Transcripts For CNNW The 20240703

His Home State Governor is now urging the democrat to resign from the u. S. Senate. This as menendez has already been forced to step down at least for now as the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. First lets go to cnns kara scannell. Shes outside the courthouse in new york where the charges were announced. Kara, the new jersey governor isnt the only one calling for menendez to resign. Reporter theres a growing chorus of lawmakers frommage new jersey calling for Senator Menendez to step down. Thats after federal prosecutors announced this allegedly brazen bribery scheme. They detailed how an fbi search of the senators home turned up the proceeds of this alleged crime. Some of the cash was stuffed in the senators jacket pockets. Reporter indicted again. New jersey senator bob menendez facing corruptionrelated charges for the second time in ten years. Prosecutors announcing a threecount federal indictment against the democratic senator and his wife over their dealings with three new jersey associates and businessmen starting in at least 2018. The senator and his wife accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars of bribes. In exchange for Senator Menendez using his power and influence to protect and to enrich those businessmen. Reporter the alleged bribes include more than 550,000 in cash hidden in the senators home and safe deposit box. A mercedesbenz convertible. And gold bars worth tens of thousands of dollars, among other things. The indictment also alleges the Senate Foreign Relations Committee chair, quote, provided sensitive u. S. Government information and took other steps that secretly aided the government of egypt. Behind the scenes Senator Menendez was doing those things for certain people. The people who were bribing him and his wife. Reporter the senator not new to scandal issued a defiant statement in response to the u. S. Attorneys latest allegations. I have been falsely accused before because i refuse to back down to the Powers That Be and the people of new jersey were able to see through the smoke and mirrors and recognize i was innocent. Menendez has long maintained his innocence in this latest probe into his dealings, telling cnn back in april this inquiry will end up, i believe, in absolutely nothing. Reporter the senator faced similar Corruption Charges in 2015 related to political favors. To those who were digging my political grave so that they could jump into my seat, i know who you are and i wont forget you. Reporter that case ended in a mistrial, a partial acquittal, and all charges against the senator being dropped. In this latest Case Menendez remains defiant saying he wont be, quote, distracted by baseless accusations. Now, prosecutors allege that menendez had used his position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to aid egypt. Specifically they allege he helped ghostwrite a letter that the egyptians sent to other senators to try to convince them to lift a hold on nearly 300 million in aid to egypt. Now, the other three defendants have not responded to these allegations. One of the businessmen said he would fight these allegations in court. All five defendants are due back here in court on wednesday. And wolf, the u. S. Attorneys office stressed that this investigation is still ongoing. Interesting. Kara scannell in new york for us. Thank you very much. Lets get some more on all of this. Our legal analysts Elliot Williams and joey jackson are with us. Also with us our senior political analyst gloria borger. Gloria, the democratic governor of new jersey says Senator Menendez should resign. And just last hour democratic congresswoman Abigail Spanberger told me shes also calling for his resignation. Clearly this is a very, very significant development. Oh, yeah. And also, wolf, the leader of the state Democratic Party in new jersey has now called for him to resign. So you can see whats brewing in the state of new jersey. You know, menendez is a powerful senator and this was supposed to be a safe seat. Right . Hes up again in this next cycle. Its supposed to be a safe seat. And now theyve got to make a decision whether they say to him we dont want you to run on the ticket or just let him run as he says he wants to do. In the senate its been much more muted. Chuck schumer is saying everyone is innocent until until found guilty. And that is of course true. And he stepped aside as chairman. So you dont hear the chorus coming from the club of the senate. Not yet, at least. House members have spoken out, as you point out. But whats really important is whats going on in the state of new jersey when you have the governor and the head of the state Democratic Party both saying he should resign. Interesting. Elliot williams is with us. Elliot, what stands out to you about these very serious allegations against Senator Menendez . Reporter a lot of things stand out about the allegations, wolf. I think the challenge for prosecutors is really going to be to establish not just that these things happen but that there was some nexus between gifts and favors presented to Senator Menendez and his official actions. I think what stands out to that effect are some of the colorful details. For instance, the fact that youre dealing with gold bricks and big was of cash. Neither of which are themselves unlawful to purchase. But when considered in the context of other conduct just simply raises flags and certainly will not look good in front of a jury. With respect to this letter that was that he ghostdrafted for other senators, an important detail in the indictment is that he uses his personal email address to transact about it. Now, again, senators are free to use the personal email but they have official email addresses and the mere use of some mode of communication which appears to have been a way of evading further scrutiny is itself the kind of thing that will look bad in front of a jury. So all of those details do paint a pretty broad picture. And really do suggest if not criminal behavior certainly behavior thats not befitting someone being a United States senator. Let me get joey jackson into this conversation. Joey, i want to get your thoughts on something that democratic congresswoman Abigail Spanberger just told me in the last hour here in the Situation Room about the allegations against Senator Menendez. Listen to this. To you as a former cia officer does it sound like espionage from your perspective . So from an indictment standpoint, from a Legalese Standpoint ill defer to the Justice Department and the fbi on that. But certainly as a former Intel Officer we collected information and we paid people for that information. So in the simplest of terms, yes. Simple answer, this is a former cia officer, joey, accusing the senator of espionage when he provided this assistance to egypt. Do you agree . Yeah, wolf, i dont know that i agree with that. Remember, im speaking from a Defense Perspective. And from a defense, i think you need a connection. Elliot was speaking to that issue earlier. I think there has to be a nexus between the conduct alleged and the actual activities engaged in. What do i mean . It is the sole essence of a senators job to represent constituents, to do what you do on behalf of them, to do it forcefully. And so now theyre making an attempt, that is, the government, believed to suggest that there was a quid pro quo. Now, if you suggest or you say that, then i want to see the connection. Are there emails with respect to i will act in the event, for example, that you pay me money . I will act if you give me gold bars . I will act if you line my pockets . So i would really make the argument that this is not espionage. To the issue of people telling him to resign, you know, its about due process. These are accusations. An indictment is an allegation. That allegation has to be substantiated in a court of law by a jury of your peers which finds you guilty. Thats not the essence of the evidence in an indictment in a grand jury. So i dont think we can jump to conclusions with respect to his guilt or with respect to him being engaging in espionage. He from a Defense Perspective was representing his constituents forcefully, and that i think will be his attorneys argument at the core as they move forward. Elliot, what do you think . I would agree with that wholeheartedly, wolf. I think the challenge prosecutors are going to have in this case as in any other when youre dealing with Public Corruption Is and particularly in washington, there is the conduct that maybe people find distasteful of the influence peddling, the wheeling and wining and dining and wheeling and dealing but when does that rise to be criminal conduct . And prosecutors are going to have to establish a clear link between one act and another. And you know, where i disagree with joey a little bit is this is a question in many respects this is a political question. Do people want this individual to be a senator . Thats very different than the criminal question, can you convict him and can prosecutors be successful on the basis of the conduct. What they laid out was a lot of evidence and a lot of information here. But a jury is going to have to believe a direct link between the gifts and the favors and the official action. And thats not always entirely clear to juries. Its interesting, gloria. Weve known Senator Menendez was under investigation since last year. But he was allowed to continue as the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Is that Something Senate democrats will have to answer for . Well, i think look, i think, you know, the senate is a club. And he was under investigation and he is presumed innocent until found guilty. And he was just under investigation. And he very strongly said they will find nothing. I think the question that i have now is when he says they have misrepresented the normal work of a Congressional Office, whether there are many members of congress who think that this is not the normal work of a Congressional Office and that there needs to be some accounting for the amount of money that was found, for the gold for the gold that was found, and for these texts and emails and the passing on of information that was private to a foreign entity through an intermediary which happened to be his wife. So i think, you know i think there are a lot of questions that need to be answered. And i think senators always give their colleagues the benefit of the doubt. But at some point given whats going on in the state that could change. We shall see. Guys, thank you very, very much. Just ahead, Cassidy Hutchinson reveals she essentially went into hiding feeling threatened after her bombshell january 6th testimony. The former Trump White House aide is speaking out now for the first time. Well share that with you when we come back. Wake up, gottata go cmon, cmon. Gracie, cmon. Lets go guys, cmon mom, cmon mia [ Engine Revving ] my favorite color is. Because, its like a family thing [ engine revng ] made it mom leave running behind, behind. The new turbocharged volkswagen atlas. Does life beautifully. Dont let Student Loan Debt hold you back. Refi at sofi. Com. You could save thousands and get to your goals faster. Sofi. Get your money right. When you smell the amazing scent of gain flings. 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You couldnt go back to your apartment. I could not go back to my apartment. I ended up moving down to atlanta for several months. They didnt even think it was safe for you to stay in d. C. No. No. Lets get some reaction from former Trump White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin along with ashley etienne, former Communications Director for Vice President harris. Alyssa, lets talk to you first. You and Cassidy Hutchinson, you worked together in the Trump White House. Whats your reaction to actually hearing her Testimony Put hearing that her testimony she felt put her life in danger . Its heartbreaking. But i can tell you its true. Cassidy and i are also close friends. And at the time i saw the vitriol that she was getting online. I was made aware of both the congressional committees concern for her safety but also her own attorneys and family. Listen, over 10 Million People watched that hearing. I think she moved many hearts and minds. But you also know that there are folks on the far right who were threatened by what she was doing. And i think she was in danger and it was the right call to leave. Yeah. Certainly. Ashley, what do you think . I mean, my heart goes out to her, of course. But what i appreciate is she showed a level of courage that were not seeing even from republican members. Shes you know, like nikki haley most recently stood up to the president and really spoke truth to power and really defended American Democracy. So i just admire her courage and i really wish that the rest of the Republican Party would take a lesson in the playbook from her and really demonstrate that level of courage in the interest of protecting and defending and strengthening our democracy. Alyssa, i want to read a bit more of what Cassidy Hutchinson told cbs news, and this is a quote. I would not back the former president of the United States. He is dangerous for the country. He is willing and has showed time and time again willingness to proliferate lies to vulnerable American People so he could stay in power. To me that is the most unamerican thing you can do. This is coming from someone who actually like you worked in the Trump White House. Will voters listen . Thats the open question. But can i just say, wolf . Look how easy that was. How many elected members of congress who are republicans feel that same way, they know what they saw on january 6th but they cant muster those words that Cassidy Hutchinson, a 29yearold at the time she was 25 when she was in the white house was able to so clearly say. I did read the book under embargo, and i want to respect that. But i will say this. Once it comes out i think theres going to be a lot of Republican Leaders who frankly should be ashamed of themselves if they read her account and they dont secondguess this idea of once again backing donald trump and potentially putting him back in the white house. Because this book is damning. It certainly is. Ashley, hutchinson says she remains a republican even as she is speaking out against donald trump. Do you think other republicans will take note . Well, i mean, i think thats i mean, thats left to be seen. Im not sure that they will. Theyve not demonstrated that level of courage. Theyve continually put donald trump ahead of American Democracy. You know, and i think i agree with cassidy. There is nothing more unamerican than attempting to undermine the election. Multiple attempts to undermine the election. He also says he wants to dismantle the constitution. Hes also a russian sympathizer. For me i dont know anything thats more antithetical to who we are as a nation. You know, heres the thing i think judge liggett said it best. In order for us to move forward as a unified country its going to require a healthy Republican Party and they have to become whole and healthy again and the way to do that is really confront and be honest with the American People like cassidy has about what donald trump did and how dangerous he is for American Democracy if he gets that job again. Alyssa, how is cassidy doing now . Shes doing great. Shes ready to tell her story. And im glad she took the time and waited until she was ready to tell it on her own terms. And listen, i would say were still in a republican president ial primary. I think were all realistic about how likely it is that donald trump is the nominee. But i hope that folks like nikki haley, chris christie, those who are still in the race, read this book and really ask themselves is it time to take him on more directly and tell the truth to the public about what a threat donald trump is . Well, you know, i was going to add that nikki haley took him on in the last debate and she broke with convention and it proved to work. I mean, shes surging in the molz. She was the one who said he added 8 trillion to the deficit and that he was the most unpopular politician in american history. And it seems to be working. So i think youre right. Im curious to see whether or not republicans will take note of that and well see a different tone and tenor from them in the next debate. All right, guys, thank you very, very much. This note to our viewers. Cnns jake tapper sits down with Cassidy Hutchinson this coming tuesday on the lead. Thats at 4 00 p. M. Eastern. Coming up, ukraine launches one of its biggest and most brazen attacks yet on russianoccupied crimea. And well hear exclusively from a top ukrainian general. Stay with us. Youre in the Situation Room. 12 hours not coughing . 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Ukraine hit the Black Sea Fleets headquarters in russianoccupied crimea with a Missile Attack today. One of its biggest attacks to date. Cnns Senior International correspondent Fred Pleitgen is covering this important story for us from ukraine. Whats the latest, fred . Reporter hi there, wolf. The ukrainians certainly see this as a huge success. The main headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet of the russian navy is a highly fortified area and certainly an area where people thought there would be a lot more air defenses at work there, they would be a lot more effective as well. I talked about that with the top commanding general of ukraines counteroffensive in the south of the country. But we also talked about the counteroffensive in general and some of the skepticism toward supporting ukraine in washington, d. C. Heres what he said. Smoke billowing from russias Black Sea Fleet headquarters in sfastop ol. Moscow blaming ukrainianlaunched cruise missiles. Kyiv only confirming they hit the building. I sat down with the commanding general for ukraines counteroffensive in the sout, Oleksandr Tarnovski and he tells me strikes like these are invaluable for his troops. Translator a destroyed command link. If theres no command there are no coordinated actions hitting infrastructure like factories, bases, warehouses. Containing weapons is also a factor for victory. Reporter in the past weeks alone the ukrainians say theyve hit a russian ship, a submarine, an air base and a surfacetoair Missile System in occupied crimea. Still, ukraines president faces skepticism both from Many Republican lawmakers and the public about the u. S. s continued support for ukraine. Tarnavsky asking for patience. Translator we have one goal liberation of our territories. However hard it is, we will keep on working. And i want to thank even the skeptics. Their criticism also influences our tasks success. Reporter its been a slow grind for the ukrainians on the southern front. Progress so far incremental. But the question is do you think there will be a point when there will be a big push . Translator i believe so. And i think this point will be tokmak. I worry less about the surovikin line. The crossroads, the tree lines and the crossroads between the tree lines. Reporter but the u. S. Has cautioned time might be running out as fall progresses, making the earth here soggy and movement difficult. How much do you think that you can achief before the winter sets in . How far do you think your forces can get realistically . Translator the weather can be a serious obstacle during an advance but considering how we move forward mostly without using vehicles i dont think the weather will heavily influence the counteroffensive. Reporter general tarnavsky says he remains optimistic ukraines counteroffensive will be a success especially if ukraine continues its campaign targeting Russian Forces in the rear like crimea. Oleksandr tarnavsky speaking about the importance of hitting that command and control center, of course the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet, wolf. But he also says that hit is also a big boost in morale for the Ukrainian Forces and he also believes a big hit, a gut punch for the russians and their morale as they see one of their most highly fortified headquarters hit by those ukrainian missiles. Wolf . Fred flight gen reporting live from dnipro in ukraine. Thank you very much, fred. For more on this Important Development jaime joined by representative Gregory Meeks of new york. Hes the ranking democrat on the House Foreign Affairs committee. Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. You heard that top ukrainian general tell cnn, you just heard the report, that these strikes on crimea are key to the Counteroffensive Strategy from ukraine. Is that your assessment as well . Absolutely. And meeting with president zelenskyy yesterday when he was in town, he indicated to us that that is one of their goals, because all of the weapons that russia is storing is there in crimea. If you hit those, we believe that the russians will start to run across the bridge back from crimea to russia. And it is a big Morale Booster also, i believe, for the ukrainian soldiers. And significant, i think, because it shows also the weakness of russia. You know, they have had to run to north korea to try to get some additional weapons, showing that theyre running out there. And they did not have the protection that some would have assumed they would have had to protect what theyve had in crimea. It shows their weaknesses, it shows theyre very vulnerable and it shows the United States as well as the rest of our allies should just stay the course because ukraine is winning and it takes its time but its strategic and i think that theyre doing the right thing at the right time and i th thank President Biden for giving them what they need when they need it. Congressman, i want to turn to the Breaking News today and get your thoughts. Your colleague Senator Menendez of new jersey is facing growing calls right now from your fellow democrats to resign over very serious bribery charges. Democratic Congresswoman Spanberger she just echoed that call here in the Situation Room during the last hour. Do you agree with your colleagues . Should the senator resign . Look, i am very concerned about what took place. But as an attorney, as a former prosecutor myself, i do believe in due process. You know, i look and ive said the same thing and the same standard for former president trump, who has been indicted four times and has over 100 charges against him. There should be due process. But noebody, wolf, nobody is above the law. If anybody has brecken broken t they should pay for it and that should be not a break to anyone. So if donald trump and or Senator Menendez have broken the law, they should pay the price. But i do believe we are a country of laws and so i do believe in due process. But what message does it send for him to stay in the senate . He has now resigned as chairman of the Foreign Relations committee. Well, look, the message is he is being prosecuted theres an indictment on him just in the same as it is for donald trump, whos still running for president of the United States of america. So it is his choice as to whether or not he decides, as he decided it was his choice to step down as chair of the Foreign Relations committee, it is his choice to try to determine whether or not he can continue to serve the people of new jersey. I think youve heard a lot from some of the members of congress from new jersey. Thats their decision. But for me i have to stand for due process. Due process is tremendously important because if you go to many other countries due process is not there and a violation of due process for one is a violation for all. But i dont want anyone to be above the law. No one is above the law. Your democratic colleague Congresswoman Spanberger of virginia, a former officer in the cia, just told me in the last hour that in the simplest terms she could actually see a case potentially for Espionage Charges against the senator. Clearly this is a very serious matter. Is it a mistake for democrats not to push him to resign . Its a very serious matter. No question about it. Due process for our country is a very serious matter. We have, as i said, wolf, we have an individual who has been indicted on four occasions with over 100 charges. He is still he is still running for president of the United States. Due process. And none of the republicans are saying he should not run for president of the United States. Fact of the matter is some say even if he is convicted they would vote for him. I say if someone is convicted, if after due process Senator Menendez was convicted then clearly he would not be able to be the senator from new jersey. But due process. You know, i come from a community where due process did not happen for us for a long period of time and many people fought and died for that right of due process. So theres no way that i with the background that i come from and understanding the history of this country can step away from due process being the rule that has to still be followed. And due process means innocent until proven guilty. Representative Gregory Meeks, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, wolf. Just ahead, congress currently has no plan to avert a Government Shutdown. How that could affect your paycheck, what you eat and possibly your next flight out of town. sniff still fresh. Still fresh mmm, still fresh get 6x longerlasting freshness, plus Odor Protection with downy unstopables. If we want a more vile future for our kids, we need to find more sustainable ways of doing things. Americas plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating Plastic Products that are more recyclable. Durable. And dependable. Our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. For a better tomorrow, were focused on making plastics better today. My Little Family is me, aria, and jade. Just the three of us girls. I never thought twice about feeding her kibble. But about two years ago, i realized she was overweight. 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Analysts and Government Union officials are warning us tonight about the serious ramifications of a Government Shutdown, expressing their concerns about everything from the food we eat and the water we drink to our travel plans. Those soulcrushing Flight Delays that might have hampered your travel this summer and last year, get ready for potentially more of them. Your food and water might be vulnerable to safety lapses. Those are among the potential disruptions to our lives that could occur if the congress cant agree to extend the funding of the government and we face a Government Shutdown by midnight on september 30th. Dont think for one minute that it dont affect your community, that it dont affect your church, that it dont affect your city, your municipality. It affects all of america. Reporter first to feel the pinch, almost all of the countrys 3. 5 million federal workers, going without pay, including active duty military and much of federal law enforcement. Some Essential Workers will have to work anyway without pay like air Traffic Controllers and tsa officers at airports. If theyre working, why could there still be Flight Delays . When you dont have money to put gas in your car to come to work, when you dont have money for public transit, you know, that could cause delays at the airport because these guys are going to call in because they cant get to work. Reporter and a shut down would delay the training for badly needed newly hired air Traffic Controllers. Even a shutdown lasting a few weeks could set us back by months or more because of how complex that training is. Reporter how would the rest of us feel it . National parks likely closed. Food stamps in jeopardy as well as Passport Processing and disaster funding for places like hawaii and florida. Even thousands of preschool kids could be shut out. Headstart is losing funding. That means a lot of preschools may be temporarily shutting down and the families that rely on them will be affected. Reporter our daily sustenance would be affected, analysts say, because fda and epa inspectors wouldnt be working during a Government Shutdown. Youll see fewer food safety inspections. Youll see a pause in inspections of Drinking Water facilities. Reporter Social Security and medicare payments wont be stopped. But Service Person comes and applies for a new claim, that wont happen. A person having issue with their benefits. You know, they have no one to call, no one to talk to. Reporter the broader economy would take a hit, experts say, because things like permitting for Construction Projects and Loan Approvals for farms and Small Businesses could be paused. A Government Shutdown is just yet another drag on the economy because it ends up disrupting lots of Supply Chains and lots of services that people and businesses rely on them to keep other parts of the economy running. Reporter what should the average american do to prepare for a possible shutdown . Analyst Catherine Rampell advises check on what benefits youre receiving from the federal government, whether its food stamps or your childs preschool, find out if those benefits will be disrupted. And she says contact your representative in congress and urge them to work as hard as possible to reach a funding deal. Wolf, those members are going to be under a lot of pressure in the next week. Very good advice from her. Brian todd, thank you very much. New cnn polling from the key Battleground State of New Hampshire may be giving some hope right now to the biden campaign. As a top gop rival to donald trump sharpens attacks against the former president. Cnns chief National Affairs correspondent jeff zeleny is joining us from manchester, New Hampshire right now. Jeff, so where do things stand in the Granite State . Reporter wolf, for all the talk of a potential rematch between President Biden and former president donald trump, a bit of a Reality Check here in our latest New Hampshire poll. Of course New Hampshire always a swing state in the general election a year from now. But take a look at these numbers here. President biden getting a slightly greater than majority over the former president. 52 to 40 . And wolf, this is quite interesting. What this is driven by is anger at the former president. When we asked respondents here, voters in New Hampshire what is driving their decision, anger toward the former president is higher than a lack of enthusiasm for the current president. So certainly just a snapshot in time. Obviously this is considerably early. A, we do not know if there will be a rematch between them dynamics could change. But certainly a benchmark. But wolf, whats under way here of course is a republican primary campaign. And former South Carolina governor and former u. N. Ambassador nikki haley is gaining ground in our poll as we talked about last evening. She was presenting her economic plan here today. And as she did so, she took aim at the form er president , comparing them to democrats. Joe biden is proving reckless spending is the road to socialism. But hes not the only culprit. Joe biden, donald trump, and barack obama added more to our National Debt than the previous 42 president s combined. Reporter so this is a continuation of the argument that, wolf, she has been making about the spending and the fiscal policy of the former president. Of course shes trying to carry some of that momentum into next weeks debate at the Reagan Library in california on wednesday. Of course this is essentially now a race for second place for the possibility to confront the former president head to head, one on one. Hes not competing in that debate. But wolf, all of this certainly is sending a message the next year at least here in New Hampshire certainly will be an unpredictable one. Wolf. All right. Jeff zeleny in manchester, New Hampshire for us. Jeff, thanks very much. Coming up, a new explosive report on u. S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Why the justice is once again facing scrutiny about his ethics. One of the reporters who broke this Story Standing by to join us next. With voya, considering all your financial choices together can help yoyou make smarter decisions. Voya. Well planned. Well invested. Well protected. Having triplets is. Amazing expensive. So, we switched to the bargain detergent, but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still weret as clean as with tide. So were bacwith tide, and the clothes e clean again. 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A propublica report reveals thomas attended donor events of the koch network, which is a Political Organization founded by libertarian Billionaires Charles and david koch. Joining us is one of the propublica reporters who broke this story. Justin, thanks very much for joining us. Walk us through your very significant new reporting and how it fits into the scrutiny over Justice Thomas relationship with conservative donors. Yeah. So weve been reporting all year about Justice Thomas accepting at this Point Millions of Dollars Worth of luxury travel, vacations Around The World from various wealthy political donors. This storys a little bit different because its not just a vacation sort of hangout on the beach. These are undisclosed trips to a political event, as you mentioned, the koch political network. Its a very powerful and large Political Organization, spends a lot of money on campaigns and also on lawsuits trying to change the law. They have this annual donor event out in palm springs, california. What we found is that Justice Thomas has been to that at least twice. He was described to us by folks that we spoke to who worked at the koch network as a Fundraising Draw for highdollar donors. In the article you say that Justice Thomas was, quote, let me read to you directly, was, quote in, the extraordinary position of having served as a Fundraising Draw for a network that has brought cases before the Supreme Court. How remarkable is that, what are the implications for the Supreme Court . Yeah. So, i think theres sort of two reasons why this is notable. One is that judges in general are supposed to be independent and impartial and part of that is theyre not supposed to be involved in either political events or fundraising events. And this Koch Network Donor Summit in california is arguably both a political event and a fundraising event. So, we spoke to a judge who is george w. Bush appointee who said that it took his breath away that a judge would do this and as a lowercourt judge, he would have been disciplined for doing Something Like this. But more specifically, as you mentioned, the koch network has actually brought cases before the Supreme Court. Theres one coming up in the Supreme Court turn thats about to begin. Its on a legal issue known as chevron that most people havent heard of. But has, you know, potentially huge ramifications for the governments ability to regulate things like the environment, labor, consumer protections. Thats a case that koch Network Lawyers have brought to the Supreme Court, and, you know, now because of our reporting we now know that Justice Thomas has this, you know, very, very unusual relationship with this group thats litigating at the Supreme Court. In both the Supreme Court and congress, justin, for that matter, there is no consensus as of yet over establishing a Code Of Ethics for the justices. So, do you expect anything to really change here . Um, potentially. So, the Senate Judiciary committee has been investigating some of these ethics issues at the court, and also both justices appointed by both democrats and republicans, Justices Kagan and Kavanaugh Have said in recent days and weeks that the court internally is looking at adopting some sort of ethics rules which right now it actually doesnt have any. So, were watching that closely, and well see if they come to some kind of consensus and whether it has any teeth. Excellent reporting from propublica reporter justin elliott, thank you very much for joining us. And still ahead, cnns Donie Osullivan takes an indepth look at believers of the online Conspiracy Theory that the slain u. S. President john f. Kennedy is still alive. Well have a previview of his report, when w we come back. Im not just accomplished. I am accomplishing. So im doing all i can to help lower my risk of breaking a bone. 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We need to scale with customer demand. In real time. jen so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. marquis with a custom private 5g network. ella with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. marquis so our customers get what they want, when they want it. jen its not just a network. Its enterprise intelligence. vo learn more. Its your vision, its your verizon. President john f. Kennedy was assassinated in 1963. His son died in a plane crash in 1999. Those are facts. But there is a growing group of people who believe President Kennedy and his son are both still alive and in hiding. Cnns de Donie Osullivan met the socalled believers and their families who say the Conspiracy Theory has taken over their lives. Watch this. One time we went to play tennis and he got a phone call. Jason believed it was junior calling him, jfk jr. Calling him. And this was maybe a week before he went to dallas. So youre playing tennis with your brother. Yes. And he gets a call. Correct. And he thinks its jfk jr. He does. At that point youre, like, there is something seriously wrong here . Yes. But what do you do . Donie, you did a deep dive on this group for cnns The Whole Story with anderson cooper. Why are people believing this sort of thing . Reporter this is kind of an offshoot of the qanon Conspiracy Theory. It all started about two years ago when everybody was kind of shocked that hundreds of people showed up at the Grassy Knoll In Dallas where President Kennedy was assassinated. Now, they didnt materialize, most of those people went home. But this core group left their families for quite some time to wait for the kennedys to return. Some people describing this as a cult. What we wanted to do with this documentary was kind of get beyond these irrational beliefs because that is what they are, and really look at the impact that this is having on american families, but also why people are going down these rabbit holes in the first place. What we found is that the people who believe in this, many of them, they arent always, quote, unquote, always been crazy people or quacks. Many of them productive members of society, have loving families, have jobs. But something clicked. Often times its a trauma or theyre going through a tough time and they find these communities online and they get sucked into them. And, as you can see from that interview there with erica from pittsburgh, her brother got sucked into this rabbit hole. And you can see the devastation it causes. Donie osullivan, thank you. And you can see the new episode of cnns The Whole Story wit