Kamala harris and 30 others. What are their messages to voters . Welcome to the lead, im jake tapper. We begin with the politics lead. A full bore criticism of President Trumps perceived lack of character from the u. S. Senates newest mitt romney. Its not how President Trump wanted to start the new year. And romney will be joining us in just minutes. The republicanonrepublican attack came as the Government Shutdown entered its 12th day. And right now President Trump is holding a meeting with a Bipartisan Group of congressional leaders in the situation room. Its the first time the incoming likely speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, and Senate Minority leader, Chuck Schumer, have been at the white house since President Trump declared this. I am proud to shut down the government for Border Security, chuck. I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. Im not going to blame you for it. That didnt last long. Many democrats say theyre skeptical this meeting will be more of a stunt. Going into this meeting, President Trump refused to say whether he would accept a deal that included less than 5 billion of funding for the border wall. And he declared the shutdown would continue for a long time, quote, as long as it takes. Meanwhile, the democraticcontrolled house is expected to pass its own plan to fund the government, just hours after the new congress is sworn in tomorrow. The white house called that plan a nonstarter. Cnns jessica dean at the white house. And jessica, its clear the president is trying to make this a security issue. And this meeting is being held in an unusual location, the situation room. Yeah, thats exactly right, jake. Youll remember the last time nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer were here, they were in the oval office. And today congressional Leadership Meeting with the president , as you mentioned, in the the situation room and getting a briefing from the department of homeland security. That meeting starting around 3 00, and were waiting for people to come out and hear a little bit about what went on in there. The big question is, will any actual negotiating take place in that meeting . All of the players are there for the first time in a really long time. But its unclear at this point if any deals will be made inside. Earlier today, President Trump convened his cabinet for the first full Cabinet Meeting of 2019. And top of mind inside that Cabinet Meeting was Border Security. We heard from every cabinet member that spoke, they were on the white houses message speaking about the border wall, Border Security, and immigration, how it affects their different agencies. And, again, as you mentioned, the president did take some questions, and he was asked if he would accept less than that 5. 6 billion hes been asking for for the wall. But refusing to say if he would accept anything less. Of course, mike pence offering the democrats 2. 5 billion. Several days ago, the democrats not taking that deal. So it remains to be seen, jake. But right now still pretty big ocean in between the democrats and republicans when it comes to this shutdown. Which now continues to drag on 800,000 people either furloughed or working without pay right now. Jessica dean at the white house, thank you so much. A reminder, were just minutes away from our live interview with senatorelect mitt romney. Before we get to that, lets discuss the potential ways out of this shutdown with my experts. Take a listen to the president defending the wall. The 5 billion 5. 6 billion approved by the house is such a small amount compared to the level of the problem. When you see that the democrats want to give away 12 billion extra, and were giving away 54 billion in foreign aid. So we give money to countries, but we dont give money to our own country, which is another thing that ive been complaining about. And were cutting that back. Its very unfair. Whats the holdup here . Why wont the democrats offer enough to make the white house satisfied that and reopen the government . Theyre willing to offer more when it comes to a broader Border Security package. But the wall and the wall that the president that the president wants has become this moral issue for the democratic party. They see it as a sign of something that america just shouldnt be. So theyre not willing to fund that part of what the president is calling for. And the two, while in dollar sense and budget sense may not be too far apart, if you look at the broader sheer size of the federal budget, the president is not willing to budge from the 5. 6 billion the house passed last year. And what was interesting to me in that long post we saw earlier today is that the president rejected his own the offer that his own Vice President , his own acting chief of staff had made to democrats. Pence and Mick Mulvaney offered a 2. 5 billion package to democrats as a show that, you know, we are willing to compromise. But the president went out there again and said thats not enough. So its another warning sign for congress. You know, you have to negotiate with the man himself and not his deputies. Its the second time this has happened, rick santorum. Because earlier, a few weeks ago, Vice President pence told republican senators, just pass a clean bill and well discuss the border wall later on. They did that. The Senate Passed it, and the president pulled out the rug from under him. Donald Trump Realizes this is not an issue of substance. This is not an issue that democrats yeah, they can say its a moral issue, they can say we think it doesnt work and all of these things. This is a purely political issue. The democrats do not want to give donald trump a win, because they think they will be punished by their base if they do so. And donald trump recognizes that, and so hes going to draw the line. And i think that thats not an unreasonable position. This is not about money. 5 billion and a 4 trillion this is nothing when it comes to money. This is a rounding error when it comes to money. It is a rounding error when it comes to policy. I mean, this is not a big you know, something fundamentally different that were already doing. This is pure politics, and donald trump recognizes that, and hes going to play the card. So nancy pelosi, the likely speaker, says that she will introduce a clean bill, the 1. 3 billion in Border Security funding. Not for the wall, but for other elements of Border Security. Theyll send that to the senate and will likely die. Right. Because Mitch Mcconnell has said he wont support anything or put anything forward that President Trump wont sign. So thats pretty bold and brave of him. Certainly. Look, i think i agree that this is a very political issue thats the core of what it is. But if youre nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer, why are you going to you have all the leverage at this point in time. Nancy pelosi is about to be elected speaker of the house tomorrow. Shes not going to fold now. And you have they have the majority of the public with them that does not think that President Trump should be shutting down the government over the wall. So theres not really incentive for them to give him the money he wants at this point. And i certainly dont think coming out of this meeting they will. And jeremy, the president says hes not budging, 5. 6 billion. Thats what he wants. And yet he also tweeted of pelosi, Border Security and the wall thing and shutdown is not where nancy pelosi wanted to start her tenure as speaker. Lets make a deal . So hes trying to make a deal at the same time hes saying hes not budging from 5. 6 billion and undercutting Vice President pence when he offers 2. 5 billion. Right. And with undercutting Vice President pence on that offer, what we see there is what weve seen throughout trumps presidency. Is what he likes to be. He likes to be unpredictable. He likes to maintain this kind of flexibility and uncertainty that goes everywhere. You know, when hes dealing with china, for example, the chinese have similar questions. You know, you have different views within the administration on trade. The chinese arent quite sure what the Trump Administration position is. Democrats are perhaps feeling a little bit of the same kind of whiplash now, where they have one word coming from Vice President pence and the acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, and another from the president himself. Will the president ultimately be willing to fold, to compromise in some way . That is ultimately the question. Because i think as jen said, the democrats feel they have an extremely strong hand to play right now. Its a unifying issue coming into this majority. And, again, what we saw today, lamar alexander, republican senator, he put forward three options that could move past this shutdown impasse. None of those involved what the president is asking for, 5. 6 billion. So i think among republicans who are not necessarily in the president s base and his core constituency, certainly an acknowledgment that the 5 billion of wall funding or perhaps even less than that is just not possible. And sung minn, almost a million americans are either furloughed so not being paid or working without pay. Many government workers who dont make all that much money and some do live paycheck to paycheck. And its unclear when and if and how this is going to end. Take a listen to President Trump when asked how long the shutdown might continue. How long are you willing to keep the government shut down . As long as it takes. Look, im prepared. I think the people of the country think im right. Is there any polling to support the people of the think like a man hes right . I know that polling supports the idea they oppose the border wall. Hes clearly looking at his own political base. Because shutdowns are never popular, and also i think the other thing to remember too is that while federal workers, a lot of them who may live paycheck to paycheck, could forego their first paycheck as they come in every two weeks or so, there are also going to be federal contractors who arent going to be guaranteed the back pay, either. Generally with past shutdowns, we have seen that. Congress does restore federal workers back pay, but not necessarily for contractors. There are a lot more people affected than just the 800,000 out there. But the president i mean, the fact we dont know how long this is going to go on for i was thinking about the last couple of shutdowns. And the shutdown in 2013 over defunding of obamacare, what really got everyone together was that there was a debt limit deadline that really members of congress did not want to broach. They could they could stomach a shutdown for, you know, 15, 16 days, but once that x date hit the debt limit, all right, well make a deal. There is no forcing mechanism like that now. And both sides are very dug in and willing to ride this out for as long as it takes. The president is not long on empathy. So i dont think that any of the stories about people not getting their i dont think thats going to have any impact on him. But it affects people like you who, you know except when you were an officeholder, senators, members of the house, who start getting besieged with please just end the shutdown, i support the wall, but i need a paycheck and then all of a sudden, you know, hes thats going to happen on both sides. Its not just going to be republicans. Democrats are going to feel it. And a lot of them are their constituency, if you will. So i think the president feels like he can weather this storm, because hes not really concerned about the people calling him and saying, you know, i cant pay, you know cant pay my bills, or im going to lose my house. Again, hes not very long on empathy. So i dont think thats going to matter. I think he feels like hes going to hes this is the issue. He wants to set the template for how this congress is going to work with the democrats in charge. I dont think hes going to back down. All right. Everyone stick around. Today the president said he hopes that senatorelect mitt romney will be a team player. But after romneys scathing oped, slamming the president s character or lack thereof, will the incoming senator ever play nice with mr. Trump . Senatorelect romney is here. Hell join me next. Stay with us. clients voice oww, it hurts. danny . That youre not using smarter tools to manage your business. You work too hard to work this hard collecting receipts . Is it the 80s . Does anybody have a mixtape i can borrow . You should be chasing peoples pets. Not chasing payments quickbooks gives you a sweet set of business tools. That do all the hard work for you. You may groom corgis, but you dont have to work like a dog. vo you earned it, were here to make sure you get it. danny its time to get yours. vo quickbooks. Backing you. At to cover the essentialsyou have in retirement, as well as all the things you want to do. Because when youre ready for what comes next, the only direction is forward. 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That critique coming from incoming republican senator and 2012 gop president ial romney, mitt romney, finding fault with the president s honest and integrity or lack thereof. Romney writing, quote, president ial leadership and qualities of character is indispensable, and it is in this province where the incumbents shortfall has been most glaring. Joining me is utahs senator romney, who will officially be sworn in tomorrow. Senatorelect, thank you for being here. Thanks, jake. Good to be with you. So why write this oped and why do it now . I actually wrote a very similar oped before i got into the primary in utah and laid out my views with regards to the president and his presidency. And noted that i will work with the president , as i would, frankly, with any president , which is on those areas where im in agreement, well be able to Work Together. Where i disagree, ill point that out. But in matters that relate to the divisiveness thats been part of our political environment, ill speak out if i feel a need to, if there is something significant. And i think its important, as i begin this new job, to make it very clear where i stand. And i also note that the departure of secretary mattis and the decision to pull out of syria and the abrupt way it was done was a precipitating event for my finally going on this record. I want to talk about syria in a minute. But i do want to focus on the oped for a second. A senior white house official told me today that the president was disappointed that you, even before you were sworn in, would go after him instead of joining him and going after democrats in the shutdown. Whats your response to that . Well, with regards to the shutdown, ill be with republicans on that front, which is i think its important for us to secure the border. At the same time, what i did in my oped was not just talk about the president and my relationship with him and how well Work Together, but also i laid out my perspectives and priorities in a very broad basis, on everything from trade to china to our allies around the world, immigration and so forth. So i think its important as you begin a new job to describe exactly what you hope to accomplish, and thats what i did. The president mentioned you in his Cabinet Meeting today. Heres just a little bit of what he had to say. I wish mitt could be more of a team player. Im surprised he did it this quickly. If he fought really hard against president obama, like he does against me, he would have won the election. Whats your response . Whats your thought when you see that . Well, the president , of course, is entitled to his perspectives, his own views. And i respect his right to express those things. Just as i do. And well Work Together on things that i think are in the best interest of the country and my state. And where we disagree, why well just have to disagree. He seemed to note that other senators who had come before you to criticize him, jeff flake from arizona, bob corker from tennessee, suddenly arent in the u. S. Senate any more. Even though they wanted to be there forever. It seemed to be like a vague threat, not that he would necessarily get rid of you, but that the base would adone done y abandon you if youre not with him. If people come in with the hope of staying forever, theyre making a huge mistake. The idea is people would come representing the people that elected them and also representing the views and values they have. And i come to washington with that perspective. And im really not looking for the next election and the next spot. Im looking to try and represent things i think our country needs at a critical time. And i do believe that a president like any leader in a home, in a church, in a school, in a business, a leader has an impact, not just on policies, but also on the character of the people who get to watch that person. And i think thats an area that the president needs to focus more attention and hopefully make some changes there. And, by the way, i expect people will have some suggestions for how i could do a better job, too, and im open to that. When you say you have issues with his character and that he lacks integrity and honesty, what specifically has he done that has bothered you . What is the rhetoric that has come from his mouth, his actions, that trouble you the most . Well, over the course of the last two years, i have put out a number of statements that relate to things that were of great concern to me. The charlottesville response by the president was something that gave me great concern. The support for roy moore in the senate race was something i was very, very concerned about. His attack on the media. I wrote an entire piece about that. So ive laid out time and again places where i disagree with the president. And i think its very important for a president to demonstrate the qualities of integrity and honesty forthrightness, empathy and respect for the institutions of our democratic republic. I think those are all parts of the job. And while i agree with them on a lot of policy fronts and salute the work thats been done by the Republican Leadership in washington, there are places that relate to the if you will, forming of National Character that i think we could do a better job. Well, youve called him a fraud. In 2016, you gave a very strong speech in the was it in utah or arizona, calling him a fraud. Some people who are allied with the president , some people who are not allied with the president , say, hey, you know, the president endorsed you in your senate race, and you accepted the endorsement. The president pointed that out today. You interviewed for a job with him to be potentially secretary of state. What changed . Why were you willing to talk to him and accept his endorsement when you have all these reservations about him . Well, you know, after he was elected president , it was very much my hope that he would rise to the occasion, rise to the mantle of the office. After all, becoming president of the United States is quite an elevation for anybody. And he has said during the campaign that he could be extraordinary president ial. When i hear that, i think of washington and lincoln and jefferson and roosevelt and kennedy and eisenhower. And i think of those qualities. And i think that while he spoke of that, and while that was my hope, i dont think hes followed through on that front the way hes followed through on some of his other promises. Do you regret accepting his endorsement when he sent that tweet . He was endorsing me. I wasnt endorsing him. And i havent decided who im going to endorse in 2020. Im going to see what the alternatives are. Because the senior senator from utah, mike lee, said hes likely going to endorse the president. I think its early to make that decision and i want to see what the alternatives are. But i pointed out, there are places where we agree on a whole series of policy fronts, but there are places that i think the president can if you will, elevate his game. And do a better job to help bring us together as a nation. Is there any chance you might emerge as an alternative to President Trump and run against him for president in the primaries in 2020 . No. You may have heard, i ran before. Ive had that experience. And, by the way, i acknowledge the president was successful. And i was not. He did something i couldnt do. He won. And i recognize that and appreciate that. But no, im not running again. And well see whether someone else does in a republican primary or not. But time will tell. You said in march of 2016, because there was a whole big thing in 2012, kids out there might not remember this. But when you ran for president , donald trump wanted to endorse you, you wanted him to endorse you. And there was an event in las vegas. And you accepted his endorsement. And then in march 2016, you wrote in a tweet, if trump had said four years ago the things he says today about the clan, muslims, mexicans, disabled, i would not have accepted his endorsement. Now, some people point out, okay, he hadnt said those things, but he was the nations leading birther, pushing the lie that barack obama, the first africanamerican president , was born in africa. Again, a lie. And you accepted his endorsement even though that was his political claim to fame. Was that a mistake . You know, im sure ive made a lot of mistakes. Is that one of them . I will let the people make the assessment of which things were mistakes and not. But when the president of the United States, frankly of either party were to say im endorsing your candidacy, i think you would say thank you very much. But i have pointed out i think pretty consistently throughout the years, the places where ive disagreed with candidate donald trump and now President Trump. And ill continue to do so. And hopefully there will be fewer of those occasions. I dont tend to be a daily commentator, to be someone who stops every evening in the hall of the senate and looks for the nearest camera and says what i think about the president s tweet or fault of the day. But if there is a matter of great significance, ill speak out on that. And sometimes its a difficult call. Yeah, how do you decide that . You have to make that decision. And people will say, well, this is different than the last time. Its like, well, you make your decision as best as you possibly can. But i know what my principles are, what i think is right for the country. And i know that right now the country is as divided as ive ever seen it. People in many respects are angry and resentful. And they want to see leaders who can unite us and push through those things. And deal with the challenges we have, with our excessive spending, the budget being out of alignment, the immigration mess we have, our education challenges, our health care needs. There are so many things they want to see us do that these other things get in the way, and i would like to be able to focus on the things that are most important and remove some of the divisiveness and anger and bitterness that exist in politics today. I want to move on to some of the substantive issues, but i do have to ask you. The chairwoman of the Republican National committee, rona romney mcdaniel, your older brother scotts daughter, she tweeted about your criticism. And she wrote, quote, on twitter, for an incoming republican freshman senator to attack real donald trump as their first act, and is disappointing and is unproductive. Were you surprised . I know you gave her a heads up that the oped was coming. Were you surprised she publicly criticized you . No, shes the chairwoman of the Republican Party. She has a responsibility. I respect her right to express that viewpoint. Its probably more if you will, civil than it might have been across the thanksgiving dinner table. Because we, of course, have disagreements in our family. But shes a very loyal republican. Loyal to the president. And shes doing what she thinks is best for him and for the party. One of the criticisms this is my last trump question. One of the criticisms about people who have come before you, republican senators, consciouses of the party, jeff flake, bob corker, generally speaking, there would be tisk tisktisk tisking, but no action. There is one a couple of exceptions. Bob corker pushed forward some sanctions against russia as chairman of the Senate Foreign relations committee. And jeff flake stopped voting for judges until Mitch Mcconnell would bring forward the bill to protect robert mueller. He ended up putting a hold on judges indefinitely. Are you prepared to take actions as opposed to just expressing dismay if the moment calls for it . Well, the answer is, i will support those positions that i agree with, and i will oppose and vote against things i disagree with. But i dont think you go to washington saying, well, im actually going to cut off my nose to spite my face. Im going to vote against people who i actually would support, just to be tough on the president. That doesnt make any sense. No, but if there is a moment. If you want the mueller protection bill to be voted on. If you want sanctions against russia passed. Well, you look at items that you actually think are right, as opposed to things that are just symbolic or punitive to the president. There is no reason to poke anybody, republican or democrat, in the eye, just to make a statement. Were in washington after all, to try and make a difference for the american people. And just doing things symbolically that hurt someone youre opposed to doesnt make any sense, in my opinion. I could express my viewpoints. But if there are places that the president wants one thing and i think thats wrong, ill vote with my conscience, not with his. All right. The substance is coming up. Were going to take a quick break. You have a lot to say about the president personally, but you agree with him on policy. The border wall, pulling troops out of syria. Were going to get to that next. Stay with us. 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And were back with republican senatorelect of utah, mitt romney, only the second person in the history of this nation to have been the governor of one state and the senator of another. Sam houston from texas, you were saying. Uhhuh, yeah. So were in the middle of a Government Shutdown right now. President trump is insisting on 5. 6 billion for a border wall. Democrats are refusing to give it to him. Tomorrow democrats in the house are going to offer a clean government funding bill. 1. 3 billion for Border Security. Not for the wall. The shutdown now in its 12th day. Nearly 1 million federal workers going without pay. Do you want the house bill to go to the floor of the senate so you can vote on it . Whats the path out of this . Well, theres the substance and then theres the symbolism. And clearly, if the president were able to get a 5 billion check to build the wall, that would look like a huge win for republicans and a big loss for democrats. And its very hard to get democrats to vote for Something Like that. So there has to be some kind of deal done, where the democrats get something and the republicans get something. Thats the way things are done in washington. At least thats what i have read. Right. About things getting done in washington. I havent been here long enough to know. But i think that has to happen. Or find some other way to get things open again, and then look for some kind of a deal, where, again, both sides get something. And it has to be a winwin. You have a hard time getting a winlose going through the senate where you need a number of democrat votes to get something to become law. One of the big problems, and i suspect you will discover this as you become a dealmaker in the senate is that President Trumps team will try to negotiate and then theyll be undercut by President Trump. Vice president pence offered democrats 2. 5 billion for the border wall, and President Trump i dont think the democrats were going to go for it anyway. But President Trump undercut it. Earlier Vice President pence told republicans in the senate, just pass a clean funding bill. The president will sign it, and the president didnt sign it. I mean, thats going to be a problem. Well, im not going to step in and say, okay, heres how the president should negotiate his priorities. Thats something hes going to do on his own and the way he thinks is most effective. He has his negotiating style. Im sure other people have theirs. But i will go back to the basic premise, which is it has to be winwin. And you go back and look at the history of great pieces of legislation that moved the nation forward. It took republicans and democrats coming together to make that happen, unless one party was lucky enough to have 60 votes in the senate all by itself. Right. And then you could do Something Like obamacare. Other than that, you have to come together. Republican senator, bob corker, who is retiring or has retired, told me a few days ago this border wall is not about national security, its about the president trying to look tough politically. Take a listen. This is a madeup fight, so the president can look like hes fighting. Even if he wins, our borders are going to be insecure. Corkers whole argument is this entire shutdown is unnecessary. This is not about securing border. This is about the president trying to look tough and people are now going without paychecks. Well, i think its unfortunate that the government is shut down. This has an impact, obviously, on a lot of people that arent getting paychecks. But also a lot of others that are planning on going to a national park, businesses that house people going to national parks. People inconvenienced here in washington that want to get to the smithsonian will find that closed. It has a big impact. Its very unfortunate. But i think the president is very sincere when he says he wants to secure the border. Its going to have to be worked out on a bipartisan basis. Clearly, we have to have a more secure border. And i think that really should focus on the everify system, which basically penalizes employers if they hire people here illegally. Do you think the shutdown is worth it for the president s border wall . Well, hes got to make that assessment himself. But what do you think . You now represent people who are not getting paychecks. Let me tell you. I would vote for the border wall. Ive made that part of my platform for many, many years. I think we should have a border wall on our southern border, and whether its a wall or fence or technology and perhaps in some cases the natural landscape prevents people from coming in easily. But weve got to secure our border. We have to do more in terms of our everify system, visa tracking systems, and make it easier in some respects for people to come here legally and work temporarily and then go home. Particularly in the agriculture industry. In utah, we rely on a lot of people coming in to harvest crops and so forth. We ought to let that be guided by what the states need as opposed to what the federal government imposes on them. You said that you were d dismayed by President Trumps decision in december to pull troops out of syria, which resulted in the resignations of both the defense secretary, jim mattis, and special envoy to defeat isis, brett mcgurk. Why is he making a mistake . Well, the reason that were in involved is to make the world safer, which is good for the world and good for us. Because we trade with places throughout the world. We sell products throughout the world. People come and go into our various countries, and we share not only culture, but education, technology, innovation. And so having a stable world where we can conduct trade is a very good thing for us and for the world. And so were in syria with a very small footprint, about 2,000 people to help our allies there, the kurds. And in some respects, to provide some stability to that region so that assad or erdogan or the russians or the you know, the iranians dont rush in and slaughter people. Slaughter our allies. So so pulling out on a precipitous basis without interacting with them and coordinating this with them and getting the input, for instance, from secretary mattis, is something which i think is very troubling to me and to a number of others. I hear you on the precipitous nature of it all. And not consulting with allies. But what do you make of the general argument that the United States cant be the policeman of the world, and were now involved in this neverending war. Weve been in afghanistan since 2001. It is now what year is it, 2019 . Were approaching the 18th year of this war. That means there will be people who were born before 9 11 before long who will be fighting in afghanistan. When does it end . What do you tell your constituents when they say, we cant do this forever . And the answer is, you cant be everywhere forever. But you do place our troops and our military might in places where hopefully theyre not involved in conflict in a kinetic way, but they are able to provide stability in a region which is good for hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. And at the same time, its good for us. And so were involved in the world. We have hundreds of thousands of fighting men and women. Were not going to have them all just sitting home, hoping nothing happens. No, we actually station them in various places to keep bad things from happening. Thats why theyre in the dmz or next to the dmz and south korea. And thats to make sure that we keep stability there. Because we dont want to have someone rush in and create a war, which throws the entire economy and a lot of people into pain. So thats one of the reasons we have troops around the world. But are we going to be the policemen, no. But are we part of an effort to make sure the world is stable and is that in our interest . Yes. Its in americas interest. It has been our strategy. The brettenwoods idea, we would encourage free trade throughout the world and stability in the world and we had the might to be able to do that. Thats why we have our aircraft carriers going in these oceans, to provide stability. Its good for us and its good for the world. I want to turn to russia. The president today said that, quote, the reason russia was in afghanistan was because terrorists were going into russia. They were right to be there. Unquote. Thats a view of the soviet invasion that is false. Its just not what happened. But beyond that, what do you make of the divide between the president s pro putin, pro russia rhetoric in many ways versus his argument that he has done more than obama in other ways, such as arming the ukrainians and imposing sanctions. The sanctions are being imposed. Do you think he is being tougher on the russians, as tough as you want him to be . Well, i think its important to be cleareyed with regards to Vladimir Putin. And russia has a real problem. Their population is shrinking. Their work force is shrinking. John mccain used to say that they are a gas station parading as a country. And theyre in trouble. And as a result, pooutin is looking for more of an economic industrial base. So hes looking at the former satellite states of the soviet union. And america has to make it very, very clear in our communication and in the things we do that thats not acceptable to us and to the world. That he cant go invading other nations. Since world war ii, theres only one major power thats been invading neighbors, and thats been russia going into georgia, going into ukraine. And this is simply unacceptable. I think that president obama didnt handle it as well as he could have. And i think its very important for this president to make it clear to Vladimir Putin, we will not accept forays. Im going to call it as i see it with regards to actions that occur. I would have been, i think, probably inclined to a more aggressive rhetoric, opposing mr. Putin. I think its important for the leader of the free world to point out the nations that kill members of the media, that do not tolerate dissent, are not the nations that were going to align with. And that Vladimir Putin has been a very unfortunate and awful leader. Before i let you go, a lot of people out there want to know how youre doing. You battled Prostate Cancer not long ago. Obviously, your lovely wife ann has had her issues with multiple sclerosis over the years. How is your health . Fortunately, were doing very, very well. Thats not were doing very, very well, and in particular, she keeps very healthy and very strong. And im doing just fine, as well. Senatorelect, i hope youll continue to come here and talk to us. We really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Thanks, good to be with you. Well talk about what we just heard from senatorelect romney with the panel next. Stay with always. Your insurance rates skyrocket after a scratch so small you could fix it with a pen. How about using that pen to sign up for new insurance instead . For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise their rates because of their first accident. Switch and you could save 782 on home and auto insurance. Call for a free quote today. Liberty mutual insurance. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Moments ago, mitt romney was here for his First National interview and his first interview, period, since slamming President Trump in an oped. He told me hes not yet sold on President Trumps reelection. He was endorsing me. I wasnt endorsing him. And i havent decided to endorse in 2020. Im going to wait and see what the alternatives are. Im going to wait and see what the alternatives are. Lets chat about this with the panel. Needless to say, when you have an incumbent president who is running for reelection, has declared he has is running for reelection and you are of that party, that is a bold statement that he hasnt decided whether or not to endorse him. Sure. Well, i will say for mitt romney, hes very good at reading the political headwinds and following the political weathervane. And, you know, hes leaving his options open, which i think many republicans are privately, as well. So hes saying it publicly, and i guess thats should be given some credit. But, i mean, reading his oped, theres not much yes, trump doesnt like to be criticized, hes a very sensitive guy, but hes basically saying, im with you on your policy issues. Domestic domestically. Or the points he talks about in the oped. So, you know, thats the reason a lot of democrats are sort of rolling their eyes about this. But he gets credit, maybe his team gets credit for effectively creating some buzz for him as he gets sworn in tomorrow. What do you think . Republicans are republicans who dont like what he did, as well. Yeah. Look, i dont think theres much news here. I mean, the one piece that you mentioned, that he isnt endorsing the president for 2020 is maybe a little bit of news. But, you know, mitt romney, in his interview laid out very conventional republican points of view on a whole variety of issues. Some of which the president has departed from, particularly on Foreign Policy. So, i mean, i actually thought it was a fairly unremarkable i mean, not in a bad way unremarkable interview in the sense that mitt romney is going to be a republican. And donald trump as mitt romney and the Republican Party has been for a long time. Donald trump is changing that. And i think mitt is saying, i may not be going there with him. And thats something that is pretty broadbased within the party right now. There is a real struggle. And i think mitt will be with the establishment wing, not the trump wing. But where there is overlap, hell go along. And yet a lot of that establishment wing did not support donald trump for president. Cory gardner, ben sasse, rob portman. I dont want to overstate what mitt romney has done, but, i mean, if he cant get this establishment wing on board for 2020, that is a potential problem for President Trump. Exactly. What i found interesting, too, in the interview is that where he was the most forceful and confident is when he was speaking about Foreign Policy. And i think thats really where hes going to try to make his mark in the senate. Sources have told me that he is angling for a spot on the Senate Foreign relations committee, which would naturally give that platform to talk about russia and north korea, particularly if the president shows some signs of cozying up to russia as he has previously on that issue. But just the whole thing i find pretty remarkable. Because there is this timehonored tradition of senators keeping their head down once elected to the senate. You know, al franken, for instance. And Hillary Clinton for a while. And Hillary Clinton for a while, as well. And clearly, mitt romney is not taking that. And take a listen, jeremy, to some of the things that incoming senator mitt romney said really bothered him about President Trumps first two years. The charlottesville response by the president was something that gave me great concern. The support for roy moore in the senate race was something i was very, very concerned about. His attack on the media. I wrote an entire piece about that. So ive laid out time and again places where i disagree with the president , and i think its very important for a president to demonstrate the qualities of integrity and honesty, forthrightness, empathy and respect for the institutions of our democratic republic. Honesty, integrity. I mean, i think he is saying hes not going to criticize the president for every little tweet, but going to be a thorn in his side. I think thats what we learned the most about mitt romney from this interview, is what kind of senator hes going to be, how hes going to respond to the president. Hes not going to be senator jeff flake. Hes not going to offer the same kind of fiery remarks that we heard from bob corker or the late senator john mccain. But he is going to stake out ground and stake out differences with the president when he thinks its important. And, again, i think its on Foreign Policy in particular where we really heard senator romney senatorelect romney is going to be focused on. And there is perhaps a void there. There is some space for him to fill, you know, given senator mccains passing. Bob corker leaving the senate, as well. Definitely space for romney. And jeff flake, as well. A lot of the critics are gone. Hes clearly emerging in that lane. Thanks, one and all, for being here. Retired or fired. President trump changing his story on the departure of james mattis. And the not so slow withdrawal from syria. What is really happening behind the scenes at the pentagon. Next. I am not for colds. I am not for just treating my symptoms. ahchoo i am for shortening colds when im sick. With zicam. Zicam is completely different. Unlike most other cold medicines. Zicam is clinically proven to shorten colds. I am a zifan for zicam. Oral or nasal. Life isnt a straight line. Things happen. And sometimes you can find yourself heading in a new direction. But at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected with Retirement Planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. Because when youre with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. In our world lead, you may have noticed the president went from demanding a 30day withdrawal from syria to agreeing to give the pentagon four months. Tweeting, quote, were slowly sending our troops back home to be with their families. Trump allies point to this as a slow down or a pause. But it isnt. Multiple and foreign sources tell me 120 days is the minimum amount of time it will take to pull out u. S. Troops and u. S. Equipment, and in the words of one pentagon official, quote, not get everyone killed. The president s decision is still causing much concern among top officials of his own government, who are concerned about isis resurging, and as Barbara Starr reports, this all lands on the desk of the new acting secretary of defense. The first cabinet reporter on patrick shanahans first day as acting defense secretary, President Trump focused more on the man he just replaced, now former secretary james mattis. But whats he done for me . How has he done in afghanistan . Not too good. President obama fired him, and essentially so did i. Reporter mattis, however, resigned after having his advice ignored by the president , according to sources directly familiar with mattis thinking. Now shanahan takes on the burden of figuring out trumps changing rhetoric on pulling 2,000 Ground Troops from syria, which the president described as were talking about sand and death. Thats what were talking about. Were not talking about, you know, vast wealth. Were talking about sand and death. Reporter now the president insisting, he has no specific timetable for pulling troops out. Over a period of time. I never said im getting out tomorrow. Reporter but in a white houseproduced video just last month, trump was adamant on an immediate troop withdrawal. Theyre all coming back. And theyre coming back now. Reporter for his part, shanahan today remained focused on the white houses message about Border Security. The threat is real. The risks are real. We need to control our borders. Reporter but commanders say it could take as long as four months to get troops out of syria safely. He made the decision first and then started looking for things to either back it up or run contrary to what he thought. Thats confusing to not only our allies, but also our foes, and its especially confusing for the military people. Reporter so did trump fire mattis . Well, he did make him leave two months earlier than the secretary had planned, but the secretary had already resigned. Jake . All right, Barbara Starr at the pentagon. Thank you so much. You can follow me on facebook and twitter jake tapper. You can tweet the sh show theleadcnn. Welcome back to everyone, and happy new year. Happening now. Breaking news. Refusing to budge. President Trump Doubles down on the Government Shutdown, saying his border wall is needed for national security, and that hell hold out as long as it takes. Congressional leaders, can they make a difference . Family feud. After mitt romney questions his character, President Trump hits back, saying, i won big, and he didnt. While romneys niece, who chairs the Republican National committee, sides with the president , dismissing her uncle as just a freshman senator. Sand and death. President Trump Defends his decision to pull u. S. Troops