Transcripts For CNNW Starting Point 20120413

technology, the rocket technology to put a satellite into space, which therefore implies that they have the technology that would be able to deliver a police tick missile basically to anywhere on the earth. they have not proved that today, obviously. they haven't proved it in any of their three previous attempts to prove it. basically, four missile tests, four rocket launches for zero. that's the first thing. they haven't proven they've got the rocket. the security council is going to have to make some kind of response. we'll have to see how strong that response is. in the past previous two tests they made, when the u.n. security council said strongly to the north koreans, who insisted they had every right to do these kinds of tests, then went ahead and did a nuclear test. whether they did it this time, there are speculations. there are thoughts the underground facility is being prepared for such a test. if that happens, that will be very serious. >> tim schwarz joining us with what happens next. what happened the night george zimmerman killed trayvon martin. the affidavit of probable cause appeared just hours after zimmerman appeared at the seminole county jail. the affidavit is the prosecution's version of what happened that night. but according to the affidavit, martin was, quote, on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by george zimmerman. there's also the 911 call. the prosecutors say a "police dispatcher informed zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer." it goes on to say, "zimmerman confronted martin, and a struggle ensued. zimmerman shot martin in the chest." zara is an attorney who defended george zimmerman before back in 2005 and 2006. it's nice to see you again. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> i just read the affidavit, and they say this is bare bones. we should underscore it's the prosecution's version, but what sticks out to you in this affidavit? >> well, soledad, what i think is interesting is the word profiling. i don't think there's evidence of profiling. in the 911 tape george zimmerman is saying things about trayvon he thinks he sees him doing, nothing about his race. he sees him acting suspicious, carrying something in his hand, as well as looks like he's on drugs. those are the words that george uses. there's nothing about his race. so i don't know where the prosecutor is getting the profiling part. that's going to be interesting to see. >> in the 911 call that we've all listened to many times on this panel, he does point out several times in the description of him that he's black, and he also sort of says he looks and describes as what he would define as suspicious activities. in an affidavit like this to sort of prove what charges you're going to go for, second degree murder, do you have to lay out the specifics, or do you have to really sort of say we're going to try to prove the case around profiling. i agree. that word stuck out to me too. >> you do have to talk about the elements of the crime. you have to show a depraved mind. and the prosecutor is going to try to show, soledad, that just to say somebody has a hoody or something in their hand is not a depraved mind. on the other hand, george is going to say, hey, he was acting suspicious, acting like he was on drugs. we haven't heard why george thought this person acted like they were doing something criminal, acting like he was on drugs. that's going to be interesting once we hear george's version. so, yes, we've got to see that. good morning. >> is it not fair to say, however, that, even if he wasn't using a racial slur, and many of us do hear that word and not the word punks, the very fact that he was calling this man the words he was using and the profanities and calling him a punk, if that's what he chose, shows that he was profiling, that mr. zimmerman had passed judgment on this man without breaking any laws. >> but he passed judgment seeing someone he thought was engaged in a criminal act. >> walking? >> he says he looks like he's on drugs. we haven't heard why does george think that? all of us have observed people under the influence of alcohol and drugs. we haven't heard what was he doing that made george think that. that's what made george suspicious, and the prosecutor is going to say, well, that's not enough. everything you saw was innocent details. >> forgive me for interrupting, but i'm just curious. is this something that's the centerpiece of the case as we move forward? and a prosecutor would have to prove that. or are you saying the fact that we don't see it in the affidavit -- which i think everybody kind of agrees it's very bare boned -- is an indication of a big problem for the prosecution? >> the prosecutor, soledad, is going to absolutely have to show that. how else are they going to prove the element depraved mind? they're going to have to show that george's belief was completely unreasonable, and that shows in and of itself a depraved mind. and that's going to be a tough thing, a very tough thing. >> are you surprised it's not in this affidavit, or is this affidavit -- to me, the affidavit seems so bare bones it gave me the sense -- and you guys can jump in and tell me if i'm wrong. that he's essentially trying to leave it vague. there's nothing in the affidavit. let me tell you what alan de dershowitz, the noted defense attorney said. >> an affidavit is supposed to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. this affidavit is perfectly consistent with self-defense. it doesn't even state the elements of a crime. of course, you don't have to say very much in an affidavit showing probable cause, but this doesn't even satisfy that minimal standard. >> does it satisfy the minimal standard in your mind? >> all they need to do is show probable cause. soledad, probable cause is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. that's the prosecutor's burden at trial. she just needs probable cause for an arrest. so it might be the bare bones minimum. it's not going to get the case dismissed at this point. i'm sure the prosecutor is waiting to bring forth all of their evidence at a much later time. >> at some point there will be a stand your ground hearing. some have suggested that, in fact, that actually could be another moment in which all this ends. you could have the case tossed after the stand your ground hearing, do you think? >> that's absolutely correct. the defendant will file a motion, and they just have to show it by preponderance of the evidence that they are entitled to that defense, and then the state can try to rebut that at that hearing and say, judge, do not grant this motion. let this go to a hearing, a trial. there's just not enough there for the defendant has not met their burden. >> forgive me. i feel like you're walking me through law 101. forgive me. the stand your ground defense, you don't actually have to prove that you were fearing for your life. you just have to -- you don't necessarily have to be at risk for your life. you have to prove that you were afraid for your life. is that correct? >> right. he may have been wrong, but he has to believe that he was facing serious bodily injury or death. his version is he wasn't wrong. his version is trayvon struck at him and tried to hurt him. so he's going to stick with his version. in the beginning, we weren't sure what his version was. whether or not trayvon attempted to hit him. he now has said, no, trayvon was attempting to punch him, struggle. there is evidence to decide that he is entitled to a defense. >> his burden of proof under this stand your ground law is he just has to be fearing for his life. he doesn't have to prove that realistically he should be fearing for his life, he just has to prove that he was fearing for his life. >> exactly. the prosecutor is going to say that under the circumstances he's the one who instigated the whole thing. the prosecutor is going to say he's the one who confronted trayvon, came up to trayvon, not the other way around. remember, soledad, george's version is trayvon approached him and came up to him and said, do you have a problem with me? so we have two versions completely factually different. >> quick final question for you. no bond at this point. are you surprised that he's going to continue to stay in jail, or would you expect that for a little while? >> i do expect that for a little while. that's very common. it's very unusual to get a bond for a crime punish by life at an initial appearance. now it's up to the defense attorney to file a bond motion and get that heard before the judge as soon as possible. so it's very possible we will have a bond hearing as early as next week. >> right. zahra walking us through this case. we appreciate it. nice to see you, as always. >> thank you, soledad. >> let's get right to kate bolduan. she's filling in for christine with the headlines. >> good morning to you, soledad. good morning, everyone. an all night armed standoff comes to an end this morning with two suspects found dead. the man and woman faced off with police at a home in greenland, new hampshire. police had come to the home earlier in the night as part of a drug investigation. a shootout broke out, and the police chief was actually killed. four other officers were injured. the suspects were killed in either a murder/suicide or a double suicide. gunned down police chief michael maloney was only days away from retirement. there are only ten officers in that town. and democratic strategist hilary rosen apologizes for saying ann romney never worked a day in her life. the remark about a stay at home mom of five and grandmother of 16 angered republicans and democrats. president obama weighed in saying that doesn't reflect what he believes at all, using his wife and mother as examples. >> there's no tougher job than being a mom. and when i think about what michelle's had to do, when i think about my own mom, a single mother raising me and my sister, that's work. >> and get this one, the hero mayor deserves a key to his own city this morning. newark, new jersey mayor cory booker saves the life of a woman trapped in her burning home. booker says he came home to find his neighbor's house in flames. he raced in, snatched her out of bed, and carried her outside. tweeted about it later saying, "thanks to all who are concerned. just suffering some smoke inhalation. we got the woman out of the house. we are both off to the hospital. i will be okay." quite a story, though. and using your money to reward a quote, unquote, jackass and score free meals. the scandal at the general services administration seems to only be growing. it all started with the news that the agency in charge of saving taxpayer dollars was partying it up in vegas at a lavish conference that cost more than $800,000. well, now, new transcripts from an inspector general's report shows or suggests, at least, that officials created a jackass award as an excuse to hold ceremonies that included taxpayer funded dinners. cnn received documents from the house oversight committee that also show there was a five-day conference for interns at a resort in palm springs reportedly included sweets and a catered awards dinner yet again. next hour, we talk to roll call reporter jonathan strong who's been investigating this scandal and reveals even more on this spending spree. and we're not at hogwarts anymore apparently. jk rowling's new book has been revealed. it will be called the casual vacancy. it's reportedly described as a black comedy for adults. it's rowling's first book since the harry potter series. it will be released september 27th. we'll have to see if there's as much excitement about this series or this book at least. >> that's a lot of pressure, isn't it? >> sure is. >> you go from being the zillion dollar best seller to eh. hopefully, she'll do well. i'd read it. >> i'm definitely going to read t i'm sure she's got a lot of pressure on her. ahead this morning on "starting point," the nfl bounty snitch, as some are calling him, revealed. there's a man who's been outed as the whistleblower on that bounty story, taking lots of heat this morning. we're going to talk to the writer who has outed the guy. also, the dollar bill, don't have to pay for coke anymore. just open your arms and give a hug. i actually love this idea. hug your vending machine and get a coke. and if you're about to head to work and don't want to miss the rest of the show, follow our live blog at cnn.com/startingpoint. here's john's play list. "love will tear us apart." i've discovered gold. 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and that's pretty cool. ♪ new developments in that pay for play bounty scandal. new orleans coach joe vit is now the interim head coach. but this coach is the one that everyone is talking about. he's a former quality control coach. his name is mike ciriullo. he's being called the snitch who outed the bounty scandal. as a former whistleblower, he's outed him. thanks for talking with me. >> thanks for having me. feel how this one goes. >> are you getting a lot of flack? do you feel like people are piling on? >> actually, there's not. most of it has been okay. the reception down in new orleans really, i know a lot of people think that they'd appreciate this. they really don't. i'll go to my grave believing the bounty scandal is not quite what it is and these are really nice guys. i can tell you, after i got off the radio the other day, there was no warm and fuzzy with the people at the saints practice facility. they don't want this. >> when you say the bounty scandal is not what it is, what do you mean? >> i don't want to go into great detail because i think it's something that should be put to rest pretty soon, but i know these guys. i know the guys that are being put out of football for a while by the league. if they don't want mike cerullo's name run around and damaged, they don't want anybody to get hurt. it shows that nobody got hurt and no bags of money were exchanged. >> watch me through this. as much as you know i love new orleans, and i root for the saints all the time. football is not necessarily my greatest strength. so you name mike cerullo as the whistleblower. what was your proof for that? you did it on a show. >> the name had been bounced around a lot. there was a perfect storm of information for me. until i moved to los angeles a few months ago, i lived in connecticut, which is where he was working a couple of years after leaving the saints. i also work in many fields, as you know. i'm becoming the president of national lampoon this week and a lot of other business ventures that i'm in. and someone from completely outside of football, they called me a while back and asked me about him. i didn't even know who he was. i had to look him up and see who he was. for a reason i don't feel like going into anymore, i was given his name and some information about him and that he was the informant. i'd like to apologize for my radio interview, for calling mike cerullo a snitch. i should know better. he was an informant or a whistleblower. >> your apology is you named him wrong versus naming him at all. >> no, he's the right guy. he is the guy. i believe he's the guy, and i'm here taking my heat. he's going to take some heat as well. but i should have been a little more professional than to call him a snitch. you know, football and sports are supposed to be community building and positives. and unfortunately, this is negative, and what i feel really bad about is that i got carried away. my personal animosity towards this guy made it my opinions and my voice on it a little stronger than it should have been. >> why did you have personal animosity on it? >> i'm a saints fan, and these are my friends, and i got a little riled up. i wanted to find out who he was. i researched. i made sure that it was him. it is him. nobody's denying that it's him. and i was a little more aggravated in that interview that i did the other day than i've ever been. all the interviews i did about my book "patron saints" have been positive. i like being positive. i like making people laugh. frankly, being this negative and seeing the negative things i said inflamed in the community and online has been rather sickening to me. you guys are the hard news -- yeah. >> i'm sorry for interrupting. i wanted to read the comment from university of connecticut, which is cerullo left the saints in 2010, and he works at uconn. it looks like he's up for a job, i think it's at princeton. they said this. they had no comment really. "neither mike cerullo nor the university will comment on the subject. the matter is based on speculation by the media which does not warrant comment." do you worry that you've hurt his opportunities? again, your apology is because you called him a snitch versus saying he's not the guy. >> he is one of the guys, if not the only guy, yes. >> why are you mad? i mean, you know it, when i heard the story -- again, i am not the greatest football fan even though i love the idea that everybody in new orleans dresses up and wears saints gear on game day. i think it's fantastic. but to me, the whole idea of the bounty system just seems so horrific and so antithetical to what you talk about, community building and the game itself. why are you not enraged that that bounty system was happening? >> because i don't really believe it did, as being described. >> really? >> i think -- there's no court of law with the national football league, ands that the way that functions. roger goodell made his decisions. the saints presented their case. and because it's the nfl, you don't get to see what it was. but i'm telling you, i know the guys that are accused, gregg williams. sean payton, i work with sean's foundation. i've been down there. the good they've done in that community can't be quantified. and that this happened is unfortunate. whatever is being said is being taken this way. but, look, they're taking phenomenal penalties. for an nfl coach to sit out for a year, for mickey loomis, the general manager, one of the greatest men i've known in the field at any time, to be out for eight games, to be humiliated like that, they're suffering. everyone should move on. it won't happen again. the good, long-term benefits is now there will be clear rules on what bounty systems can be done. if it's going on anywhere else in the nfl, it won't. >> you actually calm out and revealed mr. cerullo's name because former tight end shocky was rumored to be the whistleblower. now that you've revealed this, are rumors that shockey is the whistleblower is gone? >> i'm not a friend of jeremy shockey's -- >> you've said several times this morning that we're not getting the general picture. you know gregg williams. i am a football fan. i've heard the tapes. if we're missing something in the story, can you help me understand, when i hear gregg williams say 15 times in that audio, hit frank gore's head, let's test kyle williams' concussion out. >> let's play it first. >> route 42. knock -- he has no idea what he's in for. when he's on the sidelines, we gotta turn that [ bleep ] over, turn their coaches over, turn the spectators over, go get that [ bleep ] on the sidelines." >> so as we hear that tape, you're telling us we're not fully understanding. you know these guys. what about that tape is not communicating the full story? >> the tape is a perfect example. everybody's heard that tape, right? you just played it. what's missing there is, if you hit frank gore in the head, you get $5,000. if you hit so and so. where's the money? where's the bounty in that speech? is where's him saying, here's cash motivation. put the guy out. where is it? >> you're right. except the story is we're told -- and i don't have the video of this -- that supposedly gregg williams is rubbing his fingers together as to sign money. >> why would he not do it there? there's also other portions of that tape that goes on. it says at the end usually, don't do anything to hurt the team. i wasn't in the room. you weren't in the room. if he was rubbing his fingers together, then that happened. he's out for maybe the rest of his life. again, he's taking his punishment. gregg williams won't do it in the nfl again. i don't think any other coach will either. >> you've written a great book, "patron saints," how the saints gave the people of new orleans a reason to believe. still ahead on "starting point," our get real. it doesn't take dollars or coins. it's a vending machine that accepts hugs. and james cameron back from the deepest part of the ocean talks about titanic in 3d. the changes he's had to make to the movie and why people remain fascinated about that ship after all these years. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here. ♪ that's how i describe myself, a good hearted woman. that's waylon jennings. you can see our entire playlist on line at cnn.com/startingpoint. our get real this morning, i think this is a great idea. put your dollar bill away when you go to this vending machine. it's a coke machine that does not take coins. it does not take dollar bills. it is newly launched, and it's a hug me machine. you see that machine? you have to go and hug the machine. it's in singapore. look, she's hugging the machine, and here is her coke. >> the metaphor for our age is astonishing. if you get the high five, do you get the high fructose corn syrup out? >> just give it a squeeze. there's no telling when the hug me coke machine comes to the united states. >> is it a strength test? you have to squeeze it to a certain pressure. >> it's not a strength test, will cain. i actually thought it was going to be more furry. i thought, if you're going to hug it, it should be shaped better and furry. >> no money. coke is giving it away for affection? it's tragic. >> you just lean in and hug. >> wow, whoa. >> it's weird. apparently, a big hit. >> she looks like she's trying very hard. she looks like she's breaking into it, not hugging, but trying to crack the front off the machine. group hug. still ahead on "starting point," a santorum supporter showed up with a sign that said convince me at a mitt romney event. we'll talk about what it will take to convince him. and a study that proves us all right. scientists say that alcohol makes you smarter. here's my playlist. "sold out." man: 1939 -- my parents ran across an ad for a hot dog cart. my mother said, "well, maybe we ought to buy this hot dog cart and set it up someplace." so my parents went to bank of america. they met with the branch manager and they said, "look, we've got this little hot dog cart, and it's on a really good corner. let's see if we can buy the property." and the branch manager said, "all right, i will take a chance with the two of you." and we've been loyal to bank of america for the last 71 years. everything. but why energy? we've got over 100 years worth. is it safe to get it? but what, so we should go broke with imports? look, i'm just saying. well, energy creates jobs. [announcer:] at conocophillips, we're helping power america's economy with cleaner, affordable natural gas. more jobs, less emissions. a good answer for everyone. we gotta be careful. it's cleaner. it's affordable. look, if it's safe, i'm there. [announcer:] conocophillips. i worked at the colorado springs mail processing plant for 22 years. we processed on a given day about a million pieces of mail. checks, newspapers, bills. a lot of people get their medications only through the mail. small businesses depend on this processing plant. they want to shut down 3000 post offices, cut 100,000 jobs. they're gonna be putting people out of work everywhere. the american people depend on the postal service. welcome back, everybody. let's start with headlines. kate bolduan is in once again this morning. this morning the u.n. security council will decide how to respond to north korea's rocket launch that turned into a dud. the rocket fired last night but broke up moments after launch and landed in the ocean. despite the embarrassment for north korea, president obama still calls it provocative. and new developments out of syria this morning. afp news agency reporting syrian forces shot and killed a demonstrator as tens of thousands of people marched across the country. opposition forces calling for peaceful protests today to put a ceasefire to the test. there are reports of scattered skirmishes near the border with turkey. and president obama is making a historic trip to colombia. his weekend visit will be the longest time a u.s. president has spent in the country. the president is attending the summit of the americas, a gathering of leaders of north, central, and south america. he's expected to address the economy, trade, energy, and regional security. here's one for you on a friday. can alcohol make you smarter or at least get your creative juices flowing? researchers at the university of illinois said they'll drink to that. their study found men who drank two pints of beer or two glasses of wine before solving brain teasers, were quicking at delivering answers than the guys who answered the question sober. obviously, i did a lot of research on this, soledad, on a friday. >> you were knocking back vodka cranberries. what did you find? >> it's friday the 13th, what am i supposed to do? here's one of the brain teasers real quick. everyone can join. the fourth word in common here. we have cottage, swiss, and cake. what's the fourth word they have in common? >> cheese. >> there you go. >> what do we win? >> you win a drink. >> drinks all around. it's 7:30 in the morning. already kate's talking about cocktails. that's my kind of girl. thanks, kate. appreciate it. mitt romney is picking up two -- the back end of two leading social conservative groups, the national right to life group, and the susan b. anthony list. their support could be the first indication that social conservatives are beginning to rally around the former governor. after rick santorum, the first choice for many in that category, dropped out. not everybody is convinced, though. chris o'brien was a santorum supporter, still is a santorum supporter, showed up at a romney campaign rally on wednesday, carrying this sign, which he's brought in to share with us. it says "convince me." chris o'brien is with us. no relation. maybe we are related, actually. >> we were just discussing that before the break. all o'briens are related somehow. >> all o'briens are related somehow. my cousin chris joins us. in all seriousness, you were standing outside a mitt romney rally with a sign that says "convince me." what exactly did you need to hear to be convinced that your support for rick santorum now that he's dropped out goes to mitt romney. >> this was really a reaction to the negative advertising going on. a lot of americans watch the debate, but they really get influenced by the ads, and that formulates your impression of the candidate. >> what's your impression of the candidate? >> rather than giving the negative ads that he's bashed every single candidate that's come along so far. >> mitt romney? >> mitt romney has. even herman cain at the worst, and then he'd come on cnn or another show and treat it with good respect. but we'd like to hear substance on foreign policy and on domestic issues and foreign issues dealing with the housing crisis, economic crisis of the day. promote a positive image for our president. for one year from now, it's certainly important for the republican party to defeat barack obama, but after we defeat barack obama, we need to have a very good president for four years. >> let me ask you a couple of years. how would you describe yourself? social conservative? evangelical conservative? >> i wouldn't consider myself that. a social conservative. rick started there, i think. >> he isn't even evangelical. he's catholic. >> i'm catholic as well. >> they too. a lot of catholics. we are related actually. >> we're coming together already. social conservatives, when they get branded that way, you don't go very far. when you have a mike huckabee or a rick santorum that broadens out their base into other issues dealing with education and how churches and nonprofits and charities and schools affect your community all intertwined, then you develop a broad basis of support. as the other communities dropped out, we started to follow rick santorum. >> i like how you like the issue on a substantive basis. but it's mitt romney versus barack obama. how will you vote? >> obviously, i'll go with the republican party. mitt romney hasn't gotten the number of votes. newt gingrich is still trucking hard. >> are you going with newt gingrich in the meantime? >> i'm willing to look at anybody right now. >> humbly asks for the votes of santorum supporters. >> when i look at mr. santorum and mr. romney -- >> i was going to say progressive folks, by the way. >> progressive folks and many people in the same community. when you look at these guys, they both want to cut taxes on millionaires more, they both want to deregulate wall street more and bring back preexisting health conditions for sick people on day one of his presidency. but i say to you what's the difference? what is the great substantive difference between these two gentlemen? >> i think that's what it is, to try to reach out to folks on a more substantive level. the differences between most of the candidates during this election -- >> what does romney need to convince you of, chris? >> i think that he -- i think overall there are small margins between each of the candidates, and they hyperinflate each one in order to tear down their character. i think that, romney early early on spoke about a big broad 59-point economic plan. when it comes down to something a person can grasp, i like that particular idea that will affect my child, or tripling the tax credit was one thing that santorum had. he doesn't have to adopt that. but one of the other ideas perhaps. >> is this more like a protest for his negativity or is this waiting for a point in time where he starts talking more seriously about these issues? are you going to wait for a certain amount of time? >> every candidate across the country walks -- deals with negative advertising, and it brings down the voter voice -- the voter count because i think a lot of politicians believe that we're not very well-informed, and we're not very well-informed. they use their commercials as a way to inform their message and their platform. newt gingrich wanted to do that at one point but got beaten back. >> any chance at all that you would just say, or people that you know would just say, listen, i'm not going to vote. i'm not convinced yet. so my response will be forget it. i'm not fully in. or do you think no matter what, people that are social conservatives will go with the guy representing social conservatives. >> i think we all will come around and coalesce. i think romney knows he has to reach out to that. i talked to my counterpart on his campaign late last night. she said there is a plan working, and i'm sure they're going to reach out. they're still five months out on the convention. there's still time. >> you're preconvinced? >> i'm hopeful. i'm very hopeful. but the negativity throughout the campaign is -- >> that will go away, right? >> we hope. we hope. >> hope springs eternal. it's pretty painful with the rick santorum campaign right now. but it's still a week and a half. we know how the news cycle changes. >> my cousin o'brien joining us. thanks for your time. still ahead, president obama is defending mitt romney's wife and other mothers after a democratic strategist cezanne romney never worked a day in her life. we'll have that conversation and chat about it. also, my talk with james cameron. he talks about how he's gone through each frame of his film "titanic" to do the new 3d version. bring you that story. it all started with a controversial comment from ann romney about democratic strategist hilary rosen. listen. his wife has actually never worked a day in her life. she's never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing in terms of how do we feed our kids? how do we send them to school? and why do we worry about their future? >> let the backlash begin after she said that. everyone spent a day talking about it. including president obama weighing in. >> when i think about what michelle's had to do, when i think about my own mom, a single mother raising me and my sister, that's work. >> did hilary rosen go a little too far last night? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> really she held every job imaginable raising five boys. we were a lot of work for her, i assure you. >> we can all agree, democrats and republicans, that raising children is an incredibly difficult job. that is true for all mothers as well as fathers. >> that sound you hear is the sound of the dnc back pedaling away from hilary rosen, really distancing themselves. >> i think the rnc has made mugs now saying stay at home moms are working too. >> which kind of misses the whole point of what she was saying. she was connecting an economic message to working moms, which as she said in her apology, which we should play. let's play her apology from "situation room" last night. >> i apologize. working moms, stay at home moms, they're both extremely hard jobs. i know. i've shared them both. and i'm sorry if that offended you. >> i flipped on hilary rosen. yesterday -- >> you were mad. >> i was very mad at her because what she said was completely stuped id. but you know what, like most americans, i only heard the one sound bite. once i heard the entire context of what she said, i completely defend the substance of her statements because she was not in any way attacking ann romney for being a stay at home mom or, in this case, a stay at five homes mom. she was going after governor mitt romney because he said he went to his wife as an economic consultant on women's economic issues. in this case, hilary rosen is spot on saying that's not realistic for the nonmillionaire stay at home moms who are struggling financially. it was not an attack on ann romney. it was a poor choice of words. but the discussion is valid. >> basically, it narrows down the number of people qualified to speak on economic issues to a small number of people you preor dain. >> if you want to valulcanize t united states on age, class, and race. you can't divide us that much. >> i came out yesterday and said the democratic war on women is incredibly stupid, and it is. it's going to backfire on them big time. i'm not a democrat. but if they change the language to the war on women's reproductive independence, they'd be more honest. please, abby. >> i actually believe this isn't going to be that big of an issue come election day. i think we have real wars going on. we have $15 trillion in debt. we have a broken tax code. i think we need to get back to these issues. i think i agree with you, will. this is when it really divides our country at a time we don't need to be divided. >> absolutely. >> that being said, soledad, we were talking about women at home, whether they choose to be or not. i think it was a wrong choice of words, but there are a lot of women -- >> which she apologized for. everyone should move on at this point, and i would agree with you. get to the real substance, which is what she and she said last night. it's done. >> and the attacks on hilary rosen today for being a lesbian mom who adopted her kids are deliberately discussi lly disgu. >> thank you for bringing up a complicated issue that requires ten more minutes of conversation before i go to commercial break. we're going to talk about that too. still ahead, wait until you hear jack and rose now. we're going to talk about james cameron and how he took "titanic" to another level. it's in stunning 3d. according to the signs, ford is having some sort of big tire event. i just want to confirm a w things with fiona. how would you describe the event? it's big. no,i mean in terms of savings how would you sum it up? big in your own words, with respect to selection, what would you say? big okay, let's talk rebates mike, they're big they're big get $100 rebate, plus the low price tire guarantee during the big tire event. so, in other words, we can agree that ford's tire event is a good size? big big to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin totally dedicated to your eyes, from the eye-care experts at bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. [ male announcer ] ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin to help protect your eye health. now, that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. >> all right. open your eyes. >> it is the most famous ship in film and now after 15 years from its original release, "titanic" is back for a second voyage in 3-d this time. james cameron won the academy award for best director for the film and pioneered the new 3-d version and made some changes. why did you want to have the "titanic" in 3-d? >> you know, as a director you never get that sort of second bite at the apple to bring a movie back to theaters. it sort of plays in theaters initially and then it goes to video and it exists in that video purgatory for the rest of its life. the 3-d was a way to bring it back to a new generation that had never seen it in a movie theater. i love that experience. i love sitting in a big dark room with a giant silver screen and a bunch of people i don't know reacting to something. laughing or crying or whatever it is. >> it would seem like these big wide ranging landscape type shots would be perfect for 3-d. >> and they are of course. and then i think that's what everybody would expect. what's counterintuitive is the smaller more intimate moments benefit more from the 3-d. this is the reaction that we're getting from people coming out of the movie. i felt like i was right there. i felt like i was right there on the ship in the corridors as it's flooding or with jack and rose. i felt more emotionally connected to them which is interesting. i think what's happening is the brain is being tricked at an unconscious level to think that something is really happening. >> you're pulled in and also literally pulled into the story more as well. it was shot in 2-d originally. how do you move from 2-d to 3-d? >> if you make a movie today the best thing to do is shoot it in 3-d and not try to shoot it in 2-d and convert it. we have zero depth information from that moment of photography so we have to create it all. it's all done by eye. you think there's a magic wand computer program you put 2-d on one side and it's not possible. we actually had 300 computer artists sitting at screens for over a year outlining every object, every hair on kate's head, you know, to create separate plains of depth. >> i want to play a little clip to people can see it for themselves. >> i don't see what all of the fuss is about. it doesn't look any bigger. >> it's over 100 feet longer. far more luxurious. >> does it make the story telling better? you and i have talked about 3-d before. a lot of you said to me was at the end of the day 3-d can't make a movie that's not a great story a better story. >> the substance has to be there. to me 3-d just adds to all of the other tricks of the trade. music, color, production, design, it's really just another color to paint with. it can be abused and we've seen abuses of it. i think when it is used subtly in a way to just sort of draw you unconsciously into the movie, it actually is quite powerful. >> you have said that you're not a perfectionist, you're a rightist. you'll do it until you get it right. was it a tough project? was it like cracking the whip with 300 artists working on this. >> the conversion is all subjective. how much depth is too much depth. >> to get it to match. >> match from shot to shot and all of the different artists. sometimes it was like herding cats. everyone had their own ideas of what this should be. it turn out to be a great collaboration with the company. it was called stereo d that did the conversion. we wound up having a good partnership on it. >> why do you think people are obsessed with the "titanic"? we're at a time when people are now on ships heading out to the site. clearly you've been involved in going way down to take a closer look. people dress up in period costume. over 100 years people have been talking about the "titanic." it hasn't really dissipated. >> i don't think it will. it's such a great moral parable. the arrogance of these guys that sailed the biggest ship in history into a known ice field feeling they were too big to fail, too big to sink and the disaster that ensued and it's the human stories and fathers that said good-bye to their children and said i'll see you later in new york. you get on this boat. i'll get on the next one. there was no next boat. and there have been so many horrific disasters. many, many more deaths on "titanic" but somehow that story still touches us after all these years. >> talk to me about your dive, which honestly sounds both fabulous and insane because you were by yourself. >> to the challenger deep. yeah. just recently a couple weeks ago. that was the end of a seven-year project. the culmination of designing and building the vehicle to really kind of demonstrate to the science community that the technology now exists to go and open up this frontier. if you think there's only one last unexplored frontier on planet earth and it's those extreme depths in the ocean way down there. i went right down to 36,000 feet. if we can go here, we can go to those places that haven't been explored. >> nice to have you. looking forward to seeing the film. my kids will love it. they were too little the first time around. >> right. they are the right age now. >> they are. nice to see you. appreciate it. >> nice to see you too. >> thank you. the next revolution in music is happening here. pandora rocks the big board. [ technician ] are you busy? management just sent over these new technical manuals. they need you to translate them into portuguese. by tomorrow. [ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business. good morning. north korea makes a splash but not in the way they wanted to. they deposit a long-range rocket into the ocean. the move is provocative and won't be tolerated says president obama. also after weeks in hiding, george zimmerman makes his first court appearance. prosecutors say he profiled trayvon martin before he shot and killed him. we'll look at where the case goes from here. we talked about the clowns and the parties. now we'll tell you about the government agency, gsa, how they had a starting role on our show lately using taxpayer money to reward the jackass award of the day. we'll update you on what's happening there. super mayor to the rescue. cory booker runs into a burning building to try to save his neighbor. he had to go to the hospital. we'll tell you what happened and check in with him and talk to him live straight ahead. friday, april 13th. "starting point" begins right now. ♪ >> i love starting with mary blige. we've been having it out on this panel this morning. >> i love it. it's a great conversation. >> i'm happy. >> i am in between you two. >> exactly. abby huntsman doing double duty today. >> we're trying to impress abby. >> our "starting point" this morning takes a closer look at the affidavit that put george zimmerman behind bars. according to that affidavit, trayvon martin was "on his way back to the town house where he was living when he was profiled by george zimmerman." there's also the 911 call where prosecutors say "a police dispatcher informed zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer." it goes on to say "zimmerman confronted martin, a struggle ensued and zimmerman shot martin in the chest." joining us this morning, criminal defense attorney jose baez taking a close look at this case. nice to see you. thanks for talking to us. we certainly appreciate it. >> good morning. thank you for having me. >> a lot of people have said talking about how this affidavit is thin. do you think it is thin and do you think it's thin for a reason? or do you think it's so thin that actually this could lead to this case not having a conviction at the end? >> well, i always had issues with this prosecution being able to get a conviction mainly because you had law enforcement and a prosecutor, independent prosecutor, come across and say there wasn't enough for probable cause. all of a sudden after a little political pressure you're going to have a new prosecutor come in and re-interview some witnesses and then all of a sudden come up with probable cause or actually more than that beyond a reasonable doubt so i would agree and obviously say this is a very thin affidavit. >> in all fairness, some of those witnesses were never interviewed in the first place so they weren't really reinterviewed. it seems like there was a lot of public pressure to get other stories out. for example, the girlfriend of trayvon martin whose testimony we have not seen in full but from what we hear she was on the phone, et cetera. that was a young woman who was never interviewed by law enforcement at any point until there was public pressure her story came out. do you think there's enough for a second-degree murder conviction in this case from what we know? >> i think that's a long shot. extreme long shot. if i can comment on the girlfriend's potential testimony, i think one of the issues that the defense is going to attack immediately is the lack of time that it took for her to come forward. she's on the phone with her boyfriend. later turns out and it is widely disseminated that he has been shot and it's not for several days when one waits for the police to contact them and this is her boyfriend. i think that's an important angle that the defense will attack. i wonder if that testimony has been attailored in any way. by far that's their strongest piece of evidence. >> lawyers said she's a young girl. she's a minor. she was afraid. actually had to have her arm twisted to come forward because she was fearful is what they had said. will, you want to jump in. >> i want to ask jose because he has some agreement here with alan. he's gone farther and called this affidavit unethical and doesn't think it will make it past a judge. what are the odds in your opinion that this never even makes it to trial? >> well, there's going to be a hearing on the stand your ground law where i'm certain the defense will claim immunity from prosecution. there are a number of arguments that will be put forth. what makes it difficult for the defense is that the burden is on the defense. they have to prove by a preponderance of the evidence which means 51% and if they can prove that mr. zimmerman acted in self-defense, this case goes away 100%. there's a critical problem that it looks the only way they can do that successfully is in mr. zimmerman testifies. what that does is it gives the prosecution -- if they're not successful, it gives the prosecution an entire amount of testimony and cross examination long before the trial and it could ultimately affect him should this case go to trial. that's going to be a critical hearing on the stand your ground law. >> if ultimately this is going to come down to what happened in that one or two minutes that really only two people were intimately involved in and one of them is dead, right, so the only person whose story could reveal what happened is george zimmerman. is the goal to just keep him off the stand at all? if you never hear from him and you just sort of have reasonable doubt, would that be your strategy in this case? >> well, it's very early and of course i haven't seen the evidence and i don't know what's going to happen in the future. there's always something in the process of a case and in discovery that affects your strategy and sometimes even in the trial. having said that, if i were going to put that hat on right now, i think that there would be a good possibility that he testifies during the preliminary hearing for the stand your ground law and if that's not successful, then he may not take the stand. they may anticipate that he's going to and he may not, which is of course his right and the jury will never hear that specific portion unless there's certain statements in there that he makes that might be in the prosecution's favor. >> what does the prosecution strategically have to do? here's a guy who has had tangles with the law before. can they connect those cases after anger management classes one was dropped. can they connect that to this particular case prior bad acts kind of thing? >> you can only if they are similar crimes. there has to be something -- it's called williams rule in the state of florida. what that basically means is it's called similar fact evidence. you have to prove certain things like motive or bias. you know, i don't think that these past incidents have any relevance as to what happened with trayvon martin on that specific evening. so the prosecution will have a major uphill battle. if he were convicted of a felony, the only thing that they would be able to get out would be that he was convicted of a felony and how many times he was convicted of a felony. doesn't appear to be the case here so in all likelihood the jury will never hear that. this case is going to be won and lost in jury selection. i would suspect that jury selection would be probably three to four times longer than the actual trial itself. >> which would be how long would you guess jury selection would take? >> three weeks to a month. with all of the exposure that this case has gotten, i would anticipate a change of venue motion. i think it would be insanity to try it in seminole county especially with all of the -- it's not just the coverage. the supreme court has come out and said that national coverage is no reason for change of venue. you have something beyond that. you have a community that is heated up and fired up and they've blocked off the police station. they marched up and down the street. there's no way in the world you're going to get a jury of mr. zimmerman's peers that are fair and balanced in this situation and not tainted by the entire situation. >> jose baez, thank you for the walkthrough on the legal system in florida. really appreciate that. >> thank you. thank you very much for having me. >> it's my pleasure always. let's get right to kate bolduan with a look at our other headlines. >> thank you, soledad. this morning the u.n. security council will consider how to respond to north korea's rocket launch that turned into a dud. the rocket fired last night but broke up moments after launch and landed in the ocean. despite the embarrassment for north korea, president obama still calls it provocative. an all-night armed standoff comes to an end this morning with two suspects found dead. the man and woman faced off with police at a home in new hampshire. police had come to the home earlier in the night as part of a drug investigation. the shootout broke out and the police chief was killed. four other officers were injured. police believe the suspects were killed in either a murder/suicide or double suicide. gunned down police chief michael maloney was days away from retirement and there are only ten officers in that town. turns out money was a big problem for rick santorum. he says it's one of the reasons he dropped out of the gop presidential race. santorum tells fox news fund-raising got too tough after he lost the wisconsin primary. he also says he has not spoken with any of the remaining candidates about giving his endorsement. it's a cardboard dream come true. you have to love this story. we first told you about caine's arcade yesterday. he built it out of cardboard in east los angeles. it was subject of a short film that's had 500,000 views on youtube. now it is getting a valuable upgrade. tmz reports he's offered his choice from a group of real pin ball tables one of which sells for $3,000. will he increase the prices? one of the cutest part is you can get the fun pass for $2 and you get 500 turns. >> four turns for a dollar. for $2, 500 turns. i love that kid. they raised $90,000 for his college scholarship. what a great kid. this morning we talk about a hero maker who deserves a key to his own city which he probably has. new york mayor cory booker saved the life of a woman trapped in her burning home. came home to find his neighbor's house in flames, raced inside. security detail said don't do it. ran up the stairs because he heard a voice. this is almost like out of a movie. heard someone crying on the second floor. grabbed her out of her bed, carried her to safety and ended up suffering from smoke inhalation. he was hospitalized. he's doing okay this morning. he's joining us by phone. mayor booker, nice to talk to you. how are you doing? how are you feeling? >> very good. just very grateful this morning that i'm okay and everyone else is as well. >> i bet. i was giving the dramatic retelling of what happened. i think i was fairly accurate. the house was on fire. you run in. what happened? >> we ran in. i have to give credit to members of my security detail that were there. they were getting everybody out of the house. they noticed the fire before people there. as we were ascending the stairs, the last woman coming out was screaming that her daughter was still in the building. i ran up to the top of the steps with my security detail behind me. something exploded and sent a lot of flames and my detail grabbed me and tried to drag me out of there. we got into a bit of an altercation. i was able to convince them to let go of me and just jumped into the kitchen which was on fire and was able to make my way through there to a back bedroom where the woman was hiding and it was a touch and go moment. i was able to grab her and get back through the kitchen. that's when she sustained some burns and i got some minor burns and got her out of the house. >> your security detail, officer rodriguez, said he thought when you finally went back in and the house was on fire that was it. the next day he would reporting for another detail because you might not make it out. he wasn't kidding. how dangerous do you think -- do you think you were close to maybe not coming back out? >> yeah. i mean, i had a feeling today of a sense of just gratitude. i said i think i've gotten a lot more religious because when i got through the fiery kitchen, the room i came into was just full of smoke. i couldn't find the woman. i looked back behind me and the kitchen was becoming more and more of an inferno. at that point i thought to myself this is. fortunately she called out for me. i was able to feel my way and find her. and then just made the choice. i said we have to go back through that kitchen and was able to carry her that back through. she didn't have much clothes on. her back got burned up. my hand holding her got burned. >> we're glad to see that she's okay and that you're okay for totally selfish reasons we want you back on the program and on the panel. >> i appreciate that. i was accused by my staff that i can't do anymore firefighter negotiations because these guys are real heros and do this on a regular basis. >> you do that for a minute and, wow, that's a very tough gig. mayor booker, we're glad to see you're all right in all seriousness. thank you for talking to us by phone. i love that you're tweeting. a phenomenal tweeter. so the fact that he's tweeting that it's all okay. we appreciate that as well. stay safe. no more fires for you. >> thank you. all the best. >> and he shovels your walk when it snows. >> come on, mayor bloomberg. step it up. still ahead this morning on "starting point," a government agency giving out more awards. more embarrassing details of waste at the gsa. the agency that is in charge of saving taxpayer dollars. $300,000 to relocate an employee to hawaii. also this morning, sammy the fly girls, homey the clown, "in living color" is back. first though, abby's playlist. "good feeling." flo rida. 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daddy...ok! ok, here you go. be careful. thanks dad. call me -- but not while you're driving. ♪ [ dad ] we knew this day was coming. that's why we bought a subaru. ♪ welcome back. we've been telling you all week and part of last week about the lavish spending about the government services administration. it's an agency that is really in charge of saving the government money. first there was news of that 2010 conference in vegas that cost more than $800,000. then came the videos. embarrassing videos of government workers bragging about spending taxpayer money and when you think it can't get worse. it is getting worse. we have a reporter for roll call investigating the scandal. thank you for talking to us. new details emerging and you have been sort of following this. showing examples of waisteful spending. give us details. >> in this latest example we learned at these conferences if you hold an award ceremony, you can bill taxpayers for your dinner events. gsa officials began inventing awards to hold dinner events at every conference they were having and it got to be a running joke. at one point they stopped pretending and they bestowed a jackass award on one employee and this was the justification for taxpayers paying for the dinner event at one of these conferences. >> you can write off the expenses for the meal. a gsa employee who is not named is talking with the inspector general investigator about that jackass award here. >> they spent nearly $500,000 already on dinfferent things frm ipods to mouse pads. the list goes on and on on what they are spending money on. >> that's the wrong clip. let me read it to you. gsa employee says i just remember one year someone got the jackass award for doing something stupid and the inspector says the jackass award got everyone food. the employee says yeah. because it was an award? there was a bunch of them. there was a bunch of goofy awards. what everyone finds offensive about this is it feels like it was widespread and everybody at every level was in on this. is that what you found? >> that's what i thought the importance of this was. obviously it's funny. kind of priceless they would call it that. this agency under fire for wasting taxpayer dollars would award itself a jackass award. at the same time on a more serious level, this does show that every employee was a little bit complicit in this in a sense they knew this was an abuse and everyone was in on the joke and laughing about it. >> i was playing a clip that was a congressman that chairs one of the subcommittees that is looking into this. i would like to go back and play that clip where he talks about the internal rewards program. listen. >> they spent nearly $500,000 already on different things from ipods to a number of different things like mouse pads. the list goes on and on on what they are spending money on. then they have no accountability for who these prizes go to and how they're given away. it's a reward system where employees are basically giving them to one another. >> clearly an effort to score points and attack the administration in this investigation. who ultimately is accountable? is it the current administration? past administration? congress which has oversight of the gsa? is everybody to blame? what do you think? >> the president gets to appoint the leadership for each federal agency and that's the reason why just historically the blame and the credit for what a federal agency does tends to come to his doorstep. at the same time one of the things we're learning about this is that there was kind of a culture of corruption at gsa and that this nearly million dollar las vegas conference with colorful expenses wasn't the first time that some of these abuses occurred. it was something that kind of was a problem that was growing at the agency over several years. >> where do you think it ends? every day will you and i talk about the next video, the next scandal? we didn't get to relocating costs of someone for $300,000 which was insane in hawaii. where does it end or every day a different trip? >> these expenses are so flagrant when i first saw them i thought i can't believe they tried to get away with that. at the same time since i wrote this story, i've been getting e-mails from people who say i've got a family relative who is at this agency and this kind of thing is happening too. so i think that it would be fertile ground to look at expenditures across the federal government right now. >> it's blat antsy that is troubling. appreciate it. jonathan strong of roll call. you were going to say something? >> you asked jonathan where is the blame land? does it land on theed ed administration? if jonathan is right, we need to look at government in general and how efficient it can be. >> that's what he's saying. >> it's not big government, it's good government. halliburton may have ripped off the pentagon for a couple billion in iraq but at least they didn't film it. >> still ahead on "starting point," jim carrey, j. lo, what do they have in common? 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[ traffic passing ] ] ♪ [ music box: lullaby ] [ man on tv, indistinct ] ♪ [ lullaby continues ] [ baby coos ] [ man announcing ] millions are still exposed to the dangers... of secondhand smoke... and some of them can't do anything about it. ♪ [ continues ] [ gasping ] ♪ i made a million by the time i was 10 ♪ ♪ i wrote a love song ♪ and then i got a nose job and changed my skin and made my skin light ♪ >> that takes you back. tommy davidson joins us. he's about to be honored for the ground breaking show. nice to have you. >> nice to be back in new york. ♪ new york >> ground breaking award is what they're giving you for the tvland awards ceremony. the show was on from '90 to '95. >> '91 to '95. >> i was close. >> it was a while back. >> what do you think made it so ground breaking? >> it was actually funny. >> i think he's right. >> there are a lot of shows that got laugh tracks and "saturday night live" had its run, you know what i mean? it was time for something new. it was time for america to look like america really looks with blacks and hispanic and asians all together on one show. like america really looks like. that was the appeal. wait a second. that looks like everybody. that looks like us. this is real. it took us all of the way into the hip-hop era and took us further. >> it launched careers of jim carrey, j. lo. remember when she was a fly girl? >> it just keeps going. >> and fox network. it really helped fox bring in a whole new audience and bring in a new comedy audience. >> it did. fox turned into a huge network after us. >> i'm curious. you talk about timing when it got so big. your explanation is right. i was a kid. sno "saturday night live" was in a lull. you come along and were funny. was there frustration among cast members that we're not getting on "saturday night live," let's make our own? >> i think that's what made a show. went out and got all of the at acts he knew at the time. put them together. let's go. he was ready when the time came. we didn't know if it would get picked up. it got picked up after six months of us sitting around. >> was there pushback? you covered a lot of issues even with the race stuff, there had to be people who were uncomfortable. with a laugh track you want to control. >> i think that's the good thing. we broke a lot of barriers. we didn't care about what people thought. we cared about what was funny and entertaining people and i think that we were genuine about that and that's why the show was successful. >> we have a clip of you doing an impersonation of sammy davis, jr. >> even impressionist can do sammy. >> check it out, baby. ♪ don't do the crime if you can't do the time ♪ ♪ keep your eye >> okay. it is you. no one else would take credit for singing the theme song from "barretta." >> you purchased options for this, right? >> yeah. that's quite an accomplishment. it's a long way coming. long way coming. it's one of the greatest entertainers of all time. probably the greatest entertainer of all time. broke all of the race lines. and an amazing individual. time to do a film. i acquired some intellectual property and now we'll move from there forward. it's a good time for me. >> you'll be sammy? >> yeah. oh, yeah. >> drama or comedy? >> i'll say more on the drama side. his life was one of -- he had a very compelling life. ties with the mob. and there's a rat pack. >> accident. lost his eye. >> jewish faith. >> as a black dude. story. drama. there we go. we're getting there. married on the top white actress in hollywood when blacks couldn't eat ice cream in the diner. his life represents what america has become. >> when do you think we'll see that on the big screen? >> i think very, very soon. you know, i'm in that time in my career where things are happening for me. you know, i've been a part of a team for a long time. >> you talk like you're 75 years old. >> i'm 48. that's like 75 in white man age. >> will there be a reunion? there's so much material to work with today. i wish could you get back together and play around with it a little bit. >> obama would say i can't deny or confirm. i think that they're going to get together. they are like the x men and they did a good job bringing them together and tommy davidson is the beast in x men so it should be good. >> nice to have you. congratulations on the award and the movie. let us know when it's coming out. still ahead this morning on "starting point," she was there when monica lewinsky and clarence thomas and senator larry craig, list goes on and on and on, all of them found themselves in the middle of a major crisis. that new tv series "scandal" was inspired by the real life crisis management expert judy smith. ms. smith will join us coming up. and a case that one family says is similar to trayvon martin's case. retired marine shot and killed in his own home by police who were responding to his medical alert device. we'll talk to that veteran's son straight ahead. you're watching "starting point." short break. we're back in a moment. with every door direct mail from the postal service, you'll find the customers that matter most: the ones in your neighborhood. print it yourself, or we'll help you find a local partner. and postage is under 15 cents. i wish i would have known that cause i really don't think i chose the best location. it's not so bad. i mean you got a deal... right? [ bird cries ] go online to reach every home, every address, every time with every door direct mail. enough plastic water bottles to stretch around the earth over 190 times. each brita filter can take up to 300 of those bottles out of the equation. welcome back, everybody. this is a developing story that we're following. a grand jury hearing is now under way to find out why 68-year-old kenneth chamberlain who was a vietnam veteran and resident of the white plains, new york, was shot and killed inside his home after his medical alert pennant was accidentally activated. >> the officers first used an electronic taser, which was discharged. hit the victim and had no effect. while the officers were retreating, the officers then used a shotgun, a bean bag shotgun. >> eventually the officers fired on chamberlain. two bullet shots and they claimed it was self-defense. family members say video and audio recordings taken from multiple sources at the scene tell a different story. a story in which the police taunted and abused chamberlain even using the n word talking through his door before they fired the lethal lawn. chamberla chamberlain's niece and neighbor stood outside while the events unfolded. >> i heard them ask if he had any family. i said from the steps, yes, he does. no one responded to that. >> mr. chamberlain would have been 69 years old yesterday. joining us this morning is his son, kenneth, jr., and his attorney randy mclocklynn. i guess what people find so surprising is that there is actually audio and video evidence in this case. often you hear these stories and it's a he said or police said and the other side is but in this case there's evidence. have you had a chance to see this evidence? >> i was given the opportunity by the westchester county d.a.'s office permitting myself and my attorneys to view the video and listen to the audio. >> video from the hallway camera? >> from the taser. i haven't seen any video from the hallway yet. >> the taser has video the minute you basically get ready to use it. take the safety off. what did the video from the taser show you? >> the video showed my father standing approximately maybe eight to ten feet away from the officer with the taser in his hand and it showed my father with his hands down with just boxers on. >> any weapon in his hand? >> we couldn't see a weapon. immediately they fired the taser. i guess one of the prongs went in but the other one didn't so you kept hearing an officer say, hit it again, hit it again, hit it again and then finally you hear an officer say shut it off. >> there's also an audio recording, randy, that i guess triggered once you hit that life alert device. how critical is that going to be in this case? it's now before the grand jury? >> i think that audio is critical. what the audio does is records the entire confrontation from the moment the police showed up almost until the moment he was shot. the audio is cut off right before he is shot, sometime before that, but it records most if not all of the incident and what it shows and i don't think police officers knew they were being recorded. most of the time in these cases you don't have any independent recording of what's going on, what's transpiring. here you do. i think this case is a tragedy of errors from one moment to the next from start to finish, this police department, these police officers did everything wrong. >> one of the things that's so sad and i know you've had a chance to listen to the audiotape is literally the taunting that the officers who are outside of your father's door were doing to your father, 68-year-old vietnam vet who had pretty serious medical problems. part of the reason he had the medical alert device. tell me a little bit about that back and forth that was going on. >> well, i have told people before that in 45 years, that was the first time that i had ever heard my father pretty much begging for his life asking the officers why they are doing this to him. he's a 68-year-old man with a heart condition. could they please leave him alone. he's saying i didn't call you. i don't need any assistance. you hear the officers as he's asking them one of them why they doing this to him. they use an ex-plattive saying they don't give an f and then use the n word. immediately when you hear these things, i was very clear not to make this a racial issue in the beginning. i said i'm not going to do that. it's a police misconduct thing. but when you hear expletives and you hear a racial slur, you can't help but look at it from a racial standpoint. >> he told them he was a vietnam vet, right? >> he said that a few times. he said you're a marine, huh? then you hear them say hoorah. the officials have said that it wasn't said in a derogatory way but you were taunting him. you were telling officers were saying they wanted to get in to use the bathroom. that's not the word that they use but for national television i won't say what they said. everything was unprofessional in the whole way they approached my father. >> what happens now? the case is in the second day of hearings. it has had two days of hearings for the grand jury and you still have a number of people to be interviewed. when do you think that the case will go into trial? there's an officer at the center of the case? >> the first question is whether or not there will be an indictment. we believe that after a full and fair hearing at the grand jury, that there should be an indictment. this is a homicide. unjustified homicide. there were officers there. what did they do to prevent or to protect this man who was in his home minding his own business at 5:00 a.m.? this afternoon with the grand jury we'll take a witness to the grand jury, a family member, who was actually present during the altercation and heard and saw much of what happened. >> you know what the saddest thing is and we had a chance to talk about this story is that ultimately police came because the life alert was triggered. they were there really to help save his life. if he had a medical emergency, they were going to be the ones to break down the door and try to save him and get him to safety. of course at the end of an hour and 15, 20 minutes, it just they were the ones who ended up killing him. >> something went wrong. i don't know if it comes down to training. i don't know if it was just those officers' mentality. i don't know. all i know now is that my father is no longer with us. >> randy and kenneth, thank you for talking to us. we'll continue to follow this story because i think when that audiotape becomes available and when that videotape is released by the d.a.'s office, it will be it is fascinating to hear and see what's on that tape and what's on that audio. thank you very much for being with us. our condolences again about your dad. such a sad story. we'll take a short break. back in just a moment. ♪ [ sighs ] [ bird chirps ] [ bird squawks ] ♪ [ bird screeching ] ♪ [ elevator bell dings ] [ sighs ] how mad is she? 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[ male announcer ] aarp is bringing the conversation on medicare and social security out from behind closed doors in washington. because you've earned a say. hey, it's sandra -- from accounting. peter. i can see that you're busy... but you were gonna help us crunch the numbers for accounts receivable today. i mean i know that this is important. well, both are important. let's be clear. they are but this is important too. [ man ] the receivables. [ male announcer ] michelin knows it's better for xerox to help manage their finance processing. so they can focus on keeping the world moving. with xerox, you're ready for real business. >> this is my anthem. that's glory gaynor. "i will survive." that is my anthem this morning. you can catch our playlist every morning at cnn.com/startingpoint. if you are caught up in a scandal, this is the woman to call if you are. it's a new tv series scandal that's inspired by the real life scandal expert, judy smith. she's going to join us to talk about how to get out of a crisis if you are in one. you're watching "starting point." we're back in a moment. ♪ pop goes the world ♪ it goes something like this ♪ everybody here is a friend of mine ♪ ♪ everybody, tell me, have you heard? ♪ ♪ pop goes the world ♪ pop goes the world [ female announcer ] pop in a whole new kind of clean with new tide pods... a powerful three-in-one detergent that cleans, brightens, and fights stains. pop in. stand out. my first car had deer lights on top... a spare tire strapped to the front grill... and the seat was more of a small couch made of green pleather. it was hideous. it was loud. it was my mom and dad's way of forcing abstinence i'm sure. and it worked....sadly. 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[ kyle ] it's like we're connected. no we're not. yeah, we are. no...we're not. ♪ the allstate value plan. dollar for dollar, nobody protects you like allstate. welcome back, everybody. this is an inside look at the sometime dirty world of politics in washington, d.c. and more importantly the person who cleans up the mess. it's a new abc series called "scandal." have you had a chance to see this? so good. will cain, get with it. you can watch it on abc player. it's life of a crisis manager handling situations like a woman who claims she's having an affair with the president. watch. >> get a little job, meet a boring boy, meet friends because in this town your career is over. you're done. >> why are you doing this to me? i'm a good person. >> you know who else was a good person? monica lewinsky and she was telling the truth but she still got destroyed. >> if you get subpoenaed in front of the grand jury you can testify that i was working on my own. i didn't blackmail or threaten her. if you don't get subpoenaed, this never happened. it's handled. >> okay. i'm in love with her right there. >> she's a tough cookie. >> the inspiration of this character. judy smith whose client list reads of a who's who of people in deep trouble who needed help. it's bad self that you are helping people deal with. how close is that show to what you do? how cool is it that they pick carrie washington to play you? >> she's an incredible actress. my show is inspired by my crisis work. i didn't have an affair with the president. that's the key point. >> i was going to ask that. >> i want to get that straight right off the bat. you know, the show's creator has done a great job. she's taken that high wire act of crisis and drama in our lives and she's dramatized it for television. you have to have tv. you have to make it interesting. >> walk me through the steps. someone calls and says and probably someone in politics at a high level says i'm in trouble. what do you tell them? what do you do? >> first thing i tell them is you need to tell me the truth. sometimes it's very hard for people to face into that as we've seen in so many examples here in washington. with weiner who did not believe those were the pictures. maybe his mom but otherwise not too many people. the other thing that's important in a crisis really is you have to know the facts. not the facts really as they would like for them to be but really the facts as they really are. >> monica lewinsky was one of your clients. >> yes. that was really an interesting time. it was one of those tough situations where you are really trying to make sure that your client does not go to jail and then you have all of this presidency and the weight of that surrounding you as well. >> do you ever have to represent somebody who you really personally dislike? like you're fighting to clear their name or get them to a safe place and yet you stand for everything i despise? >> it's not even a question of like honestly. there are some cases i just won't do. >> like what? >> it's like obscenity with the supreme court. you know it when you see it. there are things i decide that is not for me. >> i'm curious, you talked about monica lewinsky and weiner and how times have changed and with this twitter world kind of taking over everything, the conversation, has that changed your role and how do you handle these situations when you can't control what's getting out in the public? >> i think with all of that it's made it really so much more difficult to deal with crisis. as we've seen, somebody can put something out on a blog and it's not true or it's framed where you don't have facts and you have someone like the president and white house out there not denying it but supporting it and someone gets fired. and then they get to be asked to get rehired. you know what i mean? you have to move quick but at the same time you want to be very careful about things. >> what is your job? is your job to make your client -- >> what do i do? >> when you have your job and a client comes to you, what is your job? to make that client look as good as possible amidst the crisis? >> what i do in crisis management is we work with corporations and individuals and try to solve problems large and small. in that process though, we are mindful and we try to protect the person's reputation and their brand. you really have to do it in a way that is not only organic but believable. people expect the truth. the other thing i always say in crisis is that the american public is very forgiving. when you tell the truth and you fess up and you say you made a mistake, people are usually forgiving of that. >> everybody loves a redemption story. so nice to have you. good luck with your book. it's called "good self bad self." nice to have you. we appreciate it. end point with our panel is up next. stay with us. today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe? let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers. i get my cancer medications through the mail. now washington, they're looking at shutting down post offices coast to coast. closing plants is not the answer. they want to cut 100,000 jobs. it's gonna cost us more, and the service is gonna be less. we could lose clientele because of increased mailing times. the ripple effect is going to be devastating. congress created the problem. and if our legislators get on the ball, they can make the right decisions. >> it's friday. in honor of will cain's beard, we're going

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