Minister testified on legislation that would create a handgun freeze. I call this meeting to order. Welcome, everyone to meeting 36 of the house of Commons Standing Committee on safety and national security. We are meeting on the traditional territory of the algonquin cape. Todays meeting is in a hybrid performance format. Members are attending in person and remotely using the zoom application. The second hour to answer questions from members. I welcome you all and i now invite mr. Mendicino to make an opening statement. Thank you, mr. Chair. , id like to thank the members of the committee with the good work they have done with respect to bill c21. I am accompanied by my team from the department, including rob stewart, the deputy minister, and others. We have chief Deputy Commissioner kelly larkin and the commissioner. The scourge of gun violence which has been impacting our country for many years. Signaled to this committee that it is up to us as parliamentarians to Work Together to reverse the Alarming Trends that have seen increases in gun violence, specifically handgun violence. It is up to this committee not only to study carefully tangible laws which are designed with the intent of reversing those trends. But to also discuss efforts were taking to stop illegal trafficking of guns at our borders. It is up to the members of the committee to support the work of parliament in examining the root causes of gun crime. Which requires to work very closely with many partners, including grassroots organizations so we can stop gun crime before it starts. I look to you and the various perspectives you will be bringing from your own constituencies to have thoughtful discussion about that today. It is clear, wherever you sit, regardless of the side of the aisle or partisan strength, that the status quo will do wont do. Every time i meet someone who has dealt with the loss of a club one, or has been harmed by violence, we await to them to do more. These are the hardest conversations i have in my capacity as a member of parliament. Ive had the privilege of speaking with the families of victims from truro and the quebec city boss, the polytechnique, and danforth, my hometown. There is not a day that i dont think about them. Not a single day. It is a singular motivation for me in this job to try and find a way to ensure those tragedies dont occur again. And it is a conflict problem. There are no easy or Simple Solutions to eradicating gun crime, i readily acknowledge that. But from where i sit, and where the government sits, we need a comprehensive strategy. That strategy is composed of a number of pillars, one, smart locks. Assault rifles have no place in our communities. That is why we banned them two years ago, and are in the throes of implementing the Buyback Program which will get assault style rifles out of our communities. We need smart laws like bill c21 which will introduce a National Handgun freeze, which will introduce yellow and red flag protocols to reverse the trend and connection between Domestic Violence and genderbased violence in the presence of guns, which has gone up in the last couple of years. We need a bill that will provide additional tools to fight organized crime. One of the things bill c21 will do is increase maximum sentences from 10 to 14 years for hardened criminals who try to terrorize communities with guns, as well as providing additional surveillance tools to Law Enforcement so we can interdict individuals trying to traffic guns. This bill does all that. It also ensures we deal with the challenges around straw purchasing, so that criminals can be stopped from trying to use alternate individuals to purchase guns lawfully, and have them transferred to them. And there is much more in there. I know we are going to date into some other substantive issues, but it is important we studied this bill. Important that we take steps necessary to stop the growth of guns and handguns, which is the number one type of gun used in homicides in the country. Thats not all were doing. I have said on many occasions at this committee, in the house of commons, in public, that this government is invested in enforcing our borders. Over the past year, we have spent over 321 million to enhance our borders. This is an investment that gives the rcmp and Border Services agency more tools. We work with our american partners. We have good cooperation. I know this is a challenge. Despite all the progress we have achieved at the borders, we have to do even more. And im always ready to work with all colleagues at this committee and in the house to come up with concrete solutions to achieve greater progress of the border. Finally, we have to put an end to firearms related violence. Thats why our Building Safer Communities Fund is such an important opportunity to work with local organizations. To tap into their experience, to identify where the risks are. To identify where those who are most exposed and can be exploited by organized crime and other elements to make the right choices instead. And we are accelerating the rollout of that fund, as weve been doing the last months, which i think will help round out a strategy that has to become rancid. Once again, i want to thank all the members of this committee for their thoughtfulness and work. I look forward to reading and studying this bill, and hopefully passing this bill as quickly as possible so we can stop gun violence once and for all. Merci. We will proceed directly to questions at this point. Please go ahead, six minutes. Thank you for being here today. Minister, Police Forces, im hearing they are stretched quite thin, are you hearing the same thing . Thank you, there is no doubt we need to support domestic Law Enforcement. Thats one of the reasons why sorry, what im asking is, Police Forces are stretched thin, they are having challenges keeping up with crime. Do you agree . I was trying to answer, and i think i am being responsive to your question, which is i acknowledge we need to support domestic Law Enforcement which is what we are doing through our antigangs fund. Those resources filter through to Domestic Police and will continue to do that. So yes, you would agree resources are stretched t in. I am alarmed, which is why we cannot accept the status quo. There were one hunt of 24,000 additional Violent Crimes last year, are you familiar with that as well . I am, which is why we presented bill c21. The vast majority of crimes are committed by criminals with firearms, do you agree . Which is why we invested 321 million since last year and seized a Record Number of guns of the border. The liberal platforms stated your confiscation regime which cost 400 million dollars, thats considerably more money than you are investing in Additional Border protection. I would begin by saying assault style rifles have no place in our communities, which is why we want to implement a Buyback Program. Will you be spending 400 to 600 million, thats more than you have invested in recent years, also more than your Community Fund . First, we plan to be very transparent around the cost of the Buyback Program. I want to be clear to you and all members, that there is no way to put a price on a life lost. All you have to do is look into the eyes of any of the families that has lost somebody to a assault style rifle. We are seeing a rise of violence in cities. You are investing considerably less money in border enforcement, and community protection, although you acknowledge that is the primary source of gun violence in our country. I am a firearm owner. We undergo rigorous licensing processes, would you agree . We do. I respect law abiding gun owners. You may be familiar with the long gun registry from the 90s, it ended up costing 1. 2 billion. The estimate that they may be spending 400 to 600 million, our estimate is up to 5 billion. You didnt mean 500 billion . You never know. There is considerable questions to be had about how much you are spending on the confiscation regime. Im concerned your government will be redirecting Police Resources which we have outlined, are stretched fan. Thin. You are planning to redirect rpmc and possibly other resources to your confiscation regime. That is based on false assumptions. If i can be permitted to answer your question, ensuring that Police Services who operate within promotional boundaries have the resources necessary to enforce laws is not conducive to buying back assault style rifles. Those guns were designed with one purpose, and that is to kill. We believe taking them out of our communities i would urge you to reconsider redirecting Police Resources. It will further endanger our community. We respectfully disagree. Mr. Mohamed, please go ahead, six minutes. Thank you for being here today. Minister, i want to thank you for bringing this bill forward. Our job is to take legislation and make it better. What id love to be able to do is id love to know if you are open to strengthening the legislation in front of us to think about ghost guns, how we can prevent this from becoming an larger problem. We may be dealing with a problem that looks a certain way, but this is a problem we will be facing five years from now and can we think about that were meaningfully . Through the chair you, i would say your question is an important one. That is dealing with the advent of ghost guns, which is based on new, cheap plastic technology. In visiting your community and having met with both the mayor as well as the police chief, they have both identified the proliferation of ghost guns as an important priority to deal with. I should tell you that i have had the chance to meet with our american counterparts, including at the fbi headquarters at quantico, where i have seen this technology firsthand on display. And it is imperative that you study this issue. I believe it is one of the things that were going to need to tackle not only legislatively, but with Additional Resources. Thats why the investments we have put at the border, including 300 21 million since last year alone, is equipping rcmp and other Law Enforcement partners with technology they need to intercept and detect this new type of ghost gun, so we can stop it before it gets into our communitys. The short answer is, im always open to receiving any recommendations you or others may have with regards to strengthening the bell. Just digging in further, talking about component parts, one of the elements we will hopefully digging into is, how do we think about regular the manufacture of component parts, is this something you would consider in the deliberations . I know that splitting up the different components of a gun is one of the Ways Organized crime attempts to subvert detection method border, or other places within our communities. And that it is one of the more technical aspects of the bill that you may wish to study, and put forward in the form of a recommendation. Our overarching objective remains to stop gun violence, that means taking a look at various ways and innovative technologies, including through ghost guns, the different components that can be assembled that meet the definition of a prohibited or unrestricted firearm, so we can keep communities safe. Lets switch gears, there are those that are opposed to legislation using airsoft guns because of a lack of understanding of this sport. There are those that would try to convince the government that airsoft guns kill people. I would submit that they dont, but they can get people killed. In a situation where someone has an airsoft gun that looks particularly dangerous, Law Enforcement may respond as though that is a weapon carrying a life around. What im struggling with is we have those that are supporters of the airsoft sport, but dont want to be in positions where they can get people killed. Do you see a way that Law Enforcement are not put in the situation of having to make a splitsecond decision when they see something that looks like an assault rifle, which is actually an airsoft gun. I look forward to the committeess work on the issue of how do we tackle what has been identified as a challenge by Law Enforcement around the industrys ability to make airsoft guns look increasingly exactly like a program. There are those at this Table Including the now Deputy Commissioner barking who could probably give additional testimony to that effect. But the object is really to be sure, not that people can participate safely in an industry, but rather that one Law Enforcement response to a gun call, that were sure there is no loss of life as a result of a gun which may look exactly like a real gun. This is something that has occurred where we have seen loss of life including in my hometown of scarborough, where Police Showed up and a replica gun was mistaken for a real one and said late someone lost their life. That is the intent, and i know the committee will be studying them closely. You have six minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair. Welcome, minister. Thank you for coming here. I have several questions. You know there is a huge problem in canadian major cities, montreal, quebec city, and others. We often talk about this issue. C21 deals with the trafficking of firearms and smuggling, but you are basing this on one measure, that is, you are going to increase the maximum fines, but im not sure that in concrete terms at the border this will make a difference. We know there are many illegal firearms that come through our border, dont you think we need to take a more concrete measure in c21 to deal with the specific problem . I like to thank you for the leadership you have shown on this issue. We both share the same concerns about these issues. There is too much loss of life. Its enough, i totally agree with you on that. As for your question about what were doing at the border, i think there are a few different aspects to our strategy. First of all, resources, we have to continue hiring people because they work on the first line, and the proof of this is that last year we received a Record Number of firearms. Thats progress but we have to go even further. The second effect is that we have to work in close cooperation, not only with quebec, but with the united states. I have discussed this issue with the secretary of the americas to enhance the level of cooperation, information sharing and intelligence. Thats important, so i do understand that we are intercepting more and more firearms, look what happened in 2021. I believe there were 2008 firearms that were transported, he received a fiveyear prison sentence, and now he has been released. So, do you think this specific measurable prevent the smuggler from going ahead and doing this, because were not going to use hardened criminals to smuggle, we are going to take someone who doesnt have a criminal record. Maybe someone who has only committed a few minor crimes, and we choose these people, do you think this measure is really going to discourage someone from smuggling illegal firearms across the border. There are some Good Measures in this bill, you are giving more authority to the department of immigration. But what about assault weapons . You have taken some measures there. In may 2020, you dealt with assault weapons. But then other types of weapons have come on to the market that worked on this list. Why not use c21 to really deal with this particular issue . You packed a lot in your question, but with respect to the assault weapons, thats why we are dedicated to implementing a Buyback Program to get this type of firearm away from our communities. Secondly, i agree, in the context with respect to the tools available under c21, even the stricter sentences, in isolation, that in itself wont do anything. We have to implement a full range of tools, at the same time, to send a very clear strong message to all organized criminals, and c21 will do this. We have more severe sentences, surveillance tools, other authorities will get involved. Not only in my department but other Police Departments as well. Put a halted to these people who want to terrorize our community. You want us to adopt this bill very quickly. In 2019, before i was elected, you adopted through order and decree some measures such as the one in may 2021, in this bill, are there any elements that will be implement it through regulation . The requirement for licenses for importing ammunition, do you think you are going to go ahead more quickly with, pardon me, minister, you have to answer in a few seconds. The answer is yes and i can give you examples after the meeting. Thank you, six minutes, please. Thank you, mr. Chair, welcome back, minister, good to see you here. I want to continue on the subject of airsoft. I had a great summer consulting with constituents, and got to visit the victoria fish and game protection association. I got to be a referee during a match. The people involved in the sport love what they do. It is a growing sport with all sorts of demographics. They are concerned with how c21 is written, and i know your department has received a lot of correspondence. When you introduced this version of c21, your backgrounder stated current owners will be allowed to keep the ones they already own. They cannot transfer to another person. Manufacturers will be able to sell but they have to adjust the design. And your government will consult with industry and Law Enforcement how to implement the law. The backgrounder stating current owners will be allowed to keep the ones they already own, but how is that possible with the current wording, because according to the library of parliaments read of the bill, it will effectively make them prohibited devices. There is a bit of a disconnect. As a followup, what kind of consultations have you had with the industry . First, thank you for your advocacy on the issue. I appreciate, you have been speaking with the industry and responsible airsoft, owners, so we do appreciate the feedback. We are consulting ourselves with a number of different Industry Leaders and lobbyists. I just want to stress for the record that we look forward to working collaboratively with them. In the spirit of making sure that the legislative intent is aligned with language, if there is ambiguity there, lets try to clear that up. Thats one of the important functions of this committee is to be sure this government gets the benefit of input on how we can have a bill that reflects what were trying to accomplish. I appreciate that, i know my constituents are listening. The fact that you said you are open to collaboration is good and i will commit to working with you to find a way forward satisfactory to everyone. I have to give the victoria fish and Game Association a plug, they invited me to witness a competition for international shooting. They were concerned that the bill makes reference, clause 43 creates a new section, the only committee that is mentioned is the International Olympic committee, which is a very small subset of people. Elite shooters. What has been the correspondence from members of ipsic, and is your Department Open to broadening the language . These are people, constituents, who are passionate about what they are doing. I witnessed the competition, its safe, the rules are pretty well enforced. I think you know where we are coming from in the introduction of a National Handgun furries and its rationale. We have proposed reasonable exemptions, including those who participate in sports shooting and represent canada at an elite level. I am sure that there are different standards in mind about what the threshold should be. This is part of ongoing consultations we are embarked upon. My response would be, through you, if your constituency has concerns and would like to propose other areas how we can refine the standard, i think it is incumbent on us to be openminded, while at the same time record rising that recognizing that what were trying to do is reverse handgun violence, which i said has become the number one type of gun used in homicides. Understood. I think i have room for one final question. You received a letter may 16 of this year, it was from a number of womens groups who were concerned with the red flag provisions in this legislation. They are concerned about responsibility, when the onus may be on an individual experiencing Domestic Violence who has to face the court system by themselves. There has been worked to protect anonymity, but you must be familiar with this may 16 letter , do you have anything to say in response to the concerns they raised . We will continue to work with them at all of the partners who come forward to offer constructive ways to tackle genderbased violence in connection with guns which is a phenomenon that has become more and more serious. Particularly the last number of years. What we have said, one of the last times i appeared before this committee, is that we would be receptive to finding ways to ensure those protocols were present. But not as an exclusive alternative to using or leveraging existing authorities, but to be used in conjunction. We did two things that were responsive to the concerns in that letter and elsewhere, one, we built in protections for complainants who wish to come forward to reduce the potential for retaliation. Red flags for those who want red flag laws introduced. In my letter, we set out as a priority the need to be sure that local Law Enforcement has diverted resources necessary to respond to gun calls where there is concern about intimate partner violence. Thank you, ms. Mcgregor. We will start round two now. Minister, your bill could reach into the millions of dollars. Have you commissioned any study that demonstrates this buyback plan is an effective use of taxpayer dollars to enhance Public Safety . Of course, were studying the cost currently. You dont have proof right now . Mr. Lloyd, let me unpack the answer if i can. You said you dont have a study. I have an papers sent out by your department october 2018, that states in all cases, the data does not quizzically demonstrate that handgun or assault weapons bands have led to any reduction in gun violence, your own ministry recognizes there is not data to support a buyback. I wonder if i could be permitted to actually complete an answer . Id like to be able to finish, is that ok . We took the decision to ban assault style rifles because they were designed to kill. We looked at very careful standards around the definition contained in the order in council. We are now setting about the launch of a Buyback Program so we can get these guns out of our community, because we await to pick owe it to victim to ensure there is not another mass casualty. Minister, since you believe a gun buyback for law parting firearms owners will enhance safety, why are you not also launching a buyback for illegal firearms possessed by criminals . We put in place a National Handgun furries, and a ban importing additional handguns into the country. You also oppose our national ban on assault style rifles and proposed to make them legal again. You are dancing around the question. Minor to have a program to buyback illegal firearms from criminals on the street . We have taken a tangible step forward addressing tandem violence through the introduction of a National Handgun freeze. And we are going to get assault style rifles out of our communities. Wouldnt you agree it would be more beneficial to get buyback illegal firearms rather than buying back a firearm from a sports shooter . I have said before that i respect lawabiding gun owners. Then why would you target them . Why dont you buyback guns from criminals . You dont think a buyback from criminals would be effective . When it comes to assault style rifles, they have no place in our communitys. We have taken a large step forward by putting in place a National Handgun freeze, so we can reverse the deaths by handgun by about you want to reduce magazine counts to know more than four or five rounds, will this apply to all guns are only semiautomatics . What we have proposed will let apply to longjohns . Guns . No. The enfield hunting rifle has 10 rounds in a magazine. Is this on the list of things that will be regulated . Let me tell you why it is we have put these standards into the bill. We think by doing so we will reduce gun violence. These firearms are predominantly used by Indigenous People to fulfill their treaty hunting rights. If you are limiting the use of the hunting rifle, you are limiting indigenous rights. We are consulting with indigenous communities, and we are listening very carefully to Indigenous Leaders to make sure that for those who hunt as part of their tradition, or to eat, that this bill will be consistent with the principles of reconciliation. And those conversations are ongoing. Five minutes, please. Thank you, mr. Chair. And thank you ministers. Thank you to you and your team for your appearance. In your opening statement, you talked about the fact that c21 is part of a multidimensional plan that includes investments to ensure that youth have activities that will prevent them from joining street gangs. And historic investments totaling 321 million to strengthen our borders. This final point makes me proud and happy in my community, and as you know, our community is the Training Center for cbsa officers. Minister, could you talk to us about the importance of these investments to prevent illegal firearms from entering canada . Thank you for your question. First of all, id like to point out the good work done by the cbsa at our borders. They have made a lot of progress in fighting against firearm related violence. Last year, it seized a Record Number of illegal firearms, but despite this progress, we have to go even further. Thats why we will continue investing by adding resources of the border to give increased resources to the rcmp. And i would like to acknowledge that there are institutions, i had the opportunity last year to visit the school where you cbsa officers are being trained. It was very inspiring. We have to continue supporting their efforts in this fight against firearmrelated violence. Im sure it was really appreciated by all of the new formed ages that will be protecting our border. C21 will go a long way protecting communities all across the country, and im looking forward to diving in with Committee Members to strengthen the bill. One of the questions members of my community had was with regard to ghost guns. This was brought up by my colleague. We had an institute in montreal two months ago where a young man had purchased parts online and put together a firearm that was used in a Violent Crime in montreal. I have received numerous emails and calls from constituents wondering if theres any way we can combat this. You had mentioned earlier he spoke with colleagues in the united states, and im sure you have had discussions with counterparts around the world. Have you heard any effective ways to counter this, and can you share those with the committee so you can help guide our work in the coming weeks . First, thank you for the question. It is not lost on me that the last number of months have been extremely difficult for montreal. Going back to last spring, i had the chance to participate in a form to counter gun violence at the invitation of the mayor. In attending that particular forum, i was struck by the young people who spoke about friends they have lost. And sadly it since then, we have seen ongoing shootings pretty much consistently and unabated. I have stayed in close contact with both the mayor, as well as my counterpart, the minister, to turn the tide around. Which is why in the summer i went to announce funds directly for quebec, which i want to say 17 or 18 million was to go to montreal. These are designed specifically to stop gun crime before it occurs by looking at root causes, enhancing capacity to offer programs and services, so people who are at risk make the right choices. We think this is a critical pillar in our overall strategy to reduce gun violence. We think the funds we have allocated to quebec and andre all will go toward achieving that goal. Thank you, maam . Ms. Michaud, you have to and a half minutes. A question was raised about a question i too would like to raise with you. On may 16, several womens groups approached you to say they were worried about the red flag laws in this bill. They felt it was problematic, if not counterproductive, in that victims had to make the request to get this order. But i have seen that were trying to preserve the anonymity of the victim, but considering the family situations of the people, perhaps the police dont have all the tools at their disposal to protect. I believe that was tabled may 30. And you didnt have time to change anything at that time, but the position taken by the womens group has not changed. Rather than using the means already available, they felt that more authority should be given to the communities, such as education, would you be prepared to amend the bill given the fears expressed by these individuals . Thank you for your question. The new protocol proposed in c21, the red and yellow flag laws, the purpose of these measures is to reverse a trend with respect to firearms, and intimate partner violence, thats the goal. But i do understand there are concerns that have been expressed by various womens organizations and survivors groups. Thats why we amended the bill and in my opinion, i feel we strengthened the proposal. This is only one option, it is not mandatory. It is another protective measure for those who wish to use it, however, i do acknowledge that we have to give resources to the Police Departments, so that they can use the authorities they currently have. Do i have time for another question . Three seconds, no, i guess thats enough. We go now to mr. Mcgregor, two and a half minutes. Minister, our first report in this committee referenced gun and hang violence, and i thought it was one we all worked well together on. I have always approached the issue of gun violence as acknowledging that a single piece of legislation will not address the problem. Has to be taken with policy, working with partners, i think ill collate would agree on that. On the question of domestic diversion, i know that is a big rationale behind c21, we did hear testimony on the dangers of people owning large numbers of handguns, and setting themselves up as targets for criminal organizations. Far easier to steal a gun that is already in canada rather than trying to smuggle it across the international border. We did make a recommendation to ask for Additional Research on the prevalence of domestic diversion. Do you have further updates from your department on how widespread the problem is . Any resolution you are considering for people who may be targets of criminal organizations . Just that i think it is imperative we continue together the best available data on the ratio of illegal importation to thomistic trafficking. That is something the rcmp will be equipped to do with greater capacity as cbsa, because we have made investments to increase their ability to find the source of guns. By doing that, giving rcmp additional tools, we think we will have an even clearer picture than right now about how many guns are coming in illegally, as opposed to those that are trafficked illegally within the country. Thank you, i believe we have time for two more fiveminute questions. I may be splitting my time. Thank you for being here today, always nice to see you. Minister, you have mentioned a couple times the great work this committee does. Mr. Mcgregor referenced our report on reducing Gang Violence in canada, minister, have you read that report . Yes. So have i. [laughter] you have done your homework. I hope so. There was no recommendation for a nationwide handgun ban. Where is your data to support this ban . Can you tell me what your rationale is . I thank the committee for its work. I know there are a diversity of views on an issue that is as important as firearms. The reason we introduced a National Handgun freeze is because of the Alarming Trends around the increase of handgun violence. Specifically, handguns are now the number one type of gun used in homicides. I dont know whether you agree, but that is not arbitrary, there is a connection between the explosion of the handgun universe, which is increasing approximately 35,000 new registrations a year the last decade. Our National Handgun freeze is an effort to reverse that trend. We are trying to stop violence across canada and all our cities. We heard city after city, police chief after police chief, it was illegal guns not legal gun owners. If you dont have the data, i have had people tell me cynically, they thought this was more of a political situation. Is there data from polling you have done on this decision . There is nothing political about the approach we have taken in the spell. Inasmuch as we have put forward what we think are the best and most Practical Solutions to stop the Alarming Trends around the increase of gun violence. Weve looked at the data and the data says unequivocally, that gun crimes going up. Handgun crime is going up. My response to you is that the status quo is not working. And the most important thing i can say to you is that i respect the work you are doing. I know you bring different viewpoints. We both agree it is an issue, perhaps we are disagreeing as to where the situation lies. We need to uncover the root cause earlier. You were speaking at the beginning, you said a very interesting phrase, correct me if im wrong, you said this bill will stop gun violence once and for all. Do you really believe that . That is the goal. But i want to be clear that c21 by itself would accomplish that, we also have to invest in Law Enforcement, stop illegal trafficking, and put into place preventative strategies including the buildings they were communities Safer Communities fund. Then we can finally reverse the gun violence trend. I will give my remaining time to my colleague. What do i have, a minute . Thank you for being here, in your opening remarks you talked about the gun confiscation program, calling it a gun Buyback Program. Given our constitutional structure, federal and provisional jurisdiction, for this program to be successful you need to work with provinces and get cooperation. You have a plan b if alberta and saskatchewan are not coming on side . I want to reassure our professional partners, including alberta. We have a party that will help advance reconciliation. There are very important priorities we are collaborating on. I would come back to the question at the outset, which is an important one, in the view of this government, advancing a fair Buyback Program that will compensate gunowners for the assault style rifles they purchased lawfully, is consistent with keeping communities safe. We will always be collaborative with provincial and territorial partners. We have a wide variety of priorities to achieve that goal. The last question will be mr. Chiang, go ahead five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you for joining us today. As a former police officer, im aware of many challenges Law Enforcement faces in addressing firearms trafficking and smuggling. Minister, could you please tell this committee how bill c21 will support and provide additional tools to Law Enforcement . Thank you for the question, mr. Chiang, the two examples i think highlight our response to organized crime are in reference to the more severe criminal sentences, and maximum sentences for those who illegally traffic guns going from 10 years to 14 years. Your a former police officer, im a former i still read the criminal code, last i checked 14 years as the last stop before you get to a life sentence. That is a strong signal to traffickers that if you are in the business of getting guns into communities, you face the prospect of serving a significant time. Secondly, we propose to offer a surveillance and wiretap powers to police that become eligible for that investment of technique. As one i believe will help disrupt illegal supply chains around firearms, both internationally, and within our borders. Those are two concrete examples which i think c 21 when it becomes law will tackle organized crime and illegal trafficking of guns. Thank you, minister. In regards to authorizing wiretapping for firearms offenses, can you discuss how these will help support enforcement agencies and make our communities safer . I think the simplest way to explain is that products under the criminal code designates certain offenses for which bullies can apply for a wiretap. This bill proposes to extend that was to include additional firearms offenses, which will give them greater capacity to disrupt the efforts of organized crime when it comes to trafficking, or illegally possessing guns. Its not a tool of first resort, there are a number of steps demonstrate before a judge before a wiretap is authorized as an investigative necessity, but this is another concrete way to tackle organized crime. We hear about the challenges of guns being trafficked in our communitys, this is a very conrete additional measure to reverse and bring those responsible to justice. Thank you for the answer. Can you discuss some of the challenges canada faces related to increased handguns in the country youre over here . Year over year, and why is it important to set a cap on the number of handguns in this country to protect canadians . Mr. Chiang, as somebody in a city bessette with beset with handgun violence, and works with too many who have seen lives lost, i was just with an officer who lost their life in the truck police service. The challenges are significant and complex. Im in no way trying to gloss over or simplify the complexity of that problem. But in c21, the government has made a best effort to put forward a conference of legislative strategy that aims to reverse the trend around handgun violence, and organized crime. And around Domestic Violence and the presence of guns. It is part of a much broader strategy that looks to give Additional Resources to Law Enforcement to stop additional trafficking at the border and prevent crime in the first place. If we do this and remain focused, i believe we can reverse the trends around the increase of gun violence and eradicate it once and for all. Thank you, and thank you minister and deputy minister. I understand you both have to leave at this point. That concludes this portion of the meeting. We will suspend for five minutes, and ask the remaining officials to remain. Thank you