Transcripts For CSPAN Capital News Today 20100724

55% rate in 2011. that's unacceptable in my view. the good news -- frankly is presumably it is unacceptable to most republicans. what does that do? that undercuts their major strategy for the last eight months which is to delay and to obstruct. they need to have this passed because their policy will result in an objective they now say they don't want. so that i am very hopeful we give to families the certainty of a rate. my own view would be that when the house passed 3.5 and 45% it was a good compromise and should be adopted. it reflected inflationry increases in values of estates. it gave to -- to -- i don't know the exact percentage, but over 98.5% of the states exemption from the paying estate tax. >> in interest of time. congressman? this is the last question. >> thank you. thank you majority leader hoyer for your comments, i appreciate it. i'm monica mire. >> thank you with your help with the bill this week. >> that was a victory. >>eo encouraged our republicans to reflect and we had a good vote on that. about >> thank you for recognizing that. the manufacturers released a stream just last month. there were three simple points. one is the united states ought to be the best place for a key to head quarter itself. two, the united states ought to be the best place for research and development. it should be the best place for a manufacturer to be. regarding the r and d credit, it is mired in the senate for sometime. it expired at the end of last year for the 14th time. manufacturers claim 70% of the r aye d credits. any prognosis whether there will be a rhett acttive extension this year of the credit which is a jobs credit because more than 0e% of the credit dollars go to r & d jobs in the united states. >> i'm hoping -- i don't want to anticipate what -- what -- what we'll do on that. my own personal view would be, we need to make it retro active again to encourage. as you know, we have adopted statutory pay bill. that was the right policy to adopt because when the republicans jetsonned the statutory pay bill in 2003, as a practical matter they can jetsonned in 2001 and 2 002. they actually eliminated the pay go requirement. what that allowed them to do was incur great debt without consequence. the consequence was we created great debt without paying for it. these are subject to pay go requirements. so we need to pay for those tax credits but having said that, my view is strongly that those credits are very, very important to the make it in america agenda. encouraging manufacturing in any way that we can not only through tax credits but the education component that you spoke of earlier so that we have the kind of technically scientifically, mathematically engineeringly trained people to take the jobs that will expand manufacturing. we believe with the national association of manufacturers that -- that america is the best place. we have the best resources in our people. and given the proper environment we will be able to compete with anybody in the world. so i want to say to you that you could take the message back to the -- to the national association of manufacturers that i personally and -- the members of the democratic caucus look forward to working with -- with the national association of manufacturers toward our joint objectives. we don't always agree, obviously, nobody would expect that. but i think on this -- on this, objective of creating jobs and making sure that -- that the rest of the world know that is we can and do make it in america, america will be a -- a greater economy and our pream will be better off. >> thank you all very much. [applause] >> next the coast guard and interior department hearing into the gulf of mexico oil rig explosion. then retired admiral alan on the gulf coast clean-up efforts. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] [captions performed by the national captioning institute] please rise and raise your right hand. [sworn in] >> captain, i'm representing 34r williams here today. >> explain it to the reporter. >> thank you, sir. mr. williams, for the record, please state your full name and spell your last. >> michael keith williams,. >> by whom are employed? >> transocean. >> what position do you hold with trans ocean, sir? >> chief electrician. >> how long have you been the chief electronics technician. >> six months. >> prior to that what was your other positions within transocean? >> electronics technician prior to that for a period of one year. prior to that i was a roust about. >> how long were you a roust about? >> with transocean, two years. >> were you a roust about with another company as well? >> no, sir. >> did you have other oil and gas experience outside of trans ocean? >> none. >> as chief electronics tech can you please briefly describe your responsibles? >> first and foremost job responsibilities included maintaining a fire and gas system. any and all electronic signaling devices throughout the rig. all right. please give us -- give me a background of your education, if you had anticipate other jobs that might be involved with heck electronic technician? >> i was if the united states marine corps and i was certified avionics technician. that was the education level i used to achieve this job. >> thank you. could you please indicate where you were located at the time of the incident on board the deep water horizon. >> i was in the shop. >> could you please give us your best recollection of that day up to the event, from the morning of april 20th up until the event, sir? >> starting at the time i woke up? >> yes, sir, please. >> monday was a short change day which would have been the 18th or the 19th. it is short change. i got five hours of sleep the night before where we rotate from days to nights or nights to days, the reverse. nothing real unusual that day. we were in a holding pattern waiting for rick floor operations. they had finished the cement job and you know as far as we knew we were -- we were running tests which normally means a slower maintenance day for us. during testing, normally there's no rig maintenance that is conducted because you got pressure kind of everywhere. they kind of make it a no go zone. i had some house keeping items that needed to be taken care of. number one was the crepe they changed out. the boom line during routine maintenance and i had gone up to reset the boom limits, as part of the job scope. the limits for the boom after they completed the change out of the cable. we stayed an hour. i took the chief mechanic with me who was new to the position to familiarize him with the operation and to -- to give him an idea of what i do versus what his responsibilities on the same job would be. we went up and visited with dale the crane operator. we went through the limits. we stayed for -- for approximately an hour. conducted some tests. made sure that -- double checked, let the boom go down and have it go back up. tested the limits and proceeded back to my shop to take care of -- of the mess requirements for the job. there had been a job created to reset the boom limits. i needed to put motors in the system and log my time and man hours and take care of some of those issues. can you please tell me when you were in the shop, is there anything that indicated there was a problem going on? >> there was -- there was -- just so happens i was on the phone around 9:30 with my wife. i have a -- a p.a.g.a. rack, there's two racks for the p.a. system. there's one forward and one asp. the rack happens to be mr. my shop. during our phone conversation, we heard a -- a gas level being announced. sperry would announce the levels of the fass in the mud or coming pack. my wife heard the announcement through the telephone through the speaker and asked if i needed to get off the phone to take care of it. i said no it was an nirgets to make sure -- to make sure what they were. we heard them so often i didn't hear them anymore, especially with this well, we were getting them back continuously. it is constant flag. when the levels reached 200, that's the cut-off for all chipping and welding and grinding and outside hot work. that's when i concerned myself with gas levels. i know they're high enough that i don't need to cut wiring and making sparks anywhere of any kind. at that point i pay attention to gas levels. up until then, that was the only indication that i had that something was -- not necessaryly out of the ordinary but something to get your attention. >> after that occurred, did you hear anything -- anticipate type of problems electronically that you -- when you were in the shop sir? >> rephrase that. >> anything out of the ordinary after the alarm, any sounds that indicate it was engine overspeed or any type of hissing or where it was coming from? >> what happened next, i heard a hissing noise. a thump. where my shop was located was directly below the riser escape which feeds the riser package into the rig floor. it was not uncommon for the operators to run there skate in reverse to bring it -- to retract it out. it would hit the mechanical stops if the back and it would literally -- thump in the shop. i could hear it bang. i heard the thump and the hiss. at that point i assumed the hissing was -- hide drol lick leak from them back in the -- back in the skate out too fast and hitting the stop too hard and they may have ruptured a line. i heard the hissing noise. at that point i got off the phone with my wife. i said i got to check this out. make sure we don't have oil going everywhere. and right about -- right about -- within seconds of that, i started hearing beeping. now the beeping is coming through my ventilation system. there's a crossover between my shop and the e.c.r. they're adjoining adjoining spaces. there's a cross ventilation system in this. i could hear the panel beeps which are local panel alarms. i'm hearing the peep, beep. it is continuous. i'm thinking to myself, what is going on? do i have a process station acting up? do i have erroneous alarms. i'm trying to put this together in my head as to the thump, the hiss and now the beeps. and about the time i considered -- i -- now i know i need to find out exactly what is happening. i push back from the table, i hear the engine start to rev. now my shop is located directly center of the rig, with -- with engines number three on my port side and four on my starboard. engine number three is online, simply from walking through the spaces, i know can engines are online at any given time. i could hear engine three start to rev up. it is -- normal rating -- rpm's to way before what i heard it run before. it is continuously steadily rising. i flue then that we were having a problem. as i start to push back, the computer monitor exploded in front of me. all of the lights in my shop popped. the light bulbs themselves physically popped. now i know we're in trouble. i reached down to grab my door -- at the simultaneously of grabbing the handle the engine goes to a level that is higher than i can even describe. it is spinning so fast that it just -- it stopped pinning and there was a huge explosion. >> after that initial explosion, was there an additional explosion? >> there was. that -- that explosion blew the fire door that was between me and those faces off the hinges. >> first explosion? >> first explosion. it blew the fire door and myself across the shop and within seconds, the co-2 system started discharge. the controller was inside my shop as well. i couldn't see anything, i couldn't -- i couldn't -- i couldn't breathe because co-2 there was no oxygen. i crawled across the floor, found the opening and made my way out. i had a small pen flashlight i put in my mouth to try to see. i didn't know why i couldn't see. i couldn't see anything. i made it to the next door by feel. i stayed on my hands and knees because i could feel the heat. i knew that if there was going to be any oxygen at all, it is going to be down at the bottom. as i reached the next door, i reached up and grabbed the handle for it. it then exploded. that was explosion number two. >> what was the time frame in your -- in your -- any idea? >> i have no recollection of time. >> sorry to interrupt you. >> that explosion -- pushed me back 30, 35 feet into another wall. as i cleared that door, i remember getting angry. i don't know why i got angry. i was mad at the doors. they were beating me to death. two doors in a row, it hit me right in the forehead. and you know planneded me against the wall somewhere. my arm wouldn't work, my left leg wouldn't work. i couldn't -- i couldn't breathe and i couldn't see. i knew i had to get outside and get in fresh air. the co-2, it was overwhelming. as i'm crawling through the -- through it, i crawled across the bodies of two men. i don't know their condition, i'm trying to get them to respond, they're not responding. i assume they're dead and keep moving because i know i'm in no condition to help them. i can barely help myself at this point. the flooring inside the e.t.r. was elevated about 2 1/2 feet so that the wire trade and things could run underneath. all of the panels were missing. there was nothing but grid work. i was tripping and falling through the gridwork to make my way to the outside water type door. i get about halfway across it. i can actually see the light -- a tim light. so i'm assuming i'm headed in the right direction. i go toward the light. eventually i make my way outside. i turn to the right, and the reason i did, i knew what -- what little breeze we had was coming on the starboard bow. i was on the crane and i noted the wind direction, what breeze we had, i noted so always walk up wind of fire -- fire and smoke. i turned to the right. as i did i -- i -- got my bearings and got my eyes cleaned out and enough where i could see and noticed there was no walkway. there were no handrail and there was no stairwell left. one more step and i would have went this the water. at that point i looked up at the wall and the exhaust for engine three and the wall and handrail and the walkway all of those things were missing. they were completely blown off the back of the rig. the only course of action from there was to turn around and go the opposite way, go to the port side. i turned port. i needed to go back to the left. head toward the starboard side of the rig. there's two life boats. they have lifeboat deck and from -- from -- from -- what i saw, what i heard and what i felt i -- i seriously considered launching a lifeboat by myself. i knew that somebody really bad had happened and it wasn't going to get any better any time soon. i had the inclination that -- that this was way worse than anyone ko expect. i thought about it for a second and i remembered that i -- i had responsibilities as a t.p.t. i have an emergency station to go to. the problem was my emergency station no longer existed, it was the b.c.r. i made the decision to put my life jacket on right there. and try to make my way to the bridge, which would be my secondary muster station. i determined if i couldn't make it there i was going to come back and launch the lifeboat by myself. i got up to the main deck, when i got up to the main deck, the hissing noise has now turned into a full-blown roar and i look at the doghouse and the derrick, the doghouse is on fire and half of the derrick is on fire. it was then that i realized we had a blowout. made my way to the portside of the rig, up wind. walked across the main deck. all the way forward to the -- to the -- to the bridge. once i got on the bridge, i reported immediately to the captain that we have no propropulsion or power or e.c.r. he looked at me with a dazed and confused deer this the headlights look. i said we have no e.c.r., it is gone. engine number three has blown up. we need to abandon ship now. i just kept saying it over and over. and -- at one point, i was told, finally to just calm down and sit down, we're working on it. at that point my supervisor or one level above me, mr. bert tony walked over and assessed my injuries. he went looking for medical supplies, couldn't find any. in the panic couldn't find a med dick. he grabbed the nearest thing he could which is a roll of toilet paper which was to stop the bleeding. i got enough out of my eyes where i could start to see. got enough toilet paper on my head to stop the flow of blood into my eyes -- and i remember him asking about the stand by generator if it -- if it -- mr. bert tony, i remember him asking about the stand by generator. he asked the captain, do you want me to start the stand by generator? he said will it give me fire pumps or propulsion. he said no it would give us lighting. it will give us the ability to bring the engines back on line later. and in -- knowing you have to have the stand by generator to power the air compressers which start the main engine. no one volunteered to go with mr. bertoni to start the generator. i would have to say that -- because you have to go back to the -- you have to go back to the fire. the generator was located adjacent to the derrick. as he was on the way out the door, it dawned on me that nobody volunteered to go with him. we were sending a man alone to try to start the generator. if this was going to be any -- any success in that, we needed more than one man. i grabbed him and told him you're not going by yourself, i'm going with you. he objected several times. and said well, if i don't go you don't go. it is -- you're not going by yourself. at that point another man paul i believe his name. grabbed a hold of my shirttail. we went -- in a line three of us, back to the fire. we crossed the moon area on the main deck and proceeded to the stand by generator room. made several attempts to start the generator. i don't know how long we were in this. five, 10, 15 minutes. i don't know, we made several attempts. we followed the procedure that was located there at the generator. several times, we tried some other things that steve thought of. as an electrical supervisor he was familiar with the stand by generator. and we couldn't get it to respond. i could get the 24 volt signal to come on telling me the batteries were available. the engine wouldn't do anything. at that point steve and i decided to stop the attempt and make our way back to the bridge and report our findings to the captain. on our way back to the bridge is when i noticed -- i believe it was lifeboat number one had descended and was motoring away. they had descend add disconnected from the rig. as we got back in the bridge, the captain announced he had given the order to abandon ship that -- it was a lost cause, we weren't going to be able to fight the fire. it was time to leave. as we made our way down the ladder to get to the life boats, lifeboat number two descended. so now there are are -- there are the two forward life boats are both gone. they're both unavailable. once they go down, there's no coming back up because we had no power. there was a thought and o-a -- someone made mention of can we make it to the aflac boats and does anyone know their condition? i said i came from there, when i left there they were in good condition. i didn't see physical damage or fire on the lifeboat deck aft. there was a huge risk going back across the main deck to get back this again. there's several minor explosions occurring. things falling and you could hear stuff popping. we didn't know which way the derrick would fall and when it did fall, i guess it is general knowledge, if you cook a derrick long enough eventually it will fall down. we didn't know when that would be and didn't want to risk having that fall on us. the decision was made to try to launch a life raft. there were lee life rafts available to us. after -- after what seemed like forever we finally got one life raft deployed. we had an injured man with us in a stretcher. our first concern was to get him loaded. we were having difficulties with the raft, the angle at which it deployed. there was something hung up in the arm, i'm not sure what. but -- there was a terrible angle between the rig and the life raft. the life raft was not sitting level. and the concern was that we would get him partly in the door and the raft play swing out and him fall in the water. eventually they got him loaded. and there was a crowd of -- of folks there trying to get in the small opening. i remember grabbing two people and backing them up against a wall. we had about a 20-foot bulk head behind us that would shield us from the derrick. the fire at that point is -- is completely out of the top of the derrick. things are popping. things falling and things starting to fly. there's -- there's projectiles coming from everywhere. there's just stuff flying everywhere. smoke and the heat -- are intense. even at the bulk head. i guess there was some type of back draft occurring underneath the vessel and it was starting to wrap around and feed itself. at that point i wasn't sure that the life raft was going to survive. there was so much heat coming up i thought for sure the life raft was going to pop or melt. the people inside were going to cook. as we were waiting for an opening to develop for us to go in to get in the life raft, when the hole finally developed and everyone had gotten in the life raft deployed. so there we sit three of us with no life raft and no life boats. there are two more life rafts at our disposal but so long as it took the first one to deploy, i honestly didn't feel like we would survive trying to deploy a second one. i didn't know if us three, me and my condition and i didn't know the condition of the other two people if we could successfully deploy another lifeboat. . . two individuals that we can stay here and die or we can jump. i remembered that in our training, they teach you to reach your hand around july traffic a run your life jacket and take one step and fall. the problem is, there is no life raft at the bottom. -- there was a life raft at the bottom. we could injure somebody. i remember telling a young woman that we would have to run and jump. i remember her responding that she could not jump to rid -- could not jump. i remember the other individual jumping and told her that he just did it, that she had to do it. she said that she could not do it, so i told her to watch me. i cleared the life raft by a pretty good ways. once i hit the water, when i came back up, i could not see anything again. now i've got a new set of problems. i have a hydraulic fluid, gasoline, diesel, what ever it is that is on the water is now burning my entire body. i cannot hardly breathe. i could feel the heat from the fire underneath the vessel. i started backstroking with the one arm and one leg that would work until i it remember feeling no pain, no heat, and i thought that that was it, that i had died. some time later, i felt the heat again and i kept thinking that i had to swim. i heard something in the distance. i heard, "over here, over here. i did not know what it was, but i started swimming as hard as i could towards it. at one point, i did not hear the noise anymore or feel the pain anymore and then i felt something start lifting the about of the water. a small, orange rescue craft had grabbed me and flipped me over into the boat. i remember telling him that we need to give away from this fire. i was letting him know that the situation that we were in is normal. i said that i could not leave, that i still saw more lights. we retrieved a person, which was the dynamic position operator. at that point, i asked if we could leave. they said that there was a raft in the water and there were more lights on the water. we proceeded to go back towards the rig again. now, we are close enough and i can feel the heat again. i see the life raft, and it is literally still under the rig's and i could see people outside of ththe life raft. we get up to them and throw them a line and i realize one of the man is the chief electrician -- mint is a chief electrician. i told him that i did not have a nice. our policy was no pocket knives. as we pulled the life raft away from where it was, it was still tied off. there is a cutting device inside of the raft to cut the pager line. in the panic in the darkness, they could not find this cutting device. as we try to pull the life raft from the rig, it was not moving. we were simply stuck. finally, one of the gentleman that was in the life raft had a pocket knife and we got it to them and they cut loose and we pull ourselves over. >> thank you. just to go back, you had mentioned that there were several alarms going off indicating that there was a high gas levels when you are on the phone with your wife. is that right? >> that was a high gas little alarmed that came over the intercom system. >> do you know at what level? >> at 200 units of gas, that is where all her work has to cease. >> use said you started hearing panel alarms. what were you referring to? >> there are operating stations for vessel control systems and those are the local panels. that is where they get all their data and that is how the control functions on the rig. >> did you hear any alarm that would indicate a general muster? >> never. >> are you familiar with the alarm that i am referring to? can you explain to me how that is set up as far as your knowledge as to how it is set up? what's the general alarm is set up to inform the entire risk of any of three conditions, number one, fire, no. 2 combustible gas, and toxic gas. each alarm has a particular town. there is a red, yellow and blue color code. you get an audio tone and a visual tone with every general alarm. >> digit either one of those alarms -- did you get either one of those alarms? >> no sir. >> the you know why you did not? >> yes, they were bypassed. how do you know that they were bypassed? >> because i saw it on the screen. the correct word is inhibited. >> can you explain what inhibited means? >> you have four states of alarms. if you have normal operating conditions, and inhibited condition, which simply means that the sensor is active, it is sensing, and it will give the information to the computer, but the computer will not trigger an alarm for it. it will give you an indication, but it will not trigger the actual alarm. there is an override condition which means that the computer will not consider that sensor for any purpose. >> were there any alarms that were in the override position? >> none that i am aware of. >> this, and i am not familiar with the deepwater horizon's alarm system, if you did it in one area, what it shut in the air intake or black? >> that would be a bad analogy because there are no sensors in the engine room. how a system works is that there are several toxic and combustible gas sensors located in key areas. mainly around the drilling package. the drilling package being the key. secondary is all the air intakes. that could be from accommodations to engine rooms to machineries bases, anywhere that fresh air flows. all spaces are controlled with a band that forces air e.m. so that you can consistently circulate air. and when you get this in one zone, the zone should trip an emergency shut down and you should sound of the general alarm. -- sam the general alarm. -- a sound of the general alarm. >> do you know whym this was inhibited? >> i had inquired about a year ago, and the answer i got that -- was that they did not want people woke up at 3:00 a.m. in the morning due to false alarms. >> did you voice a concern to anyone about the possible safety issues of that? >> yes, i did it, to the senior officer on duty and my supervisor. >> who were they? >> one was tom fields, the supervisor that is no longer employed with transocean. the other one was steve, i would have to look at my notes for his last name. >> did anyone else know that the alarms were inhibited? >> in his normal course of duties, he would not see that page. >> who on the raid was in charge of that system? -- on the rig was in charge of that system? >> the operators were the first level. the second level would have been senior dp's . the third level would have been the chief mate. the next level would have been the captain and then often leave the oim. >> were the all aware that the systems were inhibited? >> yes, sir. >> if the systems were not inhibited, would have prevented the initial explosion in your mind? i know that this is your opinion. i am not saying you know the cause of the incident, but if these were in place, would it have allowed personnel to get into an area that was safe and would have caused an explosion on the engines? >> objection, i do not know that this person has the capability to -- >> when you get two detectors to go high in one zone, that is zone should trip. that will control the fire dampers in your power and your 11 switchboards. all of those things should trip. air supply for that affected zone should trip. also, you would sell the general alarm did it is how the system is designed. >> do you know, from your position, if the coast guard had ever given approval to have the systems inhibited? >> i do not know. >> i am going to move onto another subject. yesterday, we had a witness that referred to this well as the " wealth from hell from hell." is this common on the rig? ? >> yes, it is. we have experienced a well very similar to this where we got stuck and had to have wild well control come out and we have to sever the pipe by putting a shot into the pipe. we lost it will completely. -- the well completely. now we are in another quarter of another zone, but this well exhibited those same characteristics. we were getting tons of gas back all the time. we got stuck. we have to sever the pie. it was deja vu all over again. if i remember correctly, it was steven curtis who coined "the well from hell." he is now deceased. >> how long were you on the deepwater horizon? at any time did you hear a bp leader request that a driller bump it up? was he referring to? what's he was talking about the red of penetration -- >> he was talking about the break of penetration. within days, we blew the bottom of the well. >> the drill actually penetrated? >> yes. >> i think you had indicated that you saw chunks of rubber. is that correct? >> yes, it is. >> can you explain that? >> prior to the accident, which would have put it back about five weeks, i was in the central shaft -- in the drill a shafshf. while troubleshooting and working on that system, a representative walked into the back of the doghouse and he had in his hand a double handful of rubber. the only thing they're at that time is the only thing that is rubber down there and that is the annular. as he delivers these chunks of annular rubber, a look at the senior supervisor -- i look at the senior supervisor and i asked him what the hell that was. he said it is no big deal. that is normal. >> who is that? >> that would demarcate -- mark hague. it took me a few days to understand or to formulate why we were getting chunks of rubber back. there was an incident prior to that when we were in testing mode and the annular was in close around the drill pipe. i got a call from the nighttime tool pusher to come investigate whether or not there was an input to the stick to hoist the block wall the annular was closed a. he said that the blockade moved 15 to 20 feet. we need to know why. myself and the electrical supervisor conducted an investigation. it was an informal investigation. we got into the chair log data and dissected the data. what we determined was that one of the styx was moved into positive direction. we could not positively determined which stick. the tax system inside the log was not accurate enough. it's an awfully -- it simply said joy stick a and joystick b. we did confirm that there was joy stick input. -- joystick input. we confirmed that it was pushed but we could not confirm which stick. one of them have been given an input demand -- command. the annular was closed prior to chunks of rubber coming up. >> who is tommy daniels? >> tommy daniels is the electrical supervisor. keeping on the topic, on the panel, was there ever a problem with a pressure regulator valves? >> yes sir, there was 3 >> could you elaborate? >> at about the same time of the inadvertent stick movement, and there was an issue with the bop control panel purge system. how that system works is the dog house is purged, so it is positive pressure and the panel inside the dog shaq is also purged, so that you have two purged systems working simultaneously. another tool pusher had held the back door open to the doghouse for an extended period of time in the drilling shaft lost purge. -- and the drilling shaft lost purge. during this extended time frame of him having that door open, someone had opened both of the glass access doors to the b of the control panel, and it lost purge. i got a call from the ad on tower which was also one of the deceased, dawn clark. i was told that i was needed to the record immediately, that the panel was dead. buy it -- before i got up there, marquette already arrived -- mark had already arrived. i informed him that i had worked on that system on the last rig moved and that i had discovered what the issue was with it. i told him i could get it started an automatic so it would work properly. -- in automatic so it would work properly. the repair that i made was really not a repair. it was a true to the system to give it to start an automatic mode. once it started, it would keep running until it lost purge. when it loses purge, the whole purpose is to power it off because it thinks that gas may be in there or something that is combustible. i had trusted to run on automatic, so it was running in automatic mode for a period of weeks. it was not until it lost birds that turn itself off and i asked mark if he wanted me to started back in automatic. his exact words were, "no, and the damn thing has been in bypass four years. why did you even mess with it? as a matter of fact, the entire fleet runs in bypass." >> earlier, when i ask you a question about the chunks coming up, you made reference to another problem. >> yes. >> can you tell me what was going on? >> that system is located in the doghouse. it is the main operating point for the driller to control drilling functions. it controls everything from mud pumps to top drive, hydraulics, it controls everything. for three or four months, we have had problems with this computer simply locking up. we even coined a of the term " blue screen of death." inside the doghouse, there is "b chair." there are three chairs. we had ordered replacement hard drives from the manufacturer. we had actually ordered entire nearly new system -- an entirely new system to upgrade from the operating system that it was using. those computers were actually used on a very unstable platform. between the manufacturer and the rig, they could not get the bugs worked out of the new operating system. they could not get the old software to run correctly on the new operating system. our sister raid was going through those growing pains for a spirit we have already ordered the equipment, we were just waiting for them to make it work. in the meantime, we were limping along with what we have. we ordered a new hard drives. they came in and wee got them back running. the chair would run for two or three days, and then it would crash again. tommy daniels was instrumental. i cannot tell you how many hours or days he spent focused entirely on getting these chairs resolved. be new to his position as a logical supervisor, he took it upon himself that he would resolve the issue. -- as electrical supervisor, he took it upon himself that he would resolve the issue. >> the correct -- do you recollect if there was ever an incident when the "a chair" was down? >> not to my knowledge. >> do you know how long ago that incident was? >> not exactly. >> but it was down during an incident. >> it was discussed that the chair crashing caused the kick. the loss of the medications to the drilling package. they have no way to monitor any thing for several seconds. before they could get the "b chair" up, they got a kick. >> i want to go back to something we talked about earlier. when you talk about the pressure regulator valves, you said that it was a policy that it be in bypassed for the entire fleet. >> yes. >> the know anything about the inhibited alarms on the other fleet. is there any thing you can think of? >> when i was on the deep water millenium, i was dirt out of bed by an alarm. -- i was jerked out of bed by an alarm. >> thank you. we reviewed a few audits on the maintenance of the deepwater horizon. can you touch upon the pipe wrecking system -- racking system? >> yes. >> what was the condition of that? west german. >> jumpe-- junk. >> junk? >> yes. >>that was our number one downte caused. >> in some of your testimony, you said that it had been indicated that the raid had been scheduled to go to the shipyard for repairs. were you aware of that? >> yes, i was. >> were you going to be involved in that? >> my part of it would have been the complete rewiring of both pipe racking systems, top to bottom. >> who was on that to you? >> it would have come down from the electrical supervisor. >> were you aware of an audit that occurred? >> i was, but i was not a part of it. >> did anyone present those items to you? >> no, they didn't. >> one thing that the audit also mentioned was that there was a personnel retaining issue on board the deepwater horizon. is that accurate? >> yes. >> due to have any issues within your means responsibilities because of that? -- do you have any issues within your responsibilities because of that? >> no. >> whatever works have come and assist with maintenance was needed? >> yes sir. >> were they as confident as those others on the rig's? >> to my knowledge, yes. >> where did they come from? >> displaced from other rig's ad new hires. >> or the familiar with the systems they were working on under your supervision? >> the last two that i got from there were not. they were familiar with the electronics, but not our specific electronics. >> do you know who had control over personnel issues? >> no, i do not. >> thank you, sir. i have no further questions. >> mr. williams, just a couple of follow-ups. were you on the rig in 2008? >> yes sir, i was. >> were you familiar with the brown out of that occurred? >> yes, i was. >> can you explain what happened? >> i cannot. i was part of the deck crew, then. it was light outside for us. the only thing that we knew was that the crane shut down. >> you worked on the emergency disconnects system? >> no sir, i have not. >> no more questions, thank you. >> good morning. i just have a few questions. you indicated that you were familiar with the censors. >> yesterday >> would to be familiar with the location of those sensors on the vessel? >> yes sir. >> will be familiar with the locations of the intakes and automatic shutdowns on board the vessel? >> i could find everyone of them. >> you also indicated you were familiar with the pds system as well -- the eds system as well. >> yes. >> i have a couple of schematics of would like to put up and i would like you to go to those and indicate the location of where they are. >> yes sir. [no audio] >> i am going to give you a blue pin. just for purposes of identifying [audio difficulties. >> the diagramming that we have a pierre is the deepwater horizon safety plan. i would like you to go up to that diagram and take the blue marking pen and draw a circle around the gas sensors that you know are located on that level and around the engine room. >> can we pull this out further? >> certainly. >> that's better. >> the engine rooms themselves do not have gas detectors in them. >> are there some located on that level of the deepwater horizon? >> yes. >> can you circle where those locations are? . . >> the main debt vince up here on both sides of the rerig -- te main deck vents up here on both sides of the rick, we are not seeing that shell shakers on this level. >> when those alarms activated, where were you see the indication that they had activated? >> you would see the indication at that ccr and the ecr. >> could you take that blue pen and also draw locate -- -- >> circle around those locations as well? >> thank you, sir. he may sit down. -- you may sit down. i am going to ask a little more information about the gas detection system which you previously described as you experience it on the evening of the 20th. can you take is in a step-by- step fashion and describe how the gas detection system is set up. what happens when an alarm activates, and then the sequence of events that is set in motion by that alarm. >> any detector that is in a normal state can go to a high stake are eight high-high stake, depending on the level of gas or toxins that are present in the atmosphere. when you get to those detectors to go high-tide in one designated zone, or if you get one detector in two adjoining zones, the system esd's at that point should trip, shutting down the air and electricity to that space. at the same time, the general alarm should sound and individual alarm panel said in the ecr and ccr should also sound. >> or the engine rooms in a single zone or are there separate zones for each individual engine room? >> in regards to the fire and gas system, the engines only had a thermal detectors in them. they did not have a gas detector actually in the engine space. the only thing -- the only gas detection had for those is for the air intakes. the index had the gas sensors mounted to them. >> of each individual air intake has a gas sensor? >> not exactly. >> please explain. >> the two circles that i drew on the port and starboard side of the rig, those were " consider the main air intakes for the injuns basis. one side -- for the engine spaces. >> i believe we have been told that each one of the engine turbos has a separate air intake. is that correct? >> yes. >> does each one of those have a separate center? >> no sir, they do not, not to my knowledge. >> when you describe that you basically have to have to alarms activated the hi-fi state within the same zone, what would set that in motion in this series of events that you described on the 20th? >> what would set the alarms in motion? >> you explain that you started to hear the engine over speed and you had heard the gas alarms triggered. >> what i heard were local alarms on the panel. i had no idea what type of alarms they were. i could just to the beep, beep, beep on the panel. i did not know what alarms they were. i did not assume anything. i just knew i had a bunch of alarms coming in one on top of the other. as fast as i could acknowledge them, another one was going off behind it. >> you are not aware of for those alarms were going off as far as location? >> no idea. >> i believe you indicated that the gas detection system is also tied into the ventilation system automatic shutdown process. is that correct restore >> yes, sir pickett could you describe in more detail how that happens? >> we have 30 esd panels located throughout the rig. they are stand-alone, manually operated panels. there is i want to say between 12 and 14 buttons on that panel. each button corresponds to a set of functions that are going to occur if you press it. emergency shutdown for say the drilling package was esd no. 4. i am familiar with that because we just recently tested it. it would have shut down the power to the rich lore, basically, shut down the air- conditioning, hydraulics, the block, it shut it all down. and it shut down the air intakes. so it functioned in manual mode. we never tested the automatic feature, to my knowledge. i never tested the automatic function of it. we did not go introduce gas somewhere to see what it would do. it was just understood that it would work. >> you indicated that when this series of alarms would go off, if you had to in the same zone, it would trigger that esd system. with respect to shutting down a main engine, can you describe the sequence of events that would happen if those alarms triggered? >> if the fire dampers close, you lose your air intake to the engine and the engine would suffocate for lack of oxygen. i can say that thomas daniels explain to me one time that an esd got rid of him accidentally and shut down an engine ventilation intake, and it's up to the fire doors off the hinges in the engine kept running. it was looking for air, and it just literally sucked the doors off the hinges. so those esd's were never tested because of that risk. so the function of them was to snuff out the engines. if it cannot get air, it cannot run. >> are you familiar with the term read saver? kent -- rig saver? >> i honestly do not know. >> we had some testimony from the trechief engineer. is it your understanding, and i refer to that -- i believe is termed a standby generators. what is the difference between a stand by an emergency generator? >> an emergency generator would give you entire read power, where a standby generators is available to do very little, honestly. is there to assist you to get your main generators back on line. >> are you familiar with what happens if you have an engine running and a generator running, and for some reason it trips off the line, is there a standby ready to pick up the load all the time? in this case here, if the no. 3 engine tripped off the line and exploded for whatever reason, there was a designated secondary engine that should have started and picked up the load. >> correct. >> if in fact that secondary engine does not start, what happens? >> within 10 minutes, the standby generators should have cranked. >> he said within 10 minutes. i believe that is also what [unintelligible] explain to us. is it your impression that that restart within 10 minutes is basically automatic, that no one needs to push additional bonds or switches are turnabouts or anything else to make that happen? >> that's how i was b.g.e. that is how i was explained that the system worked. the only testing of the standby generator, to my knowledge, was a manual start, just make sure it would crank and run. >> when the chief engineer was here, he explained to us that when you all went down to the backup generators location to try to start, that he switched it from automatic imanuel. do you recall that happening? >> yes, sir. >> would that be the normal process as far as you understand it to start that generator? >> yes, sir. >> would that be because 10 minutes had not elapsed since the main shutdown -- since the shutdown of maine power plant gregoire >> we did not care about that. we wanted the generator on line. >> thank you. thank you, sir. i have no further questions for you at this point. >> mr. williams, he recently stated a few moments ago the outboard air intakes on the port and starboard side cover all three engine rooms on each side crest or >> yes, sir brigance we have received testimony earlier in the second hearing that there are two air intakes located under the risers feet engine room 3 and 4. are you familiar with those caused more >> yes, sir. they are directly under the riser stake. >> what do those vents fee? >> they are also feeding into the engine spaces. >> you have to import into out war on each side? >> yes, sir. >> all right, thank you. -- you have to importwo in boaro outboard on each side. >> the p a system would be the only other men'means of communication. it was anyone else monitoring at from the bridge? >> there was personnel on the bridge. >> so the people on the bridge, if they saw high-high alarm would then notify the people in those zones that there was a gas situation? >> that was their plan, yes. they were going to be the ones to interpret what the gas alarms did and make the determination themselves to sound the alarm or not. that is the way it was explained to meet your >> who were those people? what position did they hold? >> dpo and senior dpo. >> you indicated that there were some alarms that were bypassed, is that correct? the vessel has a bypass log that is maintained? >> not to my knowledge. >> so who tracked these bypasses? >> the inhibited alarm? to my knowledge, no one track it. >> so if there was other safety devices that was bypassed on the deepwater horizon, to your knowledge, there is no procedure in terms of documenting and remove it -- approving them, closing them out? >> there was for individual detectors. >> but there is no one bypass log that is maintained to track all the items? >> there was a log for individual detectors and sensors, a hand written log. as they would get an erroneous reading or a fault condition that would display, they would write in the logbook and they would call me so i could put it on my list. as far as the general alarm, no law that i am aware of. >> -- note lono log that i am a. >> should they approve these bypasses before they bypass? [inaudible] >> thank you. i was just asking was there a procedure to spell out how these bypasses are documented and tracked. >> just so we are clear on terminology, he is not using the word bypasses. i just want to make sure we are all on the same page. >> is just a general term i use, when the safety device or alarm is not in the proper condition, that some action is taken to bypass or inhibit it, or whatever it is. >> i am just concerned that there are two different modes, one being bypassed and one inhibited. we are talking about an inhibited alarm condition at this point. your question is whether the oim or the vessel master should know about this condition? >> these discrepancies, and how they are followed up and closed out. if there is one that you know. [inaudible] >> when i started in the et schaub officially in april of 2009, the fire and gas system was a wreck. there were several detectors that were faulty, overridden, and completely ignored out of the system due to lack of maintenance. i took it upon myself and my assistant to rectify that, and we got the fire and gas system back up to stufsnuff. i made a point every pitch, when i got out there, the first thing i did was go to the station and see how many detectors were inhibited, how many senses were inhibited, how many were overridden, how many were faulty. because that was my primary concern when i got to the rig, was my own safety. during on it, bp audit, i guess it was august of 2009, they discovered how terrible the fire and gas system was, and it was brought up in their audit. it was actually noted. during that time, there was no tracking of the fire and gas system, to my knowledge. there was one dpo done it this way and another when done it another way. there was no standard procedure for tracking fire and gas. after the audit came the log book. we had an actual, physical block that the senior dpo was the only one to write in it. he or she would write in it when the alarm faulted, what zone, location, everything, and then when it was repaired and who was repaired by, and the date, so that we cannot let fire in gas get in the condition it was when i started. does that answer your question? >> it helps paint a picture here for me. >> you mentioned the bp maritime insurance on it. did you participate in an audit? >> no sir, i did not participate. >> have you ever participate in any external audits or surveys? >> one, abs. >> can you elaborate on that? >> an abs represented came out and my entire function with him was fire and gas. he allowed me to pick which smoke detectors i wanted to put smoke to, which toxic and which combustible. he also ensured that we tested all six of the infrared they are located in the engines basis. we did test each one of those. it was not a pick and choose, we tested all the engines. he was satisfied with the results of the test. >> do you know whether that was for a class survey or was it relating to regulatory -- you don't know. the first part of your answer, something about he allowed you to pick and choose which ones to test customer >> yes, he did. he told me to pick, i recall six smoke detectors, and he gave me general areas of where to pick them, one from accommodations, one from a -- -- machinery space, one from an office space. he let me pick the numbers, and he stood by on the bridge while i went and shot smoke to it to make sure we would get the indication and get the alarm. >> if the abs surveyor was conducting that activity on behalf of the [unintelligible] do you think it was appropriate for him to allow you to pick and choose? >> i thought it was a little strange for him to allow me to pick the ones i wanted. it sure made it easier on me, i picked the easiest ones to get to. >> indicated that during the event when you were up on the bridge and you were asking the captain about starting the standby generators, and he was asking you what about the generator? >> no one asked me anything about the generator. >> he said what does the generator due, is that correct? >> the capt. inquiry about would give us fire pumps, a way to fight fire. >> should he have known that before hand? >> there are a couple of cab drivers out there we could ask the same question to. >> i appreciate that, sir. >> this is not something this man can answer. he cannot judge the captain. [inaudible] >> there is no reason for that. >> your objections are noted. please sit down, please. now, let's back up a little bit. who is responsible for the safety of the vessel and the personnel aboard the vessel, as you understand? >> it depends on whether we are latched up or under way. >> let's say, when you are on the way, who is responsible for the vessel and the personnel on board the vessel? >> the master. >> to the master of the vessel -- should the master of the vessel know what the standby generators is capable of supplying? >> i have not looked at his job -- it was something i heard him ask out loud. it was not directed at me. >> a lot of the testimony we have received relating to the problem incidence of the vessel. has america, how long have you serve that seek -- as a mariner, how long have you served at sea? >> just the three years with transaction. >> are you familiar with international said he management -- saved the management -- how long were you serving on the deepwater horizon? >> just shy of two years. >> did have a safety management system aboard the vessel? >> we had the hs manual. >> can you describe to me what you know about the hs manual? >> help, safety and environmental -- they changed it to h and s menu. that was our bible. that laid out what we could and could not do. >> what is in that? >> a little bit of everything. it is a very thick -- several hundred pages. >> does it describe the relationship between who is in charge, under what conditions they are responsible for that role in that manual question or >> i never read that page, if it is in there. >> any references on the vessel that relate to who is in charge? >> not to my knowledge. >> how about in the hs manual, does it describe how equipment discrepancies it documented, attract, and resolved? -- help equipment discrepancies get documented, track, and result? >> can you rephrase the question? >> does it describe how equipment failures it documented, track, and resolved? >> not to my knowledge. >> how about equipment maintenance schedules press mark >> no, that is not in there. >> so is there any guidance on board the vessel with regard to -- a lot of these maintenance issues, equipment discrepancies, a lot of people side as the reason it is in order. a lot of items did not been completed in that period of time. i just wonder whether there is a system that really documented and follow through on some of these items. so to your knowledge, there is not, on board the vessel? >> the rms system was the forum that i used to track my workload and to document what i have done for any system i have worked on. >> that is the rig management system. so you have the hs manual system that use and then the rate management system, but as for a juneau, in terms of the safety management system on board the vessel, you are not familiar with that quiz more cracks not a stand-alone document, no. >> so the risk-management system, he testified there was not a perfect fit. is that your experience also question or >> yes, it was overwhelming. >> it did not match up with the system on board the vessel, is that correct? >> a lot of the equipment they wanted us to do maintenance on, we did not have. some of the equipment that needed maintenance was not included. there was a lot of redundancy from the impact system, which was the previous maintenance system. when they did the merger, they imported all the data from the impact system, and the corporate [unintelligible] a lot of times would be identical to the ones that came over from impact. sometimes we would have four different listings for the same job. there was a lot of that that we were still working through. i personally put in probably 100 change requests over the previous three or four months, to eliminate some of our work load that was redundant or did not apply. >> so you got this rig maintenance system deployed on the vessel that was not a perfect fit. i understand from the testimony this morning about the software that also had problems. >> yes. those are not related, though. >> i understand, the overall picture of -- >> the chairs themselves work completely independent and isolated from the entire river network so there was no chance of infection, virus, hacking, there was no opportunity for that. >> and there is no system to track some of these bypasses or abnormal conditions of the system. do you think some of these things, these examples, resulted in the condition that you found with regard to the condition of the gas and fire system when you took over, or do you think there is another reason why the conditions that she found -- that you found -- >> i think it was a combination of reasons. >> i just have a couple of questions. i should have addressed this earlier. you indicated you are familiar with the damper assistance and in particular concerning the engine rooms. if i ask to go up to the diagram, could you indicate the position of those dampers? could you just go up there encircle the location of those dampers for me, please? thank you, you can sit down. >> are there any on the turbos? fire dampers? >> there are, across the back deck, but there is no fire and gas -- there are no detectors that it is back there that i am aware of. >> in the course of your responsibilities in respect to maintenance, did you have any duties with respect to maintaining the fire dampers? >> yes. >> what are those responsibilities? >> ensure that the signal given to open or close the deborah was received and that the actuator function. >> how frequently did you test those mechanisms? >> i did not, the marine department did. >> so you are responsible for the censors but not with respect to activation? >> yes. >> thank you. it has been about an hour and half, so we will take a short break here until >> at merrill that allen said that preparations are under way to move ships away from a cold storm. the camp on the broken wall would remain in place. the first effects of the storm could be filled -- fell early saturday morning . this is almost 25 minutes. let me go through the major platforms of there and do the quick update and i will be glad to answer any questions. last night, development of driller to and development drawriller three and disconnectd from the package. they are in the process of pulling the riser pipe. that is a huge section of pipe that comes in for a foot and 60 foot sections and it has to be disassembled and put on deck of the drilling rigs. that is going on as we speak. the second thing that is going on is the key 4000 -- is the q- 4000 which is attached to the blowout preventer. that has to be raised as well. the q-4000 since signals and operates the hydraulics. the goal is, once the operations are completed, it will be up to the masters to figure out the best location for storm avoidance to ride out the storm. the intention right now is to put equipment in the right place so they can resume operations as quickly as possible. this is not a hurricane. it is a tropical storm. i think that the forecast is in the low 40's. it will be a determination by the folks on the vessels. we would like to give back on scene as soon as we can. this will always be the people that are operating the vessels because they are operating the vessels. if conditions allow, it will remain through the passage of the storm. if not, we are prepared to leave the well site. this is based on conversations with bp. we will leave hydrophones at the base of the wells to be able to monitor to and we will make sure if there is in the leakage or seepage to the surface. while we may have to leave the site, we do not know that we will. we are prepared to optimize our surveillance platforms as we do that. this is a rule of thumb. the conditions get closer and we are looking at a very limited window, something like 48 hours. after the passage of the storm, we will reestablish operations. we will do the final casing run which is the last step in the bottom killed process. -- bomb killed process. -- bottom kill process. the reason we are running the casing first is because we do not want to put the mud in top. it might affect this. the relief well as about 40 feet away. we would expect that once the casing is run, we will wait for the -- we will continue the bottom killed. our personnel dictates their ability to come back and complete their other options as well. i overflew the site. we are approaching a hundred skimming of vehicles. there has been some question about the fate of the oil. there is a good and bad parts to that. sometimes, the increased activity can help indium ossification of the oil. you also have a chance that these are to opposite consequences. we are prepared to move out and aggressively attack this once the threat has passed. i'll be happy to take questions. [unintelligible] >> i think that we all have the same goals. we have the ability to protect not only people that the environment. it makes sense to take the equipment and protective. they are working with local leaders to come up with the best way to do that. it is hard to find high ground in some of these parishes. we know that we need to put this stuff where it is protected. we are happy to have that negotiation, but i think we are all in agreement. agreement that we need to put this equipment where it can be best maintained and be safe for following use. i am still haunted by the specter of flying in over your lens on september 6 as the principal federal official and looking down onto a parking lot full of buses that were flooded and not used for evacuation because they were not moved in time. next question. >> i have a question regarding the seep that was identified within 3 kilometers. that ap has developed a map that shows the two old wells within the radius that you described. i wonder if i could show you this mapping you could point out which of those trust you caught me without my glasses. we can follow up on that. >> again, about the complaints from the parish presidents. is there any sort of protection you can leave in place with this storm coming, or are they going to be completely unprotected? >> it depends on how you determine protection. >> booms and barges specifically. >> booms and barges do not stop storm surge. they will become incapacitated and cannot be applied once the storm has passed. we are talking about moving equipment to high ground so it is not harmed. i will read the technical believe the tactical decisions. it makes sense, just like it makes sense to evacuate personnel. you do not want that equipment to be down there in the damaged where they cannot use it. there are numerous examples of rolling stock that was not moved before katrina that became absolutely useless at that point. >> he said development drill one -- develop a driller 3 and develop thriller to. >> in terms of the other collection equipment, have those been pulled off already? >> they are all still there because they have to pull the riser pipes. they detached last night, but it -- it comes up -- it comes up in has to be stored on the drill rigs. they cannot move with 5,000 feet of riser pipe still hanging down. all that is going on right now. they have not physically left the scene. they are demobilizing equipment, raising riser pipes, and the q-400 has been disconnected from up pod. -- from the pod.>> is this a response to a threat, or are they the same? >> tropical storm bonnie has exceeded the threshold that moves it from a depression to a tropical storm. it would have to be over 75 miles an hour to be a hurricane. it is on the lower side of a tropical storm, just into the 40-mile an hour range. it is advisable for safety reasons to go ahead and move. these are decisions taken by platform, based on the survivability. this was all agreed to and we have worked very closely with our science team down in houstonwe will continue to get seismic data out of there for as long as we can. companies that are out there ultimately have the responsibility for the safety ofthey all have a threshold atit is all being chlorinated, but we have complete visibility of it. -- is all being coordinated. >> what is the time line, and at what point would to make the decision to pull back the vessels controlling therov's? three and q-4000 are detaching right now. they will position themselves at an optimal location to minimize the effect on them. if we are talking about cyclonic effect, the lower left quadrant is the place where you have the minimum impact. they will push this in them where they have the best survivability -- they will position them where they have the best survivability. sometime later on today, they will be finished with pulling up their equipment and the people in charge of the vessels will position them in the safest place. we are hopeful, and this depends on the conditions out there, that we can make a couple of seismic runs and continues to gather information to help us better inform the well integritybecause of the success we've had, we have agreed to leave the cap on, which we hope will oil being put in the environment while the storm passes. as far as the conditions there, we will remain on scene with the seismic vessels until they reach they will have time to evade the storm. i cannot give you an exact time. it will be conditions based. >> as i understand what you said, in the worst case, you would lose vision on the cap for 48 hours. >> that is an estimation right now. >> and when the vessels return, it would be another 48 hours until you can resume work on the relief well. >> correct. >> how will the media know if and when you lose eyes on the cap? >> if they have to leave the scene, we will make an announcement to that effect. we will only lose the rov and surface vessels there. we have hydrophones listening down the well for vibrations or anything that would indicate problems with the well integrity. we will be doing aerial surveillance and also in use -- >> miss thompson, your line is open. >> morning, admiral. can you tell me which vessels might stay, and at what see state could they stay? >> i think in general, the last vessels to leave will be the seismic survey vessels. i think we are in a break between the acoustic vessels. noaa vessel gunther is ready to deploy. there are three vessels operating the rov's. they will be the last to leave. >> i was hoping you could clarify a little bit more the functionality of the hydrophones that you were speaking up. they are remotely controlled so you will be able to monitor b.g.e. continue monitoring whatever they are picking up remotely even after you pull all the vessels out of the area? who is monitoring that, and our the signals being transmitted back to shore or wherever they are being monitored? >> i neglected to explain that fully, and i appreciate your asking the question. >> there will be recorder attached to it so if something were to occur, we could do the analysis after the fact, based on what we are finding. thanks for correcting that. if you are talking about real time, if the vessels have to depart the scene, are only real- time feedback will be aerial surveillance and satellite imagery. thank you for raising that. >> looking ahead, have you thought at all about whether you will be able to get a better flow estimate ultimately? is that something that will be a possibility now that the cap is likely to stay? >> i have gotten that question quite often. if we don't open the cap again, can we measure the flow rate? there are a lot of sources of data out there that we have already, including the pressure readings that have been taken. we believe there is adequate data out there to establish a flow rate. to be able to remove that capping stack to measure the float may not be the right thing to do. we have used all available data sources we have to get our best estimate of that flow rate, and we will continue to do that. >> can you explain the timeline your talking about, 48 hours that we can expect to see as the storm gets closer, and whether you are attempting to keep all of the valves on the cap close, or is there a chance that any might be open before the vessels leave the area? >> we are estimating only because of the winds predicted and the seas predicted, and when they might start to calm down, we roughly estimated could be 48 hours that we could be back on. it could be more or less depending on the actual conditions. we have made the decision that the vans will remain closed. the capping stack is on. --the vents will remain closed. we are convinced there is enough well integrity to allow us with a good basis for confidence that we can leave the well capped by the passage of the storm, and return as quickly as we can. >> now that you know that the drill ships will have to be redeployed, rather than talk about 48 hours to get started again, can you just give your best guess now on any new target dates for both the static kill and the ultimate bottom kill with the relief well? >> given the fact that they are on scene and ready to go, it will take about 48 hours to lay the casing, and then 48 hours after that we could proceed with the hydrostatics kill with the money going into the top, and five to seven days after that we can proceed with actually drilling into the annulus to begin the bottom killed. that is the sequence once we are on seen in ready to go. it will be conditions based, based on the wind anna sea state. right now it has been withdrawn to 10,000 feet and locked into place. they will have to go back and go backsubsea containment device in the well bore. that will all be dependent on when they get back on scene, and it will be conditions based. >> have three questions about the timing again. when the think the storm will reach the site of the spill? we did think ships can start returning to the site? when the thing you will have a a new estimate of the flow -- when do you think you'll have a new estimate of the flow customer >> we think we will first are feeling the effects of this early saturday morning. we think the passage of the front will occur sometime within 40 hours of saturday morning and early monday morning. we cannot be any more accurate and that right now because the storm is still a ways out. assuming that the storm passes within 48 hours, at some point after that we can look to returning the vessels back onto the scene. it is highly dependent on the weather, the wind, and the unseen conditions. regarding the flow rate, we have a lot of information from the pressure sensors that are there. we continue to develop more information about the integrity of the well itself and will continue to gather more information once we get to the point we can do the hydrostatics kill. that will tell us if we have a precipitous drop in pressure when the mud goes in. it will tell us if we really do have a leak that is producing hydrocarbons. we may or may not take the cap off in the duke, depending on conditions. we will use all the empirical the flow rate. >> this will be our last question. >> i wanted to talk a little more about the satellite and ariel information you will be able to get during the storm. as i enter stand it, you will not be able to establish anything about the condition of the well, whether oil will be blowing or not. is that right? . . and exhaust the fact that there might be a pocket of hydrocarbons that might escape that would account for the low pressure or in the absence, with support the assertion that this was. we were all confident enough. >> operator, think you for joining us. >> thank you. c-spanc-span[captioning performy national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> next, charles rangel talks about the allegations against him. then president obama discusses the legislative accomplishments from the week. then, house leader steny hoyer. tomorrow, a discussion on how much has been spent on house and senate races through the end of june. then the executive director of the right on line conference describes how on-line social networks and media sites are used to promote the conservative agenda. >> this weekend, the former "new york times," editor. >> i am concerned about moving from one media world to another. >> at a news conference, congressman charlie rangel refused to comment on the latest of elements in the ethics investigation. a subcommittee said the congressman has violated house rules. charlie rangel could face a trial. details will be announced next thursday. >> thank you for coming on such short notice. my lawyers are going to kill me because they say that the thing in my best interest is not to make any comment. i noticed that this morning there was a crew of television people. i assume with this large turnout that i should expect that they would be with me. i don't know how to say "no comment," and it is difficult for me to turn away reporters who are doing their jobs. for close to two years, i have said that we should wait until the ethics committee completes the investigation. they have completed their investigation and i am so pleased that they have and they reported this to the committee. this will be done before my primary election, before the general election, and a public explanation of what they have found as a result of the explanation will be made public. there is very little i can say because the round of confidentiality means that on monday, i will no longer deal to say wait until they complete the investigation. i have a very good investigation. it is awkward when he cannot give answers to questions and sometimes reporters filled -- feel compelled to go beyond what i can do. why have a press conference if you're not going to answer any questions. i told you what i have had to say. i do have congressional work to do. i can tell people that we will be able to move forward together. if there are any questions that are in conjunction with what i just said, i will be happy to take them. >> [inaudible] >> i have to consider the process i'm going through and respect to this. anything that i would say that would impact on other people that has no control, i cannot make any comment. i cannot go beyond the statement that i am here to tell you something that is awkward. all of the allegations that you see in the newspaper are the allegations that charles rangel referred to the ethics committee for what purpose, to investigate. this is awkward to explain that to your kids and grandkids what you see at the front page. i am in the kitchen and i am not walking out. >> [inaudible] >> first of all, i am taking this one step at a time. i will be glad to see what happens on thursday. i am not the one that called this. >> [inaudible] >> i want you to be dealing with facts, you will be able to get the report, i want you to analyze it. i am not asking you to be fair. >> [inaudible] >> no, how, no, no one would be looking forward to something like this. when a person is elected to public office, there is a higher level of honesty and openness and transparency that they have to uphold. i want to make sure that people know who i am and who i'm proud to be. >> what kind of response have you gotten from other democrats? >> i don't see how this could be very useful in the purpose that i asked you to come here. that is subject of stuff, i am here to talk about facts. and i am here to tell you that i don't have to tell you, it could you please wait until the investigation is over? >> [inaudible] >> i am glad that you raised the question because i will not explain any personal relationship i have with my family, my friends, my his vigilance. they are coming the othetogethe. >> [inaudible] >> i can answer that, that question is to refer to my attorney. >> [inaudible] >> that has nothing to do with it. >> [inaudible] >> i wish them good luck. >> do you feel you did anything wrong? >> i wish feeling had something to do with the facts but it doesn't really. >> the you envision getting to the primary? >> four people have filed and i will not attempt to get them off the ballot. as long as they are running, i am running. then again, i run every day of every week of every month. >> is anything in this process we decided not to run for reelection? i think that that is about it and i apologize for not being able to go further. this thing is coming to a head. this is annoying, hurtful, harmful. we will see what we have to work with. thank you so much. i would like everyone to know how all forward is to constantly have to say, please wait until the committee completes its investigation. i cannot think of anything that relieves me more than to be able to say to my constituents, this is the result of the investigation so that they would know who charles rangel really is. those of you that know me know that saint no comment is difficult for me. -- saying no comment is difficult for me. i can only say without dispute that i will not let you down. we will discuss the findings. thank you. >> [inaudible] >> you are getting involved in something i've not been trained in. thinking so much for coming. >> thanks to all of you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> the house subcommittee responsible for determining whether congressman rangel violent the new rules will convene on thursday at 1:00 p.m. eastern. now, president obama speaks about three new bills he signed into law this week. an overhaul of financial regulations, an effort to reduce wasteful government payments, and an extension of unemployment benefits. he also calls on congress to send him a bill to help struggling small businesses. >> i want to talk about the progress that we made this week on three fronts as he worked to repair the damage to our economy from this recession and to build a stronger foundation for the future. first, i signed a wall street reform bill that will protect consumers and our entire economy from though recklessness and irresponsibility that led to the worst recession since the great depression. want to make sure that people get this straight and honest information that they need before they take out a loner opening credit card. it will also end taxpayer belts of wall street firms and give shareholders a say in executive compensation. the need for this reform was underscored by the report issued this morning identifying a number of companies that continue to pay out lavish bonuses at the height of the financial crisis even if they have millions of tax payer dollars. also i want to crack down on improper payments. we have payments there going to prison inmates, or people that of died a long time ago, etc. i've set a target to save at least $50 billion by 2012, we simply don't have any money to waste. we finally overcame the blockade of a partisan minorityxd. taken together, we made enormous progress of this week. we want to provide immediate assistance to people looking for. our goal is to make sure that they can find a job. we are looking to cut taxes and expand lending to the small businesses, our most important engine for hiring and for growth. this might come up for a final vote in the senate in the next few days. it will set up a new lending fund to help community banks help small businessmen and women. we will help states encourage more private sector loans to small businesses and industries like manufacturing or construction that have been especially hard hit by this recession. we will expand our most successful small business initiatives and more than double the size of loans that small- business owners can take out. this will help to eliminate capital gains taxes entirely for investments in small businesses. last night, after a series of partisan delays, the senate took an important step in supporting the lending fund. i want to think the senators for their leadership and advocacy on behalf of the millions of small business people. i was heartened that some of the senators crossed party lines. i hope that we can finish the job and pass a small business plan without delay. the small business men and women who i talked with every day, they cannot afford any more political davis -- political games. they sent us here to do what is best for the u.s. and all of its citizens what the democrats, republicans, or independence. in other words, they sent us here to govern. that is what i hope we will do in the remaining days before the congress takes its recess. thank you very much. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> steny hoyer talks about the economy and job creation. after that, the coast guard and the interior department investigation into the gulf of mexico oil rig explosion. >> this weekend come not the summit for libertarian and conservative ideas, the eagle forum summit. then on sunday, the reading festival. authors talk about their books on fdr, and his legacy. >> now, steny hoyer outlines the democrats' legislative agenda heading into the november midterm elections. he also talks about democratic initiatives for the u.s. manufacturing sector and contrast democratic policies dating back to the great depression. center for american progress action fund posted this month. >> i am the executive vice president. but to me say we are very honored to have house majority leader steny hoyer with us here this morning to talk about the and number one question in the country today. what is the best plan to create high-quality jobs and long-term economic growth? a poll found that half of americans surveyed across all the political spectrums as the most important problem facing the country today. 31% said the economy and 22% saying unemployment in dodd and sing their problem. the economy is job one projec. >> it was one on progress on every single indicator. the bush era was one of flooding returned. in contrast to the $22 million a create a climate of growth under the bush administration was worst in any positive cycle in 60 years even for the onset of the great recession which is not causes over a million jobs. the boom bust course has failed. to many seem to want to return to the policies of the past. the new administration congress is hard of work to repair the broken foundation to stabilize the economy and repairing the oversight and beginning the process of ending the kerb. -- curb. we must turn off all our attention to rebuilding a new economy. we must attend to the quality of the job center being created. we must step back and develop a national strategy for long-term job creation. professor of leadership has spurred growth in which investment and technology that support our nation's investors as they create quality jobs for american workers. no one understands that objective and that strategy better than our speaker today. steny hoyer has been a great friend. he needs very little introduction. but me briefly say he started his career in 1966 when he both graduated from georgetown university law center and won a seat in the maryland senate. in 1975, he would elected president of the maryland s. in '81, he is elected to represent the congressional district. with speaker pelosi, he has kept an unrelenting focus on america's struggling workers. we look forward to hearing his thought about the right course to take. please come and join me in welcoming steny hoyer. [applause] >> thank you very much. i am always pleased to be here. i am particularly pleased to be here facilitated by the action fund. thank you very much. i had the opportunity to speak before we came in. i am always pleased to be here with my good in here from martin frost. thank you for being here. america has faced its share of trials, at times when not as our economy but our nation seemed in decline. each time with ingenuity, hard work, and are distinctly american optimism, we have built our way out and we have to emerge stronger. no one doubts this as one of those tested times. the question will be in front of us is not where we are. it is where we go from here. it is a choice between too dramatically different direction. our decision comes down to three questions, how far we have come, what remains to be done, and which party and will keep moving us forward? first, how far have we come? but consider an alternate tester. america is facing the worst the economic crisis in a generation. americans are losing almost a hundred thousand of -- $800,000 per month. businesses are forced into laos. innovative start-ups cannot start up. a new president and the democratic congress are struggling for solutions. negotiations break down. congress remains paralyzed. in the end, we do nothing. as a result the nonpartisan cbo tells us we would be looking at 2 million additional unemployed americans. the economy would likely have continued to shrink. retirement savings would have remained devastated. the global recession would have become catastrophic. it was that bleak picture that led former reagan economic adviser martin feldstein to endorse substantial deficit spending to pump life into the economy saying "i do not think we have a choice." and a thinking about how worse- in is not much comfort to anyone who is struggling to find work. any honest look to our economy has to come -- has to start with them on this conversation about the disaster we have at this time averted. for a year-and-a-half ago, economists were talking in all seriousness of what the risks of a second great depression. instead, would stabilize the financial system, injected demand into the economy, and created jobs. in fact, almost as many jobs in the first six months of this year as did george bush created in the eight years of his presidency. the private sector as added jobs for six straight months. by comparison come into more than two years after the end of the last recession for our economy to return to the sixth consecutive month of job growth in the private sector. that progress data would vital investments not is in our immediate recovery but in the foundations of prosperity for years to come. the are rebuilding roads, railways, bridges. using funds to help local governments invest in infrastructure projects in the most. we are investing in our children's future. we can teachers in the classroom and have more young americans reach their goal of a college education. we are helping doctors and hospitals computerized medical records so patients can be treated even more effectively. we have found a clean energy technology that will help save energy and become less dependent on foreign oil. technology that will respond to needs in real time. just as the internet was created was support of the government, today will bring the groundwork for transformational technologies that can shape our economy and create jobs. for 98% of americans, taxes are now lower than they were in any single year under president obama. despite republicans' efforts to demonize the policies, it cannot refuse the nonpartisan analysis that shows that they have been responsible for as many as 3 million jobs. they cannot enjoy those investment in a fit in their own communities, not in the house minority whip himself as toasted 3 job fairs erotically featuring employers 11 fitted from such federal funds. it is a policy he voted against. in fact, while house republicans voted against, more than half of the republicans have taken credit for them in their districts. brazil has signed into law a higher at the cut employer taxes for every unemployed worker hired back. democrats have also passed legislation helping to support $28 billion in new lending for small businesses. we hope to do another 30 elem leverage into 300. senate republicans do not see it that way. we have protected americans from abusive credit card lending practices, making the biggest practices and lending his street without adding to the deficit it will have an important jobs impact. it will put american enemies on a more even playing field. president obama has just signed the floor and legislation to prevent the referee's back on the field and told wall street accountable for the reckless conduct a that a crash our economy. wall street reform will create a bureau and make sure that borrowers and lenders live up to the common-sense standard of responsibility and honesty. it and tarp and interest because of any financial crisis will be borne by the financial industry, keeping taxpayers off the hook for future bailout, which was requested by president bush. wall street reform will remove economic uncertainty, hoping to free up a $1.80 trillion in cash sitting on the sidelines. it is poised to be redeployed. there is company did to uncover. the more our financial system gets back toward its core purpose. it helps allocate capital for families investing in their future into entrepreneurs investing in job creation. all of those policies have a common thread. after a lost decade, middle- class americans now have congress and administration that is helping it to make up lost ground. . . confronts today. in fact, the chairman of the republican congressional campaign committee his job is to recruit members to come to congress to make policy, said and i "we need to go back to the exact agenda." this means of course the bush agenda which has left us in the deepest economic recession we have seen in three quarters of this century. by almost all indications, it was an agenda that failed. that is the agenda to which the chairman of the campaign committee says the republicans want to return. democrats are putting forward new ideas to drive our recovery, particularly when it comes to our vital manufacturing sector. that is why house democrats are launching a "make it in america," agenda. manufacturing. for generations -- for generations americans looked to the sector as a source of economic vitality and good paying jobs, and a source of pride. america has always been proud to be a company that makes things. somewhere that jobs and that -- those jobs and that pride are a thing of the past. democrats don't believe that. we're committed to regaining america's e-manufacturing edge. the make it agenda will encourage industry and improve msg infrastructure and innovation and strengthen the american work force and create a level playing fill for american manufacturers that compete worldwide in this flat world of which tom friedman spoke. the make it in america agenda is made up of a range of bills that will come to the floor in the coming weeks, including enhancement act which passed the house on wednesday. it makes it easier for american companies to get the materials they need to manufacture goods here. the sectors act which passed this week, it foreigns -- forls partners to train workers no needed jobs. the national strategy act which will direct the president to develop a manufacturing strategy for the nation every four years. the -- to end the trade deficit now act which will lead to policys to reduce the trade deficit. the clean energy and technology manufacturing and export assistance act will insure clean energy firms have the information and assistance they need to compete at home and abroad. the ways and means committee will hold hearings next month, actually if september on -- the issue of china's currency policy, legislation introduced by tim ryan. these bills of course are just a start. this is not an agenda just for the balance of this year. this is an agenda for the long-term. there's more to come. many house democrats are coming forward with ideas that can contribute to our manufacturing revival. let me say, i welcome ideas from the republican colleagues and for the american public, particularly the msg sector itself. all of these efforts will bolster, bolster president obama's plan to support two million more jobs by doubling u.s. exports in five years. it is a plan that is showing success with exports up significantly over last year. and they will build on the impact we already had since the beginning of this year. our private sector has actually created 100 -- 136,000 new manufacturing jobs. i hope the republicans as i said, will join us in working toward strengthening and expanding and growing our manufacturing sector. i'm glad that many of them supported the manufacturing enhancement act. the sector's act in the house. there seem to be reluctance but ultimately they reconsider those no votes and turned a yes. i am glad that we're seeing some bipartisanship in this make it america agenda. the republicans have an 18-month pattern of standing with near u nan mussness. these are waiting to be enacted. theyifies partisan problems. and one has won bipartisan support in the past. for instance we help business develop new technologies. we would further invest in science and technology and engineering and math education. we would encourage entrepreneurship and investment by letting businesses deducts startup expenses and exempting small business capital gains from taxation. we would establish a now fund without decreasing the deficit to help banks lend to small businesss. because 45% of small businesses seeking liens were turned down last year. we would stepped as well the r & d credit. we wouldnd stax breaks that encourage corporations to outsource american jobs overseas. republicans are fighting to keep that loophole open. democrats want to close it and keep more jobs here in america. republican obstruction has been extended to unemployment insurance as is so well known by the american public. a time when there are still five applicants for each new job opening, unemployment insurance is one of the most effective ways of stimulating demand because of -- of course it is quickly spent because it is essentially needed. republicans claim we can't afford it. i'm pleased that the -- president obama was able to sign the unemployment bill that we passed yesterday. that money will be coming into the economy. but also from a moral standpoint, it will provide suss stenn nance for families in deep distress still this the economy. take this msnbc analysis of congressman's session and senator cornen on meet the press just last weekend. quote, both sessions and corner were unable or unwilling to discuss what republicans -- would special do on the deficit. when nbc's david gregory demanded specifics and details of painful choices, republicans were willing to make none. sessions didn't of a single one. that's the same thinking that condoned foreign borrowing under president bush and did severe harm to our long-term prosperity. democrats understand that short-term deficits have buenes ces for our recovery. in my view continue to be necessary. if we're going to bring this economy back we will never as i said in a speech a u few weeks ago solve the deficit problem if we don't solve building and growing the economy challenge. >> for the same reason the house will stepped middle class tax cuts for the next year, but we expect the senate to act first as speaker pelosi said yesterday. all of the job creation measures i discussed along with the middle class tax cuts represent only a small fraction of our real long-term deficit problem. we do have hard choices. hard choices to make about our fiscal future and i've spoken about them as i said a few weeks ago in detail. but in making those choices, we have to steer between two grave mistakes. one would be following republicans that want to use our structural deficit as an excuse to put breaks on recovery. while millions are constitutional unemployed. that would put more americans out of work p-. it would actually increase deficits we're trying to reduce. another mistake would be putting our -- ourselves deeper into debt by making tax cuts for the wealthy permanent. republicans seem to be able to hold both of these positions at the same time. a combination of reckless borrowing and middle class neglect, that frankly characterized the previous administration. that brings us to the last question. we pulled our country off the edge of disaster. we know what needs to be done for the americans who are still struggling. finally, therefore, the question becomes which party can you trust to do that. we know what economic philosophy looks like in practice. cut taxes for the wealthiest, cut regulations that guard against everything from wall street excess to oil company's negligence. we know what happened when they had unchecked chance to implement them a few short years ago. they drove our economy into the ditch. the deepest ditch we have been in three quarters of a century. they created a decade of stagnant incomes. during the eight years of the bush administration as i said, the worst job record since herbert hoover. a stark contrast with the clinton administration that created 21 million private sector jobs in 96 hons as opposed to the net 1 million jobs created during the 96 months of the bush administration. oaf eight years of president bush, our economy added just a million private sector jobs. it was president bush who ran a 2.13 trillion dollars in deficits. and wiped out the biggest surpluss in american history. an inheritance of 5. trillion dollars, a national debt of some five plus trillion dollars turned into a national debt of 10-plus trillion dollars. that record is not an abrasion how far. a deck -- in decade after decade, the democrats performed better than on the economy than republicans. some may be surprised to hear that. market analysis -- analysts larry greenberg studied administrations from john kennedy to george bush and found that, and i quote, jobs grew more slowly for each of the republicans than for any of the democrats. princeton political scientist larry bartal studied administrations from truman to bush and he found to quote a summary of his work, quote, when a republican president is in power, people at the top of the income distribution experience much larger real income gains than those at the bottom. by contrast, he said, democratic presidents generate higher income gains for all income groups. in 2008, the "new york times" asked this question. and i think this is such a compelling comparison. imagine that starting in 1929 you had to invest exclusively under either democratic or republican administrations. how would you have failed? you make your choice in your head right now. you're probably not surprised at what the conclusion was. under republican administrations, your 10,000 dollars invested exclusively in republican administrations -- if you include the hoover administration would have net -- netted you today, $11,000 733. that's probably not fair. let's take out the hoofer administration which was argue my the -- hoover, which is arguably the worst. let's take that out in all fairness. if we're charitable and take that out, then you $10,000 investment exclusively during the course of republican administrations over the last 70 years would have resulted in $51,211. now i don't know how -- how good you think that is of a return over 0e years, but -- under democraticed a strigses, if you taken that same $10,000 and invested it exclusively under democratic administrations, that $10,000 would be worth $300,671. so said another way, 600% more than if you exclusively had that money grow under republican administrations. so when we talk about -- about republican economic failure, we aren't talking about a passing trend. notwithstanding the fact that i can point out to you that during the course of the clintonned a strigs the dow grew 226%, the s&p grew by about 290% and the nasdaq grew by almost 300%. the aim statistics are all negative during the bush administration. from decade to decade and today, democratic policies have supported innovation, the interest of working people and a better standard of living for all americans. republican policies have objectively favored the privileged and left working americans behind. we may write that off if republicans gave any indication that they reconsidered policies that cretted it. again, as they put it themselves, quote, we need to go back to the exact same agenda. i don't think americans had that in mind and i don't think they have that now. when you remember republican behavior over the past months, that going back to the agenda makes perfect sense. apologizing to b.p. when democrats held it accountable for the disaster in the gulf, comparing to the economic crisis to the size of an ant as boehner did and working for wall street reform and portraying it as a bailout and putting tax cuts for millionaires ahead of the unemployed, i'm proud to put our party's middle class record against theirs any day. but our work is not done. we have stood up to wall street, brought access to affordable health care to all americans, reinstated pay-as-you-go on fiscal discipline and gone to bat for job creation in the face of ideological opposition, again and again and again for the last 18 months. democrats can tell working americans with confidence and with pride, we have stood for your interests. and we met crisis with the optimism that defines our country. and it is best -- at its best and can make a great nation even greater. so often, our leaps have come out of the darkest moments. as president obama said and i quote, in the midst of civil war we laid railroad tracks from one coast to another and a twilight struggle for freedom led to a nation of highways an american on the moon and explosion of technology that shapes the world to this day. and today, if we choose shared growth, over spoils for a few, and our common interest over the special interest, this then too could be a remarkable moment in which we build our way out. we will make it in america once again. thank you so much. [applause] >> thank you. i'm going to start with one question. i'll ask the first round of questions, could i see questions from just the media. if you could wait until a mic comes to you and please identify the organization you're with. before that, let me ask you a question about the tax cuts issue. i see this as emerging to the forefront. help me understand the -- the argument of those who would say that we should be at this point renewing the -- the upper class tax cuts and contrast that, make clear, because i think people are fuzzy, what is it that your party is argue og -- arguing for? and contrast to republicans. >> in 2001 and 2003, the are thinks put in place a policy that cut taxes but reinstated those taxes the next year so they would go up. we have indicated that we believe that -- that at this point in time, with recession, that -- that we ought to have no increase in taxes on middle income working americans. clearly at a time of recession, you want to make sure that working people have the -- the ability to support themselves and their families. so we're going to -- going to -- complete -- or continue the tax cuts for middle income americans. how do we define middle income americans, those making $200,000 or less individually or $250,000 or less as couples. with respect to the -- to the tax cuts for the wealthiest in america, we have a severe deficit problem. those who are doing well will not have their lives adversely affected by continuing to contribute at a rate that -- that provides for the bringing down of the deficit and continuing to invest in the growth of the country. that's the policy that we're going to be pursuing. >> thank you for that overwhelming applause. >> all right. >> middle class taxpayer who is in the back of the room. >> so, please if you bring the mic here. thank you. >> kim dixon at reuters. following up on that a bit. you said that the house -- will pass, will renew the middle class tax cuts for one year. could you talk about the significance of the one year. >> i don't think i said one year. i think there's been 134 discussion about that. that has not been decided how long that -- did i say it in my speech, i don't know that i said it -- >> the next year actually. >> you said it for the next year. >> certainly for the next year, but not necessarily for just -- >> just the next we're. >> one year. >> that's in discussion. the speaker indicated and i think as a result of our discussions with the senate, the senate i think will probably move first on the -- on these and we'll see what the senate does in terms of time frame. we want to make it very clear that the -- that the working americans will not receive a tax increase. >> so you haven't made a decision on how long -- >> no. >> that's still in discussion. >> on the timing of when you'll take this up. before or after the election? >> we're waiting to see when the senate acts. we have one week left to go before the august break. the senate will be in for a couple of weeks. we'll see what they do and we could determine when we get back what roukt we have from them. also the media. thank you. >> thank you. jamie from u.s. trade. i wanted to follow up on the manufacturing issues you were talking about. it seems like the house is poised to act on a number of bills as you enumerated. there doesn't appear to be action on the senate. how -- can you help us understand this? how do you defend defense the accusation -- >> across the board from the senate? >> on manufacturing particularly, how do you explain to someone that this isn't just election politician and these bills really have no chance of actually becoming law this year? >> as i said, absolutely is not election politician. we believe that -- first of all, we have invested a great deal of money in building the economy. we think we had progress on doing that. i make the distinction between progress and success, success is when we have eight million jobs for those people that lost their jobs in the previous election. 2.8 million lost their jobs in the last year of the bush administration. i want to contrast that to the 1.9 million jobs that were created in the last year of the clinton administration. we're making progress but we have not yet had success. this is a long-term -- a -- agenda for bringing back msg. nobody is going to turn a light switch on and all of a sudden have that happen. we need to adopt policies and a stredge to -- thed a stwration needs to come up with polic

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