Transcripts For CSPAN AFL-CIO Hosts Discussion On Sports And Social Justice 20161113

Professional athletes have in advocating for racial and social justice. Speakers include Baltimore Ravens tight end Benjamin Watson and representatives from the nfls Player Association and aflcio. They discuss the National Anthem protest being led by nfl quarterback Colin Kaepernick and the work of labor unions. This is two hours. Good evening, everyone. Im Carmen Berkeley here at the national aflcio in washington, d. C. Welcome to the house of labor for those of you have never been here on behalf of our president , president richard trumka. Today, we will be talking about athletes, racial, and social justice. This intersection of workers and Racial Justice is work that the aflcio has been doing over five decades. Since recent happenings in our world, we started Digging Deeper into Racial Justice after the incident in missouri. For us, talking about workers with Racial Justice issues and how unions should protect people of color and the work that we do in the workplace. He workplace. You know, when i think about what is going on in our nation , there is so much conversation about Colin Kaepernick. We all know that that conversation about athletes taking a stand goes way far back. I dont know how many of you have actually been to the new africanamerican smithsonian. There is an actual section yeah, given applauded for that. They have a section with the most famous of athletes taking direct action with the olympics. But you think about the muhammad ali exhibit where he is literally talking crap. You talk about the desegregation in baseball, football, and basketball have done. The women, they have done recently with the wnba. Today is not the first time. Right now in history is not the first time that athletes have taken a stance. I would be remiss if i did not say that women have been taking about a stance in missouri, new jersey, alabama, massachusetts, and some of the other states where young people are inspired. They are taking that same knee that Colin Kaepernick is taking, and they are getting disciplined for this. We are excited to have these three incredible gentleman with us here at the house of labor. First i want to introduce my new friend, Benjamin Watson. He is a tight end from the Baltimore Ravens. Off the field, benjamin stays busy with his foundation, his growing family and the Nfl Players Association where he is on the executive committee. He is with the allpro dad campaign, and in 2005, benjamin published his first book about getting real with race and fears. We are honored to have a Baltimore Raven in the house of labor tonight. [applause] to my immediate right is my friend and labor activist joe briggs. He was first hired by the Nfl Players Association to manage their financial programs department, but because he is the bomb he became the top , counsel. He is the first individual to lead the Public Relations department. He is also a professor at georgetown and often speaks on subjects from politics to sports and everything in between. He was also a Scholarship Athlete at texas Christian University, earning three varsity letters, and i would also be remiss to say that we withlly hosted an event his group around the movie, concussion. It is great to have an activist but also someone that understands a why we need to be moving forward. Please give it up for joe briggs as well. And finally, the moderator i will give it over to is david books onthor of eight politics of sports, how politics has turned the world upside down. He is a frequent guest on espn and democracy now. He also hosts his own show, edge of sports. He cohosts the collision where sports and politics collide with nba player ethan thomas. Give it up for dave. Im going to hand it over to him. Dave zirin thank you, thank you, carmen. A big thanks to the aflcio for hosting this critical discussion, doing it in a way that we can be finished in time for the world series. Just so people know, i am rooting for the cubs, not because i have any great love for the cubs, but there is is just something about a racist mascot on television that makes my stomach turn. I am sure folks in d. C. Have no idea what that feels like, but it is very disturbing to see it on camera. So this is an important discussion to have a run this for us to have. It is particularly important to have it here at the aflcio so we can talk very particularly about what the role of unions are and what the role of unions can be in this struggle, and if there even is a role for unions at the intersection of sports, politics, and this important moment in the black lives matter against police violence. Sports of course has always been part of social justice struggle. We know this. You cannot talk about civil rights without Jackie Robinson. You cant talk about the 1960s without speaking about mohammed ali. I believe in the future, we will not be able to speak about lack black lives Matter Movement without speaking about Colin Kaepernick. There is a reason for that. The reason is he is effective in getting this message out, and he is effective because he is upsetting all the right people. Anytime your enemies include donald trump, ted cruz, supermodel kate upton, and rob lowe you know, the intellectual heavyweights you are doing something right. And of course, as carmen mentioned, this is all beyond Colin Kaepernick. It is remarkable. Tois from beaumont, texas washington, to volleyball teams, to football teams, to cheerleaders all taking a knee. It is clear that this has resonated in a profound profound , way. Leslie gibbs from think progress has set up an interactive graphic on their website that shows every time and other anthem protest is taking place. It is remarkable to see how it has spread. People talk about it being divided, red state, blue state, north, south. People feel like there is a gap between what we are told the flag represents and the actuality of peoples experiences, and they are expressing that within the public sphere of sports. Unionss talk about the and social justice unionism in , this struggle. As i start, i am so honored to be here with these folks. My first question is something that is probably not an argument in this room, but the mere fact that there is a camera here is something we need to address. Be that an nfl player could described as a worker and in do they need unions . I am sure when people think of a worker, the last thing they think of is a wellpaid athlete. Whoever wants to start we will go with you joe, then go to benjamin. When people say you work for the nfl union, is that a contradiction . Joe briggs first of all, thank you for having me. The first thing i usually say is these guys go to work like everybody else. They clock in. They have to be there on time, they have to be there for a certain period of time, and they have to perform and be measured by their manager. The manager may look different by having on sweats and a polo shirt, but the same things matter to them that matter to everyone else who has to go to work. Now it is Game Changing in some ways. But under his leadership, we have been able to get the people of this country to understand that a locker room is a work place, that the football field is a workplace, and safety is something that we need to take very seriously. We have tried to do that in every conversation we have had with the measuring counsel on the other side. The other thing i would say is , why yes, i do work for the Players Association, but i am also a player myself and a professor. It makes sense for me to work in the Players Association because i believe in workers rights. Dave zirin what about you, benjamin . How do you answer that question. . Benjamin watson thank you for having me. After i get upset, angry, and i look at them in a way where my wife says, stop looking at them like that, then i try to explain. We are workers who have expectations to meet. One of the first things i learned, maybe you have heard it before, you have heard players say that the nfl is a business. You hear that all the time. This is a business. And when you transfer into the nfl,om college into the you learn what being a business really means. You get paid, you get compensation, but there are expectations you must meet. When you are a young player and you are just happy to be there there is an education that comes , to understand the business side of football. One thing we always say in the nfl pa is understanding the business of football and all that that entails. Part of that is we are all part of the union. League Players Association, that includes everything from Bargaining Agreement how we interact with , management, even, the latest thing is how long we are going to be on the field, what kind of grievances we can file. All of those things are covered under the agreement, so it is important for our membership to understand that. Sometimes it is hard to explain that to someone who only sees days7 sundays out of 365 of a year and looks up to something that you do and say i , would love to play football. Dont get me wrong, i love playing football and being part of the game, but as a father and a husband, i understand that, when daddy leaves home, daddy is going to work. Daddy is going to provide for his family. The same way that you are. The same way as someone that drives a truck or is president of the United States, they are going to provide for their family and there are risks , involved. I tore my achilles. That is a risk and a hazard of going to work. It is important to have a union. Carmen, thoughts yourself. I know you have done work with , and the players are certainly workers. Carmen berkley if you think about it, actors are part of unions. You have other folks that people consider a higher salary like i was are unionized pilots are unionized. Engineers who worked at boeing and they are unionized. , as the brother said, it is about work. Coming from a people of color perspective, there are a lot of black folks that work in the nfl, from watching tv. Historically, we are generally paid less for no matter how much work we do. At least to me, i feel like from an equity perspective, unions make sure that, no matter what the color of your skin is, no depending on the profession you are playing no matter what , gender you have, there should be wage equity and we need to make sure that our brothers have health and safety. If you are working for a living and somebody is making money off of you, you should have a should be able to have a collective Bargaining Agreement. Dave zirin Brian Mitchell was a proud union man, and he always said, it is not even that we are labor. We are labor times two. Think of a cook. We are both the cook and the steak. We are basically cooking ourselves. Every single week, and when i see benjamin in the boot, i hear what ryan is saying. Maybe we can start with benjamin and work down to carmen. Your First Impression, to start the Colin Kaepernick discussion, what was your First Impression when you heard about Colin Kaepernick taking a knee, when you heard about his explanation about why he was doing it . Benjamin watson my First Impression was i was taken , aback. I was taken aback. Because as an american, our default position is to stand for the National Anthem. That is what we all want to do. We all know that there is iniquities. We all understand. I wrote a book about it, i have written about seeing what was happening in the streets, feeling the anger and the frustration about the things that happened in the past keep on happening, having a small sliver of hope sometimes only to be dashed again when i see another video of Something Like that. I heard what he said at first, i wanted to know why he did it. My biggest thing was, why did you do it go to art if you just did it because you want to disrespect the flag or someone, veterans that is one , thing. He said that he did it because he wanted america to be better. He did it because he was not disrespecting, you know, veterans. He was not disrespecting anyone who served the country. He did it because he wanted the country to be better. That is where i identified. If i was playing right now, i would not be taking a knee. It was not my idea. But i stand for everything he is doing. I am behind him 100 , and i support his right to do so. The question now, and as you see different guys taking a knee, some guys standing, i identify 100 where do we go from here . ,where do we transfer into advocacy . How do we need to educate ourselves . What are the conversations that we need to have . In baltimore yesterday we had a , town hall with all of the players. We talked about colin, policing neighborhoods. Guys give their experiences which some of us never heard before. We do know that people had had that experience with a police officer. You were able to hear from white players, black players. Some of us disagree, some of us agree. But that is moving to the next step of opening the conversation. I love what he did. He opened his avenue. He opened this conversation. If we are courageous enough and we are able to be honest with out namecalling we can , move forward. For athletes, i think that we play a vital part in moving this thing forward and having this conversation and eventually making permanent changes. Dave zirin same question for you, joe. I love the way benjamin spoke about it, as you were thinking evolved on it. Benjamin watson joe briggs my first thought was this is going to be an , interesting week at work. [laughter] joe briggs but then after i got past that thought, my thoughts got to be a little more serious. As benjamin said, knowing that i waited until spoke, colin spoke. Knowing that that would be a guide to what we would do and the response to Colin Kaepernick, how would would protect how it would protect Colin Kaepernick, a member of the Players Association, and how to protect his workers rights. After those thoughts, i started thinking back to Martin Lee Anderson. Most of the people in the room probably dont remember Martin Lee Anderson. I was in law school in 2006, and i remember Martin Lee Anderson because at the time i was still , affiliated with a law firm that i did a summer clerkship with. In summer 2004, i parked with clerk with parks and crown a , Small Law Firm in tallahassee, florida. A small case came across our desk in that law firm in 2006 when i was still working for the firm while at law school, with Martin Lee Anderson. My thoughts went back to him. The reason most of you dont know Martin Lee Anderson is because he wasnt Trayvon Martin. He also wasnt, he also wasnt michael brown. He also wasnt one of the people that came to the same fate as Martin Lee Anderson had after social media. But it was a case that was very similar on the facts where a young man who was at boot camp was strangled, killed while in that boot camp, at the hands of Law Enforcement. And i started to think back at to all the other young men Martin Lee Anderson and Colin Kaepernick that decided to sit that i had not only witnessed but paid attention to because of my start in my legal profession, being at that place. That is what i thought about it. Now how do i think about it and feel about the players as they continue to express themselves . I am proud of them even if in some instances i havent agreed with some of the things that have been said. And i mean that by the players who said they dont understand Colin Kaepernick and the players who have stood with Colin Kaepernick. To me that shows they all believe they have agency, which they do. That is one of the things we should want out of our athletes, because they are citizens of the United States of america and have rights just like everyone else. My hope is, as colin continues to express himself in the way he has chosen to and that other players find their voice, they will continue to educate themselves and find the support in the community as well inside the locker room and outside the locker room, so they can continue to grow as mature adults and be citizens of these United States. Dave zirin you know Carmen Berkley you know, Alicia Gardner who started black lives matter has this famous quote. It says, people love everything about black culture except black people. And often times, that is the reality that we have to face. People want to make money off us, they want to wear their hair like us. To actually face all of the things you deal with as black people, showing up for work that is harder for people. , for me, i felt a huge sense of pride. And i felt a sense of pride because it is always more powerful when athletes or celebrities stand in line with the issues that we care about. He forced a conversation that i feel like many people should have an needed to have but werent having. It force people im sure were 49ers fans to think if it is something they care about. This is something folks may not know about, but alecia garner, the cofounder of black lives matter, is from oakland, the same area where the 49ers are. Many people still had not had that conversation. The one thing we try to do in our department is trying to empower workers of color and women and lgbt workers to say, when something aint right, you need to stand up. Even if that means you are going to be unpopular, even if that means you are going to face adversity at work, luckily you do have a collective Bargaining Agreement. Luckily you are part of a union. ,your job is actually protected. For me, i felt i had a huge sense of pride when i saw Colin Kaepernick do that. He is not being respectable. Right now, people might look down at him, but again, a couple of days later i went over to the , African American smithsonian where there is an entire exhibit of mohammed ali dissenting against the United States. Now when he passed away, all i could think about is you all love him today but when he was , at the height of his activism, you did not love him. So you dont have to love black people, but respect that if you are making money off of us, we should be able to express our own truth. That is what i feel like Colin Kaepernick did. [applause] now when colin , cap heard it did take that need Colin Kaepernick did take that need, knee, you heard many of my fellow journalists dig up the oldest four words in the journalism handbook, four words used to silence political athletes. Those words are shut up and , play. We will start with you, benjamin. How do you respond to that shut up and play argument . Benjamin that is the number one , i think, argument that people have with athletes. Not just the athletes, i would say anyone who has been in the public sphere, whether an actor like you mentioned before or some sort of public figure. We want you to do what we turn the tv on to see you do and nothing else without realizing that like i said before, we are fathers, we are husbands, we are friends, we are citizens we have , the same rights as anybody else has, and more importantly, we have some of the same emotions and feelings that everyone else has. We all turn our tv on too and watch the news. Making us one dimensional is probably i would say the biggest insult as an athlete that i have felt over the course of my career, when people only want to know what you did on the field and after that, they dont want , to know anything else. It is an insult. It is unfair because in our locker rooms whether they be football basketball, whatever it , is, you have some of the brightest minds. These guys, some of the smartest guys play football, believe it or not, and they are able to express themselves and move the needle for whatever social change is. That is always the first , question you asked about, when you talked about being an athlete, that is probably one of the biggest misconceptions i think that i face and one of the hardest things to overturn. People want to hold their idols here, and they dont like wind the people they put on the platform disagrees with them. Faith ort be about anything else. That is something that really irks me. Dave zirin people also realize have to realize how racist it is, shut up and play. I asked john carlos, 1968 olympian, about shut up and play, and he just looked at me like i slapped him, and he said, why dont you say, shut up and dance . You would not hear people say shut up and dance, because that would be untoward, but somehow shut up and play is still allowed. Benjamin watson i would agree with you. I would say probably for the black athlete, it probably carries a little more weight, and it harkens back to a time when all we were supposed to do was performed and that was it. Not be seen and not heard. It is immediately an attack on the intellect. That is the biggest bang. We have got guys, myself we have , degrees, all those things. To say that to an athlete, especially a black athlete, it is more of an insult then to anybody else. I feel it when it is said to me. Dave zirin joe same question to , you about the shut up and play, and your response when you hear it. Not if you hear it. Because i still kind of feel like an athlete at least in my mind. [laughter] joe briggs you know, i go back to benjamins first answer when he said after he gets done being upset he finally finds his words , and is able to express himself. Telling me to shut up and play is you essentially taking away my agency. I have done nothing in my life 87 pt come to play football i am sorry almost 90 of the , men in the National Football league have gone through three years of college education. Are we serious when we say that these men cant express themselves about a social issue that they are intimately aware of because outside of their uniform, they look like a lot of these other people who have had a hard time dealing with these issues that have almost become social pariahs . I dont understand what you mean when you say shut up and play. I guess i should understand what you mean when you say shut up and play, because while we dont talk about it in the news this year, im sure next year we will take a lot of time talking about Jackie Robinson and the 70th anniversary of him integrating baseball. This year, being the 70th anniversary of reintegrating football, no one is talking about it. In a sense they are telling kitty washington that it was ok that they shut up and they played. I understand that is a way we have dealt with athletes for quite some time, but i dont think that is something we should continue to do. And my response to that generally is why would you say , that to these men when you dont know who these men are . You dont know that there is a young man more than likely, a young man who was also on the Baltimore Ravens who is getting a phd in mathematics. Why would you want him to shut up and play when he could solve some problem that could help everyone in the world better . Be better . Why would you want him to shut up and play with in fact there are players like Benjamin Watson himself who might write a book to help someone become a better leader not only in his community but for us all in this country. Why would you want them to shut up and play . You want instead to make sure that his mind is prepared for the moment it gets to express itself. In that way you will give him , agency, but perhaps you save us all. Dave zirin it is the 70th anniversary next year of Jackie Robinson entering baseball, but this year is the 70th anniversary of Jackie Robinson breaking the color line in the Minor Leagues and getting run out of sanford, florida on a rail because the town was so deeply racist and violent toward his family. He had to go to daytona beach, and sanford, florida is where Trayvon Martin was killed, and where donald trump held a rally today where people white people held up signs that said blacks for trump. That is real. If we dont confront racism directly, then the path will never be paved. Carmen, even though you probably dont hear shut up and play that much, i do want your response. Carmen berkley yes i do, sometimes. I am so happy you did, dave. I was going to say, it is a form of racial supremacy to say shut up and play. I think outside of it being coded racism all workers deal , with this dynamic, which is why the unions are so important. It might not be shut up and play to me. It might be shut up and do your job. Shut up and help this patient. Shut up and pick up this trash. People do not necessarily want us to come to work as ourselves. People dont want me to come to work as a black woman from pittsburgh. They want me to do my job and go home except for when i am , working late hours and coming in early and doing all these extra things that make doing this work important. So to me one of the reasons i , feel like labor really has to take a stand on this is we are protected at work so we dont have to shut up and play. When we are fighting for our collective Bargaining Agreement, and we are saying, i want more wages, i want more benefits, i want more childcare that is the , moment we dont have to shut up. If we are trying to embrace what Racial Justice looks like an dismantle White Supremacy we , would say stand up and activate as opposed to shut up and play. [applause] dave zirin stand up and activate. A real quick question for joe and ben. People might know that the nfl is sometimes called the nofun the. It is no fun league. It is a league that will fine players incredible amounts of money for dancing in the end zone or wearing the wrong shoelaces. And yet, it is fascinating to see that on this issue, no fines for players for taking a knee. Keep in mind this is a very authoritarian league structure, a very, i would argue, antiunion structure at the top of the nfl, and that is what the nflpa has to fight in a day in and day out basis. And yet, they have left players alone who have written things like my kids lives matter across their uniforms when they take the field. They have left that alone. They are all up on players with a microscope every second, except on this issue there taken they have taken a step back. It is curious to me as to why. Conjectures a bit of , but i would love to hear from joe and ben why you think the nfl may have chosen to take a more handsoff view. Benjamin watson i would say it is probably more likely because there is no rule for a player to not standing for the National Anthem. If there had been a role in the rulebook, i would have said maybe there would be action on that rule. It is my hope that there is also some people at 345 park avenue that understand how important this issue is, and they have counseled the people who make those decisions that it is probably not in their best interests to take a position that is contrary to the people expressing themselves in this way. Dave zirin and benjamin, any thoughts about this . Benjamin watson i would just say that there is no rule that says we have to stand up. There is nothing they can fine us for. If they could, they would. But they understand the bigger picture, so to speak. And they understand how sensitive this issue is for everybody, not just in the nfl, but everybody that is watching. They dont want to be in a position where they are getting it from all ends for abusing a players rights, especially when it comes to their First Amendment rights, when it comes to what is covered under the cba. They dont want to be in a place where they are finding someone or even firing finig someone or even firing someone, and it can be proven that the reason the person was fired is because they took a knee during the National Anthem. Whatever your opinion is of that person and what he is doing we , cant be in a world where they are doing that to the players, or else they have to hear from people like this and from our unions. We have had these conversations. I mean one of the things that we , have talked about is, what happens if we can prove that somebody got cut because they took a knee . Because we are already looking to see what are our steps going to be that happens . Is that happens . There are some things that have happened that we have to think about that. They honestly dont know what to do with it right now, because on the one hand, they are getting people who are throwing insults, threatening to not watch games. So now the big thing is, well, the ratings are down, is it because of this . There are bunch of other factors like, i dont know, our president ial election has been going on as well. Now they are getting that in on what to do. Dave zirin i dont know if you had any, ok. One thing, and i think carmen, this is something i want you to back cleanup on, that i will start with benjamin on this as a player. The other stereotype that you hear often, and i have heard this from coaches and i have really only heard this from management in my sports writing life, but the idea that a political player will somehow divide the locker room and keep the team from winning. In fact one of the players , kneeling with cap or nick with kaepernick did it not only because of the idea of fighting Police Brutality as much, but as much as he was so offended that the espn commentator said that he had sources that colin was dividing the locker room. And eli said heck with that, im taking a knee with colin. So, what do you have to say for people who say, if too many players are taking a knee, it is going to take players minds off of what matters, winning. Joe briggs Benjamin Watson even when he first did it, im never doing an interview, and it was that very question. In any organization, you want unity so that you can achieve a common goal. Common sense would be i dont , want any divisions whether ideology, politics, faith, because i want my guys best prepared to win. But when you look at it, this is all about relationships. We live in a world as people, we , have relationships. And it is fundamentally wrong to assume that guys cant differ, and because of their relationships and because they respect each other, still Work Together toward a common goal. I heard somebody say, if one of my players did that, they would be cut. I think it was it was who is the old coach from indiana . Bobby knight. Dave zirin bobby knight. Benjamin watson bobby knight said he would cut them. I said hold on, that is , interesting because what did chip kelly do . I assume he went to his players, who he should have a relationship with because you are going through a whole offseason together, you know each other, and said, colin, why are you kneeling . I may not agree with you, and guys in the locker room do not agree with you but we have good , enough relationships in the locker rooms that you have 53 guys on the roster and all of them arent going to agree on everything, but because of our relationships, we can disagree and still work toward a common goal. So as a coach my hope is that he , would go to the player and talk to him about why he is doing what he is doing. That is what we should expect not only from our coaches and sports teams, but that is what we should expect in our workplace at times that we dont believe what someone else believes. We can still have common respect for humanity and move forward toward a common goal. We can respect each other. That is what is not happening if the locker room is like social media, the way they talk about colin right now, it wouldnt work. Colin would have to go. Luckily, our locker rooms arent like what we are seeing everybody saying about them, especially what they have been saying about mr. Kaepernick. Dave zirin social media is the white hood of the 21st century. You can hate with anonymity. Joe, the question for you as well. Joe briggs so the unity or disunity in the locker room is something that is amazing to me when i hear someone outside of the locker room talk about it. Because anyone who is ever played organized sports or played football at a very high level know how many hours you spend sweating together and burning off calories together , i guess one way you can put it. Getting to know each other, doing drills and repeating the exercises in practice day after day. You are sweating in the locker room. You are sweating in the weight room. You are groaning together bleeding together literally , bleeding on the field together to make a better product not only for your fans but for your team, with one common goal in mind. And there are a bunch of things that come up during the course of conversations that could potentially divide a locker room, but most of them are overcome by the unity you have with that common goal. And it is always interesting to me that the question is not asked in a different way. Why isnt it asked if the fear that some of the players have in the locker room that their life may be ended by some action of a person that is acting incorrectly is dividing the locker room that other people arent thinking about it . Why dont people ask the question that way . Because they dont really care about it. But in the locker room, if i sit next to benjamin, and benjamin is sitting next to me, we have conversations about everything that is going on with us. In many instances, like benjamin said today, there is some things that we dont share with one another, but there are other common things that happened in the course of our lives that we dont have to talk about. It is just a common shared experience. And i think those things carry over to these moments like the Colin Kaepernick, whether he decided to kneel or not. They know who Colin Kaepernick is in that locker room. Im sure if anyone has questions about it, they can go to colin and talk to him about it. Because they have relationships like benjamin mentioned. That is one of the most important things my College Coach mentioned to me when i signed my letter of intent. I wasnt signing a letter of intent, i was signing up to be part of a family, a fraternity of men that i would spend the next four or five years of my life with, learning about them as they learned about me, and we would Grow Together as a family. In many nfl locker rooms, it is the same thing. So i dont believe the disunity that everyone outside of the locker room is talking about is going to be something we will see. I think instead we will see guys walking together arm in arm to play their Football Games, and their families playing together after the games while they are getting ready for the next season. Dave zirin carmen i am sure you , hear an echo of this in terms of labor organizing. Carmen berkley oh yeah. It is interesting that you brought up the viewership being down. For me, i was not watching the news in a while, but i was like let me call the 9ers and see , what they are doing. 49ers to see what they are doing. There is a whole generation of people who will be beholden to the 49ers because they actually took a stance, because these players are actually being seen as role models. I will tell you what is not dividing people is the amount of money that is actually probably being made off of kaepernicks jersey. My coworker was just out in california trying to find the jersey and couldnt find it because it was sold out. To me, on the one hand, you cannot reprimand the players for the things that they care about, for showing up at work as a black person or as a person of color, and on the other hand be ok making money off of their blood. In the workforce, we work with so i think for us people we dont agree with all the time. Wellk with republicans, maybe not here. , [laughter] Carmen Berkley i work with republicans, i work with folks who have a different stance. At the end of the day, we are all working toward a common goal. And if our political stances are the things that keep us from being able to get our work done, then none of us would be able to get our work done. For me, that is not actually a viable excuse for why we should not be able to dissent about the things that we believe in. Dave zirin this next round of questions, i will start with you, carmen. You are getting a drink of water , sorry. We will go right back to you. We set the table, and now we really need to eat. We are here tonight to speak about the role that unions can play and the role that sports unions can play in advancing this discussion for equity and Racial Justice. So for people who dont know, first maybe you can give us a little education, carmen. How are unions, right now, in the present tense, involved in the black lives Matter Movement . Or i think some might ask that question differently, are unions involved in the black lives Matter Movement . Carmen berkley the stance of the aflcio is certainly that black lives matter. Not only that black lives matter, but we stand for issues pertaining to Racial Justice. We believe that people cannot just show up to work as workers, people show up with all of their identities. And so we have been striving to , do our work through our racial and gender justice lens, because we understand that yeah, when i show up to work, i am carmen but when i decide to shave my head and put a slit in the side, that is not common someone might , make a suggestion about that. It is not just something that might happen to me, that is something that could happen to many of us. Over the past year, we have embarked on a process of having a commission on racial and Economic Justice where we have gone all around the country and we have talked to Union Members from every single sector about how race intersects with your work. And finally we have been doing , an incredible amount of work on criminal Justice Reform. We say that because in the United States, we have incarcerated over 2. 4 Million People. Over 7 Million People are currently somehow connected back to the criminal Justice System. As that relates to voting, if you think about states like florida, where only one in four black men are actually able to vote because they have had their Voting Rights taken away from them because they have committed a felony, for us in the Labor Movement, that is a huge problem. We have got, you know, a significant amount of people who cannot participate in democracy that would be organizing around worker issues. However, our political system has not only punished them the first time by incarcerating them, but the second, third, and fourth time by not letting them work, by not letting them vote, by not letting them have Public Housing or really even move ahead in life. So here at the aflcio, we dont just see it from a monolithic perspective. We are trying to help people live a better life. What does that look like . That looks like being able to show up at work as your full self and also being able to receive the benefits and wages that you deserve no matter your gender, sexual identity, or your your gender, your sexual identity, or your race. Dave zirin i also heard people should google this if they are not aware of it, but the seattle teachers this past week, they all wore black lives matter tshirts to school. There were celebrations and rallies of that at schools across the city of seattle, a city by the way that is only 8 africanamerican. So it was taken on by a majority nonafricanamerican actors, asserting the idea that black lives matter. It started as an act of solidarity when one school, in Elementary School of all things wanted to do a racial pride , celebration, and they got bomb threats. They got white supremacist threats and they got vandalism. What is so important is that teachers wanted to do something to help these kids who were traumatized by that experience, so where did they go . They went to the union. They are like, this is going to be our you our vehicle to organize a response. It has to happen at that Grassroots Level a lot of times. A lot of people see that the union is that space of where to go to do it. I would want to take that to joe to bring the question to you. How can you see the nfl i assume right now that there are people in the nfl who are trying to figure out a way to assert themselves politically. There are inspired by what kaepernick is doing. Maybe they dont want to take a knee. They want to take a stand in some way, shape, or form. Seattle seahawks player Michael Bennet was at one of the seattle rallies afterwards to celebrate. He had a great line. He said, look, i only going to am be an nfl player a couple more years, but i will be a black man my whole life. What is the union putting forward for players as a way to help with this . Joe briggs so obviously benjamin is Vice President of , the nflpa, and i am a guy that works there, but i know that we have organized a number of different ways for players to express themselves. Our job is to provide them with the correct information on how they can express themselves through their vote, how they can express themselves through their advocacy how they can express , themselves even if they want to be connected to some publication or website so that they can write an article or express themselves using their own words or using video or some other media. The specific things that i will say that we have done we have had a unique partnership with rock the vote to get information out to our locker rooms about how players who may be away from their home state can get absentee ballots if they need to to express themselves in that way. We are looking at other ways to partner with the aflcio with some of the get out the vote activism and campaigning that they are doing around this topic. In addition to that, specifically around black lives matter and Police Brutality, in a number of locker rooms around the United States of america, it hasnt really been publicized, but there are town Hall Meetings where the players on those teams have decided to go to the Police Departments in those cities and have closed door town Hall Meetings conversations with , them, about how they can Work Together to improve the relationships in those communities. It has been really positive in the cities that it has happened. For the first time, these guys have the opportunity to speak their mind to the Law Enforcement folks on the other side of the table in an environment where they would understand where they were coming from and what they were feeling. Because the tensions have been growing on both sides of the equation. I mean, look we get it. , every time a Football Player shows up in a city, they get a Police Escort to the stadium, and there is a relationship whether they want it or not, and then they turn to the news and see a different side of the Police Enforcement they had not seen as a part of that escort to the stadium that they want to take pictures with them. They also know that if benjamin is not in baltimore but in some other major city in the United States of america the police , officers there may not recognize that he is a tight end in the National Football league. They have asked how we can bridge some of those gaps. It is not just in the town hall spaces, the voting spaces, it is also advocacy on capitol hill. In the next month, we plan to have no less than 15 players who have asked personally to come to washington, d. C. On their off days so that they can meet with members of congress and their representatives and with their state senators. We have been diligently organizing some of those interactions so those players can on their own dime fly to washington, d. C. And talk to their elected officials about what they can do to get this right. Dave zirin wow that is , fascinating. I didnt expect an answer with that much depth and width. That was great, thank you. Joe briggs thats what we do. As a player, i am like, man. Dave zirin it is my job to kind of know that. I was like, wow, there is a lot happening i dont know about. So benjamin, same question to you. I think this is going to be the last comment before we throw it open to everybody here, because we really want to hear from all of you. Benjamin the last word is to , you. How do you what do you think is the best way you mentioned the town hall with the Baltimore Ravens. Boy that sounded fascinating. , what role do you see the Union Playing on a grassroots, team by team level as a way to advance this discussion of black lives matter and Police Accountability . Benjamin watson i think it all goes back to the assumption that because we have made it, we dont know where we came from or we cant advocate for those who are less fortunate. It is the assumption that because a quarterback is making 11 million a year or because the tight end is making whatever he is making you cant care , about someone being pulled over or you cant care about someone not being able to vote. Or you dont care about sex trafficking. You name it. There are so many injustices going on that is not just black lives there are injustices going on throughout the world. Why should we, if we are not affected by something, why cant we care and advocate for someone somebody that is being affected . That is one of the biggest things you saw in the Civil Rights Movement you saw white people caring and coming down and marching. They werent affected by it but they cared about their fellow human. They cared about their common human, and that is what we as players want to do. When you see guys that want to come and advocate, guys that want to meet with Police Officers or have the town Hall Meetings we sat in a townhall meeting, and i am telling you we , had so many different opinions about Different Things. But we came away saying, you know what if there is an , injustice for somebody, then there is an injustice for all. We care about each other even if we are not experiencing the injustice. We want to know what the truth is, and we want to stand for justice personally. Personally as an athlete and as the threei said things i want to stand for our truth justice, and , righteousness. I dont care what color the person is or where they live in the world. Those are three things me and my family are going to stand for. As a union, as a body of players, a lot of guys feel that way. I have been talking to some players about, you know organizing a player advocacy , network. Where players would come and meet, come to washington we , would have speakers coming. Joe mentioned the new york giants had a senator talk to them about Different Things. But there is a stirring in the nfl. I would imagine it is in the nba. But it is really a reflection of what is going on outside of those doors. It is a reflection of what is going on out here. We all feel like we want to do something, but what . And so i have been talking to , some players about putting something together, but ultimately, i think we have of responsibility as players in the National Football league to walk on our platform well. And to be responsible. And so that is what we want to do. Dave zirin awesome. Can we get a round of applause for our panelists . [applause] dave zirin carmen, joe, and benjamin, thank you so much. Now we are opening the floor up for questions. There is going to be a microphone that is going around. All you have to do is put your hand up. One of the folks will grab one for you. We are asking folks to keep questions or comments less than two minutes. That is not a comment on the wisdom that you are dispensing. It is just to make sure as many people as possible actually get to speak. I would just say if you hear a tap on the mic or if i say wrap up, dont take it personal. My name is charcoal, i an am attorney in washington, d. C. My grandson says get well and come back. They need you. Benjamin watson i will. They really want you out there. My question is on your last comment. In mind of what adam jones said about Baseball Players being reticent to speak out. Because of the decreasing minority population in baseball. What initiatives are the unions and aflcio doing to cross pollinate with other sports unions so that this movement of Colin Kaepernick doesnt end after the commissioner stands and awards the trophy on super bowl sunday . Benjamin watson our unions are in constant communication with each other. The president of each union, the executive directors, i mean. They are always in communication. While in the beginning of the season it was Colin Kaepernick, if you look to last year in the nba there were different , demonstrations, and if you look at baseball, there were different demonstrations. So there is not the division that there may seem to be. I think that we all kind of piggyback off of each other and we all do it in different ways. The sports are different. But when it comes exactly to the unions, i know they have been in conversation with each other. The people that work in these spaces, myself included, have been working together on issues for quite some time. On other issues, not just this. Been as ae have legislative group, all the Players Associations get together, we throw down on the things that matter to players, not only in football but after ball, hockey Even Major League , soccer. We sit around the table, and we see what is on the legislative agenda, and we kind of work through those issues together. Why, because we know something that affects football today could be a detriment to basketball tomorrow if we move our eye off of it too far. I almost said take our eye off the ball, but that would have been a really bad joke right now. [laughter] Benjamin Watson especially from a labor perspective, because there have been times where we have had to go to the state house because of certain proposed laws, especially in louisiana. There was something. But they always keep us abreast of because in the state of , whatever it is, there is an nba team, and the owner is trying to do x, y, and z. How can this affect us . The lines of communication are there. We are already at work. We are in the same bucket even though we are playing a different sport. I appreciate the behind the scenes work. It was more of a public clamor or would be Even Stronger for you, but i give that to your judgment. That then the fact is nflpa is the only sports union under the umbrella of the aflcio. I believe so. Dave zirin that is something i would love to see the other sports unions change. My name is johnny craig live , in d. C. I really appreciate the panel. This is more along the lines of i guess journalism and how they are reporting all these protests. I have been written down to make sure i get this right. For every athlete protest, there are thousands of oped writers that decide to kind of plant a flag on the side of shut up and play. There was one about carlos. David brooks recent piece on recently telling is gladly to shut up and play. Most of these writers kind of escape criticism and there is no longterm effects to their career, unlike the athletes they cover or critique. How do you feel about how these are being reported in the media . Basically. Dave zirin that definitely starts with you, benjamin. How do you feel like this has been reported . Benjamin watson like what we talked about before a lot of it , is shut up and play. I had a conversation we mentioned earlier about High School Players emulating we have seen peewee teams taking a knee. Do they really know why they are doing what theyre doing . In middle school and High School Team in texas, a coach is calling me. He is white. He is calling me saying i want to know how to explain this to these kids. His kids are taking a knee. It opened the door for his kids to be open with him about their fears, about their frustrations about what they are seeing on coachand about him as a to step into their world. I think those are some of the things that are not being reported. The fact that a white coat who is the next nfl quarterback, coaching majority black kids that he is coaching, that he is able to have that honest conversation with them about their feelings, about their older brothers who are locked up or their older brothers who had experiences with the police. Hes able to have empathy at that point. You know, obviously, when it comes to journalism, i flick on the tv, i read something everybody has an opinion, and , they stay on their sides. I think what is missing in journalism to me is a willingness to hear an experience that is not yours. A willingness to validate it, even if you dont agree, but to at least discover it and not make a certain statement to fulfill the ideals of the people that are reading what you are reading. Dave zirin that was beautifully beautifully said. , as a journalist, i would say that i think the majority of reporting that has been done on the black lives matter protests of athletes has been crap. The other word i would use to describe it is cowardly. I believe it has been cowardly for a lot of the reasons that ben said. Mike wise is here from the undefeated leslie is here from , think progress. Both of those sites have been terrific on this question. And they are not terrific though this is what is so terrific because i agree with every last bit of analysis. They are not cowardly because they are actually reporting on what the athletes are saying. And the cowardice of much of the medias reporting on this has been they dont actually say what Colin Kaepernick or what these 10yearold or 11yearold kids in beaumont, texas and everybody in between, what they are actually standing i should say kneeling for. They are putting their own strawman onto it, like saying, this is an antimilitary protest, this is a we hate america protest, let them just shut up and play. And by doing all that, though they lack the courage to say, i , disagree with the idea that there is a policing problem in this country. I mean i personally think we , have a terrible policing crisis in this country with unarmed people getting killed people of color getting killed. , but if you dont think that, you have a responsibility as a journalist and especially an editorial writer like david brooks to argue that case and make it your but to turn it into point. Something else, like this discussion about how beautiful the flag is . It is bs. It is journalism not worthy of its name. I was wondering i was very excited this past year to see a lot of student athletes starting to step out and trying to organize and then subsequently crushed when the labor board pretty much nullified that. I was most notably at northwestern university. We supported their efforts to organize. What we see is a realization by some folks that i have to stand up for myself. Beeni am the person i have waiting for. That we are the people i have been waiting for, and you saw at northwestern. I do not believe that will be the end of the conversation. We saw a lot of people doing the same thing theyre doing with this Colin Kaepernick situation. Were asking for cash. Players when asking for cash. They were asking for better and everyone said they just want to be paid, these are greedy student athletes come instead of talking about the underlying issues. Same thing happening with Colin Kaepernick. Asked for was a conversation about policing in this country and how it is affecting certain communities. Instead the conversation was changed mostly by journalist to a conversation about why he is unamerican and why it is unamerican to do what he is doing. You have to take a stand for what you know to be the right is listening to the underlying message and what the person is really saying, not letting someone else guides you somethinging you else. [applause] obviously there are numbers you have to crunch, but they are workers that deserve the same rights we have is workers. I remember when they wanted to. Nionize i did not know what union was , so to seein college how these college at least paying attention to what was going on in the nfl, it was very encouraging. That therey think are many breaches of rights in college because we dont have the representation we have in the nfl. We dont have the opportunity to collectively bargain and have their voices heard. It started because several players at northwestern took a labor of law class, and they were sitting there and said this sounds very familiar. They were effectively punished by their coach, by the administration of the school, for actually trying to apply what they were learning in class. Why they tried to steer athletes to certain degrees because i dont want them to learn too much. One of the most inspiring and experiences was to sit in and on a class at kansas university. Shaun alexander, who teaches sports history, and a ton of athletes, challenging conversations, and it was like a does not have to the basket weaving 101. Its good that the nfl is. Eing neutral you been getting pushback from the owners. Some of the nfl owners as well, whale the wall. Are you saying pushback they dont like with Colin Kaepernick in the other players are doing. Theret i do know that have been statements by owners, particularly as couple of weeks. One said he did not agree with what players were doing as a related to their protest. So i think you can probably find some of that out there. Theave to remember that owners of the National Football league are millionaires of billionaires. The atmosphere they run in is different from the athletes to play for them. We understand they have a different mentality. Hope is that they will develop a relationship with the athletes in the locker room and go down and talk to them about the comex dances is they have, and maybe will make them better owners. Maybe before we have our next Labor Agreement up for negotiation in 20 21. 2021. Just for you guys, i know you talked about unity in the locker room and kaepernicks stand is not dividing locker rooms, but to me its bothersome. I would say i dont want to talk to everybody in this room but probably a lot of likeminded people if you went out today and there was something going down and you wanted to have a black lives matter protest, a lot of us would get right in line with you. The only people who stood up for kaepernick have been africanamerican athletes in the and a woman soccer player. , to me it almost speaks of a division. Am i right . Or do our White Brothers just need to get on board . Thats a great question. In our meeting town hall yesterday, i wont say everything that happened, but one of the things we talked about was the difference between White America and black america and the experience and how White America has to want to enter into the black experience. You dont have to. And thats not good or bad. Thats just the way it is. You can go in your lane most of your life and not have to think about what the experience is like for someone who is black. Whereas those who are black have to know about white culture, they have to understand how to navigate in a white spheres. Thats the way the country is set up. Again not right or wrong. What is wrong when you actively dont want to engage and dont want to experience, and dont want to hear something thats not your experience. So i think there are many white players who empathize. I think there are many who think its outlandish. I think many black players think who think what hes doing is outlandish, as well. We havent seen white players take a knee. I remember one player said he was waiting for who is going to be the first white guy because that player is going to face probably more wrath than kaepernick has faced. Hes going to face it from people that are very close to him. And so they are probably weighing that while they are making that decision. To me its a privilege to be able to not stand up. For me, this is my race. These are the people i care about. These are my brothers. I have never met benjamin, but hes my brother. If my brother is standing or kneeling, i feel i have to, too. Its almost unacceptable to say we support these people when we are on the field but when it , comes to their actual life, we are not going to actually support them. Through the work weve been doing here at the aflcio, we have learned that race is not a black peoples problem. Its everybodys problem. White people are affected by race, racism, coded racism, malicious racism, strategic racism, just like blacks, latinos, asians and so forth. There have been so many policies and procedures created throughout time to divide workers of color and white workers, even throughout this election cycle we are seeing how race is playing a predominant role. And if you think about it, especially for those of you who are into labor, think about right to work. Often times we dont talk about right to work as a racist piece of legislation. But vance muse who was racist, he decided, he said, i dont want those black apes in the work force with White Brothers. So he created a devisive piece of legislation to go along with jim crow laws to make it difficult for black workers and white workers to Work Together in the south because of what was happening in the north. So again, you have to follow the money and follow the politics. If white folks think race and racism doesnt affect them, then theyve got another thing coming, especially if the sport you care about the most is pro predominantly black. 70 . Do you want to speak to that, too . Yeah. I judge just say while we havent maybe we havent seen widespread support in a vocal way from a bunch of players that dont look like Colin Kaepernick, but what we have seen is an exmilitary veteran who is also a long snapper in the National Football league come to the aid of Colin Kaepernick and say he supports him 100 . Thats nate boyer. Right . There are guys that have stood up and said its his right to do it and i stand by him that dont look like Colin Kaepernick. I think that speaks to what said earlier how this , shared emotion a lot of these guys are developing because they are now having these conversations for the first time in a real way, are leading them to find their own way and their own agency. Its not for me to say how that happens. I dont know that my job as a person that works at the Players Association definitely, but as a consumer of these sports as well is to say the only way you can show Colin Kaepernick your support is by doing exactly the same thing Colin Kaepernick is doing at all times because , thats not true. Im taking your agency away from you to do what you need to do to be comfortable in this moment. I would also harken back to the question about owners. Weve seen stephen ross offer his support 100 standing behind the players who are protesting, as well. So weve seen some people that maybe werent onboard at first but once they found their way but once they found their way and found their own agency, theyre stepping out in a way them butomfortable to , also confronting some of these things they see that are in alignment with what colin keffer nick is confronting as well. Kaepernick is confronting as well. Its just also worth noting at the high school level, at the Junior High School level, there are white athletes, brown athletes kneeling with their black teammates, volleyball, cheerleading, football, band members, if you saw the footage in oakland, star spangled banner singers who are young. If nothing else, that should make us feel hopeful, even if there is disappointment we havent seen more white male professional athletes step up. Because also in the wnba you saw how powerful it can be when white and black teammates kneel together. To go to what carmen said. Right about this , wherelar issue a lot are the white athletes. The idea taking the weight is so important. Like my cohost tom thomas says being a black athlete is a burden and blessing. Blessing because you get to connect with this incredible tradition of people like jackie muhammed ali,mmed onl but a burden because its on you from the medias perspective to protest or if another athlete gets in trouble with the law and theyre black, the microphone is in your face what do you think about dog fighting as if that has anything to do with your life. That is the burden of being a black athlete. Its past time for white athletes to take some of that burden. I want to talk a little about the pushback. This isnt the first time black athletes stood up to fight back. Paul roberson to went to branch wiccy and convinced him to help Jackie Robinson to integrate baseball. Then he went on to say this is just not a problem of this guy being denied the opportunity to play for the dodgers, this racism is endemic in this system of capitalism. He wanted the discussion to go further. Once that point was raised, Paul Roberson became ousted. They took away his all american football thing, erased him off the list at princeton. When muhammed ali went further saying this is a problem of black people. This is more a systemic problem, sort of what carmen said. So i was wondering what is the message . Is the message what we are trying to explain to people, is that racism for all workers and we need to build a United Movement to bring it down . I think thats what the message should be. I was wondering what do you think about that . What is my goal . Thats what we learned over the past almost two years having conversations about race is obviously there are multiple ways to have a conversation about race but the number one , way that we have been able to bring people together is this narrative that racism hurts everyone and what is the impact that it actually has on our work force . You know, we heard we did a town hall style meeting in minneapolis where there was a worker that said i have to go to work i have to wake up an hour early to mentally prepare for the racism im going to have to deal with when i get into the workforce, and they were not an nfl player. This was a, you know, it was what someone would call a regular worker. How does that affect productivity if someone has to wake up early enough to deal with racism in that way . Wow. I feel like from the legislation that were working on, i mean, oftentimes when we think about trade and trade pacific partnership, we have to be willing to talk about this is something that hurts all workers, but specifically im , from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. When i look around my community and the abandoned buildings im thinking about how is trade completely decimated my little city . How has other bad trade deals hurt my little city . And so, you know, for us i think its going to take a Culture Shift within the Labor Movement for us to not, a, have to show up feeling the white guilt because this isnt about white guilt. This isnt even about white privilege. This is about saying communities of color make up a significant portion of the movement. I care about these people and it is time for us to figure out how do we have full integration . Not integration that makes feel comfortable but to move a , Progressive Agenda forward. Ill tell you what. If we had folks from the imgrant immigrant Rights Community and the movement for black lives standing in line with us on trade, on tpp, then we might be able to put more pressure on the administration. So if people continue to see the Labor Movement as divisive or if they dont get to see the mes of the world. I work at the Labor Movement. Im a black lady. Right . The more they get to see those of us that work here, the closer of communities of color yueunite unite around our issues because we work on the economy. Hmm. Hmm. Oh. Mike harrison. I wanted to ask a question about the locker room. So, the nfl is 70 black. And therefore, white players are in a, quote, minority situation. So what experiences do they learn about africanamericans and racism . Because at one point i remember 20 years ago it was said that the locker room, because of so many black players in sports, that these white players will learn to be antiracist and i dont know if they would take a leadership role. So is that not happening . And when you go all go home at night, do white players go to white neighborhoods and do black players go to black neighborhoods or more mixed neighborhoods . Then when you look at the retirement of white players and where they live and send their kids to school, is there a difference between where black player that is retire and white players . This is the issue of fighting racism and whether personal relationships play a lead role in that. Yeah. I guess as im in the locker room you asked a lot of questions. Three questions. Im trying to write them all down. So, so most i would say that most of the guys dont go home to black neighborhoods. I dont know any nfl players that live in black neighborhoods. Ive been in the league for 13 years. It doesnt mean there arent any. I just dont know them. I think, also, the nfl is 70 black. Or 60 whatever it is. , so, i was talking to a couple players yesterday, white players, and their first experiences with black people, period, had to do with sports. They were never around black people. They grew up wherever. Blacks only make up 13 of the population. They grew up in many different places and never had an experience, never touched a black person until they got to college and were on football teams with black people. Thats very, very valid. They had no experience. Only thing they knew about black people is what they saw on b. E. T. , mtv, the news channels and a lot of those images arent the best. So they already came into this experience with a preconceived notion of what black meant. Now, some of them were debunked. Some were affirmed in their experiences, so now whether this is in the locker room you can be , a place with other people integrated with other people and still have racist attitudes. Right . It is possible for you to get into a place with mixed company, black, white, latino, whatever it is, work toward a common goal , and thats great, and then leave your separate ways and go home and still have prejudices and racism against the people that you were just taking a shower with after practice. Its possible. Not until theres a heart change with all of us are we able to look at each as human and debunk all the things we think about each other because well look at , each other and simply look for ways to affirm our prejudices against each other and so i , think the first step, obviously, is being in the same space together, working together but theres a step beyond that , that is even deeper than that if were going to change the racism and understand each other better. As far as your question, your question about the kids, you know, going going to college . Is that what it was . Going to school. What schools they go to . Most of the guys i know they have their kids we home school our kids. I have five children. And ill tell you that my wife homeschools the oldest two, 7 and 6. But most of them send them to private schools or homeschool them. I know some people go to public schools, as well. I dont know the racial makeup. It runs the gamet. You have guys in the nfl coming from all different places in america all different economic , levels and expectations what they want their kids to do and theres a variety there in the schooling. I would also say that you its a good question for the question the answer to the question has to be skewed with the Socio Economics that are involved and the lifestyles that are involved. And i mean to say by that that nfl players have to think about their security, as well. Not to say that there arent affluent majority africanamerican neighborhoods they could live in but most of , the cities that the teams are located, the players live where other players live and looking at the neighborhood, the neighborhood probably looks like the locker room in some sense where they see people that look like them, of the same Socio Economic makeup, and because of the way wealth is distributed in this country that probably mean that is the neighborhoods not going to represent the same level of blackness as the locker room itself. Right . So id say that. And then when it comes to sending their kids to school, ill take the Washington Football Team for instance. Most of the players want to live close to the facility. That means that they have to live in Loudon County because the Washington Football Team practices in Washington Football Team park which is in loudon , county. So, so the huskies . Yeah. The huskies. Right. Get em, joe. In terms of when you live i mean, where you live together after youve retired. Right. No, no, no. They still live im going do get there. What ill say to you then is this. Then i go to the former player convention. Right . Because we have a convention every year. Over 15,000 former nfl players that still live that are still living in this country. Right . Or around the world. And then guy to the convention and i see almost 1,000 former nfl players that played together, ten, 15, 20 years ago. And what i find is that most of those guys that played on the teams together, they still have their houses together in the same neighborhood. Or their families still vacation together or their kids went to the same School Together because they retired in the same area and their kids grew up together so the relationships that , started in the locker room broke down some of those barriers that could have existed because they lived in a neighborhood that didnt look exactly like their locker room did, meaning majority black, minority white. But the relationships between those families changed something about the makeup of their future. Many of these players retire where players live. So they get a chance to spend more time with each other for longer periods of time and as a result of that you do see some of those changes and some of those barriers being broken down. They end up coaching together and they end up coaching their little daughters Basketball Team together. Youll see how the change that may not have happened in any other way happened because of those relationships that develop over time. Look i played football at texas , Christian University back from 1995 to 1998. One of my teammates entered into the hall of fame at tcu this year. He asked me to be a person to one of the people who said something about him as he entered the hall of fame. Where he was from, he didnt grow up in the same neighborhood i grew up. In fact hes not black and played offensive line beside , him. You know what we have done . We built a great friendship over the years. Not just when we played. Havent played together in almost 20 years now. At the same time, hes one of the really good friends and i was happy to do it when he asked me to. I know his kids. He knows my son. He knows my wife and we are , living in that space that you are talking about specifically. Wow. We have time for one more question. Its oh. Terrific. Two more. Two more. My name is len elmore and played a little bit of professional basketball as well as thank you. The reason first thing i want to make a comment. Im heartened by the young men and those with you to take an activist bend to be able to look at social justice and remember that, you know, youre part of the society. Not just, you know, professional athletes. As somebody who grew up in the 1960s and played in the 1970s and 1980s and recognize there are an awful lot of issues that we could have stood out for and spoken up for and many of us did, but its unpress unprecedented you guys have access to the media, social media, and also, unprecedented leverage in the corporate world with regard to sponsorships, et cetera. My question is, is there more that can be done besides i dont mean this as a pejorative. Sensationalism and more than the sensationalist actions of kneeling. The fact is as i mentioned with the unprecedented leverage in Corporate America that professional athletes have, can they have impact on messaging . Can they have impact on where the dollars are focused with regard to solving some of these social ills . I know as president of the National Basketball retired Players Association we have a underwrote a brief filed in two School Desegregation cases. Are there ways to be able to have impact beyond the sensationalism simply because i think some of the pushback comes from the fact they see the sensationalism but they dont , see the other actions through other channels, probably have more beneficial impact than just, you know, starting the conversation. Theyd like to have the conversation finished, if you will. So that was my question. Is there more that can be done . Do you guys want to go first . Yeah. Ill go first. Ill say that you all did a fabulous job and we stand on your shoulders from what you guys did, you know, while you were playing so thank you for , that. Theres always more that can be done. I think one of my biggest fears has always been just that. Ok. You got guys that are taking this action. And what are they going to do next . Im very encouraged because throughout the nfl, there is a Group Conference call, group me message with hundreds of players where guys are getting together, talking about what can they do next . Guys on different teams are brainstorming about what our the the ideas . Why are we doing this . Whats the next step . Who can we talk to . Theres that murmuring about what to do next. I think that, you know, obviously when you talk about corporate sproiponsorships, guys are losing those. You know . We saw a player lose some of the sponsorships because of that. And thats unfortunate. Thats sometimes the price that you pay as you well know for standing up for something. But i think there are also guys who arent going to lose it and because of the players that they are. And they have an opportunity to push change further if theyre willing. I always take things back to a personal level, and i think for the athlete, especially the black athlete, in our homes, as fathers, as husbands, what kind of children are we raising . What kind of men are we being . We talk about whats going on out there, and what is going on out there is terrible, said dont get me wrong. There is so much injustice. A lot of things arent right. What can we control that is right . Are you married to your kids mother . Are you raising your kids . Are you standing in the gap for them . Are you praying for them . Are you demonstrating what it means to be a man . That right there can go just as far as what can happen out there for us when it comes to this. So there is there is a lot to be done and i think that the more people that are aware on all levels, whether its in corporations or sponsorships or whether its guys in the locker room or even outside influences, the conversation starts, but youre right. The baton has to be handed off to action. And the way we finish it, because you said were starting the conversation but people want , to see us finish it, is what you talked about. The retired players of the National Basketball Association Getting together and signing off on a brief so that they can support issues that were happening in their communities and use what celebrity they had to support those issues and support those causes, by having these players have this conversation now while theyre still playing, we hope to engage them even more when theyre retired. And what guys like Benjamin Watson and the rest of his executive committee did in the last round of collective bargaining was also ensure that they were setting up a system that can help support guys through their transition. For the First Time Ever the Nfl Players Association created through the leadership of the nflpa and its board of player representatives the Players Trust, thats designed, 100 , to help players transition out of football and into their next career move and their life after football in an almost seamless way. And one of the things we talked to them about in that transition is how we can kept connect them to the issues that they care about, but also, sending them through an evaluation of who they are as a person to understand who they are without sports. So that they know where their place is in society and oftentimes what you see is an awakening. Maybe i thought i wanted to be one thing while i was a Football Player because thats what everyone expected me to be and , but now that i am not an athlete anymore, i went to be an artist and express myself through my artwork or maybe i do want to own a bunch of franchises and instead of just owning the franchises i want to take the foundation i used for my celebrity weekend and now turn it into a real support system. I read an interesting story today about the Devard Darling a se twinfsu player who i brother died playing in the National Football league for a while and gone home and giving out scholarships every year in his brothers name because thats his way to make a difference. Were seeing players taking the step and making a difference happened. You know, i think finally, and you kind of spoke who how you use your celebrity. When joe and when nflpa and aflcio hosted the concussion film people were like nfl players are going to show up. Everybody and their mama were there. For us we thought about how do , we use this if we can get nfl players or nba players to show up at something, how can we use the celebrity as an opportunity to register people to vote . How we can use celebrity to move the agenda on criminal Justice Reform or immigration . So on and so forth. At least if athletes are watching, i think right now we are in a pretty intense election cycle and over the next couple of weeks, you know, the Labor Movement specifically is going to be knocking on doors. We are going to be making phone calls. If the steelers show up to the pittsburgh canvas hosting on 4, we are going to guarantee that more people come out and knock on those doors with us. You know, so i would say to anybody watching, you know, the first thing is i know that oftentimes athletes lean towards charities. But leaning towards social justice and activism is also another way to serve in the role model capacity and i would say , to anybody interested in the work that we are doing around elections, they can go to my vote, my right. Org. You can get the information on Voting Rights laws, particularly if youre formerly incarcerated , because often times in some states you can or cannot vote depending on if you were formerly incarcerated. And finally, you know, you should text justice to 235246 to learn more about the criminal Justice System because ill say this. One of you mentioned this. You know, im sure when benjamin is here, people love and adore him but if hes somewhere in the , middle of alabama they might , not know he plays for the Baltimore Ravens, and so all of us need to figure out how are we going to double down our efforts to try to reform the criminal Justice System because black people are being incarcerated at, you know, just ridiculously high levels. Before we get to the next speaker, very briefly, first just to underline what carmen said, philanthropy is a beautiful thing but theres a difference between philanthropy and politics. We are very specifically talking about politics, and with politics comes risk, and because it comes with risk, that is what makes it matter and makes it resonate. And in that, in that tone i just wanted to again thank len elmore for being here. Just the power of sports, i was a kid growing up in new york city. I have this room memories of being my sons age. Old ands eight years , seeing len elmore speak and just being like, wow. And honestly being blown away and then you were in law school and whatnot, i remember being utterly unsurprised. I was like, of course. Because it was your voice, you know . It inspired me before i was 10. I mean, thats just the power that athletes can have. And so thats a reminder for me about the importance of what we all do here and thank you. Its an honor to be in the room with you for me. So thank you so much. My names joe williams and i feel like i need to yield the balance of my time to the gentleman from college park mr. , mr. Elmore. Theres not much more very many places to go after that. Two quick observations and very, very brief question. The first is, the sports writing, you know, im a journalist myself. I cover politics. I see what the White House Press corps looks like and i think that might be one of the problems in translation of the black lives Matter Movement is that when you get people covering the elite beats they tend not to have those experiences that you were talking about. Number two, when you have a football coach like lou saban making 5 million a season, it seems ridiculous the players cant unionize. And my third question is you , talked about my brief question is you talked about the end game. Where is the end game for this . It seems like its the start of a much larger conversation were still reluctant to have surrounding race. Anybody want to take that on . Yeah. Are you asking where the end game is for colin or all athletes . With the nfl. I mean, then what . I mean seems like trying to start a conversation. That conversation is still not entirely engaged. I was at an event earlier today where they talked about the disconnect between White America and black america. It seems like the bridge, you know, we are getting a conversation started. How do you get the conversation fully engaged . Well, i dont know what colins end game is going to be but he stated what he thought , would help him find a better place in his protest, and he said that its simply i want to make sure that the conversation started and ill continue to protest until all people recognize that black lives matter. Right . So, i dont know that were going to get to a place where that is satisfied. So he very well end up may protesting for the rest of his career. That will make me sad and i hope that we wont have to watch that or see that happen but its a , very real possibility. And the end game for many of our players seems to be seems to be something theyre developing and working on right now and thats why im happy that we have people at the Players Association to kind of help them through that but that more , players are starting to come on board with an idea as benjamin mentioned, theyre having conversations outside of the Players Associations but across team borders and across cities about how they can make action happen in a real way. And i think the end game well see there is ultimately players acting and taking control of their own agency and speaking for themselves about these issues. Not through joe briggs Public Policy council at the Players Association but Benjamin Watson , and teammates standing side by side and going to mike wise saying i need time on your website or through espn just like you gave to lebron to talk about his decision. I need you to make sure that we have an opportunity to talk about these issues so that america can see where were going and where we are coming from. And i dont know. I dont know that thats going to happen but my hope is that , mike wise is here in the office and will talk to the people to make it happen. Anybody else want to take that . Whats the end game . Whats the end game . I think that sometimes thats a way to mute someone saying whats the end game . If you dont have one, you shouldnt protest. Not that thats what youre saying but i think the conversation he is quote unquote started is a continuation. Its a continuation of a conversation or a movement that has been happening since 1619. Uhhuh. Right . Its a continuation of that. And it is simply his time, our time to be to play our roles in this whole progress, in this conversation. Its our time. And the end game is obviously, you know, justice for everyone. Yes. In america, black, white, across the world, we want justice for everyone. Are we going to get there this side of heaven . I dont know. But thats the end game. And so the end game, unfortunately, it seems, and it can be frustrating at times until you look back. So when youre here and look back, you are like, man. We have done some things toward the end game. But when youre looking forward it always seems like, man, when it always seems like, man, when is this thing ever going to , break . So the end game is to continue. The end game is really stamina. The end game is having a willingness on all of our parts to continue to fight for it. And to have our eyes open to it and be willing to hear from each other and be willing to listen and what happens a lot of times , is we want to throw our hands up. I know sometimes i do. I get frustrated sometimes. Sometimes i look at the news and read something and i know ive just had a great conversation with a guy here and like we are here. He sees where im coming from and then hear something from somebody else, its never going to change. It is never going to change. Let me deal with mine and deal with my kids and my wife and close off to the world. And no. So the end game is having the willingness to continue to put yourself out there, continue to fight. Engage. And engage and have stamina. Yeah. You know, a black, gay labor to be afraid is to act as if the truth is not true. What has happened for this generation is that now we really know the truth. That, one, it is ok for athletes to stand up. You know, once again, we know that that is ok. But the second thing is, you know, i dont necessarily know that the end game is with this generation but perhaps with the , next one and ill tell you why. My stepson is 15 years old. He plays football. Idolizes the nfl. Wants to play for the seahawks and wears a black lives matter pin on his book bag. For me to watch him walk out of the house with this black lives matter pin means theres an entire generation of people, no matter what our generation is talking about, that understands the importance of the work that were doing. So my hope is, one, both that there is a whole community of young people who feel inspired to speak up and know that the truth is true. But i think the second thing is, you know, what this is going to do is allow for other people in their workforces to be able to speak up, to have an athlete stand up and talk about Racial Justice means that a nurse or a garbage man or a mine worker or someone else can actually say, black lives matter. I care about race. I care about gender. I care about lgbtq equality. If the athletes continue to be brave and strong, its actually going to shift culture and shift narrative, and that is what america needs. We dont need more people telling us what we cant do. We need more of us rising up and saying what we are trying to do which is make change. , [applause] [applause] if you guysto know had any suggestions on what we as the fans of the players that we love so much can do to support a cause that we also feel very strongly about. And the second question is, has there been an initiative by the either Players Association or the Nfl Players Association, the players or the league to do some thing like a social Responsibility Program such as the nba cares to address some of the issues that the predominantly black or minority, minority players in the league feel strongly about such as Police Brutality or any other issues they encounter once they leave the stadium . Yeah. Ill le ill let you answer that second one but as far as fans go, i think that, you know, fans are fan support the game. Fans are the reason, you know, why the stadiums are filled and you have a very strong you have strong power when it comes to what you want to see on the field and how you support us and we appreciate that. You have seen fans across america stand for whatever it is, you know, being Colin Kaepernick or being social justice. You have seen fans but you have also seen fans say terrible things about him and so one of the biggest things i would say for a fan would be you know other fans and for you fans to check each other. When you are saying things that are inappropriate. Being willing to stand up and defend someone, someones humanity. You know, some of the things i have heard from fans saying pfns saying things out of the stands, fans writing things on social media, it is ridiculous because i know there are people that know them that maybe arent checking them and telling them that is inappropriate no matter how you feel about them. You know, secondly, for fans, i would say that, you know, as we have been talking about different ways to affect change is we want to engage with fans. We want to be your voice in some respects. We are very aware of whens going on. We are aware of the things that you feel. And so we want to find ways to engage with you all, whether its events, whether it is you know, we talk about this player Advocacy Network we have been talking about amongst different players, forming that networks where we can engage with fans for social change. And so, number one, we appreciate what you how you all feel and your support and biggest thing is willing to stand against other people when they say certain things. Oh, as far as what the union does, nba cares . Yeah. Ill talk about that. Yeah. So, in addition to making sure that we are responsive to major issues that happen, sort of, i guess, the issue that happened in haiti with the hurricane that just passed through, we have done a number of fundraising opportunities behind the scenes to make sure that resources are getting to not only to the to the country, but also, that our players are informed about how their family members and people that are connected through their Family Network have access to that sort of support, as well. We have done the same thing every time theres been a major crisis, not only within the boundaries of the United States of america but also we did it , for japan. We did it when baton rouge was flooded. You would see players being johnny on the spot and asking to be on the ground and helping out. You also saw guys like pierre gasson and Ricky Jean Francois and active me believes of the Nfl Players Association taking time to go to the locations and make sure that the things the things that we wanted to give as support made it there. But you probably didnt see jack brewer who was an another , former player who was already on the ground the day after the hurricane hit who was organizing work earls there in haiti to make sure that they felt the need and the support that we were sending and the love we were trying to send to them, as well. And thats an international issue. You asked about whens happening when these guys walk off the field to make sure theyre supported. I go back again to the Players Trust and organization inside the nflpa helping these guys find their own footing but in the communities that we exist in, Players Association also supporting players and the way that their local foundations are running. Why do i focus on that right now at this moment . Because during the summertime when players are having the Vice President biden Vice President biden Vice President biden camps, hundreds of thousands of kids across the United States of america get the opportunity to have direct interaction with nfl players through their football camps that they host in the local communities, by far its one of the biggest and best operations that is almost 100 player driven and the Nfl Players Association supports that 100 behind the scenes by making sure that they have the correct amount of Operational Support and access to the things that they need to make the camps successful. And thats one of the playerways that players give back directly in the summertime. But in addition to that, throughout the season, you will see us supporting our players and our players giving out any number of tickets to Football Games so people that couldnt afford those tickets have the opportunity to experience a football game. Its not just about them seeing the game itself, but getting them in the stadium and showing them a different place and a way that they can spend their time, recreational time, as well, and hopefully getting them some interaction and back to the point of fans and what you can do. When you see those young kids going to those games, be supportive of them and you can also check the people around you to make sure that they see how adults can interact in a way not confrontational and as theyre shouting things at Colin Kaepernick and the rest of the teammates and the other players taking a stance, you can be there in the stands kind of making sure that they understand the young people around them, theyre watching. And theyre seeing and theyre taking note of how these people interact as adults and some of that seeps into them, as well. I would say go ahead. One more thing i would say is that when it comes to this specific issue of race, social justice, those types of things that are very divisive, political, the locker room and our membership is a reflection of the United States. So there are a bunch of different views in that locker room. And while something may seem 100 right to me, and i can back it up and something that we should all stand for, we also as a union understand that we represent a lot of views. And so, when we enter into Something Like this, specifically, where theres so many different views, we always have to be mindful of how much we can advocate and support a certain view, especially because were a union. Right . And so, thats always a difficult thing because Different Things come up and guys always have great ideas and guys when it comes to this issue but we want to be mindful that but we want to be mindful that we represent player rights, one coming to working rights. And so thats primary. And then when it gets outside of that into things like this, we want to support them and what theyre doing and a lot of times its individual players who were supporting in their efforts for social justice. For example, you know, coming and doing Something Like this or at a camp. If a guy at a camp wants to bring in a speaker or if he wants to go himself and go something in the community those , are more individual ventures a lot of times to be mindful that and respectful to all of the different views in the locker room when it comes to certain issues. Now, ill just throw out people might have heard about this but there was a 100person protest in the middle of the Buffalo Bills tailgating when the San Francisco 49ers came to town. About a threehour protest through the tailgating and then , took a knee right when the anthem started to play. I am not sure if i recommend that to everybody but there are , powerful acts of solidarity that can be undertaken in concert with others. You know . And i wrote about it. People can check my twitter. You can find the article. I interviewed people part of the protest and fascinating and sad and also says a lot about where we are and also about the bravery of the people who did this, is that the night before their protest, about 75 people were in a Church Basement practicing violence deescalation training and how to respond when people wasnt if, when people threatened them, cursed them and harassed them and rang of stories of the Civil Rights Movement, of course, and how people have the trainings before sitting in at a lunch counter in greensboro. In a way, on the one hand its incredibly tragic thats still where we are. On the other hand, it is incredibly inspiring that people are still willing to take up that fight at a buffalo tailgate. This is definitely [laughter] its more on the lighter side. Im pat. My nicknames the play lady. Im the founder of lets play america. And sports and justice from personally and professionally my whole life, by the way, i grew up in western pennsylvania in a big football family. Have meant the world to me. And ive asked myself at 50 what can i do to change things . That was eight years ago. So, i started a play club and a couple of years ago we became a nonprofit lets play america. , what we do is we hold fun free play events. We close streets to play. We join already organized events Like National night out and we play with the police and we play with citizens of all backgrounds, all ages. And were trying so hard to make some inroads and i have written to nfl 60. Now, the washington castles did bring top spin to a couple of our events, but its tough because what you said. I know from a football background that you do have these camps and, boy, i would love to go to the retired Players Convention and play with them. Just imagine, everybody, think back. Close your eyes for a minute. What did you play as a child and what did you love . And what inspired you and why did you want do go out and play with people . So thats what we need to bring back. We need to think about how can we come together . Just this morning i played in washington, d. C. , now sure, it was tennis. But do you know that 90 of the women were africanamerican . And then i think we had one man. You know . We let men play, too. And myself. And im telling you. For someone that played College Tennis and still competes, thats where i have the most fun and you want to know why . , because everybody just lets it all out. We just we laugh at each other. We tell stories. And of course i had my hillary button on. I hope that is ok to say. It is in the Labor Movement. Ok. Well, i just if we could connect, if we could reach out because i really believe i , have seen, organized planned over 70 play events. Theres a woman here thats helped me that closed her street to play a couple of years in a row. Just imagine if every one of you went home and said i am going to do something about this because everybody, everyone in this room and everyone in this world deserves to play. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, we are just about at the end. I really want to give if it was ok with the gentlemen here, Carmen Berkeley the last word. Thank you. Thank you. We are in your house right now. Thank you. Welcome. Even though its our house and in unions up here. Its our house, too. But please. I was hoping to give you the last word. Can you give a round of applause to dave, joe, benjamin . [applause] it is like i said earlier, absolute honor to have these three gentlemen here in the house of labor at the aflcio in washington, d. C. We oftentimes do not have these types of conversations, especially with people of this caliber that are making this much change in the world. You know, for me, i feel like this. You know, people talk about, you know, the Civil Rights Movement all the time and reflection, that talk about dr. King and the things he said but we are , literally living in that time. And so, what i would offer to folks that are struggling through how do you show up for injustice and Racial Justice . What are you going to say 40 or 50 years from now . I, i am definitely going to be able to say i stood up with Colin Kaepernick, black lives matter, with the wnba, and just so hope not only that the Labor Movement is able to have that same type of narrative, but that all of us could really stand together and ensure that my kids generation and my kids kids generation does not have to have this type of conversation. So thank you all so much and, you know, for those of you who are following online, make sure you tweet us aflcio to continue to follow the conversation. Thank you all so much for being here. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. O were asking students to participate. What do you think incoming President Donald Trump should . Ddress students can work alone or in groups of up to three to produce a 57 minute documentary on the issue presented. A grand prize will go to the team with the best overall entry. Overall, prizes will be awarded