Transcripts For CSPAN Atlantic Council Hosts Discussion On Government Protests In Zimbabwe 20160821

Council for this mornings conversation. Ands really a privilege distinct pleasure to be able to to thestor Atlantic Council. He is a zimbabwean pastor of a small church and until april of this year, he was not widely known even within this country, let alone to those of us who follow African Affairs outside the country. Figure or a political activist. In fact, his identity as an average citizen of the country citizensental to the movement gaining the widespread traction that it has throughout the country. Now known to all of us through the trademark zimbabwean flag draped around his shoulders, his face is familiar, particularly to those who have been following events unfolding in zimbabwe over months. That out of his frustration at the corruption and injustice of the poverty in zimbabwe, he took to social media to express his disappointment at the lack of progress made in the country since independence. , the u. S. Am power , thesador to the u. N. Country becoming a basket case over the decades. And the movement with the video that he posted it went viral. He has suffered the consequences of calling the government out. Arrested and his house and office were searched. And the war and curiously claimed that he had stolen a button. Bad inthings were zimbabwe but i didnt know they were that bad. Something that was corrected on the part of the authorities. He has been charged with inciting public violence, later constitutionally elected government. And i suspect the news coming out in the last 48 hours is to be credited you will be shortly charged with being a cyber terrorist, which makes you a first at the Atlantic Council. We have posted many discussions but we haverorism never hosted a cyber terrorist. Thousands of wellwishers have gathered around the courthouse from when you were arrested and brought to trial. And you were subsequently released from the magistrate when they throughout the charges. We are very privileged to have you here. Not only because you have ignited the hope of zimbabweans, whose now voices can be individually heard, but also reunited those of us who follow this country from afar. Our own belief that perhaps somehow, some sort of peaceful transition is possible. For that we thank you. You join us here on the stage where our mandate here at the Atlantic Councils African Center has been to promote insperity, promote prosperity, stability and security in africa through greater geopolitical partnerships, with the peoples and the nations of africa, and certainly that comes with a peaceful transition in zambales. We have had the pleasure of hosting anyone from government ministers to members of parliament to members of the opposition here. It is now our privilege to welcome you as a representative not of a political movement, per se, but of the aspirations of a people that have been longing for some time for peaceful change and progress. Pastor evan, welcome to the Atlantic Council. The floor is yours. [applause] evan wow. If, three months ago, you had told me that i would have to speak on behalf of my country, or if you have told me three months ago that i had to run from home overnight, if you told me that my family would be accosted in the middle of the night at home, if you told me that my kids would be watched at school as my wife picked them up, i really would have asked that you had a medical checkup or some sort, because there was no way that i couldve ever planned what has happened. Let me first of all start by acknowledging the presence of my fellow citizens of the beautiful nation of zimbabwe. Thank you so much for standing for your nation. Thank you for raising your voices, from thousands of miles away, we heard the voices and we felt the passion and unity, and we are so excited that distance Means Nothing now to you and me. We have learned that we can be one and that we can stand for what we have always believed, and that you and i communicate to each other now in ways from people that are far removed from the reality we live in do not understand. We have had zimbabwe in our hearts for so long. It has felt like a crime to feel like zimbabwe can be better than the one we have. Sometimes, you and i have taken a peek into our hearts to look at the zimbabwe we long for, and we quickly hide it. When we had the chance to take it out, on our own, at night when we can back at home, or when we watch our kids sleeping, and you wish to yourself, its if only symbolic way be the nation it is supposed to be i believe we are standing at the cusp of an opportunity that allows us to see this beautiful nation become exactly what it is supposed to be. Let me also take this chance to thank the citizens of the world, that have allowed us to be able to congregate here today and tell our own story, through our own eyes, with our own voices. When i think about zimbabwe and i think about where we have come from, i think about the fact that my grandfather went to war against colonialism, and so did my father as a young man. And those two men did not see what they fought for. They gave birth to me and i have not seen what they fought for. I have come to a place where my children, my five year old and threeyearold, have to see the kind of zimbabwe that my forefathers believed in when they went to liberate our country. I made the decision i was not allowed to people that took my father streams to take mine. They have taken mine. I am 39 years old, but they cannot take my childrens dreams. You cannot do that. You have to forgive me, i am so passionate about zimbabwe. And sometimes, you have heard about zimbabwe, but you hear it through research. You hear it through statistics, you never get to see the tears. Sometimes, the tears are necessary. For you to understand. For us, it is not about votes. It is just about life. It is just about wanting to be free in our own country. It is about me wanting zimbabwe to be the best place for a zimbabwean to live. My friends say, you cry too much. Please do not cry when you go. [laughter] but this is happening in zimbabwe, we are crying. We cannot suppress the tears anymore. We have been taught for so long, to put up a bold face to always make a plan, but we cannot do that anymore. That is what caused me to stand up. That is what has caused me to be able to raise my voice and say, i dont know what may happen to me, but i cannot justify my silence anymore. The bible, which is a force that drives me, says in james, chapter one, verse 27, it says true religion, that god our father accepts, is to fight for the widows and the orphans. Zimbabwe has the unenviable record of a rising number of orphans, because moms and dads are dying before they can see their children grown up and enjoy the sweet spots of zimbabwe. They are dying of diseases that can be cured. They are dying because they have no access to good health. They are dying because they do not have decent incomes to look after their children. So, as a pastor, i cannot justify my silence anymore. When men and women sleep on the streets, and the irony of it is, it is not just the street. There is a street named after robert moog abbe, our president. Every night, hordes of vendors, old senior citizens, old women sleep in the streets together with their grandchildren, because their daughters and sons have traveled to lands far off to work for the family. So grandma must sleep with that child on the street, not because she does not have a home, but she was not able to make enough profit. She could not make . 25 or . 50 on her six tomatoes to be able to go home and come back the next day, so they sleep on Robert Mugabe street. That is the reality of what our nation is going through. On a road named after our own president. We are saying our government has failed. We are not afraid to raise our voices, because it is the truth. The citizens of zimbabwe are the missing link. We are the missing voice. We are the voice that has not been present in the timeline of building zimbabwe. We have realized that. Over the years we have called on foreign powers. We have called on the african union. We have called on all sorts of people to come in and help. While we are glad for the help, we realized that nobody loves you more than a zimbabwean. We have to be at the forefront of pushing our country in the direction we wanted to go. We cannot expect anyone to do it for us. So what began as an accident has today become a voice, and i am glad it is not about me. I am glad my fellow citizens realize it is not up to one person and it is not about him. He may have spoken up first but every one of us is responsible for where our country needs to go. So we begin with a simple video i posted one day as i sat in my office and so frustrated at the situation. I failed to raise school fees for my children and still have not been able to. The reason why i recorded that video is because i looked at the small flag that sits on the desk in my office. And i thought to myself, this flag makes a promise to me as a zimbabwean. But what this promise stands for in a state of my nation are so far apart, i felt like this flag was a fraud. I felt like the promise had been compromised. That everything that this flag stands for is something that is a promise that has been broken. But it also dawned on me at that moment of frustration, as i limited the fact that my country seem to have stood in the way of my dreams, it dawned on me, im the one responsible. I am the one responsible for helping zimbabwe to regain an honorable place amongst the nations of the world. I realize that me and my fellow citizens, wherever we went, we would hide when we saw the zimbabwe flag. That we would keep silent and hope no one noticed when people were talking about zimbabwe and what was going on. We were so ashamed. Now the idea is that you and i must stand. We will represent zimbabwe better than any politician, because we live the life every day. We are the month that case one goes on in zimbabwe every day. So today, i really come to join my fellow citizens to tell that story of zimbabwe, to tell how we are turning it around, and to invite anyone who wants to help us to come and do so on the condition that you are helping the citizen. That you hear our story, and you understand where we come from. But if the world was never to help us, if there was never going to be anyone that would come to our rescue, we want the world to know that we have discovered that we are the heroes that we have been waiting for. [applause] i will end my opening remarks this morning by letting you know that i am not a man of vast educational assumptions, but i do know when i am hungry. I know when i can see that my future is being destroyed. This one statement encapsulates how we stand and how we carry on today and it simply says this. It says, if we cannot cause the politicians to change, then we must inspire the citizens to be bold. That is our rallying cry. All we have is each other. We are discovering that our power is in our numbers. We are discovering that the tenacity we have to ride through tough Economic Times must now be used to face our own government who will not listen to us. All we have said is they must be held accountable. They have threatened us, they have arrested us. They have beaten us, as early as a couple of hours ago, my countrymen in zimbabwe, today demonstrating against the cash crisis and the bond notes that want to be introduced. Unarmed citizens were beaten. We want our government to know that they will beat us some more and they will jail us some more but we will only get stronger. The generation is now on their hands and we have had enough. We have drawn a line in the sand that says we will hold you accountable. If we voted for you, we will ask the tough questions. So i ask that even as we discuss this this morning, you do so with the thought that my brothers and sisters on the ground in zimbabwe face a very harsh reality. My very presence in the United States is courtesy of citizen number one in zimbabwe, who himself said people like mawarire have no place in zimbabwe and must leave. But that is my home. Absolutely nobody, including the president of the republic of zimbabwe, can ban or any other citizen from my home, for standing up what i believe. I close my remark for staying what i said in response to the president the first time he asked me to leave. I said, there are many things you can do, mr. President , but there are two things that you are powerless in this season to do. You cannot stop your son from setting and you cannot stop mine from rising. Thank you. [applause] peter thank you very much, pastor evan, for those remarks. Very inspirational remarks. It left us with a great deal to ponder. We will carry those sentiments out with us and apply them, not only in the case of zimbabwe, which we know is close to your heart, but many other nations in africa. Your comment about if we cannot convince the politicians, then we have to inspire the citizens to be bold. I think that applies in many places, so thank you for bringing that voice. Now to moderate and lead this conversation. By the way, i neglected one of my obligations earlier as acting chair to inform you, if you are tweeting out or engaging in social media or cyber terrorism about this event, the hashtag is aczim. We are delighted to facilitate this conversation. The newest member of the team here at the Atlantic Councils africa center, a person who worked hard over the last few weeks to pull this event together, along with the other members of the team. Chloe mcgrath is a south african fulbright grantee who recently joined as a visiting fellow, to develop our Southern Africa work and to reinforce it. We decided we needed to build up, because of what was going on in zimbabwe but also in other countries in Southern Africa, we needed to reinforce our work in that part of the continent. Chloe grew up in malawi, worked in south africa, tanzania, kenya, and zimbabwe in a variety of research and consulting positions. She has followed the events closely the events unfolding in zimbabwe, and recently, for those of us that are washington insiders, wrote a very powerful and good piece in Foreign Policy explaining the significance of the thisflag movement. When she was previously here with us during her graduate studies as an intern, already as an intern, she showed extraordinary promise. She wrote the case study on external support for nonviolent civil resistance movements in zimbabwe for the Atlantic Councils Strategic Force site future of authoritarianism project. So we are delighted to have her back. Delighted to turn the floor over to chloe to moderate this discussion with pastor evan. [applause] chloe thank you, everyone, for being with us today. Its a great privilege at the Atlantic Council to host evan mawarire. Thank you for sharing your heart with us. That is something that resonates with all of us massively. Thank you for being vulnerable with us. I want to start by asking, it seems that you became an activist in some ways, by mistake. If you dont mind me putting it that way. I know a lot of people have wondered, what is the significance about this moment . There have been many times where we thought there was a chance for change. We looked at the 2008 elections, the excitement around that, specifically when the parallel vote tabulations showed that the opposition had won the election. So what is it about this specific time in zimbabwes history that has given this flag so much traction . Evan from my perspective, a couple of things have taken place. Foremost, the growth of the demographic of millennials is something that zimbabwe didnt really watch out for. And these are a group of people that have such a passion for zimbabwe that we have not seen in a long time. Maybe we havent seen this passion since the war of liberation. So these people are fearless. And they connect easily. Couple that with an opportunity to express your discontent and you get something that is explosive. That,fferences in citizens are just regular people like myself and they have finally decided that i have nothing to lose. As i have lost everything as it is. And i am about to lose more. And i remember one of the flashpoints over the last few months is protesting the bond notes. A currency that the government wants to introduce in zimbabwe withhey say it will be 11 the u. S. Dollar but it is backed by nothing. And i think for the regular citizen, they are thinking to themselves, how stupid do you think we are . Excuse me if i am not politically correct. In those circles where you have to be careful about certain things. Thanks very much. Some things might happen that you are not comfortable with. But we got to the point where. Verybody said wait a minute how stupid do you think we are that you want to introduce a note that has no value and it is going to take everything that i have saved and this is the second time you have done it and you want me to just be quiet . Even when people have spoken to us as citizens, they say we are too emotional and we need to put then and we need to complaints across in a more formal manner and we said no, the time for formality is done. Its ok for the emotions to come out. Thats all we have left to show. They have taken the shirts off our backs. Think what is different right now is that there is a passionate group of people who understand the issues. Refusing to be hoodwinked by our government. Who are refusing to be sidetracked by what the real issues are. No matter what the propaganda is , we stick to the issues of corruption, injustice and poverty. That is the differentiating factor. A group of young people who have said we are done. We are not afraid anymore. It means, we are fed up and we are not afraid anymore. We are not afraid to stand up or to tell you the truth. We have a constitution that allows us to speak the men and women that secured freedom for us have felt for a long time that enough is enough. Our generation has provided that voice, they backed that up. There is a consensus of crosspolitical divide, racial divide. We have an unprecedented level of unity, and that is exciting. Could you outline for us how the movement went from this one video you posted on social media to the streets . I know a lot of people dismissed it as a social media fad, did not think it would have a lot of impact. This is the first time im. Dmitting this fad. D start as a it was, lets do something on social media that will be fun. But he laughed at us and called us names. At that point, it started to change. This is the thing with zimbabweans that we are aware of. Ornever we have complained try to hold them to account, they treat us as if we dont think. Your western founded and western funded. I started to think about the fact, what is so western founded about the fact that i cant send my kids to school, and pensioners can only access 20 a month of their own money . I went to a Radio Station for an interview. Every point the government attacked the citizens who are showing their love for their people, more and more realized, we cant be treated like this anymore. After that i started to talk about, if you love somebody away, posted on social media. Change ort to see hold the government to account, take your flag with you everywhere you go. At that point we realized, something is happening here. At one point, we called the governor of the reserve band. We are challenging you to a citizens debate, could to explain yourself. He responded and said, lets do it. We had the frankness discussion probably that has ever taken place with a public official in zimbabwe. To his face that they do not trust him or the government. There was a picture of robert. Cgarvey mugabe respect,with all due we dont trust the fact that if the man in the picture behind you told you to print money, that you wouldnt say no. Are beginningople there is nothing western funded or founded about it. I will not be surprised if it , did you see him sitting with his funders . Well hello funders. That kind of thing that caused it to grow, and people began to think more on the issues. ,ven if there is an agenda there are questions that need to be answered grade the president called me a fake pastor. I said granted that i may be a fake pastor. Granted that i may be a charlatan. But theres nothing fake about the fact that we have a cash crisis that no one can explain in our country. Billion that the president himself said we are missing from the coffers. After today our government can go into a crowd of protesters and arrest them and accuse them of terrorism, our government has failed to bring one person to account for a missing 15 billion. Thatou can arrest a guy has a church of 48 people, and charge him. But you cant find a person amongst your own attendance responsible for that kind of money. We begin to see that we have a case with the issues. Lets press a button of the issues. Feed into thet shutdowns and bob way protest . Zimbabwe protest . The zimbabwe event which was on 6 july 2016, it is something that will forever be etched in our memory. That is the date we began to grab back our power and show, we are the ones in control here. Happened a lot of people credit me with that shutdown, but it has nothing to do with me on my own. I was a contributing factor. This one a spontaneous convergence of many issues. Aheadvernment had gone and introduced a ban on the implication of basic commodities. A had people who had made business out of importing basic commodities into some bob way. Zimbabwe. We have lost more jobs in zimbabwe. People created their own jobs by importing these basic commodities. Wait a minute, you dont have jobs, you are protecting a local industry that doesnt exist. The friday before that shutdown there had been protests. These were the people who lived off that industry and they had a protests that went wild. That fueled the public , also thenion system went ahead and they were complaining about the police mishandling and how the police seems to be taking money from accusing them and of faults on their account and take money from them. The Civil Servants called a stay away from work. It was a perfect storm kind of moment. The main thing was that this was a point at which every i dontan realized, if stand with my fellow brothers and sisters, we will never have a voice that registers. It is my hope Going Forward that six june every single year from now on without governments permission in zimbabwe will always be a day that the citizens will stay at home, just to remind them who is in charge and who is in control. [applause] youve talked about why people are so passionate about the flag and how it rings people together. Brings people together. You have spoken about your. Ommitment to nonviolence why this is so important to the movement and why you chose to make it a main element . Evan i come from two points concerning the issue of nonviolence rat. Our government understands violence. This is a tool they have used for years. It over the years that anyone who has stood up against them, they have been violent. It became important for them to understand we cannot go into as we protest against the government, we cannot go into it trying to do what they do best. Thatpeople got hurt doing traded than it would destroy what we were trying to do. This is what they do best. Hey love that opportunity unarmed citizens that were not fighting were beaten, including senior citizens. For me it is more principal based. Violence begets violence. Result wegned will achieve in zimbabwe by the use of violence will have to be maintained by violence. Whatever we maintained by violence, we will have to. Aintain by violence i was talking yesterday, i had a chance to sit for an hour with the ambassador in atlanta. I said to him, tell me about the and howghts movement you use nonviolence. He said, there is more power in the silent protest than a noisy one. I found that profound because the zimbabwe government has shown that they dont know what to do with people who are not being violence. They did not know what to do with us when we stayed at home and said, we are not going to go work today. They went doortodoor to knock people out of their homes and ask them why didnt you go to work today . Team, the zimbabwe a more the death of democracy by putting on black armbands at a cricket game ned the death of democracy by putting on black armbands at a cricket game. Flag and sing the national anthem. Thousands of zimbabweans did it. Do you arrest people who are singing the national anthem, holding their flags . It was beautiful to see it. Loved seeing another campaign started in zimbabwe by a group of students. They took their graduation gowns and they went onto the street and were selling sweets and chocolate like vendors, and playing football in the middle of the city square to show that we are unemployed, our government has caused the very a signf knowledge to be of wasted talents. The pictures went around the world and spoke 1000 words. Those same students showed up at the cricket match, putting on their gowns. The Police Arrested them for putting on graduation gowns at a cricket match. These are the means by which a government can be pressured, and a government must be embarrassed. [applause] following the shutdown there was a massive clamp down on the movement, and that led to your arrest. Would you be able to tell us about the circumstances surrounding your arrest and the story by which you were released . Time i think about it, im surprised at what happened. When the police had called that they wanted to question me. There, aftered about an hour, two hours of they said, we are going to charge you with inciting public violence. Ive never been arrested in my entire life, ive never been charged for anything. I did not incite any violence at all. In all the videos i made at one point, i said to the zimbabweans, you carry your flag with you every day for 25 days. I will make a video for every one of those days, a three minute video encouraging you why you should carry your flag with you. I sent up those videos and in as aof those videos, matter of principle, i would say dont be violent, dont incite and dont insult anybody. Dont insult the president. Just carry your flag with you. Even when we did the shut down, i said, stayathome and do nothing. To be charged with that was a surprise. The expectation was that i would be out in 48 hours. I expected they would release me on bail. Before the day was over, they handcuffed me end said, we are going to search your house because we are looking for a baton stick and Police Helmet. I said, what would i be doing with a Police Helmet . They said, we believe you stole those things. Really they wanted to search my house and get my phone. They put these handcuffs on me, which was a surreal moment. My wifeo the house and came out. I said, please make sure my girls are not here. I dont want them to see me like this. They went through all of that, they found nothing, and then of course they locked me up. Next morning i was supposed to appear before the magistrate and we delayed going because they said there was a handful of people at the court who had their flags on them and they were concerned there would be some violence. We delayed and eventually got there, and there was a huge crowd that was there. When i sat in one of the cells they have at the Magistrate Court its naturally a filthy place. There is urine just done rapidly rampantly or randomly. I sat with the other prisoners that were there. I met some young men who told me some real genuine stories. Each of them knew who i was. They went around and begin to explain what they were in for. One young man said he had stolen a two liter bottle of juice, and another said he had smoked some guy of some sort, and other said he had stolen a supermarket trolley because he wanted to use it to help people carry their groceries from the supermarket to public transport and charge some money for it. There were about 22 of these young guys. They said, you dont look like the kind of guy who should be in here. Itswho look like you, usually fraud. How much money did you take . And when weough it were done, and telling them im just a citizen who is standing up for my family and our nation, the one young guy said, pastor, we dont do what we do because we want to. We are not route of the fact that we steal from people p stealf the fact that we from people. But we have nothing else to do in terms of looking after our families. He said, for me getting arrested is a blotch on my character. Getting arrested is a badge on your shoulder. It broke my heart. Me, and i only have ever read in the bible. He said to me, remember me when you get out. As much as i was incarcerated, i got a chance to see people who dont have thousands stand for them like thousands stood for me. We were delayed. Eventually i was brought before the magistrate late in the day. And up appearing at about 6 00 p. M. In front of the magistrate. My lawyer said to me, i have some bad news for you. For me, bad news meant i would spend another night. I said, what . He said, the charge has been changed. They are now charging you with subverting a constitutionally elected government. Years behindo 20 bars. It is as good as treason. My wife, i saw out of the corner of her eyes. My eye. I thought, what have i done . It was such a moment of power for the citizens of symbolic way. Zimbabwe. Every time the judge would take a recess, i would be asked to leave the courthouse. I found out i had 100 lawyers who came to represent me. Gosh, what is going on, when the magistrate asked who is representing this man, all of them produce their certificates. They would shift me out, he would go for a break. The second break was much longer than the other break. The courthouse broke into song. I thought there were people outside until one of the Prison Guards came to tell me and says, do you realize you have caused people to sing in the courthouse and the magistrate has shut this whole thing down and in short shis day adjourned thi day . Theyught to myself, i wish would stop singing, but it got louder. I was sitting on the concrete floor in this waiting cell, and i was crying and i thought to myself, lord, why . Immediately they began to sing a and nd it says, savedzimbabwe shall be and zimbabwe shall be saved evan you that point i cried even louder but i knew what was going on at that point i cried even louder but i knew what was going on. They were going to take their opportunity to annoy this government to the max. They did all sorts of things. Back,he magistrate came and we dont know where he was he an hour and a half, but came back and was left with no choice but to release me. On leaving the courthouse, one of the Prison Guards whispered in my ear and said, you have to take a different route out of h ere. You are going to be a rearrested the minute you walk out. Jail, which is kind of in a basement, this young man walked behind me and said, as we walk, take the first right. Dont go through the main gate to check out. He said, you make a right turn instead. There are some people waiting. I got to this gate and out of the corner of my eye to the lawyerssaw four of the inside. Ive never run so fast toward the lawyer like i did on that day. It was people i didnt know from a bar of soap, but they talked like friends, like comrades. Of seeing the crowds of people outside, of understanding what it takes, the people had been waiting for hours and made sandwiches for each other and went and bought candles for each other, and people had spent the day kneeling in front of the riot and singingaying and encouraging each other, it was outstanding. The highlight of that day for me was the fact that the citizens of zimbabwe showed that to be able to reclaim their country again. Thats when something turned. Something really special began to happen in zim. Chloe thats wonderful. Thank you for sharing the very intimate details of that time. This is a Great Movement that has the capacity to bring about real change. Naysayers have said, before theres been hope and its been dashed. Its going to fizzle out. How do you respond to that criticism . The one thing that people have to understand about this movement, and the many other movements its not just this flag. Expressionsny other of the Citizens Movements in zimbabwe. The one thing the citizens know is we are not waiting for a victory. E already have the change weve created space for citizens that was not previously there. Weve been able to cause our government to sell panic so panic that they have crafted laws to try to catch 1 or 2 people, extradite somebody for posting something on facebook. We know we already have a victory. Ideawe started out, the was we want to make sure as many forabweans have been ousted raising their voices that are now present, that that many more zimbabweans stand up. Number one, the unity of zimbabweans. We have achieved that. Two, the raising of voices by citizens. I want to say that we have already achieved our victory. If this thing died down today something has happened in zimbabwe that people have seen that they cant unsee. Weve seen it and we now know, and the government now knows that we know that they now know. Forward, getting everything we are striving for is a result of these victories we have already gotten. Depending what happens between 2018,d the elections in anything happening now has changed. The citizens are prepared to have a protest almost every day of the week. Its an amazing feat. Are going. Re we we said to the citizens, if it means we keep our government busy with a different protest in a different place every single day, so be it. The change has already happened and citizens are now the Game Changing factor in zimbabwe. Both the ruling party and opposition politicians know that , we are awake, we are ready to vote, but also to protect our vote. Chloe i know the Rural Teachers Association has begun a 10 day march to cover 200 kilometers from the rural areas to harare. They are being encouraged by the other groups on the ground that are working with you. What role do you think those groups are going to play in taking the Movement Forward . Evan these groups are playing amazing roles. The teacher is in zimbabwe are amongst the most uncelebrated heroes we have in our nation. [applause] i say so because every zimbabwean who has left simba to be anywheree in the world came through the hands of a teacher who is overworked and underpaid. And especially the rural teachers. Education happened in a rural area, where i went to school, where teachers had resources that were deplorable but they produced people who are operations today. Lets begin to stand up. Its a huge move. One of the questions a lot of people have been asking, is what do we make sure how do we make sure that people in the rural areas are aware of the fact that rural citizens are beginning to rise . When their students see them and they say, why are you going to do this, they say we are doing this because we havent been paid and we are not being treated right. Right inhings are not our country. They are an indicator that the message has penetrated the rural areas. Propaganda may be, these protests are only being done by people in urban areas. The government knows they have been caught. People in the rural areas understand. Are helping to permeate every aspect of the zimbabwean culture and life in society, and areas or people groups that are apathetic. Everyone is finding a way to get involved through something that speaks to them. That is what is important of the rural teachers. That is the movement. We have to have as many movements in zimbabwe as there are issues on the ground. I am waiting for a movement that that saves no more chips for the president. Leader toral for our travel and spend money going for a checkup, enough money to build a small clinic, and stock up that clinic with medicine for a whole month. So for me, those are the issues. We continue to say to the citizens, stick to the issues. Find a way to express your issues. It is important that everyone has a chance to put their hands on it. Just enclosing now, before we move to questions on the floor, when you mentioned you would be coming to the u. S. For this trip, i know there is a lot of mixed responses in zimbabwe. Some morning that the movement would not be able to continue without you, all sorts of Different Things that people had to say. What is your response to that . Do you think it continuing our absence and what is your plan while you are here . Alex it is continuing in my absence. And it must continue in my absence. Must stophe movement a depending on me. Because this is something that is owned by everyone, by every zimbabwean. The day they laughed and said that it was a fad is the day that people began to say this is mine. Im going to be a part of this. Definitely carrying on without me being physically on the ground. That. Neration understands junior locations are not things that concern us because our reality is not about the facts that who started it is here. We can exchange ideas. We can still make things happen. Excitement is that there are people who are even more passionate than i am who have taken up the cause and im happy that many of those people are even going to greater extent than me in terms of expressing their displeasure in what government has done or expressing their feeling about how they want to season bob way build Going Forward. So it is bigger than myself. It is bigger than me. We are looking in september, there is a group who will be hosting and i am part United Nations general assembly, we will have that hasst protest ever happened outside of zimbabwe. Tohope is we can gather thousand, 3000, 5000s of bob wins in new york city and protest. He needs to know that citizens everywhere stood up. [applause] now we will make it a broader conversation. Things beforeof we get started. There are lots of people here today and we have very limited time. Without we will have people bring around microphones. Make your you questions very specific and very sharp. Please do not take this opportunity to make a statement. Ask a question. We may have to cut you off and move on. So make it short and to the point so we can get as many questions in as possible. We will take questions three at a time to give evan respond. So we will start with the gentleman here and move to the left here. And then we will take a third question from the lady with the glasses on her head there. If you could just identify yourself and your affiliation before your start. Thank you. Teacher atoks, was a the High School Years ago. [applause] course it is very inspiring, the stock here and you talked a little bit about the guard helping you in the court. What sort of support have you received from the Security Services . This is their country, too and they may be interested in supporting this amusement this movement as well. Evan, a very good friend of mine. Evan good to see you. Good to see you, too. We evan from started in church and we went together in zimbabwe. I have been for a bit of time in the movement. My concern has been that i am arned about the issues reaching to it is people, especially in the church or not empowered. The issue that has been happening prior to this right. What is a you have been doing to make sure that you are working together with there is a lot of money treating the space for governance accountability. And what is it that citizens can do to reach to you . Ive also tried to reach out and youre probably overwhelmed. Working together and there is a lot that has happened in the ground. For me, the church has in not taking part as much as possible. Thank you. Chloe our final question, the lady with the glasses here. We will take another round after this. We will do them in batches of three. Alice my name is alice thomas and i work with Refugees International in the Climate Change program. It is really great to be hit today. I just came back from zimbabwe in june where we were looking at the impacts of the drought. Im wondering if you think the two years of drought in zimbabwe has contributed in any way to what is happening now . Chloe thank you. To sum those of for you, what is the support you have seen or havent seen from the secretory sector . What are you doing to work with Civil Society and increase Citizen Engagement . And what is the impact of the drought and how has that facilitated the events that have happened . Evan im going to answer as best as i can. I am not a politician and i am not an accomplished activist. For me, with like democratization are used our new words. Used to words like salvation. Those are my words. [laughter] get it wrong, feel free to start a hashtag about that as well. [laughter] talking about the Security Sector, thank you for the question. Being in my position has allowed me to see some of the people that work within the Security Sector facetoface and spent some time with them and to hear some of their thoughts about what is going on in our country. The thing that citizens will find surprising is that these people are hurting as well. One of the things i found was a gentleman who would inform me of certain things that were about to happen. Example, one of them told us that, if i went and spent the night at home the day that i was leaving the court, i would either be arrested or objected on the very night. So he basically just got that message straight through to some of our pastors who had come. And these are pastors who i didnt know that just mobilized and came to the courthouse. And one of them came up to the people to post a visit i have information, if you go home tonight you will be arrested or objected. I was a sign to me that there are people in there who are wanting to help the cause. The reality of the situation is that the crash the cash notis in zimbabwe is selective. If i cant get money from the bank, you cant get money from the bank. Hese people understand their children and their wives have to go to the same hospitals as our wives go. And theres no water at the hospital. 1800 for acosts [indiscernible] 57,000 of the house and the minister has a swimming put the house and none of them can swim anyway. [laughter] and these people see try to print a pitcher for you. These guys who are in the Security Services see it. They drive people and expensive cars. Theyve gone to their homes. And then he has to go back to a shack. They have to guard this man and this woman as they even expensive meal. One meal is more than his salary. He has to watch them do that. So it is a reality for them. He sees it happening. What our citizenry doesnt understand about her Security Forces is that the fear that governs them is probably greater than the one that has held us back. These people are ruled by fear. These people are brought in line by fear. It is a scary thing for someone who is in the police or is in intelligence or who is in the army to actually speak up. One of the things that we continue to openly encourage our brothers and sisters that are in the Security Sector is to help us. Help us with information, do what you can, leak information to us. Let us know what is going on, let us know what is about to happen. Because we do not have a central committee, because we do not have a bureau, you know, we do not have meetings where we gather to discuss strategy in secret. Our strategy is discussed right in the open. And we discuss our strategy on social media. We discuss our strategy on whatsapp. In their mind, they think it is a secret movement, a gathering somewhere, but we do it right there, so they know what we are about to do when we are about to do it, and the cool thing is everything we are about to do, they are powerless to stop it. It is going to happen. It is that simple. We are not trying to do anything that is illegal. So these people are there, and there is some form of reaching out to them. It is very simple. They watch our videos. When they want to videos for intelligence, we would hope that at some point, something has to be wait a minute, this man or this woman talking about what im going through, about what i am facing, so that reaching out is starting to happen. It is exciting to see them start to feedback information to us and let us know what is going on inside. And then the question i know that you have worked very hard in zimbabwe over the years and continue to do. I envy you for being able to go back home when you want so that you can continue the work. Civic society in zimbabwe is something citizens have been unaware of for a very long time. I want to say this from an honest perspective. In the mind of many zimbabweans, not all of us and by the way, we do not call it Civic Society. That is a name we now know. In zimbabwe, we saw you as ngos. No matter what we do, we just call it ngo. That is all we know. Many of us in our minds, our interpretation of ngos or csos is that you are there to bring relief. Distributing food in the rural areas, things like that. But we did not have an understanding of the work that you do to say, for example, support Citizens Movement or the work that you do. For example, many of us were fighting for zimbabwean human rights when we got arrested. We did not know about the different groups that are there. So i think this has now created an opportunity where Civic Society can then say to the citizens, guess what . What you guys are doing out of passion, we do as a profession. We have strategy we are moved by passion. Pastor mawarire you are moved by passion. I hope you will allow me to be honest. Part of the feeling has been that sometimes, Civic Society does it because it is a job, it is 8 00 to 5 00, in terms of speaking out. This is an opportunity where Civic Society can say hey, by the way, these things we have been studying, we have studies that can help in this area or that area. This is a great time for that marriage to take place, for citizenry, the Citizens Society has been trying so hard to reach and educate. This is a great time now for that to happen. So, for example, we are not funded as a Citizens Movement. I think it is a great idea for us not to be funded because it helps us to keep our eyes on the issues. We remain about the issues. It will be great to now get together with organizations that teach things like voter education, like the knowledge or understanding of the constitution or how the law works. When i was taught for the first time when you get arrested, what do you do . How do you behave . It was amazing to get a book that i could read real quick. It is a great opportunity for citizens to take advantage of the work that Civic Society has already done, but also a great advantage for Civic Society to look at the citizens and say, what have these people done that we have not done over the last couple of years, and take that and be able to use it in may training or things like that. That is my kind of take on it. I think i have one more the question about the impact of the drought. I think definitely the drought has had an effect in zimbabwe, but what has had a bigger and more profound effect during this time are the contribution of the drought as a flat point for citizens is governments unpreparedness for a drought. We have learned that you can be better prepared for it. Our government has had money given to it, but they have failed to be ready for times like these. They failed to be ready. That is more where the flashpoint is. That is more where our dissatisfaction is. You have not been ready when the drought has come through. So i think again that is where the passion is. Chloe great. Thank you so much. We will take another round or when you are called on, the microphone will come to you. We will start with the gentleman in the blue shirt and then moved to the very back, the gentleman there in the suit, and behind the camera man is a lady with a turtleneck. Once you have the microphone, please go ahead and introduce yourself. Todd great, thank you, i am todd moss with the center for global development. While we are talking about teachers, i think about my teacher at ranch house college. I am thankful for her. You called for citizens to stand up on specific issues. You mentioned foreign travel. I think the bond notes is a very Important Campaign to try to deny the government from stealing from zimbabwes future, but you are in washington, d. C. , just a few blocks away is the International Monetary fund and the global bank. To what extent are the zimbabwe citizens aware that there is a campaign largely pushed by certain european shareholders to clear zimbabwes arrears at the Imf World Bank and African Development world bank, to enable new lending to government, and less than a month ago, there was a report by the development they to its shareholders, which declared there were no longer any human rights problems in zimbabwe. Is this an issue . Arrears clearance is very wonky, and policy is not a street issue, but if that happens, floodgates will be open for hundreds of millions of dollars of new lending for the government. Is that something that the zimbabwe citizenry is motivated on . Chloe our next question is on the very back there, the gentleman in the suit. I want to say welcome, pastor mawarire, to the land of the free and the home of the brave. My question is when everything is said and done, the problem, we all know, is that there is a need for a change of government. Butan protest all we want, if that government remains in place, nothing will change in my opinion. Therefore, my question is we already less than 24 months into the next election, and we know that they will start campaigning and start scheming out to reach the next election. What are we doing now that we are united as zimbabweans to come up with a plan to make sure that the next elections in zimbabwe are free and fair and that they are credible . I drove last night. Im from philadelphia. I just came for this. Pastor mawarire oh, wow. [applause] when i see you, i do not see a politician i see zimbabwe. I see zimbabwes desmond tutu. What are you going to do . Are you going to try to reach out . Are you going to reach out to desmond tutu to reach out to you , to mentor you . Will you try to reach out to al sharpton, Jesse Jackson to help you on those issues . Thank you. [applause] chloe feel free to tackle those questions in any order you would like, and if you would like any more clarity on the imf question i will help, too. Pastor mawarire it is unreal to note that we are across from the imf. These are institutions that exist in some way, in some world, somewhere. I may go there and have a word with somebody. [laughter] i think the it is a shame that anybody would say that there are no records of Human Rights Violations in zimbabwe. [applause] the whole world can see it is a lie. The entire world can see it is a lie. We do not even have to go far. I can show you images on my phone from this morning, from today, from this morning where people have been beaten up by a police force. For us, the citizens, to be treated as if we are pawns on a chessboard is something we have decided listen, we are done with this. Something i said when i started off, i said i know that zimbabwe is reported upon here through research and reports and statistics, but it is time for zimbabwe to be reported upon by our peers, by the real stories , by the realrs stories of people being tortured, being murdered, someone was abducted, and nobody knows where he is, for holding of a placard in a public space which is his constitutional right. People have been beaten im sure you have seen the video that went around a couple of months ago of women that were placed under arrest because they were accused of demonstration, and while they were sitting defenseless, they were being beaten by police. One Police Officer actually took the baby from this woman so that she could be more comfortable as she got beaten. And a bank goes ahead to release a report that says we are free of Human Rights Violations . You know, africa needs to have a conversation with itself that is critical. And for me, this is where the critical conversation must happen in africa. Those liberated from our continent have to now get to a place where they can look each other in the eye and say, what you are doing to your people is not right. Until they do that, the leaders in our continent are letting our generation down. When i went into south africa, the secretary general was asked what he thought of this young man that had crossed into south africa, and he said that he is a dissident. I thought to myself, you know, this is a violation of a concept in africa that i know many people know. I am because of you, we are because of each other. Many of the cultures in zimbabwe and africa is that my fathers brother is my father. When i have a problem with my father, i go to my fathers brother, and i tell him what has happened, and he mediates on my behalf. He goes to my dad and said to him, your son is at my house, he is crying about what is going on. You cannot do that to your boy. In fact, you know what, i will keep him at my house until you come down and you give me a guarantee that he will be safe. But these guys who are liberators do not do that. They do not hold each other to account. And what happens is when reports are done, whatever the motivation is to tell a lie, they must be people that appear as liberators in africa, but they have to say this is not right or we cannot condone this anymore. We cannot stand aside and watch. I think for us, it will be trouble, and for the imf and the world banks to accept that kind of report as truth for us is it further reinforces the fact that we are truly on our own, and it further puts a dent not only into our hopes for a better zimbabwe but into the hopes of every other nation around the world. So our hope is that they may start to really see the story for what it is on the ground and treat this government the way it needs to be treated. They come to us and they say to us you are wanted for you are western funded for questioning them. And they are the first ones to come and ask for money. As an ordinary citizen, it confuses me. It confuses me. I hope i answered this question correctly, but my point is the imf and the world bank should no longer turn a blind eye. They lose credibility, and they lose our support as zimbabwe citizens. This government can no longer have people hide. It is not the age for people to allow more and more life to be lost. We are longing for people that have got a different view, that can stand up and say, this is unjust, it is not right, it wont be tolerated, and we are not going to be hoodwinked into towing the line. I hope i have answered that. [applause] i think the other one is what we doing about a wonderful question. Thank you so much. Good to see you. Chloe we are asking about what will make the next elections free and what hope is there of a change of government . Pastor mawarire the one thing we found is that the rigging machinery in zimbabwe is difficult for any citizen to go and physically dismantle. I mean, like youve said, we have had elections done over the years, we have had monitors come in over the years. That is one thing we have found. I know we have found. We have found each other, and the one thing we know is that if we mobilize enough people and enough zimbabweans to be prepared to vote in the upcoming election, then the change will be undeniable. One of the things i am pushing for zimbabweans as we go to the election is for us to have overwhelming participation in the election. Something that is undeniable because that is the only tool that we have the numbers. If we can overwhelm the system with sheer numbers. What this means is Going Forward, and i know that many of the movements have started, we should now start to talk about Voter Registration to make sure that everybody goes to register to vote. We should not stop talking about why it is important for you to protect the votes, why it is important for you to make sure your neighbor votes, but that is nothing without the opposition politics because i think my understanding our understanding as citizens, whatever change happens in a zimbabwe, it is a political vehicle. We are now looking at the opposition politics, and we wake up, we are united, we need you to take advantage of our unity. You be so that we no longer present this fragmented front. Can we just have one front that is united . Everybody will get behind it. It will be overwhelming. Mark my words. You are going to see something happen in zimbabwe that Robert Mugabe and his government never, ever thought they would see, an overwhelming turnout of people coming to silence and make their decision. The thing is, they are expecting a fight. It would be done so simply and so swiftly. Those two things for me, number one, encouraging our opposition to become number one united and the inspiring people that can capture the citizens, and i know that is happening. And number two, to just mobilize, mobilize, mobilize. People are asking me the question well, what next . What is next is that we speak some more. We do not have enough people. We have to have more and more and more people getting onto a movement, getting a chance to spread their voice because what we are doing is activating voters. We are activating agents of change. So we cannot stop, those that have been doing it longer have to do it even longer because we have people that are not yet on board. And when 2018 comes, by a miracle, Something Different happening, when 2018 comes, this will be the most exciting election that any zimbabwean has ever taken part in. [applause] chloe so we will finish up with that last question about whether you draw inspiration from desmond tutu and if you are going to reach out for some support. Pastor mawarire im so glad we talked about desmond tutu. That is a towering factor when it comes figure when it comes to democracy and justice, and i draw inspiration from him. I got to speak to the bishop at the church where desmond tutu was the bishop. I reaching to as many men and women who up and icons of freedom and justice around the world. I met a young man yesterday who gave me some amazing insight into zimbabwe, which he loves very much. He knows a lot about zimbabwe. He was involved in the negotiations in the 1970s 1977 to 1980 in terms of zimbabwe becoming what it is today. So definitely i am reaching out as much as i can to be able to learn lessons and draw inspiration. I think it is something that every zimbabwean has got to do, even reach back into our own liberation. There are so many men and women that over the years, some of the men and women some of them thought they were frauds like the men and women who lead our country today, but so many of these men and women that laid their lives down, the ideals they had these are inspirations for zimbabweans, and zimbabweans have got to understand again that as much as we have heroes and people we can look too, a lot of the heroes that we are looking for is locked up in you and me. It is me. Im the one it is amazing that the only people who have been able to bring the kind of change that we are looking for are the citizens of zimbabwe. So definitely we will do that. Chloe thank you so much. [applause] peter thank you, chloe, for monitoring the situation, and thank you, pastor evan. Pastor mawarire would you just allow me maam, please let me hear your question. Please forgive me she started a long time ago, and i must hear. Ok, i am a pastor just like you. My question is the zimbabwean constitution gives sweeping powers to force is not only to be confined to barracks but to actively be involved in Everything Else they do internally and externally. How are you going to work that out . Pastor mawarire thank you again for that question. You know, when citizen number one mentioned your name and said that people like me do not belong to zimbabwe, and then he gives a speech and says, people i can should be dealt with, you know safety will not be guaranteed. But something i learned the day i came out of court, which is a lesson that will stick with me a long time, and a lesson that im trying to teach our citizens when i can, that our security when we rise up against the government, when we rise up as individuals or within the group, our secure areas within the citizens. It is you and i that look after each other. And one of the reasons i was not redirected on that fateful june 13 evening is that i was released straight into a crowd of about 4000 people. You cannot take me from 4000 people. But this is the thing is that now we have to develop a counter that says an injustice to one is an injustice to all. We have a citizen in jail for something right now that she did not do. And the citizens keep showing up to her hearings, they keep going to stand for her, they keep making noise about her, so we are each others security. And if we ever let anyone stand up alone, we will never see the kind of change that we want to see. [cheers and applause] peter we thank all of you for joining us today, both those in the room and those joining us through our live webcast. Please continue to follow this particular conversation at acafricacenter. Please join me in thanking pastor evan for his passion, his commitment, his vision, and for inspiring all of us within ourselves, each and every one of us, that we are the heroes that we are looking for and that the world needs. Thank you very much. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer a Panel Discussion with authors and educators on race in america, examining the relationship between the police and the africanamerican relationship. Moderates the discussion. Other panelists include joy ann reid. Princeton center for African American studies areas cloud eddie claude junior, victoriaalveaux , and fpher Murray Michael higginbotham. Watch live tuesday at 7 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan 2. An overcast day here in washington. September 6 is the day that lawmakers return to our nations get back to legislative business. Right now and august, as they usually are in their districts, we will take a look where kelly enjoyeds today, really taking a look at the modern. Ailroad model railroaders Debbie Wasserman schultz says thank you to c