metrics that you might be tracking here, work force is one. Cost of manufacturing going down is another. Private sector investment. Maybe the biggest. So five years from now, what do you want to see thats going to give you confidence that this spark has produced a flame . Sec. Raimondo yeah, i mean, that was so well said. And i appreciate it. First, let me say this on tech hubs. We are committed to supporting every tech hub thats designated. Which is to say, with a very limited amount of money not every tech hub will get the money, some of the ones that are depends tphraeuted will, some of them wont, but we are working on ways that we can use existing funds in the Commerce Department and across the government to support the tech hubs that are designated. So when you said youd appreciate being designated, i wanted everyone to know, were going to put our back into supporting all the designee, even the ones that dont get a tech hub money. Second thing, you know, heres what i think. Five years from now, if we do our job right, we will have in construction facilities to at least to facilities to do leadingedge chip manufacturing. Same thing for leading edge packaging. I mean, actually five years from now they should be up and running, more than in construction. So we should have new atscale fabs producing leadingedge chips in the United States. Same thing for packaging. Same thing for advanced memory at scale. The nstc will be established. There will be several centers and the country around the country doing research and development. Well have a fund established to make investments in smaller companies. And well have one or more manufacturing u. S. A. s up and running. So i think that the fiveyear mark is a really important mark because its the time that these fabs should be coming online and we should be making these chips at scale. I also the last thing ill say is, if we do our job right, with all of the work force, you know, well start to see a totally new way of training people to do these Semiconductor Jobs and its not just semiconductors. Tech technicians, cybertechnicians and such. So its a pretty its a grand vision and i think five or six years, we will have achieved a lot of that. Mr. Jackson thank you. I yield back. Mr. Babin all right. Thank you very much. Now ill recognize the gentlewoman from new york, ms. Tenney. Ms. Tenney thank you, chairman babin and Ranking Member lofgren, and thank you, secretary raimondo, for being here. Im just so privileged to represent new yorks 24th district, which has a strong history of tech. We have i. B. M. , corning in upstate new york, the eerie canal erie canal is one of the first regions to bring us into the industrial revolution. Unfortunately upstate new york has suffered tremendously because of chinesebased tints flooding our market entities flooding our market with oversubsidized cheap goods. Many of our domestic manufacturing has moved overseas. Weve lost industry jobs and brought on huge mass outmigration in new york, as everyone knows. We were the ones that kind of got started. We have the opportunity to bring manufacturing and especially the hightech Semiconductor Manufacturing research there. Were excited about the facility coming in clay, new york. We think its a great first step. But i want to ask you i want to talk to you about, first of all you talked about the hubs, some of the tech hubs that were going to be funded potentially. My district spans across all of upstate new york. Its a huge long district. I go from the buffalo region to rochester, syracuse, all the way to watertown, circling lake ontario. So buffalo, rochester and syracuse have come together, were doing this as a regional approach, the new york smart i corridor tech hub. Its a proposal that were hoping could leverage our Regional Labor market, existing semiconductor and microchip industry, some of these are holdovers from the original investments many, many years ago when new york was at its high. And draw new investments in the private sector as my colleague from North Carolina talked about. Its really important to get the buyin and the investment from the private sector which were seeing. I just wanted to also extend some gratitude here because we have other members that are very involved in this bipartisan reach on this proposal. Representative morelle, who i kind of surround in rochester area, representative higgins, representative langworthy, molinaro and also representative williams who serves on this committee. But my question for you is, i just i dont are you aware of the new york smart icorridor tech hub proposal that has been are you aware . Sec. Raimondo i am aware of it. I know youre taking that regional approach to all come toebgt. As ive said before, we have hundreds of applications, all of them are quite excellent. So were going through them now. Well make announcements pretty shortly this fall. Ms. Tenney so the phase two tech hub notice of funding opportunities are going out. Is there still a plan or an update on phase two . Is that going to be released as well . Sec. Raimondo this fall, yes. Ms. Tenney ok. Are these going to be contingent on phase one designation . Can we expect phase one tech hub designees to be notified as well . Sec. Raimondo yes. What i was saying to congressman jackson, were required by statute to depends tphraeut at least designate at least 20 and they have to be regionally diverse to make sure that the money doesnt just go to cities. Rural as well. So there will be designations and then some receive a Planning Grant and a subset will receive a larger grant. But what i was saying is, even if you dont get the larger grant, but youre designated, were committed to providing as much Government Support as we can to all the designees through, say, other commerce money or, you know, other money in the interagency, like the s. B. A. And such. The reality is, we just need more money for these tech hubs. It was in the chips and Science Program authorized at 10 billion, promoted at 500 million. And so even the subset at the designees that received the bigger grants, you know, i can tell you this. We have a meritbased team, theyre going to go through to evaluate all of the ones that are designated are probably worthy for big grants. Theyre high quality but we just dont have enough money. Ms. Tenney we urge you to obviously choose our tech hub. But we appreciate your testimony and hard work. We think weve put together a great team of bipartisan effort and really just grateful to all the representatives in upstate new york for coming back because we were once the champions of industry and innovation and we need to come back and we have a great opportunity with this Huge Investment coming from micron. We appreciate your testimony. My time has run out. Thank you so much. Sec. Raimondo i hear you. I would say, i have heard from more members of congress on tech hubs than anybody else that ive done anything else that ive done. Its unbelievable. Mr. Babin we protect our turf. Sec. Raimondo i love it. I love the advocacy. Mr. Babin id like to recognize a gentlewoman from ohio, ms. Sykes. Mrs. Sykes thank you, mr. Chair, and thank you for this meeting and, madam secretary, really appreciate you being here. Im going to talk about something different. Regional tech hubs. That was a joke. I guess it wasnt funny. [laughter] similar to my other colleagues here, would appreciate your full consideration of the regional tech hub from our community, that is not based in one of the largest cities in this state. Coming from ohios 13 g9 Congressional District 13th Congressional District, we have a bit of a shadow over us from the larger cities, including cleveland, columbus and cincinnati. And columbus, where central ohio is, we know that in central ohio where the intel project is, we hear a lot about the work from your agency and what is going to happen. But i encourage you to look at us in northeastern ohio, as well as some other smaller areas that have a lot to contribute to the opportunities to onshore chip manufacturing, as well as other Domestic Energy excuse me, domestic manufacturing in places that are very much used to doing so and have the spirit to do it as well. And not to mention the talent. I want to also thank you for your commitment to northeast ohio. We were in cleveland together to announce some minority business opportunities, which is important to getting more folks into these industries. And recently held a webinar around accessing chips funding for our community. We welcomed Economic Development companies, large businesses, nonprofits, as well as our universities and they had a lot of questions. We submitted those to your office and look forward to the responses that we get from them. Just really want to hone in on the work force conversation because theres not an industry that ive met with that has said that they arent struggling with the work force and certainly in manufacturing and technology, we experience that as well. Once you highlight your comment that child care is not a social issue, its a business decision, thank you for that. But specifically, if you could talk to us about the private businesses and what incentives or encouragements are you sharing with them to make sure were getting locally based, ohiobased folks on these ohiobased projects. Certainly we take pride in the work were doing but we want to make sure that folks in our communities are accessing them. How are you encouraging and incentivizing, demanding, mandating, if you will, those folks to work with our local employees . Sec. Raimondo great, excellent. Thank you. It was great to visit with you. I thought we had a great visit. By the way, i again want to say on tech hubs, i hear what youre saying. And we take that into account. Just because youre in a place that might not be columbus or might not be, you know, raleigh, as your colleague said, were going to look, take a hard look at the quality of the application, the quality of the technologys in your community, and make those meritbased decisions. With respect to your other question, i would say, for the chips money, we are requiring every company that applies as part of their application to show us their work force plan. And ive actually built a team in the chips office who just works these companies to develop their work force plans and the reason im doing that is because i got to protect taxpayer money. I cannot give all this money to a company and then have them fail because they cant, you know, find the talent they need to run the fab. And the same thing for child care. You wont find the talent if you cant hire and retain women. So we are asking every company to do what you just said. What are your relationships with local universities, with local high schools, with local training partners, with local Community Colleges . How are you going to train the people in the community to do the jobs in your facilities . These fabs are massive. 5,000 people to build them. 5,000 people to work there. And so the thats why when i say the work force is as important as the technology, it is. And they have to train the people in the community. If theyre going to be successful. Mrs. Sykes thank you for your answer and thank you. I yield back. Mr. Babin yes, maam. Thank you. Id like to recognize the gentleman from new jersey, mr. Kean. Mr. Kean thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you, secretary raimondo, fogger about here today for being hereto. For being here today. Ill talk a little bit about the tech hubs. Institutions are leading the way, proposals for initiatives such as Regional Technology and Innovation Hub program. Making it crucial to recognize the importance of tech hubs and fueling this spirit of innovation. Can you continue to talk a little bit about the premise of the tech hubs and why theyre so important . Sec. Raimondo yeah, absolutely. Ive been to rutgers. I visited rutgers, i dont know, a year or so ago. So i saw with my own eyes the impressive work thats happening there in robotics and other areas. The whole point of the tech hubs, including if you are successful in new jersey, is to find the next leading edge innovation in Artificial Intelligence, quantum, biotech, a. I. , all of the things that allow america to have a lead in the world. And it starts in universities. It starts in some lab somewhere and gets translated into maybe a startup and then a bigger company. The point of the tech hubs is to have a whole netswork of these little beehives of innovation where you bring together universities with companies, with innovators and entrepreneurs, and add some money to catalyze that kind of cutting edge. Which leads to jobs and ovation. I was there the last couple of weeks. Sec. Raimondo its amazing, amazing, amazing. Thousands of companies and people came out of that. Lets recreate that with tech hubs all across the country. Mr. Kean thats why in this district i represent, innovation and infrastructure district, continue to have those priorities. We need to continue to find that common ground. Can you talk a little bit about export controls and the importance of how we use export controls in our competition with the p. R. C. . Sec. Raimondo yeah, thats the other side of the coin. Tech hubs is investing in america, export controls, we have to make sure that china doesnt have access to our most cutting edge technology. Since ive been secretary, weve added over 700p. R. C. Entities to the entity list. More than 1 3 of all the chinese entities on the list were put there under the biden administration. And its because we cant be selling our most sophisticated Artificial Intelligence chips or other technology to the p. R. C. , so that they can put it in their military and use it in a way to undercut our National Security. I would say to everyone here, there needs to be more funding. We need more export enforcement agencies. We need more tech experts. Like increasingly National Security is about technology. And keeping our edge over china, staying ahead of them. So we have to control this technology so it doesnt wind up into the Chinese Military. Mr. Kean is there anything, you anticipated my next question which is what do we need to do as a congress to ensure that we continue to be on the leading edge of this fight . Sec. Raimondo what i just said, thats it. Support the budget submission. B. I. S. , once upon a time, wasnt necessarily as important as it might be today. Today, when you think about Chinese Military capacity, you think about Artificial Intelligence, satellites, quantum, data. Thats all tech. Where america leads. So if you want us to protect that fully and vigorously, and enforce that, we do need more resources, more people and more technical capacity technical people who work with us. Mr. Kean thank you. I yield back. Mr. Babin ok. Thank you very much. Id like to recognize the gentleman from florida, mr. Frost. Mr. Frost thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you, madam secretary. Neo city is a new and growing 500acre tech campus south of my district thats applied to be one of the chips and science acts Regional Technology and Innovation Hubs. Its a really beautiful project. I really encourage people to check it out. It shows how local government can really think big. Neocity includes a chip packaging facility, set to quadruple its work force and programs through the high school and two colleges in my district. Madam secretary, when selecting regional hubs, how is the department of commerces Economic Development administration taking into consideration local education and Work Force Development capacity, especially when the u. S. Semiconductor industry has a worker shortage that can be filled by locally grown talent . Sec. Raimondo yes, thank you, congressman. Im not familiar with that particular application. I will go learn about it. But it sounds like exactly the kind of thing were trying to incentivize. Which is what you said. Bring in the high schools, bring in the Community Colleges, bring in the Research Universities, bring in the big Companies Like sky water, and focus on an area of technology where you can go from excellent to world class. I do want to make that point, especially since tech hubs is so competitive. Were not trying to invest in places this is a National Security program. We want to advance the frontier of technology. So were not going to go for places that are distressed or that are pretty good on the technology. We want to go for places that are excellent on the technology, make a big investment where they can be world leading in technology. Anyway, the work force piece of it in some ways is the whole game. You need to put people to work. It will be the meritbased process, the criteria leans heavily on the work force component. Mr. Frost if youre checking out neocity, i got to visit the campus, its a huge project that will include housing, companies, the school is right next to one of the companies where students can go over there and learn about it. Its really going to provide a good model for how we can grow local tappent. The massive investments of President Bidens chips and science act will set tone for what the domestic Semiconductor Industry looks like for years to come. So we have the opportunity now to create industry that prioritizes worker safety and wellbeing. Weve had some great conversations with the aflcio. It seems Like Companies are saying new jobs wont necessarily be union jobs. And theres a want for substantial ongoing collaboration with unions, the commercial department and these companies to ensure labor standards are enforced. What steps has commerce taken to prevent a race to the bottom in terms of labor and the fact that theres competition with overseas Semiconductor Manufacturers . Sec. Raimondo yeah, so, as we say, were never going to mandate to a company davisbacon is in the statute for the building of the facility. But these companies are going to have to make their own decisions with respect to the workers in the facility. That being said, this administration cares teamly about deeply about high labor standards and workplace conditions, safety and wages. So were having every company that applies to give us their work force plan and were going to work on that with them to make sure that they have a high quality, well compensated work force to do the job. I see that as a taxpayer protection. They need a work force who can, you know, get the job done. Mr. Frost thank you so much. I yield back. Mr. Babin thank you. Now id like to recognize the gentleman from alabama, mr. Strong. Mr. Strong thank you for your time today. Secretary, your Department Works to ensure u. S. Leadership in Critical Technology such as Artificial Intelligence. This leadership depends on the nations ability to bring advanced packaging onshore. Advanced packaging combines the fastest logic chips, specifically g. P. U. s and memory chips and certain design configurations, allowing the optional language, training and interference techniques at the heart of a. I. Do you have a good sense of which applicants or types of applicants best meet the advanced packaging needs . Sec. Raimondo we do. We do. As we said, weve had 400 statements of interest. Some including leading edge packaging. And it is part of our strategy to incentivize packaging. Because we want to have at least a couple of leading edge packaging investments in the u. S. As a result of this. Mr. Strong since theres virtually no packaging done in the u. S. , do you feel confident in the discussions with these few companies that work on advanced packaging, that you can strike a deal and bring these technologies to the u. S. . Sec. Raimondo i do. Mr. Strong in august, the Commerce Department announced that in the years since the chips act was signed in a law, that the Chips Program office has received 460 statements of interest for projects in 42 states. Over august recess, i had the opportunity to visit with large Chemical Manufacturers in north alabama who were exploring expansion to support new Semiconductor Manufacturing because of the chips act. While significant attention has been given to large fabrication projects announced in states such as california, arizona, new york and ohio, is it important that project its important that projects in states like alabama where theres currently no significant presence of chip manufacturers are given fair consideration. Can you specifically describe the Chips Program offices efforts so far to ensure that the chips act is implemented as a National Program with opportunities for states like mine that also want to play a Critical Role in the domestic Semiconductor Supply Chain . Sec. Raimondo yes. I can absolutely assure you of that. Listen, this is completely meritbased. There are no states or projects that have any advantages over any other. Its based upon who can help us hit our the mission and the program which weve identified in a paper, which we put out earlier this year. Ill say, of the 39 billion, we said that 10 billion will be invested in mature node chips and also supply chain companies. Which would include chemical Companies Like the one youre talking about. So we would encourage them to apply and i promise you theyll get a really hard look. Mr. Strong thank you. North alabama is home to a variety of spacebased Technology Research and development companies, as well as nasas marshall speights flight center. Both space flight center. Both commercial companies and civil space organizations recognize the potential of utilizing microgravity as an environment to make smaller chips. Can you speak to the department of commerces interest in ensuring that the regulations implementing the chips act directly acknowledges and supports the future of this important work in space . Sec. Raimondo yes. Its a component. You know, although it sounds crazy to say that 39 billion is not enough money, you know, we cant do everything. And these are massive projects. So i can assure you we are looking to do the most cutting edge work, including with a. I. Chips and spacerelated chips to advance our National Security goals and that well look at all applications, you know, very seriously. Mr. Strong thank you. I yield back. Mr. Babin id like to recognize the gentlewoman from colorado, ms. Caraveo. Ms. Caraveo thank you for coming in spo teak with us. I think i would be repolice if i didnt mention reif is in i didnt mention colorados remiss if i didnt mention colorados bid to be a tech hub. One of the best things about colorado is the concentration of Research Universities we have that are primed to take advantage of the benefits of the chips and science act. These include universities like boulder, Colorado State and m. S. U. Denver which deputy secretary graves visited earlier this year. And while im eager to make sure that these institutions are able to take advantage of the various programs in the chips act, specifically chips, r d and work force program, i want to make sure that other institutions that dont have the clout or recognition of a university are able to use these programs as well. My district is home to the university of Northern Colorado which is a smaller Public Institution thats becoming an attractive option for many coloradans. Its runc, probably lesser known than the North Carolina one, but it has seen a growing demand for undergraduate students to add more degrees in the stem fields and is adding statistics for the first time this semester as a major. Many more students are interested in Mathematical Sciences and the university i think has been forward thinking in expanding its expertise there. But i want to make sure that even though u. N. C. Is still growing that they can compete with larger universities for new r d and work force programs being started by the department. How is the department ensuring the smaller institutions that are still building their sub programs like u. N. C. Will be able to engage in partnerships under the various chips, r d and work force programs . Sec. Raimondo yes, thank you. Let me be really clear about this. We wont succeed unless we have Community Colleges, all college, not just the tier one Research Universities. In some ways, you know, a lot of them are already doing their thing. We talked about purdue earlier. We are completely focused on what youre talking about, especially when you have a college or Community College like that hooked into a Bigger Network of a statewide system. We need to be operating at every level. I said earlier, theres a massive shortage of Semiconductor Technicians, theres a massive shortage of cybersecurity technicians, of digital backbone workers. You know, every one that that college can put out, we can put to work. By the way, i lived this as governor. You know, when i was the governor of rhode island, we completely redid our Community College and our nonresearch university fouryear granting university to be focused on the Industry Needs and it worked. These students, in my experience, are incredibly hungry, hardworking and theyre the ones you need to support to get good jobs. So its what were doing. We are reaching out, we already have, i think, 50 Community Colleges around the country that were working with or who have said they want to work with us to do what you said. Like, redesign the curriculum to match the needs. Its why were asking companies to give us their work force plan and then were going to work with them to say, you have thought about this college . What are you doing with this university . So