Johnson and russ feingold. That is followed by joe heck and Catherine Cortez debating for the nevada u. S. Senate. Watch complete coverage on cspan listen on the cspan radio app. Donald trump says he is not pulling out of the president ial race despite calls by some to do just that after comments he made in the video were made public yesterday. The nominee said today that he had tremendous support and he wa would never withdraw. Well, other republicans continue to express disapproval. Kelly ayotte announced she will not be voting for mr. Trump. In a witten releas written release, she governor mike pence was scheduled to attend a conference today, but there are reports that he has canceled the appearance. It is taking place in speaker paul ryans district. We will take you there live at 3 30 eastern on cspan. The second president ial debate is sunday night in st. Louis, missouri. Watch live coverage at 7 30 eastern for a preview and then viewer reaction with calls, tweets, and comments. Watch live on cspan, watch live or ondemand using the desktop, phone, or tablet on cspan. Org. Listen live on your phone with the free cspan app. Ahead of tomorrows debate, we will now take a look back at the 1996 present shall debate between incumbent bill clinton and challenger, former senator bob dole. The format was a town hall meeting, much like we will see tomorrow night. And president e clinton. [applause] [applause] [applause] remember the first cue i am going to give is 6 00 straight up for silence and the networks were go on the air and one minute 15 minutes later, exactly one minutes and 15 minutes later i will do good evening and we will begin with the twominute Opening Statements and foreign business. This is what they call the awkward time. [laughter] we will be ready to go in just a couple of minutes. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] 30 seconds to silence. 30 seconds to 6 00. [laughter] i always have to remind oh , not for you all. 15 seconds to 6 00. 15. Then another minute and ok. It is 6 00. Let there be silence. I can see everyone of you out there, remember. Real. Onds or so tor there is realtime and Television Time and now we are in real time. 30 seconds. Lehrer good evening from the shiley theatre at the university of san diego, san diego, california. Im jim lehrer of the news hour on pbs. Welcome to this second 1996 president ial debate between senator bob dole, the republican nominee, and president bill clinton, the democratic nominee. It is sponsored by the commission on president ial debates. We will follow a townhall type format tonight. The questions over the next 90 minutes will come from 113 citizens of the greater san diego area. They were chosen in the past week by the Gallup Organization to represent a rough Cross Section of voters as to political views, age, gender and other factors. Each said he or she is undecided about this president ial race. They were told to come tonight with questions. Nobody from the Debate Commission or the two campaigns has any idea what those questions are. Neither do i. We will all be hearing them for the first time at the same time. I met with this group three hours ago and we spoke only about how it was going to work tonight. They are sitting in five sections. I will call on individuals at random, moving from one section to another with each new question, alternating the questions between the two candidates. My job is to keep things fair and the subjects as clear and as varied as possible. The rules, drawn by the campaigns, are basically the same as they were for the st. Petersburg debates; 90 secondanswers, 60 second rebuttals, 30second responses for each question. The candidates are not allowed to question each other directly. There will be twominute opening and closing statements. The order for this evening was set by coin toss. We begin now with senator dole and his opening statement. Senator dole. Dole thank you very much, jim. Let me first give you a sports update. Cardinals, 1, the zero, early on. I want to thank you and i want to thank everybody here tonight. I want to give a special thanks to my wife elizabeth, my daughter robin for their love and support, and thank the people who are listening and watching all over america. In 20 days, you will help decide who will lead this country into the next century. Its an awesome responsibility. And you must ask yourself, do you know enough about the candidates . You should know as much as possible about each of us. Sometimes the views have been distorted. Theres been millions and millions of dollars of negative advertising spent distorting my views, but i hope tonight you will get a better feel of who bob dole is and what hes all about. And i think first you should i should understand that the question on your mind is do i understand your problem . Would i understand it if it occurred to me, and i might just say im from a large family. I got lots of relatives and theyre good, average, middleclass, hardworking americans. They live all across the country. Theyre not all republicans. Maybe all but one. But in any event, i understand the problems. Whether its two parents working because one has to pay the taxes and one has to provide for the family, whether its a single parent who just barely pays the pressing bills or whether youre worried about an education for your children going to the best schools, or whether youre worried about safe playgrounds, drugfree schools, crimefree schools. This is what this election is all about. And hopefully tonight when we conclude this debate you will have a better understanding and the viewing and listening audience will have a better understanding. Thank you. Lehrer mr. President , two minutes, opening statement. Clinton i was going to applaud, too. Well, thank you, jim. And thanks to the people of san diego for giving us this opportunity to have another discussion about the decision we all face in front of people who will make the decision. Again, i will say i will do my best to make this a discussion of ideas and issues, not insults. What really matters is what happens to your future and what happens to our country as we stand on the brink of a new century, a time of extraordinary possibility. I have a simple philosophy that i tried to follow for the last four years do what creates opportunity for all, what reinforces responsibility from all of us, and what will help us build a community where everybodys got a role to play and a place at the table. Compared to four years ago, were clearly better off. Weve got ten and a half million more jobs, the deficits been reduced by 60 , incomes are rising for the first time in a decade, the crime rates, the welfare rolls are falling, were putting 100,000 more police on the street. 60,000 felons, fugitives and stalkers have been denied handguns. But that progress is only the beginning. What we really should focus on tonight is what we still have to do to help the American People make the most of this future thats out there. I think what really matters is what we can do to build strong families. Strong families need a Strong Economy. To me that means we have to go on and balance this budget while we protect medicare and medicaid and education and the environment. We should give a tax cut, targeted to child rearing and education, to buying a first home and paying for health care. We ought to help protect our kids from drugs and guns and gangs and tobacco. We ought to help move a Million People from welfare to work and we ought to create the finest Education System in the world where every 18yearold can go on to college and all of our younger children have great educational opportunities. If we do those things, we can build that bridge to the 21st century. Thats what i hope to get to talk about tonight. Thank you. Lehrer lets go now to the first question from this section for senator dole. Yes, maam. Yes. Ms. Mcafee hello, senator dole. Dole hi. Ms. Mcafee my name is shannon mcafee. Im a beginning educator in this country and i really think its important what children have to say. Theyre still very idealistic. And they everything they say comes from the heart. I have a quote for you from if i were president , compiled by peggy gavin. A sixth grader says, if i were president , i would think about Abraham Lincoln and George Washington and what they did to make our country great. We should unite the white and black people and people of all cultures. Democrats and republicans should unite also. We should all come together and think of the best ways to solve the economic problems of our country. I believe that when we are able to come together and stop fighting amongst ourselves we will get along a lot better. These are the ideals and morals that we are teach we are trying to teach our children in these days. Yet we dont seem to be practicing them in our government, in anything. If you are president , how will you begin to practice what we are preaching to our children, the future of our nation . Dole well, i would say first of all, i think, its a very good question. I appreciate the quote from the young man. Theres no doubt about it that many American People have lost their faith in government. They see scandals almost on a daily basis. They see ethical problems in the white house today. They see 900 fbi files, private person, being gathered up by somebody in the white house. Nobody knows who hired this man. So theres a great deal of cynicism out there. But ive always tried in whatever ive done is to bring people together. I said in my acceptance speech in san diego about two months ago that the exits are clearly marked. If you think the Republican Party is some place for you to come if youre narrow minded or bigoted or dont like certain people in america, the exits are clearly marked for you to walk out of as i stand here without compromise, because this is the party of lincoln. I think we have a real obligation, obviously public officials. Im no longer a public official. I left public life on june the 11th of this year. But it is very important. Young people are looking to us. Theyre looking to us for leadership. Theyre watching what we do, what we say, what we promise and what we finally deliver. And i would think, it seems to me that there are opportunities here. When im president of the United States, i will keep my word. My word is my bond. Lehrer mr. President. Clinton one of the reasons that i ran for president , sandy, is because not just children, a lot of grownups felt that way. And if you remember four years ago, we had not only rising unemployment, but a lot of rising cynicism. I had never worked in washington as an elected official. It seemed to me that most of the arguments were partisan, republican, democrat, left, right, liberal, conservative. Thats why i said tonight im for opportunity, responsibility , and community. And weve gotten some Real Progress in the last four years. Ive also done everything i could at every moment of division in this country, after oklahoma city, when these churches were burned, to bring people together and remind people that we are stronger because of our diversity. We have to respect one another. You mentioned washington and lincoln. They were president s at historic times. This is an historic time. Its important we go beyond those old partisan arguments and focus on people and their future. When we do that, instead of shutting the government down over a partisan fight over the budget, were a better country and thats why were making progress now. Lehrer senator. Dole well, bringing people together, again, is obviously a responsibility we all have. I know you do it. Everybody here does it. You do a lot of things nobody knows about. I have a Little Foundation for the disabled called the dole foundation. Weve raised about 10 million. We dont talk about it. We try to help people with disabilities. Bring them back into the mainstream of public life. So it seems to me that theres also a public trust. When youre the president of the United States, you have a public trust and you have to keep that public trust, as George Washington, as Abraham Lincoln did. And i think now that trust is being violated and it seems to me we ought to face up to it, and the president ought to say tonight that hes not going to pardon anybody that he was involved in business with who might implicate him later on. Lehrer all right. The next question from this section right here. Right there in the middle, sir. Yes, sir. Dr. Berkley dr. Robert n. Berkley. Im a cardiologist from fallbrook, california. Mr. President , i would like to know if you would please explain your plans for in a substantive fashion for addressing the problems with the Health Care System in our country. Clinton i will. First of all, let me say what we have done. In the last four years weve worked hard to promote more competition to bring down the rate of inflation in Health Care Costs without eroding health care quality. The government pays for medicare and medicaid, as you know, and thats very important. Secondly, weve added a million more children to the ranks of the insured through the Medicaid Program. We have protected 25 Million People through the passage of the kennedykassebaum bill that says you can use your Health Insurance if you change jobs or someone in your family has been sick. We just recently ended those driveby deliveries saying people cant be kicked out of the hospital by Insurance Companies when theyve just had babies. So this is, thats a good start. In the next four years, i want to focus on the following things. Number one, add another million children to the insured ranks through the Medicaid Program. Number two, keep working with the states, as we are now, to add 2. 2 million more people to the insurance system. Number three, cover people who are between jobs for up to six months. That could protect 3 million families, 700,000 kids. Number four, make sure we protect the integrity with the Medicare Program and Medicaid Program and not do anything in cutting costs which would cause hundreds of hospitals to close which could have been the case if the 270 billion medicare cut that i vetoed, had been enacted in the law. Dole well, first, let me say there you go again, mr. President , talking about a medicare cut. I have heard you say this time after time. I have heard you say on one tv appearance, the media made me do it. You were trying to defend your cut which was not a cut either, reduction in the growth of spending. We have always had at least 7 and youve said publicly that its now three times the rate of inflation. We ought to cut the growth to twice the rate of inflation. Its about where we are now. So lets stop talking about cutting medicare. In my economic plan we increase it 39 . Dont forget what he tried to do with health care. 17 new taxes, spend 1. 5 trillion, 50 new bureaucracies. Can you believe that . You couldnt even have been a cardiologist because he had quotas. Youre a cardiologist, it wouldnt affect you. But if somebody wanted to be a cardiologist, ten years from now, youd have to be certain you complied with some of the rules in this extreme medical plan the government was going to take over for all americans. There are things we can do like the kassebaum bill. We changed many provisions i authored, cover preexisting conditions, portability, and there are other things we can do. We still need to cover about 20 Million People and a lot of children. Clinton i dont have time in 30 seconds to respond to fix all that, but let me just say the American Hospital association said that the budget i vetoed could have closed 700 hospitals. Not me. On a perperson basis, it did cut way below the rate of inflation in medical costs. But the important thing is what are we going to do now . We need to help people who are between jobs. We need to cover more kids. We need to provide more Preventative Care. My balanced budget covers mammograms for ladies, women on medicare and also gives respite care to the millionplus families with have someone with alzheimers. These things are paid for in the balanced budget plan. Itll move us forward. Lehrer next question is for senator dole from here. Yes, sir. Mr. Milligan senator dole, my name is jason milligan, active duty military and Small Business owner and my question is, what is your position on closing the gap between military and civilian pay scales . Dole jason, i appreciate that very much, being a former military man myself. You know, we have 17,000 men and women today wearing our uniform that receive food stamps. It shouldnt happen in america. We have men and women wearing our uniform in substandard housing. It shouldnt happen in america. And its time we take a look at the pay scales. Did get a 3 increase this year, but thats not enough. If were going to ask young men and young women to protect us and defend us around the world and weve had more deployments under this administration than any time in history. Fifty times we deployed troops around the world. Every time you do that you take a risk. Somebody, you know, maybe your son, maybe your grandson, maybe somebody else, but i think anybody who wears a uniform is a great american. Remember vietnam . Remember when people almost used to walk across the street rather than have a contact with somebody who was in vietnam . Thats all behind us now, and it should be behind us, and the forgotten war, the korean war, but i guess i can just answer you very plainly, jason. Thank you for doing what youre doing. America owes you a debt of gratitude. Clinton may i ask you a question . What service are you in . Mr. Milligan im in the United States navy, sir. Clinton and what kind of Small Business do you have . Mr. Milligan i have an amway business. Clinton good for you. Let me say, if senator dole mentioned this, i just signed a bill that we got through congress to increase the amount of pay increase we could give for military personnel and to make sure the pay increase this year was above the rate of inflation. I also presented to the congress and they adopted a large package of qualityoflife improvements, which are very important. I spent a lot of time talking to military families as well as military members all over the world and in bases all across the United States, and i became convinced after talking to the families and the personnel in uniform that we needed to not only have the pay raise but we needed to invest more in child care, housing, and other things to support families, especially when there are longer deployments because of the downsizing of the military. So i, were going to do better, and well do better still, but this is a commitment i think that all americans share without regard to party. Dole i dont disagree with anything that the president said, except he waited four years to do these things, and my view is it ought to be, it will be done on day 1. Well start working on day 1 in the dolekemp administration. This is important. We only have ten divisions now. We used to have 18. We had 25 fighter wings. Were down to 13. We had 536 ships. Were down to 336 ships. I mean, weve cut defense spending too much in the first place. The president told you in 1992 he would cut it 67 billion. He cut it 112 billion so were right on the edge right now. But the last thing we ought to do is make those who wear the uniforms sacrifice. Lehrer next question here for president clinton. Yes, maam, here on the front row. Ms. Kelly president clinton, my name is cecily kelly. Yesterday, Yassir Arafat said in palestine that he thinks the key to success in the middle east is the commitment of americans. Would you as president send american troops to israel or the west bank as peacekeepers . Clinton let me just take two seconds of my time because im the commanderinchief to respond to one thing that was said. I propose to spend 1. 6 on defense between now and the year 2002 and there is less than 1 difference between my budget and the republican budget on defense. Now, on the middle east, as you know, i worked very hard for peace in the middle east. The agreement between the palestinians and the israelis was signed at the white house and the agreement the peace treaty with jordan, i was i went to jordan to sign that to be there. But and i think the United States can do whatever we reasonably can. I can say this i do not believe Yassir Arafat wants us to send troops to the west bank. We have never been asked to send troops to the west bank. I saw the agreement that Prime Minister rabin and Yassir Arafat signed on the west bank. It had 26 separate maps they had to sign, literally thousands of delineations of who would do what on the west bank, and i believe if the parties will get together and in a goodfaith manner make that agreement, that theyll be able to do it if we cannot impose a peace on the middle east. My position has always been that the job of the United States was to minimize the risks of peace. You know, if they asked me to be part of some Monitoring Force as we are in the sinai and have been since 1978 to monitor the peace between egypt and israel, frankly, i would have to think about it. I would have to see what they wanted to do, but i dont believe that will be the request. I think what mr. Arafat wants us to do is to make sure that everybody honors the agreements theyve already made. Thats why i brought the leaders to washington a few days ago. I think they will and i think well get there. Dont be too discouraged. Dole let me, jason, come back to you a minute because there is a big difference in the defense budget. We had 7 billion this year and 10 billion more than the president. He puts his money in the outyears, and even if he were reelected, hed be gone before anything would happen, and nothing is going to happen. We dont have modernization now. If we dont build more b2 bombers in california and we lost about 500,000 jobs out in california because of this devastation, these big, big cuts. We had to make cuts. We didnt have the cuts the president promised hed make and then he doubled. I think we need to go back and take a look. Were increasing defense reasonably not too much, but we are increasing defense some because we want to be prepared in case somebody here gets called up, jason. I would say i didnt hear what Yassir Arafat had to say, but i dont want to you know, i think Foreign Policy, i want to be very careful about, and im not here to argue about the president with some ongoing Foreign Policy matter. What i want the president to do, and i think he may have done it, his last statement, call for an unconditional end of the violence and have the parties keep on talking as they should talk and have a resolution. The last thing we want to do is commit more forces anywhere. But lets sort of keep this out of politics because its pretty dicey right now. Clinton when the change of government occurred in israel, the people of israel were saying we dont want to abandon the peace process. We want more security. Then a lot of mutual distrust developed. A lot of things happened which maybe shouldnt have happened. When i asked Yassir Arafat and Prime Minister netanyahu to come to washington and got them together and they talked alone for three hours, i was convinced that they had to have a chance to make that peace. Again, id say if they asked us to play some reasonable role, i dont know how i would respond. It would depend entirely on what they asked us to do, but the real secret there is for them to abide by the agreements theyve made and find a way to trust each other, and theyre going to have to spend some time and trust each other. Prime minister rabin gave his life believing that that trust could be materialized and i still think it can be. Lehrer alright, next question from this section and it is for senator dole. Back in the back. Yes, sir, right there. Yes sir. Mr. Delgado senator dole, oscar delgado. Lehrer oscar. Mr. Delgado exsmoker for 30 years. About 30 years ago i was a packplus a day man. Okay . You mentioned a statement you said some time ago that you didnt think nicotine was addictive. Would you care to are you Still Holding to that statement, or do you wish to recant or explain yourself . Dole oh, thats very easy. My record going back to 1965 in the congress, the first vote we had was whether or not you should put a little notice on cigarettes. They may be danger i voted i for everything since that time. In fact, 1992 we had a bill come before us that all the states had to comply or theyre going to lose certain money. We sent it to the Clinton Administration for implementation and they waited three and a half years. And during that period about 3,000 young kids every day started smoking. So you add it up. Thats about three million. Not until again in 1996 i dont want anybody to smoke. My brother probably died partly because of cigarettes. I was asked a technical question. Are they addictive . Maybe they they probably are addictive. I dont know. Im not a doctor. You shouldnt smoke. You ought to be glad you quit, oscar, 30 years. And it seems to me what we need to do is to talk about not only tobacco but drugs, because drug use between 12 and 17yearolds has doubled in this administration in the last 44 months. Marijuana use is up 141 . Cocaine use up 160 . Theyre your kids. Its all happening in this administration because they cut funding and they cut interdiction. When im president of the United States, were going to use the National Guard and whatever sources we need to stop some of the drugs coming into america. If you stop the drugs, nobody is going to use the drugs so dont smoke, dont drink, dont use drugs. Just dont do it. Clinton oscar, the question of what the federal government should do to limit the access of tobacco to young people is one of the biggest differences between senator dole and me. We did propose a regulation six months after i became president under the law he mentioned. It simply says all these states it made it illegal for kids to smoke. Now they have to try harder if they want to keep getting federal funds. Then we took comments, as we always do, and there were tens of thousands of comments as to how we ought to do it. Thats what drug it out. Meanwhile, we started the also in 1993 to look into whether cigarettes were addictive enough for the federal food and Drug Administration to ban the ability of Cigarette Companies to advertise, market and distribute their products to our kids. No president had ever taken on the tobacco lobby before. I did. Senator dole opposed me. He went down and made a speech to people who were on his side saying that i did the wrong thing. I think i did the right thing. On drugs, i have repeatedly said drugs are wrong and illegal and can kill you. We have strengthened enforcement and everybody in san diego knows we strengthened control of the border. We have done a lot more and i hope we get a chance to talk about it. Dole well, they also know if they live in san diego, mr. President , if youre caught with 125 pounds of marijuana or less, you go back to mexico. Youre not prosecuted. You have a u. S. Attorney here that sends them back home, so i think thats pretty important. Thats a lot of marijuana. Thats a big supply. But dont get into this smoke screen here oscar. The president in the Election Year decided i ought to do something, i havent done anything on drugs. Ive been awol for 44 months, so lets take on smoking, see they havent even done it. They havent said whats going to happen, whether theyre going to have it declared addictive. Once its a drug, does it apply only to teenagers or everybody in america . Nobody should smoke, young or old, but particularly young people should not smoke, but my record is there. Its been there. Ive voted eight, ten times since 1965. Lehrer next question is for president clinton. It comes from right here. Yes, sir. Mr. Fleck president clinton, my name is jack fleck. Im retired air force pilot. Mr. Fleck president clinton, my name is jack fleck. Im retired air force pilot. Sir, its officially forecast that our annual medicare and Social Security deficits are measured in the trillions of dollars next century. Depending on who you listen to, Social Security will be 2020 or 2030. I feel this is grossly unfair, especially to our Younger Generation who are losing faith in the system. My question is this assuming you agree that our entitlement programs are on an unsustainable course, what specific reforms do you propose . President clinton first of all, there are two different things. Social security and medicare are entirely different in terms of the financial stabilities. Lets talk about them separately. Social security is stable until, as you pointed out, at least the third decade of the next century. But wed like to have a Social Security fund that has about 70 years of life instead of about 30 years of life. What we have to do is simply to make some adjustments to take account of the fact that the baby boomers, people like me, are bigger in number than the people that went just before us and the people that come just after us. And i think what well plainly do is what we did in 1983 when senator dole served, and this is something i think he did a good job on when he served on the Social Security commission and they made some modest changes in Social Security to make sure that it would be alive and well into the 21st century. And we will do that. Its obvious that there are certain things that have to be done and there are 50 or 60 different options, and a Bipartisan Commission to take it out of politics, will make recommendations and build support for the people. Medicare is different. Medicare needs help now. I have proposed a budget which would put ten years on the life of Medicare Trust fund. Thats more than its had a lot of the time in the last years. It would save a lot of money through more managed care, but giving more options, more Preventative Care and lowering the inflation rate and the prices were paying providers without having the kind of big premium increases and outofpocket costs that the budget i vetoed would provide. Then, that would give us ten years to do with medicare what were going to do with Social Security. To save it when the baby boomers have a Bipartisan Group look at what we have to do to save it when the baby boomers retire. But now we can, we ought to pass this budget now and put ten years on it right away so no one has to worry about it. Senator dole well again, if youre somebody thinking about the future, i think its fair to say that itll be well work it out. This is a political year, and the president is playing politics with medicare. After this year is over, well resolve it just as we did with Social Security in 1983. Its a nonpartisan commission. Ronald reagan got together with tip oneill and howard baker, two republicans and one democrat. They appointed a commission i was on that commission. We resolved, we rescued Social Security. We suggested i think it has been over a year ago now we do the same with medicare, and the white house called it a gimmick. Now last week i guess it was Donna Shalala said well well cut medicare a hundred billion and appoint a commission. It will probably have to be done by a commission. Take it out of politics. I think if i were a Senior Citizen i would be a little fed up with all these ads scaring seniors, scaring veterans and scaring students about education. When you dont have any ideas, you dont have any agenda, and all you have is fear, thats all you can use. We have ideas in the dolekemp campaign, and we will rescue medicare as we did Social Security. Jim lehrer their idea was to president clinton their idea was to have the poorest seniors in the country pay more this year. Their idea was a budget that the that the American Hospital association said could close 700 hospitals. Their idea was to charge everybody more outofpocket costs in their budget that i vetoed. Not in an Election Year, sir. I told them in early 1995. Senator dole said 30 years ago he was one of 12 people who voted against medicare and he was proud of it. A year ago he said, i was right then. I knew it wouldnt work. American seniors have the highest Life Expectancy in the year. We need to reform it. Not wreck it. Jim lehrer next question from here for senator dole. Yes, maam. Right here. Yes. Ms. Gonzalez senator dole, my name is susan gonzalez. And i would like to know what you are what would be your first step in reforming welfare . Senator dole well, weve taken the first step. Took it three steps, twice we sent welfare reform to the president and he vetoed it. On the third time we sent welfare reform to the president , he signed it but announced he would change it next year, and the Vice President said they were going to do Something Else through the line item veto which ive never understood, but thats sort of inside baseball. What we need to do is make certain we try to return people to work. And im standing here as someone who, a long time ago, as the county attorney in russell, kansas, one of our jobs every month was go through all the welfare checks and sign them. And three of those checks were my grandparents. So, i know what its like to have to look welfare headon. Obviously, some people are going to need help. This is the United States of america. Youre not going to go without food and youre not going to go without medical care. This is america. But, at the same time, if you want to get off medicare, get back in the mainstream, were going to provide jobs. Were going to say you have a fiveyear limit. You can be on welfare. Youve got two years to look for a job. We provided more money for daycare in the bill that passed the senate, was vetoed, then it came back and the president signed pretty much the same bill. But this is an important issue. I dont think we ought to be giving welfare payments to Illegal Immigrants. It puts a heavy burden on a state like except for emergencies. It puts a heavy burden on a state like california. It costs california taxpayers 3 billion a year. Jim lehrer president clinton . Senator dole let me get out of your way here. Jim lehrer its illegal right now and has been for years for its illegalnton right now and has been for years for Illegal Immigrants to get welfare benefits. Let me say that this is one of the most important issues in the world to me. I started working on welfare reform in 1980 because i was sick of seeing people trapped in a system that was physically isolating them and making their kids more vulnerable to get in trouble. So, ive been working on it when i was a governor for a long time. When i became president , i used the authority i had in this law to get out from certain federal rules to help states move people to work. We reduced the welfare rolls by 2 million already. Now, ive got a plan with this new welfare reform law to work with the private sector, to give employees specific tax incentives to hire people off welfare, and to do some other things which will create more jobs in the private sector, at least a million, and move more people from welfare to work. Its very important. And i hope we get a chance to talk about this more. Theres not a more important issue. I still remember a woman that i met 10 years ago who said she wanted to get off welfare so her kids could tell, give an answer when they say, what does your mother do for a job . I met that woman again. Shes got four kids. Ones got a good job, ones studying to be a doctor. Ones in technical school, ones an honor student in high school. I want to make more people like that woman, lily harden, so ive got a plan to do it, and its just beginning. Well, another thing we can do we talk about growth. Weve got a great economic package which i hope we will discuss later. Acrosstheboard tax cut. Child credits. 500 per child under 18. Reduce the Capital Gains rate. Create more jobs and opportunities for people on and off welfare. We have other provisions. Less litigation. The trial lawyers, big supporters of the president. The trial lawyers, of course they like lawsuits, so every time they have a bill that they want vetoed, the president vetoes it for them. Weve got to understand in america that weve got to have growth, create more jobs and more opportunities in the private sector. The president takes credit for all these people off welfare. The governors did that. Federal government doesnt do that. And the government doesnt create jobs. Theyre created in the private sector. Jim lehrer this section, question . Yes maam. On the back row. This is for the president. Ms. Johnson mr. President , my name is Pamela Johnson and im a landlord. My question is, does your party have any future plans to reduce the Capital Gains tax, especially for retired americans . President clinton first of all, we have a big plan to reduce the Capital Gains tax when people sell their homes. Part of my tax package which is paid for in my balanced budget plan would exempt up to half a Million Dollars in gains from people when they sell their homes, which i think is the biggest Capital Gains benefit we could give to most ordinary americans. We also have Capital Gains now for people that invest in new Small Businesses and hold the investment for five years. It was part of our other economic plan. And these are things i think that will go a long way toward helping america building a stronger economy and a better tax system. I think the most important thing to emphasize, though, is that we also have to help people in other ways to build a Strong Economy and we cant have any tax cut thats not paid for. One of the big differences between senator dole and myself is that i told you how im going to pay for every penny of the tax cuts i recommend and weve worked hard to bring this deficit down and thats helped people in the real estate business because the Interest Rates are lower. Weve got Home Ownership at a 15year high. Weve got this country going in the right direction. So, we can have a tax cut but my priority would be to help the families who need it with child rearing and education and buying a firsttime home and helping for Health Care Costs. So, from your business, helping in buying a firsttime home, exempting the Capital Gains on the sale of the home would be the most important things that you asked about. Thank you, pamela. Jim lehrer senator dole . Senator dole pam, what the president didnt tell you is all his tax cuts expire the year 2000, but these increases go on forever. Thats the liberal approach. You know, give you a little tax cut, give you a couple of years, then make the tax increases go on forever. So, the net tax increase in his plans somewhere between 6080 billion. We have in the dolekemp economic plan, unless unless your homes worth over 500,000. And if it is, i appreciate it and congratulate you. But in any event, no tax. Its a good idea, they saw it, they picked it up and put it in theirs, but its olny temporary. Only temporary. Ours are permanent, ours is a good plan. Create jobs and opportunities. Capital gains rate, cut it in to 14 . T it 28 7 trillion in assets locked up in america. If we cut the Capital Gains rate, im told everyday, i had a letter from a former constituent in kansas saying i want to sell property in california, put it in my business in kansas, i cant, because the Capital Gains rates too high. We need to get the economy going. Thatll help Social Security. Thatll create more jobs. Thatll help people who want to get off welfare. Its the american way. President clinton before senator dole left the senate, he and mr. Gingrich also were recommending that we pass these tax cuts only insofar as we could pay for them. We all assume that the tax cuts will be permanent. But we have to prove we can pay for them. After he left the senate, we abandoned that. Thats why most experts say that this tax scheme will blow a huge hole in the deficit, raise Interest Rates and weaken the economy and that will take away all the benefits of the tax cut with a weaker economy. Thats why we have to balance the budget, and i will tell you how im going to pay for anything i promise you, line by line. You should expect that from both of us. Jim lehrer all right. The next question is for senator dole. Yes, maam. Right there. Ms. Naudin my name is melissa naudin. Im a thirdyear student at uc, san diego. I just want to say its a great honor representing the voices of america. My voice, my question is concerning you, mr. Dole. All the controversy regarding your age. How do you feel you can respond to young voices of America Today and tomorrow . Senator dole well, i think age is very you know, wisdom comes from age, experience and intelligence. And if you have some of each and i have some age, some experience and some intelligence that adds up to wisdom. I think it also is a strength. Its an advantage. And i have a lot of young people work in my office, work in my campaign. This is about america. This is about, somebody said earlier, one of the first questions, were together. Its one america, one nation. Im looking at our economic plan because im concerned about the future for young people. Im looking about drugs. The president has been awol for four years. Im looking about crime. Hell claim credit now for crime going down, but it happens because mayors and governors and others have brought crime down. Rudy giuliani, mayor of new york, brought crime down 25 just in new york city. Of course, the president will take credit for that. My view is we want to find jobs and opportunities and education. This year, the Republican Congress, as far as student 24 billion tom 36 billion over the next six years. A 50 increase. The highest appropriation. 6 billion for pell grants, very, very important. We also raised the amount of each pell grant. In our economic plan, the 500 child credit can be used for young people, rolled over and over and over, you, of course not this age, but if you have a child two years old, 7 interest would be worth about 18,000 by the time that child was ready for college. President clinton i can only tell you that i dont think senator dole is too old to be president. Its the age of his ideas that i question. Youre almost not old enough to remember this. But we tried this before, promising people an Election Year tax cut thats not paid for. Senator dole you tried it last time you ran. President clinton tell him you can have everything you got. Let me just say this. Did you hear him say that Congress Just voted to increase Student Loans and scholarships . They did after he left. The last budget he led cut pell grants, cut Student Loans. I vetoed it when they shut the government down. My plan would give students a dollarfordollar reduction for the cost of a Typical Community college tuition. A 10,000 deduction a year for the cost of college tuition. We let families save in an ira, withdraw tax free to pay for the cost of education and its all paid for. My whole administration is about your future. Its about what th21e st century 21st century is going to be like for you. I hope you will look at the ideas in it. Thank you. Senator dole when you dont have any ideas, i guess you say the other persons ideas are old. As i said earlier, they dont have any ideas. Their ideas is to raise taxes and spend more money. Thats the liberal philosophy. Thats what you like, youve got a perfect candidate. President clinton came to california in 1992. He said the centerpiece in my first four years is going to be a middle class tax cut. Now, all you got that tax cut, congratulations. Because you got a big tax increase. You got a 265 billion tax increase. And he stands here and says politicians who make promises like that ought to be ignored. Well, he made the promise. I keep my word, and you will have a tax cut. It will help you in whatever youre going to do in the next few years. Thank you. Jim lehrer next question is for president clinton and its from yes, maam. Yes. Ms. Sanders hello. My name is tressia sanders. And my question is, do you feel that america has grown enough and has educated itself enough to totally cut out affirmative action . President clinton no, maam, i dont. I am against quotas. Im against giving anybody any kind of preference for something theyre not qualified for. But because i still believe that there is some discrimination and that not everybody has an opportunity to prove theyre qualified, i favor the right kind of affirmative action. Ive done more to eliminate affirmative action programs i didnt think were fair and tighten others up than my predecessors have, since affirmative actions been around. But i have also worked hard to give people a chance to prove that they are qualified. Let me just give you some examples. Weve doubled the number of loans from the Small Business administration, tripled the number of loans to Women Business people, no one unqualified, everybody had to meet the standards. Weve opened 260,000 new jobs in the military to women since ive been president. But the joint chiefs say were stronger and more confident and solid than ever. Let me give you another example of what i mean. To me, affirmative action is making that extra effort. Its sort of like what senator dole did when he sponsored the americans with disabilities act and said to certain stores, okay, you have to make it accessible to people in wheelchairs. We werent guaranteeing anything, anybody anything except the chance to prove they were qualified, the chance to prove that they could do it. And thats why i must say i agree with general colin powell that were not there yet. We ought to keep making those extra effort affirmative action programs, the law and the policy of the land. Jim lehrer senator dole . Senator dole well, we may not be there yet but were not going to get there by giving preferences and quotas. I supported that route for some time and again i think it gets back to experience. A little experience, a little age, a little intelligence. And i noted that nobody was really benefitting except a very small group at the top. The average person wasnt benefitting. People who had the money were benefiting. People who got all the jobs were benefiting. It seems to me that we ought to support the california civil rights initiative. It ought to be not based on gender or ethnicity or color. Or disability. Im disabled. I shouldnt have a preference. I would like to have one in this race, come to think of it, but i dont get one. [laughter] maybe we can work that out. I get a 10point spot. This is america. No discrimination. Discrimination ought to be punished but there ought to be equal opportunity. We ought to reach out, make certain everybody has a chance to participate. Equal opportunity. But we cannot guarantee equal results in america. Thats not how america became the greatest country on the face of the earth. President clinton i have never supported quotas. Ive always been against them. I dont favor equal results, but i do favor making sure everybody has a chance to prove theyre competent. The reason i have opposed that initiative is because im afraid it will end those extra effort programs. Again i say, think of the americans with disabilities act. Make an effort to put a ramp up there so someone in a wheelchair can get up. You dont guarantee they get the job. You guarantee they have a chance to prove theyre competent. And, as i said, this is not a partisan thing with me. General colin powell said the same thing, he fears the initiative would take away the extra effort programs. No preferences to unqualified people, no quotas, but dont give up on making an extra effort until youre sure everybody has a chance to prove theyre qualified. Jim lehrer all right. The next question is for senator dole and it comes from this section right here. The back row there in the blue shirt. Yes, sir. Mr. David my names tim david. Im a mechanical engineer. Senator dole, how do you reduce taxes and balance the budget . Well im glad you asked. Whats your first name . [laughter] mr. David tim. Senator dole i first want to say the president didnt quite give you all of the stuff on the quotas, because the Justice Department had what we called the piscataway case up in new jersey. Its pretty clear that was a quota case, and just because one teacher was white and one black and they had the same qualifications, you know they decided who would stay there. It shouldnt be that way. Now, the president can say he wants to mend it, not end it. There are 168 federal programs that allow quotas. He ended one. Now, this economic package, tim, im glad you asked, because you look like the type that might be 15 to benefit from a across the board tax cut and 500 per child tax credit. You know, estate tax relief which youre not interested in right now, but Capital Gains rate reduction. If youre taking care of an elderly parent, you get a 1,000 deduction. We think thats very important because a lot of people take care of their parents. How do we pay for it . You can have a constitutional amendment to balance the budget, which the president opposed and defeated. He twisted arms and got six democrats to vote with him and lost by one vote. Were going to balance the budget, by the year 2000 the president wants to spend 20 more in the next six years, and 14 more and get that 6 back to the people. Remember, its your money; its. Its not his money. And its not my money. Its your money. And you shouldnt have to apologize for wanting to keep all you can of it. But he ought to apologize for wanting to take more and more. He wants to give you sort of a government tax cut, which really doesnt mean anything. President clinton you know, one of the responsibilities of growing older, it seems to me, is being able to tell people something they may not want to hear just because its true. When they had a 250 billion tax scheme, that is half the size of this one. This one is 550 billion. They passed the budget. They have 270 billion in medicare cuts the First Education cuts in history, cut Environmental Enforcement by 25 , took away the guarantee of quality standards in nursing homes, took away the guarantee of health care for folks with disabilities. Dont take my word for this. The economist magazine polled lots of economists, seven nobel Prize Winners who said if this tax scheme passes, it will require huge cuts, 40 percent, , in the environment and Law Enforcement and education. It will require bigger cuts in medicare than i vetoed last time. My targeted tax cut is for childrearing, buying a firsttime home, paying for Health Care Costs. And its paid for, and ill tell you how ill pay for it. He wont tell you because he cant. Senator dole your targeted tax cut, mr. President , never hits anybody. Thats the problem with it. Nobody ever gets it. But i must say im a little offended by this word scheme. You talked about it last time, you talked about a risky scheme and Vice President gore repeated 10 times in st. Petersburg. If i have anything in politics, its my word. My colleagues, democrats and republicans, will tell you that bob dole kept his word. Im going to keep my word to you. Im going to keep my word to the American People. Were going to tax cut taxes and balance the budget. Were not going to touch medicare. Its going to grow 39 , and Social Security is going to grow 34 . The president doesnt have any ideas so hes out trashing ours. This isnt going to blow a hole in the deficit. He promised you a tax cut in 1992, and if you got one, you ought to vote for him. Jim lehrer the next question is for the president. Yes, sir, right there. Mr. Burns my name is duane burns. Im a martial arts instructor and a father. Mr. President , could you outline any plans you have to expand the family leave act . President clinton thank you. Well, first let me say that i signed the family leave act. It was my very first bill, and im very proud of icause it symbolizes what i think we ought to be doing. I dont take credit for all the good things that have happened in america, but i take credit for what ive tried to do to work with others to make good things happen. Most important, good things that happen in america happen in families. Just about every family i know, the main concern is how am i going to succeed at work and still do right by my children. Family medical leave has let 12 million families a little time off for the birth of a child or a family illness without losing their job. Id like to see it expanded in two ways. Id like to say you can also take a little time off without losing your job to go to a regular parentteacher conference or to go to a regular doctors appointment with a family member. Id also like to see the overtime laws change so that we could have some more flex time so that at the discretion of the worker, the worker, if you earn overtime, you could decide when you want that time to be taken, in cash or in time with your family if youve got a family problem. I never go anywhere, it seems like, where i dont meet somebody who has benefited from a family leave law. In longview, texas the other day, i met a woman who was almost in tears because she had been able to keep her job while spending time with her husband who had cancer. One of the people whos here with me today met a woman in the airport saying her son, jess was able to be present at the birth of her child because of the family leave law. So, yes, i think it should be expanded. We have to help people succeed at home and at work. Senator dole welcome 88 of the the president claims 11 million are already covered and only 5 keep in mind only 5 of the employers are affected by the family leave act. We had a better idea. We didnt win. We had a better idea. Now we have a majority and we get a president. That was a tax credit for the employer. Instead of the federal government, we had that tax credit, pick up some of the costs, because if you have to hire a replacement worker, thats a cost. This is the way it ought to work, give more power back to the states and back to the people back to the taxpayers, not always the long arm of the federal government. But keep in mind, this bill covers 5 of the employers, and 95 of the employers and all those employees they employ are not covered in this act. And according to investors daily, which i read just a couple of days ago, 88 of the people he claims credit for are already covered in collective bargaining agreements or other agreements. We had family leave in our office, im certain. I see my friend senator mitchell. He had family leave. I work every day with people. I spend a lot of time in hospitals. I know what its like to be in a hospital. Sure, we want family leave. But, theres a better way to do it. President clinton i only have 30 seconds. I cant fix the statistics. It covers the majority of the work force. Employers of under 50 are exempted. The bill originally covered employers of 25 and more, but because of opposition, we went up to 50. Senator dole led the opposition to it. He filibustered it. He said it was a mistake. He said it would hurt the economy. Weve had record numbers of new Small Businesses and 10. 5 million jobs. It didnt hurt the economy. He Still Believes its a mistake. I believe its right. You can decide which of us you think are right. Its up to you. Jim lehrer next question for senator dole. Yes, maam. Ms. Giannotti hi. My name is bridget giannotti, and im a wife and mother of two sons, from carlsbad. And my question to you, senator dole, is as the wife of a san diego business owner, i see one of our biggest problems in the u. S. Is it does not manufacture enough of our own products. How would you help this problem out . Senator dole well, right. Weve lost 357,000 manufacturing jobs. The bureau of labor statistics today said they made a mistake. Its probably going to take a much, much higher figure. So, we talk about all these new jobs. Wed better wait and see what the results are. Were going to do that with a more aggressive trade policy. Were going to do that with an economic package. Were going to do that with regulatory reform. You know, regulations cost the average family right here, democrat or republican, about 7,000 a year. 7,000. Thats like a tax. Its put a lot of people out of business. I met a lady in Colorado Springs about seven weeks ago now. She had a Small Business with 63 employees. She finally gave it up. Why . Because of paperwork and regulation. Congress passed a paperwork reduction act. The president exempts the irs which creates threefourths of the paperwork. Were going to have regulatory were gonna have litigation reform. You know, i fell off a platform out in california, chico, a while back. Before i hit the ground, my cell phone rang and this trial lawyer said, i think weve got a case here. [laughter] senator dole weve got to stop some of these frivolous lawsuits. Theyre putting people out of business, men and women. Get the economy going, cut the Capital Gains rate, create more jobs and opportunities for everybody in america. Thats what we will do. And my word is good. I keep my promises. I dont break my promises after the election, and i dont make new promises in an Election Year. Were going to get it done. Were going to grow some of these jobs in america, because we need to get it theyre going the wrong way. President clinton lets look at the facts. We lost a lot of manufacturing jobs in the 12 years before i became president. Weve gained manufacturing jobs since ive been president. Weve negotiated over 200 separate trade agreements. Lets just take california. In california, we made 37 billion worth of Telecommunications Equipment eligible for export for the first time. Were selling everything from from from telephones to cds to rice in japan. Were selling american automobiles in japan now. I visited a chrysler dealership in japan. Were number one in automobile manufacturing production and sales around the world again, for the First Time Since the 1970s. Why . Because weve had tough aggressive trade policies, and because weve got Interest Rates down. We have a good, stable economic policy. Because we reduced the deficit four years in a row for the first time in the 20th century. The president has done that in all fours years and thats why i dont want to see us blow a big hole in the deficit with a tax program we cant pay for, so your Interest Rates will go up, and youll have to pay back in higher Interest Rates what you allegedly will get in a tax cut, so i say keep working on expanding the markets. More than half of these 10. 5 million new jobs are in higher wage areas and well have more manufacturing and sales around the world. Senator dole you may think the biggest employer in america is general motors, but ive got news for you. Its manpower services. Hiring people temporarily who have lost their jobs and they get to work for 30 days or 60 days. Thats a good economy . I dont think so. Theyre setting new records this year. We had the worst economy in a century. We had the slowest growth, about 2. 5 . The president inherited growth of 5 . We dont have the s l crisis anymore. Republicans have cut 53 billion in spending, thats why the budget looked good. It didnt look good the first two years when we had a democratic president and congress. Jim lehrer next question is for president clinton. Yes, sir. Mr. Goldfarb im bob goldfarb. Im a travel agent and can you please explain your policy on the employment nondiscrimination act that would have prohibited discrimination, would have prohibited people from being fired from their jobs simply for being gay or lesbian. President clinton im for it. Thats my policy. Im for it. I believe that any lawabiding, taxpaying citizen who shows up in the morning and doesnt break the law and doesnt interfere with his or her neighbors ought to have the ability to work in our country and shouldnt be subject to unfair discrimination. Im for it. Now, i have a little time left so let me just say that i get attacked so many times on these questions its hard to answer these things. Senator dole just said we had the worst economy in the century. In february he said we had the best economy in years, just february. And i dont want to respond in kind to all these things. I could. I could answer a lot of these things tit for tat. But i hope we can talk about what were going to do in the future. No attack ever created a job or educated a child, or helped a family make ends meet. No insult ever cleaned up a toxic waste dump or helped an elderly person. Now, for four years thats what i worked on. If you give me four years more i will work on it some more and i will try to answer these charges, but i prefer to emphasize direct answers to the future and i gave you a direct answer. Jim lehrer senator dole . Senator dole well, im opposed to discrimination in any form but i dont favor creating special rights for any group. That would be my answer to this question. And im, you know there would be special rights for different groups in america. But im totally opposed to discrimination. I dont have any policy against hiring anyone, whether its lifestyle or whatever, we dont have any policy of that kind, never have had in my office or will we have in the future. But as far as special rights, im opposed to samesex marriages, which the president signed well after midnight one morning in the dark of night. He opposed it. But i will get back to the economic package because, again, i think this is very important. If theres anything thats going to change america its get the economy growing. The president inherited a good economy, sure the s l crisis then were selling assets. Got a Republican Congress cutting spending finally and he said its the best four years ever. Thats not true. ,e had 1. 2 million bankruptcies set a new record. Credit card debt has never been higher. I just told you about this manufacturing job loss which is going to increase. We need a good strong economic package, let the private sector creates the jobs and they can do it. If you dolepresident clinton believe that the california economy was better in 1992 than it is today, you should vote for bob dole. I have worked so hard out here to help turn this economy around. Let me just give you one tiny example. In san diego, where we had some defense cutbacks, we funded a project for the university of california san diego to use airplane composite materials to build lighter, stronger bridges, a little project in a program that senator dole opposed. And that composite now is going to be built around the bridges on the santa monica freeway to help minimize the impact of earthquakes and create more jobs. Thats just one tiny example. Maybe we will talk about some more before its over. Jim lehrer next questions for senator dole. This section. Yes, maam. Ms. Strategos senator dole, i am bertha strategos, and i work in health care and its truly an honor to be here tonight to address both of you. Senator dole thank you. Ms. Strategos being in health care we have talked about a little bit about health care tonight, but mainly medical and medicare have been mentioned, but the private sector is a problem. Managed care is taking over, especially in california. And because of that, the quality of care is going downhill. There are many, many people who cannot get the tests that they need when they need them, and because of that, they are dying needlessly. There are many, many more lawsuits being presented against the managed Care Industry because of this. And i think its a real problem that needs to be addressed. What would you do if you were president . Senator dole well, one thing i did was oppose the government takeover health care that of health care that president clinton offered in 1993, which created 17 new taxes and 50 new bureaucracies and price controls, because we were afraid the very thing you mentioned would have happened. Everybody would have been forced into managed care. You couldnt have chosen your own doctor and that would have been the end. And i think right now we got to go back. I know theyve appointed a commission to take a look at managed care. Maybe thats part of the answer. But it seems to me if we start to take choices away from people and if we drive them into one type care, eliminate feeforservice altogether or eliminate the fact you can go to your own doctor, you have to go somewhere else, then i think weve taken a giant step backward in the United States of america. We have the best Health Care Delivery system in the world and we want to keep it that way. Thats why we opposed the government take over Health Care Plan that president clinton tried and tried and tried to get through congress. Didnt get it done. And ended up we had more votes than he had, then they decided to pull the plug. It was a big, big mistake. Now, whether or not hell do that again, ive heard some of the people say, well, thats the model we ought to use and if hes reelected maybe he will come back and try it again. I hope not. I hope not in both cases. But it does seem to me that youve raised a very important point that needs to be addressed. Youre going to have to watch it. Going to have to take a look at all the managed care going on in california, or were going to end up losing our best care that we have in the world. President clinton im just curious. How many of you are under managed care plans . Raise your hand if youre in managed care plan. How many of you like it . Senator dole two. President clinton well, one of the things that i tried to do was to make sure that everybody in the country who was under a managed care plan should at least have three choices of plans, and would have the right to get out without penalty every year. Now, thats not a government takeover. Thats like the family of medicalleave law, it just tries to set the rules of the game. Im strongly in favor of a federal bill to repeal any gag rules on providers. In other words, i believe that doctors should not be able to be kicked out of managed care plans just because they tell the patients what they need and what more expensive care options might be. If were saving money and managing resources better, thats a good thing. If were saving money and depriving people of care, thats a bad thing. A good place to start is to say no managed care provider can gag a doctor and kick the doctor out of the managed care plan for the doctor telling the patient, you need a more expensive test, you need a more expensive procedure, your health requires it. Jim lehrer senator dole . Senator dole well, i dont have any quarrel with that. I think that would help. But i think what we want to avoid is falling back into this nationalized Health Care System that president clinton wanted to give us in 1993. If that isnt a liberal idea, ive never heard one. 17 new taxes, price controls, 50 new bureaucracies. Wed have that trouble all over america. We need to deal with managed care. It not only happened in california. Its happening in other states that we visit, too. Its a national problem. Not just a state problem. Jim lehrer the next question is for president clinton in this section. Yes, maam. Yes. Ms. Oconnor i would sort of like colleen oconnor. I teach history and Political Science in San Diego Mesa College right up the road here. And i would like to tee off from the original question by another teacher and speak for those people that arent here tonight. 63 of the American People are not participating that are eligible to vote, not even participating in the process. Several parties cant even get the green party, the reform party, the national law party, all of these people are basically opted out of what were still participating in. If we in fact are going to bring the country back together and be all faces around the table, the new american family, what do you see as something the president can do to begin that process to bring them back in . President clinton first of all, i think its important to make voting more accessible. Thats why i strongly supported the motor voter law. There was a big story i think in of the millions of people who have now registered because of it. Secondly, i think we need to look at making the elections more accessible. You know, several states now are letting people vote over three weeks. A lot of people are busy and its hard for them to just get there and vote. Third thing i think we need is more forums like this, which is one of the reasons i have so strongly supported Campaign Finance reform. Because if you want to cut the cost of campaigns, you have to open the airways, because what drives the cost of campaigns are the cost of advertising on television, radio, newspaper, mass mailing. And if you open the airways to more things like this, you see its not just you that are participating here. For every one of you who stood up here and asked a question tonight, i promise you theres a 100,000 americans who said i wish i could have asked that question. So i think we have to change the nature of politics. The last thing i think we should do is something i have been trying to do since i have been president , is every time i do something in a public way, i try to have a real american citizen there who is directly affected by it so that people can see the connection of what happens way across the country, in washington with more police on the street, in san diego, clean up the sewage here in san diego, doubling the Border Guards here in southern california, that there is a connection between what we do way back there and what we do there. Those are my best ideas about it. Senator dole well, i dont know of any perfect solution. I have been in politics for some time, and i worry about the people who dont vote. And i wonder if its our fault, the candidates fault. People say, i dont care. One vote doesnt make a difference. I can give you hundreds of you can probably give me 200 cases where one vote made a difference. I know it made a lot of difference many times in the congress. Campaign finance might help. It might help the contributions from coming in from indonesia or other foreign countries, rich people in those countries, and then being sent back after the l. A. Times discovers it, 250,000. But maybe there ought to be more debates. I would be willing to have another debate this year. We can invite all the candidates. And talk about the economy. If we dont get the economy to grow, if we dont cut taxes, and give people child credits, and cut the Capital Gains rate, and get this economy growing, were going to limp into the next century. If we grow the economy, its going to help Social Security. Its going to help jobs. Its going to help everything. President clinton let me make one other suggestion, because youre a teacher, you can have an impact on that. One of the things i think that really frustrates people is that so often political campaigns seem to be more about the politicians that are running than the people. And there is a connection. And i think what we have to do is convince people there is a big difference, if you vote one way, you will have a department of education in the 21st century, if you vote the other way, you wont. If you vote one way you will have an expansion of family leave. If you vote the other way, you will be lucky to save it. But these are important questions. And people have to decide. I think that the American People also need to be a little more responsible and think about whether theres a connection with their lives and what we do in washington. Jim lehrer for senator dole, in this section, on the back row. Yes, maam. Ms. Siefert im iris siefert and im unemployed. Senator dole iris . Ms. Siefert iris. Senator dole, we talked about Social Security for us baby boomers. But shouldnt we be saving and investing for our own retirement as well . Are you planning any incentives to encourage us to take care of ourselves rather than to rely on the government and on Social Security when we retire . Senator dole well, we have in our economic pack, individual individual retirement accounts where we think it will encourage savings. You can also use those accounts for health care or education or a first home. Were doing that precisely, and i think one thing sooner or later were going to have to consider is take a look at the Social Security system. Because weve got a lot of people advocating we dont want to put our money into Social Security. You have to be very careful of that because you have to protect the people who are already in the pipeline. Its something you might consider. Im not suggesting it will be done, but at least we ought to look at it. When i was chairman of the finance committee, which handled Social Security we looked at all these options, and one thing weve got to make certain, when i used to go home my mother would tell me all ive got is my Social Security, dont touch it. And we didnt touch it. We preserved it. And im an optimist. Your your Social Security is going to be there when you retire. We will fix it. It will probably happen in the year 2012 or 2015. In 1983 we thought we had a 75 year fix. It didnt work. Much, much less, but at least we fixed it for some time and 37 to 40 Million People get their checks on time. So, we need to preserve the system. And we need to make it stronger. But we also need to look at some options, whether or not we depending on what the options are. In fact, they have got a commission right now in congress, a Bipartisan Commission, looking at all the different options they will present to the next congress. So, i think we will wait, see what they present, take a look at it. President clinton iris, this is one where we have some agreement, i think. Only about half the people in this country have pension plans. And Social Security is not enough for a lot of people to live on, or at least is not enough for them to maintain anything like their previous lifestyle. So, weve got to figure out how are we going to have more people with pension plans, and Pension Coverage has been declining as more and more people work for Small Businesses and fewer people work for big businesses. So, what is in my plan and i think its almost identical in senator doles plans is we make more people eligible to save in an ira and let couples, married couples save more and then they could withdraw from it taxfree if they needed to, for medical emergencies or buy a home or education, also save to supplement retirement. In addition to that, we just passed a sweeping business reform that makes it easier for Small Business people to take out 401 k plans for themselves and employees and much easier for employees to carry it from job to job. My best friend from grade school is a Computer Software salesman and he told me last time he changed employers it took him nine months to figure out how to transfer his 401 k plan. Now, none of that will happen anymore. I hope over the next ten years you will see a big increase over the percentage of people that have pension plans, plus a secure Social Security system. Senator dole did you say youre unemployed . Ms. Siefert yes. Senator dole see, the first thing we have to do is get you a job. And thats the economic package again. Create jobs and opportunities. Reduce the Capital Gains rate. Reduce regulatory reform. Stop some of this senseless litigation and let people work in america. And i think thats thats the thrust we will make. Obviously, if Social Security is a very important program, it should it will be preserved. Democrats or republicans, it will be preserved. We want to make certain we protect those in the pipeline just as we did back in 1983 and we did it on a bipartisan basis. We took it out of politics. People get so tired of politics. We ought to do the same with medicare. Maybe we can make a deal here tonight. Jim lehrer all right. The questions is for president is for president clinton. Does anybody have a Foreign Affairs question in this section . Yes, sir. Mr. Smith good evening. Im michael smith. Im an Electronics Technician in the navy. My question was how you plan to deal with the trade deficit with japan. Senator dole let me tell you president clinton let me tell you what we have done. We have concluded with japan 21 about to be 22 trade agreements now. And since we did that, in the areas where we concluded, trade agreements or exports to japan 85 in the last four years and our trade deficit with japan has gone down. Until about five months ago the japanese economy was in a deep recession. Its coming back now, so they can buy even more american products, and i think it will go down more. But im very thats one of the real Success Stories here of the work weve done. Were selling japanese rice from california for the first time. I visited a chrysler dealership in tokyo. I visited a jeep plant, a plant in toledo, ohio, where theyre going to export 41,000 right hand drive jeeps this year, and theyve got 700 new jobs because of it. Theres no easy way to do this. When youre dealing with an economy thats traditionally been more closed than one thats traditionally been more open. You have to gut it out, issue by issue by issue. We agreed in principle on an insurance agreement, and were working on three or four other areas now, but the way you have to do it is make sure youre competitive. Were the most competitive country in the world now, and then just fight to open those markets and go try to make the sale, and thats what our trade ambassador our commerce secretary and all the other people in our administration are trying to do. Senator dole well, the bottom line is we have to stop exporting jobs here. We have to keep jobs here. There are 357,000 good jobs, manufacturing jobs, which are lost. And i assume some of those are because of our trading partners. We didnt have access to their markets. We ought to insist on access. If we dont have access to their markets the same way theyve access our markets, we ought to say, wait, thats enough. Time out. When you give us access, well give you access. Its very hard its very hard to get into the japan market, as everybody knows. They want to get into our market. They sell a lot of automobiles here, create a lot of jobs those who sell exports. And thats very important to the economy, but i think we want to make certain. I supported the president s trade policy. But we got to be more aggressive. Once you have a policy, then you have to go out and be aggressive and enforce that policy. There are american jobs that are being lost. This is what ross perot complains about. And id say to the reform party, take a look at the Republican Party. Were the reform party, and were going to make things better, and one of the things were going to do is stop exporting jobs in america. President clinton let me say again, weve had over 200 separate trade agreements in the last four years. By far, the largest number in American History not just the big ones you read about, but a lot of smaller ones. And now what we have to do is to focus on those things were real good at and make sure were getting a fair deal. We just had a pretty serious dispute with china because they were copying our cds, and costing thousands of jobs in places like california. As we said, if you want to keep doing business and selling your products over here, youre going to have to quit pirating our cds, and they agreed to do things and verify that they had done it, which will make the problem much better. There is not a simple answer. You have to work on this day in and day out, every month ,every , every year, every issue, to make sure that we have not only free trade, but fair trade. Im proud that were better off on that than we were four years ago. Jim lehrer the next question is for senator dole in this section. Yes, sir . Mr. Kite rod kite, minister. Senator dole hi, rod. Mr. Kite this great nation has been established by the Founding Fathers who possessed a very strong christian belief in godly principles. If elected president of the United States, what could you do to return this nation to these basic principles . And also, do you feel that the president the office of the president has the responsibility to set the role example to inspire our young people . Senator dole well, no doubt about it, our Founding Fathers had a great deal of wisdom. In addition to what you mentioned, they also were concerned about this allpowerful Central Government in washington, d. C. , thatd in effect confiscate your property,. I carry it in my pocket i cant pull it out or id violate the rules a copy of the tenth amendment, which says we ought to return power to the states and the people, the people here. You ought to make more decisions. Honor, duty, and country, thats what america is all about. Certainly the president of the United States, the highest office in the world, the most Important Office in the world, has a responsibility to young people, as we talked about earlier. To everyone. By example. And when it comes to public ethics, he has a responsibility. And you have 30 something in your administration, either left or being investigated or in jail or whatever, then youve got an ethical problem. This is public ethics. Im not talking about private. Public ethics. When you have 900 files gathered up by some guy who is a bouncer in a bar and hired a Security Officer to collect files, in watergate i know a person who went to jail for looking at one file, one fbi file. There are 900 sequestered in the white house. 900. People like you. Why should they be rifling through your files . The president has a great responsibility. Thats one that i understand and certainly will carry out. President clinton this is the most religious, great country in history. And yet, interestingly enough, we have the most religious freedom of any country in the world, including the freedom not to believe. And now, we have all these people just up the road in los angeles county, we have people from 150 different racial and ethnic groups and tons of different religions, but the fundamental tenets of virtually every religion are the same, and what i try to do is to support policies that would respect religion and then help parents inculcate those values to their children. Let me very briefly give you some examples. One of my proudest moments was signing the religious freedom restoration act, that says the government has got to bend over backwards before we interfere with religious practice. So, i changed the Justice Departments effort to get a church to pay back a man tide, tithe, because he was bankrupt when he gave it. I have supported Character Education programs in our schools, drugfree schools programs. I supported giving parents a v chip on their television so if they dont want their young kids to watch things they shouldnt watch, they wouldnt have to. That is the kind of thing we have to do, give people like you and our families the power to give those values to our children. Senator dole before i came in, my wife and daughter and i had a prayer. Because its gods will, whatever happens. Its gods will, itll happen. The constitutional amendment for voluntary prayer in school, in my view would be a great idea. I support it, the president opposes it. It seems to me the president , whoever the president may be, this is one of his highest responsibilities. People look to the president of the United States more than any other person in america. And thats the way its always been, and thats the way it always will be. Jim lehrer all right. This is our last question. It goes to president clinton and its from this section. Yes, maam. Ms. Dube my name is yvette dube and i, too, am a minister. Im with the universal metropolitan community churches. President clinton, perhaps you can help me with something tonight. I heard mr. Dole say several times, all of us together, and when he was asked if he would support equal rights and employment for gay and lesbian people, you said that you favored that, and he said that he did not believe in special rights. And i thought the question was equal rights for all people. And i dont understand why people are using the term special rights when the question is equal rights. Could you help me in understanding that . President clinton what i did was to have the Justice Department and Education Department issue a set of guidelines saying children cannot be interfered with in that are Advocacy Administration has done more than any in 30 years to declare freedom of religion in the Public Square in the public schools. Dole speaket senator for himself. This the last question. I wouldnt mischaracterize him to try to make you happy. We have a lot of differences in our country. Some of us believe that other peoples decisions are wrong, even immoral. But under our constitution come the lawhow up and obey and work hard and do what youre supposed to do, you are entitled to equal treatment. World, people are being torn apart, middle east, northern ireland, rwanda, you name it, because of the differences. We still have some of that hatred inside us. One thing ive tried hardest to do is to tell the American People that we have to get beyond that. We have to understand that we are stronger when we unite around shared values instead of being divided by differences. Jim lehrer senator dole . Senator dole well, i hope i made my answer clear. I said im opposed to discrimination. You know, weve suffered discrimination in the disability community. There are 43 million of us. And i can recall cases where people would cross the street rather than meet somebody in a wheelchair. So, we want to end discrimination. I think that answers itself. No discrimination in america. Weve made that clear. And i would just say that it seems to me that thats the way it ought to be. We shouldnt discriminate race, color, whatever lifestyle, disability. This is america. And were all proud of it. But, were not there yet. What we need is good, strong leadership going in the next century. Into the next century. Im sorry we didnt have a Foreign Policy question, because just this week secretary christopher said, well, we really didnt know much the first couple of years about Foreign Policy. Now, that was quite an admission. It underscores what i had to say in the hartford debate, that there is really no Foreign Policy in this administration. Its sort of ad hoc, just whatever comes up, well deal with it. Unfortunately, we didnt have more questions on that. President clinton let me say again, there is no more important responsibility for the president than to say if you believe in the constitution, the bill of rights, and the declaration of independence, thats all we need to know. And you can be part of our america and you can walk across that bridge to the 21st century with us. And we are not well served when we attack each other in a kind of ad hominem way. It doesnt create jobs. It doesnt educate children. It doesnt solve problems. We need to be disagreeing on ideas, honestly, and talking about the future. The future will be the greatest time in this countrys history if we can beat this division that is bedeviling the whole rest of the world. Jim lehrer jim all right. Now we go to the closing statement. Senator dole, youre first. Two minutes, sir. Sen. Dole well, let me thank everybody here at the university and, jim, thank you. All the people who may still be watching or viewing. This is what its all about. Its not about me. Its not about president clinton. Its about the process. Its about selecting a president of the United States. So we have our differences. We should have our differences. Mentioned other parties. They have their differences. We all agreed it would be a pretty dull place. We should have more debates. Maybe we will have another debate on the economy. But i would just say this. This is the highest honor that i have ever had in my life, to think that somebody from russell, kansas, somebody who grew up living in a basement apartment, someone whose parents didnt finish high school, somebody who spent about 39 months in hospitals after world war ii, someone who uses a buttonhook every day to get dressed. Somebody who understands that therere real americans out there with real problems, whether soccer moms, or the single parents, the families or the seniors, or people with disabilities, whoever it may be. There are some very fundamental differences in this campaign. President clinton opposes term limits, opposes a constitutional amendment to balance the budget. President clinton opposes voluntary prayer amendment. Opposes an amendment to protect the flag of the United States of america. People give their lives. Couple of service men here. They sacrifice, give everything for america. We ought to protect the American Flag with a constitutional amendment. But beyond that we need to address the economy. I will just say my time is running out here. Its a very proud moment for me. What i want the voters to do is to make a decision. And i want them to be proud of their vote in the years ahead. Proud that they voted for the right candidate. Proud that they voted hopefully for me. And ill just make you one promise, my word is good. Democrats and republicans said bob doles word is good. I keep my word. I promise you the economy is going to get better. Were going to have a good economic plan. Were going into the next century a better america. Thank you. Pres. Clinton thank you, jim. And thank you, ladies and gentlemen, and all the people who are watching. One thing i would like to say is i agree with what senator dole said. Its a remarkable thing in a country like ours, a man who grew up in russell, kansas, and one who was born to a widowed mother in hope, arkansas, could wind up running president. Could have a chance to serve as president. First thing i want to say is thank you for giving me the chance to be president. This election is about two different visions about how we should go into the 21st century. Would we be better off as i believe, working together to give each other the tools we need to make the most of our godgiven potential, or are we better off saying, youre on your own . Would we be better off building that bridge to the future together so we can all walk across it or saying you can get across yourself . If you dont agree leave this room with anything else tonight and if the people watching us dont leave with anything else, i hope you will leave with this. This is a real important election. The world is changing dramatically in how we work and how we live, how we relate to each other, huge changes. And the decisions we make will have enormous practical consequences. So weve talked about our responsibility tonight. I want to talk about your responsibility, and your responsibility. Your responsibility is to show up on november the 5th. Because youre going to decide whether were going to balance the budget now, but protect medicare, medicaid, education and the environment. You will decide whether were going to keep fighting crime with a brady bill, assault weapons and finish putting those 100,000 police. Whether were going to move a Million People from welfare to work. Whether were going to give our families more protection for their kids against drugs and tobacco and gangs and guns. Whether were going to give our children a worldclass education. Where every eightyearold can read. Every 12yearold can log in on the internet. Every 18yearold can go to college. If we do those things we will build that bridge to the 21st century and the greatest country in history will be even greater. Thank you. Jim thank you, senator. Thank you, mr. President. This concludes this is the last of the three 1996 president ial and Vice President ial debates. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [applause]