Transcripts For CSPAN Acting 20240705

On false asylum claims. A lot of these people being taken advantage of. What is your office doing to prevent people who are not in this country legally from taking jobs away from American Workers, and b, making sure that their employers are obeying all the laws, particularly with regard to age . Secretary su thank you very much for that question, congressman. I think one of the things you might be referring to is recently a Division Found a large number of children working in exploitive child labor conditions. This was a company that had hired over 100 children, ages 1317, working, doing sanitation, cleaning work at the Meat Processing facilities. Mr. Grothman can i give you a followup . How many of these children were living with their parents . Secretary su i dont have a specific number on that. Many of these children were Migrant Children. As a result mr. Groth man do you like mr. Grothman do you look for that . Do you try to find the parents . Secretary su we look for child labor mr. Tkpwo tman if somebody is taken advantage of one of the things is you call the parents. Do you call the parents . Do you look where they are . Secretary su in this case what happened was again, some of the kids were 13 years old and working the night shift. Mr. Grothman if i found a 13yearold in the night shift i would want to call the parents quickly. Do you look for the parents . Secretary su what we did here. The white house started an Interagency Task force that does include some of our sister agencies. Some of the questions that you are asking mr. Grothman the question is, if you find a 13yearold working the night shift illegally, the first thing i would do is contact the parents and find out whats going on. There has been some concern in this town about in the last Administration Children being separated from their parents. Albeit relatively small compared to this sea of people working illegally. Do you look for the parents . Do you check it off or see whether they have parents . Secretary su some of that work involves the work of other agencies in the federal government. We do work together. This is not an answer of we are not paying attention of the the Interagency Task force includes the department of Homeland Security mr. Grothman anybody checking to see whether the kids are here with their parents or sent north by the drug cartels . Whats going on . Secretary su all important and relevant to the issue at hand. For the department of labor our work was to make sure mr. Grothman you dont consider that a concern. In 2005, you wrote that we live in a society built on White Privilege and systemic racial subordination. When i look at this statistics, people come here from all around the globe. People are not of european descend sk epbt. Frankly whose ancestors live in china, india, cuba all doing better than native born. When you look at all these groups, not of european ancestry, if we define doing well as financially well, it looks like, again and again and again we see people coming to this country from all across the globe doing better than the native born. You made that comment in 2005. We live in a society built on White Privilege and systemic racial subordination. Given the successes of people of indian, ancestry, india, china, philippines, cuba, historic i dont know if still true, Second Generation from the caribbean, do you still stand by this idea running down america we are a society built on White Privilege . Secretary su the other thing i said and more recently is we are a nation where the American Dream has was available to certainly my family. Mr. Grothman i regret saying that. Its an inflammatory thing to say about our country. Will you recant that statement . Secretary su i will certainly say that in all the things that we have talked about today and the work that i have done and my record over the last two years as deputy secretary but also the decades before, do i believe in equal opportunity for all communities. Mr. Grothman you made an inflammatory statement saying that our society is built on White Privilege. People here from all around the globe do financially better of people of european heritage of the india, china, cuba, philippines wherever you look chair foxx i need you to wrap up. Try to get an answer. Mr. Grothman could you comment on that . Or do you regret saying this . Secretary su this is a nation of opportunity. That is i believe that. I am a product of that. I am grateful for that. And i also believe that the work of this department of labor is make sure there are opportunities for everybody who is looking for a good job. It doesnt matter where you liv chair foxx thank you, ms. Su. Miss bonamici ms. Bonamici thank you for being here. I send my gratitude to you for you are your capable and steadfast leadership of the department of labor. Your qualifications to serve in this role and strong record as a champion for workers and businesses. Those are clear. I share the sentiments of many of my colleagues on my committee in urging the senate to quickly move forward with your confirmation. I find your personal story very inspiring. Its my understanding your parents had a small business. A pizza franchise. And with that they were able to send you and your sister to college. Look how far you have come. Its a very, very inspiring story. I have been a long time proponent of high quality Apprenticeship Programs because we know they work. I serve as in the kongal apprenticeship office. I understand its effective of building a pipeline of diverse and skilled workers with a pathway to a goodpaying job and help businesses thrive and succeed. Im happy about the the work in the district i represent. A high school in oregon operates the hillsborough kwro e advanced manufacturing apprenticeship. Located in what is sometimes known as the Silicon Forest in oregon. The first industry supported Youth Apprenticeship Program in our state. Its a twoyear program that provides a pathway for High School Students to get hands on paid training that prepares them for a career in advanced manufacturing. The Program Provides employers with skilled, diverse work force to help our nations competitive edge. Your leadership will make more programs like this available to more people across the country. I am a grateful for the work with the womens bureau leading to an increase in Labor Participation among women workers. I had the pleasure recently of meeting with Oregon Tradeswomen an amazing trailblazing organization in oregon that opens up pathways to women with careers in construction, manufacturing, mechanical, utility trades. I know the department of labor and the department of commerce supports the department of commerce and the department of energy in the he implementation of these historic investments that we have made to grow domestic manufacturing. I appreciate your leadership in making these pathways available to more women. Getting more women in the work force. As this Committee Considers reauthorizing the Work Force Innovation and opportunity act, i want to highlight the potential of strategics strategies and partnerships, particularly those that link employers with Community Colleges and other institutions of higher education. Another example from oregon, an Innovative Partnership between industries, universities, Community Portland Community College where the University Researchers and students work on industry, developed research problems, and provide students with hands on experience to get the skills they need to become skilled workers. Portland Community College has the willow creek campus that forged lasting relationships with the oregonbased advanced manufacturing and semiconductor companies. There is lots of great work being done at the state level that we could replicate. I want to ask you, madam acting secretary, the department of labor has emphasized sector strategies as an evidentbased approach to effective training in many of its competitive grants. The reason they are so effective is that they encourage important partnerships between Community Colleges, training providers, and other relevant stakeholders, much like we have seen in oregon. We know that employers are vital in developing these programs. They could use some assistance in creating and maintaining the partnership. What are sector strategies why are they so effective . What is department of labor doing and continuing to do to apply this evidencebased approach and grants and work . Secretary su congresswoman, thank you so much. I dont think i could more effectively describe the benefits of Training Programs and Work Force Partnerships that really work. You have just done. I appreciate that. As you have said i think that partnerships are critical to delivering on the really important need and opportunity we have right now to connect people, including people who have been left out of good jobs in the past. You mentioned to the, tent there are jobs extent there are jobs where women are underrepresented, i met with women across the country when given a chance, to lay pipe underground or work in the Construction Trade not only do an amazing job but find their own pathway to the middle class and lift up their families. All of these things i think need to happen in partnership. I do believe that the department of labor rule will help solidify those partnerships to bring people together. Thats probably why our funding, sector based fund something about that. You talk about apprenticeships. They are one key tool within those partnerships also. They are a proven, tried and true model. The average starting wage after completing an apprenticeship is 77,000. People who finish the program earn an average of 300,000 more over their career compared to their peers who do not. This is not just a job but a life changing opportunity. Ms. Bonamici i hope you have the opportunity to meet these people. I yield back. Chair foxx mr. Allen, you are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Allen thank you, madam chair. Thank you acting secretary for being here this morning. First question, you dont need to answer that in writing to the committee, but we had chairman powell come and talk about the situation with Interest Rates and the economy. He said their responsibility was full employment. Obviously inflation below 2 . He says we are at full employment. Then i said well, sir, do you know that the current work is about 62 which is the lowest its been in 20something years. He said thats not my job. Thats your job. As members of congress weve got to figure out whats going on in the work force out there. Right now we have we had a high in 2002 of almost 70 worker participation. If you do the math thats about 10 Million People we cant figure out where they are. Could your department do a study and find out where these people are and why they are not working . Or given the opportunity to work . So we can train those folks up and give them that great dignity and respect they deserve and a good job so they can live the American Dream . Secondly, moving on to environmental and social governance factors, when making investment decisions, your department you had a rule and that is precisely why congressman barr and i last Congress Introduced the ensuring sound guidance act to ensure retirement account managers consider only monetary factors in returns when making decisions on behalf of their client unless other wised authorized. We are currently in the process of reintroducing a version of that bill this congress. Yes or no, should maximizing assets for retirement be a Pension Plans top priority . Do you agree . Secretary su thank you very much. I do agree after a worker has worked a lifetime and save for retirement that they should expect to be able to maximize those savings. Mr. Allen can you deal with that rule . Before the Department Published the final e. S. G. Rule last year, the Employment Benefits Security Administration stated in march, 2021 the departments rationale for undertake agnew rule was based on private meetings in which unnamed parties expressed confusion about the 2020 rule and how to interpret them. This means the department based its decision to eskinned and revise the e. S. G. Rules behind closed doors. Why were these meetings held in private and not the public . Why were the attending names and dates of these meetings not disclosed . Secretary su thank you for that question, congressman. I am not aware of private meetings that were undisclosed. Mr. Allen can you get back with me and can you investigate that and have someone in your Organization Look into it and get back to me on why that happened . Secretary su i will, sir. Mr. Allen will you commit to providing the committee with a list of all attending names and dates of all the meetings regarding the november, 2022e. S. G. Rule making process within 30 days of this hearing . Secretary su thank you very much, congressman. Mr. Allen yes or no. Will you do that . Secretary su will i certainly what i said earlier about mr. Allen send me a letter why you cant do that and well deal with t we all know that keeping Retirement Plan costs low is an important part of ensuring as Many Americans as possible can achieve a secure retirement. Bolstering retirement accounts for americans your recent proposed amendments to longstanding convention would impose significant new costs on our retirement system and by extension American Workers and retirees. I have heard many concerns from stakeholders that the amendments to this policy will have negative impacts on workers, retirees, plan sponsors, unions, and Financial Institutions as the department done or will you commit to doing a detailed and realistic cost benefit analysis of these proposed amendments that reflect input from stakeholders . Will you do that . Secretary su our e. S. G. Rules did not require Financial Advisors to do anything in particular. What it did was give them the flexibility mr. Allen you dont do a cost benefit analysis . Do you know what it is . Secretary su i do. I guess im clarifying what the rule it wasnt a requirement. It was allowing Financial Advisors to take into account whatever factors in order to do what you said. Which i agree with we should maximize the retirement savings. Mr. Allen get back to me. Madam chair, i yield back. Chair foxx thank you, mr. Allen. Mrs. Mcbath, you are recognized for five minutes. Mrs. Mcbath thank you so much for taking the time to be with us here today and for your strong history of fighting to ensure every american has access to goodpaying jobs. One of the folks i hear most about when folks are coming to d. C. Or when im back home in georgia is about work force shortages. I hear that again and again and again. Whether you are building a hospital or trying to find nurses and support staff to take care of the patients who will be treated there, there is a serious disconnect between the good careers that are available in todays economy, and the skills that are needed to perform these jobs. Forces like the inside wire and telecommunications and construction electricians programs offered at the atlanta japc electrical center, in my district in georgia, they pay their students to learn. Instead of being forced to take out thousands of dollars in loans to better themselves through education, they are being paid a decent wage and given room to grow while they attain the skills necessary to move their families and country forward. Secretary su, its clear we need to be doing more to get americans into these careers so we can see the full benefit of our bipartisan investments to the infrastructure package and the chips and science act that were sign into law by President Biden. What has the d. O. L. Done under your leadership to encourage Work Force Development programs . You spoke most candidly about that. I want to give you more time to expand upon that. Are particular programs you would like to highlight for us at this time . Secretary su thank you very much, congresswoman, for that question. Also for highlighting other examples of how the work force system at its best does its work. I think one of the things that your example highlights, too, this relates to a question asked from the other side of the dais, how are we lifting up the ideas, innovation of local communities. Much of Work Force Development works best when it is placebased, meeting specific needs in communities. We have seen our job, the department of labor, as helping to support those innovations on the ground. Our sectorbased investments are very much about that. Its about supporting employers coming together in their communities with other work force partners to design Training Programs that are going to meet their needs. Its about working with employers to signal and forecast what the jobs that they are creating are going to be. That is the best and most effective way to activate the rest of the system. To get Community Colleges, to make sure that their curriculum and official are responsive to actual jobs that people can get after they complete any kind of program. I think that we build credibility in the system also when we say at the outset this program is going to lead to an actual job at the end of your training. So we have invested in sectorbased partnerships. We have been working to meet needs that are well documented now for industries. Many of them were devastated by the pandemic. So nursing, for example, i think every community has a need to build our nursing work force. They did heroic work. And we need to invest back in them. So the department of labor has an 80 million funding announcement for nurses. We also know, this is where understanding what the problem is is important that the issue is not having enough nurses, its enough clinical instructors so nurses can get these clinical hours that they need before they go to work. Our funding announcement is meant to incentivize both of those paths. Mrs. Mcbath i have one more question to ask. Registered positions are a key component of Work Force Development. They provide a clear path to goodpaying jobs. We know that. We know those work. What has the department done to encourage registered apprenticeships . So we are clear, registered apprenticeships are not just restricted to union jobs, am i correct . Secretary su 100 correct. In fact the majority of apprenticeships that we have supported that the department of labor registered apprenticeships in the last year have not been with union employers. We have been doing work in cybersecurity. That is a growing industry of good jobs. And one of the things we did is in a fourmonth period we were able to begin and support enough programs to put 16,000 new apprentices in the cybersecurity industry. Many of those, all of them private sector and many of them nonunion jobs. We also in trucking, talked about the supply chain challenges. In a threemonth period we have worked with over 700 employers and Industry Associations to set up trucking apprenticeships. What we have seen in doing that is that we can both solve chair foxx i sheu think you can submit those things in writing. Mr. Banks you are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Banks New York Times story april 17, 2023 headline says, Migrant Children were put to work the u. S. Ignored warnings. The white house and federal agencies were reportedly alerted to signs of children at risk. The warnings were ignored or missed. It goes on and says thousands of children have ended up in punishing jobs across the country working overnight in slaughterhouses, replacing roofs, operating machineries and factories. All in violation of child labor laws. A recent New York Times investigation showed. I think you know by now reportedly hundreds of thousands of illegal children have entered our work force and dangerous jobs. This story says that you and this administration have completely ignored what i believe is another example of the biggest humanitarian crisis in american history. What the heck are you doing about it . Secretary su thank you for that. We are talking about children doing jobs that are highly dangerous, its illegal for children to be working, we are not talking about a young person trying to get their First Experience working at the local convenience store. Learning how to show up on time and mr. Bangs this story mr. Banks this story says you ignored this issue. I know you said im right. Why is your department ignoring hundreds of thousands of children illegally in the workplace working in unsafe conditions. What are you doing about it . Secretary su i dont believe the story said the department of labor was not doing what we need to do. In fact i believe the stories came out because the department of labor was doing our job. We investigated a case that involved over 100 young people as young as 13 working in the conditions that you talked about. Mr. Banks the policies of this administration opening the border wide open has resulted in hundreds of thousands of Migrant Children entering the work force in america in unsafe conditions. In fact, one lawyer, linda, said that there are there were so many opportunities for the Biden Administration to connect these dots that no one ever did. The question is why didnt you do anything about it . You come before this committee today and tell me you agree with me. What are you doing about it . What is the all hands on deck moment in your department to take care of this issue . Secretary su i agree children doing that work is horrific. This is also related to our budget request which is to make sure that the department of labor has the resources to investigate all the cases. The reason that those cases wer mr. Banks the Trump Administration was night and day different on this than your administration. In fact, since the Biden Administration started we have seen a 69 increase in child labor violations because of the open border policies that have flooded this country. In this case is over reportedly over 250,000 kids coming into our country entering unsafe conditions. I am tkpwhraed are hear to tell us you agree with me. The New York Times even says that you are ignoring t let me go on because its incredible. Secretary mayorkas in april was asked before the Homeland Security committee in the senate about this catastrophe. You know what he stayed . He shifted the blame, he said its your fault this problem is your fault of the the department of labors fault. Is he right about that . Secretary su i agree children should not be doing these jobs. And i agree we should be doing everything we can it is our responsibility as the department of labor to crack down on child labor by doing investigations and making sure employers who profit from this labor are held accountable. That is what we did in the case. Its probably the one in that news article that is the case that helped to bring this issue to light. I think its a positive thing that we are talking about mr. Banks i would like to enter this story for the record. Secretary su the other thing mr. Banks i would like to enter this story for the record. My last question for you. How closely do you work with i. C. E. On issues like this . Secretary su the intraagency task force. Because of our leadership in investigating these cases. It includes our partners at health and human services. Mr. Banks is there a rule here for i. C. E. Working with the department of labor a role between your department and i. C. E. Secretary su this task force is to make sure we have an all hands on deck. Mr. Banks i would like to enter for a record in the memo the acting secretary drafted july 17, 2017, instructing in her previous role in the state of california for her employees to obstruct the law and not work with i. C. E. There is reason for us to believe today she would work with i. C. E. In her current role. This is a catastrophe unlike anything we have seen. A humanitarian catastrophe unlike anything we have seen in history because of this administration. I yield back. Chair foxx without objection. That would be entered into the record. Dr. Adams, you are recognized for five minutes. Ms. Adams thank you, madam chair. Madam secretary, thank you for being here to discuss the fiscal year 2024 budget. Good to see you again. According to one study by rand for every dollar spent on programs, taxpayers recruit 4 to 5 in three years after program completion. These come from the reduction recidivism and increased participation in the job market which leads to hiring and tax revenue. Could you tell me about d. O. L. s work in reTraining Programs. Secretary su thank you for that. You are right investments in individuals who have great promise and talent are important to make sure that they can contribute that. Help to fill the labor needs that we have. Our employment and Training Administration or e. T. A. , that administer the grants have made this a priority under my leadership and that of then secretary of labor marty walsh. We will continue to do so. To ensure that when we talk about building this economy from the bottom up and middle out and leave no one behind, it includes communities who are reentering. Ms. Adams im sure you are just as devastated as i am about the recent reports regarding exploited exploiting child labor and the apparent drastic increase in child labor violations. Corporations should not be making profits off the backs of children. Children dont belong in factories or working during hours where they should be studying. Spending time with their families. Or simply being children. The s. L. S. A. Provides critical protections for minors to ensure they are working in safe and appropriate environments. The case that the department of labor brought against a company resulting in paying the maximum fines available for employing at least 102 children in hazardous conditions. Its an association of just how seriously d. O. L. Takes this issue. Can you please describe the steps that you have taken to combat child labor. Secretary su yes. We take combating exploitive child labor seriously. In all the cases we have. We look to make sure there isnt exploitive child labor happening. We are not talking about a young person getting their first summer job. Trying to earn some money and learn what it means to be in the workplace. We are talking about workers working with toxic chemicals and heavy machinery and going to work at night after going to school during the day. We look for cases. We fight employers who engage in child labor. As you mentioned in that case, whichs is the subject of New York Times and other reports. We issued the maximum penalty. That penalty, the maximum penalty is set in law. By congress. We also appreciate the attention of this body to looking at whether those penalties need to be increased. We have been happy to partner with you to provide Technical Assistance on that. We currently have over 500 child labor investigations under way in addition to that one. We continue to field complaints and initiate investigations. In the last fiscal year the Department Found 835 companies it had investigated had employed children in violation of labor laws. This is a real issue. We are paying close attention to it. Thats one reason why there is growing attention to it. Im hopeful that between our work and our budget request and the public attention its getting that we might be able to make real strides in stopping the scourge that is very harmful. Not just to young people but employers who actually play by the rules. Ms. Adams let me ask you something about the Work Force Development and how we know funding has positively impacted Work Force Development. What has been the impact on people of color in this country . Secretary su thank you for that question. Its something that enjoys bipartisan support, the Work Force Innovation opportunity act, does fund work force programs. Many of the programs we talked about are avenues for advancing equity, for making sure every Single Community has the opportunity to participate in Training Programs and to get the goods jobs good jobs being created. Ms. Adams thank you. I yield back. Chair foxx thank you, dr. Adams. Mr. Owens, is recognized for five minutes. Mr. Owens i give my time to mr. Chair foxx you are recognized. Mr. Kiley you are the secretary of the labor and Work Force Development agency in california from 2019 to 221 . Secretary su correct. Mr. Kiley and the commissioner from 2011 to 2018. Secretary su correct. Mr. Kiley in your testimony in april you touted President Bidens economic record. The results speak for themselves. You cited the Unemployment Rate. Less than 4 for more than a year which is the close to the lowest in 50 years. Do you know how your home state of california is doing when it comes to the Unemployment Rate there versus other states . Secretary su thank you. I dont know what the current Unemployment Rate in california is. Mr. Kiley according to the bureau of labor statistics, they have the second highest Unemployment Rate in the nation. Does it sound right . Secretary su i dont know. I trust you have that krepbgt. Mr. Kiley if a low Unemployment Rate is a sign of good economic stewardship. What does it tell us about california . Secretary su thank you for that question. You are correct. That we share home state. And that i was the labor secretary for from 2019 and 2021, prior to that the labor commissioner where my job was to enforce labor mr. Kiley the question of the Unemployment Rate, was similar during your tenure. California was first, second, or third highest Unemployment Rate. You yourself said a low Unemployment Rate says we are doing a good skwrofpblt what does it mean that california has a high Unemployment Rate . Secretary su i think we would agree there is measures what makes a strong economy. There are lots of ways to look at obviously it makes sense for us to try to address high unemployment. Having people who are looking for jobs be able to do jobs. Having people who are in jobs be able to up skill and get the better jobs is a goal i know we share. Mr. Kiley you said in your testimony in april too many people still work fulltime yearround and live in poverty. According to the latest Census Bureau data, do you happen to know which state has the highest poverty rate in the country . Secretary su i dont know. Mr. Kiley it happens to be california. Do you know according to recent report from the bureau of Economic Analysis where california ranks when it came to net Earnings Growth . Secretary su i dont know. Mr. Kiley 50th. If our goal is to reduce unemployment, reduce poverty, and increase wages is california the best model given that it is the absolute worst in the country of the 50 states by all these measures . Secretary su i think there are lots of measures for how well the economy is doing. My understanding, i havent work there for two years, some measures including recovery from the pandemic, including decrease in poverty over the last two years. Recovering since the pandemic. That california has mr. Kiley these were the very measures you yourself cited in your own testimony. Your state of california where you led the Labor Department is doing the worst in the country. Lets move on to a law you had enforcing in california were you involved i know you werent in the hrao ur, but were you involving in the drafting of the bill including any conversations with the Interest Groups that helped draft it . Secretary su thank you. As i think has been established and as you know. I was never part of the california legislature. Mr. Kiley were you involved in the drafting . Secretary su dy not. Mr. Kiley were you involved in the drafting . Secretary su no. Mr. Kiley did you support the law . Secretary su my job as labor secretary was to enforce the law. Mr. Kiley did you ever express support for the bill . Secretary su i express the need tone force last passed by the legislature. Mr. Kiley did you express support for the bill at any time . Secretary su i know we are talking about whatdy in california. Mr. Kiley you may have. Do you think its a good law . 835 . Secretary su i think that 85 . Secretary su i think both my job now as the acting labor and the job that i had in california as the labor secretary and the labor commissioner to enforce laws passed mr. Kiley i asked if 85 is a good law . Secretary su i dont know what i dont tell me give me more what you mean by that. Mr. Kiley do you think it was a good law for the state . That it passed . Secretary su one of the things that i did in my role as labor secretary in california was create we reached out to employers and worked mr. Kiley i want to give you one last chance acting secretary su. Is 85 a good law, yes or no . Secretary su its an Important Role mr. Kiley yes or no. Secretary su its important to follow laws that are passed. Chair foxx we ask the witness answer truthfully. I recognize mr. Chicano for five minutes. Takano for five pheufpblts. Mr. Takano thank you. Great to sigh again. Proud to be among the members of the Asian Pacific american caucus that sent a letter to President Biden urging him to nominate you as labor secretary. I ask unanimous consent to enter that letter into the record. Chair foxx without objection. Mr. Takano i would like to highlight a letter sent this very morning led by the chair of the congressional Asian Pacific american caucus, the congressional hispanic caucus, and democratic womens caucus urging Senate Leadership to swiftly confirm this. The letter ended up with 71 signers. I ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record. Chair foxx without objection. Mr. Takano furthermore, the Los Angeles Area chamber of commerce has voiced their support for miss sus nomination. I ask unanimous consent for this letter to be entered into the record. Thank you. As you know we had a work force protection subcommittee hearing that addressed the Labor Departments proposed rule on the misclassification of workers as independent contractors. From what i understand no one objected to the proposed rule because it was so reasonable. Many business groups now expressing opposition to your nomination issued statements saying that your department was the department was taking with this rule was reasonable. First, does the proposed rule for the Biden Administration on misclassification adopted a. B. C. Test . Secretary su thank you for the support of k pack. The proposed independent contractor rule of the department of labor does not include the a. B. C. Test. Mr. Takano the proposed rule says on page 62,000. That the department continues to believe that legal limitations prevent the department from adopting the a. B. C. Rule. Or test. Is that correct . Secretary su it is correct we were very explicit that we could not as the department of labor apply the test. Mr. Takano the position of the department is you cannot adopt the a. B. C. Test unless Congress Passes a law enabling you to do that. Secretary su correct. Mr. Takano thank you. Do you believe the Constitutional Order of separation of power means the department may only implement rules that are consistent with the laws that Congress Passes. Secretary su yes. Mr. Takano instead of an a. B. C. Test the proposed rule implements the economic realities test, is that right . Secretary su correct. Mr. Takano thats consistent with decades of precedent under both and Republican Democratic administrations, is that right . Secretary su yes. Mr. Takano the d. O. L. Proposed rule is not the a. B. C. Test. International franchise asocial and lyft, two of the largest entities most vocal against the a. B. C. Test came out with their statement. Unequivocally stated the rule did not reclassify lyft drivers as employees and their Business Model would not be forced to change. The International Franchise association about d. O. L. s proposed rule expressed recognition that the a. B. C. Test does not apply. I ask unanimous consent for these statements to be entered into the record. Chair foxx without objection. Mr. At that cannee these very company themselves most vocal against the tests are expressing praise for the d. O. L. Proposed rule. Democrats are not the only ones praising this rule. I heard fear mongering from my colleagues, republican colleagues, about your role with 85 in california after it was passed by the state swhrao ur and signed by the governor. Acting secretary su, did you serve in the california state hrao ur . Secretary su dy not. Mr. Takano was the california state hrao ur the branch of the government that passed 85 . Secretary su yes, it was. Mr. Takano where were you when the state was passed . Secretary s ufpt as the california state labor secretary. Mr. Takano its outrageous and desperate my republican colleagues are firing baseless attacks. Trying to get your opinion about the law. Was it a good law or bad law. They are failing in their attempt to try and mischaracterize you. Acting secretary, you spent your whole life fighting to improve the lives of working people. As the daughter of immigrants, you represent the best of us and the story that your mother coming to the United States on a cargo ship because she could not afford a passenger ticket. Now her daughter is up for Senate Confirmation truly represents the American Dream. Im so proud of you. I appreciate your being with us today and look forward to you being confirmed. Secretary of labor. I yield back. Chair foxx thank you, mr. Takano. Im proud of you for getting the secretary to be able to say the word yes again. Mr. Smucker, you are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Smucker thank you, madam chair. Thank you for holding the hearing today. Acting secretary su, thank you for being here today as well. We have 10 million unfilled jobs in our economy today. Every Business Owner i talk to is the number one issue. I am sure you are aware of that. I have supported, believe we should be doing everything we can to connect people not participating in the work force with the Jobs Available today. One policy that i was particularly concerned by was the departments final rule in 2022 ending the industry recognized Apprenticeship Program. Which your department justified by saying it no longer believes the skills gap to be a major challenge facing the labor market. Why that comment . Why would the department be undermining the seriousness of the skills gap . What employers have you spoken to that indicated the shortage is not a major challenge. Secretary su thank you for that question. We have been working very closely with all stakeholders. Employers as well. As you say to meet the needs for skilled workers in jobs being created in every community in manufacturing and clean energy, in infrastructure and more. We are also very committed to outside of these Big Investments that this body and the president has made possible committed to helping to rebuild the work force. Like teachers. And health care workers. And i already mentioned truckers. Also in other jobs that historically have not had Apprenticeship Programs like cybersecurity. Thats all work we have been focused on over the last two years. When i served as deputy secretary t mr. Smucker could you address your opposition to the industry of recognized industry programs. Secretary su one of the things that we need to do and have been doing is to make it easier for employers who want to have a registered Apprenticeship Program to do so. We have done that. I talked about trucking earlier. It used to take months for employers who wanted to do a trucking apprenticeship to do one. Its a matter of days now. We have expanded teacher apprenticeships. What used to be in only two states in 2021 to 17 states across the country. These are registered apprenticeships which means they have the quality, the wage progression, all the benefits that make Apprenticeship Programs so good for both employers and for workers. We need to make it easier for employers who want to do that to do it. Mr. Smucker we should make it as easy as possible. That was a model that could potentially have worked well with your support. I do want to get to another issue. The president , President Biden, has said that he intends to be the most prounion president in history. Has pursued policies that benefit Union Workers which is fine except to the detriment of all other workers in some cases. For example, through regulations on federal procurement and provisions in federally assisted grant programs, the administration has promoted project labor agreements on construction projects. P. O. A. s limit the pool of qualified bidders to unionized contractors and union labor. Which increases cost. Any time you decrease supply you see higher costs. It also limits Job Opportunities for nonunion construction workers. You acting secretary have an obligation to support all American Workers regardless of their labor affiliation. Will you commit to opposing these exclusionary policies that harm the 88. 3 of construction workers who choose not to join a union . Secretary su certainly, congressman, commit to supporting and serving workers regardless of their union affiliation. Mr. Smucker would you support to not implementing budget labor agreements on any federal projects . Secretary su i think some of the project labor agreements are written into statute, into the bipartisan infrastructure law. That was passed by congress. I see my job as having full fidelity to the law. The law as you, this body, passes. The law as courts interpret them. I think there is also studies that demonstrate that project labor agreements decrease costs over time because it assures a Reliable Work force that is trained. And that the outcome fewer disruptions. The outcomes are more reliable. Mr. Smucker i think the studies show the opposite. We unfortunately are out of time. Would love to have your support to ensure that all workers, whether they have chosen to be part of union or not, and have access to these jobs that are available for federal projects. I think its important. Its certainly important in the area that i represent where i have seen workers excluded through these agreements. Chair foxx thank you, mr. Smucker. Mr. Desauliner, you are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Desaulnier thank you, madam chair. Acting secretary its delightful to see you. I want to tell you how proud i am of you. Your dignity and grace today just reconfirms, i can use that language, my history with you, your intelligence, your competency is on display here today. It would be a sad state for this country and congress if you are not confirmed given your qualifications and presence here today. Talk about california, i was not in the legislature when 85 was passed. I was a former chair of the Senate Labor Committee when we did much of the groundwork for that. When we were trying to work with the private sector. And somebody from the bay area we wanted to work with the tech industry. I understand what the proper classification was and not have people take advantage of that. I say this as a long time, 4r5 years, sphaus Business Owner who made hundreds of payrolls and respected my employees we were trying to get this right. I had to compete against employers who didnt pay by the rulings. Including hiring people illegally. We did work about that, holding employers who were flouting the laws. You were part of that discussion, accountable for hiring people who were not shouldnt have been hired. Who i had to compete with. I want to the numbers about unemployment, the Unemployment Rate in california is because of the tech industry. I would argue they were taking advantage under the guise of innovation and there is a correction right now. In the context of numbers, data from the u. S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, shows that california has the highest g. D. P. In the nation at around 3. 5 trillion. Apart from the decline during the early days of covid, californias economy only grew during your time as secretary of california labor. Isnt that right . Secretary su im not familiar with exactly with that. I trust that you have your facts correct. Mr. Desaulnier its right. We clearly didnt coordinate these questions. In fact, during your tenure as secretary of california from 2008 through 2020, total growth of employment outpaced national employment, total growth. Median household income, particularly important, given our inequality, increased faster over nearly 10 years than nationally. Real Gross Domestic Product in california rose by 30 to 2. 7 billion. Nearly double the amount by which national g. D. P. Rose during that same people period. An analysis by bloomberg news, quote, californias Gross Domestic Product increased 21 during the past five years. Dwarfing number two, new york. 14 . California, 21 . New york, at 14 . Number three, texas at 12 . Among the five largest economies, california outperforms the u. S. , japan, germany with a growth rate exceeded only by china. In california if it was a country would be the fourth largest economy in the world. We far exceed every other state in patents and innovation. This economic success has followed you to the white house. Since you have been at the department of labor the economy has added more jobs than during any other entire administration in recent memory. We are not even halfway through the first term. What policies of the Biden Administration have you led that have helped lift these levels of job creation and our national Unemployment Rate hitting historical lows . Secretary su thank you very much, congressman, for your question. As has been said here the last two years under the Biden Administration has seen record growth in multiple measures of a healthy economy. And defied multiple expectations. At the department of labor our role is incredibly important in a moment where we both have job growth and economic recovery on the one hand. And needing to connect people to good jobs. Employers to the workers they need. As well as to make sure every worker works in a healthy and safe environment and goes home safely at the end of the day and gets the wages they earned. Those are the fundamental responsibilities of the department of labor. Over the last two years, the deputy secretary working alongside marty walsh, we worked very hard to do all those things. To fulfill our mission. To make sure we were helping to rebuild the unemployment system coming out of the ashes of the pandemic. Making sure we were investing in innovative, sector specific Training Programs that are going to meet Employer Needs and meet worker needs. Expand the apprenticeships as i already mentioned. And working hand in hand with employers and workers to help to take advantage of these very historic investments that are being made to rebuild our economy. Mr. Desaulnier thank you. Chair foxx thank you, mr. Desaulnier. Mrs. Mcclain, you are recognized for five minutes. Mrs. Mcclain thank you for being here today. I have some pretty easy questions. Real simple you are driving the bus. You are the acting secretary of labor. I think its important for everyone to understand your thought process. Simply put, do you support the United States free market economy . Secretary su yes. Mrs. Mcclain thanks. Do you believe an american entrepreneur should have the ability to pursue their dreams and ambitions . Secretary su yes. Mrs. Mcclain good. Do you believe its the responsibility of the department of labor to make it easier for r orb more or more difficult for entrepreneurs to flourish . Secretary su i think it makes sense for the department of labor to help support entrepreneurs, people who want to use their innovation mrs. Mcclain ill take that as a yes. Highlight your record and try to understand then why President Biden thinks you are the best option as the next secretary of labor with yes on my last three questions. As the secretary of labor in california you oversaw the highly controversial a. B. 5 that reclassified every independent contractor, very entrepreneurial in spirit, in the state, and effectively killed off the gig economy in california. If you are confirmed as secretary of labor, will you demand that Congress Pass a similar bill to kill off independent contractors . Secretary su thank you for that question. I would dispute that the gig economy has been killed off in california. Mrs. Mcclain if you are confirmed as the secretary of labor, will you demand Congress Pass a similar bill to kill off independent contractor and independent contractor status . Secretary su i will not do. Mrs. Mcclain we are on the roll. Do you believe the death of the gig industry is a positive or negative to the economy . We might have a difference here. Secretary su thank you. I believe that we should support job growth, job creation, businesses who create jobs and make sure that we are both paving a highroad to an economy where whoever wants to work has a good job. Mid 8 class life. Has opportunities. I also believe part of nigh job to make sure we are enforcing labor laws so that everybody competes at a level playing field. And that some of the things we talked about today that we dont have exploitive child labor. Mrs. Mcclain last week the u. S. Supreme court ruled 81, on an 81 vote that organized labor cannot damage Employer Property during work action. 81. Do you agree that Union Members or any employees for that matter, have the right to damage the property of their employers . Secretary su no, i dont think there is a right to damage. Mrs. Mcclain in your written testimony to the Senate Health committee in april, you highlighted the fact you were heavily involved with the negotiations between the rail employers and their unionized employees. Are you truly proud of the work that you did on that . Secretary su i am. Mrs. Mcclain let me remind you, congress had to step in to prevent a national shut down of the rail system. In conclusion, i am concerned with your past actions and the rhetoric because we can say one thing but our actions have to follow our words. And thats whats important for the american people. I can see why there is a Bipartisan Group of senators who are opposed to your nomination because your actions dont match your words. Throughout your career you have shown a deep disdain for businesses and employers. And lets not forget that its th