Of brothers and coulibaly came into contact with these people, especially one of the brothers, and they were in a certain sense radicalized already from a very long time ago, and the brothers were held and coulibaly were held when there was an attempt to release from prison, of this terrorist group that came out in the 1990s, so theres a generational system going on here. Rather than talk about i think rather than talk about whether it was somehow guided from yemen or guided from other parts of the muslim world, i think we also need to see how these networks are not just beginning today in france. All right, thank you very much, michael. Just stand by for us. Were going to talk to another guest whos joining us here from washington d. C. This sunday. Robert russell is the executive director of a Cartoonist Rights Network international. Thank you very much, indeed, robert, for being with us. Let me first ask you about your reaction as were seeing so many people in the streets of paris. Im not sure that youre able to see the video thats coming out this sunday. Nonetheless, people are basically coming out in such a strong way and in such a huge way to defense essentially press freedom and freedom of expression and liberty. Absolutely im sorry, absolutely amazes me. Ive got an echo in my all right. Absolutely amazed me to look at the videos this morning of this vast, vast playground of people having this serious reaction to these horrible murders. There was just endless, endless rows of people, all kinds of people from all religions, all ages, every part of society came out to express themselves today. Its absolutely marvelous and miraculous. What does that mean for satirists and cartoonists like the ones who lost their lives at Charlie Hebdo . What does that mean for the people who will pick up the legacy, so to speak, after Charlie Hebdo, and continue satirizing and continue doing cartoons . This, to me, demonstrates that humor and satire are the most powerful weapons we have to deal with the fear that is the main amunition of the terrorists. And our cartoonists will be complete ly completely void by this, encouraged. They will want to continue on the tradition of Charlie Hebdo. It was wonderful to see the staff yesterday coming together having their first meeting to plan their next issue. We can only hope that the next generation of Charlie Hebdo cartoonists will be as humorous and as funpoking and as good artists as sharb and his colleagues were. Let me bring an issue though that people have been talking about throughout the week, and that is the issue of whether Charlie Hebdo and other satirical magazines should be as provocative as they have been. Some people have been saying that maybe they need to think about toning down their messages somewhat at least, in light of whats happening. If you start toning down messages, where would that stop . Okay, cartoonists and islam and cartoons about religion today, tomorrow, it might be tuning down criticism of political leaders, or catholic priests being pedophiles. Cartoonists lift up the carpet, the edge of the carpet to see what has been swept under there. Do we want to keep that carpet edge down and keep sweeping corruption and false saupgzs and lies under the carpet . Saupgzs. The best people in the world are cartoonists to lift up that carpet with a sense of humor, a laugh and a chuckle and let the rest of us see whats really going on in the world. All right thank you very much for being with us there from washington d. C. Id love to give a plug for our website, cartoonistwrites. Org. If people want to learn more about the dozens and dozens of other cartoonists who are in trouble around the world, please go to our website and familiarize yourself about what cartoonists are doing all over the world to press free speech. Thank you very much indeed, robert, once again, for talking to us. Is he still there . I wanted to ask him, there seems to be a difference in the nature of the cartoons. I dont think its necessarily the same thing to say, should we question whether we blast another persons religion or whether we blast another persons politics. I dont think theyre exactly the same thing, and i dont think that the discourse should be necessarily on the same level level. Lite see if hes still with us from washington d. C. What do you say to that . Well, you know, where do you who is supposed to draw these lines . Political an awfully large part of the world, what is the one point something billion people are muslims, and most of those governments are heavily, heavily influenced by religion by the islamic religion. My point is never responded negatively in the same sense as they did this past week, its been in reaction to the printing of caricatures of mohammed when their own countries have been care catoured. In other words, the political satire in the muslim world has always been very active, even in the muslim world. In fact, its oftentimes been considered a safe place to do political commentary. And im asking this question, because i think its a question thats going to come up again and again and again. In other words, even in america right now, ive seen in the new yorker, in the new york times, even in the guardian of london, ive seen articles question whether even though you might have the right to create a cartoon or that vilifies or somehow pokes fun at the prophet mohammed or any other major religious figure, that having the right doesnt mean that you have the duty to do so. Robert, lets just get the last word from you. What do you say to that, just because you could, does it mean that you should . What do you say to that issue . Thats a very good point and not necessarily should you simply because you could. But that is the decision to be left up to the moral fiber and the World Outlook of the cartoonists, him or herself. That should not be determined for them by any other outside agency. That is a decision of the artist as they sit before a blank paper with a pen in their hand. They make the decision about what they would like to do, and they have to bear the criticism and slings and arrows of an outright society if their cartoons insult someone or bother someone, theyre open to that criticism. Thats part of free speech. Free speech is very messy and it goes both ways, but it doesnt pick up an ak 47, and it doesnt shoot people in the head. All right, we trust that this is going to be a topic that will continue to be debated in the next few days, if not weeks and months and perhaps even years. Robert russell, once again, the executive director of cartoonists rights Networks International joining me from washington d. C. Thank you, and goodbye to you. Were going to turn now to our reporter standing by once more. Chloe, whats happening . Well, people are slowly leaving at the square, but there are lots of people here, and i want to mention also on the politicians present during this republican march, you had politicians from all parties. That was what the government wanted, so the government in the front of the march, you had a socialist, you had eric velt, the ump, the former ruling party. Theyre all hand in hand. You had politicians from all sides apart from the french four right. Apart from the national front. You he decided to boycott this republican march saying he had not been formally invited by the government, the government saying that anyone could come to this rally. Im joined by one of the politicians who is taking part in this mass rally. Shes called raquel gabido. Shes a spokesperson for the radical left party. Raquel gabido, you are here and took part in the march today. What was the atmosphere . You really were in the thick of it. What was the atmosphere and how were the people reacting today . Theres a great sense of happiness, i think theres joy in finding each other and being together. Sometimes silence. There were moments when no one would speak, and then someone sings le marseilles. Ive never ever seen this in my whole life, and ive been to ral rallies rallies. Thats what you do when youre from the west, you rally a lot. Ive never ever seen this idea the french flag, this idea that our nation is a political nation. What makes our identity as a french as french is. [speaking french] that aptitude, that palpability of seeing in others not whats different, but whats similar to us. Was it important, do you think, to show united fronts with politicians from all sides together today for this republican march . Well, actually, im not very sure that the people mind what the politicians are doing in general. This is a very how do you say it, grass roots citizen spontaneous movement. Probably very far away from the parties, in any case, and i think thats whats important, is that theres an important people want to be together. They want to show that they can be a people together. Because in france, youve had in the past years an extreme right party and intellectuals that every day say that some of us cannot be the french people, and specifically the muslims. And that fragilization of what france is, has started to build telling what we are, and suddenly what this expresses, more than a Million People out here in paris today are saying is that, yes we can be a people together. I absolutely dont care if you have a religion or not, and if you do, which religion that is, because we are equals in our in the way that were french. One last question. This was an important march for the whole of france, for you, of course, for this national trawling tragedy, for these attacks, and you were watching the attacks when coulibaly turned himself into a french supermarket. Were you there, and can you explain why you were scared. Thats in my neighborhood and also where i live, and i was walking through the metro station on friday at quarter after 1 00 because i had a meeting with president Francois Hollande who was Holding Meetings with all of the Political Parties and i had a meeting with him at 2 30 and our party leader, and i couldnt actually get to the metro station because i was suddenly caught in a Police Operation where the policeman had preoccupation i had never seen. They halted all of traffic, and then they came in with their bulletproof vests, their heavy weapons on their shoulder, absolutely worried. Thats when we understood something very very, very big was going on, and obviously i was afraid, but i looked at the other people around me. There were hundreds of people and lots of kids because theres a high school right there and we all together, i think individually, but at the same time decided not to be afraid and this is also what this rally is about. Whoever out there wants to divide us or wants to kill us, we say, we are not afraid. Raquel, i thank you very much. As you just heard, the french have turned out en masse here politicians, ordinary citizens. This has been dubbed by one of the more highly respective newspapers, these have been dubbed equal to 9 11 for the french. All of the french population knows where they were at the time of the attacks and this is possibly a very important moment in their life and this historic march clearly is also. Historic indeed. Thank you very much. Also thank you to raquel garibdo who you just heard from there. Just as weve been speaking to chloe and raquel, weve been getting news that organizers have said that up to 1. 5 Million People are taking part in the march this sunday in paris. Were also hearing that 900,000 people are marching outside of paris in cities like leon, bordeau and masse. Weve also seen a lot of foreign dignitiaries coming into paris for this event. Weve seen dozens and dozens of World Leaders, heads of government and heads of state participating in this unity march. One of the dignitary ies whos here, dick mashalty, the foreign minister of albania and i have the pleasure of welcoming him to our set. Minister, thank you very much for being here. Im going to let my colleague chris take over in a moment, but i want to ask you first about your reaction, about what youre witnessing in paris and in france this sunday. Actually, its a huge demonstration by the entire international community, i would say, because the murderous events that took place during this week in france have affected not only the french society, but the entire world, because we are dealing with crime such as terrorism, and we have to stand up for our own values, to protect our own values, and also to protect and strengthen the future here, where france is being seen as coming from albania. We were here today in the state delegation led by the Prime Minister, with a group of ministers, and most importantly with four religious leaders representing muslim, christian, and also this community of my country. Representing in this way also the interfaith and very Good Corporation that exists among the different religious communities and believers in my country. Mr. Bushati, christopher joining in here. You come from a vulcan country with a predominantly muslim population. You met with president alat. What did he tell you . What did he ask you . President alond appreciated very much the fact that our delegation is quite unique. Also with our leaders it seems that there is a conference about the fact that everyone is cherishing a lot of the religious harmony existing in my country, the fact that france has chosen the first european destination last september was to precisely give this message that we should continue to work with community leaders, with religious leaders, and we should continue to promote religious harmony even in digital areas for europe, such as vulcan. Albania has been a very good example in this respect, and we would be more than happy to cooperate also with other countries in this direction today is about marching. Tomorrow will be about finding solutions to tackle this problem of terrorism which hasnt only hit france as we know, but other european countries. Tell us very concretely, what should europe do . What measures should europeans take . Actually, as i stated this is a global challenge. Its like the challenge we have been facing recently with the socalled foreign fighters, which have affected basically europe europe, and also bolcan which is in one way or another can serve as a gate keeper between middle east and europe. This is a very political one, and we believe the European Union and europe in general will be a little more strategic rather than acting technical, because there can be no competition with those extreme forces and terrorist forces, but its important to act in a more unified way, to complete the process of reunification of a few of the such. Secondly, its very important also to engage with forces in other continents to encourage them to continue with the same path in terms of reforms and also to continue with education and cultural issues. We need to communicate more and exchange more and have a stronger europe emerge out of this. Im sorry, you speak of a stronger europe, and we have had voices throughout the day, and weve also heard from european interior ministers who say that they are keen and they are willing to do more to share intelligence, for instance intelligence on individuals who might be trying to plan the kind of attacks that we have seen throughout the week here in paris. Do you think that is going to happen . Do you think the government in europe and elsewhere, for that matter intended to obviously if governments are keen on getting intelligence from abroad, they may not be willing to let go of the information they have and to share that information. Intelligence sharing is key in this respect. But is it going to happen . I think we have had some very good and encouraging facts regarding terror, specifically dealing with several issues, including my own country, basically applying different schemes of population, and one of them is intelligence sharing. And again, i think this is only one dimension of how we could face this issue. First and foremost important one is the political dimension. How do we see the future in five years, in 10 years . Especially in a world that is really changing quite dramatically, and how we would also submit the transatlantic bond, not only in terms of words, but in terms of deeds, in terms of complete commitments, not only in the security area, but also in trade and economic related aspects. And finally, youre not part of the European Unit yet, but you have applied. What is so unique about the e. U. Is the Free Movement of people in the shanninga zone. People are calling for stricter controls at the border. Are you worried that as a result of these attacks, shangan, the very existence will be challenged . Very often, yes. I believe it will be more important to think and act about the future design of europe, and again, first, we have an area that is called bocan, where a Success Story was post about due to the european dream and european project, and we need to strengthen this corporation to complete as soon as possible the reunionfication process of the continent, and finally i think its time to engage more with other parts of the world that would like or are willing to share with europe the same values in todays paris unity march, i have seen lots of dignitaries coming from our world and coming from overseas, so basically, there is a growing consensus about the necessities to act together, especially when we are facing these terrorists coming from within. Minister, lots of albanians are tweeting, we are charlie, or i am charlie. Je suis charlie. Ill take that as a yes. Including myself. Thank you very much. The Prime Minister of albania. I know you have a busy schedule so well let you go. We certainly appreciate you coming by the studios. And now im being told that were going to turn to our reporter, Rochelle Ferguson whos joining us from place de juan, the end goal, so to speak, of a lot of marches this sunday in the french capital. Which is the other end of this unity march, and rochelle is standing by for us rochelle. Marcus, i think one of your guests just said it there religious and racial harmony is really coming out of place de la nation today. There are lots of people here now. Were getting estimates and it cant be confirm, but it would make this the biggest march that france has seen. Whats importanted b today or interesting is that a lot of people have never come out to march before. Were talking to more and more people who said i felt absolutely compelled to take to the streets today. One of those people is with me now. This is the first time that you have been on a march like this. Ive never went i never came out for a march. What brought you out today. Pardon . What brought you out today. What . Why did you come out . Yes, i came here because 17 persons are dead, and some other ones are in the hospital, so its very important for these people and secondly, because i am here for the freedom. And because i think its important to think and speak and live fro. And what do you think of all these nationalities and all these different people who have gathered today . Its a message of peace, because today is a special day. Its not a day its a real special day. But im here for the freedom exclusively. Okay, thank you very much for speaking to us. So marcus, just again, absolutely huge crowds of people. Im sure you can hear that clapping there as more and more people make their way to the final destination of place de la nation, as you were saying just a moment ago. All right Rochelle Ferguson with us there from place de la nation, which is, as i said, the goal of todays unity march. This is the location from where the unity march started and as you can see, theres thousands of people there in the streets and boulevards around this site. This as organizers say that about 1. 5 Million People have turned up in the capital of france this sunday as people come out to basically express their revulsion regarding this weeks attacks. You can see a flag, a french flag at half mast as people file by past it. Obviously, weve also seen World Leaders come out in full force, really. Dozens of World Leaders. Heads of state, heads of government joining the french president Francois Hollande in the french capital. And i believe we have some recent pictures of these World Leaders. Im being told that were going to play those pictures a little bit later for you, this as i hear or as i am reading on newswise, that the leaders now, and especially Francois Hollande have returned to the elize palace, which is the president ial palace in paris. Once again, just look at these pictures and take them in, as more than a Million People according to organizers, have turned up in paris. Were just going to basically listen in to all of these thousands of people just for a moment so that you can hear whats going on. And weve heard people chanting. Weve heard people singing la marseilles. And just to give you a chance to that, lets listen. [crowd noise] if youre just joining us here, lets just talk you through what youre watching. Youre watching a unity march in the streets of paris this sunday after whats been a horrific week in the french capital. 17 people all together, ordinary people, people like you and me have been killed in three separate attacks in three separate shootings in paris. On wednesday, 12 people were killed when two gunmen walked into the offices of the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo and started shooting. Two of those killed were police officers. Nine of those killed worked with the newspaper Charlie Hebdo and one was a guest. Then on thursday we saw a policewoman shot, and we saw a policewoman killed just south of paris in the suburb of mon rouge, as one of the suspects Amedy Coulibaly shot her, and ran away from that site and he made a return, i suppose you can say that, on friday, during a hostage crisis in the 12th park here in paris. Thousands of people, 1. 5 million, according to organizers, turning up in the french capital and 900,000 people have turned up in other french cities, the list goes on and on and on, and a lot of dignitaries, weve been saying, throughout these past few hours, a lot of dignitaries and foreign leaders have shown up. Were going to show you the pictures now of the World Leaders that came out and marched arm and arm through the streets of paris. As you can see, netanyahu, the israeli Prime Minister, the spanish Prime Minister david cameron, the british Prime Minister the president of the European Council walking arm in arm, marching with hundreds of thousands of ordinary parisians, and we saw some symbolism as well, some heart warming images when, for instance, the israeli Prime Minister of israel netanyahu, and the palestinian president as well, as i said, some hopeful messages coming out of this march and this rally in paris this sunday. Were going to continue our conversation now here in this studio, and were going to show you the latest live shots coming to us from in and around the french capital. Well continue our conversation and will turn to frederik t. Davis, and hes a lawyer at a law firm in paris. I hope i pronounced that correctly, frederik. You did very well. Thats good to know. Youre here to talk about the legal aspect of this because obviously, some people are calling for the need to basically change french laws and to adapt them to basically be able to prevent whats been happening throughout the past week or so in paris, and some people have called for a french patriot act, for instance. What do you say about those calls and what do you say about how the Legal Framework needs to be adapted . I think its very complex and has to be looked at on a sort of broader context. I think any law or set of laws are going to prevent this thinking that is an illusion. You have to look at it very carefully in context of what needs to be done and protecting Civil Liberties. In the u. S. After 9 11, we got the patriot act. Its very hard to make an evaluation on how much good it is. I know there was good done. The problem is what weve seen in retrospect, thanks to mr. Snowden, we saw how far they went in terms of looking at peoples emails. They then lied about it, which is unacceptable. We also know that certain people at the time turned to torture, which is unacceptable. So that we see in a concrete way and can measure it. Its very hard to say, the law has been changed and achieved a decrease in the threat of terrorism. I think what really has to be done is there has to be a look overall, its not just the laws. Its the policing, its the immigration policy. Its dialogues with the communities. Every year, things that can be made a little bit better in terms of communications, in terms of diminishing the risks. But the notion that the laws will change much in the short term i think is something that when you think about it, its not going to happen. Do you think it will still become an issue looking ahead . Of course. You have to look at the laws and see whether theyre up to what is needed today. That doesnt mean you abandon traditional values of privacy and human dignity, security and dignity, seems to me do exist and must exist. How strong are french terrorism rules and european terrorism rules in come pair son to the United States for instance, we saw the passing of the patriot act in the United States, as you mentioned. We have some overstepping of boundaries, lets put it that way, on behalf of intelligence agencies. As i said, how strong are french and european terrorism laws in comparison to those of the u. S. . I think its more of a question of practices than laws. If you look at the laws, both of them say terrorism is not acceptable. They give plenty of opportunity, plenty of tools to the police to deal with it. One can get wire taps in france and wire taps in the United States. I dont think theres a huge difference between the two countries in terms of the strengths of the laws. What i do think has to be looked at is the level of coordination among Different Countries, sharing information, the coordination within each countries in terms of working on a proactive basis to deal with the problem. But today, pretty much i think focusing on the laws, i dont think a major change to the laws should happen, and if it does happen, i dont think it will make much difference. Lets turn to Michael Kirtley whos still in the studio with us. I suppose one question of how you prevent this, do you turn to the Legal Framework . Do you try to strengthen that . Or do you work with other factors like social issues and making sure that there are links between different communities. We talked about this here in the studio, but what are your thoughts regarding that and how you prevent these kind of attacks from happening . I think in terms of prevention, you need to look at whats facilitating the desires of these the radicalization and the rise of terrorism in the expression that is today. Because the terrorists of today are not the terrorists of yesterday. Theyre not looking to negotiate. Theyre not looking to come up with a solution, other than a solution that they have in the back of their mind and that belongs to them alone. So the question is what is that solution that theyre looking for, and how is that message about that solution being communicated . To me, the solution that they want at the very least is change is within the muslim world. They do not like what they see within the muslim world. They see a land thats controlled mainly by autocrats those autocrats being mainly in their minds puppets of the western world in some form or another. They see that in their eyes, islam is being blasphemed, not just by Charlie Hebdo but by many leaders in their own countries, and for them, this is why the creation of a califut in iraq under the banner of the Islamic State is such an important symbol. So this begins the symbol that attracts people. It attracts people because it gives a reason it gives a meaning to this aspiration for islam in their minds their particular brand of islam, to have a foothold, lets say. So there begins also the process that has been begun by alqaida which is a very important process of communication. In other words, theres a magazine called inspire. There are many different sources where people around the world can get information about whats going on in the mind of the leaders of these different terrorist groups. And this is an attractive message to certain kinds of people. This is an attractive message, not only in france, but in america, in australia, in germany, in spain, and in many parts of the arab world. Okay. To be able to get a grasp on how to fight this terrorism, you need to understand that they have won the war of messaging so far. Frederik, what do you say to that . And what are your thoughts on that as a lawyer from a lawyers perspective . Well, i dont disagree with anything thats been said about what the problem is out there in the world. The question then is what can we inside one country of france do. We need to open up another message. What can we do about it. I think its very complex, and i think in terms of what the forces can do, the police are doing more than anything else, there has to be a more attempt to create a dialogue with the communities, the muslim communities, where people are feeling nurtured and comfortable and developing into individuals who have nothing to lose and are perfectly willing to go in and become martyrs. What im not seeing in any country, certainly not in france, is the sense that there is sort of a path towards the dialogue with moderates and others so that that kind of community no longer exists. You say thats lacking in france . Im not seeing as much as we should see. I think it begins with days like today. Thats what i i mean, were doing with the flip side of revolution right before our eyes. On the other hand, we have the Positive Side of that, which is what were seeing, this extraordinary outpouring of support, where were seeing now close to if not more than a Million People take the streets of paris. But the darker side of the digital revolution is the fact that people who are wanting to cause terror can easily connect with one another. And this is a question i want to ask you, frederik, because i think this is a problem in terms of how do you do this, because the internet is a whole new world. Its unchartered territory. There are no jurisdictions of such. And the problem is information crossing borders can happen much easier than ever before. How far can a country go . How far can anybody go in order to control that swath of information . I think they cant. I think the internet exactly as they say, breaks down all sorts of barriers, both geographical and otherwise, and the only way to deal with it is on the basis of international corporation. Otherwise, you can simply offshore whatever youre doing. Lets go to place de la clique. Chloe, whats happening there now . There are still thousands of people here despite the cold weather, despite a bit of rain earlier. Thousands are still here on the statue still there chanting. We heard the French National anthem and the usual slogans weve been hearing ever since the first attacks were carried out against Charlie Hebdo, the satir ical satirical organization. It seems that the crowds just do not want to leave. There are hundreds of thousands of people all across paris, demonstration, their love for freedom of speech, their love for the values that are so characteristic of france. [speaking french] liberty, equality, fraternity. Those three words were pronounced by a lot of people here regularly. Everybodys come here with something, a banner, poster, a special flag with their country of origin or from their country over in france, obviously. So still lots of people here. This has clearly been a very special day for the french people. His or her you dont have just parisians. You have other people from all over france who want to be here. Earlier today i spoke to the publisher of the cartoonists who were killed in the attack on Charlie Hebdo and he was emotional. He said it was an emotional day for him. He says that he believes that sharb continues and would be proud to see this, and he also said that this is very much about freedom of press and freedom of speech. Thats why people are showing and waving pencils up in the air, and a very special day, and it seems it has been a mass turnout with hundreds of thousands, were talking about possibly more than a million now presumably, according to latest reports. So it does seem that this republican march is very much a success. Indeed, Clovis Casali reporting from central paris and as clovis was speaking, were getting from one line from the a. F. B. News agency its reporting that more than 1 million turned up in marches in french towns outside of paris, and its something that we have seen throughout the day as well as the unity march in paris is only the tip of the iceberg, as weve seen hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people to come out in towns around. Once again, youre looking at pictures here from the place de la plique. People have come out in thousands. Youve also been seeing in those pictures, dusk is starting to descend on french and paris and the french capital but the crowds nonetheless are still going strong. I want to bring Annette Young into our discussion of what could have prevented this from happening and what can prevent these kind of attacks. Weve seen Prime Ministers from all over europe and they met this sunday as well, a little bit earlier a few hours ago before this rally. Can you tell us what came out of it . Were starting to get bits and pieces of what emerged from that meeting. There will now be a global summit in washington with america and its allies dealing with this whole issue of how do you fight terrorism. A couple of things that were talked about today were certainly strengthening european borders, and that is important because youve got the schengen zone, and this allows freedom of movement. So how do you ensure security for your citizens while at the same time allowing freedom thats moving from other parts of europe. Thats certainly something that needs to be addressed no doubt in the next weeks and months will be talked about along with sharing information about passengers on airlines. I think the bottom line is and weve been talking about this over and over, is information and communication. The need to share and how freely that information is being shared. And with issues of sovereignty kicking in and where do they not. And i think the whole point about this episode in paris this week is that across the world, it comes in the wake of albeit slightly different but similar attacks in canada and australia, we saw in england that horrendous scenario where a british soldier was attacked. This is becoming an Overwhelming International issue. Obviously, it affects jurisdictions, it affects the sharing of information. There is need for some sort of global shared effort to work together. Now, theres been a lot of talk about this over recent years and weve seen it in the wake of 9 11, but theres still a lot of work that clearly needs to be done done. Im trying to understand how those issues would have dealt with the problem that we had in france. Well, i think in the fact of the americans that put them on the nofly list, and obviously, as we were saying earlier, the french i mean, you have to have priorities. One can only do so much. And a lot of their work and priority have been in north africa and perhaps not as much in other parts of the word. So it is another greater sort of coordination between these various intelligence officials, and thats the reason this summit has been called for. Did you think that these attacks could provide the kind of impetus to make progress when it comes to intelligence sharing and basically sharing information . I think it will. I think there must be, and there will be advances there. There will remain a rescission with domestic issues. You point out that these people were french. They came from some place. They had traveled abroad. Heres the question. Lets say that the French Police knew all of that. Then what do you do . You cant arrest someone saying, i think youre going to commit a crime tomorrow and the french is quoted saying, look if we put someone under surveillance for every one of them, it takes 20 of us to put them under surveillance. You cant do that. So theres always going to be a very difficult issue of combining Civil Liberties. And with the need to prevent this kind of thing. Intelligence is part of it. I tend to think the most important thing in addition to intelligence is to develop a dialogue with the various communities so that the communities no longer are places where these people can hide and develop. If you look at new york, my home town. New york cut by 90 , over 90 , the number of murders that it taken place in new york, in 10 years or 12 years, and that was because of policing. It was mostly because the police went out of the way to develop relationships with the communities, and theyre hearing from communities whats going on, and they listened. And i think as much as anything else, i dont want to say more, but as much as anything else, people in france have to see that. Just to sort of talk more about one point, do you think in the name of liberties, were just going to have to accept that some of these attackers will slip through the pack . Its always going to be a balance. What im seeing a little bit is that people are more and more tolerant of losing a bit of their Civil Liberties. Year by year, people get more used to the notion that there are cameras every place we go, and that someone may be looking at our emails. So i think we are losing our Civil Liberties and people are aware of that and to some degree tolerant of it. There has to be a dialogue. There has to be transparency. We have to be aware of what were doing, and the people who lead have to talk to everyone else that theres a consensus behind it. Frederik t. Davis, thank you very much, once again, a lawyer from a law firm in paris. I apologize if i in any way mainingled that name. Ngled that name. Were going to return to our reporter, Rochelle Ferguson at place de la nation and she has been meeting with more protesters, more people who have been coming out today, people who say that it is basically their duty to come out and to protest and to take part in this rally. Rochelle, talk us through what youre seeing and what youre hearing at the moment. Marcus, its pretty chilly out here at the moment but whats important is thats not stopping anybody at all. The gloves are coming on and the hats are coming out, and the plaza de la nation is absolutely filling up packed now as im sure you can see behind me. Weve been talking a lot about the important figures who have been showing their respect today. What were seeing now is a lot of smaller groups, representing certain communities who have come down today, again to share their sense of solidarity and respect for the victims of the attacks over the last few days, and lets speak to one of them now. Now, youre part of the Syrian Community here in france. What brought you down here today . We came here because charlie is a representation of freedom of expression. It represents us. Weve been fighting for four years in syria for freedom of speech, all types of freedom in syria. Weve been fighting for it four years in syria. That is why we came to support charlie. We printed all the cartoons that charlie has printed, over the last four years. In september 2011, we printed them, we raised them, we said we are syrians, we are charlie as well. We are charlie for freedom, and so that people see us as well. We are seen and exist in this world. We have people who are suffering in syria who are being killed and tortured. We have our kids in lebanon and all the refugees who are talking about them, so that we said as well, there has been there have been many children in syria who have died also in the last four years, so just to deliver our voice as well to support charlie and the freedom of expression. Thank you very much. So marcus, as were hearing, everybody feeling concerned, feeling worried about what weve seen in paris over the last few days, different communities here, but the message and the idea behind todays march, absolutely unequivicably the same. Solidarity here in france. Thank you very much, indeed, Rochelle Ferguson, for now. I know that youll stay there at de la nation despite the cold and will brave the cold. And as were seeing dusk descending on paris, were going to turn now to peter gamble, who is a Time Magazine journalist. Hes joining us on the line. Peter, let me just put to you the question that ive put to all of our guests in the past three hours or so, what your reaction is to the massive turnout in the streets of paris this sunday. Well, this is the first march ive ever been on in my life when the crowd had the Police Helicopters flying overhead. The atmosphere was absolutely electric, marvelous. What was interesting is weve had four or five days now of fairly easy debate about free speech and about where these killers came from and how they ended up becoming killers, about immigration in france and all these issues, and what happens as they marched today, all that was it all boils down to here we have fundamental areas which are under attack and the majority took to the streets and said, stop, we want our france back. So it was a very, very emotional rally, very, very calm, but very determined, and i think tremendously impressive. It will be interesting to see what the politicians can take it to the next step and capitalize on this mood of unity and determination and move ahead with some measures which are going to be more effective in terms of dealing with the terror threat. Peter, thats something weve been discussing here in the studio, and weve been talking about the issue of whether or not this unity will remain. What do you think about that, after having been in the streets of paris this sunday. Do you think this National Unity will remain in place, and will it continue . The freedom of liberty, freedom principle, a National Liberty is at threat. So its a very powerful moment, lately, and i think its right to question whether the Political Leadership is Strong Enough and smart enough to be able to move forward. Its complicated, because youve got some very nasty undercurrents in france, youve got islamo phobia, various antisemeticism in parts of the community. So trying to deal with that and trying to get communities involved, thats going to be a very important next step, i think. The other important next step will be to what extent do Civil Liberties perhaps take a hit as the police and security aprat apparatus try to focus on who these people are and where the next dangers might lie. Let me ask you, when it comes to your previous point that you were making, there are foerz that this will lead to a back lash among frances, or for Frances Muslim community. Did you see any of that in the streets of paris today satirical newspaper no, actually, to the contrary. There were quite a few muslims out there saying holding banners that said, im jewish, im islam, im ahmed, the name of the policeman who was killed. So it was very clear, from what i could see that this was much more about a nation as a whole rallying around a great idea of free speech, and i didnt detect any thing like that at all from the crowd and its one of the things that needed a feelgood rally, frankly. Peter gamble, i thank you for being with us. Its certainly interesting to hear your viewpoints and your experience from todays master rally. Michael kirtley, what do you think of what we just heard . Only other time that i know that ive experienced in france that felt a little bit like today is after back when everything seemed to be very optimistic and positive, and a change in society and i feel like were possibly looking at a change in society, because politicians are going to take notice of this. For two reasons. First of all, theyre going to take notes because of the political message. As peter was just saying, the french people are saying, we want this. We want this unity. We want this ability to move forward. We want to feel positive about our nation. On the other side, its also a message against radicalism. In other words, if the western countries can rally around this message, this sends the ability this sends a message to the terrorists that they cannot succeed. Number 1. Number 2, it also sends a hopefulness from the part of the young people who may be influenced by the terrorists that they might have a place in society in the western world, which is a big part of the problem. That there is an alternative. Yes, there is an alternative. Obviously, it would be too nigh naive to say that will all change because of a rally in france on a sunday in january but it certainly, in my opinion, is the right kind of message that we dont hear very much from the western world. Michael kirtley, stand by for us, because we are going to take a look at these pictures once again, as were seeing once more, tens of thousands of people in the streets of paris, and ive made a point before, but i think we need to bring it up again, how this is only the tip of the iceberg. This as were hearing from frances second biggest city, or third biggest city, depending on how you measure it but we are hearing from leon, that 300,000 people or thereaboutses have turned up in this city. That is about a quarter of the population of the city. And from other french cities, similar stories, masse, thousands and thousands of people. And im also seeing that we have seen tens of thousands of people turning up in other european capitals, like vienna. There are reports of 18,000 people turning up. Similar story in berlin, the german capital. So this is obviously an International Movement almost at this stage. Were going to turn out to Clovis Casali, our reporter at place de la republique. Tell us what youre hearing from this rally and what theyre saying about today. Its a very important day for everyone here in france. You have all the religious communities here for this republican march, and im joined by a rabbi levi. Thanks for being with us. Rabbi levi knew one of the victims, one of the men who was killed. He was killed during the attack on the kosher supermarket. And you were also in close contact and still are with his family. Can you tell me, do you think that this type of march with so many people turning up to pay tribute to the memory of those victims cannot help in any way the family of that person you know who was killed . I was walking a few hours ago. We were walking hand in hand jewish leaders, christian leaders, arab leaders and, of course, politicians walking it, sending the strong message of not just solidarity, but je suis charlie. My grandfather, the chief rabbi and the director of the jewish school, which is still operating. The message that we heard from the family that we heard last night. Says you need to be proud jews. You have always wanted jews to be able to keep up with it is traditional to do in france. Muslim and islamic countries and today, and should be able to be able to have lunch, breakfast, and dinner with his wife and children in a restaurant in place de republique nearby or without any fears. Tell me, do you think this type of march, this huge turnout will bring communities together in the wake of this tragedy of these attacks . Its unity today in france. The Prime Minister has said it and its been said by everybody when the jewish attack, the republicans attack. Its not a problem of jewish, arabs, christians, its the Jewish Society and the french are targets and its something as a nation shows today solidarity to an open society to support freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of religion. We have spoken to the jewish leaders and to the authorities the past few days and today, once again, security should be strengthened on front of jewish schools, synagogues and, of course, all places where there are gatherings of the people. But of course today, we need a tolerant society, and people should be able to, you know, recognize there is one god in this world and as well as preach openness and not tolerance and not any extremism or fascism. Id like to have your feeling on the fact that netanyahu and martin huberdat was here for this march. As joushfresh nationality, i am very proud that worldwide leaders are here today from the arab world from ukraine, other countries that were present today, and whoever wanted to join this march pertains and joined this march. So its a very important thing of unity, but most importantly not just the leaders are marching, but the words that they are speaking and also the actions that almost. What do you think about netanyahus comment when he called french jews to come out. Its open and with security. This is a priority of the french government and jewish leaders in france today to make sure that the jews could be proud jews in the society whether its in france, europe or anywhere else in the world. Rabbi, thank you very much. As youve seen, a message of tolerance, of unity today with this republican march, a strong message of people also. A strong message indeed. Clovis casali thank you very much. We have chose to stay on it, because it was so interesting to hear from the rabbi and just to bring uptodate with what youre watching. Youre watching the unity rally in the streets of paris with hundreds of thousands of people marching around the french capital following whats been a difficult week to say the least for the french capitals. Were getting some new totals, a. F. P. Are reporting that more than 2. 5 Million People have come out against terror across france, across this nation, and in different cities, that includes paris, lyon, masse, just to mention a few cities that we are getting reports on the attendance of the unity rallies. This also has a Strong Social media component to it, this story. And for more on that lets turn to our social Media Consultant joining us in the studios. Shes going to tell us whats happening on social media when it comes to this rally. On twitter this is the most popular hashtag right now in france, a lot of photos of the demonstration, an awe at the number of people as you said more than half a Million People. A lot of people who couldnt make it and wanted to express their solidarity using the hashtag to express their solidarity with the march, people even in Different Countries outside of france. There was a rumor this week that the je suis charlie hashtag was the most used hashtag on twitter. Unfortunately, its not true but it has been used over 5 million times since wednesday. Theres another hashtag id like to talk about, ahmed, being the name of the French Police officer that was killed in the shooting in the newsroom the gentleman that was frenchmuslim, and he was executed. This user posts, i might not agree with what you have to say, but i will fight to protect your right to say it. Its a common feeling that more and more are on social networks. Not everyone is necessarily in agreement with the cartoon that was published by Charlie Hebdo. Yeah, its sort of a mirror of what we had from vol tear about 200 years ago more than that in connection with the french revolution, so its a message that has an historical significance for a lot of french people. Exactly i will tolerate you and i will protect your right to be who you are and believe what you believe. These are some of the cartoons that Charlie Hebdo had published, included that made reference to islam that actually upset a lot of people. The one on the left shows mohammed saying, its hard to be loved by idiots. The one in the middle in yellow says love is stronger than hate, and you can see Charlie Hebdo personified as a person with a pencil wearing a tshirt making out, rather graphically. With the muslim person. There is the third one as well that was 100 lashes if youre not dead laughing. So a controversial series of images, but that do express the solidarity today that is the message out there in the streets of paris. Je suis charlie is how we can summarize todays event or todays rally in paris. So were going to take a little bit of a stop now. Were going to try to discuss what this actually means, what today will mean and whether or not the unity that weve seen today will last during the last few minutes of this program. And our international expert, what are your thoughts. Youre watching this unfold before our eyes this afternoon. What are your thoughts . I think i can speak for all france in saying that this is a story that really struck hard the fact that some of us knew some of the victims, the fact that there was an attack on a newsroom in the city the fact that we had Police Standing in front of the main entrance to france 24. At times, its very difficult for me, certainly given the length of time, should take that professional distance to the story without having personal feelings about it, so i would say about this, this has been extraordinary today, and i think it was badly needed in a city thats been traumatized by whats occurred in the last few days. Its a good ending of a very very bad week. Its a good ending, but may it not be an ending. May it be the beginning and i think thats the hope of everybody, that this becomes the Building Block for more dialogue, as weve all been talking about, how do we deal with the issues about alienation, about the issue of intelligence and surveillance. Yeah, looking at the sheer figures, this undoubtedly makes this the biggest march in post war history in france. Its been a tremendous success. As youve said weve really focused on paris and lets not forget that we are seeing similar marches across france, beyond france as well, as we said before, before charlie and after charlie. Today, its very comforting after nearly four days of very, very bad news, very depressing news, i should say. The question now is what do we do with this . Where do we go . Whether our political elites will be able to build something from what happens today, but very comforting to see members of different communities coming together, speaking together, and it was also a major challenge in terms of security, of guaranteeing the safety of all these people. What so far has been a success. Michael. Well, what strikes me is this may serve as a platform for better understanding of the question of how its to the muslim community. Weve seen so many muslims that have come out to this march, which is a very symbolic gesture thats very important, because this sends that message that they say very often in that community, that islam represented in terrorism, this islamist force is not islam. They say very often that this does not represent what we think or what we believe. But i dont think that message goes very far in the rest of the french community. I think that you hear it, and you say, well, islam is this. Its a religion, and were kind of scared of it and, you know, we reject it. Many people in the nonmuslim french communities do that. I think today, theres an opportunity that we actually see this, that the muslims are france are marching side by side with the nonmuslims of france and hopefully the french people can see that and understand that they see the french as well as the nonmuslims feel french. If that message gets through. In paris alone, around a Million People are estimated to have turned out for this event as a show of unity after acts of violence that began wednesday on a deadly terror attack on a french satirical newspaper. More than 40 World Leaders participated, including the french president , leaders from germany, canada, britain and israel. With this event stretching now into the early evening hours paris time, well take you back to when the rally first began with leaders meeting for a march in the streets of paris. From around europe and from around the world really, just in front of that camera at place de la republique. We see the german chancellor as well, the french president , we are currently seeing the french president saying hello shaking the hand of the palestinian president. Netanyahu, the israeli Prime Minister. As i say a pretty powerful image on this day with these two leaders. Its obviously, a very checkered and troubled past, and they are now side by side in paris, and were seeing a lot of leaders as well jean claude yinka, the head of the European Union, as well as the leaders of spain and italy right there at the camera. All right, were going to continue looking at these pictures, and im going to turn out to my colleague, Annette Young, our International President whos with us here in the studio. We also have european leaders here, because this has a european angle to it as well. But i want to start with you annette. Wee obviously already heard from the interior ministers from around the European Union. They have been meeting this day, this sunday, to discuss whats next when it comes to security