Transcripts For CNNW The Lead With Jake Tapper 20190415

Fire. The roof and spire collapsing on the 800yearold building which continues at this hour to be engulfed by smoke and flames. Right now were told more than 400 firefighters mobilized to try to save whats left of the cathedral, a cathedral we should note, is not just symbolic for france and not just for catholics, but for all of us around the world, for anyone who can appreciate beauty or godliness or history or architecture. As 19th century novelist victor hugo once rode of the Notre Dame Cathedral, quote, every surface, every stone of this venerable pile is a page of the history, not only of the history, but of science and art. Were learning at this hour french president Emmanuel Macron was on the scene. Were not sure if hes still there. Paris prosecutors have announced an investigation into this fire, even before its been put out. World leaders have been offering prayers for france as the horrific fire continues. The question remaining, of course, what will be left of one of the worlds most iconic places of worship. Lets go now to cnns melissa bell. Shes on the scene. Melissa, tell us what youre seeing right now and tell us the reaction of the people youve spoken with there. Reporter jake, huge emotion here outside notre dame. The crowds that had gathered, that had been Milling Around when the fire broke out so suddenly, with those extraordinary images earlier on with the flames reaching as high of those towers at the very front of that iconic facade, theyve now been brought under control, but still inside the knave of the church, the fire continues. And all around those crowds have continued to gather. And this has really become something of a vigil. Catholics have been singi ining hymns over the course of the evening. One of the most famous hymns of the French Catholic Church has been sung over and over again, as the crowds look on, some of them in tears, some of them holding each other. A great deal of emotion, as so much history and such an important part of france went up in smoke. 400 firefighters have now managed to bring it under control, but still the fire continues. It gives you an idea, jake, of just how fierce it was. Still no indication of what may have started it, but, really, those plumes of black smoke that began billowing out just after 7 00 p. M. Local time, then turned into massive flames, reaching high up into the sky and shouts from the crowds, as they watched this building being engulfed. Even now, that sense of shock has really turned to sadness, as one of the most famous buildings in the world, jake, the most visited in europe, has been irretrievably damaged. No word yet on what may have begun it, no word yet on the extent of the damage, but having watched that fire over the course of the evening, there is no doubt that it will be substantial and that a huge part, not just of frances history, but of humanitys, will have been lost this evening. And melissa, notre dame, the cathedral gets roughly 13 million visitors a year, 30 to 50,000 a day. It would normally be packed with visitors. Do we know if anyone was inside . Do we know if anybody, any individual people suffered as a result of this horrible conflagration . Reporter were not hearing for the time being, jake, of any human casualties. We believe that the damage for the time being is structural, it is to the structure, to the building itself. When this fire broke out, we understand it was closing time. Youre right, there are every day huge queues outside this building, and all the more in the runup to easter weekend, hoping to get in, to have a visit of what is an aweinspiring building once you get inside. At closing time, though, people were being taken out of the church and we understand, for the time being, that there were no casualties. Thats what were hearing for now. But these are really the early hours of an investigation. The paris prosecution was here, as you say, with the french president who had been due to speak to the french nation tonight on live television. That was canceled so that he could make his way here to inspect the damage for himself. But even now, that fire continues to rage. Such was its ferocity, such was the suddenness with which it engulfed the structure, jake. And as you noted, catholics have just begun celebrating holy week, which culminates with easter sunday. That must be all the more reason why people are just having a tough time dealing with this, with this tragic fire. It happening during this week, of all weeks. Thats right. The timing of this, of course, makes it particularly dreadful. And thats what you sense from the catholics who have gathered here to sing those hymns and to be with one another as they continue to watch this tragedy, this catastrophe. The meaning for the catholics as they prepared for holy week and easter sunday, which would have been celebrated behind me here in notre dame as it is every year with a beautiful ceremony, that flow not be taking place. The question is, how long will it take them to bring this fire under control. And once they do manage to get inside, how substantial and irretrievable the damage will have been. The other question, of course, how this could have begun as suddenly and as violently as it did tonight. All right, melissa bell on the scene, thank you so much. Stay there. Were going to come back to you. And i just want to bring in this note. Were told by the paris fire Brigade Commander jeanneclaude golay that the next hour and a half will be crucial effort tos to save what remains of the Notre Dame Cathedral. Mr. Golay said theres a risk that the great bell falls if the bell falls, its the tower that collapses. There are firefighters inside and outside the next hour and a half will be crucial, he said. Joining me now on the phone is the french ambassador to the United States. Good to talk to you again. Im sorry its under these conditions, mr. Ambassador. When did you learn that notre dame was on fire . Tell us your reaction . Well, you know, i didnt think that i could be so emotional. And im still well, its unbelievable. You know, for me, its for us, for the french, its the symbol of paris, you know. I cant think of the skyline of paris without a spire of notre dame, you know, which has just collapsed. Its 1,000 years of history, of its our national identity, which is burning. You know, its awful. You know, im sorry to be so emotional, but, you know, there are no words to say. No need to apologize. In fact, mr. Macron said, like all our countrymen, im sad tonight to see this part of us burn. The idea that Notre Dame Cathedral is actually not just a building, it is part of all of france, including the french people. You know, it really and when i was passing by zraim notre da notre dame, you know, really, i was looking at notre dame without a feeling. And suddenly i realize, you know, facing this disaster, this destruction, how much it mattered for us, you know . How it was a part of ourselves. Ambassador araud, do you know, have you been given any indication how close firefighters are to getting this fire out . How confident they are that they will be able to beat back the fire within the next hour and a half . No, i really you know, fire is always so unpredictable. You know, here we are talking about a frame of 30 tons of wood, which is burning. Nobody knows the temperature now inside the cathedral. And as you heard, if the bells of the cathedral really are melting, if they collapse, its also the two towers, which could collapse. So if the firemen dont succeed to stop the fire in one hour and a half, all of the cathedral is totally destroyed. And its quite difficult. The fires at 100 feet, as was explained, its not possible to use water tankers, which could only worsen the situation of the building. So i think we have only to pray now. Do you know anything about, obviously, the architecture of the building and the spire and losing that is heartbreaking. Do you know anything about the artwork inside Notre Dame Cathedral, the crown of thorns or the holy sacraments that are there are . You know win read, but i dont have any more information. I read that actually the reliefs and part of the art pieces have been evacuated, you know. Especially, as you said, the on holy, but i wasnt told where it was evacuated. The paris prosecutors have opened an investigation into this fire. Is there any indication that this was intentional, as opposed to accidental . You know. When you have any fire, you have an investigation which is launched. Because even if its an accident, there would be the problem of the accident from whos responsible or whether there is a human responsibility in the accident. As you know, there was a big restoration work going on. Part of the church was actually covered by scaffolding and apparently the fire started from the scaffold. So we have to wait for this investigation. Ambassador araud, thank you for taking time on such an emotional day for you. I know that this will be rebuilt. And i know that it will be stronger than before. But our hearts go out to you and all of our brothers and sisters in france tonight. Thank you very, very much. Thank you. I want to bring in cnn chief international correspondent, clarissa ward. And clarissa, notre dame is more than just a church for catholics in france. It has global significance. It really does, jake. I mean, youve been to paris many times. Weve covered horrific attacks in paris together, back in 2015 after the bataclan attack. And notre dame, i mean, no one forgets the first time you visit as a Young American tourist, that moment of arriving on the island, of seeing this spectacular soaring architecture, of walking through those doors and looking at the rose window, which is so unique and so beautiful. Theres such a sense of majesty, of tranquility, that you really, you really feel this sense of humility. You feel, whether you are religious or not, or catholic or jewish or an atheist, you feel a sense of humility amid something that is greater than you. Whether its the divine or not, you can feel it, its palpable. So i do think theres a huge amount of sadness, not just felt by catholics and french people, but by all people across the world. 13 million visitors, every single year, as you said, jake. And even the name of the church itself, notre dame de paris, our lady of paris. This fundamentally french edifice truly was the grand dame of paris. It was an constitutiinstitutiony people all over the world. And it has in the past faced huge challenges, it was ransacked in the 1540s, it was desecrated during the french revolution, and then was rebuilt during the time of victor hugos hunchback of notre dame, was rebuilt over a period of 25 years. So certainly, theres a sense, i think that there will be some effort made to try to recast this magnificent structure into its former glory. But the next couple of hours, jake, are crucial. And people are watching very closely to see, does that structure collapse. Because if the skeleton of the building collapses, its hard to imagine how any reconstruction can even begin. And firefighters are saying, this next hour and a half, particularly, are going to be absolutely crucial in terms of determining how much of this Magnificent Church can actually be saved, jake. Construction began somewhere in the 1160s, as you noted. Its been through some tough times before, including the huguenots, the french revolution. One of the Amazing Things about notre dame is that it survived world war ii. And there is a cruel sadness in the fact that it was able to, the building, she was able to survive that horrible war that wreaked such havoc on europe and the buildings and the people of europe, more importantly, but arriving at this tragedy today. And it looks, though, we dont know the actual reason, but it looks like for accidental reasons. Its extraordinary. As you said, its not just world war ii, world war i, napoleonic wars, the french revolution, the crusades, all throughout and deeply embroidered into frances history, notre dame has stood magnificent, notwithstanding the violence, notwithstanding the political ongoings, notwithstanding the troubles being experienced. She has survived it all. And i think the idea that possibly some seemingly random fire could somehow be responsible for an end to this magnificent structure, its very difficult for people to get their heads around, not just in terms of the loss tortu architecturely, but also the loss spiritually, jake. You mentioned at the top of the show, this is easter week. Millions of catholics are celebrating the most important week in the christian calendar. And friday, good friday, the day of the crucifixion of jesus is a day of sadness, a day of mourning, but easter sunday, this is supposed to be a day of renewal, of rebirth, of rejoicing, of jubilation. And so the vatican and the french authorities, i think, now really have a challenge on their hands, during this time of sadness. How can they how can they recast this. How can they make an opportunity from this moment. How can they bring people together and provide them with some comfort amid something that may just look like a building in flames, but which speaks to something much more profound in people, which is i think why youre seeing this outpouring of grief and shock across the world, jake. Well said, clarissa ward, thank you so much. Stick by, were going to come back to you. I want to go back to melissa bell, who is on the streets. And melissa, one of the Big Questions here, we know that the building of notre dame is national shape, but one of the Big Questions has to do with the irreplaceable and valuable artwork, including religious artifacts that are in notre dame. And were still not, were not quite sure. What are you hearing about the crown of thorns . About the original cross, about some of those items . Reporter well, this is one of the Big Questions. Weve been watching the structural damage over the course of the evening, the collapse of that spire, those dramatic images of the structural damage. But, of course, given how intensely that fire continues to rage inside the knave, that is the question, how much history, how much artwork will have been lost . And in particular, for the many catholics who have gathered here and ive been speaking to a priest who said to me, i had to rush here as soon as i saw the pictures, as soon as i heard of the fire, because this notre dame is my house. It is my home. Its where i was ordained. And its where so much of what matters to catholics resides. One of the most important relics to christians, you mentioned, the crown of thorns brought from c to france. The question is, what happens to that relic . Did it survive . Might it have survived . Could anything that was actually in the knave of the building have escaped those terrible flames . And thats the question on so many of the minds of the catholics who have gathered, who continue to sing their hymns all around us this evening, in whats become a sort of makeshift, an ongoing vigil, even, as the extent of the fire remains an outstanding question, jake. Thank you, melissa. We just got this tweet from the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, who is catholic. And she writes, notre dame pardon, notre dame paris has stood as a beating heart of religion and culture for centuries, inspiring all who have visited her. The footage of todays fire is nothing short of heartbreaking. To the people of paris and france, know that america stands with you. Its a message from House Speaker nancy pelosi. Our coverage on this breaking news continues as the world watches in horror as the iconic Notre Dame Cathedral is consumed by flames. Well be right back. This is the family who booked the trip. Which led to new adventures and turned moments into memories. 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Its nice. You got this woo were back with our breaking news. Amid one of the holiest weeks of the year, the worldfamous Notre Dame Cathedral in paris is currently on fire, crowds watching on as the spire collapsed this afternoon. Firefighters, at least 400 of them, rushed to save whats left of the 800yearold building. World leaders are reacting. The secretary general of the united nations, Antonio Gutierrez just tweeted hes, quote, horrified by the pictures coming from paris, with the fire engulfing Notre Dame Cathedral, a unique example of world heritage, which has stood tall since the 14th century. We also have reaction from President Trump, who just weighed in minutes ago. Take a listen. Its one of the great treasures of the world. The greatest artists in the world. Probably, if you think about it, i would say, jobina, it might be greater than almost any museum in the world. And its burning very badly. Looks like its burning to the ground. So that puts a damper on what were about to say, to be honest, because that is beyond countries, thats beyond anything. Thats a part of our growing up, its a part of our culture. Its a part of our lives. Thats a truly great cathedral. And ive been there and ive seen it, and theres no cathedral i think i can say, theres probably no cathedral in the world like it. Its a terrible scene. They think it was caused by, at this moment, they dont know, but they think it was caused by renovation. And i hope thats the reason. Renovation, you know, whats that all about . But its a terrible sight to behold. President trump in a tweet also suggested that, quote, flying water tankers could be used to put out the fire. Apparently in response, the French Civil Security agency tweeted, quote, the drop of water by air on this type of building could, indeed, result in the collapse of the entire structure, unquote. Dominick thomas joins me now. Hes a cnn European Affairs commentator and the chairs of the French Department at ux cla. And dominick, you grew up in paris. Seeing Notre Dame Cathedral was part of your life as a child, as a young adult. How big a deal, how big a tragedy is this for you and for the people of france . Yeah, its an extraordinary tragedy. When you think of france, there are two iconic buildings. The late 19th century eiffel tower and then cathedral of notre dame. Two iconic architectural sights that are recognizable by anybody, anywhere in the world. The millions and millions of tourists that visit france every year either enter the cathedral and in fact go up into some of those into the towers, the left tower, weve seen, has also been taken over by some fire. And if not, people visit the surrounding area. It sits right in the heart of paris on one of the two old islands. It is extraordinarily difficult to get to, surrounded by cobbled streets and so on. But, obviously, to see this building on fire is just absolutely extraordinary. And in the map that you have up there, you see it that sits juxtaposed between the historic left bank and right bank of the city. And a lot of this area has been closed off to vehicle access, especially in the wake of various terror attacks and its a difficult one to get to. And the big question, of course, is we know that there was so much wood inside, theres scaffolding. But its what is the catalyst that started this fire . What are potentially the various Chemical Products that were there, that were being used for this meticulous renovation that takes years and years and years . And these questions are yet to be answered. And were told at this hour by the paris fire Brigade Commander, the next hour and a half will be crucial. If the great bell falls, the tower will collapse, and there are firefighters inside and outside. Dominique, every individual who has gone to notre dame has had his or her own reaction to it. Some people have religious experiences, some people just appreciate the fact that this started, the construction started in the 1100s, and feel a relation to the humanity from more than 800 years ago. Whats your what do you feel when you think about this building . Yeah, well, when you see these various architectural sites, of course, they continue to perform, in this case, a contemporary religious role and function. But i think that theyve gone way beyond that. They are the markers of a longer history, a history of conflicts with of revolutions, and so on. And no matter what ones religious faith may be, they are part of a greater identity. They are the cornerstone, not just of french identity, but of one could argue, could be european identity. And as with the attacks on the Charlie Hebdo weekly magazine that brought so much solidarity in france, this was actually an attack on a very long history of freedom of expression and so on. And notre dame is also one of those sites that in some way commemorates a history of divisiveness, of conflicts around catholics and protestants and is a space also of mediation. And at a time when so much of french and european politics has been embroiled by the polemics around the far right and antisemitism and the problems with islamophobia and so on and so forth that thinking about this longer historical identity and thinking about the ways in which community and reconciliation have operated around these sites are incredibly important. They are inculcated in young people from the very early ages of schooling and are also among the most visited sites in the world, precisely because they are architectural marvels in a way, but also because of that longer historical moments that we often forget about. And dominique, what do you think france will do regardless i mean, we know that, obviously, the building is in horrible shape. Will france rebuild . Absolutely. And unequivocally. Not only will they rebuild, but the fact that these iconic sites are being renovated actually a crucial component of French Foreign policy that the soft power of france remains untainted and that the very attraction, the touristic attraction. This is, lets not forget, the most visited city in the world. I think at the time of the london olympics, london rose up to that level. But this is an incontrovertible site of global tourism. The french state has been investing in renovating these sites and there is absolutely no doubt that renovating notre dame will be at the front and center a t as to what they do. But theres a big difference between renovating the physical structure of the building and even contemplating replacing the stained glass windows, the objects found within that. And thats, beyond the concern about the loss of human life, the true catastrophe is not only the architecture structure, but all that is contained within it and the guise of these flames. So you can expect Emmanuel Macron in his first declaration to announce and to talk about the history of this building, but to make an unequivocal commitment to the rebuilding, even if it takes a generation to do so. Which in the broader realm of history, given the decades and centuries even that it took to build this building by hand, will seem like a relatively small feat. And we know that there theres still so much that we dont know at this hour. We dont know if there were any casualties. We dont know the condition of any of the artwork or any of the religious art tupifacts, the cr of thorns or the holy sacraments are more. Joining me now on the phone is patrick bulcowski. He lives nearby. You were at a local restaurant when you heard that notre dame was on fire. You didnt think it was real at first . Yeah. Good evening, by the way. It was something that you really dont want to see. And i wasnt having a regular coffee with my colleague from poland who visited me this morning. And so we smelled that something was burning and we thought that something was going wrong in the kitchen, in the restaurant, but then the bartender told us that apparently notre dame is on fire. So for us, was very unreal. We left the restaurant and we went to see, and it was real. It was something you really dont want to see in your life. And right now im sitting in front of notre dame, i can see, at this moment, i can see on the left tower and also like the middle, some flashlight. I dont know whos there, so some people are actually right now there. I think that the fire is not there anymore. We can see some white lights, some flashlights. I dont know if there are investigator or firemen who are trying to calm the fire that are inside right now. So i hope that its not going to get worse, even though i got photos from my friends that live just in front of notre dame, the photos from behind, that were horrible. So we can see that the roof just collapsed. And so what i see right now, sitting in front is the front of notre dame, i dont know what was behind and i feel like i mean, ive seen the photos on the internet. And i just dont want toe so it live. I think that everything that survived is just in front of me, we can see right now. And with all of those flashlights of i guess firemen or the investigators that are right now inside the building, i dont know what else. I think its just, its horrible. Patrick, one of our reporters there said that the crowd that has formed outside notre dame, its almost like a small vigil, mourning the loss of this building. Tell us about the mood of the individuals with whom youre standing . So, well, im sitting we are like thousands, i think now people are trying to go back home. Most of the people on my left side, i can hear the prayers. Theyre singing in front of the notre dame. Theyre praying, theyre crying, everybodys sad, nobodys laughing. And, its like i think when youre standing in front of notre dame and you hear all the prayers and all the mood that is sad, it just gets you you really get how serious it is, actually. And right now when im talking to you, i see another flashlight from inside of the building of notre dame. So and on the left, i can hear people praying. And then the street is blocked. You cannot really move. You cannot really get close to the cathedral. And, yeah, i mean, i dont know how it looks somewhere else, but here, its very everybody is very, very, very, clearly sad and praying that nobody lost their life inside. An eyewitness to this tragedy, patrick bukalski. Joining me on the phone, American Students studying abroad. Theyre visiting paris on their spring break. Lindeeda, i hope im pronouncing your name correctly. You were on the eiffel tower, im told, watching parts of the cathedral collapse. T tell us about that. Yes, i was going up to the top of the eiffel tower with my friend, paige, and as we were going up, we saw lots of smoke billowing out from the middle of the city and i looked over and we heard people talking about notre dame. So we were getting multiple texts from our friends and family, just asking about what was going on, if we were safe, and just trying to figure out what was happening. We then found out about the fire there and i then took some photos and we were just like very confused, because earlier that day we actually had gone to notre dame and were standing in front of it and everything was completely fine. And paige, tell us about that. You visited notre dame. You walked by earlier today. What was it like there before the fire struck . Yeah, today it was beautiful. We just we walked on the entire thing, got to see the amazing sights. Everyone was eagerly going inside and looking at all of the views and we took some pictures. We were just so happy to be there, walking along the river and just taking in all the beauty. And then to be up on the top of the eiffel tower, so excited to see that view, but then to see this beautiful view that we had just experienced, just completely up in flames. The flames were getting worse as the hours went on. We just saw the flames even growing even greater. It was silent up at the top. It really was. People werent talking, i feel like they would have been. Paige, i want to make sure as we let you guys go, you have called home and let your moms and dads let you know that youre okay, right . Yes, they know that were safe. Good. Its just really amazing. Also, you could just smell the smoke and we looked through the telescopes and you could see the firefighters working and trying to contain the fire. It was very, very sad. Stay safe, ladies. We appreciate your time. We appreciate your calling in. Well have more on our breaking news coming up. Well take a quick break. Stay with us. Really . [horn honks] man this is what i feel like when i wear regular shoes, cramped and uncomfortable. We can arrange a little upgrade. Which is why i wear skechers. Wide fit shoes. They have extra room throughout. Theyre like a luxury ride for my feet. Try skechers wide fit shoes. Theyre like a luxury ride for my feet. Forget about vacuuming for weeks. 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Were going to bring you more as we learn it, but let us now turn to our politics lead for the day. The Justice Department Just Announced that they expect to release the redacted version of Robert Muellers report to congress and the public on thursday morning. The redacted report will no doubt set off questions about what is behind those censored black bars and a fight with House Democrats who want to see the entire report, with no redactions. President trump is seemingly as angry as ever, arguing today that the mueller investigators are the ones who should be investigated. Cnns abby phillip has more from the white house. Reporter President Trump today changing his tune on the mueller investigation, from this just a couple of weeks ago to now unleashing a series of furious attacks ahead of the reports thursday release, tweeting, the Mueller Report, which was written by 18 angry democrats, who also happen to be trump haters and clinton supporters, should have focused on the people who spied on my 2016 campaign, and others who fabricated the whole russia hoax. And since there was no collusion, why was there an investigation in the first place . As the president tweets his frustration, his lawyers are updating their rebuttal. Written months ago, anticipating that the report will not be redacted for executive privilege. White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders also downplaying the possibility that the full report could be more critical of the president than the fourpage summary released by the attorney general. I dont think it is going to be damaging to the president , because the entire purpose of the investigation was whether or not there was collusion. Mueller was Crystal Clear in the fact that there was no collusion. But he wasnt Crystal Clear on obstruction. They couldnt make a determination, which is basically muellers way, legally, of saying, we dont we cant find anything. Reporter meantime, the president is keeping up the drum beat on threats to bus undocumented immigrants to socalled sanctuary cities. Even after department of Homeland Security lawyers deemed that idea illegal. Well bring them to sanctuary city areas and let that particular area take care of it. Reporter and while he targets democrats in those cities and tries to take the focus off of mueller, its a subject he just cant stop tweeting about. Even attempting to redirect accusations of collusion and obstruction on to his former political opponents. Trump claiming, these were crimes committed by crooked hillary, the dnc, dirty cops, and others. And jake, rudy giuliani, the president s lawyer, says that the plan for the Mueller Report is going to be for them to release a short statement and then do something a little bit longer, once they have a sense of whats actually in the report. They plan on also potentially taking questions, according to dana bash, who smopoke to giulii over the weekend. So theyre planning on a multistage reaction to whatever is in that report, especially considering that they are making it clear that barr has not consulted the White House Counsels Office about what, if anything, in there they will be redacting. Abby phillips at the white house, thanks so much. Lets chew on all of this. The New York Times is reporting that President Trumps plan of attack is to act as if the report itself is extraneous to the letter written by the attorney general, bill barr. Its been three weeks since that letter was first released. Do you think that Public Opinion on this issue has solidified since then . Yes, i do, but i think we are forgetting what this is all about. Russians tried to interfere in our election, cand there is a story there, not just for trump, but for america, about how campaigns are influenced. I was very interested in what the barr memo said, is that there were multiple offers from the russians to assist the Trump Campaign. Good for them so far, it appears that the terra Trump Campaign resisted that, but i want to know how that worked, and i think that will be the big takeaway here. Its not just that they interfered, its that they actually interfered. And whether or not the Trump Campaign colluded, we know that they did have the assistance of the russians. And we know that from our own National Security infrastructure, that they are attempting again to do that. So its important to know, as you point out, amanda, what they were doing to know, are they trying to do it now and how are we trying to stop it . And bill, Sarah Sanders, you just heard her in the piece there, she said, basically, the report doesnt matter, because all that matters is whether or not that there was conspiracy and there was none, according to barrs summary. And quoting from mueller, and thats really all that matters. And all the evidence, apparently that came very close to leading mueller to conclude that there had been obstruction of justice doesnt matter. He didnt conclude there wasnt, he simply left it open for congress. Bill barr has his opinion. That is going to be very interesting. I agree that collusion was the initial question, the russian intervention was the initial thing, collusion was the initial question. But he was president of the United States. And that the account of what he did and didnt do as president , as president , to obstruct the truth in this case, i think, will be very interesting. And paul, the president and Sarah Sanders and all the rest are saying that attorney general barr has ruled on the obstruction issue and its done. But take a listen to the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, jerry nadler. He says, barr doesnt get to make that decision. The fact of the matter is, we should see and judge for for coe whether the president obstructed justice or not. And for the public, ultimately. Basically, hes saying that the legal determination by the attorney general is not, the point here is whats matter is the political determination by congress. Thats the question. Is the president above the law . Now, the Justice Department not the supreme court, the Justice Department has for decades ruled that a president cant be charged with a crime while in office. Im not a constitutional lawyer. I certainly accept that. That seems to be the better reading. But it means that we must have all the facts. Congress must have the facts. One of the things barr in his letter, while only quoting 75 words from mueller, not even one whole sentence, barr goes on and on about 60, which is a little arcane. Thats the rule that says that grand jury testimony is secret. Thats a really good rule, an important rule, but it must be waived when youre talking about a president , because a president cant be charged, right . So we waived it for nixon. In the nixon case, the judge waived the rule president. Clinton case, ken starr went to the judge, the judge waived all of that grand jury material needs to go to the congress so they can decide. If mr. Trump is right and this exonerates him, lets exonerate him fully lets get all the details of his innocence out before the american people, so this good and honorable man can clear his name. Sullied by the left. So sincere. Amanda, the day after the letter from barr came out, President Trump said mueller acted honorably, but now hes back to tweeting angrily, accusing muellers team of being, quote, dirty cops, saying, quote, investigate the investigators. So what changed from the day of barrs letter to, you know, on the eve or a few days from now, were going to get the actual report . Trump always acts to his own interests, but it would be interesting to follow him down these rabbit holes. Yes, there is a legitimate question about what surveillance was conducted on the campaign. I hope the report explains why. The bigger gray area question where we deserve answers goes back to the russian contacts. There were many contacts. What knowledge did trump have those of contacts . We still dont know. And how did that lead him to act in the public square, both as president and when he stood on that square and what changed is that the white house was briefed by the attorney general, somewhat surprisingly to me, i would say, over the last several days about at least the outlines of the report and they were obviously briefed that this report would be full or at least have some evidence or some evidence that the president wouldnt like. Thats whats changed. The president would believe the summary of the barr letter, and then the white house got a briefing from barr himself, and they reported back to the president and the president realized, oh, my goth its going to be hard to see, obviously, well be discussing this for days, but remember, barr very wisely was able, as you pointed out, paul, with just a few fragments of sentences, to really frame this conversation. And i say this as a communications person, not just as a partisan. They framed the nature of the conversation and the narrative from the beginning for the first 24 to 48 hours. Were still here discussing based on partial information. And that is what i think trump is counting on being able to do going forward, by saying, hes been exonerated. Coming up next, were going to talk to the first major republican whos going to take on President Trump in 2020. No, its not bill kristol. Stay with us. Oh no. Your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. Not quite ready to face the day . Thats why were here with free hot breakfast. Book at hampton. Com for our price match guarantee. Hampton by hilton. Book at hampton. Com for our price match guarantee. Behr presents outdone yourself. Staining be done. And stay done through every season. Behr semitransparent stain, overall 1 rated. Stay done for years to come. Find it exclusively at the home depot. Boom i fell 22 feet. I just remember climbing up the tree. Next thing i know, i hit the ground. Completely shattered my pelvis, in the middle of the woods. I called my wife, she thought i was jokin. I said, man, im not. Im not. I was so lucky that day. Saved my life. vo there for you when it matters most. Get unlimited on the best network, with apple music included. And save big when you switch. Only on verizon. When it comes to reducing the evsugar in your familys diet,m. Coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. Were working together to do just that. Bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. Smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. Because we know mom wants whats best. More beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. Balanceus. Org to save 30 on all the medications we carry. So go directly to petmeds. Com now. We have some breaking news in our 2020 lead. The former twoterm republican governor of massachusetts, bill weld, is here with me, live in studio, and mr. Weld has something to announce. Governor . Jake, im announcing thath im running for president of the United States as a republican against the president in 2020. Youre hoping to take him on in the primaries . In the primaries. I really think if we have six more years of the same stuff weve had out of the white house, that would be a tragedy and i would fear for the republic. I would be ashamed of myself if i didnt run myself and run. So President Trumps Reelection Campaign Just Announced they have raised 30 million in the first quarter. The Republican Party is has been reshaped to meet President Trumps desirous. He has the support within the party at nearly 90 . Do you really think you can defeat him in the primaries . I do. Ive done it before, particularly in New Hampshire, where im spending a lot of time. Its one vote at a time and one voter at a time. And youve got to meet them. But what we have now is a president who mocks the rule of law. I spent seven years in the Justice Department trying to keep the politics out of law enforcement. Hes trying to put it in. A president who says, we dont need a free press, who says, Climate Change is a complete hoax. Hes not paying attention. I doubt very much hes made a study of any of those issues, but he seems to have difficulty, in my opinion, and i was a prosecutor for quite a while, he has a difficulty conforming his conduct to the requirements of oval office. So, just in terms of your political strategy, you want to spend a lot of time in New Hampshire, and New Hampshire is a state where independents can vote in either primary. Its a crossover primary. New hampshire really all six new england states, the midatlantic states, california, oregon, washington, very receptive territory. The president is not well liked in california. The intermountain west, where i spent a lot of time in the last cycle. It would be a national campaign. 20 states do permit that crossover voting, which is more than a beach head, so im very much looking forward to the campaign. Anyone that wants to be helpful, weld2020. Org. The Mueller Report, you talked about, you served in the Justice Department, you know bob mueller. Bob was my deputy in the Justice Department. Hes the straightest guy ive ever met. Wonderful human being. Very thorough, very great prosecutor. So how much do you think of his report that were told is going to be released to the public and to Congress Thursday morning, how much do you think can be redacted and still be a credible presentation to congress . Its a piece of cake. All you really have to do is redact classified information and needlessly derogatory personal material. But thats not a great labor. I think the whole report should be made public, so that everybody can see it. Not just two committees of congress, but the American Public can see it. They paid for it. The president says hes been exonerated on these allegations of conspiracy with russia. And that you cant obstruct a crime that hasnt taken place, which obviously, the attorney general, bill barr, agrees with, to a degree. We know democrats in the House Judiciary Committee and elsewhere are going to keep investigating. Whats your take on the obstruction of justice charge and the president s claim that hes been exonerated . No, im not really buying that. And if i were the president of the United States and i had been found not guilty of one of 20 charges that could have been levied against me, im not sure i would be holding a press conference to celebrate that. And what do you make of the obstruction charge . In the Mueller Report, you know, i dont think the jury has come back on that one. But theres plenty of other potential witness tampering obstruction possibilities arising out of all the manafort and Michael Cohen material that has nothing to do with the Mueller Report. Let me give you the criticism that i think youre going to face. You are a republican from a different era in american history. You are a moderate republican. You were the massachusetts governor. You were able to work with democrats. You represent a sort of well, precisely country club republicanism. No, no, no, no, no. A republican who works across the aisle and gets things done. I was reelected with 71 of the vote because i brought everybody in. I would have a bipartisan cabinet if i get to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. And, you know, im an economic conservative. I was voted the most fiscally conservative governor in the United States by the wall street journal and the kato institute. I cut spending year over year. Donald trump is not an economic conservative. He doesnt even pretend to be. And, you know, its the country deserves to have some fiscal restraint and conservatism and cutting spending in washington, d. C. Right now, all there really is coming out of washington is divisiveness, and both parties are responsible for that, and bu the grand master of that is the president himself. Ive never seen such bitterness in this country. If you dont win the nomination, are you going to run as an independent . No. No, i dont think so. But i could not support donald trump for the president. Im not saying i would ever endorse a democrat in this race, but i could not support the president. Governor bill weld, thank you so much for making your announcement right here. We appreciate it. Our coverage on cnn continues right now. Happening now, breaking news. Notre dame destroyed. The 800yearold Notre Dame Cathedral, a symbol of paris, goes up in flames. Its iconic spire has fallen. The roof has collapsed. And the rest of the structure is at grave risk as emergency crews try to evacuate precious artwork. Still burning, the cathedral has been burning now for hours and an orange glow now lights up the sky over paris. Thousands of shocked onlookers are gathered while firefighters try desperately to save what remains of the