tonight, do we really live in a post-racial society? you tell me after you seeing this shocking back face routine on a tv show. then, congressman charlie rangel writes our tax codes, but apparently has forgotten how to pay his own. sorry, charlie, but maybe it's time for you to go. and joining me in the studio, the man who never curbs his enthusiasm for laughter, comedy maven, larry david. all this and much more, tonight. well, folks, racism is alive and well. don't believe me? watch this ridiculous black face skit, the jackson jives. ♪ ♪ look around, the whole world's coming together now ♪ everybody, sing with me. >> that was not the friar's club or even the u.s., it was australia, where apparently they still think this stuff is funny. joining me to see if americans still think it's funny are arianna huffington, editor and cofounder of the huffington post, chuck nice, and joe watkins, the best-looking republican i've seen in years, pastor and former white house aide for george bush senior. okay, chuck, this is australia. >> yes. >> can we chalk it up to cultural differences or is it race? what do you think? >> i'm going to say that it's both. what's funny there is the fact that they actually think that's entertaining in any way, shape, or form. >> well, it's down under. >> it was just a horrible, horrible, horrible performance. seriously, how corny, the jackson jive. on one hand, it's a cultural difference, but on the other hand, you know better. so it's a combination -- >> well, the guy, the front man for the sketch did say that he would not do that sketch in the united states, which leads me to think that he knows it's racist. >> exactly. >> what do you think? >> of course. and the world is so small now. what you do in australia is going to be seen, obviously, in the united states or america. so you ought to be sensitive to the fact and the fact that maybe you're hurting folk's feelings and maybe what you think is so funny was no so funny. >> harry conic jr. would not arrive on the same stage as these people. he thought it was inappropriate and racist. i don't think, arianna, they would do a sketch like that about the an ridgenys, would they? >> no, you're right. i think cultural issues is definitely an issue, and lack of sensitivity, but there are still underlying racist vestiges, both in this country and clearly in australia. >> clearly. >> clearly. >> but a lot of the anger that we're seeing right now in our country i think goes beyond those vestige, because i think those are just marginal. i think there's a lot of anger about everything that's happening, the lack of fair play, what's happening to people's lives with lack of jobs and foreclosures and all that. and you know, when you -- when times are hard, that's when you see a lot of prejudices coming out into the forefront. >> that was the precursor to the holocaust, really, in germany. >> absolutely. >> the economic slump was really bad and they blamed it on the jews. and that's what happened there. so you have to be very careful of bad economic times. >> but remember that barack obama told david letterman that he was black before he was elected. and that's a significant point in that, after all, enough people, a majority of americans have no racism in them, otherwise, they would not have elected a black president. >> do you believe that? >> yeah. because he said, i was black before i was elected, and there were a lot of people who went, well, if i had known that, i wouldn't have voted for you. what the heck! you tricked me. you tricked me, man. >> but this idea that we're in a post-racial america strikes me as a little bit lame, frankly. >> i think you're 100% right. there is no such thing as a post-racial america. >> but we're getting there. we're making progress. we aren't where we were in 1965 or 1935. we've made a lot of progress and it's getting better. we're getting to the point where, hopefully, some day, we'll be a color blind society, where people won't see color first, they'll see the person. we haven't gotten there yet. we haven't gotten there yet. >> i don't think we're ever going to get there, and i don't want us to get there, because i don't want us to live in a color blind society. >> you don't? >> no, the truth is, we see them. you put a bunch of kids on a playground and they don't allow their differences to stop them from playing with one another, but they certainly do recognize the differences that they have. and i think that that is the -- >> but that's different. >> that is different. >> that's different from being racist. >> i'm not saying racist, i'm saying -- >> well, when we talking post-racial, i'm talking post-racist, is what i'm talking about. >> is that we don't evaluate or judge people based on their color. >> i hope we do get there. >> that's what i mean, color blind. you look past the person's color. somebody's up for a job, somebody's running for office, you look past their color. >> but you say we've come a long way, of course, we have since 1935. how do you account for the account for the fact that black men in jail, in prison has grown five fold in the last 20 years? >> in the words of a very good friend of mine from alabama, it's because black men are criminals. okay, that's a joke, people. >> i was like, what? >> what is he doing? >> but, you know, what is not a joke is that you have a disastrous war on drugs in this country. and i think the main reason we have so many african-american men in jail is because of the fact that the war on drugs is completely unequal. if you're black and in inner cities, smacking crack cocaine, there are different in the sentencing laws and it's one of the major injustices in this country that we put in jail nonviolent drug offenders instead of taking them into treatment. we actually put them in jail and destroy their lives. >> and when you build jails, when you build jails, privatized institutions that exist for profit, then you have to fill them with someone. it really is that simple. >> well, that was in michael moore's movie about the -- >> the private jails. >> the private jails, yeah. that was good. >> but it's a challenge. i pastor a church in the inner city, where young men are going to jail still, in big numbers. i mean, i've got a judge number of black men who are members of my church who have been in prison or who are going to prison. and it really has to do with the disparity and opportunity, but also, what i do like is what president obama has said about the importance of personal responsibility, and he's saying, bill cosby is saying it, a number of people are saying it. it has to do with values being taught in the home by parents, without regard to what somebody's economic status is. >> that's true. but the emphasis should also be on the fact that a lot of people in this society have gotten a raw deal. and it's not just about pulling yourself up by your boot strasb. >> no doubt. >> you've got to have boots first. >> i think that's where the republicans and democrats disagree, you've got to have boots first. and the democrats like to give you the boots, and the republican say, no, go get your own boots. >> and then pull yourself up by them. >> and i don't have arms, go buy yourself some arms. >> not quite that bad. i'm a republican, and what i do like is the fact that we realize folks need help, and it's about leveling the playing field. >> but you're talking about making that reality and not just rhetoric. we've been talking about it for years and we still don't have it. >> and one way you can make that a reality is education. education is the most important thing when it comes to giving people an opportunity. quite frankly, in the inner cities and in low economic areas, being a doctor is not hope, not even being a rapper is hope. being a drug dealer, actually, is very realistic. >> that's unfortunate. >> that is unfortunate. >> but at least we have a president that reads this time, so education a possibility. gentleman, thank. arianna, stick around. representative rangel acknowledged his failure to pay -- failure to publicly disclose at least $500,000 in cash assets, tens of thousands of dollars in investment income, and his ownership of two pieces of property in new jersey. >> congressman charlie rangel is in trouble for allegedly not paying enough taxes, which is ironic because he's in charge of writing tax policy. hello! rangel, you're my representative, i live in the upper west side and i'm really worried about you. joining me now, kathleen parker, syndicated columnist, and still with me, arianna huffington, cofounder and managing editor of the huffington post. kathleen, let's start with you. is it time for rangel to get out? >> i think so. i mean, i think he sort of has to. you think? >> yeah. i can't remember what the word was you used, but hypocrisy is another one that springs to mind. you know if a republican were in that position, people would be calling for his head. that said, let's go back in time, when tom delay broke some rule, the gop's caucus' own rules, they just changed them so he would haven't to step down. >> you mean twinkle toes? >> yes, this was before "dancing with the stars". >> corruption and government is kind of oxymoron? >> hand in glove. >> it's redundant. >> i think what's the major problem right now is that the trust in government is going down dramatically. and when you have timothy geithner not paying his taxes and becoming treasury secretary -- >> oh, yeah. >> when you have, as you say, charlie rangel in charge of writing tax policy, not paying his tax, and coming up with some flimsy excuses, that if you and i or any ordinary american, we would never have gotten away with. that's not the kind of america we want to live in. i don't care whether he's a democrat, a republican, an independent, this is really needed in this country, a level playing field. >> rangle wants to stay. he's not going. i'm telling you, i'm not going. listen to this. >> the way it works in the house is that when allegations are made and referred to the ethics committee, what is normally done is members wait until the ethics committee completes its investigation and its report. that's what i'm hoping happens with the republicans. >> do you think that he's really doing a disservice to the democrats in that the republicans are going to really come out looking good and gaining seats in the house in the next election? because of him. >> i think he is doing a disservice. because, you see, right now the public is, at this moment, when they are suffering so much, you know, the economic crisis has taken such a toll on millions of americans, that when they actually see that demonstration of double standard, it hurts more than in good economic times. because they're paying the price for a lot of what wall street did. and they see wall street doing incredibly well and they are in trouble. >> it's very annoying. >> very annoying. >> and this guy, rangel, who i always liked, he had three rent-controlled apartment. now, you're only allowed to have one in this city, and he had three, and he says he didn't know or something. that's not flying. >> his file of alleged offenses is quite thick. it's not just, oh, gosh, i forgot i got that paycheck, you know. he's got lots and lots of things. and it is going to hurt the democrats in 2010. and the honorable thing to do would be for him, i think, to step down and go ahead and -- >> because, also, i think that it's also distracting from the larger issues that we have to deal, like health care, right? >> well, i don't think it's going to have any impact on health care. i think health care has plenty of its own problems without charlie rangel, but i just think that this is a moment for democratic leaders to actually draw a line in the sand. and say that we are basically going to be in favor of -- >> pelosi needs to. >> yeah, pelosi needs to -- exactly, to draw the line in the sand. that's where leadership comes. that's where you say, this is not acceptable in our own caucus, this is not good for the party, this is not good for the country, period. >> okay. big news on the huffington post yesterday, picked up this bob dole quote. sometimes, he said, people fight you just to fight you. this is from bob dole. health care is one of those things, now we've got to do something. who is he targeting? palin or boehner? >> not enough -- >> who's boner. >> boehner. >> boehner? no, boner. >> i'm not giving pronunciation lessons, okay. that's one thing you should stay out of. >> that's one thing i'm staying away from in this controversy. i think he was targeting mitch mcconnell, because he effectively said -- and i love that. i love it when there's countercasting, when republicans act in the public interest, no matter what, the interest of the -- >> and he's not the only one, arianna. also, schwarzenegger is now saying, we should get in the game. kathleen, what do you think of that? tommy thompson, mark mcclellan, eric cantor. i never thought i would see that. he said he's going to sit down with steny hoyer to narrow their differences. is the apocalypse upon us? >> well, you know, president obama has reached out to some of these people. and once that engagement takes place, it sort of shifts the tone a little bit. and i think republicans don't want to be viewed at the end of having obstructed any kind of reform. there was never a sense that no reform was needed. it was just a matter of how you go about it and how you keep the cost down. and bob dole and tom daschle's bill, you know, their health care approach was substantially different than what the baucus bill is. those people who are still objecting have, i think, there's some legitimate problems with the cost and, you know, when obama says, oh, no, this is not a government-controlled health care plan, it's not quite accurate, because all decisions in the future on premium and who pays and coverage and all that will be political legislative decisions. >> let me take you to another point. barack obama's approval rating just went up 6%. isn't that interesting? i mean, are the american people seeing something? are they seeing, maybe, that the republicans are the party of no, they've had it with them and all of the obstructionism. >> i think he is benefitinging from the comparisons. >> yes, let me say something about polls. "the huffington post" have a feature we are calling poll strategy. where we present polls in the same area where we present astrological charts. because i think there's way too much emphasis being given to polls. they go up and down and depends on the response rate and the order in which you ask the questions. i think there should be less attention paid to -- >> i don't think that's ever going to happen. >> you and i can naturally determine that, to a large extent. we are part of the media. we can decide what we cover. >> but it's constantly on the news channels, the polls, polls, polls, and more polls. >> and people respond to what's in the polls. they want to say what everybody else is saying. if everybody else is saying, obama's good, you don't want to say, no, no, no. so once afghanistan escalates and we start seeing more body bags, his ratings are going to go way down. so it's all according to the day. >> what do you think about that? this is his war? this is obama's war in afghanistan? >> well, i think it could be the most disastrous decision of his administration, if he decides to escalate. >> really? they're asking for 40,000 more troops. mcchrystal, isn't it? >> but look at a lot of the other people around him, including joe biden, who are effectively saying, we don't have a clear mission. we donate have a clear plan for victory. we don't have an exit strategy. so why are we there? it's not in our own national security interests. >> but we have to be there, to some extent, don't we? we have to protect the women, at the very least, against the taliban in afghanistan. >> but look at who is in charge? the parties in charge is so corrupt, what's happening to him under the current party in charge is also horrific. >> so what would happen if we pulled out? what happens to those women? >> well, first of all, look at how many civilian casualties we are responsible for. >> that's not good. >> we are not want there had. al qaeda is in pakistan. >> that's what the strategy is, though, the strategy is, to the extent that we have one, is to shift away from killing -- well, that's obviously something we don't want to do, but to protecting the people. >> why can't they find bolin britain? can't they google earth him? i mean, they can find the back hairs on my head with that thing, and they can't find osama bin laden schlepping around the mountains up there? come on. >> here we are, eight years later, i mean, if we had stayed in afghanistan instead of being distracted with iraq, we would have gotten bin laden, vewe wou have actually made a difference. >> you think we would have found him? >> of course. >> kathleen says no. >> i don't think so. i think if we could find him, we would find it. i don't think we can. >> it's apples and oranges in a way. iraq was a horror and osoama isa horror, but one excludes the other. >> if the taliban takes over, they make a hospitable environment for al qaeda, so it's a horrible, horrible situation, and i feel sorry for obama, i'm glad he's taking his time. >> this has been very interesting. will you stick around for a wile? >> of course. >> we'll be right back in just a bit with these ladies. where >> hey. >> what? >> no, thank you, larry, for saving my life? >> saving my life? how'd you save my life? you didn't save my life. >> you diagnosed my illness. >> well, it's treated and i feel great. >> give it up. >> give what up? >> what kind of person doesn't a say thank you for saving your life. back with me to discuss everything from sexual harassment to girly men are arianna huffington and kathleen parker. so this week and last week, we were very much entertained by a certain show, shall we say, on television. letterman. what was your take on all that? because i had the women from n.o.w. on last night and gloria allred and they really are against him and they feel it was sexual harassment. did you? >> well, we have no evidence that it is sexual harassment, you know. if it is sexual harassment, it's one story. if it isn't, it remains in the private realm. and i feel really strongly that whether you're a comedian or a politician, if it is a private matter, it's between you and your wife. if the law is involved, whether because it's sexual harassment or prostitution or anything else, that's another story. but we have no evidence, yet. i mean, we may have, that it was sexual harassment. >> with do you think about that? >> well, first of all, i have a very high tolerance for sexual harassment. >> you write about politics, no wonder. >> i used to have a sign over my door, sexual harassment welcome here. no one has knocked lately, that's all i can say. but if it's two consenting adults in an environment where it has no affect on the environment, then that's one thing. and i haven't heard these women complaining, right? but, there is -- you know, the problem is, if you have the boss, who's having relationships with one of the staff and everybody kind of knows it and there's this sort of sexual thing going on, it's just -- >> icky. >> it's just distracting to the rest of the staff. >> very distracting. and you feel like you're not going to get the promotion. >> exactly. >> well, remember, his dating pool was kind of restricted. >> he's kind of nerdy. he doesn't leave the build. >> he doesn't leave the building. and most of his writers are men. so, basically, it was down to the assistants -- >> and let's not make the girls feel bad. they may have been very attractive, young women. >> i'm not saying that at all. i'm just saying this was the dating pool. >> this was convenient. >> that he was actually going out -- on match.com. >> not going to hooters, for example. so see what's available. i was sexually harassed when i was a schoolteacher years ago. >> how was it? >> how was it? >> i'll tell you the story, i was at the blackboard, teaching an english lesson on verb and subject agreement. the chairman of the department is sitting in the back of the room, and after my lesson was over, he was supposed to critique me. and he comes up to me and he goes, you were so good, i could have done you -- used another word -- on the blackboard. and i was like, what about my lesson, i was doing verb and subject, he couldn't care less about my lesson. and it was a tough lesson, verb and subject, very difficult. i was good up there. >> at least he didn't end in a preposition. >> exactly. now, you have a book, arianna, about stress. tell me about your book. >> you know, actually, it's a book that i chose for our book club. "the huffington post" launched a book section. and for my first pick of the book club, i picked the book, "in praise of slowness," which is a book in favor of not multitasking all the time, not being sleep depraved all the time, enjoying life, and as a result, being more effective and more creative. >> and you wrote this book while running "the huffington post". >> she didn't write it. >> just picked it. >> i picked it because i need it. >> well, i have to tell you, i love "the huffington post." i really do. do you read it, kathleen? >> of course. >> and you write for it also qup. >> no, she writes for "the washington post". >> you should make the switch. d okay, i love this guy. he's a captain of the tv industry, he produced and co-created a little megahit called "seinfeld" and then created a stirring vehicle for himself. let's take a look. >> you know, if there's anything i can do, you'll let me know. >> you know what, there is something you can do. >> what? >> yeah. you can come over today at 1:00 and visit with her. >> visit her? >> yeah. >> what are you, kidding? >> what, you didn't mean it? >> of course not. >> joining me now from hbo's ku "curb your enthusiasm," my pal, larry david. welcome to the show, larry. >> thank you. >> does it feel like old times being here with me? >> in the sense that we worked together? >> yes. >> yes. >> yes. >> but i don't think we've ever sat -- i've never sat across from a desk from you. >> no, but you've sat across a table, because in 1987 when i was doing some show called "way off broadway" for lifetime, do you remember that? >> of course, yes. >> you were writing for me on the show. you used to come over to my apartment with really a stack of notes and concepts. your mind was always filled with ideas. and then we would work out the stuff and we would then order in and the show would pay for it and you would get so excited, they're going to pick up the check! they're going to pay for this! >> yes, anything for free. and you know, you'd take anything. i notice now, like, i have some stuff, you know, that i give away, people in the office, and nobody -- you could mention like a record from 1972, yeah, i'll take it. >> i know. >> anything that's for free, people will just take. >> and no matter how much money, no matter how much they have, they still want it. >> they want it, yes. it's the best way to get rid of your garbage, really. >> the laughter that you hear is the staff, they hang around here. we have hank gallo and frank -- >> hank gallo is here? >> yeah, he's here. that's his laughing. there's like gallo and santa d padro, we call them the explorers. >> you know i love explorer. >> i know you do. who's your favorite explorer? >> magellan was good. >> i always liked magellan. >> come on, he circumnavigated. >> that's pretty big. >> the others, they just went to africa, they just went to south america. this guy said, i'm going all the way. all the way, baby! >> all right. >> we used to do an old thing on pons de leone, he went looking for the fountain of youth. >> i remember. >> he went to queen isabella and said, i want to go look for the fountain of youth, can a get a couple of ships? >> and she said sure. >> she said, yeah, put this guy in charge of an expedition, he wants to look for the fountain of youth. go, go look for it. >> so queen isabella, not that bright. >> i guess not. >> i want to show a little clip of you doing stand-up -- >> no, come on, seriously. really? you didn't run this by me. >> come on, let's just show it. >> by the way, it's freezing in here, that's why i'm wearing this thing. >> i know it's freezing. i've been in menopause for 13 years. >> what is this clip? >> let's see it. >> let's not see it. >> come on. >> chuck scarborough, who's the -- he's like the anchorman guy, he's the kind of guy you would like to play tennis, because he's such a nice guy, you could cheat the pants off of him. it's no good, chuck, forget it, it's out. he's not going to argue with you this time. >> i didn't even hear what i said. >> it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter what you said. i can't believe they dug that up. >> what the hell is that? >> that's you, i guess. >> yeah. >> you look better now. i like you. you're so cute now. >> see, that -- young larry resents that. last night, somebody came up to me and said, my god, you know, you look so much better in person than you do on tv. >> i hate that. >> i was like, what is that? is that supposed to be a compliment? so i look like a dog on tv? >> and they fix you up for television, so you should look better. >> yeah. >> i remember you from the old days of "catch a rising star," and you were what you would call a temperamental comic. >> yes, temperamental. >> the comics always love to come into the room and they say, oh, larry's getting up, and everybody would look at their watches and see how long you'd last. >> they didn't know if i was going to have a breakdown on stage. >> yes. >> and you didn't really know what was happening. >> and what would happen to you if you got up there and you didn't get the first laugh? >> i didn't -- i don't like -- i don't react well to adversity. i'm a baby. really, almost the way that john mcenroe used to be when he played tennis, if a call went against him, what, god, you know, and that's how i was. something went against me, if a person -- i could be doing great, and if i saw one person kind of start talking during the whole thing, i would go, hey, hey, you. oh, what, you don't like this? it's no good. >> and then you'd walk out. >> i can't do this. i'm getting out of here. >> so that stops your act. >> one time, i actually -- and i said this, i've done this story before, but i got up on stage, it was "catch a rising star," i went up on stage and i looked at the audience and i went, nah, i don't think so. >> just the way they looked. >> just the way they looked. >> was enough. >> and i left. >> i know. but we always thought you were brilliant. you had some funny bits and used to talk about, you know, how, you know, we would talk about before. come on. >> oh, the compliment, i still would have been his friend. >> if he was here now and said, larry, you look handsome. >> oh, really, i'm glad you talk to managela, that's so sweet of you, thank you very much. really? i'm blown away. i really ham, yeah. >> but here's the larry david conundrum, you wanted the audience to love you. how do you break through that? >> they're your lover? >> they're your lover? >> if the lover rejects you, you yell at them. >> i always saw that person that wasn't laughing as my father, who never really laughed. >> oh,. >> so that person would strike me as my father and then i would be like, scared, i didn't want to go on anymore. so maybe there was a little mother issue. >> no, not mother. i saw the audience as a woman. >> oh, a woman. not your mother, though? not that woman? >> no, please. >> like a girlfriend. but if you went on stage now -- >> no, not my girlfriend. someone i'm trying -- i want to become my girlfriend. someone i'm flirting with who i'm going after. >> i see. but like, take you now, you're hugely successful now, everybody knows you and you have enormous fans. >> yes. >> and women, i'm sure, are flocking to you now. >> now i'll treat the audience like my ex-wife. >> so there's no winning. there's no winning with you. i'm sorry, what were you going to say? i interrupted you? >> no, that's fine. you were going good. now, the other thing is, you didn't have any money in those days. you didn't have cab fare. you were livingdungeon for actors. >> manhattan plaza. >> manhattan plaza. >> and now you have money. you're very successful, you made a lot of money on "seinfeld." i mean, really a lot of money, not just my kind of money, your money, big money. >> well, let's not forget i got divorced. >> and california, she took half, didn't she? >> yeah. >> that is outrageous. >> isn't that crazy? >> you're the one who's funny, you're the one who made all the money. why should she get half? and then you must have got hit with the economy a little bit too? >> yeah, so i really don't have anything there -- >> what you had. >> what i reputed to have -- >> but it's stilled good. >> i'm not complaining. >> michael moore, he was on -- >> now if somebody asks me for money, i have to go, i have to ask my kids, it's their money. >> michael moore was on the view, and some of the things he said. he really hates capitalists. did you see his movie? you're a capitalist, you have money. >> he also has tons of money, but he has compassion. >> why doesn't he give some of the money he gives away? >> you don't know how much money he gives away. he could be giving away a lot of money to charities. >> you think so? >> yeah, i do. >> don't repute michael moore to me. >> i didn't know you were so attached to michael moore. >> michael moore's a hero. >> he is. we love him. we'll be back, don't go away. just when you thought the sarah palin soap opera might be riding off into the tundra, up pops levi johnston. and i mean pops up. levi, bristol palin's baby daddy is going to unzip his levi's and show us his johnston in "playgirl" online magazine. i hope he's not built like a moose. sarah's liable to shoot him from a helicopter. i don't know if this will hurt sarah's career, but i'm sure it will help levi meet some fabulous men. allow me to enlighten. how do you feel about liza or madonna. most of "playgirl's" subscribers are women. six famous athletes, including tennis champion serena williams are posing au naturel for espn's issue. i say, big whoop. celebrities posing naked for magazine is nothing new. burt reynolds took it all off for cosmo. it's enough with the nude pictures of pretty people, okay. been there, done that. it's time for something new. just once i would like see a magazine celebrate brains instead of bodies. how fabulous would that be? imagine, nude centerfolds of alan greenspan or doris kearns goodwin or madeleine albright, without the pins, of course. that has got to hurt. but that's just me. we're back with the great larry david in the new season of "curb," you have arranged for a "seinfeld" reunion, am i right? >> yes. >> okay. let's take a look. >> why would we do something like this? i mean, i remember you talking about whenever a sitcom does a reunion episode, you're like, isn't this pathetic? >> i said pathetic? >> desperate, pathetic. >> desperate? >> when i would watch other shows, we would see them do reunion shows, you would look and you would make that face, that, you know, that very judgmental face of yours. >> who did you call first? did you call jerry first? >> jerry. >> and then who? >> people ask me that question and i'm not telling them. >> okay. why did you decide to do it now, the reunion? just like that? >> i had the idea a few years ago, but then hurricane katrina came along and i thought of the idea, about taking in the blacks, which became the arc for that season, so that seemed very topical at the time, to coincide with katrina. i needed to exploit their tragedy in any way that i could. >> as only you could. >> as only i could. so then, you know, i did the -- so i still have the idea and i thought, this season, maybe we could do this. but it was a very ambitious thing to undertake, really. >> to get them altogether. >> to get them all together and then to get all those schedules down and all the sets and all that and then write the shows, what were the shows going to be? it's one thing to just say, do you want to do a reunion, but what's it going to be about? >> but you're thinking all the time about those shows, aren't you? always thinking about the plots. >> and everybody likes to work on "curb," because they don't have a script, they just improvise and make it up as they go. but you haven't exactly asked me to be on over the years. >> i haven't exactly or i haven't asked? >> you haven't asked. >> we have susiesy on. >> one of my spies told me michael richards is one of the things, something about him. i don't know what it is, because the information is not out. could it be that hysterical craziness that he went through saying the "n" word in that club. is the episode going to be about that? >> first of all, he's not just on one episode. >> one of the episodes. >> we will touch upon it, yes. we will touch upon it, yes. >> okay. and now, the other thing is, another thing that interested me is, nbc, i read that nbc thought that the first draft of "seinfeld" was too jewish, is that true? >> that was one of the notes. >> who was saying that? jewish people were saying that, right? >> that's usually the way it is. but in this case, i think it was -- well, he's no longer with us, but it might have been brandon who said that. i'm not sure. >> okay, would you consider those self-hating jews, those people who say it's too jewish? >> no, those are probably people that are concerned about their jobs and maybe they think that the show has to be completely generic -- >> meaning gentile? more gentile than jewish? like that middle america would relate to. >> right. >> rather than new york and l.a.. >> exactly. >> but that's not true. look at the tremendous hit it was. >> yes, it wasn't too jewish. >> it was very jewish. but it was hilarious. >> wait a second, you're saying it was very jewish, maybe the character s behaved in what you perceived to be a jewish way. >> yeah. >> but that doesn't mean that it didn't appeal to everyone. >> exactly. the particular to the universal. just like mel brooks appeals to everyone, also. and woody alan. but it's interesting that they would reject it out of hand just because it was too new york, too jewish. >> they might as well just say, if you're jewish, don't bother sending in a script, because we don't want to read it and we don't want you on the shows either. so go to israel, if you want to have a right. >> go to a sitcom in tel aviv. it's no good here. >> it's kind of creepy. >> yeah. >> is there anything else you want to tell me about "curb," any little secrets, any little thing that's going to happen? >> no. >> you're single now on the show. so we're seeing parallels in the script. are you going to meet another woman? >> i have a couple of dates. >> in reality or on the show? >> well, hopefully i will have a couple of dates in reality. i've got my fingered crossed. you know, i've been divorced two years, maybe one day, i will have a date. but on the show, i have -- there are two episodes, two dating episodes. >> two datining episodes. >> so are you dating anyone in real life? >> no. >> you're loose? >> yes. >> i'm putting that out right now for all you women. >> i'm loose and promiscuous. >> my kind of guy. well, you came to the right place. >> so i run the gamut. >> new york is filled with women who are loose and promiscuous. it's right for you. >> i've heard that for years. >> do you think they're more slutty in l.a. or new york? >> i missed it too, the whole sexual revelation. >> it just passed me by. you know why, because i couldn't kind of hang and listen to music. you know, i just wasn't that guy, you know. >> and i was home with a kid nursing children and taking care of dependent husbands. >> i was like, what do you like to do? do you like baseball? >> you used to be shy with women. >> i still am. >> you're still shy with women? >> you don't lose that quality, no matter what happens to you. if you're shy, you're shy. and i'm still shy. >> do you think all comedians are like that in a way? >> i wouldn't say all comedians are shy, no. there's a lot of comedians that will get right up on stage and hey, you want to go on now? i go hello, everybody. >> i can't get over that. how do you get that, where did that come from? >> i don't know. >> when i come back, i want to talk about your past. stick around. it is totally and completely unacceptable that you would grill my daughter, gracie, about that, and then you call me a liar? >> who's that? >> that's julia lewis dreyfuss. >> we're back with larry david for our final segment. i'm dreading already that you have to leave. i love this quote, the more people i offend, the better. >> i said that? >> yeah. you had one show where you had to tell a girl that had cancer that you're breaking up with her, vivica fox. >> i didn't tell her because the doctor beat me to it. >> you and newt gingrich had this in common. he told his wife he was breaking up with her when she had cancer. did you get the idea from him? >> yeah. >> so he was helpful to you. they always say that comics and funny people have a miserable childhood. did you? >> no, i don't think i had a miserable childhood, no. yeah, i used to do a line in my act. i had a wonderful childhood, which is tough because it's hard to adjust to a miserable adulthood. >> i can relate to that. >> i didn't have a bad childhood at all. >> they loved you. you had a bunch of aunts and uncles around you. >> they loved me -- you know, parents -- i don't know, back in the '50s, whatever, they didn't love like the way parents do today. parents today, you tell your kid a hundred times, i love you. they're so sick of it. yeah, you love me, shut the hell up already. and there's more hugging and all that today. you see it amongst everyone. >> but don't you think it makes kids insecure to keep telling them you love them? >> who the hell knows? in my days, we never heard that, there was no hugging. there was only watching. how is he doing? where is he? he's talking to a girl. what's going on there? just watching. >> did they worry you might be gay >> oh, no. >> no one was gay in the '50s. >> yeah, no one was gay or allergic to peanuts. >> that's true. that basically tells the '50s. that's it about the '50s. >> and women had no problems getting pregnant. >> no, that's true. and nowadays -- that's because they were under 30. now they're in their 60s getting pregnant. well, will you come back and sit with me again when you're in new york? >> i will. >> this show is going to be on, we don't know. it's a hit so far. >> good. >> thanks, larry. i so appreciate you coming. it was great to see you. >> good to see you. >> don't forget to watch "curb your enthusiasm" on sunday nights. good night and good luck. i shouldn't say that. but i'll say it any way. breaking news tonight. live, pennsylvania, state troopers on high alert after an 18-month-old baby boy kidnapped at knifepoint. the baby, tonight, in extreme danger. the mommy, attacked in her own home. the suspect is an escaped felon, armed and dangerous. tonight, the search by land, by air, for the baby boy, his abductor, and a black mercury mariner suv. where is 18-month-old baby adryn? >> amber alert. law enforcement needs your help tracking down a beautiful 18-month-old baby boy. law enforcement says the man he's with is considered armed an dangerous. that man, the baby's own father, johnny alexander drummin. police say he's fled with adryn after assaulting adryn's mom. authorities are afraid of what may happen to the baby. and breaking news, satsuma, florida. a 5-year-old little girl tucked into bed. five hours later, she's gone, vanished. the back door propped wide open. daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little haleigh. the last person to see the 5-year-old alive that night, new stepmother, misty croslin. bombshell tonight. in the last hour, croslin handcuffed and taken for questioning after alleged road rage. in a frantic 911 call, the reported victim tells dispatch a blue dodge caliber chasing her for miles. the driver, the occupant, wildy gesticulating obscene gestures, threatening her, and waving what appears to be a gun. we have the 911 call. and tonight, taking your calls. the alleged road rage victim with us live. now, think about it. if new stepmother misty croslin will behave this aggressively with another grown woman, a stranger, what would she do behind closed doors with a 5-year-old little girl? has little haleigh's disappearance, the nine-month search for the brown-eyed 5-year-old, and the finger pointing at babysitter-turned-stepmom misty croslin finally taken a toll? divorce. cummings and croslin agree to split. has ronald cummings' worst fears been confirmed? that new stepmother, croslin, implicated in the disappearance of his 5-year-old little girl. and tonight, a close-knit new hampshire community reeling after a beloved young nurse and her 11-year-old little girl brutally attacked with a machete and a knife in the early morning hours in their own home, asleep. suspect? oh, no, no random killers off the street, not dope dealers, not convicted felons, no. allegedly, a group of teens, including boy scouts and a mormon missionary student. at this hour, the little 11-year-old girl clinging to life. her mother dead. we want justice. steven spader and christopher dribble are charged with murder. william marks and gwen glover are charged with burglary, conspiracy to commit burglary, and armed robbery. prosecutors say all four of the suspects allegedly knew that the plan was to kill anyone who may be inside four trove road. >> they were aware going into the home that if there was someone in the house, that they would kill them. >> reporter: prosecutors say spader had a machete and gribble was armed with a knife. when they attacked kimberly kate and then her 11-year-old daughter when they were asleep inside the house. prosecutors say kimberly kate died of multiple stab wounds to her head, torso, arm and leg. her daughter was also seriously wounded and underwent hours of surgery. >> how humans can do something like that, it's a barbaric act. good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. live, pennsylvania, state troopers on high alert after an 18-month-old baby boy kidnapped at knifepoint. tonight, police make no bones about it. that baby is in extreme danger. the mother attacked in her own home. >> reporter: an 18-month-old baby boy is missing and police have issued an amber alert. adryn alan drummond was taken by his father after allegedly assaulting the baby's mom. authorities say is considered to be armed and dangerous. urging the public to be on the lookout for a black mercury mariner with pennsylvania license plates. police need your help to bring little adryn home. >> straight out to patrick dolwynn. patrick, what hatched? >> about 9:00 a.m., the suspect assaulted the woman and took the child and went out on the lamb in the suv. >> now, that's certainly breaking it down. stacy newman, our producer on the story, what happened? what led up to this? how did he get into the home? how did he attack the mother? did he use a knife? did he use a gun? why did he take the baby? what do we know? >> well, just coming into the nancy grace newsroom right now is that the suspect went to the home, had some kind of argument with the mother, he was armed with a knife, assaulted her, attacked the mom. then he snatched the baby and took off in the girlfriend's black suv. >> now, here's my question, stacy newman, do we know what, if anything, led up to the altercation? is this his biological baby? >> nancy, this is his biological baby. we do not know what led up to this argument, but what we do know is that this father is actually an escaped felony. he has been on the run since the end of august, nancy, escaping from a halfway house. >> he's gone on the run since august and now he shows up, snatches the baby at knifepoint and takes off. what more do we know about him? patrick donlin, with the "williams port-sun gazette," what do we know about him? what is his mental state? >> he was threatening to commit suicide on himself this morning and he was last seen about 50 miles north of williamsport in mansfield, in cuyahoga county, pennsylvania. he has a long rap sheet. he was sentenced in early 2008 for a drug delivery case. he had a theft case in the city of williamsport in october of 2005. and in the year 2002, he had three cases against him in williamsport. one for an assault in prison and two separate drug delivery cases. >> holy moly, to bethany marshall, dr. bethany marshall. we are taking your calls live. take a look at this little boy. his father has a history of mental illness. not only that, he is a many times over convicted felon, especially with drugs. we know that he has weapons with him. and possibly, the most disturbing is that he is threatening suicide and with him is his 18-month-old baby boy. rosy, if you could show me the little baby. bethany marshall, dr. bethany, what's the most disturbing right now is not only the attack on the mother at knifepoint, but his threats to commit suicide, because if he commits suicide, bethany, he's not going alone. >> oh, no. he's going to take the child down with him. and you know, the homicidal and the suicidal instincts lie side by side. the aggression gets turned against the self and against the other. and what is typical in these cases is you have a male that has a disturbed personality disorder, abusive, aggressive. the mother of the child tries to break up with him, tries to put a restraining order, tries to protect the baby. usually, the dad, and in this case it's probably true, has no interest in the child, but goes after the mother, takes the child to get back at the mother, and says to her, if i can't have you, you are not going to have your baby. so he directs all the aggression he has against the wife against the child. >> i'm just thinking, dr. bethany, how helpless my twins were at 18 months. i mean, they're almost 2 now. and to take them, have someone come to the door, attack me, and take them or one of them at knifepoint. bethany, you know -- >> yes. >> in this situation, they never go alone. if he kills himself, he's taking that little baby with him. out to the lines. jackie in canada, hi, jackie. >> caller: hi, how are you? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: my question is, how did the mother not know that he was coming around? did they not let her know in any way? >> to stacy newman, our producer on the story. i know she had a restraining order against him. not one, but possibly two. how did he get in the door? >> i mean, we don't have the details on that right now, but i would suppose he just simply overpowered her. i mean, if you're not -- if you know someone's not coming to your house, they simply show up, they can overpower you, jam their way into the door, bam, assault you and take off with their child. >> she tried to get out of the vehicle and take the keys. he took the keys from her to take the vehicle and before she could get her son out of the vehicle, adryn drummond, he fled in the vehicle. if these allegations are true, it should make the court wonder, if she will behave this way with a grown woman she doesn't even know, in public, how would she behave behind closed doors with a 5-year-old little girl? straight out to george spencer with wftv. george, what happened? >> nancy, the hard to explain just keeps happening in this case. it was early yesterday morning, actually late morning, about 11:00 a.m., seminole county deputies got a 911 call from that driver, those tapes that we were just listening to, and that driver is in panic mode. she's driving eastbound on i-4, which is sort of east, away from the orlando metro area in some of our more suburban areas, and she sees this blue car that, for whatever reason, she believes she may have cut this car off earlier down the road, the car starts circling her, honking at her, the people inside start yelling obscenities, shouting at her. and at one point, most frightening of all, this driver says she thought she even saw the two women inside that car flash a gun, as they were driving. now, keep in mind, this is one of the most busy highways in our area. it's a major throughway kind of north and east out of orlando, up towards daytona. so one of the woman in that car turned out to be miss misty croslin. >> with me right now and taking your calls live is the alleged victim in this case, courtney ballinger, accusing misty croslin of threatening her on the road. flipping her off, shooting a bird at her, threatening to beat her. miss ballinger, thank you for being with us. >> hi, good evening. >> miss ballinger, i heard the 911 call, but tell me again what happened. how do you believe this whole thing started? you cut somebody off? >> you know, i don't really know how it started. i was working and all of a sudden the car came up next to me with the driver hanging half out of the window and it progressed from there. >> the driver hanging out of the window! doing what? >> just basically saying, over and over again, you know, we're going to beat you up, you're dead, you're dead. she was hanging out, both of her hands were out of the window, waist up out of the car, telling me to roll my window down. it was pretty intense. i mean, we were going about 80 miles an hour in lunch hour traffic. it was a very dangerous situation that escalated very quickly. >> in lunch hour traffic, the driver's hanging out the window, both hands out the window, what, shooting a bird at you, flipping off, what? what was she doing with her two hands? >> well, one she was motioning for me to roll down the window and the next one, you know, she was basically pointing at me, waving her finger, you know, trying to scare me. >> what was the other one doing? what, steering? >> you know, i -- it was just so fast, i wasn't really paying attention to what the other one was doing. i just wanted it to go away. and i was, you know, for the first ten minutes -- this happened for about a half hour. the first ten minutes, you know, i was working. i was like, you know, whatever, they're -- obviously, they're angry, whatever. i tried to ignore them, but after about 10 to 12 minutes, that's when i had tried several times to speed up and get away from them, but they were relentless, they would not let me go. >> we're going 65, 80 miles an hour down i-4 and, you know, cutting me off, tailgating me, slamming on their brakes in front of me. i mean, i'm trying to avoid these people and it was just, it was escalating very fast. we are taking your calls live. let's unleash the lawyers. joining us tonight, famed defense attorney out of the california jurisdiction, john burris. also with us from the atlanta jurisdiction, renowned attorney, raymond giudice. okay, this is not a good look, giudice, for somebody that cops want to talk to in the disappearance and possible death of a 5-year-old little girl. >> she's not heeding the advice of her lawyer to lay low. but let me just throw out one thing. >> oh, add to that device, don't chase people down the interstate in broad daylight in rush hour. don't shoot birds. don't threaten to kill people. >> let's make one thing clear. the florida road rage reckless driveway statute applies only to the driver or owner of the vehicle. misty may have an verbal assault charge -- >> you're on a first name basis now? >> she may have a verbal assault charge, but not a road rage charge. >> pause. if the victim is telling the truth -- >> i have no reason to believe her. >> the driver was hanging out the window, which means, at some point, misty croslin, deduction, was driving the car. >> i think that's -- i don't think that's going to get a charge. >> woopsy. >> burris, what about it? >> i don't think that's going to justify a charge. plus, i don't think it's even believable. both arms were outside the window and the car was going 80 miles an hour and someone was trying to steer it from the other side. >> i believe it. >> i don't think a prosecutor will believe it. >> did you ever see thelma and louise? >> yeah, but that's movies. these are women and they're not necessarily acrobatic drivers type things. that's a serious allegation -- >> you know, it's just like you two. put them up, rosy, i want to see these two. it's just like you two to try to find a loophole, a technicality in the florida law whereby croslin wouldn't be responsible. and the are -- the reality is, we're talking about threatening, allegedly threatening a grown female -- >> nancy, the reality is -- >> -- beat her to death. >> the reality is, they were not charged by the law enforcement officers at the scene who interviewed this witness. >> and they let them go. >> they're home. >> they were hanging out of the window, flipping me off, you know, telling me they're going to kill me. you know, motioning that they had a weapon in the car. you no, it turns out they didn't have one, but they definitely wanted me to think they did. out of nowhere, they just started honking at me, circling me, hanging out of the window, saying, you know, threatening to beat me up, they're going to kill me. i think it's absurd that someone who's in trouble is going to go around and cause more problems for themselves. >> was the bed made? >> no, i was sleeping in that bed. how would the bed be made if someone was sleeping in the bed? i wasn't the only one sleeping in it, but how would it -- how would me and his son, how would the bed be made if we were in the bed sleeping? they've been on me for six months. they haven't left me alone for six months. i've been the one, the main focus. they just need to move on and look for the right person. >> and a bizarre twist, the last woman to see 5-year-old haleigh cummings alive, the girlfriend-turned-stepmother, misty croslin is now a suspect in an incident of road rage. to our chief editorial producer, ellie jostad, ellie, what more can you add? >> well, nancy, listening to this incident report, it sounds like something out of "cops". when they finally get croslin and the driver of the car to pull over at a mobile gas station, not only are the seminole county sheriff's deputy there, but also the lake mary police. they approach the car with their guns drawn. they cuff both croslin and the driver and search the car for a weapon, but when they don't find one, both of them are released. >> to former nassau county police investigator, now private investigator, that is exactly what the police should have done. that was not an overreaction. for all they knew, lou, there was a weapon in that car. >> yeah, that may very well have been the case. but, heidi, i want to wish my wife, julie, a happy anniversary. now to respond to that -- >> and i would like to tell her congratulations. okay, go ahead. >> thank you. i think the police acted consistently with this problem that they were brought into. based on the 911 tape, obviously, there was a high cause for alarm. quite frankly, i'm a little confused as to why they didn't take the onlator of the motor vehicle into custody and charge her with a crime and then let the district attorney sort this out. unfortunately, our friend who you are so very fond of, although she wasn't operating the vehicle, was still complicit in this activity, which was clearly reckless and dangerous. >> to molina schiavo, our producer on the story from the very beginning. so much is happening. we just learned the bombshell when it dropped that the two are divorcing and that has a lot of implications as far as the search for little haleigh and their techniques in how they will pursue misty croslin for questioning. but this is a real telltale sign, according to many court watchers. if she will behave this way in public, in rush hour, with a grown woman, what would happen at home with the doors closed, when a child acts out, throws a temper tantrum, irritates her for whatever reason. there are a lot of very disturbing ripples out of this one incident. what more do we know and why weren't they charged? >> well, first of all, nancy, you're right, this does not look good for misty croslin, even though, you know, she's been doing a lot of things that her lawyer has advised her not to do. and now this. so this is crazy. now, as far as the charges, the woman was so shaken, the victim in this was so shaken, she wasn't even thinking about paperwork or charges, she just wanted to get out of there. after the cops showed up and she realized she was safe, she just got out of there. that's why no charges have been filed. and yes, i found out, also, today, that misty was en route to her lawyer's office when this all happened. >> joining us tonight, the alleged victim of this incident of road rage, courtney ballinger. miss ballinger, why didn't they at least issue a citation? >> you know, i don't really know why no charges were filed. i wasn't asked if i wanted to press charges. basically, you know, the police officers came up and told me what happened and said they don't have any weapons, you know, are you okay to drive? and i said, yes, i'm okay, and i said, does that mean i can leave? and they said, yeah, you can leave whenever you want. and i left immediately. so i think if i would have stayed, i probably could have, you know, done something, but i was so shaken at that point, i just wanted to get back to my day. >> well, let me ask you this, you said you know charges are being filed. what do you mean by that? that you called police? >> i'm sorry, can you repeat that question? >> you said, i know charges were filed. what do you mean by that? that you called police? i mean, is there going to be follow-up? what's going to happen now? >> no, i don't think charges -- actually, charges were not filed. i don't plan on filing any. i just wanted to be rescued from the situation. i wasn't really trying to get anyone in trouble. i just wanted to get out of there. >> are you familiar with the search for haleigh cummings? >> you know, i wasn't really familiar with it. i'd heard that name, haleigh cummings, before, but it wasn't until all the news reporters started contacting me that i even knew who this person was or anything. i had no idea it was her. you know, i was shocked. i had no idea. >> joining me on the lines, toni in pennsylvania. hi, dear. oh, excuse me. janice in california. hi, what's your question? >> caller: hi, how are you? >> i'm good, dear. >> caller: i'm kind of wondering, maybe this courtney made a gesture to misty and then, you know, maybe got misty wound up and that's why misty kind of threw up in a rage. >> can i ask you something, jennifer? what makes you think that this woman made a gesture at the other car? i mean, have you heard a fact or any suggestion of that? i mean, are you just making that up? why do you think that's what caused this? >> caller: well, because of the story that this courtney made, you know, she could have stuck around and made -- you know, did charges and -- >> okay, that makes sense, jennifer. curtny ballinger, the alleged victim in this case. all signs point to the fact that you were the victim, you're the one that called 911, you're the one that pulled over to the side of the road for police to show up, if you had been the wrongdoer, i doubt you would have called police and then stuck around for them to show up. but let's talk about jennifer's question. why didn't you stick around to finish up the process and file charges? >> i wasn't asked to stick around and file charges. i thought that the police would handle it from there. and like i said, you know, i did nothing to provoke them. i was working. i'm in sales. i was driving to my next client, i was trying to make it there before 12:00. >> what do you for a living? >> and this happened. >> what do you do for a living, courtney? >> i'm in pharmaceutical sales. >> out to tony in pennsylvania. hi, dear. >> caller: hello, friend, how are you? >> i'm good. what's your question? >> caller: first of all, i think you hit the nail on the head with ronald the other night. i don't think he was telling you the truth at all. >> i don't either. >> caller: he does know more than what he's saying. what i found very amusing is that misty loved this child so much, she doesn't know the birth date, doesn't know the color of her hair, doesn't know her weight, her height and he continues to say, you let someone steal my kid. >> you know, that is exactly what he said that night on the 911 call. i think that tells it all. and you've got to think about his situation. he let it slip that he wants a divorce, that she did not want the divorce. and he is still waiting for her to sign the divorce papers. she still hasn't signed the divorce papers. he signed them. so right now, i've got a feeling he doesn't want to tip the apple cart. to brenda. hi, brenda, what's your question? >> caller: yes, ma'am, miss nancy, i want to say, i thank you for what you're doing, and i love you so. and my question is, the night that misty croslin put haleigh to bed, her and the little brother, at 10:00, and from 3:30 in the morning when ronald cummings came home, did they ping those cell phone towers to see where she was? >> good question. what about it, ellie jostad? >> well, nancy, we haven't heard yet if they have been able to pinpoint her location. it sounds like they haven't, because they're asking the public to come forward and fill in those blanks. to be the subject of two 911 calls in just a spate of months is not a good thing for girlfriend-turned-stepmother misty croslin. she was at home alone the night little girl 5-year-old haleigh cummings goes missing out of her own bed, according to croslin, and now she's accused of a road rage incident that left courtney ballinger, allegedly, in fear of her own life. does it ever end with this bunch? courtney ballinger, you're a pharmaceutical sales rep. you have to travel from doctor to doctor, hospital to hospital. you can't get away from being on the road. i would assume, as a lady driving by herself for a living, this is one of your fears, that there will be some type of incident on the road. >> well, absolutely. you know, i've done this for over a year now, driving every single day, all day, and i've never come in contact with someone so aggressive and so relentless on, you know, just nonstop. i mean, i've never come across -- >> how long, how long do you believe that they pursued you? >> about 30 minutes. i would say from start to finish, it was about 30 minutes. i ignored it for about the first ten minutes, which doesn't sound like a long time, but when you're driving and you're avoiding another car who's coming at you, i mean, it was a very stressful ten minutes. and you know, when they started -- they reached down and started flailing something around, you know, they wanted me to think that they had a weapon. they wanted to scare me. and that's when i called the police. out to the lines, kathy in florida. hi, kathy? >> caller: hi, nancy. i just want to say, my mother and i love your show, your beautiful children, and our prayers are with your mother. but i have a question about the storm door. if misty got up and seen the storm door open, held open by a block, was the inside door held open also? or -- i just don't understand that part. >> to rosy in the control room, see if you can pull up that video of marlaina in the home, showing us that door. marlaina schiavo, while we wait for that, explain. answer the question, please. >> the answer to that is, no, she wouldn't have seen it immediately, because the second door, the inside door closed automatically. the only theory that we have, and it's only a theory, is that maybe the inside door was propped open with some laundry that was on the floor, maybe holding it open. so that's where we are with that. >> you're seeing the inside of the home. there's the video of marlaina's tour of the home. just keep that rolling, rosy, because in a moment we're going to see marlaina walk to that back door that was allegedly propped open. cher in illinois, go ahead, cher. there you go, there's the door. >> caller: hi, nancy. love your show. >> thank you for calling in. >> caller: praying for your mom. got a question regarding misty. with her flunking two polygraphs and the voice stress test and everything else that's been reported about her, she would have to be considered a person of interest. why do they keep letting her leave town? >> let's go to the lawyers. john burris, san francisco, raymond giudice, atlanta. john burris, just as a person of interest, they can't make you stay put. >> absolutely not. a person of interest, as you know, is free to go. that just means they have some interest, they might think you're involved, but they don't have sufficient evidence to tie you into it. so they're free to go whenever they like to go and no law can stop them. they need to go to a different level to have probable cause to arrest them, in order to justify keeping them in a location. but otherwise, they're free to go wherever they like to go. >> you're right. and raymonded giudice, she's not been named a person of interest and i think there are reasons for that. either they don't have the evidence or if they -- once you're named a person of interest, that could invoke for constitutional rights. >> well, that's right. and additionally, i do think that they're allowing her to do this type of behavior and hopefully something else to lead them to -- i hate to use that phrase -- the smoking gun, the crucial piece of evidence to solve this crime. >> and to dr. michael bell, back to haleigh herself. my if the child is still alive, we know she has intense asthma and turner syndrome. if she is alive, what obstacles is she facing? >> well, i think the biggest problem would be her asthma. if she has a serious asthma condition, she's going to need medication. because asthma is going to prevent you from breathing normally. and that could be a very serious condition. >> everyone, very quickly, we're still taking your calls. i want to tell you about a group of boy scouts and a mormon missionary student who allegedly commit murder on a defenseless woman asleep in her own bed, a mother and attacked the 11-year-old little girl. take a listen. >> reporter: prosecutors say christopher gribble was armed with a knife and steven spader had a machete. authorities say william marks and quinn glover were also armed when they entered a home. kimberly and her 11-year-old daughter were sleeping inside. gribble and spader face three charges that include first-degree murder. prosecutors say both suspects hit cates and her daughter with their weapons. kimberly cates allegedly died in her bed while the 11-year-old suffered serious injuries. 11-ys injuries. they are not charged with murder, but are charged with burglary, conspiracy to commit burglary and armed robbery. >> to maria cramer with the boston globe, i understand the daddy had gone out of town that night? >> the father was away. he was away on business and kimberly and her daughter were home alone when the attackers came home at 4:30 in the morning on sunday. >> what went wrong, maria? boy scouts? missionary students? >> two of the young men charged and that would be steve spader and they were boy scouts together. chris is a mormon. that's correct. they fell apart we are told by family and friends. or friends and neighbors that chris began to dabble with knives and steve was bipolar and was not taking his medication and in high school they noticed a change and he was dressing and acting differently and he was not the friendly funny kid he used to be. >> we will be right back with maria cramer taking your calls. straight back to maria cramer with the boston globe, so the mother and little girl were home alone and i understand they live in kind of a secluded area down a dirt road, a tranquil, idyllic set something. >> exactly. it's the way you picture any new england town. heavily forest and a gorgeous place to live and a beautiful place for children. >> i hate it for the father to be out of town working and trying to support them and he get this is call. the wife is dead by machete attack. the little girl is clippinging to her life. the dad still standing by at the hospital with the girl. what more can you add? >> our understanding that in fact these men or should i say teens chose these victims at random. they made a pact to hunt and kill whoever was inside that house, not knowing who was there. >> that doesn't make sense. they had to know the father wasn't home. dr. bethany, author of deal breakers, boy scouts? woman missionaries enter a pact to kill and dismember? i don't get it. >> let's call it what it is. four monsters found each other in a small town and have probably been plotting and planning and ro mant sizing the idea of murder. there was probably one ring leader who made the final plan and insighted the others to follow. >> let's stop and remember army staff sergeant john lynndie, 30, killed iraq. from a long line of vets, awarded the bronze star, peperle heart and loved outdoors, fishing, racing atvs and dreamed of being a cop. left behind grieving father, widow and two daughters. john linde, american hero. thanks for being with us. please send your thoughts and prayers to our friend, just through emergency open heart surgery. everyone, i will see yo tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend. this is should your "showbiz tonight" news break. this is some of what we will be covering when we get things rolling at the top of the hour. the jon and kate birthday war amount of new battle between jon and kate erupts on their twins's birthday. why is jon reading personal e-mails from on camera and why is kate going on leno and making fun of herself? dave's deelementsa. why david letterman may not want his case to go to trial. the new revelations about his alleged affairs. >> harry connick jr. walks off a show. the connection to michael jackson and jaw dropping details about levi johnston's nude play girl photo shoot. the amazing and spectacular potty trained cat. that is your "showbiz tonight" news break. at the top of the hour here on hln. >> coming up on