Public service of private industry. We are cspan, created by the cable tv industry 35 years ago and brought to you as a Public Service by your local cable or satellite provider. Watch us in hd, like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. Supreme Court Justice and avid baseball from samuel alito took part in a recent discussion on baseball at the University Club of washington. The other speakers included usa today sports caused columnist Christine Brennan and you all of them spoke about the sports place in american society. This is a little over an hour. Good afternoon. As belle allen used to greet his audiences, hello, everyone, and how nice to see you. How wonderful it is to see you and wonderful to welcome you to the luncheon on the subject of baseball, americas game. Some people seem confused. They actually think pro football is americas game, but its not. Baseball is americas game. This is sponsored today in part by the boston red sox. I chair for the red sox. [applause] i chair for the red sox the great fenway park reuters series. This is an extension of that series. The red sox are the only team in professional sports that sponsors a literary series. Im also president of the city club of san diego in the denver forum, which are two American Public forums collectively of 70 years and more than 2200 programs presented in the Public Interest and the dialogue of democracy. This is our second washington event. If there are more that lie ahead, you will help us make that decision. In many ways, if you are going to do a literary series, this is one of the great duties in which great cities in which to do it. There are a number of writers here today. Carroll, who did the great book on Clarence Darrow and tip oneill. He is right there. Hello, jack. Jane luddy, who did two of the books ever, one on Mickey Mantle, and the other on sandy koufax. And ms. Levy is down here. [applause] and to every writer in the room, we want particularly to tell you how much we appreciate you and the art form in which you are engaged, because there are very few, if any, that are more important. I have several other introductions i would like to make. First, the former director of the federal bureau of investigations, the honorable william sessions. [applause] and the former council of the president of United States, mr. George w bush, miss harriet miers. [applause] i also want you to meet the cochairs of the washington writers series, two extraordinary individuals, huge hugely successful in the field of business. First, ike field. Ike, stand so we can greet you. [applause] and greg rosenbaum. Mr. Rosenbaum is somewhere there he is. [applause] i also want to acknowledge the president of one of the owners of the washington nationals, faye field. [applause] on the senior director for the ballpark experience of the nationals, maggie cussler. [applause] we have one book that is available for signing at the end. There are a few left. Dont leave the University Club without getting mr. Wills book and having him sign it for you. Now let me introduce our panel. Beginning with from the United States supreme court, associate Justice Samuel alito. [applause] and you can come on up. Next from the New York Times and cbs, david brooks. [applause] somebody who wrote a book entitled is this a great game or what . Which was the funniest book i ever read from espn, the one and only tim kurkjian. [applause] and one of my alltime favorites. To know her is to love her, from usa today, Christine Brennan. [applause] and finally on the panel, the incomparable the incomparable george will. [applause] in the book is on the 100th anniversary of Wrigley Field, a nice little place on the north side. Now it is my privilege to introduce our moderator, who has become a very great friend. You have a copy of one of his books. He has written two others, one on baseball, one on Leon Jaworski and james baker. He is an attorney from dallas, texas. An extraordinary fellow, hes here with his wonderful family. I would ask that you welcome please, talmage posten. [applause] before we begin, im going to take a little personal privilege. You see the rangers cap here. At the front table, we have part of the Ownership Group and executive Vice President from the rangers from the Texas Rangers, who have come to town this weekend to play a series. Its the first time that the Texas Rangers have played a game in the Nations Capital since they left town 41 years ago as the washington senators. [laughter] this is an historic occasion this weekend. As george will points out in his marvelous new book years ago, a man who probably knew nothing about baseball, with sir winston churchill, spoke about parliamentary ideals using words we hope to achieve in the next hour. Churchill said a good dialogue is quick, informal, and conversational, and requires a very small space, and on great occasions there should be a sense of crowd and urgency. With a tip of the cap to sir winston, our esteemed panelists today are all people at the top of their field, and are quick and informal and conversational, particularly as it regards our national pastime. We have a good sense of the crowd and a clock that compels a sense of urgency, so lets talk baseball. The first topic of conversation, your initial passion for the game. Bart giamatti once said the appeal of baseball is intimately wrapped up with the place where you got to know it in your youth. The question for the panel, where did you first get wrapped up in baseball . And in that place, briefly describe the place the game takes up in your heart. Justice alito, do you want to lead off . When i think about summers when i was young, they seem to have lasted forever. That is what my friends and i would do all summer. We played baseball. We collected baseball cards. Unfortunately, my strategy then was not to collect a lot of Mickey Mantle cards or willie mays cars, cards, which would now be valuable. I would trade my extra allstar cards for the card of some guy who played one game. [laughter] so i would have a complete series. And i remember going to games with my family. In those days, we would go to a doubleheader on sunday, i think, for under 15. We could drive to Philadelphia Park on the street, i tend to attend two games, bring our own lunch. We had a special spot where he was almost an obstructed view seats, but not quite, so it was a good bargain. And we tried to get into the two games before the sunday curfew in philadelphia. You could not in those days start an inning after 6 00 on sunday. But ill be darned. Christine brennan, how about you . Yes, there is always a toledo or two in the crowd. In any case, i grew up in the suburbs of toledo, ohio, and im the oldest of four kids. I had my own personal title ix. My father, jim brennan, became the Republican Party chairman in lucas county in ohio in 1988. A rockford republican and the biggest feminist i knew. Anyway, here i am growing up in the 1960s and 1970s and i wanted to follow baseball and he encouraged that every step of the way, as did my mom and siblings. I got one of those scoreboards score books, which im sure many of you had, and i listened by my radio and listened to the toledo mud hens games. Not only were there very few girls keeping score of minorleague baseball at the age of 10, but i was. And it was encouraged in our household. We had season tickets to the toledo mud hens. My dad arranged those for us. And we also went to a lot of Detroit Tigers games, because those of you that know baseball well know that the tigers have, except for a few years, been the triplea team of the Detroit Tigers. We got a chance to follow our favorites of the mud hens when they would be called up by the tigers and then go see them play at venerable tigers stadium. And like you, i also traded baseball cards. We would do Something Else. We would send the cards to the players and asked them to sign them, and every single time this is obviously a different era than now every time they did. And they sent them back. But the good old days. I have senators manager. I have hank aarons signature on a baseball, one of those alltime leader cards you may remember where it still said babe ruth, 714, and hank aaron and his signature on it. I still have all of those and im not giving any of them up. [laughter] george, we know of your love for the cubs. Where did it all begin . I grew up midway between chicago and st. Louis and age and at an age to tender to make major life decisions i had to choose between the cardinals and the cubs. All of my friends became cardinals fans and grew up cheerful and liberal. [laughter] i became a gloomy conservative. I played baseball all briefly and badly for a Little League team that had commercial sponsors. My team was the middendorf funeral home panthers. [laughter] our color was black. Baseball at that time, i think as christine mentioned the radio, baseball was literally in the air in central illinois. You had two teams with buddy brown and then two teams in chicago, and of course, the cardinals. I listened to a lot of baseball. And i think i became a cubs fan because i could not bear the cardinals announcer, who was harry carey. [laughter] who is now the statue outside Wrigley Field. No good deed goes unpunished. And i will tell you, georges new book has a great little anecdote about harry carey, and i will leave it at that. But dont miss it. David brook, new york mets fans, how did baseball make a line drive into your heart first . In 1968, i was seven years old living in Lower Manhattan and i discover the new york mets. It was fine. They were not good. [laughter] then the next year, the skies opened up, got appeared with the pillar of fire and god appeared with the pillar of fire. Miracle of miracles, and may the most magical moment of my life and certainly the most magical year in the mets history, every miracle could happen that could happen happened. Nobody had a better feel for the game than my father. Player in his day. This was all we talked about growing up. This is all we did, all we talked about growing up. In the sixth grade, missed fevered, my teacher, stopped class at 1 30 p. M. So we could watch the World Series Games between the red sox and the cardinals. And for a young guy like me who was madly in love with the game at that point, to have a teacher say, we are not studying anymore, we are going to watch the world series here, that was really important to me. And then of course, i went to Walter Johnson high school, named after the greatest pitcher of all time. And i played baseball and basketball there, but i also wrote for the pitch, the school paper. [laughter] and i did some work for the yearbook, and that was called lineup. I figured i went to a school and after the biggest pitcher ever. I figured i had to make a career move. I decided i better be a Baseball Writer and here i am 35 years old and still a Baseball Writer. [applause] second topic, baseball heroes. Bart giamatti said among all the men who play baseball, there is very occasionally a man of such qualities of heart, mind, and body that he transcends even the great and glorious game. The question for the panel give us your perspective on the ballplayer who most has transcended the game. George, do you want to start . No. [laughter] no, i hesitate, because transcending baseball would be a vice. I will just tell you who my favorite player was. How is that . In my 60 something years watching baseball, my favorite player is Rickey Henderson. Baseball, unlike football where a quarterback gets hot or a running back or a shooting guard in basketball can take over the game, it is a game where you could not take over the game, except he could. He would get up there in that crowd with the strike zone the size of rhode island and he would get to first base and he would deal second and get heard on an infield out and score on a fly field over. If you look at his numbers, you have to put him among the alltime greats. And if you put him together, as we all do in our spare time, the alltime team, you get to the outfield and youve got babe ruth. And it seems to me, if youre going to play a game, then in your alltime outfield is Rickey Henderson. Great. Tim . I have a few. I grew up here, so Eddie Brinkman was a shortstop for the washington senators when i was a kid, and he was great. When i met him as a scout, told him what a great fan i was of him and he looks at me like he could not believe that anyone actually watch him play. [laughter] and of course, frank howard was my hero here, because he hit home runs to places where they are still not hitting them today. And he had been there 50 years ago. During my prime as a kid, willie mays was the best player ive ever seen, and to this day he is still the greatest player ive ever seen. I learned more watching cal ripken as a baseball player come and as a basketball player and others than anyone. And the other day i this is the beauty of the game, i sat next to that sampodria of the red sox, who is an inch and a half taller than i am. And trust me when i tell you this my hands, which are big for a little guy, my hands are twice as big as his. And he is the m. V. P. In the league a few years ago and hes still one of the best players in the game. And he looks more like me than anybody. If you were sitting in his room and you did not know who he was, you would not know that is destined for drogheda. That is the beauty of this that is destined for drogheda dustin pedroia. And that is the beauty of the [applause] [applause] game. Little guys can play baseball. Tommy, what about you . One guy that i still admire and i think played greatly was dave madigan. He had a great swing. The wall across the plate before he would begin his swing and he would still complete his swing somehow. Just a short, beautiful little swing. It was just tranquil and serene. I am reminded of Rickey Henderson, which does treat teach you one truth about the game was up it is not a game that rewards thinking all the time. [laughter] i dont know where i got this story, i think most of my stories come from tims book, so this could be a repetition. But i recall a story that i would not trust in the paper without checking this out. He was given his big bonus come his first big bonus in the majors. And the team noticed he never cashed the check. And they said, why havent you cash this check . And he said, i framed it. I wanted to keep it as a souvenir. [laughter] and the other Rickey Henderson story i know is that he was playing he came to the mets and was playing a first base than that were a helmet on his head i hope this is from your book. It is, it is. Ok, you tell it. Is your story. You wrote it. Im not stealing it. The first baseman was john orman and he had a brain aneurysm, so he wore a helmet in the field just to protect his head. Rickey played with him in new york, and then they ended up together interop so in he sees john l root in toronto and he sees john l root in toronto and he says, you know, i used to play with a guy in new york that laid with a helmet on. And l root said, ricky, that was me. [laughter] collect the check, by the way, was for 1 million. It was an expensive the check, by the way, was for 1 million. It was an expensive framed artifact. When ricky was with the yankees, he got on the team bus one day and team rules vary from team to team. He sat down in the front seat and someone said, that is for people with tenure. And he said, tenure . Ive got 16 years. [laughter] later in his career he called kevin kevin towers, then the general manager of the padres and left the following message on his voicemail. He said, kt, this is rickey calling about ricky. Ricky wants to play baseball. That is why he is my hero. Justice alito, who is the person who most transcended the great and glorious game echo i think without glorious game . I think without question, the person who most transcended the game was jackie robinson. He was a figure of his stark importance beyond baseball. My favorite player growing up was richie ashburn. Why i picked them, i dont know. He was a great player. I also dont know why i picked the phillies. My situation was similar to georges. I lived in trenton, which was halfway between new york and philadelphia. And in the 1950s, the yankees won the world series practically every year. The phillies had never won a world series, so naturally i chose the phillies. [laughter] and i do think it has an effect on your thinking. But richie was a great lawyer. He was kind of a money ballplayer before his time. He almost never hit a home run, but he had a great eye. He walked a lot. And he could foul off pitches almost indefinitely. You reminded me of a great richie story as we were walking in. He would foul off. He was a lefthanded hitter, so he would file off these line drives foul off these line drives into the seats. And on one occasion, the ball hit a woman and she was hurt. They were carrying her out, maybe in a stretcher. But they were carrying her out, and the next pitch is in and richie hits another foul ball, hit the same woman on the [laughter] all right, christine. These guys are a tough act to follow. However, in terms of transcendent can absolutely jackie robinson. I think we all would agree. I also have to just throw out a name i mentioned a bit ago, babe ruth. I bet you there are kids today playing baseball, hopefully just for fun in their yard, boys and girls. And someone demanding to be babe ruth today. That transcends everything by decades, centuries, what have you. I certainly think babe ruth lives on in many ways in all of us, and for the best reasons. And again, my childhood favorites were the toledo mud hens who went up to the Detroit Tigers. And i do have a night brown. Ike brown. We watched him catch a ball barehanded over the outfield fence. He reached out and caught it barehanded and then through the runner out at second. You dont see that very often. And a fellow named Tom Timmermann. You might remove that name. He played for the tigers when they were not very good. You might remember that name. He played for the tigers when they were not very good. When he came from the mud hens, the clubhouse and the deck out were not sick dugout were not together. The players had to walk through the sand. And Tom Timmermann would say, you again . And it was, us again, as we got another autograph. He became a pretty good pitcher for the tigers during their lean years. Those were my favorites. Favorite teams. Our giamatti grew up in massachusetts and his favorite was the red sox, 15 years before the curse of the bambino ended. He said the red sox are an affliction. The annually reenact the fall of humankind. That is what used to be. More than anything they recreate the aspiration, inspiration, and the declining into exile. As george points out in his new book, the poet robert frost talks about the love affair that people have with their team, but they also have lovers quarrel. What is the worst lovers quarrel youve ever had with your favorite beloved team . Who wants to go first . No lovers quarrel and echo no lovers quarrel . Weve got some rangers stories. [laughter] but i will jump in i will jump in. I guess it would not be a baseball conversation if i did not mention the dreaded word cerro and performanceenhancing drugs. Johnnie perl to last year for the tigers was suspended as part of the bs drug bust in baseball history to stop biggest drug bust in baseball history. I think we can all agree that is a good thing. And in the tigers had him come back and play in the postseason. I did a column and i thought that was just awful that he could come back. His suspension was up, but it seemed wrong to me. As someone who follows the steroids era in the olympics and in baseball, its such a huge story and remained a huge story in many ways because of the lesson it teaches our children. We want that scrawny shortstop, boy or girl, and one third of steroid users in high school according to statistics are girls. We want that girl a boy who was a sophomore in high school who thinks if they get a little bigger and try Something Different they will be like their heroes. We want them to get the message by having these adults who are there role models tossed out of the game. I think it is a terrible thing for the tigers to do, to let him play, to let him have the joy of being in the postseason. As you know, Major League Baseball has now come up with the role come to be known as the Johnny Peralta rule, that if you are suspended, you cannot reap the benefits of the postseason, even if your suspension is up, which was the case with her all caps withperalta last year for the george, your book cover this. William butler yates said life is a long preparation for something that never happens. [laughter] basically, any experience of being a cubs fan, there are some any low light. The most important thing that ever happen in Wrigley Field it turns out didnt happen. The called shot was a myth that as we say in journalism, was too good to check. [laughter] and i say this with some trepidation in front of my tent my friends from the Texas Rangers, because i was at game six in 2011, which im sorry. I was at the bartman game in chicago when the poor devil did what any fan would do, and indeed would a dozen other fans around him were doing, which was reaching for a foul ball that was in the stands. It was not an interference. And if moises had not had a little tantrum, which to this day he regrets, bartman would not be in the witness protection program, wherever he is. [laughter] leaving that night, this is game six, and we were walking down the ramps and someone shouted mr. Will, we will get him tomorrow. And i said, not a chance. When the cubs were in the postseason in 1984, they were playing the padres. This is the first two games of Wrigley Field, the bestoffive. The cubs won the first two games and would play three if necessary and sundry go in san diego. Im walking out of the ballpark with another broadcaster who was a pitcher. And he said, now do you cubs fan believes now do you cubs fans believe . And i said, every cubs fan believes it is the bestoffive. The ball went through the legs of the first baseman durham. All right, tim. I guess my quarrel was with oral weaver of the orioles, who was with one of the three greatest managers of all time, a guy learned so much from. The first time i met him was in 1979. I was going to be the backup Baseball Writer at the washington star, and dan johnson introduced me to earl. I was a little nervous about all this. He said, earl, this is tim, and he will cover the team and help me out a little bit this year. And earl looks at me and says bleep you, tim and walks away, and that was it. [laughter] but he taught me so much. [laughter] he made me laugh so many times. And the only stroll story that you need to know about earl is that while he was managing one of his outfielders, pat kelly decided to join the ministry while he is playing in the major leaks. The major leagues. Pat waits for the moment to tell his manager of this really big step in his life. He finally finds a Perfect Moment and he goes to earl and he said, earl, im going to walk with the lord and earl says, i would rather you walk with the bases loaded. [laughter] and this last story isnt funny, but tells you an awful lot about earl, and a lot about buck showalter. I was at a simulated game, which tells you what kind of life i lead. [laughter] two years ago, buck and im sitting with earl weaver at a simulated game. There are four people there and we are sitting next to the dugout. But calls me over and i know him really well. Dont start me on him either, and because we will be here all day. Buck says, we are going to run the pickoff play that he famously invented in the 1960s. Buck knows that earl invented this. So he ran it during this simulated game. He said, dont tell earl. Buck did that for earl, runs the play and earl snacks smacks me on the shoulder and says, that is my pickoff play. Meaning, out of respect for earl, they ran this pickoff play. And am a 60 years later, earl recognized it and recognized, hey, they are doing this for me. That told me a lot about earl, and even more about buck showalter. Justice alito, did you ever have a lovers quarrel with the phillies . O, yeah, quite a few. [laughter] without question, the biggest was in 1964. The phillies were, after having a horrible team, some of the worst teams ever in baseball in the early 1960s, somehow very improbably they were in first place with i think 12 games to go, 6. 5 games ahead. It was almost impossible to blow that. They were going to go to the world series. It was incredible for me, having suffered through those years. And baseball has this ability to break your heart. I dont know if theres any other game that can do it quite the same way. Because there are these moments when something happens and the ball through buckners legs, or there is a decision someone makes an years later, you wonder if it was the right decision. The phillies manager, gene locke, decided he did not have confidence in the number three and ever for starters. In those days, they had a fourpitcher rotation. Chris short pitched everyday for the rest of the year and they lost. They went on a losing streak. The cardinals went on a big winning streak and the world series came around and the phillies were not in the world series. That really scarred my use my youth. [laughter] david . Jim bunning was exactly the same kind of senator as he was a pitcher. [laughter] actually, i was at game six with you that night. It was in dallas at a big ballroom and we watched the game on a big screen. I spoke. It was probably the least attended speech ive ever given. And then six through nine, and pride it was before the fall. Because the rangers were winning. Ira member people saying, six more outs, 5 ira member people saying actually, chanting, six more outs, five more outs. It was terrifying for me, because thomas was going to drive me home. [laughter] the champagne turn to harder stuff as the game slipped away. [laughter] fortunately, the better half of the family whispered to me, dont worry, i will take you home. With my with mets fans, there are many feuds. Trading nolan ryan was a really good idea. [laughter] though will call the guy called me and said, you should really invest for this guide madoff. This guy, madoff. [laughter] the real question for reporters, ive always tried hard to stay away from the team for fear it would affect my love. The press passes used to get if you work for the newspaper. Ive done it a couple of times and ive felt acutely uncomfortable in the locker room. I love watching these guys play. I dont want to see them need not chose. [laughter] ive always tried to maintain a distance, but you guys have kept the love of the game even while still implement with them. Intimate with them. Right, cheating. Ask of cheating are secretive, covert acts that seek to undermine the basic foundation of any contest and your destroy faith in the games integrity and fairness. We had a rusher had another perspective on cheating. He said, i believe in rules, because if there were any rules, how could you break them . To the question. How does cheating affect your engagement with baseball . Who wants to go first . But there are two kinds of cheating. The cheating with performance enhancing drugs is intolerable because it changes the Playing Field and requires people either to put their health at risk or their careers at risk. And therefore has been met with proper sanctions. And i think although we are in an ending competition between the good chemist and the bad chemist, the bad chemist producing drugs and the good chemist finding ways to test for them. It is probably correct her to say we can close the steroid parentheses in baseball, i think we are getting there. As far as cheating a great guy in broadcasting said, the only way to lewinsky t ulowitzki can be playing like this is if he is stealing signs. I say, get better signs. [laughter] for those of you who have not read it, there is an essay about as long as war and peace on the unwritten rules of baseball. Dont steal if you are five runs ahead in the seventh inning, dumb stuff like that. Its a hilarious insight into what baseball considers if not cheating, at least bad manners. Cheating, tim . Cheat people have been cheating in baseball whether you like it for the last 130 years. Interestingly, i have Bobby Valentine once bobby knows an awful lot about baseball. I asked him, is sticking a needle in your butts and doing steroids, is that cheating . And he said, is of course that is. And i said, is nothing a baseball cheating . Is scuffing a baseball cheating . And he said, of course it is. I said, is sticking a needle in your butts more cheating than scuffing a baseball . And he said, absolute not. The pitchers who are really good at scuffing a baseball are really good at it and can pretty much guarantee success. Whereas sticking a needle in your but does not guarantee anything. Hes dealing guy ive heard put it that way. He is the only guy ive heard put it that way. Three years ago, derek dieter pretended to get hit by a pitch. Derek jeter is our best guy. However you multiply, he is our best. However, he got hit in the bat right here and he pretended like he got hit on the hand and he fakes like he got hurt and he ran to first base and got away from the pitch. And people were outraged. How could derek jeter do this . And i had to defend him in baseball terms that this is what they are taught from the day they get to baseball in high school, if not before. Everyone out there is taught as a professional player, youve got to get on, no matter what. Cheating is a little tricky for me. Im not sure i understand exactly what it is, but i know that for 130 years people have been cheating in baseball. And as tom always told me, if you are not cheating, you are not trying. [laughter] Justice Alito, where do you weigh in on cheating . [laughter] im going to defend cheating. [laughter] i think the steroids were a real black mark on baseball. Baseball is based or baseball is a sport where statistics matter. Everybody remembers who hit the most home runs, r. B. I. s. Statistics are any more missed part of the game an enormous part of the game. Steroids should be disregarded, certainly for those who have admitted that they have taken steroids. You have to be suspicious of a lot of the statistics that have been compiled during that era. I think it really hurt the game a lot. Tim makes an interesting point about the types of cheating that are accepted in baseball. Certainly, pretending to be hit i a pitch is one of them. Or tending to catch a ball that was trapped is another one. That just seems to be accepted. It is interesting, why baseballs approach to those things is different from other sports. Of course, there are aristocratic sports like golf and tennis, if you did anything comparable to that, it would be a scandal. But even in stocker in soccer, you get a penalty for diving in and inhockey in ice hockey you get a penalty for diving. I guess the only explanation for that is, if the canadian sport. [laughter] it is a canadian sport. [laughter] christine . I would repost you that we are still in the steroid area. Having is, sorry. I would propose to you that we are still in the steroid area. Happy news, sorry. As a journalist, you are presented the news as it unfolds in front of you and you go with it. We are in the steroid era of sports. 100 years from now, when students are studying holograms or ridding the wallpaper, or whatever they are doing to study history, it will be known, this time, as the steroid era. And that includes performanceenhancing drugs, what have you. The olympics started drug testing in 1972. And the olympics, of course, still have a performance enhancing drug problem. They still catch cheaters, as the Lance Armstrong solder a couple of years ago was unpleasant for everybody, certainly the Cancer Community and the rest of us. It was a sport strategy on many levels. It is also good that we caught him and he was brought to justice. If you think about it, the limbic started the olympics started that in 1972 and there are still cheaters in the elliptic. Baseball started in 1984 was up started in 2004. Baseball is 30 years behind the old games. If we look at the olympics as our guide and im sorry for throwing cold water on the conversation, but if we look at the olympics as our guide, we know that at times are ahead. Bad times are ahead. The bad chemist will try to stay ahead of the good chemist. I do think there will be designer drugs and new ways to do things and new ways to deal with genes. And when there is so much money out there, and there is way more money in baseball than the olympics, Michael Phelps would just be an average employee in the baseball locker room with his salary. There is so much money in baseball. My sense is that they are looking for new ways to do this. I hope im wrong, but i think felix shows us we have some years to go here the olympics shows us we have some years to go here. David . Im just thinking about the difference between scuffing and steroids. I think the reason we are not scuffing bothered by scuffing is that it is somewhat mitigated by cleverness. That is part of it. I think Justice Alito makes a decision the distinction that in golf, you dont cheat. It is a democratic game, baseball. It doesnt have some of the affectations of the upperclass post and finally, its just a game. And for all we love it, at the end of the day, it doesnt really matter. It matters in our hearts, but not in the war and peace terms for the i totally admire the staffers. Not in war and peace terms. I totally admire the ball scoffers. Scuffers. In some ways, the showboating part of the game has offended me more than the scuffing. Googling Ryan Sandberg and hall of fame speech, the speech he gave at the hall of fame several years ago now was among the best hall of fame speeches ever given. He talked about how to play the game how he tried to play the game in order to live up to the standards of those who came before and was not about showboating. It was a beautiful moral speech about how to behave with the craft. Next topic, instant replay. George will once said, sport should be the triumph of character, openly tested, not of technology here cap of technology. What is your reaction to instant replay . I was on the committee that came up with instant replay. Although the heavy lifting was done by the committee. I was slow to learn and resistant to all change, until joe torre said, you go to a ballpark and there are 40,000 people there. The people in this week have television and they see the replay. The people getting a hot dog in the concourse have televisions and they see the replay. Almost everyone is too poor to have a device in their hands and to the replay. With 40,000 people in the ballpark and four people want to know what happened. They are called umpires. [laughter] they have to learn how to spell bluetooth. So people dont have to walk over and put on headphones. That is so 20th century. It will get a little quicker. And it will be tweaked and refined. The other day, the pirates won a game on a walkoff replay call. In the curmudgeons said, it was a walkoff committee meeting. Yes, but it was better than a walkoff mistake. I have come to like it. Justice alito . I think its a very good idea. Chief Justice Roberts famously said a few years ago that judges are like umpires. I think that is true. The umpires on the field are like the trial judges. And we know they get things wrong sometimes, so you have to have an appeal to the umpires in new york, who review the replay. The only thing that is wrong with the system is it only has two levels. [laughter] you need somebody to keep the umpires in new york in line. [laughter] anybody want to add to the subject of what has been discussed . Ok, next question. The speed, or lack thereof, in baseball. Last week in the wall street journal there was a article that rattle off these facts. In 1954, ball was put in play every two minutes and 29 seconds and wages every three minutes 30 seconds. Game time in 2014 is 13 minutes longer than it was in 2010. Baseball requires more patience from a society that has less of it. It might have something to do with the fact that between 20 2009 and 2012, the number of children playing baseball in america between the ages of 717 fell by 18 . If you are bud seligs successor as commissioner of baseball, do you do anything to address this issue of the games increasingly slower pace . Use the right word you used the right word. It is the pace of the game, not the length of the game. People complain about the pace of the game to the sportswriters. The pace of the game matters, because tom or gucci has demonstrated that by now, only 81 of the pitches are put in play. The idea of going deep into the count where the starting pitcher will get into the middle relief, which is supposedly where mediocrity is in baseball, and then you win the game. The per the trouble with the middle relief now is he a 64 and 195 and you dont get anything from this. What we are doing, however is having six or seven pitching changes in the game, and they take time was up and they take time. The guy who was warming up in the bullpen comes in and warms up again with eight pitches on the mound, ostensibly because there might be a difference between the bullpen mound and the pitching mound and the field of play, when in fact in almost no ballpark is there a difference. If i could ban batting gloves [laughter] it is them believable. Everybody has garcia parra disease. [laughter] John Miller Noll on a go watched not long ago watched kinescope of game 7, 1963 world series. Yankeesdodgers. He said, not once did either a yankee or a dodger step out of the batters balks once he got in. The culture of baseball has changed. Purdue g talked about var gucci talked about a bat that was 10 minutes because the batter would step out and the pitcher would step off and the whole nature of baseball has changed, starting in the minor leagues. You tell them that their livelihood depends on a younger, more energetic, more impatient generation of americans wanting to see more energy on the field. And one way we can do that if we can have guys swing the bat a little more often, which is kind of what george is talking about. Adam dunn, a few years ago, struck out looking 72 times in one season. Had williams never struck out 72 times in any season, swinging or looking. Joe dimaggio struck out 39 times. That was his career high. Adam dunn struck out looking 72 times. Mike trout is the best player in the game, hands down, and he went a oneyear timeframe and struck out looking 53 times. Im telling you, its an epidemic in the game that we are also preoccupied with onbase percentage. Hey, a walk is better than a hit. First off, a walk is never better than a hit. It is good. I love them. We have a generation of layered now who are saying, lets walk a hit. Lets work a deep count was at lets get it to 22. We get to 22 and we have not even swung the bat yet. Rink robbins told me years ago that hes never seen so many fastballs right down the middle of the plate that people do not swing at. What is going on . This was eight years ago. And it gets worse every single year to the point now where the strike zone is as big as a license plate and the hitters are taking advantage of that and saying, well, im going to swing what i want to swing. If i strike out, fine. John greco always tells me, deep that that, if you strike out on a 32 count, that is not a good atbad. If you struck out, you think. That is not a good atbat. If you struck out, you stinl. [laughter] yesterday at the white house we were talking about concussions. And a lot of parents are saying to their kids, especially boys, i do want you playing football. And of course, the concussion rate for ice hockey for boys and for women and girls soccer are also huge. We see potentially parents saying not tomorrow, but maybe in the next 10, 15, 20 years, you know, baseball. Obviously, there is a threat of injury and trouble for a child in any sport. Every time you walk out of your house, theres a chance you could get hurt or injured or what have you. Will we see parents want to start directing their kids back to baseball from football . I dont know what the future holds. But this concussion story is going to be fascinating to watch how that plays out over the next few decades. Likewise, one of the things that i have actually talked to the commissioner bud selig about is, you referred to have in the world series on in the afternoon and be able to watch on tv. How many of us had friends that would bring the transistor radio in to listen to the world series on an afternoon while we were in school. Of course, no child today or for the last 20 years has been able to talk about that or say that, much less say what happened beyond what the third or fourth inning of any World Series Game is, because they have gone to bed. How many kids are we losing because they dont get a chance to watch it . And one last thought. That is obviously concerned. One last thought, im actually glad that baseball is a little slower than other sports. And again, how many times i have taken kids to games and watch them enjoy it, watch them talk about it with their parents, maybe teach them how to keep score. Use a pen and a piece of paper. It is a welcome relief from the computer and video games. I certainly hope the game doesnt start to try to attract those kids yes, video games are important, but just the joy of watching a game with a game with the child, there is still Nothing Better than that. [applause] i sort of agree with the need to speed up a little bit, but the mitigating factor is still the same and is wellknown, which is that football is an action game and baseball is a drama game. A lot of the excitement of baseball is the excitement is the stuff that happens between the pages. And they do a good job of the cutaway shots to people and the tension of what is about to happen, like so much in life, is more satisfying than what actually does happen. Just a final point that is a comment on my romantic life. [laughter] no, its not. I dont know where that came from. I just realized im on cspan. Fantastic. [laughter] i just want to say one thing about the youth a small baseball lets move on, folks. [laughter] that is, for the last 20 years, my baseball experience has been about 80 youth baseball analyst one percent professional baseball. And only 20 professional baseball. In my view, the reason youth baseball is dropping off is in part a cousin of the float as of the game, but also the falling off of coaching at the early levels is in part because of the slowness of the game, but also the falling off of the coaching at early levels. Justice alito, do you want to weigh in on the pace of the game . I would like to see it sped up. The time between pitches the pitchers bear part of the fall. The batters bear part of the fault for stepping out. And the television between innings. I think that is probably a factor in the problem that baseball has with young people. But i dont know whether i dont know how important it is. I will occasionally record a football game. You can watch an nfl game in probably 15 minutes. I might be exaggerating. Because the time when something is actually happening is very short and the rest of it is time between plays. Baseball is an acquired taste. It is not a sport that is appealing to people who dont have a background in baseball. Somebody comes here from europe, for example, and you take them to a baseball game come and they dont know what is going on. It is not as interesting to them as it is it is about as interesting to them as it would be for us if we went to a cricket match. But something is definitely happening. I will tell you this little story. My son and i went to a game last year and sitting behind us was a young man with a date. I could not help hearing what they were saying. He was definitely trying to impress her with how much he knew about baseball. She didnt know much about baseball because she wanted to know whether a ball was a fair ball or a foul ball if it started out in the air over fair tears tory and landed over fair territory and landed in foul territory, so she was not going to call him on anything he said. She said, what is the batting average . He said, that is the percentage of pitches that the batter hits with his bat. [laughter] and i thought, this is the biggest sign of cultural decay in the United States. [laughter] it defies every categorization. The story i will tell quickly a lot of people tell their favorite story, after president nixon resigned from the white house, a few years later he was trying to restore his image. He would go on talk shows. He was in the green room before it was his turn to go on the show. The prisoner was going to be after him into the green room. It was the lawyer for from the bobby seale, these 11 talking about each other in hating each other for years. They had never met. Here they are in this room by themselves. No one else is around. They talk about the one thing they can feel good about. That was baseball. I will ask the panel, do you have a situation where you thought i door was closed or there was some reason that you were not going to connect with somebody, and the subject of baseball brought you into harmony. [laughter] the woman on the panel, it was great on early dates with the guys. When they found that you could talk baseball and keep score. I went to northwestern. Several wonderful dates at Wrigley Field. I would be keeping score with my date for the evening. We had a great time. That helps. Thatld say the thought comes to mind, 1968, i was nine years old10 years old. The Detroit Tigers won the world series. At the same time, detroit was a blaze. So many of our cities were dealing with the aftermath of the Martin Luther king assassination. To this day people in detroit and even people around michigan the great coach of Michigan State mens basketball team. We remember hearing about the tigers and how they were unifying that city even the city defying unity. There were three africanamerican players who played major role for that team. Even as the community was erupting and the issues that were present in detroit, were same issues that were present in some many cities, you had the africanamerican population of detroit rallying around their tigers. Because of those three africanamerican players. I think thats kind of a nice story. George, you got at story . I think democracy is served because because theres so much losing in a 162 game season. Everything goes to they play the whole year to sort out the game. If you win 10 out of 20, your definition is mediocre. Its a game in which just as democracy the system of a half loaf. No one gets everything they want. Baseball is the sport of half loaf. Speaking of losing, talmadge, i covered the 1988 orioles. No team come close to doing that. Frank robinson the manager takes the writers out to eat after minneapolis lost. He said the president called me today. Frank was a big kidder. Finally he said look, the president of the United States called me today. I said frank what did he say. Frank, i know what youre going through. Frank said, mr. President , you got no idea what im going through. [laughter] baseball opened up a friendship or door for you . I never been out of harmony with other people. [laughter] it cements friendship. We do this show on fridays. Our segment is called shields and brooks. We want to call it brookshields. On the air we talk politics. Off the air we just talk sports. Were never out of hormoneny. Just to have that facility to talk sports, just constantly cementing joyful unselfish conscious way to spend time together. Two things, civility requires selfrestraint. One of the great books of philosophy ive read is a book buy a guy called the mental of abc pitching. Its a book about how to control your mind. Pitching is about controlling what you paying attention to. One of his recommendations for pitchers first of all, hes always for offense. Just go after the hitter. Do not waste a pitch. Just go forward. Very simple. If youre on the mound, you should have two things on your mind, pitch selection and location. If theres Something Else on your mind get off the mound. I recalling a conversation he said he had with greg maddux. He said to him, how did it go today. Maddux said, 73 out of 87. What he meant by that was the ball left my fingers correctly 73 times out of 87 pitches. After your ball leaves your fingers, you have no control. Its about focusing on what you control and limiting your own thought process to what you can do. The final thing ill say is, im always resistant to mix baseball with the rest of life. The rest of life is messy and unpleasant. Baseball is a hobby. During the bush years, i was invited to have lunch with the president. I drove down to southern virginia where my son was playing baseball. Across the field, one of the players from the other team from a town from around pittsburgh, was jim leelands son. He was sitting across, i remember thinking, i am so thrilled to see that guy. Thrilled to see leeland. The president , they come and go. Justice alito. Well let you close. Anything in baseball helped you . Mixing baseball with the rest of life. I think for fans what baseball does, is to channel natural aggression and trivial instincts which people have. David and i are sitting here with a phillies hat and a mets hat but were very civil. I guarantee you, now that the price of a ticket has gotten higher and things have changed, but back in the not so old days, if i went to the stadium with a phillies hat and the phillies were winning or if david came to we were sitting in the cheap seats and he was cheering for the met. In the vet, they had a lock up in the stadium. It channeled peoples natural tendency to fight with each other into something that isnt really important as opposed to fighting about something that is. I want to turn the program over to george. [applause] let me just quickly first thank cspan in my lifetime, 46 years in politics. No more significant thing happened than cspan. If you believe in a necessity of government and the process of government, cspan has just been so extraordinary in what theyve done. Were grateful that cspan decided to share this time with us today and will share it with the nation. I want to acknowledge the president. Hes presence, the Homeland Security assistant. Are you here allen . My appreciation tonight wonderful friend from texas talmadge boston. My very great appreciation mr. Tim, mr. Brooks, just alito, ms. Brannan and mr. Will. To all of you. Lets do the appropriate things and thank this extraordinary panel. [applause] Jennifer Duffy discusses the midterm elections. Jonathan allen discusses Hillary Clintons memoir. The release of five prisoners in exchange of bo bergdahl. We take your calls and you can join the conversation at facebook and twitter. Washington journal, live on cspan. We wanted a building that was accessible to the community. It needed to be able to ,ncorporate a future we didnt you cant predict the future. The problem with the old library is we were tapped out on s. Mputer our new building needed to have flexibility and movement into the future. One thing we like about the design, he combined different geometric features. We have the triangular main part a the building, we have structure we call the bar. They are bridged together with highlights skylights. We have a three or 60 degree view of our surroundings. For think it is vital communities to have a library that brings people together. This space was geared in bringing the community together. It is an opportunity for people to remember the things that hold. City together they like we have physically done that with our structure. Learn about the literary life of salt lake city, utah throughout the weekend. What role should the government play in Housing Finance . Like if you want to subsidize housing in this country and talk about it and the degrees it should be subsidize, put it on the Balance Sheet and make a evidentd have it and. When you delivered through these thirdparty enterprises, three Public Company with rugged shareholders, and executives who can extract that subsidy for themselves, that is not a very good way of subsidizing homeownership. Read more of our conversation with gretchen mortenson. Next, a debate with republican Chelsea Clinton talking about the importance of women in leadership roles. Next, a primary debate with republican candidates for u. S. Senate in south carolina. Incumbent Lindsey Graham is seeking a third term. He faces six challengers in tuesdays primary. This is the first time senator graham has faced his opponents in a debate. This is one hour