character assassination. >> is the press helping to put sharon bialek on trial? should a rupert murdoch production have outed a second victim against her will? there have been a deluge of women with similar complaints. we'll turn to the sickening child abuse tragedy at penn state that forced out legendary coach joe paterno. >> i'm out of it maybe now. a phone call put me ahead of it. but we'll go from there, okay? good luck, everybody. >> why did many journalists put this 84-year-old man on a ped school? do the media -- pedestal? >> do the media apply different standards to college football? we'll ask our guests, including jack mccollum. he i'm howard kurtz, and this is "reliable sources." for all the media coverage of the accusations swirling around herman cain, it was not clear just precisely what he was alleged to have done. that is until sharon bialex stepped forward this week. she went before the cameras to accuse the presidential candidate not just of harassment but of pushing his hand under her skirt and pushing her head toward his crotch. this allegedly in a parked car 14 years ago when she was looking for a job. and bialek as much as cain quickly found herself under media scrutiny. >> i was very, very surprised and very shocked. i said, "what are you doing? you know i have a boyfriend. this isn't what i came here for." mr. cain said, "you want a job, right?" >> saying flat out you're a liar. >> i'm not a liar, and everyone that knows me knows i speak the truth. and that's why i came here, because i wouldn't do something i didn't feel so strongly about. i was not paid to come forward, nor was i promised any employment. >> you have filed for bankruptcy twice. is your coming forward a part of any financial motivation? >> absolutely not. there were no skeletons in my closet. i told her that this may come up. and i expected this. this is what happens. it's not about me. i'm not the one running for president. >> cain called her account bogus and false in a news conference, but he also made charges he couldn't back up. >> you made self references to the machine, the democratic machine. who is involved in this, is it a conspiracy? >> i cannot -- i cannot say that it is a conspiracy. we do not is definitive, factual proof. >> and when cnbc's maria bartiromo raised the issue at a republican debate this week, the crowd had an instant reaction. >> in recent days, we have learned that four different women have accused you of inappropriate behavior. here we're focusing on character and on judgment. [ booing ] >> you've been a ceo -- >> yes -- >> so have the media adequately challenged cain's denials, and are they putting his accusers on trial? joining us, clarence page, columnist for the charles gibson. lauren ashburn, former managing editor of the "huffington post." and jack mccollum, from "the daily caller." you heard saying character assassination. do many quote them in time to move on? >> the media would like to move on, i suppose, but we didn't create this story. we're covering it. the public has questions to -- that they want to have answered. but what's been interesting this week, though, is that these other stories have come along. joe paterno's story. the story about rick perry's flubbed -- >> which we'll get to. >> and b, i think herman cain got a break in that sense. but he's still out there campaigning. >> and i thought he got a break from bartiromo who didn't fall up when he said character assassination. excuse me, character assassination? didn't they settle -- lauren ashburn, has the harsh media scrutiny shifted toward the women who said that herman cain acted, to say the least, inappropriately? >> most definitely, howie. this is character assassination. and this happens to women all the time who come forward and say, hey, look. this behavior is inappropriate. and as soon as that happens, the men go right for those women and say, okay, well, your job performance isn't great. you've got bankruptcy issues. you've got -- you know, you were dressing provocatively. that's my favorite one. oh, well, you deserve it because you were dressed provocatively. >> i do get the sense that journalists are backing off, not because other stories have come to the fore, but cain blamed the media and stayed high in the polls. you heard the boos at the debate. what's your debate? >> i think ultimately the problem for the metedia is that there is no stained blue dress. we do know that a decade ago, that these two, you know, accusations were made and that settlements were made. that's all we know. we don't have proof or evidence. >> are you kidding me? i'm sorry. no proof or evidence? i mean, these women are coming forward. it's their word. and all of these issues, it always becomes a he said/she said. >> right. >> so basically right now what you're saying is you're taking the advantage -- you're taking the he said point of view. >> no, i'm saying that if someone is accused that they're innocent until proven guilty and you're assuming that cain is guilty, i'm assuming that i don't know he's guilty. >> i'm not assuming he's guilty. i'm saying we need to take these women seriously. >> i would agree. >> you seem to be setting a high standard since often there is only circumstantial evidence. there are four women and two -- if there's no semen it can't be proven? >> what i'm saying, and this isn't my opinion of what ought previously, this is based on what will the public believe. and the court of public opinion. and i'm of the opinion that if there were no stained blue dress, bill clinton would not have been impeached. likewise, i think herman cain was definitely damaged by these accusations. but i don't know that they're deadly to his political future unless there is some sort of proof because anybody can accuse -- you could be accused, i could be accused. >> my gosh. i can't believe i'm hearing it. >> let's not treat this like a criminal case. herman cain is not on trial, he hasn't been indicted. he is running for president. when you're running for president, you're looking for the public's approval. he is losing points with people. sure, folks are ravenous herman cain fans saying, yeah, attack the media. but herman cain has not handled this well. >> i agree. >> you agree, you see, there's questions coming up about herman cain's -- >> he's flubbed the politics. >> you -- i want to get off cain and come back to the media question. another development in which karen krousher, one of the women who filed the complaint in the '90s when she worked at the national restaurant association which cain headed, and wanted to remain anonymous was outed by the rupert murdoch ipad magazine "the daily." and other organizations followed suit. did that bother you? >> it's disgusting. >> it bothers me to out anybody against their will. you have to raise real questions about that. but perhaps there's a certain inevitability to it. her identity is known now, and i think she's handling it well. that's the way the stories move. >> all the reporting i've done, women want to remain anonymous. they don't want their future careers to be on the line. i had even somebody who went on the record with me say, no, wait a minute, i can't do this because i don't want someone to think i'm a troublemaker. you know, if you raise these allegations and so -- for the media to come out and say, okay, i'm going to name you when you've asked to be anonymous i think is reprehensible. >> she did give a statement to the new york types once her name of leaked. this is a woman who works at the treasury department. i was troubled by the fact "the daily" decided she didn't care who it thought. they were going to put her name out there. and the -- let's look at the footage of herman cain's chief of staff, mark block, talking on fox news about this very subject. >> karen kroushour, h come out as one of the women and we find her son works at "politico." the organization that put the story up -- >> can you confirm that? i've been hearing rumors. you've confirm that would, right? >> we've confirmed it -- that he does work at "political coo." that's his mother. >> absolutely false. no relation. this is an environment this which lots of stuff gets thrown around. >> mark block is guilty of political malpractice. i think herman -- i'm not alone, i think that herman cain ought to give serious consideration as to whether or not he should stay on as his chief of staff. and by the way -- >> and how did he challenge him, how did he -- >> to his credit. not only did mark block go on national television and made this accusation which is totally false, they also accused rick perry, his campaign, of being the leak to politico." they later sort of walked it back. that was devastating to herman cain because up until that point conservatives were rallying to his defense, now he's attacking another republican and muddied the waters. >> what's upsetting is that i think there are two sides and we allow the two sides to say whatever they want on television without saying ahead of time, look, if you're going to name this person, you better back it up. >> and here's one more -- and commentator, of cour -- comment course, happy to fuel the fire. and here's msnbc. >> we're going to see how open the gop is to this -- their new black friend when they find out that he's harassing blonde women as opposed to black women. that sort of thing of black sexuality, predatory black sexuality. very frightening in this country still. very threatening. so we'll see how that plays out. >> the media coverage change when we found out that two of the womener white? >> it didn't -- women were white? >> it didn'ttosh everybody's credit -- i was disappointed. there's an excellent book on the issue of post black, post racial america. then he hops over to the racial thing. like the barber shop. yeah, in black barber shop, they'll talk about that. he's in trouble now -- >> a woman is a woman is a woman is a woman is a woman, i'm sorry. >> but in the real world if a woman is blonde or not blonde, attractive or not attractive, does it affect the way people talk and report on the story? >> well, it shouldn't. >> you're saying it shouldn't. but does it? >> i think maybe yes. but in this instance i agree with clarence. i don't believe it did. i think that the women who get it the most, who get attacked the most, are the ones who people say, oh, she's really good-looking or dresses provocatively, or you can see part of her bosom, or she has blonde hair and it's hanging in her face. and it's because of the way that they look that people come after them. >> we'll talk more about sexual harassment later in the program. i want to turn to one other issue before break. john dickerson, cbs news political director. he wrote an e-mail before the cbs presidential debate about michele bachmann. whether she was going to come on a web show. he wrote -- i think we've got that, we can put it up on the screen. okay, let's keep it loose, though, since she's not going to get many questions and she's nearly off the charts, in the hopes that maybe we can get someone else. bachmann said this was an example of media bias. her campaign manager called dickerson a piece of excrement who should be fired. i think he was recognizing that michele bachmann is not exactly the top of the polls. what's your take, matt lewis? >> i agree, it's an unfortunate -- that e-mail that was supposed to be internal -- >> reply all, oh, no. >> look, let's be honest. i mean, we -- it is a facof life. i think that these debates, you can question the debate format, are these helpful. but all the networks know that if you're not polling well, if you're not seen as relevant, you're going to get less questions. >> as it turns out, congresswoman bam bachmann got almost as many questions. and rick perry does interviews as he tries to forget about -- forget about that thing he did in the debate. ♪ it was the best day [ whooping ] ♪ it was the best day ♪ it was the best day ♪ ♪ it was the best day ♪ 'cause of you we make a great pair. huh? progressive and the great outdoors! we make a great pair. right, totally. that's what i was thinking. all kinds of vehicles, all kinds of savings. multi-policy discounts from progressive. call or click today. and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us. but when they come home, they don't want a parade; they want a job. the postal service employs more veterans than any other civilian employer. but congress is debating a bill that would force the postal service to fire tens of thousands of vets, close post offices, shut mail processing plants, and disrupt mail delivery. drastic cuts won't fix the postal service and aren't needed. tell your representative to vote "no" on house resolution 2309. it's time to deliver for our veterans -- and america. yeah, i toog nyguil bud i'm stild stubbed up. 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[ deep breath ] thank you! that's the cold truth! columnist george will made an announcement that leaked out, that his wife, mary, is going to work for the rick perry campaign. now, will has been ripping the romney campaign and calling rick -- romney the pretzel candidate. christiane amanpour didn't ask, does this cast any doubt, create a perception problem, on will as a commentator if his wife is working for one of the candidates in the campaign he's writing about. >> i think he's a commentator, and a lot of people would make a difference, howie. not everybody, but a lot of people would say he's a commentator. we know where he stands on this. however, i think that it's very important in the media that there is transparency. we demand that was other people. we demand that was our government, the freedom of information act and the sunshine law. >> he did talk about it on the air. >> right. but would he have if "politico" hadn't written the story that said, by the way, his wife is working there. and fred hyatt now, to the credit, has said -- eadtor of the "washington post" -- said we're going to put this on every biline of his. >> the editor of the "washington post." rick perry got lots of airtime. let's take a brief look at his comedy stylings. >> the third agency of government, i would -- i would do away with the education, the commerce -- and -- the third, i can't. i can't, i'm sorry. oops. >> boy, no one wants pity from an opponent, but you did look like you were in pain. what were you thinking? >> with all due respect, what were you thinking last night, governor? >> i think i made a -- a -- an error last night. i stepped in it is what my wife would have said. and she was correct. >> i'm not going to ask you, matt lewis, whether this was overplayed. this is the worst brain freeze i've ever seen in a presidential debate. would this have been treated as big a story if mitt romney couldn't think -- the stereotype of perry not become the sharpest knife in the drawer -- >> absolutely. the worst scandals, flubs, are when they reinforce a narrative people already suspect about you. i think it was overplayed. twitter, all the journalist i follow were declaring it over for rick perry. >> the final nail in the coffin. >> the reports of his death are greatly exaggerated. he handled it well with the self-deprecating humor. it's not over. >> that's what i was going to can you. by doing the top ten list on letterman, "could he be turning this into a positive? >> it could. it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in this case because perry is still so new to the national public that it's unfortunate for him if they constantly associate him with moments of humor. so whereas some folks like a bill clinton or a barack obama may be able to spin things around by going on "letterman," i don't know if it will play out the same way for perry. >> but why aren't we talking about what he is saying? that he wants to eliminate three agencies? >> you say the media should focus more on substance than on account the fact that he couldn't get -- >> come on. >> get rid of five agencies. >> come on, let's talk about that. >> all right. maybe next week. matt lewis and clarence page, thanks for joining us. up next, lauren ashburn on what happened when she decided to speak out about sexual harassment. wait a minute. what? just like that? did you even see the allstate? it's cute. what is it? great insurance. you get accident forgiveness, deductible rewards, safe-driving bonus checks, plus a free lifetime membership in good hands roadside assistance just for calling. sold. tiny tow truck -- works every time. shop less. get more. make one call to an allstate agent. the furor over herman cain has sparked a personal date with women speaking out about incidents they've never discussed in public. one of them is lauren ashburn. how much did you wrestle with when to go public about being harassed in your own career? >> oh, i wrestled with it back and forth. when i saw the way that she was being handled ukrain, herman ca accuser was handled, i by-law may top. how -- i blew my top. how can you attack her credibility? this happens to women all the time, but i'm not going to name who, i'm going to be anonymous about what happened and when it happened. >> you wrote explicitly what happened. you wrote about being in a new york taxi with a business client. what happened there? >> he reached over and grabbed my knee and said, boy, if we were alone, we'd have a lot of fun. >> and what did your boss once say to you about his boss? >> his boss said, hey, you have a nice rack, this boss of mine says -- >> you -- >> he's telling me this, that his boss said to him, hay, that lauren ashburn -- hey, that lauren ashburn, has a nice rack. he's telling me while looking at my breasts. it makes you feel like a piece of meat and makes you feel like, okay, why am i in this job? and what's going to happen if i say something? what happens if i go to -- who am i going to go to? if i go to h.r. and say, hey, this guy looked at me funny and made this comment, are they going to brush it under the rug as has happened to so many women? do you want to be labeled as a troublemaker? you know, what are they going to give you? a couple thousand dollars. how are you going to find another job? >> so you felt at the time and you feel now because you didn't name names, that blowing the whistle, pointing the finger, would come back to haunt you? >> howie, i don't say it's the right thing to do. i'm not proud that i kept my mouth shut. i'm a very vocal person. and i'm not saying that women shouldn't do it. and i applaud women who do it. >> lots of women do complain. and sometimes they get a fair settlement. >> if they get a fair settlement, that's right. women came out of the woodwork, sending me emails about how they were asked to sleep with their bosses, and tried to manage it and didn't. and ultimately found another job. and one woman said that, you know, she came in to an editorial meeting, and somebody made a very lewd comment about where she could sit. and, you know, it goes on and on and on. >> i was wondering how you were going to handle that. >> i didn't read the article -- >> okay. but -- when you wrote about this for my web site, "the daily beast," the web site exploded. did you is the impression that women wanted to tell someone? some of these incidents must have happened ten, 20 years ago -- >> yes, and some are recent. even my mother had a story. i won't get into it because it involves underwear and my mother. but people want to tell their story as long as it's anonymous. i spoke to a woman who actually did say something. >> meaning show spoke on the record? >> she spoke on the record. she did say something to her boss after she was sexually harassed several times -- >> a woman at a university, i presume some years earlier. and you write about this. she said there was a guy there who was giving her a lot of unwanted attention. patted her upper thigh, robbed his crotch on her shoulder, snapped her bra strap. and then she came forward. what happened? >> she came forward, she went to the dean. and the dean said, how would he know where your bra strap is? at that point, she thought, who's going to believe me if this guy doesn't believe me? she even had a witness. she left. she quit, as many women do. she quit, and from that moment on in her life, always worked for female-oriented companies. >> you're not saying that every complaint is valid. and obviously we don't -- you are saying that women who come forward, and you've wrestled with this yourself, pay a very high price. and i wonder if the coverage really reflects that. >> what do you mean if the coverage reflects that -- >> well, i mean, for example, you know, some of the people who are minimizing, talking about -- >> i see -- >> mary matalin was on the air talking about there's a grievance industry now for feminists who are easily offended. let me play -- >> no -- >> let me play, talking on fox the other day about shiner bialek, the woman -- sharon bialex, the woman who accused crane. >> in "playboy" -- >> do you think that this is really about money? >> sure, it is. she's been unemployed for 13 years. she's been sued a million times. of course it's about money. >> you know, that's what women fear the most is the character assassination. that all of a sudden you say something, and the camera and the lens turns on to you. you as a person. you -- how you've lived your life and what kind of money you want. and why are you doing this, and is it a political gain, is it note right? and -- and is it worth it? in many women's instances, in cases, it's just not worth it. you don't. to be defined. you don't want to live your life based on the fact that you confronted a harasser. >> are you glad you spoke out about these personal instances? you have mixed feelings? >> i have mixed feelings, right? who knows what could happen? these men know who they are. who knows? >> so -- even years later or in some cases more recently, there could be repercussions. >> of course, and many women say that. many women, the woman who went on the record with me who asked not to be name sudden worried that she'll be seen as a troublemaker. and i think most women feel that way. but we need to drive the national conversation on this. it's a very gray area. and things need to be changed. >> well, you've done your part here this morning. lauren ashburn, thank you very much for stopping by. and coming up in the second part of "reliable sources," the child abuse tragedy that has tainted penn state and its legendary football coach. why did so many journalist revere joe paterno? plus, "sports illustrated's" jack mccollum on his mea culpa for what he wrote about the assistant former coach now accused of rape. and later, how did nbc get that interview with the doctor convicted of giving a fatal drug to michael jackson? the postal service is critical to our economy-- delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service, and want to lay off over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains 5 billion a year from post-office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. congress created this problem, and congress can fix it. for me to be perfectly honest because the details are so sickening. news outlet are describing what happened at penn state as a scandal, yes, but it goes so much deeper than that. former assistant football coach jerry sandusky charged with child rape. a graduate student, an eyewitness who saw a 10-year-old boy being violated, never went to police. he did tell coach joe paterno who also did not tell police. sdask had little to say -- sandusky had little to say when a local reporter went to his home. >> can you tell us if you are h any inappropriate relations with young boys, sir? >> you didn't hear what i said. i said i've been ad vasesed by my attorney, i -- advised by my attorney, i am following orders. and i am not privy to making any statement. >> the uproar has led to the firing of university president graham spanier. but most of the media attention is falling on the man who coached the penn state team for 45 years. >> good evening. it's not the way you'd expect a football legend to leave. >> college football's most legendary active coach, penn state's joe paterno, may be on his way out tonight in the rake of revelations about a child sex abuse scandal involving one of his assistant coaches at penn state. >> what a hairy night at penn state. a little after 10:00 p.m., the trustees come out with a dramatic announcement. coach joe paterno, the university president fired for their role in the child abuse scandal there. >> as we see there, word of paterno's dismissal sparked a riot at the pennsylvania campus. much of the angry directed at the media as students overturned a split truck and threw bottles and rocks at reporters for photographers. joining us to examine the coverage of the penn state tragedy and what i would call the coddling of college sports, here in washington, christine brennan, sports columnist for "usa today," and a sports commentator for abc news. and in philadelphia, buzz billinger, contributing editor for "vanity fair." buzz billinger, you wrote about this for "the daily beast," the 10-year-old boy in the shower. you used very graphic language. why? >> well, because, you know, the grand jury report, where a lot of this information comes from, is very clinical. i understand that. but i feel the terms that they use, uni, oral sex, anal intercourse, don't get across the alleged brutality of what mr. sandusky did. and i felt that let's call it for what it is because this was nothing less than child rape. molestation doesn't cut it in terms of what he was alleged to have done and was seen to have done in a shower by a graduate assistant coach. it was not a kid. he was 28 years old. and i felt -- and i thought about it hard, it was not gratuitous, the public needed to know what we're talking about. >> does -- are the media kind of glossing over the sexual details, christine? because it makes everybody uncomfortable? >> it does make everybody uncomfortable. but buzz is absolutely right. i used the word "rape" as soon as i was able to read the grand jury report which was saturday, early afternoon -- early evening. and i am surprised that more people haven't used that term. that is what it is. plain and simple. and i think -- i think if we're not using those terms, howie, then i think -- it allows people to back off a little and kind of go into that nice cocoon of loving joe pa and loving sports, clearly that was blown out of the water, you know, by monday or tuesday, most places. but still, you wonder about how we look at this through prism of sports. >> and speaking of loving joe paterno, buzz, you wrote a column two months ago saying that paterno was too old and weak and selfish and needed to resign. >> yes, he was. >> but the media just loved this guy. >> well, a lot of the media love this guy. certainly the older reporters love this guy. some of the younger reporters saw him get crankier and crankier. when asked any real question about football, which really doesn't matter at this point, was generally nonresponsive. he was an endangerment to himself. he kept getting hurt by opposing players or his own players colliding into him. he was up in the press box. he's getting increasingly frail. it was hubris and arrogant like anybody in power, jay edgar hove hoover, and he is dictating the terms of retirement. he wasn't a very good football coach. by the way, that's all he was the end was a football coach. the most significant firing which nobody talks about is graham spanier. the president. >> i was it to ask about that, christine. this is a guy who ran the university. and you know, almost an afterthought. some of the coverage has focused on jerry sandusky. but if you look at the headlines and leads in the network newscasts, it's paterno. >> if it's a sports story, paterno is the lead. whoever would have thought we'd hear the words penn state fires joe paterno. of course, he absolutely should have been fired. i wrote before he was fired that he should have been fired. and i want to let the trustees worry about other things. that was so self-serving and disgusting. i can't believe that there wasn't p.r. help. than we worry about that side of it. but the apowelling nature of how penn state handled this. going back to graham spanner in, of course, the boss of joe paterno, who also was informed of course of something. he -- he's saying he didn't hear about the word rape. in the grand jury testimony. but the fact that he -- howie, he read the 23 pages of the grand jury report and goes and calls the allegations, the charges groundless, and unconditionally stands by the athletic director curley and the vice president shultz. that's just unbelievable to me that -- it shows the group think, and it shows how pervasive college football is. that spanier could also think that this is just fine and call it groundless. >> the media, of course, protect child victims in these cases, as well we should. but one thing that made it very real was when the mother of one of these victims spoke on abc to george stephanopoulos with her voice disguised. you don't see it here. i want to play a little bit of that. >> how would you and your son like to see this end? what would you like to see happen? >> i want justice. i want him -- i want him to be locked up. there's no help for somebody that does this. >> and this reminds us, buzz, that families are devastated by what went on. and the university turning a blind eye for so many years. >> well, i mean, families are devastated. it is why i used the graphic language, to get across what was done to the victims. you're exactly right. christine is right. i mean, sandusky, first of all, i don't know how he got out on $100,000 bail. i have no idea how that happened. i think that was parts of a good old boys network of penn state. he has been sort of shunted aside, if you read the grand jury report, yes, we will use the word allege. this man was raping, he raped one child, forced oral sex to another child. the cover-up goes back to 1998. goes back to '98 when a woman spoke to him, and he admitted to fondling her son in a shower with a police officer present. the worst thing is vice president shultz reads the report for the penn state police and did nothing. did nothing. this guy was allowed -- he was a professor emeritus basically. what the hell is an assistant coach doing as a professor amare us? free reign to everything. it's jerry sandusky, 29 years defensive coach, linebacker, you, and look what happened. >> obviously, journalists didn't know about this for all these years. but in -- back in march, the "harrisburg patriot news" reported that jerry sandusky was under investigation for a sexual assault. that paterno testified before the grand jury. the media didn't pick it up. totally asleep at the switch in my view. what is it about the coverage of college football that basically turns some of these people into demigods? >> certainly there's a lot of coverage. and you can make the case that joe paterno is bigger than the police, bigger than the president of the university. maybe bigger than the governor. >> and the editor of the paper -- >> bigger than the governor. >> a lot of readers were angry when they reported the grand jury investigation because why are you tearing down bode who's bigger than the governor. >> what i hope, howie, is that this is the wake-up call that everyone needs. enough with the sicophanic coverage. this is the worst that i've seen in 30 years of covering sports, disgusting, sickening, everything. if there's something good, it's that sports journalism starts to emphasize the journalism again. >> in our final minute, buzz, what do you think? >> i really hope christine is right. i think it's good that she feels that way. unfortunately, i don't see it happening. i said the penn state season should continue. however the media coverage that i've seen and i was worried about this was finally that that sis for penn state. look at how well they handled themselves. that was the jist of the bob ford column in "the philadelphia enquire ir." they had a wonderful day yesterday, and it will detract, it will detract from the horror of what happened. you know, i hope this is a turning point. but too many papers, reporters, revere these coaches. and just want them to like them. they don't really believe in distance, and this is the horror of what happened. joe pa got away with murder in a sense. nick sabin. all these guys, urban meyer, all these guys. all these guys. >> all right. buzz, christine, a very difficult subject. very emotional subject. thanks for joining us this morning. >> thank you. after the break, he once wrote a glowing article about jerry sandusky. "sports illustrated's" jack mccollum on how he was fooled by the former penn state coach. wanna know the difference between a trader and an elite trader? it's this... the etrade pro platform. fast. beautiful. totally customizable. finds top performing stocks -- in three clicks. quickly scans the market for new trading ideas. it can even match options strategies to your goals and lets you see the potential risk and reward. and, it also comes with a dedicated elite service team. got it? get it. good. introducing new etrade pro elite. ♪ i tell you what i can spend. i do my best to make it work. i'm back on the road safely. and i saved you money on brakes. that's personal pricing. quite a positive piece 12 years ago on jerry sandusky, then stepping down as assistant football coach at penn state. sandusky was drawing praise at the time for starting a foundation to work with at-risk kids. >> we thought if we could help a handful of kids we would do that. and then the staff and people have looked at the resources we had, at the needs that existed and grown. and reached out and touched so many kids. >> those words sound very different non-that sandusky has been accused of sexually abusing -- of raping a number of young boys. and the author of the "sports illustrated" story, jack mccollum, is taking himself to task for the earlier profile. i spoke to him from allentown, pennsylvania. jack, welcome. >> hey, howie. >> you have the dubious distinction i would say of having written a favorable story about jerry sandusky back in 1999. looking back, how does that make you feel? >> it makes me feel terrible. it caused me to write kind of a mea culpa column for si.com, getting in front of the story, and trying to make two points. number one, how hard it is for someone coming in from the outside to really know somebody, and number two, to sort of express the opinion that i felt terrible about this, and at the point when i wrote it all i was hearing from penn state was a cover-up about how we didn't have any legal culpability. and so that was kind of my two-fold reason for writing the piece that i did. >> you certainly got out in front of it. i guess a friend e-mailed you that you must feel like a jerk. i guess he's a friend, he can say that. but what do you remember about interviewing sandusky back in '99? >> you know, i've racked my brain, and i -- i said in retrospect this doesn't do much good, but, you know, i didn't particularly like the man. the piece is strangely kind of -- i think it was just sort of abbreviated. you know, maybe there wasn't much space. i mean, you've done these kind of things that -- you know, you have this idea and there's not much space. the quotes aren't that great. >> you said he struck you as a little strange? >> yeah. just kind of the -- the word i came up with then was joyless. it just didn't seem like this whole endeavor was producing the kind of, you know, emphatic reaction you would think from people. but, you know, look, that's -- that's cheap hindsight. and had my suspicions grown into anything palpable, obviously i would have written less than a glowing glowing story and i would feel, you know, maybe a lot of trouble could have been avoided. but like a lot of journalists, i fell into that, you know, kind of cursory trap of writing something when you don't really know the whole story. >> i wonder how much any of us know our interview subjects unless we get to spend weeks or months with them. you say now looking back that you were haunted by what was going on at the time that you were doing this piece after reading the grand jury report on this tragedy. >> well, the problem, howie, was that the exact timing of this, if we are to believe, first of all, we hope that there's nothing before 1998. but the timing of this was, you know, the peg of the story was sandusky retiring, which should have put my antenna up that why is a 55-year-old guy, you know, hanging it up? that's not, you know, prime for a coach, but it's not over the hill. so we know now that that was after the first incident and it was before the kind of string of incidents that precipitated the grand jury report. so it's sort of like all's i can think myself -- i'm not a police investigator, but had i known what was going on, you know, some of the stuff that happened could have been -- i could have avoided it. but, you know, that's just the way it went with the story. >> there was no public hint of it, and at the same time, you know, sandusky said he wanted to spend time working on his foundation to help troubled kids, which, of course, all that looks very different in ret retrospe retrospect. might have seemed noble in your writing about it at the time. now we wonder, you know, what was he doing with those kids and was that the reason he had this foundation. >> absolutely. and one of the funny things is is that i always tell -- whenever an athlete tells me, i cover mostly pro basketball over the years, whenever he tells me he's retiring to spend more time with his family or do anything else, my suspicions go right up and i rarely write that about regular athletes. yeah, you're going to spend more time with your family. and in this case probably i should have been a little bit more alert to the signs that sandusky was probably not retiring for all the reasons that he told us that he was. >> right. and finally, in this piece that you write this week, you were kind of shaking your head about joe paterno, who you described as a man i always respected. it looks to me like your rp perhaps some, at least, was misplaced. >> well, i live in pennsylvania, howie, and, you know, joe paterno is a god-like figure. and, you know, we're going to let this all play out. we should do that as journalists. but from the grand jury testimony at the very least we know that penn state knew enough about this guy to bar him from campus. >> right. but just to jump in -- just to jump in because we have a half minute left. is -- wasn't joe paterno a god-like figure in pennsylvania and elsewhere because the media played a very big role in bui building him up to that celestial stature? >> well, no question. and, i mean, i think the only atmosphere that that kind of thing can happen in is college sports. i mean, the guy that retired like that, jon wooden, dean smi smith, you know, knute rockne, a century ago, they were all sort of encased in this closed college community. and it's very hard to get at the essence of the man when you're in there. i'm not saying everything joe paterno did is out the window, but i'm saying this certainly casts a lot of doubt on his legacy. >> to put it mildly. jack mccowan, thanks very much for joining us. >> thank you. and still to come, nbc opens its checkbook and winds up with an interview with michael jackson's doctor. cbs tries yet another lineup in the morning. and the words david gregory wishes he could take back. surpr. because this is how people and business connect. feeling safe and secure that important letters and information don't get lost in thin air. or disappear with a click. but are delivered. from person to person. and, sometimes, even face to face. have a great day. you too. for some of the best ways to connect and protect... it's all in the mail. learn more at usps.com/mail. try bayer advanced aspirin. it's not the bayer aspirin you know. it's different. first, it's been re-engineered with micro-particles. second, it enters the bloodstream fast, and rushes relief to the site of your tough pain. the best part? it's proven to relieve pain twice as fast as before. bayer advanced aspirin. test how fast it works for you. love it, or get your money back. time now for the "media monitor," our weekly look at the hits and errors in the news business. the "today" show aired an exclusive interview this week with conrad murray, michael jackson's doctor. why would he agree to an interview to be broadcast after the trial that convicted him of involuntary manslaughter for providing the drugs that killed jackson? well, he got a chance to spin the charges against him. >> you were the last person to see him or talk to him before he died. what was he like in those final hours? >> a desperate man, desperate. >> are you the cause of michael jackson's death? >> no, i am not. >> but there was another factor, as well. nbc spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy a british documentary simp thetic to conrad murray. abc passed by the way. none of the documentary money went to conrad murray but even nbc doesn't deny the two are related. here's the network statement. a shoddy way of an interview, not quite paying the subject but getting a bit too close to a man who's just been found guilty in a sensational case. cbs' "early show," in third place roughly forever, has picked a new team. charlie rose and gayle king, who has a show on her pal oprah winfrey's network. here's what's fascinating. cbs is planning a newsier, more conversational from problem. rather than trying to outdo the "today" show and "good morning america" with their heavy emphasis on celebrities and crime and entertainment. can that kind of approach work in the morning? we'll keep an eye on it. david gregory stepped in it the other day talking about herman cain, the sexual harassment allegations and the republican party on the "today" show. >> does the party wish he would just go away? >> there is no grand wizard in the party right now who can re