health plans, not so much. that is until catholic leaders and some commentators began sounding off. >> catholics and christians all across america are fired up over president obama's approval of new regulations that require insurance plans of religious organizations to provide contraseptive coverage. >> why did it take news outlets a couple of weeks to catch up with the catholic protests? a former white house intern for president kennedy says she was his mistress 50 years ago. >> did he realize that you were a virgin? >> i think he did because he kept asking me if i was all right and i was all right. >> but she confirmed the affair nine years ago. was her book really worth an nbc primetime interview? plus are we'll look at the coverage of the sad and unexpected death of whitney houston. i'm howard kurtz, and this is "reliable sources." >> we're going to begin with the tragic death at the age of 48 of singer whitney houston, and joining us on the line from los angeles is cnn's larry king, and, larry, my question is very simple and very straight forward. what is it about her death, why is this such a big story, the coverage began practically wall to wall last night on "cable news networks?" >> well, it was disturbing. one, she's probably the best singer we have, ranking with streisand and judy garland. there were very few of these. she ranked right at the top. two, she's a victim of blaming her ex-husband, bobbi brown. she's a fantastic looking person. a terrific actress who made a wonderful movie with kevin costner. who sang songs that will live forever. she changed music. there was no one like her. at the party last night clive davis's annual grammy party, tony bennett came out and did an incredible tribute to her and sang a song. i think she was worth all the accolades, and then, of course, the tragedy of any person dying at age 48. >> that's the other part of the story, of course, larry, is that the fact that her life became a kind of train wreck, doesn't that, sadly, hasn't that added to the media and public fascination with whitney houston? >> absolutely. when i was there at that party last night, when i walked the red carpet, that's all people were asking about. the tragedy. what do you think she died of? how can such a great performer fall to such things like this? in fact, there's a picture i'm looking at today of her taken a couple of days ago where she looks really disshovelled. when i saur her last year at this same party she looked terrific. the ups and downs of her life, i think, are the absolute grab at media. that's why you're leading off with it. >> we got a chance to talk to you, in part. we'll have more on the whitney houston tragedy later in the program. thanks to larry king. turning now to a story that kind of dominated the news here in washington. it wasn't exactly big news on january 20th when the obama administration turned down a request from the catholic church that catholic colleges, hospitals, and charities -- the washington post put it on page one, but the "new york times" carried the news on page 17. the l.a. times carried a few paragraphs on page 7. the network newscast didn't touch it 25u89 at all, and then silence. about ten days later as catholic leaders and some republicans, a handful of cable news shows began paying a bit more attention. >> roman catholic bishop said the obama administration is telling the church to "to hell with you." >> the obama administration has found itself in a fight it would like to avoid with the catholic church. >> catholic church leaders are outraged by a new rule by the obama administration. we're going to show you what all the uproar is about. >> it wasn't until this week that the controversy really reverb rated across the media landscape. >> i'm going to say, it is a staggering, staggering decision by hhs. >> as today a fiery debate took center stage about women, contraception, and a white house order that has the catholic church up in arms. >> why did it take the mainstream media to recognize the full magnitude of this story? joining us here in washington, lauren ashburn, president of ashburn media and a former managing editor of "usa today" and gwinnett broadcasting. >> and george, a former cnn washington bureau chief. lauren ashburn, this has created, to use that word we keep hearing, a form storm. how did the media -- >> i think i disagree about the media misjudging this story. the catholic church has just kept its mouth shut when it comes to controversial issues. look at the way that they handled the pedophilia scandal. actually, i think that, in part, has allowed the catholic church, the media has brought the catholic church hierarchy, dragged it kicking and screaming, into the 21st century media world. milwaukeeing them come out in front and then bringing the hierarchy, bringing the actual people on camera. if you take a look recently at "morning joe," for example, and joe and his co-host, brought up -- brought in cardinal donald whirl of the archdiocese of washington. they brought him on for 12 minutes, and had a very high-minded discussion about this issue. hannity on fox had a one-hour special on faith yesterday morning on msnbc they brought on father bill daley, right, out of notre dame, and he talked about this in a very self-deprecating way. again, it was driving the controversy. >> komen foundation 24 hours after it hit social networks. it erupted with this. why wait for catholic leaders to speak out saying this is a pretty sensitive hot button controversy. >> i think what happened here is you started with policy and it became politics, and politics is always easier and more fiery. policy is narrower. it's sort of down in the weeds, and the fact of the matter is this policy is -- if you are a catholic charity or catholic church, what's the difference? it's the insurance policy that's accessible. are we making -- >> too complicated for the media? >> not too complicated, but too ar contain. at the point that it goes on to become part of the campaign, and you have candidates saying the obama administration has declared war on religion. it fits a larger narrative. at the point that as you were saying as you have leaders of the catholic church, one of whom was on cbs this morning a couple of days ago, for a long period of time, very out there, very combative, quotable and this then it gains a different kind of traction. >> i have to give props to use a term, to the media for not attacking members of the catholic church. >> why would they deserve an award for not attacking members of the catholic church? is there an expectation that we would attack the church? >> we have in the past. look at the pedophilia scandal. the arguments were so divisive in the conversations were so polluted and i really -- >> over the -- of the contraception thing? >> about fed peela earlier. >> i don't see tension here at all. >> i do. >> pedophilia is a grow tefk crime. >> it was torment the by the media. it came out against something that it believed in. >> to come back to your point about catholic leaders, the new york archbishop, timothy dole anned wrote the crime is about five days after the announcement. even that didn't kick start this kind of coverage, and i have to say you talk about giving props, two liberal commentator says, chris matthews at the top, and e.j. from the washington post columnist were outraged. they happen to be catholic. >> outraged by? >> by the obama policy criticized their side, so to speak. >> it merited an earlier and deeper examination. there's no question about it. as i say, i think this is where we see issues in the media. there is this lag time. if you have a turbo, you know we call a turbo lag, and you don't go right away. when a story starts as a policy story -- to be honest, the catholic church and dole anned by himself should be enough to warrant a deeper look. when you start going into -- when turbo lag is done and you go into hyper drive and you have the candidates and others, that's when you get the media pile-on. that's when you get the multiplier effect. that's what happened here. >> the talking points for the catholic church, howie, always were saying this is not about contraception. this is about religious freedom. religious freedom. religious freedom. religious freedom. they kept saying it over and over and over again. i think that is the reason that the media actually began to pick up on it. it didn't just become a catholic issue. >> if there was a tin ear here initially, is it related to the fact that most journalists are not particularly religious, whether they're catholic or not? >> no. >> you're saying because it wasn't a political flap. you're saying -- >> i'm saying -- you know, i can't speak for how many -- i have no idea how many are religious or aren't or aing nostic or catholic or jewish, and so i think that your question is -- >> religion generally -- >> there's also -- >> religion generally doesn't give that much coverage. >> that's not true. >> there's a lot of irony and contradiction in this thing. so we know where the catholic church stands on contraception, it's been long held, but 98% of women, catholic women, what -- >> doesn't matter. >> of course, it matters. >> no, it doesn't matter. >> because there has been -- within media circles and elsewhere, there has been a certain discount factor, i believe, because there is such a disconnect on this issue. it doesn't mean it's not legitimate and shouldn't be looked at, but this does not in any way rise to the pedophilia example that -- >> and -- >> i'm not saying pedophilia and contraception are equal. let's be clear. i'm talking about stories as how the catholic church is portrayed. >> stories worthy of attention and trying to explain this. they're not. >> since there is more than one catholic position here as evidenced by that 98% figure and a poll of catholics found that 58% actually support the obama policy. there is another side which is proilg providing no cost access to birth control, to lower income women. did the media then swing too far in the other direction? 28 states have similar laws. >> i think you could argue, and you could attack the media for not looking. if you are going to talk about holding authority to account wherever that will authority may be, there is a giant story within the catholic church over their attitudes towards these issues, and their diswecht with their followers. that's part of this too. >> i think i disagree. i think that, yes, you call people cafeteria catholics, and, yes, in the media we are hearing that 98% of women use birth control. i mean, that was one of the stories, but does that mean that because of that that they are not catholics and they're not concerned about religious freedom? >> lauren, that's not the issue. the issue is the media's role and the media's responsibility in all this. if the catholic church is, in effect, declaring war on the obama administration over the availability of contraception for people who work for institutions that are not merely the catholic church, but institutions supported by this religion, and saying this is war on religion, and if there is a scism, there is a divide within the catholic community, why is that not part of the story? >> within more question. i took some heat for saying that i thought that the media approached the whole komen foundation controversy, cutting up planned parenthood, from a liberal perspective. they didn't need any prodding. there was no two-week delay. what is the difference between the reaction there and the nonreaction or delayed reaction or muted reaction, however you want to characterize it, on this story? >> i -- you know, i think that part of the media has this, as we have discussed, many times on this show, howie, this add. you know, we're going to focus on jobs, jobs, jobs. we're going to focus on the maine primary. republican primaries. now, okay, oh, my gosh, this catholic issue is kind of dwegt some traction here. we better jump on it. >> i would say the komen story is different because that was propelled by citizen journalists. people give money to komen. they were following it. they were the ones who exploded and were outraged by it. can we discuss the disagreements within the catholic community about contraception and the availability of it? there wasn't much of a difference of opinion with komen, or at least there didn't appear to be, and the social media -- >> we could go on out. have i to get a break. more later on this program on the death of whitney houston. when we come back, cnn contributor roland martin suspended over a couple of controversial messages. are networks responsible for what their commentators say off the air? while some fiber ads use super models, metamucil uses super hard working psyllium fiber, which gels to remove unsexy waste and reduce cholesterol. taking psyllium fiber won't make you a model but you should feel a little more super. metamucil. down with cholesterol. >> roland martin was having a good time on twitter during the super bowl, but some of the cnn comment ate o's messages were until questionable taste. if a dude at your super bowl party is hyped about david beckham's h & m underwear ad smack the is out of him? who was in a nund patriot that was shown in a pink suit? he needs a visit from team wlip that ass. gay organizations called the remarks homophobic. he denied that, but he later apologized saying to those who construed my comment as being anti-gay or homophobic or advancing violence, i'm truly sorry. i can certainly understand how someone could come to a dirch conclusion than the one i meant. i'm disheartened that my words would embolden prejudice. after initially declining to respond to press, cnn suspended roland martin on wednesday for an unspecified length of time. networks saying in a statement roland martin's tweets were regrettable and offensive. language that demeans and is inconsistent with the values andcle tour of our organization and is not tolerated. should cnn have suspended him over those words? >> tough question. yeah, probably, because it has its own positioning that it needs to do with a larger community. it's not quite firing him, and it's not quite saying everything is just fine. we nabbed. it gives everybody a chance to step back and gives roland a chance to apologize and gives him a chance to meet with glad and other organizations and gives everybodying a chance to realize, you know what, tweets matter. >> they do matter, but my initial reaction is these were a couple of jokes, bad jokes, to be sure. cnn didn't say anything for two and a half days, but then what happened is the gay, ones racheted up the pressure. >> i think that he responded appropriately. it is a right. it is not a right. it is a privilege, not a right, to sit on television and to give your views and to talk to viewers and as soon as you crossed that line, i think it is appropriate for a suspension, and maybe they didn't even go far enough. maybe he should be assigned to do stories about the gay community instead of -- >> journalistic community service. >> that's right. that's right. >> why does cnn or any network feel responsible for something that somebody writes, and he is a contributor. he is not a full-time -- something somebody writes on twitter. >> this is -- >> it's all about your -- >> mainstream news organizations actually still have a role in the world. they stand for something. they have standards. they say this is how we expect you to behave. they say this is how we're going to hold you to account. you do have a job and a privilege as a public person and we want you to convey a certain tone and tenor because that's what we're about as an organization. >> let's talk about -- >> that's why juan williams isn't working at npr. >> let's talk about eric aircraftson. you remember in 2010 he was brought on to cnn as a contributor. he sat right here and talked to you, howie, and said i'm going to grow up, and he is going to stop that invective and that hate speech as executive editor of the conservative website. he did. you said i will hold you accountable bsh i'm going to check in on this, and i think that is the standard. i think you cannot come on television. you cannot tweet if you are on television things that are that hyper -- >> it's very important for the public to understand because many do not that news organizations, cnn, npr, the washington post, they have statements, ethics policies, things that are laid out for their employees. >> what the standard is is not entirely clear. you hire commentators to be opinionated. you like the fact that they're -- take a more recent example. another cnn contributor dana loche. should she be espned for saying that she would have urinated on the dead taliban army. she didn't say it on the air. she said it on a radio show, i believe. >> i'm not going to talk about whether she should or shouldn't have been suspended. it's a cnn policy. cnn gets to make those decisions that it's their news organization. however, i think the point needs to be made that if you are a public figure and you are tweeting things that the public could misconstrue as offensive, then it doesn't help the brand of cnn. it doesn't help the brand of fox for you to be on their program. >> as long as the news organization says that ahead of time, you can't make up the rules as you go along. >> look. i'm told that dana loche hasn't been on the air for some time, but you have ring sanchez, who was a talk show host here, and he called john stewart a bigot, and he joked about jews running the media. he got fired. octavia, a long-time cnn foreign affairs specialist, she got fired after tweeting after the death of an ayatollah, one of hezbollah's giants i respect a lot. he died with that terrorist group. there's a line you can't cross, but it's not clear to me where the line is. >> tweeting is really -- >> it's -- frankly because it's not a bright line. all right? and this is going to be taken into consideration, you hope, fairly by the executives as they go. if roland mashtin were to do this on the air, i bet he would be fired. >> wait. let me just make one point about tweeting. you have to do it. you have to be pithy, informative, smart, and funny all in a very short amount of time. everybody wants followers. you must have, what, 87,000 or something followers. twitter followers. the point -- the way that you get those followers is by tweeting all the time. not only that, but you are under this pressure to tweet and tweet and tweet. >> right. that's the danger, and you just have to be careful, and you have to be mindful, and you also need to know that there are consequences. those tweets, as clever as you're going to be, at some level you're going to be held accountable in the public statements. >> it's not just twitter. pat buchanan has not been on msnbc for months. he wrote a book about race and immigration that said some things that shouldn't be part of the national conversation. one thing we've agree odd here is if you have a role on air and it is a privilege to be on the air, anything you say in any other forum could be used against you because it's not a right. you have to leave it there. >> shouldn't be a surprise. words matter, right? >> no matter where and how they're said. >> coming up in the second part of ""reliable sources" "whitney houston, how she went from a media sweetheart to a tragic figure, and the guy the press was all but ignoring, rick santorum, has a triple triumph in the campaign. why were the pundits so ready to crown romney the winner? and mimi alford, why did nbc give that story an hour of primetime? ♪ [ door creaking ] [ dog whimpers ] ♪ ♪ get up offa that thing ♪ and dance till you feel better ♪ ♪ get up offa that thing ♪ and dance till you -- sing it now ♪ [ dog barks ] [ deep beetle exhaust, dog barks ] ♪ you feel good [ male announcer ] back. and better than ever. the all-new beetle. 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[ male announcer ] tempur-pedic brand owners are more satisfied than owners of any traditional mattress brand. ♪ to learn more or find an authorized retailer near you, visit tempurpedic.com. tempur-pedic. the most highly recommended bed in america. the coverage of whitney houston's death exploded last night, especially on cable, wall to wall. from what i have seen on the air this morning, it is very much continuing at an intense pace. joining us now to talk about this from tampa, florida, eric, media and television critic for the tampa bay tribune, and in new york media commentator rachel, former senior ed store at mediaite. given the magnitude here of how this is treated at least on the air waefdz is the whitney houston story worth that kind of coverage? >> i don't think there is any doubt. also, i got to point out my newspaper is "the tampa bay times." >> so many years. >> as a lot of people -- yeah. we changed our name from "the st. petersburg times" in january. whitney houston formed a temp plat that every diva we've seen in the last 20 years has followed. you talk about mary j. blije or mariah carey, you talk about right on down to adelle, every one of these singers has taken something from a template that whitney houston pioneered. she was an incredibly influential singer where the way her life ended an addiction and erratic behavior and inconsistent performances, that has let a lot of younger people to miss the fact that she was such an amazing singer and such an amazing talent when her career started and through the 1990s. >> on that point, rach e rachel, and i don't want to be intensely saddened. she was a huge musical star, you know, more than a decade ago, two decades ago, and in the last decade she's really been the star of a soap opera, the soap opera of the problems in her life. isn't that true? >> you can't sing the lyrics to "greatest love of all" and i think you want to probably dance with somebody who loves you. her songs are not just songs from the 1980s and the songs from the 1990s. they are karaoke standards. they are sonksz that just form the soundtrack of the larger patchwork. even though she may have come on scene in the 1980s and cemented in the 1990s, you know, there's generations of people who grew up with that, and keep in mind that when the interesting things about whitney houston and her career is that when she emerged, she emergeed in a narrow media landscape. there was radio. there was mtv video play. it wasn't the sort of 24-7 media landscape we have now. she was a very sort of tightly controlled, highly packaged pop princess, and i will say one of the very few african-american cross-overs at that time. through -- now that through the ark of her career has sort of matched the ark of media so as she became -- as she became more apparent that she was troubled, that also mirrored the time when suddenly there was reality tv. suddenly there are blogs. it was emphasized and magnified. >> on my point of the way in which she's covered in the last ten years, you know, mostly for self-inflicted reasons, let's look at a sitdown she had with diane sawyer. this was back in 2002. >> is it alcohol? is it marijuana? is it cocaine? is it pills? >> it has been at times -- >> all? >> at times. >> if you had to name the devil for you, the biggest devil among them? >> that would be me. >> so eric, putting aside her undeniable musical legacy, how should she be covered and remembered now that the downward spiral of her life is undoubtedly part of the story, is it not? >> oh, undoubtedly. we've all had to cover these great art uss who towards the end of their career may have wound up trapped an addiction or wound up trapped in a declining career. elvis certainly ended that way. i agree with rachel that -- >> michael jackson whose death was -- >> a guy named michael jackson. >> exactly. >> i agree with rachel in this idea that when whitney houston first started, her public image, i think, was very different than her private life, and she started at a time when we didn't have very many press outlets that were very interested in probing the difference between those two things. as we got closer to the media reality we have now, we have more and more avenues where that comes out. then she does a reality show in 2005 where the dysfunctionality of her marriage to bobbi brown and, you know, her erratic behavior is put before the world, and all of a sudden we have all these media outlets and web outlets ready to jump on that and explore the difference between the pop princess that we love and the life she seemed to be living in private and so, of course, that became a major part of her story. >> rachel, it's hard to avert our eyes from what was a slow motion train wreck, but at the same time i hear you saying we shouldn't lose sight of whitney houston's musical legacy? >> you were the one who pointed out that she had a really long career. i think it's important. you know, you look at how she came in and what she evolved into and then her fall, which is sort of almost a characterure of the kind of fall from grace that, you know, that you see in all these musical figures. i think what's interesting about whitney houston and her reality show that you say is a train wreck, that was beyond a train wreck. you really couldn't look away. in that interview clip that you showed, i mean, you didn't actually show this, but she immortalized the phrase crack is whack. that's -- >> she used crack. i have to go. thank you for coming in. we still, of course, don't know the exact circumstances oofr the cause of whitney houston's death. up next back to politics. rick santorum stuns the pundits with his victory this week. why were reporters so quick to write off any gop candidate not named romney? our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪ >> the love the lead of the "new york times" story, the morning after rick santorum stunned the world by winning two caucuses and a primary. his candidacy dismissed just days ago. dismissed by whom? maybe just maybe it was the journalist and pundits who covered the campaign. >> he wonder why santorum will stay in this race? if he can't win this coming tuesday in nearby colorado, what's he doing in this race except spoiling it for your candidate newt gingrich? >> it's increasingly impossible that rick santorum can win the nomination. yes, i can see mitt romney -- it's hard to see these other guys winning. >> unless some miracle happens and rick santorum manages to win colorado next week, you know, there's going to be tremendous pressure on him to get out because he is nott going to have any money left. >> well, holy cow. i guess miracles do happen. did the press, again, write off santorum too soon? joining us now lynn sweet, washington bureau chief, the "chicago sun-times". jim garretty, columnist for national review, and bill press, radio talk show host and author of the new book "the obama hate machine." wasn't that a blunder? >> it was because they weren't -- it was because reporters at this level are paid to be better predictors than they were. i would say, yeah, everyone who said he had no chance. however, the financial disparity between the campaigns is so vast, howie, there is good reason to wonder if he is in for the long haul. december 3 1st, he had about $300,000 cash on hand compared to romney. i think it overestimates the importance of money because under funded candidates, mike huckabee come out of nowhere. when santorum did win minnesota, colorado, and -- they didn't even put that story on the front page, i suspect because the decision of made earlier in the evening before these primaries before it was clear. of course, the next day they came back with major shake-up in the race. >> suddenly the miracle of santorum. i think there were a couple of reasons. first of all, i fwrae with lynn. we all under reported rick santorum. >> you plead guilty as well? >> i plead guilty as well. i think a couple of reasons. number one, he is a pretty prikley guy and surly. he is not as much fun as herman cain or michelle bachmann. >> he is serious and sober-minded. >> if you -- >> did he yell at you? did he hurt your feelings? >> he can be prikley. he is not as much fun to be around. we're all going by an old playbook, which is the playbook we grew up with that if you have money, name recognition, and organization, you win. that was proven not true in south carolina, and it was proven not true this tuesday. >> i want to come to that. you and i were both at the conservative conference cpac this week in washington there as well. santorum was surrounded like a rock star. he walked in, and he was in the hallway, and there was 150 people. talk about a fickle media. >> well, look, i don't know if it's the fickle media. it is the electorate. this race has been the most volatile we've seen. by the time summer comes, this may look different. santorum won iowa. on iowa caucus night we thought he had won or had come close, and then he didn't do that much in new hampshire or in south carolina. nor in -- >> you say it was a rationale response by the press to basically say he is going nowhere fast? >> the press pays attention to the top two people. >> why is that? >> okay. i'm not saying it's the way it should be. it's what happened. >> i want to point out that in the four primary states, there's a ton of attention by the local papers, which i mean read more than the "new york times" and washington post, to get their everyday coverage. they do get through on that level. >> we make this mistake again and again. you talk about covering the way it was when we grew up and covering the top two. mccain was written off a couple of times in 2008. newt gingrich was written off. he had two surges. is he written off now? maybe he'll come back. i don't know. santorum before iowa. how many times do we have to be smack in the head before we learn the lesson? >> yeah. i do think in this day and age of the new media and the importance of the debates, this is a debate driven primary, we all have to reassess the way we cover campaigns and candidates. if you look at rick santorum, he didn't get much time, but he used it well. he scored points, and he was probably the most effective debater going after romney and ron paul and newt gingrich. >> it's also maybe kind of a delayed effect to these debates. in other words, remember florida had very early voting. a lot of people had already cast their votes by the time that thursday night debate. if it takes a certain amount of time for these people to have process and people to watch maybe clip on youtube and talk to their friends, et cetera, there's a cascade effect that takes place a couple of days later so in a way the good performance in florida may have kicked in in colorado and minnesota. >> is it my mablg nation or has the press looked clueless in year in covering this campaign? >> the yes is yes. >> you say it's my imagination? >> we all agree. you were explaining away by saying trump was up and cain was up and perry was down, and santorum came back. one of the things we were supposed to do is not reach a premature conclusion where we say when 5% of the delegates have been selected, mitt romney has this wrapped up. >> i agree, and the volatility of this race has been demonstrated to everyone frankly months ago, and the ability of this race to change. now, having said that, i think it's okay to say in the end who do you think? people can predict that. i don't think it's cast in stone, and i think reporters sometimes are -- maybe i'm speaking to the people who have since we agreed, we should not be so involved in the end product as it's okay to cover the stories as it unfolds. >> i just want to say that i haven't learned anything. i still don't think santorum will be the nominee. >> you might be right, or you might be wrong. he certainly has a better shot than five days ago, and the question i want to turn to now is whether as a winner of these three states and iowa whether santorum will be getting more scrutiny from journalistic organizations. pretty aggressive interview this morning earlier today on "meet the press." here's david gregory asking this question to the former pennsylvania senator. >> i want to stay on some of the social issues that have come, i think, to define your campaign. >> my campaign isn't defined by social issues. i understand the media wants to focus that on those issues. >> okay. jim gar. does santorum have a point? do journalists try too much to define him only as a social conservative? >> i remember watching the -- my first exposure was at the nra convention in pittsburgh last year, and this is a group of gun owners. their primary concern is the second amendment, fast and furious story that just broke. he gave a story that was heavily on social conservative issues, which some gun owners agree with a great dial. he is getting better at being a full spectrum conservative and talking about all the issues. for much of this process, as he focused in iowa and was in all 99 counties and making his pitch to that demographics, that was his bread and burt. >> is that going to be getting a lot more media attention now? >> he may deny it, but rick santorum, if you go back over his past record and the issues that he has been out in front on for homo sexuality, home schooling, contraception, these are the social issues, and he brings them back to the fore. i mean, i think republicans want to focus and should be focussing on the economy and jobs, but he is the social conservative. he is the pat buchanan of this primary. >> in fairness, lynn sweet, santorum also talks about manufacturing jobs and how unlike romney when romney made that gaff, he talks about the poor. is there a danger the press will paint him as a one dimensional candidate? >> yes, and the reason that santorum talks to his strength is that's where he connects. i heard his stump speech. he has the most to say on it. i think if he had more of a record to talk about on business, not just what he would do if president, but pat would help. you talk to your strong points. zoo all have a lot to say, and i think i'm going to be watching very -- with great fascination of how the coverage evolve from here and how he had been sidelined and marginalized. lynn sweet, thank you for joining us this morning. her affair with jack kennedy, and was nbc sit down with mimi alford more about history or ratings? don't just moisturize. improve the health of your skin with aveeno daily moisturizing lotion. the natural oatmeal formula goes beyond 24-hour moisture. it's clinically proven to improve your skin's health in one day, with significant improvement in 2 weeks. for healthy, beautiful skin that lasts. i found a moisturizer for life. [ female announcer ] daily moisturizing lotion. and for healthy hair every day, try new pure renewal hair care, with balancing seaweed extract. only from aveeno. and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us. the story of j.f.k. and the intern is shocking and also old. not just that the alleged events took place half a century ago. mimi alford, woman who says she had an affair with the former president, came out in 2003. she's come out with her own book, when landed her an nba rock center this week in a report by meredith vieira. >> and then what did happen was i lost my virginity right there. then i think i went a little bit into shock. not into painful shock, but just into utter surprise. >> you are doing your homework in the car knowing that you are being sent to washington to have sex with the president essentially. >> i think that's probably partly what makes me feel sad. fwloo so does alford's account of what happened to her in the early 1960s deserve this kind of media attention? joining us now amy, co-author of the reliable source column at "the washington post." rock center usually does several stories. she got the whole hour. given she got the whole hour. what makes this news? >> in 2003, mimi alford acknowledged that a sexual relationship had happened, that's it. >> we didn't have the salacious details. >> we didn't have the salacious details. and i have to say, beyond the salaciousness, there is also a quality about the nature of this relationship. when we first heard about this, we thought, what's new here? is it true but also what's new? there have been so many stories of kennedy affairs over the years. this one really struck a chord even beyond our expectations. >> on the is it true part, how do we know she's telling the truth or not embellishing it? >> in her favor, you have the fact that she did not talk about this for years until robert dallek's book and subsequent reporting i think by one of the new york papers determined that she's the woman, she acknowledged it. this is not a person coming forward with the story. you did have the oral histories from 1964 where it was public knowledge within the white house staff that this 19-year-old was carrying on with the president. so when you've got that kind of historical record, that's what gave this all a grounding. >> so some of the details, if true, really made kennedy look like a pig, especially the part about having her to have sex with his aide, dave powers. and of course she was 19 before monica lewinsky was born. can this story be defended, can the nbc interview be defended on the grounds that it's revealing presidential character in >> you know, i would argue that this is -- it's something that changes the picture of kennedy. even for all of the knowledge that he was not a faithful husband, that there were a lot of affairs, when you have something like this, a teenage intern who was almost coercively seduced on her fourth day on the job, this is something that would be a career killer at any point in history for a politician. >> yeah, imagine if it had come out at the time, although i guess there's a question about given the press would have reported it if it could even be confirmed. but you said almost coercively seduced. look, the gap in power between the leader of the free world and a 19-year-old intern who just started there. but she certainly doesn't -- alford certainly doesn't describe it as a case of coercion. she doesn't say she was talked into it, pushed, pressured. in fact, she seemed to enjoy to some degree reliving some of the excitement of that era. >> yeah. but when you read the book and when you see the interviews, you have the sense of a woman who is still trying to process what happened to her at a relatively young age who hasn't really made sense of it all yet and who's kind of grappling with this and who seems to be a little messed up by this whole experience. this was her first sexual experience. she kept it a secret from everyone. she says yes, she sort of enjoyed it, but she also says it wasn't exactly consensual. they filled her up with daiquiris and, you know, took her away from everyone else. it was a very creepy setting and it sounds like she was clearly in over her head. >> at the same time, does nbc give this an hour because it can do a good number in the ratings and, you know, let's not lose sight of the fact that even though she was reluctant and even though it's 50 years later she's selling a book? >> exactly. i mean, it's a compelling story. it's a fascinating story. people will be looking at it because of what it does for the historic record. but people are also interested in it for the prurience of it all. it was not a good ratings for nbc. i mean, what's new? of course, these interview shows -- sure. >> you seem to have -- with less than a minute we have left -- you seem to have turned around a little bit. your initial report, i thought, was on the skeptical side. and now you sound a lot more sympathetic. so as you learned the details, have you changed your view of this story? >> when you read the book, it really does -- it does -- it's very eye-opening and also the reaction we've gotten from read readers. the reaction i've gotten from people who are genuinely shocked by this. and you wouldn't think we could be shocked by anything of a sexual nature to come out of the kennedy administration anymore, but people were excited about this, especially when you see how young she was. there are pictures of ha she looked like when she was 19. she was really -- i mean, she was right out of high school. >> jfk remains an icon. amy, thanks for stopping by to talk about it. still to come, "the new york post" retaliates after an unsubstantiated rape charge against an anchor at the same company. look, every day we're using more and more energy. the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to the planet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this. it's a smart way to go. ♪ since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪ two weeks ago on this program, i expressed concern about all the media attention surrounding a somewhat shaky claim of rape against anchor greg kelly of fox's new york station. undoubtedly boosted by the fact that he's the son of city police commissioner, ray kelly. well, prosecutors have now decided not to bring charges based on the fact that kelly and the woman in question exchanged steamy text messages after their sexual encounter. kelly who was unnecessarily dragged through the mud had this to say after returning from a leave of absence to "good day new york." >> folks, thank you. it was a tough couple of weeks, obviously. for a lot of people. and i'm very, very grateful for all the support i had here at fox 5, the support from my family, friends, those i care about. >> i'm sure it was a tough couple of weeks. but "the new york post" owned by fox's parent company published pictures of her more than once. i understand that if the woman is not deemed to be a rape victim, she's not entitled to anonymity. but it feels like the tabloid was punishing her for filing a complaint against a company employee and lots of people online agreed with comments like, "shame on the "the new york post." that's it for this edition of "reliable sources." i'm howard kurtz. join us next sunday morning 11:00 a.m. eastern. we'll have more on the death of whitney houston on "state of the union." and let me also take a minute to say you can follow our program on facebook where a lot of people are hanging out these days. you can follow me onit