Sons of anarchy. Actually, its about the rise of the billionaire libertarian Koch Brothers, who if you live in new york city, you know they are ruining the country and funding the ballet. So were not quite sure what to make of these cats, but before we get to, that there was real milestone in the fight for marriage equality. This afternoon the last state without a legal challenge to its samesex marriage ban got one. Seven couples filed a federal lawsuit in the u. S. District court in fargo. Jon oh, yeah. Yeah, equality descending on north dakota, dont you know. Yeah. Oh, its like a big gay polar vortex, yeah. Sure. Marriage inequality, its not the only wrong being righted in the country. Alabama Appeals Court striking down that states ban on gay sex. On monday the court overturned alabamas antisodomy law, declaring it unconstitutional. Jon thats great. Its what happens when homophobes find out that sodomy, even includes [bleeped] jobs they might get. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. A cheerleader sucking my [bleeped] is sodomy . I guess i am a libertarian. [cheering and applause] thank you. Thanks. Our audience tonight very fond of oral sex. [cheering] you know what they saying, those civil rights triumphs come in threes. Will it be Brigham Young celebrates first gay quarterback, Cardinal Dolan marches in new york pride parade, mississippi marries louisiana . Whats it going to be . At its annual convention over the weekend, the Texas Republican Party endorsed a controversial therapy that reports to fix gay people. Its known as reparative or gay conversion therapy. Jon what . What . Texas . What . The state that cant even go a week without an oil pipeline spewing thinks its the gays that need repairing . [laughter] while the rest of the country inches forward on gay rights, texas apparently hopping into doc browns delorean and setting the dial to the 1950s. Its the subject of tonights gaywatch Texas Edition remember the nohomo. Repair thif therapy reparative therapy has been deride as praying the gay way. Is there anybody that puts a more positive spin on it . When somebody says people like yourself, others are trying to get the gay out of people. Thats a terrible way of phrasing it. I would rather say we are trying to bring out the head sexuality in you. [laughter] jon but thats the thing they dont have in them. [laughter] its like giving a woman a csection who is not pregnant. You wont find what youre looking for. But you will leave a scar. Seeing as you want to frame the debate in a more pleasing way, perhaps we should mention some of the techniques reparative therapist use to bring out a persons heterosexuality involves threatening to hook their genitals up to electrodes or ordering someone to bottle their feces and sniff it whenever they are attracted to a man. By the way, not only is [bleeped] in a bottle an ineffective and harmful therapy, it is by far the worst new jersey shore souvenir ever. Although, you got wonder, how did the get the [bleeped] in there . [laughter] if youre on the boardwalk and you knock down the three penguin, you get one of those. Believe it or not, [bleeped] bottle sniffing and reparative therapy in general embraced by texas politicians has been somewhat discredited. Is there someone down there who can explain the gops position . Whether or not you feel compelled to follow a particular lifestyle or not, you have the ability to decide not to do that. Jon oh, boy. Rick perrys using words again. [laughter] this aint going to end well. I made the point of talking about alcoholism. I may have the genetic coding that im inclined to be an alcoholic, but i have the desire not to do that. And i look at the homosexual issue the same way. What, a Public Safety issue . [laughter] worried a gay person will be out, they wont be able to stop at one [bleeped] and then after having too many [bleeped] get into their gay mobile and rear end somebody . Is that what youre worried about . A terrible tragedy that could have been avoided . Like alcoholism, gay people just need a bar tender to see them and just go, no you had enough [bleeped]. Let me call you a cab. But if youre into blank stare, watch the famously business friendly Texas Governor get called out on the famously business friendly news network. I have a really high bar for what i would take offense to, but that would exceed the bar for me. I dont think gay marriage leads to cirrhosis of the will liver or Domestic Violence or d. U. I. S. I dont see how thats similar. I understand people have different opinions about that. [laughter] jon just cause your opinions are based in fact doesnt mean. Look, joe, to be honest, i thought putting these glasses on would be reparative to my dumbness, but the dumbs coming back. Somebody bring me my smelling turd. Given that all reputable doctors have repudiated reparative therapy and the largest reparative therapy purveyor apologize for the pain they cause, why would texas teach this . This is about giving people rights. This is about giving people choices. Jon oh, this is about texas g. O. P. Being prochoice. They want to preserve choice for their citizens, choice in their lives, in their health care options. Well, some of their health care options. More than six Million People in this state do not have health insurance. Theres about 24 of the total population. Were not going to participate in any exchanges. Were not going folks pad medicaid. Jon so gay reparative therapy, yes human body reparative therapy, eh. If youre one of the six million texans without health insurance, maybe its time to tell them you think your arthritis is making you gay. Whats that, son . Whats that, son . What . You feel like when its about to rain you want to suck [bleeped] . Well, put away your wallet. You dont need to copay the gay away. Come on inch you know whats sad, being gay is not a choice, but being a texas republican is. So my advice is the next time you feel the urge to with a texas republican, to replace science, textbooks with pictures of humans riding dinosaurs or ban samesex marriage or put on this hat, [bleeped] in a jar and sniff it. It wont cure you. [cheering and applause] no. Wait. It wont cure you. The science proves that. But do it anyway. Hopefully it will remind you of what assholes youre being. Well be right back. Spokesperson the Volkswagen Passat is heads above the competition, but were not in the business of naming names. The fact is, it comes standard with an engine thats been called the benchmark of its class. Really, guys, i thought. It also has more rear legroom than other midsize sedans. And the Volkswagen Passat has a lower starting price than. Much better. 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Its very rare that i feel like we coin a phrase on this program, but if bring me my smelling turds doesnt catch on, im just going to be sad. Thats all. But welcome back. As americans its, of course, our duty to take sides in every conflict. But sometimes the choice is very difficult. House republicans versus the i. R. S. I dont know. Alec baldwin versus paparazzi. I dont know which one. Paula deen versus diabetes. I dont know. I dont know. Who do you choose . And now another battle looms. Were going to begin this half hour with that showdown between two powerful men, donald trump and chicago mayor rahm emanuel. Oh, its badger fighting a mongoose. I just dont know who to cheer for. Get me my smelling turds. The stakes five 20foot high stainless steel letters spelling out trumps name on his 96story hotel tower. At night it glows. [laughter] jon donald trump needs a p. I guess thats not the problem, is it . I think the sign scars the architectural beauty and taste with a tasteless sign. Chicago mayor rahm emanuel has asked his staff to see if there might be a way to remove or at least shrink it. Jon rahm, im pretty sure that is the small size. You dont want know what the large trump sign looks like. Yeah. No surprise what happens next. You mention Donald Trumps name, he appears on your television. Hes like beetlejuice, but you only have to say trumps way once, and theres no way to make him go away. Its a very highquality, very beautiful sign that i think enhances the building greatly. Its a very highlevel sign. Its done in the highest level of taste. Jon you know, he told rahm, i could have put a girl on n a vehicle helmet on the signs, but i didnt, cause its classy. The font, the whole thing, classy. [laughter] you know what, donald, its a sign. It doesnt have to be the best sign ever. It just has to identify you as the owner of the building, so i guess your roommate doesnt eat it, but look, im not an architecture critic. Blair kamin, the Chicago Tribunes Pulitzer Prize winning critic is leading the charge against the sign. Youve called this sign a wart. Yes, a wart is putting it politely i think. Jon well, im glad youre putting it politely because now chicago architecture critic just doing your job, you have entered the trumpagong. This was started bay thirdrate architectural critic for the Chicago Tribune who i thought got fired. He was gone for a long period of time. Jon what the [bleeped] is wrong with you . Do you have to answer everybody . How much time is there for you in day . I thought you were a successful businessman . Is there no slight small enough for you to just [bleeped] let it go. Remove the google news alert for your name. Now, this poor architecture critic has to go on and defend his reputation. I dont want to get into the gutter with donald trump. I have a Pulitzer Prize. I wasnt fired from my job. I was on a sabbatical at harvard. Jon you dont get it, do you . [laughter] donald trump isnt impressed by harvard or pulitzer. The only name that impresses donald trump is his own name. Unless you have trump across your forehead, he doesnt give a [bleeped]. I have to say, chicago, i think this is on you. Did you not think donald trump was going to put his name on the building you let him build . Its what he does. Have you been to new york, or as you think it would be called from the buildings, new trump city. He put up a string of apartment towers that literally block the sun from the entire Upper West Side of manhattan. Hey, hey, its the classiest, most luxurious gloom the city has ever seen. Everyone knows first thing donald trump does after finishing a building is spray his namejizz all over it. He paid athroat erect that building. Of course hes going to have his money shot. Just be thankful he didnt use his birth name. Yeah, that looks good. [laughter] well be right back. [cheering and applause] man i forgot to work out. vo average. 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Smooth and crunchy butterfinger Peanut Butter cups. [cheering and applause] welcome back. My gust tonight, a Senior Editor from mother jones magazine. His new book is called sons of whip utah how the Koch Brothers became americas most powerful private dynasty. Please welcome to the program daniel schulman. [cheering and applause] thank you for joining us. My pleasure. The book is called sons of wichita. I am very angry with you. You presented a book here thats very complex, thats very well researched. Its quite fair, and these Koch Brothers almost seem human in your depiction. I apoll jiesms. Jon how could you, sir . It is a fascinating story of these. I mean, the two brothers are sort of famous. Theres four of them. Right. So the interesting thing about this family is you really hear just about charles and david koch. Of course there are four Koch Brothers. When i was researching this book, the Political Part of their story is almost the least interesting part of it. These brothers duked it out over control of the family company. One of them, whats got to be one of the most bareknuckled brawl, legal brawls in history, and the interesting part about it is that when their dad died in 1967, bequeathing the family fortune to his son, charles koch finds a letter after his death and it says, you know, be kind and generous to each other, and this money can be a blessing or a curse. It ends up being both because their inheritance ends up fueling this nasty, nasty legal war between the brothers. Jon but its almost. You read about their childhood and the way the father. Its a different era, but there was almost like a darwinian ethos in the family, like the dad was like, who amongst you will be strongest . Follow me. Like its not surprising that they duke it out after his death because while he was alive, they duked it out, as well. They did. I mean, fred koch, the patriarch, was a john wayneesque character, very gruff, standyourground guy. He was extraordinarily competitive. He fostered that sense of competitiveness in his sons. An interesting story that i heard when i was reporting on the book was that the caretaker for david and bill, the fraternal twins, when they were growing up, actually they carried boxing gloves around with them, because these guys would get into such brutal fights they were afraid they would literally kill each other. Jon oh, my god. So they didnt have a caretaker. They had a cornerman. A cornerman. Jon comes out with a bucket and chair. Obviously now they are. How are these guys different from the bigmoney individuals weve come to know in politics, the richard melon scaife, soros, you know, the guys that weve all become accustomed to, sheldon adelson, throwing money into politics. What makes these guys different and more interesting and maybe even more formidable . You know new york some ways these guys have been playing a very long political game. For charles koch, this goes back to the 60s. Its been a campaign of institution building, methodically funding advocacy groups, think tanks, things of that nature. And at there point they now really have what you could call a shadow Political Party within todays republican party. They were able to raise 400 million in the last election, thats how much the Republican National committee. Jon its interesting. Its not all their money. Its not. They brought together a lot of donors. Theyre probably contributing the minority of the money to these political efforts. They have 300 or more highnet worth individuals who are contributing to these causes. Jon why do you think they want so desperately to remain anonymous . This is something that goes back to their dad, fred koch, very, very private guy. He was a leader of the john birch society, controversial guy in his time. And he came under scrutiny during his era. I think that caused him to become quite private. Threat that rent sans has really carried over into his sons. Jon they dont really fit. At first they were with the more libertarian frame. There is a skimp with that and that move more to the republicans now. Where do you see them shaking out . What they were really part of building the Libertarian Movement of the 1907s, but it got kooky. You had the dungeons dragons nerds in there. You had all these kind of strains. And the anarchists, the disaffected sds members. What they really wanted was to legitimize libertarian ideology. Now, as you referred to, there because big crack up in the Libertarian Movement in the 1980s. They glaf at the present time more towards republican politics, but the interesting thing is theyre thought of as republican power brokers, but on a lot of key issues they dont align with republicans at all. David koch has said hes pro gay marriage. Theyre pro reproductive rights. Jon they dont spend their money there. They are not spending their money. There. Jon so is this all economic interests . Is it purely. Because in the really more pure libertarian, theyre straight up and down, you know, for pro freedom agenda, but these guys only spend their money on economic issues. I think these guys are genuine in their beliefs, but clearly theyre looking out for their economic interests. Jon i wonder because their economic agenda seems to have supplanted whatever the republican economic agenda was anyway. Theyre really aligned on that regard. Yeah, absolutely. Im not even sure the republicans are quite. You know, Charles Kochs ideal government is really no government. Very little. Jon somalia. If you talk to his libertarian allies from the 70s, theyll say he was what they called an an, aal capitalist, that means he believes that private individuals can handle almost every function of society basically eliminating the need for government. Now, that is not where we live right now. You know, there is so much Public Investment in infrastructure, that sort of stuff. Thats not the u. S. Jon i love that because it is almost at its core, its such an an elitist view but portrayed at a freedom jeasmed its like the people what have the most money control the entire agenda. Its almost antidemocratic in a way. In some ways these guys are probably the worst poster boys for charles koch is against the minimum wage and that want to get rid of the welfare state, but obviously they have not experienced a single solitary moment of Financial Insecurity in their lives. They dont know what its like to live on 2 day when theyre making 2 million an hour. Jon thats a good gig. If you can get it, it is a good gig. Jon excellent book. Sons of wichita, on the bookshelves now. Daniel schulman. Thank you so much. They lived. They lived. They lived. dad we lived. Thanks to our subaru. announcer love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. Oh, hi there bill. Hey are you in town for another meeting . Yup, i brought my ateam. Make the most of the weekend before its gone. This is my family. 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Ice breakers. Jon thats our show. Here it is, your moment of zen. The u. S. Is not just talking about what it can do, but theyre talking to countries in the region, how they can help support anything the u. S. Would do. Theyll need overflight rights, theyll need air s comedy centrl captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org