Weve all been talking about this story. Its the buzzfeed story that came out thursday night that said President Trump directed Michael Cohen to lie to congress. With a clearcut Impeachable Offense being alleged, the story went everywhere within a matter of minutes. But then on friday night Robert Mueller did something incredibly rare. Something his Office Almost never does. His Office Issued a lawyerly response seemingly knocking down the story saying buzzfeeds description description of specific statements to the special counsels office and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office are not accurate. Lets go back to the story. Did the president tell cohen to lie . Whos accurate . Here for their first sitdown interview, Anthony Cormier and editorinchief ben smith. Thank you for having us on. Were happy to talk about this story. Im glad you began with the question of the truth of the allegations because ultimately, this is a media show, were here to talk about process, were happy to talk about that. Just on your air an hour ago Rudy Giuliani gave this classic Rudy Giuliani interview where jake tapper asked him about that central question. Did donald trump talk to Michael Cohen about his testimony. Rudy giulianis answer to that was, so what . And Rudy Giuliani, as you know, through this whole sort of amazing saga has, when news breaks gone on tv to try to get ahead of it. Rudy made real news around the core of this story. As we go to on to talk about process, i do want to make sure we also talk about the fundamental core of this story, about a giant construction project in russia and secret negotiations through the campaign. Which he seems to have confirmed to continue earlier the claim was nobody was talking about a russia project in the final months of the campaign. Now the claim is different. Now rudy is saying, yeah, they were probably talking about it. Anthonys reporting said it went through the summer, which was a big news break at the time. Giuliani seems to have said it went through november. Thats extraordinary. I dont mean to get away from the process but i did want to dwell on that because thats important and the heart of what weve been reporting. Lets get to thursday night and the story that says trump told cohen to live. Do you have any new evidence since thursday night that supports your story . I have further confirmation this is right and stand our ground. Our reportering will be borne to be accurate. Who are your sources . Im not going to talk about my sources. Rudy giuliani signaled there would be a leak investigation. This is an important matter and in order to protect our sources and not put them in any risk, were not going to talk about the sourcing. You wrote on thursday night, we can put it on screen, the lead of your story, the blockbuster lead, that trump directed cohen to lie to congress. Do you have sources beyond the two in the story or just the two sources . Were not going to talk about the sourcing matters it sounds like youve gone back to those two sources since friday and they said the same thing to you again . I cant talk about the timing of when weve spoken to people but, yes, the same sources we used in that story are standing behind it, as are we. The story goes on to say, cohen told the special counsel that after the election the president personally instructed him to lie by claiming negotiations ended months earlier than they did in order to obscure trumps involvement. Youre saying cohen told the special counsel. Thats been a matter of debate. Did cohen really tell the special counsel this information . Thats one of the details mueller seems to be objecting to. You still both stand by that. Were eager to understand which characterizations mueller is talking about there. We take that incredibly seriously. You challenged him on friday night to say whats wrong in the story. We really would like have you heard from the special counsel . We have not. We heard through the Washington Post a bit. We havent heard what where the gap is and where we can continue our reporting to close it. Were interested in the construction of that statement. Jason lee sent a request to understand the coms behind that. We want to know why that was constructed, why the deputy Attorneys Office was involved. Were keen to learn we want clarity from the special counsels office and we want to learn about the construction of that statement. Who was involved, when, how, where, why. You mentioned your coauthor, Jason Leopold to be here. Where is he . Hes out reporting. I dragged one of my reporters who hasnt gotten a lot of sleep into the studio. Jasons past has been scrutinized because he was accused of making up stories 15plus years ago. Do you have any concerns about his credibility permanently . No concerns about his credibility. As soon as this story was published, a real mistake he made and owned 20 years ago. By his own admission, hes had a checkered past. Were talking a long time ago. Slightly more recent in the slightly more recent past, were talking the last 10, 15 years. Hes americas leading expert in the freedom of information act, hes been invited by cnn to train your team on the freedom of information act. He used freedom of information act to get Hillary Clintons emails. He was a pulitzer finalist last year about a series of stories of russian assassinations in the united kingdom. So, i take your point. What youre saying i think theres a lot to argue, a lot to talk about. I think going after the credibility of these reporters and of this organization is not is a mistake. Thats what rnc is doing and rudy said, quote, we they obviously have a hatred of the white house. The white house is very, very eager to take stories they dont like and turn them into battles between the white house and the media, between the white house and us, to divide the media, to avoid talking about the substance of the story. That jake tapper interview was incredible because giuliani came on there to attack us. I dont think he made any news about us, but he certainly raised the intensity of the attacks. Be and jake repeatedly pushed him into, well, wait a second. There were secret negotiations through the summer of 2016 about this giant glass apartment building, 300 million in revenue, the name trump, it would have been the tallest building in europe. This is not some side project. Giuliani twice really broke news. The negotiation went on through the whole campaign. Thats something they were denying. As you know, incredibly heatly all through the highstakes campaign. No matter how low rudys standards are, we have to keep our standards as high as possible. I know you agree with that. Absolutely. How long had this story been in the works, anthony . Months. Weve been reporting on trump moscow for two years ago. But this story with cohen to lie. A long time. We vet and run down every single aspect of this. And on thursday the story started to come to a close. You were ready to publish on thursday. Well, weve been drafting and and editing this for abges. I dont recall but weeks and weeks. This is something weve been working on through a long time. Its been through the normal, rigorous editing problem. Editors . Ult mim ed tors. It could it was ready to go. Lets take a look at what buzzfeed did to request comment from special counsel. This is first email from Jason Leopold, coauthor of the story, sent to the special counsels office at 1 50 p. M. On thursday. It says, anthony and i have a story coming up stated cohen was directed by trump to lie. Assume no comment from you but just wanted to check. Best, jason. To me, this is a shocking casual way to ask for comment for such a serious story. To you think that was an appropriate and sufficient way to ask for comment . Peter told the Washington Post or people close to him on background, if we had asked differently, he would have given us more information. We absolutely that was not we were reaching out to get information. Thats why you reach out. Thats why you reach out hours and hours before the story published. I dont think if you got an email from Jason Leopold saying, hey, were working on a story whose substance is that you were involved in an incredibly highstakes and incredibly shocking thing, that you would say, no, thats not a big deal. I think that we stated the heart of the story there. Again, though when i write people said had the email come in more formal detail he would have responded in more detail . We would have gotten more detail come on, one paragraph . Theres a dereliction of duty to we have broken the biggest stories about the special counsels investigation. We brought a lot of details about Paul Manaforts indictment soon before the indictment came down. We broke the information around the trump tower moscow that would be the heart of the cohen indictment months before. And i think anthony can tell you more about our correspondence with the special counsel about that, but i think that it has not been our experience that the special counsel is forthcoming with information. Lets look at the reply, though. The reply to jasons email two minutes later from the special counsels is why peter carr has the nickname peter no comment carr. When im sending an email to buzzfeed, its a bullet long email, everything thats included. I want to make sure everything has been checked first. Why didnt jason do that . Again, im carr has now said he would have responded in more detail if he had more detail. He could have said that two minutes later. He could have said, thats quite a statement. Tell me more pep said, well decline to comment. That is the correspondence weve had with him over the last two years as we have broken huge stories about his office. Youre putting the onus on him. Im saying no, im saying if we had understood that he would have responded he would have been more willing to give us information had we formatted had we given him we absolutely would have. Let me talk for a moment. Mr. Carr is a lovely spokesperson, we know him, weve dealt with him in the past on a number of occasions. Its never been my experience to get any signal, wave off, any go ahead from the special counsels office through that spokesperson. Its not the first time weve dealt with him. Certainly will probably not be the last. And you should realize hes speaking as one of the reporters. There havent been a lot of breaks out of the special counsels investigation. We have been on the outside breaking these huge stories that have subsequently been confirmed in the black letter of court filings. Thats true. Im concerned in this case there wasnt enough request for comment with the special counsels office. I told you what i think about that. What youre saying is you agree but you dont want to say that. This is a process question. Were getting way into the details of process around a story whose substance is not only extremely high stakes and important but also as we are talking about this, has been moving forward this morning because of what we published. Process question number two, then. Why publish thursday night as opposed to waiting for a third source or fourth source, knowing the stactionz of this story . We published because we were very, very confident in the sourcing of this story. We had been waiting. Its not like anthony walked into my office on thursday noon and said, i have this. Weve been developing on a long period of time, with sources, with a and without getting into the details of sources, with a set of sources who were involved in these huge revelations, where at times we were way ahead sometimes i write stories and say i have a number of sources. I have more than that but i cant reveal. Is that what happened in this case . It would i think you say what you say in the story and you stand by what you say in the story. I would say reporters sometimes describe someone as Senior Administration official and that can be shady and that identity is revealed and you want to say, come on. I want to say the story in this case, these are very narrow, very strong discriminate escrip. I think that is that is so whats going on then . Is there a fight between the special counsels office and Southern District of new york and one set of prosecutors are saying one thing and the were actively figuring that out. Were trying to figure how to parse this statement from the mueller team and figure out whats happening behind the team at doj and special counsel but were trying to get deeper inside the room where this happened. A lot of people look at the special counsels statement and say, he issued a flat denial. Its written in a legal way but theyre challenging the premise of your story. What does that feel like as a reporter . Never great but im solid. My sources are solid. This reporting is accurate. People are saying heads should roll at buzzfeed, youre hurting the News Business as a whole. What do you say . Ive been a reporter for 20 years. My first job was on on the loading dock with panama journal herald. They wouldnt give me a job inside. Ive been doing this again and again and again. The same fundamentals i learned covering city hall, covering the police, covering courthouses. That stands today, right . That is i use those same skills, the same rigor to cover the white house. This is going to be borne out, brian. This story is accurate. What if the sources are just wrong . Theyre not. Not intentionally. Not trying to hurt you but what if theyre wrong . Theyre not. Theyre not. Im confident. And i think this is obviously the highest stakes. There is no source like Robert Mueller. There arent other government officials who say, when this is wrong and were going to say how and why, this would produce the sort of reaction youre bringing here. Its its a very weird situation. Its a very highstakes version of a sorry were all familiar with. You say, how is it wrong . They wont tell you. A all you can do is continue to report why not raise the bar further. Because the stakes are so high, raise the standards higher. Our standards were extremely high. Youre saying its not about youre saying its not about quantity of sources its about quality, am i perceiving that correctly . Its also true that we, and particularly with the president s lawyer on television demanding a leak investigation. What about getting documents . There are a lot of limits around what we can say. I respect that. We have some in the story, we said some things on television. We stand by all of it. I think what weve discussed this morning in the context of the president s lawyer calling for a leak investigation, were being extremely careful. He also said you should be sued. Are you concerned about legal challenges . Were obviously prepared to defend ourselves and the story in every form. Youve been doing that for the last two years after publishing the dossier. Let me ask you about documents like the dossier. Anthony you said on cnn friday you have not seen the documents you describe in the story. Jason leopold said, we have seen the documents. Can you explain that to us . We cant get into the details. At this point because of the calls for a leak investigation and the sort of sensitivity around that matter, we cant go any further at all in order not to jeopardize our sources. We make a commitment to them. This is out in the culture now, ben. Look what snl said about you last night. Look, buzzfeed, i think its great. We all think its great that you want to help, but this isnt really what we need from you. Yall are buzzfeed. You do memes and lists. Buzzfeeds reputation on the line. How do you react . Thats a wonderful job. Its a joke theyve been making for seven years. Its dated because buzzfeed has its a joke we love and embrace. Buzzfeed includes a very, very wide range of media, including very silly entertainment. And i think unquestionably very, very serious journalism. Weve gotten people out of jail in chicago. Weve changed the way Sexual Assault is prosecuted in the United States and weve had a series of revelations about about the investigation of the of Donald Trumps relationship of russia from the same two reporters who published this. And youve been breaking news about it. If this story turns out to be wrong, do you feel your job on the line . I think were very confident in this reporting i worry about buzzfeeds brand as a whole. If this story is wrong, buzzfeed as a whole is in trouble. I appreciate your concern. But are you concerned forget about me. Arent you concerned about that . You know, were confident in the story and we are and i think he we also do think while there is right now and notabl a understandably a focus on the media story, the important story is about the relationship between the Trump Administration and russia. I agree with you. So lets talk about what you think happened here. Our reporting was central to that and forget the cameras are on. Its hard. It is hard. What really happened, is it that trump said to cohen, take care of me, dont screw me . Is it mob talk . It wasnt directing him to lie. It was, dont skroou screw this up, michael. Do you have thats what im wondering. But you guys tell me, is that what happened . We dont know. Were trying to get the exact language that was used. Well get there one day. We continue to report like mad, as we always do, but what we reported, the president of the United States directed Michael Cohen to lie to congress is accurate. That fundamentally accurate. Were going to get inside the room where it happened and bare it out. Weve taken this to ground. Here well go further to get inside that room. Are you fed up, ben, that the Mueller Investigation is taking this long and we dont have answers to these questions . No, i understand mueller. I understand the amount of stress and pressure they are under. We are certainly not trying to write the mueller report. Were not trying to project inside his head, inside his offices head. Were writing about the evidence and what our sources have told us about the evidence. But i think, you know, we its difficult, i think, in this media environment. I say this as somebody who came up in this environment and very much a part of it, to say we dont know everything. We know what we know, we know what we know is accurate. The words you were talking about before, what he might have said. What he might have said. There is a transcript. You dont have it and i dont have it. Every reporter in the country is chasing it right for you. Were confident our reporting is going to bare out but i understand youre on television 24 hours a day, on the internet 24 hours a day, its hard to say, wait for muellers report, wait for more reporting. Thats obviously what were all doing. Anything im leaving out . Anything i havent asked you. Thats the best reporter question. No, i really appreciate you having us on. Were here to talk about our work. Im glad to do it. Its been two years. Weve broken some of the biggest parts of this story. Again, id like to go back to the fundamental part of it. During the heat of a president ial campaign, a candidate said he had no business dealings with russia. Later turns out he did. His attorney goes to congress saying these negotiations ended in january. We were the first to report that, no, that happened in june. This morning Rudy Giuliani is making even more news. Hes saying, maybe it wasnt june, its november. The core of the story is the president of the United States has a business deal that he and the people around him wanted to keep quiet from the american public. Thats thats where were reporting and were going to keep going. For viewers there the United States, that interview is going to reair in 40 minutes. You can watch it here on cnn. I greatly appreciate both of you being here and being transparent. I think it helps viewers understand how these stories happen. We really appreciate the opportunity to come on. Come back soon. Thank you very much. Quick break here. Well chew over all of it, talk about what it means and about how the rest of the News Networks in america ran with the story as soon as it was published. Carl bernstein is standing by to react. Much more straight ahead. Im a fighter. Always have been. When i found out i had agerelated macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. My doctor and i came up with a plan. It includes preservision. Only Preservision Areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the National Eye Institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. Thats why i fight. Because its my vision. Preservision. Also, in a greattasting chewable. Woman 1 this. Woman 2 . This. Man 1 . This is my body of proof. Man 2 proof of less joint pain. Woman 3 . And clearer skin. Man 3 proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis. 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I justis this for real . Match, yep. We match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. Whoo i got my money hard to contain yourself, isnt it . Uh huh let it go whoo get a dollarfordollar match at the end of your first year. Only from discover. And i dont add trup the years. S. But what i do count on. Is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. Boost® high protein. Be up for life. Were back now on reliable sources. Were talking about buzzfeeds story which could be a smoking gun if its true. But those two words, if true, theyre two of the most dangerous words in journalism. A lot of reporters have been through what those buzzfeed reporters and editors are going through now. A story comes out. It could have profound consequences, but it could be wrong, according to a key spokesman. Think back to watergate. Think about the time this happened during watergate and lets talk about it with a man who was there, living it, carl bernstein, the legendary journalist is joining me now to sort through all of this. I was hoping you could react first to this buzzfeed controversy. Youve been in this situation before. I think its going to take time before we fully understand what the exact truth is here in terms of the facts relating to mr. Cohen and whether or not the president directed him to lie. And the facts regarding the attribution in the story that buzzfeed ran in which they attribute part of it not just to sources but to documents the special prosecutor has, et cetera, et cetera. We dont know where we are with this story right now. And its going to shake out perhaps and i hope in cohens testimony coming up on the 6th, 7th, 8th of february. When the story came out on buzzfeed. Com, virtually every news outlet in the country ran with it. Cnn ran with it, msnbc, even fox news a little bit. All of us, including you, kept saying, be cautious, be careful. Did we all make a mistake by running with buzzfeeds story . No, i think we had to report it and attribute it to buzzfeed. As i said on our air, we dont know whether or not this story is accurate, contextual, true and it needs to be run down. But buzzfeed, indeed, has been at the front of this part of the story. I think you also need to look at what the pattern has been in terms of the reporting of the russia story by all of the press. That is is that it is the press that has been accurate throughout this. Hundreds of thousands of stories by the ap, by the Washington Post, by cnn, by reuters, by all the major news organizations, the wall street journal, that have turned out to be true and the president has been telling one truth after another in regard to russia. His conduct has been the issue here. Not the conduct of the press, which he would like it to be. The record of the press in reporting the russia story is actually pretty spectacular. When there have been mistakes made trumps allies point to the mistakes. They point to big mistakes that happen at cnn and elsewhere. Are you saying were not batting a thousand but batting pretty close . What im saying is the reporting on the russia story and the Trump Presidency has been excellent, by and large. Yes, reporters make mistakes. News organizations make mistakes. In watergate we made a mistake, a very serious mistake in terms of how the press and the Washington Post, bob woodward and myself were. Er receiperceived for a few day because we reported the chief of staff had directed the payment of hundreds of thousands of dollars to the watergate burglars and other undercover activities against the opposition. Democrats, according to grand jury testimony. Well, it turned out the grand jury testimony did not exist because the prosecutors didnt have the grand jury ask about it. We surmised from something a source had said that the grand jury had. It took us two days to figure out what the mistake was. We were right. The chief of staff controlled that fund and in the watergate report of the special prosecutor and in the hearings it was established that he directed 350,000 just as we had said to be spent and it was apparent within two days that we were right. It may not be apparent within two days who was right, what the exact context is. Well have to wait to find out. Its clear that from the mueller statement that some part of what buzzfeed wrote the prosecutor believes is in error. Is it the substance of cohen saying he was directed by the president to lie on is it about how the special prosecutor came to know such a thing happened. Well have to wait. I keep saying the same thing. We dont know know. What we do know, though, is donald trump has been claiming from the beginning that hes the victim of a witch hunt by mueller. Hes been attacking mueller day in and day out. He can no longer say with any credibility that this is a witch hunt because the special prosecutor has taken this opportunity to say, i want to be clear on the facts and in my view, my view as special prosecutor, there is some error here that needs to be clarified or corrected by my office. And knowing this will be something that will stop some of the talk on the hill about impeachment, et cetera, et cetera, as well as play to the president s favor. So that witch hunt aspect is pretty much out the window about mueller at this point. Can i ask you one more question before you have to go . A lot of critics reacted to the buzzfeed story, there it is, the smoekking gun. Is that the wrong way to look at that . I think one of the unfortunate legacies of watergate is there had to be a smoking gun to establish Richard Nixon was a criminal president because it had already been established by many of the tapes, by john deans testimony, by a preponderance of absolutely certifiable, circumstantial evidence that was moun totainou. He was successful in establishing this standard, unless you have a smoking gun, i should not be removed from office. Well, it turned out that on the tapes there was a smoking gun that confirmed what john dean had said. So, we were left with that legacy. I think that in what what were dealing with with donald trump, you have a similar situation. We have a president of the United States and we need to wait for the mueller report. It is absolutely essential that we all take a deep breath and wait for the mueller report. In the meantime, from available sources, including filings by mueller and the Southern District of new york, we have established, the press has established that the president of the United States, his family members, people closest to him in the campaign have lied at every turn in almost everything having to do with russia, including largely on this trump Tower Business when, in fact, the president of the United States said no such thing was happening at the time and its his family members who said long ago, we get a tremendous amount of money from our business in russia while donald trump was saying, no, we dont get any money from russia and russia. The issue here goes back to the truthfulness of the president of the United States. Which is we have learned untruthful and so one of the problems we have in the press, i hear myself sort of jumping backwards when i say that out loud on television. Im not used to saying out loud the president of the United States lies serially over and over. Its difficult to say but they have to tell the truth. But yet its truth. One of the things that has gotten lost in this story, the same reporters and news organizations, including cnn, including the Washington Post, the new york times, including me, including bob woodward, including all these reporters that trump attacks, he loved us during the primaries when we were reporting on Hillary Clintons emails. We could do no wrong. So this idea of fake news, were reporting real news. And donald trump knows that. He does. He knows it, he just has to lie but it is a but the question at issue is we have a president of the United States who lies, and this is historically demonstrably, factual, a president of the United States who lies serially, routinely, compulsively such has never happened in our modern history of the presidency. Thats a problem. Its a problem getting worse. Ask what happens to the president of the United States. On that point, carl, thank you so much, being here, putting it in context. I want to turn to one of americas best known journalists on that same subject. The atlantic magazine is leaving no doubt where they stand on the Trump Presidency. It seems impeach in big, bold letters. They stress it is time for action in order to bring the debate about trumps fitness for office to congress. Jeffrey goldberg is joining me now. I wanted to ask you about buzzfeed, but why did you release this cover several weeks before you were planning on releasing it . We released it earlier last week. It seemed as if the news was demanding that we release this. The new democratic congress, people talking about impeachment already. The shutdown, unprecedented, as so many things about this presidency are. The real active debate, this is what moved me the most, the real life debate about whether the president of the United States is a winning or unwilling russian depate. Its like were living on earth two or something. With all of these things going on, the pieces are carefully constructed piece by the historian of american institutions, knows his stuff and i thought the argument in this for beginning an impeachment process was very strong. I figured since it was finished, people should see it sooner rather than later. The buzzfeed report, it made impeachment talk even louder on friday. Obviously your story was written before then, it was out before then. What do you think are the consequences of this buzzfeed dispute about how accurate the story was and whether it was wrong . How do you think that plays . I dont know. Nothing lasts longterm. Everything is so frenetic. Buzzfeed has a proven record of getting these stories right. Lets not miss some important underlying facts here. One of the underlying truths of this is if you ask me, does ben smith, the editor of buzzfeed, have a deeper commitment to truth than donald trump, i would say, ben smith, obviously. Right. I think part part of this is you have two different systems at work here. You have a system on the trump side that doesnt take issues of truth and lying seriously and you have another system in the Mainstream Media when we get things wrong, we try to figure out why we got it wrong, we excavate these things, we talk about it in public, we have shows like yours to talk about these things. And so i would attach myself to the comments of carl bernstein. In the long run it is the press that has been accurate about the unique qualities of this presidency. Also there is a record of buzzfeed getting these things right. On the particular of the stories i dont want to comment because we dont know about the sourcing, i dont understand enough about the construction of the story. These are incredible reporters, though, and i think its important to say that. Back to your impeach cover, the march issue, you alsos wrote ought big new feature called unthinkable because today is the twoyear anniversary of the Trump Presidency. You had 50 writers write about the unthink about about stories and scandals. Whats your favorite . Or your least favorite. Whats your pick . The story we made number one let me be careful to point this out. We tried to make this nonpartisan in the following sense. We only picked incidents in the first two years we couldnt imagine a republican or democratic president would have done in office, things they would not have done in office. Number one on our list is the family separation policy and the more baroque aspects of the family separation policy. And then there is the number two, the charlottesville, the reaction to charolettesville and neonazia mar march. Its a great exercise. Everything goes by so fast these days that you forget whats been said, whats been tweeted, whats been denied, whats been done. And so we have it ranges from mow m youre focused on the big stuff. Do you think the small stuff matters, too . Trump misspelling hamburgers, trump tweeting hes flying to nashville, not new orleans, trump suggesting theres a border wall in san antonio. I worry about that but is that too small to concern you . No. A, as an editor, i care about spelling. Let me make that clear. I believe in grammar. And, no, i dont think so because they all add up. Each one signifies something deeper about commitment to truth and principles and norms that have governed the way president s may have. We make number 50, the magic orb with the i did forget about that. Just for the sheer weirdness of it. No, these tweets in which he behaves as no other president would behave, i do think they add up to something. The list is 50 but thats because you run out of time. The list could have been 300. Its remarkable the amount of improbable things that have happened in the first two years of his presidency. Happy twoyear anniversary. Quick break here and then to the shutdown. I want you to meet a White House Reporter whos not getting paid because of the shutdown. Thats coming up right after this. Nasty nightime heartburn . Try alkaseltzer pm gummies. The only fast, powerful heartburn relief, plus melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly. Oh, what a relief it is bipolar i disorder can make you feel like you have no limits. But mania, such as unusual changes in your mood, activity or energy levels, can leave you on. Shaky ground. Help take control by asking your Healthcare Provider about vraylar. Vraylar treats acute mania of bipolar i disorder. Vraylar significantly reduces overall manic symptoms, and was proven in adults with mixed episodes who have both mania and depression. 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What . an unexpected ending hey, batter, batter, is [ crowd cheers ]ere. Like everyone, i lead a busy life. But i know the importance of having time to do what you love. At comcast we know our customers time is valuable. Thats why we have 2hour appointment windows, including nights and weekends. So you can do more of what you love. My name is tito, and im a techhouse manager at comcast. Were working to make things simple, easy and awesome. Were back now on reliable sources. A lot more to get to since the government has been shut down for 30 days and counting. Lets bring in Baltimore Sun media critic and voice of americas White House Bureau chief steve berman. You were at the white house covering the president s story. But youre working unpaid. Many white house staffers are have been furloughed or working unpaid because youre funded by the american government. I have to ask you what its like as a reporter to be affected by the shutdown. I know youre not speaking for anybody else at voa but what is it like to be a victim of the shutdown while covering the shutdown . Its a bit unusual to cover a topic that so personally affects you but just like any other topic i would be covering, you but that aside, you go ahead, do your job and its not affecting the way i do my job actually except for the days that im furloughed. Other days im unpaid at the white house, swapping out with one of my colleagues. Is this the first time that youve kind of personally experienced or lived through a story and felt the effects . Most certainty to this degree. But i was at the federal credit union the other day where im a member and the banker there is shes had grown men in that seat where i was sitting crying. Im a little more fortunate than, perhaps, many other of the hundreds of thousands of federal workers affected. I know journalists dont want to make the story about themselves. None of you at voa have mentioned youre furloughed. It hasnt come up once. Let me turn to the shutdown more brideth bro broadly. Do you think President Trump will have some sort of speech . Today he tweeted and said nancy pelosi, ill have more for you soon. Right. I wasnt quite sure how to interpret that tweet, as is often the case with the president s tweets. Im sure this will play out as some protracted drama, as is the case with the president. The state of the union speech was postponed for a week under reagan after the challenger disaster. Im sure he wants to see how much he thinks were in a state of chaos or disaster or giving this speech it would appear he has some part of government under control. I think the white house will be looking at this strictly from an optics that he would want to appear that hes caving to pelosi and the democrats in any way. But the shutdown is extremely unpopular as you know. Cnn had a great piece yesterday summing up six recent polls from various credible polling institutions across the board its unpopular. And across the board the president is blamed for it. So he may try and use this speech as an opportunity to try and rewrite the narrative. We only have a minute left, unfortunately, but i want to ask you about the caravan the sequel. Because fox news is talking about a brand new caravan, again raising fears of immigration. Your reaction . Change the narrative. Its change the narrative time. They started that after Rudy Giulianis interview with chris cuomo, the incredible mess he made of what he was trying to say in that, and they were on their heels. And then came the buzzfeed story. They were on their heels. Its a way for them not to have to report the stories everyone else is reporting that are negative about the president and have a different story to tell. Its shameless the way they whipped this story and they play to fear and loathing about immigrants to this country. But thats exactly what was going on, and you can look at the timing and see it. You mean as soon as the news got even worse for trump fox pivoted. Exactly. Thats the well. Thats where they go to. Same place trump does. It is effective in the shortterm. I think in the longterm it does their viewers a disservice. I want to take a quick break here and then tell you about a really important program. Its like ameri corp for journalism. Well have that right after this. Tion. With big flavors, not artificial ones. Enjoy 100 clean soup today. Panera. Food as it should be. toots but you know its you. So know this. The activated charcoal in charco caps adsorbs gas for fast gas relief without passing the gas. Charco caps put less boom in the room. You might or joints. Hing witfor your heart. Gas. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in Clinical Trials to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. And i dont add trup the years. S. But what i do count on. Is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. Boost® high protein. Be up for life. In the United States we have teach for america, amerry corp, the peace corp, and now theres also report for america. It is stepping in to help with the crisis of local news. Where ad revenue is being lost philanthropy, nonprofits, foundations are filling in some of the gaps. Charles simmons and steve walden are the cofounders of report for america. Now theyre trying to scaleup to 60 and in a few years they want to get up to 1,000. We begin in aplatcha, in West Virginia and eastern kentucky, so two news papers. And thats exactly what we want to do, be in these places where people havent felt heard. And its not just the elite media on the coast that hasnt heard them, in some cases its the lexington herald. And were seeing that, were seeing even within states that are in the middle of the country are not part of those postal elites, those communities themselves are not listening to themselves either. And theres a need to sort of think about local journalism as a binding agent for our communities or as will wright has done excellent work on water. So the access to clean water is a huge issue in appalachia and kentucky. And a month later the person whos in charge of the Water District gets forced out and a month after that the state legislator mysteriously finds 5 million to help fix the problem. Whats constructive to us about that is this was not a six month long investigative project. This was a second week on the job. He showed up at the commissioners well, to give him a little more credit than that, he showed up, went to peoples houses and had them turn on. And asked for the glass of water and the water was dirty. Exactly. Really good local reporting, but it was not a yearlong investigative project. And it unfortunately it shows these gaps are so severe that if you put even a young reporter in an area you can really have a big impact. The Business Model of the area is essentially philanthropy. Look, theres a new era of journalism where nonprofit is playing a bigger and bigger rule. Should journalists be skeptical of that, more importantly should the public be skeptical . I think we should be as skeptical as we are as big corporations who have given corporate advertising. And we need to be attentive in the way corporate comes in through advertising. Similarly with the foundations. The difference i think with the foundations is we have really good standards how to create these walls. Like pbs does this very, very well and they are very caring about how they do it. What about the facebook money and the google money, too . Google last year announced 300 million over three years for journalism. This week facebook announced 300 million a year for journalism. Some of us look at this and say theyre just throwing crumbs at newsrooms because theyve done so much damage to the news industry. Theyve sucked up advertising revenue and now theyre just throwing crumbs. Whats your reaction to that . I think the idea theyve hurt the landscape of journalism in our country is true. Right, they werent trying to hurt. It was inadvertent, but i think when they offer an opportunity to find new ways to create new models of journalism, i dont think we should rule that out. You can always recognize you did a lot to damage it, and we hope theyll do a lot more. I agree with you, they can do more and we think they will do more and we want to be part of that. If you want to be a part of this program log on at report for america. Org. The deadline to apply is coming up on february 8th. Ill see you right back here this time next week. Speaking out. In a rare statement, special counsel Robert Muellers office disputes an allegation about President Trump. I appreciate the special counsel coming out. But there remain many questions to be answered. Well discuss the latest details with President Trumps attorney Rudy Giuliani, next. Plus, all in. New contenders in the 2020 democratic field laying out their goals for the next election. Not only flip the senate, hold the house and defeat trump. A lot of challenges facing the