Transcripts For CNNW Reliable Sources 20190616

And later the fallout from trumps socalled zero tolerance policy at the border. Well speak with a reporter who tracked down this 4monthold baby and what happened when he was separated from his patients. But first, a headline in this weekends New York Times. Trumps foggy truth meets the fog of war. Right now trump is lashing out at this paper once again, even accusing it of virtual treason. We are so way off the deep end. But were going to step back a few days and start with something that trump said in that abc interview a few days ago. I like the truth. You know, im actually a very honest guy. I like the truth you know, im actually a very honest guy. I like the truth. I think this animation says it all. We had to rewind that one to hear it again. The president saying hes honest and he likes honesty. Trump often hits the media for lacking credibility. He says the media has zero credibility. But its clear hes really just projecting his own biggest weakness. When you dont have trust, you dont have anything. And most americans clearly do not trust President Trump. This is one of those realities that impacts every single conversation about american politics. It is the foundation of the house. It is the thing that turns the solid ground to swampy mud. Even some of the president s supporters know he lies all the time. And it really platters at moments like this. Heres the New York Times headline as trump accuses iran, he has one problem. His own credibility. As you know, the Trump Administration is blaming iran for these oil tanker attacks in the gulf of oman. Theres been lots of conflicting information and very little concrete evidence. So trust, credibility, its most important at times like these. But trump has squandered 10 thousands, 196 times in a row. Of course, his biggest fans dont think they can trust the tv anchors pointing this out. That is whats called polarization in action. Thats also partly due to people like Sarah Sanders, part of this problem. Shes now leaving the job after nearly two years and shes leaving a big void. Shes leave agempty White House Press briefing room. Its been 97 days without a daily on camera press briefing. Whats the impact of this lack of access . Whats the impact of this lack of trust . Lets talk about it now with our panel who is joining me here in new york, sim, a former Senior Adviser of the National Security council under obama, now a cnn National Security analyst, columnist max boot is here and media columnist for the post Margaret Sullivan is here. Margaret, first to you, in one sentence what is Sarah Sanders legacy . She tried to mislead reporters. In doing that, she tried to mislead the American Public. Thats the very opposite of what she should have been doing because its the American Public that actually employs here. We lose out. Max, whats your one sentence. Well, sara sanders said that her legacy was going to be she was transparent and honest. In fact, it is that she was opaque and dishonest. She was a liar representing a liar. And sam, yours . Who is Sarah Sanders . I thought donald trump was press secretary. Lets come back to that in a moment. Do you think, margaret, the death of the White House Briefing matters . Ive been talking a lot about it. Do you think it matters. I do. I think thats an opportunity for reporters to bring up subjects, try to hold the president accountable. I mean, it certainly became less valuable, but it was an important thing and it should be returned to. So who is going to be press secretary . Look at a few of the contenders out there in the past few days. You know one of them, Manuel Ortega gas has been talked about this job, so have hogan gidley at the white house right now and many 0 others. Any sense he sam, whether it will be morgan or someone else. I think morgan is happy at the state department. What does it matter who the new press secretary is . Donald trump briefs the press every day by tweet. Last night we had him saying that reporters should be executed for doing their jobs. Whomever actually decides to take that position is irrelevant. Youre talking about his tweet involving the New York Times and treason. accused the New York Times of a virtual act of treason which is a Death Penalty offense. Hes referring to a story in sundays New York Times all about russia. The headline in print u. S. Buries digital land mine to menace russias power grid. Sum up the story for us, sam. Its about the u. S. Basically using Cyber Security techniques to undermine russias power grid. Is that the story. It is. Russia launches Cyber Attacks against the United States in our most private places, election infrastructure as well as our electric infrastructure and even residential homes. So the president authorized the pentagon, the department of defense to level the Playing Field by launching similar attacks against russian infrastructure. My of take and the tweet he issued last night, who is he worried about upsetting . Hes tweeting about executing journalists we. Hes not literally doing that. Hes saying treason is punishable by death and its a dangerous statement to make. My question again, brian, who is he worried about upsetting with the story in the United States is launching these operations to try to protect our country from further attacks. And hes weeks away from seeing putin. Is he worried putin is going to react negatively to the story or worried about the fact that buried in that story it says his own team is worried about briefing him because theyre worried hes going to leak the information. Hes lashing out at the times rather than vladimir putin. The quote says twos Administration Officials said they believed mr. Trump had not been briefed in detail about his efforts due to possible concerns that he would share it with russia or Something Like that. Max, what were you going to add. Thats the big news here. Its not so much that we are taking steps to potentially sabotage the russian power grid. The real story is that Donald Trumps own defense and intelligence officials dont trust him. They dont necessarily think he has the best interests of america at heart. And by the way, his claim that the times was guilty of tree on is absurd. Its bogus. If you read the story itself, it says they ran these charges by the National Security council. They ran the story by the National Security council and the nsc had no problem with publishing. This is part of a messaging campaign by the u. S. Government to essentially deter the russians. This is the u. S. Government acting essentially independently of the president of the United States which should be cause for alarm on multiple levels. Here is the statement from the New York Times that begins by saying accusing the press of treason is dangerous. We described the article to the government before publication as our story notes, President Trumps own National Security officials said there were no concerns. So margaret, your reaction when the president uses extreme language like this. Just when we think it cant get any worse when he uses terms like enemy of the people or fake news on that kind of thing this ratchets it up. The other point i would make is that in almost every case in which the president has attacked press or said thats fake or the press is corrupt, the story turns out to be true. And we know that from the Mueller Report. So many things that he had said were not the case turn out in the Mueller Report to have been economy solid. So you know, his credibility is shot. Look at how incoherent his tweets are. On the one hand hes saying that the New York Times are guilty of treason. But its not true. How could they be guilty if its not true. How could he know if its true if he hasnt been briefed. I worked for obama and bush. Both president s regularly got briefed on what we were doing against active hostile foreign powers. Not only is the National Security team trying to have to manage the president. Hes not even asking to be updates on some of the most important operations were undertaking against our biggest enemies. All of this is pretty frightening to be talking about especially in the context of escalating tensions with iran. Max, what is your advice for the press in the coming days and weeks as we larry all about the u. S. Versus iran . I think you cannot take whatever this Administration Says at face value. That is tragic but it is a reality. This is a president we have documentation that he has lied almost 11,000 times since coming into office. We know they have tried to manipulate intelligence. Donald trump routinely. The president has tried to manipulate intelligence. I dont know that the Intelligence Community has tried to manipulate it. Not just the president , also the National Security adviser. There was a story about how john bolton tried to blame iran for an attack in kabul which was claimed by the taliban. Its very hard to take at face value what theyre saying. I do think its most likely the case the iranian were behind these attacks in the gulf. You have to be skeptical with anything coming out of this administration. That is the cost of not having any credibility. Thats exactly right. We need evidence, journalists have to depend evidence. Panel, please stick around. We are monitoring the mass demonstrations in hong kong. Lets show you the pictures coming out of that city right now. These are yet another day of these incredible inspiring protests, citizens there protesting a proposed extradition bill. Well keep a close eye on whats going on in hong kong. Coming up, President Trumps willingness to accept dirt in 2020. What about american newsrooms . What will they do the next time a foreign power tries to interfere in an election . Thats next. Award winning interface. Award winning design. Award winning engine. The volvo xc90. The most awarded luxury suv of the century. The volvo xc90. I felt i couldnt be at my best wifor my family. C, in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. I faced reminders of my hep c every day. But in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. Even hanging with friends i worried about my hep c. But in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. Mavyret is the only 8week cure for all common types of hep c. Before starting mavyret your doctor will test if youve had hepatitis b which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. Tell your doctor if youve had hepatitis b, a liver or kidney transplant, other liver problems, hiv1, or other medical conditions, and all medicines you take including herbal supplements. 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For people with hearing loss, visit sprintrelay. Com welcome back to reliable sources. Im bribe stelter. This scene from trumps interview with abc has been dominating the news for days, trump saying hes open to hearing dirt from foreign governments about his upons in 2020. But are newsrooms prepared to answer the same question . What should we do the next time stolen documents show up at the digital door. We remember what happened in 2016 with wikileaks. Margaret sullivan you wrote about this in a column this year, what should journalists should do when hacked stolen data shows up designed to disrupt an election. You say dont publish weaponized gossip. There has to be an exceedingly high bar for anything that makes its way into our, into, the public eye through us. And anything thats gossipy or doesnt have extraordinarily high news value should be disoftened immediately. The other really important thing here is to make it clear where anything is coming from. Thats actually is the story. I mean we dont know what the information might be. You also wrote in your column weve got to nail down and emphasize the source of the hack. Thats exactly what youre say here, make clear the motivation of the hack. Maybe not publish anything at all. Sam, how big of a fallure was this in 2016 when this russian attempt to interfere with the election was spread through media outlets. We know not Mueller Report that the russian intelligence reports tried to launder stolen information through reporters. The gru, the Russian Investigation Services According to mueller push this had information to reporters because they viewed the u. S. Media as a laundromat for stolen information. The key point here is reporters should know their source. The russian government isnt trying to inform the American Public with this information. They have a strong bias pushing this information out as part of their agenda to undermine the United States. Its not meant to inform but to confuse and demoralize. The story were talking about it because of abcs interview with the president. George stephanopoulos won the week journalism wise by having two days with President Trump, repeated interviews will air in a special later today. Theres been a reaction from some on fox news saying why would President Trump talk to abc at all . What do you make of those kinds of reactions. They dont like what he las to say or its embarrassing and theyre trying to blame the messenger rather than the pless ac. This is preposterous as if somehow George Stephanopoulos tricked donald trump into saying he would make suess of foreign election interference in the future and not call the fbi. Stephanopoulos did not make him say that. This is the president saying he will not uphold his oath of office and betray the country and not guard the National Security. Fox is trying to pretend the democrats are relitigate the election or there is no different from the Clinton Campaign hiring fusion gps to Research Donald Trump or somehow that this is no different from trump talking to the queen of england. This is so preposterous. I dont know whats more offensive the fact trump does not have our National Security at heart or people make stuff up to defend him. We did see the trump tv gooed feedback loop in action. The first time on cnbc. He didnt like what the chamber of commerce said. He called into cnbc. At the end of the week, he called fox and friends to try to clean up his abc mess. Heres what happened at the end of the fox and friends interview. Heres what steve does i said. Thank you very much. Thanks so much. We thought that interview might go ten minutes. It went 15 minutes and 20 seconds. We appreciate the president taking timeout to explain all that stuff to all of you. It did last 15 minutes. There wasnt much news made. The odd thing about this been was you actually saw fox and friends trying to wrap the president. Well, mr. President , we know you have a very busy day and its your birthday. So long. Its really an odd sight to see. It is. There is no polling this weeking about impeachment that shows a supply the about impeachment among american voters. 27 say yes, there should be an impeachment hearing right now. Another 24 say maybe later, once there are more investigations. And 48 of americans say no, the president should finish out his term. There should not be impeachment proceedings. Striking numbers from this poll. I wonder what you all think, i admit a provocative question. Is the press rooting for impeachment . Do journalists want to see the president impeached . The press have different views, different news outlets and media outlets. Is there something to the idea news rooms want to see impeachment hearings . I dont think so. They report the facts. Thats what they do. They report what congress is doing and what various political constituencies are thinking. Im not a journalist. Im an analyst. Im paid to provide my opinion. Journalists are reporting facts. I dont think that putting the press in one basket is helpful. Trump does that, but we shouldnt do that. There have been a number of prominent democrats saying its the media making all this noise. She says the media focuses on pro impeachment democrats and interviews them often. Isnt that a real critique shes making . Thats again blaming messenger. The real impetus is coming from a lot of democratic president ial candidates appealing to the base and i think there is a split in the media. Theres not a monolithic view. Leaving reporters aside who are supposed to be reporting the news but even looking at analysts and opinionmongers like me, personally im am bib lent about it. I think that on legal and moral grounds, yes, trump needs to be impeached because he has broken the law and betrayed the constitution. Im also cognizant of the political reality he is not going to be convicted by a republican controlled senate. He could use that to claim unfair exoneration. You see even among commentators very critical of trump like me, there is a split. Some say lets go forward with impeachment others say knowing she shouldnt. Pel at the is in the no we shouldnt camp for the moment. The number of mentions about impeachment have clearly been on the rise. The spring of 201 versus the spring of 201. Versus this spring. Its in the air. I dont think the media put it what President Trump has done, the release of the Mueller Report, all of these things add to you know, the political and cultural environment that brings impeachment to the fore. But i do not hear talking to straight news journalists that theres a push. Thats just really anathema to the way we do business. What about the business model. Dont web sites want the clicks and rate prosecution impeachment hearings . They may but i dont think that thats a reason that i have not heard journalists talking that way. That may be going on in the background or in corporate offices but i dont think that journalists even really think that way. Back to saps point its important to separate between commentatorses who do want impeachment and advocating for it, liberal journalists at left leaning magazines advocating for it versus news rooms and journalists. I do think as match said, you have to draw a distinction between commentators and news reporters. And theres a big difference there and we ought to honor it. And in a sentence, i would say its not the media pushing for impeachment. Its reality thats pushing for impeachment. You know youre going to show up on fox for that bite. Thats a bite theyll use against you. Help yourself, guys. To the panel, thank you. A quick break and well talk with one of the 2020 contenders who has earned a spot on the debate stage. Andrew yang joins us in just a moment. Or this john smith. Or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana Medicare Advantage members. No, its this john smith. Who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. At humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care thats just as unique as you are. No matter what your name is. N music plays throughout [ slurps ] gwhos a good boy . Its me. Me, me, me. Hey guys youre gonna want to get in on this. I know how to those guys in here. Lets pause the internet on their devices. Wohhh . Huhhhh . [ grumbling ] all sausages mmm, mmmm. Bon appetite. Make time for what matters. Pause your wifi with xfinity xfi and see the secret life of pets 2 in theaters. Ten days out from the first democratic primary debate. Now we know the lineup night one and night two, well see these candidates on night one and then the mix for night number two. One of the candidates in that second night is andrew yang. Hes go to be on stage with joe biden and others and joining me right now. Andrew, youve had a lot of interesting momentum behind your campaign. Certainly a lot of social media attention. Whats your strategy to stand out on the debate stage . You made a thing about wanting to to be next to joe biden zploon most americans are getting to know me and the campaign. The goal is to introduce myself, my vision for the country and let people know the reason why trump is our president we automated away 4 Million Manufacturing jobs in michigan, ohio, wisconsin and pennsylvania. That automation will spread to retail and other parts of the economy economy. Why have you been saying su want to be literally next to biden. His name recognition is sky high and mine is the opposite of sky high. If you have me next to joe biden its hopefully going to make it so that Many Americans are googling the asian man next to joe biden. It would be like who is that guy. Im sure i would have the same reaction. Most americans just tuning into the 2020 election, most people have not heard of the majority of candidates. What else are you trying to do . You have a book called the war on normal people. It captures your attention. What else have you been doing to gain attention. We i first announced most Cable Networks werent that excited to have me on immediately. Were not that excited . Were not that excited. I understand i didnt have a national reputation. I wasnt a senator or governor. I did a series of podcast interview has have pushed meed to a point where im 3 in South Carolina and other states, one of the top eight candidates by any objective measurement closing in on 130,000 doves. Now the networks are excited to have me on. You think the podcasts did it help you to catapult you a little bit. Yeah, the top podcast audiences now are significantly larger than able news viewership. And so certainly the joe roggin podcast has been even on you five 3 million times alone just on youtube and millions more times in audio format and others. Podcasts are this new form of getting your message out to the public that have been instrumental for my campaign. It is the podcasting primary. What about this msnbc graphic kerfuffle. Some of your friends were saying why is andrew yang not showing up on this graphic of all the other candidates here . What happened here. It was confusing to employee because id been on msnbc a number of times. I qualified not just yesterday but qualified awhile ago. My supporters were rightfully confused why are you listing literally two dozen candidates and omitting a candidate in the top eight or ten and qualified for the debates. There was a lot of the both confusion and anger on the part of my supporters. I frankly didnt know what to tell them. Its not like i had a line into msnbc to tell them. This was the standard theyre using. They have adjusted it. That is an example how viewers can make a difference. If theres a mistake, an innocent mistake, call it out. Your socalled yang gang has been criticized. A lot of concern theyre too nasty on social media. Are you trying to make sure the temperature remains relatively cool . You know, i havent seen that. When i interact with folks online, maybe this is me. Maybe theyre not like directing harsh comments towards me. Its an extraordinarily wholesome positive pro social energy and vibe. I sincerely apologize if anyone eshas effective countered anything different online. Youre not the only candidate what trolls do in a candidates name. Bernie sanders has had a similar issue. Tell me about the american journalism fellows proposal you made. You were out with this before anybody was paying attention to the race. Youre suggesting governmentive investment for news rooms. If you look around the country, over 1200 local newspapers have shut their doors. If you dont have local journalism, voting becomes more polarized and extreme. You dont have local news, youre going to vote along party affiliation. If you believe in a vibrant or functional democracy, you have to believe in local journalism. Local papers used to rely upon dallasified ad reb knew to survive. Its disappeared to the internet and craigslist. Do we believe in democracy. If so, we have to find ways to support journalist around the country. I have a local journalism fund. We need to help communities adapt to the sustainable models of journalism. For the voters who say i dont want the government to pay for news because that tairnts the news, what do you say . My frap work, they would be beginning matching funds to local organizations. Not like theres any say in what the heck gets published. Weve gone through there fortunate period where the market could support journalism and now we are leaving that period. So if you want local journalism to survive which is a must, then there are limited sources of funds and the federal government is to me the most sensible one. As you gain more momentum, so comes more media conch including more media scrutiny, more critical coverage. Headlines about that recently. How are you handling that. Whats that like as someone who hasnt been in the public eye to this degree before. Most americans are still getting to know me. Im excited whenever anyone turns the spotlight on me. You dig into our vision for a trickle up economy, freedom dividend of 1,000 per american adult per month for an economy that revolves around making us healthier and stronger and not this phantom gdp measurement. Any press is good press. I dont offend easily. If anyone says something not 100 positive about me, someone digs in. I believe in the discernment of the american people. Americans are very smart and can figure out what candidates are about. Thanks for being here. Happy fathers day. Dad. You said what 6 and 3. Quick break here and then talking about a story you may have seen on social media this week about sinclair. One its local station had a meteorologist speaking out against the networks scare tactics. Why sensationalism is such a problem in news. Introducing miraclegros next big thing. Performance organics. Finally organics that work. Tested and refined by plant scientists. For twice the results, guaranteed. Dont grow a snack, grow a feast. Dont grow a flower, grow a Million Dollar view. This new organic collection of soil and plant food is what you always wanted. No compromise, just results, guaranteed. Miraclegro performance organics. Welcome to seattle. Where people are into coffee, tech, and retirement planning. 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When insurance is affordable, its surprisingly painless. When you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea try new pepto liquicaps for fast relief and ultracoating. Nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea get powerful relief with new pepto bismol liquicaps. Who cried wolf . Heres a tv station that cried code red. Joe crain is a popular meteorologist. He was at wics in illinois. But the station owned by sinclair. He was fired a few days ago after taking issue with the stations code red policy. They were told they had to call out these code red weather alert days when there was possibly Severe Weather anywhere nearby. So he called this out on air. He expressed his regret over what he called a corporate initiative. Heres part of what he said. When you hear code red, you think as they say, the feces is about to hit the fan. Behind the scenes many of us have tried to dissuade it for the last few months. He was never on the air after that viral video happened. Now hes been sacked. Its been a code red for the station because the community is upset. Let me bring in david zer which can from the baltimore sun. Weve talked about sinclair in the past. This is about sensationalism and scare tactics in television news. Those are far too mon, david. Youre absolutely right about that. Weather is one of the key parts where that happens. You know, in baltimore, if you say theres going to be snow, you know, three inches people freak out and go and buy toilet paper and clean out the grocery stores. Im from wisconsin. Its got to be 30 feet before. It always struck me that and this is in fairness to sinclair. Everybody does it, brian, in tv news because its so easy to do. Heres the larger thing that i think is really dangerous about it and nobody does it to this extent where your meteorologist goes before the camera and feels he has to call you out on it and to use something as egregious as code red. If journalism is supposed to give citizens information they can use to make good decisions about their lives, in tv news, weather is one of the most important of those realms because if you say youre in florida and theres a hurricane coming or youre in tornado ally or in the upper midwest and theres a storm, its life and death information. You have to have it. So when stations aired a little bit i say better to air on the side of saying its going to be worse than its going to be. This is different. When do you it to this extent, its as you said in your setup, its crying wolf. When the real wolf comes, nobody pays attention and people can get killed. This is really dangerous. Yeah. Ive got a viewer named marge go, what about the breaking news banners on cnn and other cable news channels. Shes absolutely right. National cable news net works overuse the breaking news label. There are a lot of examples of this of hyping the news na we always got to think about pulling back on and be sensitive about. Absolutely. It is a problem for tv news. You know, when they use live a lot. When somebody is standing in front of the School Board Building at 10 00 at night for 11 00 at night and it says live because the persons live but theres nothing live in that building at that hour. Right, right. What did you make of jon stewart on capitol hill earlier this week advocating for 9 11 heroes who need health care . Their scene of course, made National News in part because the hearing room was almost empty. He racial knows how to use his celebrity power to move congress, doesnt . He yes, all power to jon stewart. God bless him having the sense of righteousness, the social conscience and coming on with kind of moral authority. And were in desperate need of moral authority especially when it comes to washington. So we do have a strong reaction to it. Theres no doubt that this hearing his words in this hearing helped further the cause of getting that money cleared for first responders. But heres the danger i think in our culture today. We think tv hearings is going to change the world totally. You know we heard Christine Ford talk about the high school, her allegation that she was raped by Brett Kavanaugh and a friend and they laugh at her that was an incredibly powerful, moving testimony by i cant remember being that rocked by a tv hearing. Yet, when it was all over, Brent Kavanaugh was on the Supreme Court and we moved on. This is a danger. It takes more than tv hearings and hash tag in social media to change this culture. Sometimes you have to march in the street. Sometimes you have to knock on doors and join political movements. And weve lost that. We believe so much in oisa it on tv. It must have changed the world. It didnt. Wheen my Mitch Mcconnell and those folks are making the deals pa thut people on the Supreme Court. Were moved by hearings. Theyre move by what they can achieve the way Lyndon Johnson used to do it. I think of mcconnell as the evil Lyndon Johnson which is really bad if you think what Lyndon Johnson was. Great to see you. Up next here, reporters trying to get answers about family separations. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in Clinical Trials to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Or psoriatic arthritis, Little Things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats differently. For psoriasis, 75 clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. For psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. And the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. It may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. And if youre pregnant or planning to be. Ready to treat differently with a pill . Otezla. Show more of you. On this fathers day, we still dont know exactly how many children have been separated from their moms and dads at the u. S. mexico border. Its been about a year since the Trump Administration appeared to reverse court on that zrast disastrous socalled zero poltance policy. Heres the thing. Breakups are still happening and there are more headlines every day describing dire conditions at the Detention Centers where most of these families are being held nationwide. A recent report from a security watchdog described dangerous overcrowding and unsanitary conditions during four unannounced visits last year. Reporters have had a very hard time gaining access these facilities. Also gaining access to basic information about whats going on. Lets talk more about that with kaitlan dickerson, immigration reporter for the New York Times and a cnn analyst. She has a documentary airing tonight on fx about one of these cases. Thanks for being here. Thank you. What is the biggest hurdle in covering this beat right now . There are breakups sometimes at the border and families are sthims sent together to these facilities. What are we not seeing. Theres a lot we dont know. The biggest hurdle is theres so much changing in immigration landscape all at once. If you want to take family separation in particular, you alluded to this a little bit. The federal government acknowledged last summer that family separations were taking place but we now know for almost a year beforehand, they were also going on. Really in secret. Then as you said, the government reversed course. We need to try to account for the separations that took place in that intervening year and yet, now, separations are still taking place. And the big problem is that to this day, we still dont have a binding policy for who should be separated and who shouldnt along the border. These are discretionary decisions being made from individual Border Agents. Thats why you continue to see the stories and twitter threads bubble up with separations that appear to be dubiously justified because theres no rules even to this day. No rules. Some of this problem is were not getting information from the government. In other cases they dont have anything to tell us because theres no policy. When you do get information, is it accurate . Is it truthful . Can you believe what dhs and the other Government Agencies are telling us. As somebody covering immigration for years, ive really come up against for a long time faulty data that can affect our comprehensive our ability to get a comprehensive understanding of whats happening at the border. You look at family separation specifically. We learned under, because of a sort of federal Court Lawsuit and judgment we learned that a lot of the separations that took place between 201 and 2018 werent documented at all. So the government didnt have records to give us. And we do run into problems when were looking at other questions, how many people are seeking asylum. Thats a hard question. How many people are caught trying to sneak into the country versus how much walk up to Border Agents and request protection which is a legal thing to do about the records are quite muddy. The faulty data may be innocent. It doesnt mean someones trying to intentionally confuse the public but faulty data is faulty data. Thats right. Look at immigration policies like the travel ban. To me there were a lot of parallels there when youre going to make a really big change like blocking people from coming into the United States or like separating parents from their children, when you unroll that policy, you might want to have a plan in place for lou youre going to do it and how youre going to record it. Is there actively a Misinformation Campaign about these subs going on . I wouldnt go that far. I think this a political issue and it very much behooves the administration to make it seem like in is a really significant effort on the border to make the changes it wants to make. We have huge backups along the border and we have a lot of issues from medical care to space as you pointed out to, you know, just adequate amenities across the board. But certainly the way that the administration communicates that to the public is going to be done in a way thats to support what you know, the president would like to do. What he wants. You have been working for months on a documentary that will prefer on fx, tomorrow on hulu. Its called the weekly and you have been able to track down and find the youngest child that was separated from their parents. How did you do that and how long did it take . It took me months to find constantine, and i mentioned in the federal court case earlier that had to do with family separations and that prompted ultimately the reunification and i found a 4monthold baby. I thought this is probably the youngest child and i quickly learned that he was. But because all of the individual records in that court case were sealed and because, you know, as we talked about the Government Data was really limited it took a long time to find him basically. Calling everybody in the country to see if anyone had heard of a 4monthold baby who was separated and he is almost 2 now and is still not able to walk r or to walk on his own or to speak. 4 months old when he was separated and you think about the parents and why they decided to come and you think of the government that broke them up. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks, brian. Well be right back. Award winning interface. Award winning design. Award winning engine. The volvo xc90. The most awarded luxury suv of the century. The volvo xc90. If you have a garden you know, weeds are lowdown little scoundrels. Draw the line with roundup. The sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to target weeds precisely and kill them right down to the root. Roundup brand. Trusted for over 40 years. Theyre americas bpursuing lifechanging cures. In a country that fosters innovation here, they find breakthroughs. Like a way to fight cancer by arming a patients own tcells. 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