-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight the jobs crisis, america's and his. >> there is work to be done, and there are people who are willing to do it. we need congress to get on board. >> can barack obama save his own job? with the lowest approval ratings ever, is this the last chance to get the presidency on track? ly talk to one of his biggest advisers and the country's biggest labor leader if he has turned the corner, and what he thinks of this -- >> let's take these sons of a bitches back and give america what they want. >> and will dennis kucinich challenge him from the left? and a man who is part of the team who has briefed the president everyday and sat face to face next to osama bin laden, and we will talk to author john miller. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening, president obama hard at work today on the speech that america is waiting for, his address to a joint session of congress thursday night laying out the jobs plan. the stakes could not be higher for what may be the make-or-break moment of the entire obama presidency coming in the midst of a perfect storm for the white house. the president's approval ratings are lower than they ever been with 6 of 10 americans give him afailing grade of how he is handli handling unemployment, and today, mitt romney had this to say. >> growing the economy is to balance the budget. the right answer for america is not the grow government or believe that government can create jobs. growth is the answer and not government. >> joining me is the nation's top leader john trumka, the leader of the labor union, and you are the most relevant guy to ask this right now, do you believe that president obama will announce anything on thursday that will get america back to work? >> i believe he will announce a number of projects and things that will put america back to work. i think that he will talk about infrastructure, and the need to rebuild the country. our infrastructure is crumbling and make us more competitive and create jobs. he will talk about the faa authorization, and getting the airports and the transportation back into shape so we can compete around the world. he will talk about a number of things like that, all of which will have to be taken together as a package to actually get the job done. >> how much involvement have you had in terms of the speech? you seem to be well informed on what the president may be saying? >> well, i haven't had any involvement in the speech, itself. but we have had numerous opportunities to communicate with the members of the administration and with the president, himself, about the things that need to be done to create jobs. he knows our position, and what we need right now is more than anything else, piers, is for the president to be a leader, to be bold, and to being a gres i.v. -- be aggressive and let the workers know that he is fighting for them. >> and i couldn't agree more. the president needs to be clear with the clock ticking to the election year. the clock is ticking, isn't it? >> well, we have 35 million people underemployed or out of work. they are out of work for a long time and they need people to fight for them and hope and they need the politicians to lead rather than doing the radical-type politics that we are seeing in the past that drive us up to brinksmanship and prevent anything from getting done. >> the president has always stood for audacity of hope, and the change and the so son. do you think that he has it in him to come up with a plan that is big enough, radical enough and effective enough to really transform this jobs crisis? >> i mean, look at the background. when everybody told him that he should let the auto industry go to the wayside, he stepped up to take bold action and saved the auto industry and put hundreds of thousands of people back to work and saved a lot of communities from pain. when it came to the health care bill, he was willing to stand up. i mean, he didn't get much help from across the aisle and they did everything they could to negotiate it down so that it wasn't effective, but he stood up for that. when it came to the stimulus package, he stood up and said, we have to help americans get back to work. so, he has done some bold things in the past, but we need him to be bold again and a leader again, and we need him to be aggressive again and singularly focus on creating jobs, jobs, jobs and more jobs and actually steam roll anybody who gets in the way. >> do you think that if you were being critical that president obama has left this far too late, and should have dealt with this almost the moment he took over as president, because he put a lot of time and energy into the ing thbs like the health care plan and into sorting out iraq and afghanistan and so on and almost everything but jobs. many criticize him for not focusing on the one thing which is probably the most relevant to the lives of ordinary mile an hours. -- lives of ordinary americans. >> well sh, he did focus on it,t he had a number of things to deal with. he was dealt a pretty bad hand and he didn't ask for iraq and afghanistan to deal with, and he had to deal with them, and he didn't have a choice. the strategic mistake was when he confused jobs with the debt discussion, because they got in the way of one another. we don't have a debt crisis in this country, and we really have a jobs crisis in this country. >> mitt romney called the chinese a bunch of cheats today. did you agree with that? >> well, in many ways they don't play by the rules. they manipulate the currency and they don't play by the rules, and so the chinese have a ways to go. i have to say this, unlike george bush, this president really has tried to enforce the trade laws. he is going through a number of cases, and in fact, one of the ones on rubber tires which is just finalized today, the chinese lost their last appeal and we will have the opportunity to correct those situations. that is hurting this economy. them not playing by the rules gives them an unfair advantage over every producer in this country, and we have tried to get it stopped. the only thing that they understand is if we actually get serious about it. >> i mean, you can use the word cheat liberally and people are in dealing with china, and they have been incredibly competitive some would argue and out-businessed america in business and that is one of the problems and i e throw back at you perhaps responsibility for the employers and take apple one of america's great success stories employing 25,000 people in america, the company that makes their computers employs 450,000 people in china. so where does employer, american employer responsibility kick in here? >> they have a significant responsibility that they haven't been taking up. of course, our trade laws help them, and our tax laws reward them for taking jobs overseas, and we ought to be creating laws and working together to send products overseas and not our jobs overseas. i think that employers can do that. they are taking advantage of when china cheats, they get an advantage of that cheating if they are located in china. they should be working with us, create a level playing field and help us to create jobs here, because i believe when the american worker is given a level playing field, they can compete with anybody in the world. >> obviously, jim hoffa had some rather harsh words to say about the tea party, and let's listen to what he said. >> we have to keep an eye into battle that we face, the war on workers, and you see it everywhere and it is the tea party, and there is only one way to beat and win that war, and the one thing about working people is we like a good fight. president obama, this is your army. we are ready to march. let's take these son of a -- out and give america back to where we belong. >> and so, mr. trumka, tea party son of a bitches? >> i probably would not have chosen the adjectives he used, but jim hoffa is speaking for the anger that millions of americans have. these people are taking and playing political brinkmanship and not willing to h toing to h create jobs and get the country moving. some of them announced they want the president to fail in his attempts to get the economy right. that is wrong. they shouldn't be doing that. and they don't have the right to say that they are truly the only patriotic ones out there when they want the country to fail and 25 million people not to get back to work. so jim hoffa was probably speaking about the anger and what he was saying is that all politicians that don't stand up for jobs, all politicians that don't help us get back to work and right this economy, we ought to take them out of office. that is what he was saying. >> tell me, what is the mood amongst your members and indeed members of other leading unions? i'm detecting that from what i am hearing and rheaing th inrea a cooling of president obama and that must concern him, because he is going to need their votes. >> i would say there is a cooling towards politicians in general and to washington, d.c. because not enough is getting done. i mean, the strategy of the republicans to not let anything get done to fix the economy has had some effect, but our members really understand what is happening. it is not that they are saying that we have to go vote for a group of people that are anti-worker and pro business, but what they are saying is that we want more leadership from the elected officials, and that includes the president. we want elected leadership from the senate and the house and the governors and from the state and local bodies to actually start focusing on creating jobs, and putting people back to work. and look, piers, we are the richest nation on the face of the earth, and 1 of 5 children right now are living in poverty and that is growing. the inequality is growing and the joblessness is growing, because they are not focusing on creating jobs. it is not that we can't do it, but it is that they choose not to do it for political reasons. that's what has angered americans. they want somebody to lead. the president has a chance, and if he leads on thursday night, which i hope and think he will, and he says, singular, our purpose is going to be creating jobs, i think that the american people will stand up and support him, because they want to work. that's what they want to do. they don't want to get unemployment checks. they need them when they are unemployed, but they want to work. that is what defines us. >> and also, i think that one of the reasons that the mood perhaps of your members on president obama has cooled is that he did of course go back really on his promise to reroll all of the tax breaks for the rich, and now we have a warren buffett, one of the richest people in the world, almost begging to be taxed and why doesn't president obama say, warren buffett is right, anybody over $1 million a year, i'm going to tax the hell out of you, because we need the revenue to put us back on the our feet. >> and he is right, as warren buffett said, there is nothing f -- there is something fundamentally wrong with a hedge fund manager who is taxed less than the secretary who works for him. they are not paying their fair share and they need to. the president in the months and years ahead need to stand up to do that. if the bush tax cuts are allowed to expire in january, 50% of the deficit that everybody keeps screaming about, at least the republicans keep screaming about will go away. a surtax on millionaires has 70-some percent of the american public supporting it. it is not a political downside and you have to wonder why every politician is not jumping up to say, you asked for shared sacrifice, and workers did. they took cuts in the pay and the pension and they lost their homes, and they lost their jobs -- and you are not doing anything different. it is yo-- your turn to share a little bit and if he did that, he would be a folk hero. >> richard trumka, thank you. >> thank you, piers. thanks for having me on again. >> and could president obama face a different challenger from the republicans? i will ask republican dennis kucinich. 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[ professor ] good morning students. today, we're gonna... anything different. kucinich. there's work to be done and there are workers ready to do it. labor is on board. business is on board. we just need congress to get on board. let's put america back to work. >> that was president obama in detroit yesterday previewing the jobs plan, a plan that may not be bold enough. my next guest dennis kucinich says that america is ready for a second new deal and washington needs to spend more to create jobs, and congressman kucinich joins me now. congressman, you are not impressed then by what you think may be coming? is. >> we want our president to succeed, but frankly, we have to go beyond the minimalism that has characterized most of the obama administration's programs when it comes to job creation. so i am hoping that the president when he speaks to congress on thursday will talk about big plans on the scale that fdr had when he brought the new deal forward, because we have 14 million people unemployed and it is important to be mindful that just small steps aren't going to do it anymore. >> and if you were the president, how big are we talking about? how big does president obama have to come out to make a real difference here? >> well, i would hope that the president would call on the government's capacity to be able to spend money into circulation just like the fed to create money out of nothing to quantitative easing. the government has the capacity to spend the money into circulation to meet the infrastructure needs of the country, and the american society of civil epg neneers sa there are $2.1 million of needs that has yet to be met. and you have half a million jobs right now that could find funding with the help of the federal government, and we should be looking at the green revolution in terms of funding it. nasa has enormous capacities to be able to help serve as an incubator for jobs in the private sector, and being the creation of the concept, design engineering and lending the private sector running with ideas to help create millions of jobs. we don't have a lack of resources, truly. we have a lack of imagination, and i'm hopeful that our president will seize the moment, and recognize that the american people are ready for big plans. >> one of the problems is that the republicans, it is not in their interest to support president obama, because if he does well, and gets america back to work, then he is going to be winning the next election, and if he does badly and unemployment goes up, america has a few months for this to evolve and he could get booted out of office, so where is the incentives of the republicans to not play partisan games here? >> well, the conventional political analysis is spot-on, however, there are republicans and democrats out of work. the republican businesses who are suffering from a lack of demand right now, and the only way that you increase the demand is to be able to make sure that people have jobs. and so, it is in the interest of the republicans to come forward and support large big plans, but a it helps all of america. we have to close the ranks right now as republicans and democrats to recognize that it is unemployment and not the deficit which is the major economic challenge of our times, and we must meet this challenge, and i'm hopeful when the president comes forward thursday he will have a plan to do that an challenge the democrats and republicans alike to pass it. >> when you see what is going on with the republicans and the split between the tea party and the more mad roderate end of th party, what do you think will happen then? is it a shoo-in for the president when it comes to it, because no one is quite sure what the gop stand for? >> all right. it is going to be about the economy. the president obama is successful in getting millions of americans back to work, i would expect him to be re-elected, however, if he is not successful in doing that, then people are going to be looking for change. and so, this is all about the economy, and we have to get people back to work, and there are over 6 million people in danger of losing their homes, and we have to help people save their homes and protect poomeops retirement security and if the president can address those to the satisfaction of the american people, he will stay in office and if not, you are looking at an extremely close presidential race in which the republican nominee would have a pretty fair shot at it based on the economy. >> can you see a situation where anyone challenges president obama from within his own party? you, yourself, have run for the white house a couple of times, and made a couple of bids, and could you see where you or somebody else knows something that we need to have a different face here? >> well, i'm not a candidate. can i see someone coming forward to challenge president obama from the ranks of the democratic party? i suppose it is possible, but there again, it is about the economy and that is what it should be about. we have to get america back to work and frankly, we have to stop wasting money on the wars that is causing us to be able to lose the resources that we need to be able to focus on things here at home. so, should president obama have a challenge? i say he should. i think it would make him a better president if he received a democratic challenge in a democratic primary. will i be that candidate? no. >> do you feel that president obama needs to beat his chest a little bit and do you feel disappointed like many democrats do that he has been, a little bit tame in the way he has dealt particularly with the republicans, being pushed around too much, and even down to when he can make a speech. it is a little bit demeaning and why doesn't he say, you know something, i'm the president of the united states, john boehner and if you want to move your thing, you move it. >> there is something to what kipling wrote about if you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, there is something to it. on the other hand, american people are looking for the kind of dynamic leadership which we believe that president obama is capable of providing, but it is not just in the rhetoric. the rhetoric has to be matched by action, and that is why i talk about the big plans and something to put millions of americans back to work and prime the pump of the economy and see our roads and bridges and water and sewer systems rebuilt and the younger people having a chance at college education and do something about the inequities of the society growing because people don't have a job. so, president obama if he can focus on it with a rooseveltian panache, we have an opportunity to see a different president obama emerge. the times call forth from each leader the potential that they have. and we all think that president obama has the potential, and the question is whether or not he will do it, and whether he does it and delivers on the jobs issue is going to determine whether or not he is re-elected. >> without being too dramatic about it, could the prospect of a second term of office for barack obama hinge on this speech on thursday? >> hinge on the speech, no. but the re-election hinge on the speech, no. but will his re-election depend on the ability to create millions of jobs, yes. we have to realize that the same old minimalism that has guided the government's response in the last couple of years is is not substantive enough to meet the challenges of rebuilding our economy. we need to create over 300,000 new jobs every month for the next couple of years just to get back to a level of unemployment that we had a few years ago. >> i mean, slightly rephrasing then, my previous point, if those jobs are not created, and in fact, if there is continued unemployment and the figure goes up, it is going to be almost impossible, isn't it for president obama to win the election? >> it would be very difficult, but i will say this. his destiny politically is within his control. i want to add this, if people will say, well, you know, he doesn't have the votes. go to the american people, and get the votes. rally the american people for jobs, and they will respond and congress will follow. >> is it time for a little audacity and hope? >> yes. i wish i had thought of saying that, but i would say yes, it is time for the audacity that is creative that calls forth new possibilities simply by reaching out to people, touch iing their hearts and imaginations and say this is the way that america is going to move forward, and now let's move together. >> yes, i'm with you, congressman. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you, sir. next a man who was part of the team that briefed president obama on terror threats and sat face to face with osama bin laden. 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[ male announcer ] stay smart and book smart. book early and save up to 20% at any holiday inn express. stay you. you have been described as the world's most wanted man. there's word that the american government intends to put a price on your head in the millions for your capture. do you think that they will do that? does it worry you? >> translator: praise be to al law. it does not matter us what the americans think. it matters to please allah, and only those who infringe on his rights. we do not worry about the american opinion. that is john miller who is getting the mastermind of 9/11 on camera. and he has been the sas assistant deputy as well. thank you for joining us. with osama bin laden and other al qaeda leaders being bumped off, too, are we seeing the end of al qaeda as a terrorist organization? >> well, reseeing them spin out of control in terms of command and control. you the death of bin laden who if not operationally and intimately on a daily basis involved and also the killing of the guy who was running the day-to-day operations and then the number two who is now the number one yay man al zawahiri off to the side who has now lost his leader and lost his operations guy, and has deep concerns for his own security, so that is a tough way to run an organization. i think that you have to qualify that by saying that it is an organization that has proven again and again that it is adaptable and we have to be weary of that. >> that is certainly true. you interviewed bin laden, of course, before 9/11, and as we approach the tenth anniversary of the events of that day, take me back to when you met bin laden. did you ever imagine when you had that extraordinary encounter that he might be capable of pulling off such an atrocity? >> i was fairly certain from the time i met bin laden and this is not revisionist history, but i said that as we harden targets, bin laden would strike on u.s. soil. on that, i think that i saw that coming to some degree, but what i didn't see cominincoming, andt think anybody saw coming was the scaleability of it coming. what i saw was a truck bomb on the soil of a public place, but the idea of using planes as missiles to kill thousands of people on a ing isingle day was beyond the concept that any of us were looking at. >> the criticism of that would be that people in your position, and others at much higher level at time, their specific job is to think the unthinkable, and this was on a totally different scale than anything that had happened before, but do you believe as a result of what happened the thinking of the unthinkable planning is now much better than it used to bin laden a nd it would be almost impossible for somebody else to carry that out going forward? >> well, we have reduced al qaeda's ability dramatically. they are not able to pull off an attack with 2 1/2 years of planning and flight schools and logistics and so on, and we have gotten much better at bridging the gap. the 9/11 commission called it as you just did a failure of imagination. i think to look at it another way though, that al qaeda goes to the drawing board everyday as does each one of its affiliates, and they are still very image a tive, because if you look at the london plot where they hooked up a casualty to get 2,000 to 3,000 more people killed with more than a dozen flights over the atlantic by spending a few thousand dollars with that boat plot. so they are always back to the drawing board in r&d all of the time. >> how can you say this we haven't seen more atrocities since 9/11, and how much of that is down to better intel ens j and more people doing the intelligence work, and how much of it is down to perhaps operations in afghanistan and so on to dismantle al qaeda, itself, do you any? or both? >> well, it is both. i think that if you look at the patterns there, in the post 9/11 world, we had an average of about four plots targeting u.s. soil or emanating on u.s. soil a year. in 2008-2009, that jumps to nine and then ten. and in 20011, 2011, we are on o match that, and something has happened, a better maturation or better way to get it out to cause the plots to come at us at literally a pace of almost one a month, and when you deal in that volume, you have a special challenge. number one, we are operating at 100% of intra dikting them and shutting them down, but the otds of maintaining the batting average as the numbers go up, those go down. >> you have also metal zawahiri and how does he contrast with osama bin laden, because he is normal now in charge of al qaeda and how do you think of a man when you met him and how does he compare to bin laden and what is going through his mind now as he tries to regroup and rally the troops do you think? >> well, al zawahiri is an interesting man. he is an egyptian pediatrician and he had his own group. he was captured and tried by the egyptians after the assassination of the president there. he joined bin laden basically because he had nowhere else to go. he had to go to afghanistan and he had run out of money, but as an educateded ma man, physician speaks very good english and understands western culture and interesting to be with. >> when you saw the pitiful images of bin laden watching the tv set and that grim little place he was hiding in, he was pretty diminishing for him, but does that sum up the fact that al qaeda has managed to bluff the world into thinking that they are incredibly sophisticated and glamorous outfit, when it looks like they are a another bunch of terrorists who have gotten lucky a few times? >> well, i think that it is no secret to any of us that a lot of the television production involves bluff, and if you look at the reengineering of bin laden's image, when i sat down with bin laden, he wore a green army fatigue and signified that he was a military leader and carried a weapon, but when you look at the remake of bin laden, he is wearing formal wear and sitting at a desk with a script as if he is in the oval cave addressing the world. that was to resignify that al qaeda was not a rag tag terrorist group being beaten down in the war, but a global organization. >> hold that thought, and i want to come back to ask you who you think is the greatest threat to america today. my doctor told me calcium is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose. new citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal. with over 30 years of medicare experience, unitedhealthcare medicare solutions can help. just give us a call. the annual enrollment period to switch your medicare coverage is earlier this year, from october 15th to december 7th, so now is a great time to review your situation. call now or visit us online to get this free answer guide from unitedhealthcare medicare solutions. call right now. ask me. if you think even the best bed can only lie there... ask me what it's like... when my tempur-pedic moves... ...talk to someone who owns an adjustable version of the most highly recommended bed in america... ask me about my tempur advanced ergo. ask me about having all the right moves. these are real tempur-advanced ergo owners! find one for yourself. check out twitter. try your friends on facebook... see what they have to say...unedited. it goes up... ask me what it's like to get a massage ---any time you want. ...it goes down... ergo...nomics... ergo...nomics... tempur-pedic brand owners are more satisfied than owners of any traditional mattress brand. (in chinese) ask me why i never want to leave my ergo. ask me why i'm glad i didn't wait 'till i was too old to enjoy this. start asking real owners. ask me how to make your first move... find out more about the tempur advanced ergo system! call the number on your screen for your free dvd and information kit. to find an authorized dealer near you, visit tempurpedic.com. tempur-pedic. the most highly recommended bed in america. i do solemnly swear -- >> general david petraeus sworn in as the new director of cia and talking with me now is john miller who is stepped down as director of the director of national intelligence. and you had to deal with all of the threats and the warnings coming in all of the time against the white house, and against the president and against america, and tell me about that job. i mean, it must be pretty nerve-racking, because as they say that the terrorists only have to be lucky once and you have to be lucky every minute of everyday? >> well, the analysis division in the dni is the overarching group who has the group of people who prepare the presidents' daily briefing, and looking at that document, and looking at the team of people who prepare it, and every day, they work all day trying to figure out what are the key issues that need to get in front of the president, and all night, they work on putting it together in a way that makes sense, that is is visual, that is succinct and gets to the point. it is an extraordinary hard-working team of people, and they do a great job. when you look at that dk umt yoyo -- document, the first few times you read it, you say, oh, my, this is a frightenbing world and then month after month you say, that is the cadence of the dangerous world we live in. >> is al qaeda still the number one threat to america's security or from everything that you have picked up over the last few years, are there other organizations that you think may or even lone individuals who pose a bigger threat? >> well, al qaeda is the key threat to killing americans on u.s. soil or overseas in rapid operations. there are other threats, national security threats, and the cyber threat which is a slow and very expansive creeping threat, but when it comes to who is going to blow a plane out of the sky and who is going to put a truck bomb in a u.s. city or attack an embassy overseas, al qaeda is still number one on the hit parade. >> how convinced are you by what we have seen in the arab spring and while it looks terribly exciting, no one really knows who is taking over in places like egypt or libya with the rebels and so on, and if you were in your job, would you be pretty concerned about the situation would you think that we need to be finding out quickly who is going to be running these countries? >> well, power abhors a vacuum, and when you topple a government and there is a vacuum, it is not always filled by the people that you planned it to be filled by, that you desired it to be filled by or intended to fill it on the ground. so, it is the kind of situation where there has to be a lot of of involvement, a lot of hand-holding by the international community in the u.n., but also a lot of intelligence. it has to be watched closely, because you have to see who is maneuvering on the sidelines who may suddenly emerge. the arab spring is a story with a great beginning of the toppling of totalitarian governments by populist movements, but the story is going to be told not by the beginning, but by the end which is do they achieve something close to democracy which is what they were seeking, or do we end up with more dangerous situations or do they end up with more depottic governments, and that story has not, the end has not come yet. >> what is your personal view from all that you have seen? >> i'm an optimist by nature. i think that one of the great bi-products of this is that these populist movements that rapidly overthrew governments and totalitarian regimes in place for three decades and more and in many ways did a lot of damage to al qaeda's business model. al qaeda's business model requires that you have to blow up buildings and scare people and you have to do tremendous damage, and here was a leveraging of social media tools and in a number of these countries that worked much faster, so i think that's a good thing. but, again, i think it requires regional assistance and international assistance and u.s. involvement to aid and guide before we see this through. >> we will go to another short break, but when we come back, i want to ask you about as we approach the anniversary of 9/11, how concerned you are about another attack perhaps around that day, and what we should be expecting going forward? 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[ falcon screeches ] breaking news at 10:00 p.m. on "360" the details of president obama's jobs plan, and the $300 billion jobs plan. and also a controversial case in "crime and punishment." a california gay student shot in his classroom by another student. the jury could not come to a ver ticket and there was a mistrial. the question now, will they retry the accused killer in the lawrence king murder? we will talk to a teacher who was in the classroom when lawrence king was shot. we will go to front lines of the firestorm in texas. firefighters have been battling blazes like this wub for 290 days straight, but it is moving fast, these flames. those stories and the latest on the race for presidency and tonight's ridiculist at the top of the hour. more of "piers morgan tonight" in a moment. they say, "well, if you want a firm bed you can lay on one of those, if you want a soft bed you can lay on one of those." we provide the exact individualization that your body needs. welcome to our biggest sale of the year. not just ordinary beds on sale, but the bed that can change your life on sale. the sleep number bed. it calibrates precisely to your body and your comfort zone. now you can feel what happens as we raise your sleep number setting and allow the bed to contour to your individual shape. oh yeah. it's really shaping to my body. during our biggest sale of the year, every bed is on sale. queen mattresses now start at just $599. and during the final week, save 40% on our innovative limited edition bed set. but only while supplies last and only through sunday. you can adjust it however you want so you don't have to worry about buying the wrong mattress. once they get our bed, they're like, "why didn't i do this sooner?" don't miss the biggest sale of the year on the bed that can change your life. the sleep number bed. only at the sleep number store. why doi think that the country has really not been attacked since september 11th? there have been at least 40 attempts to do such attacks in the united states attacks in the united states since then. a lot more than people realize. and those are 40 that i can find from public documents from my previous experience in government i can assure you there are probably a lot more. >> rudy giuliani earlier today. back with me now is terrorism expert john miller. i've got rudy actually on the show tomorrow, john, obviously one of the pivotal figures of 9/11. clearly he's reflecting an american concern many have you can never be complacent about this kind of thing, the snaefrs itself might be used as an excuse to commit some other atrocity, not necessarily al qaeda but by a lone individual who wants to make a name for themselves. how does america prepare for this kind of event? >> i think america has been preparing incrementally for ten years since 9/11. the intelligence is better, the response is better, the command and control is better. but those are not tools you want to end up using. i mean, the intelligence is on the front end. and what nayer giuliani was referring to, 40 attacks, that's now closer to 50. and that involves almost about 130 individuals who have become suspects in those cases since 9/11 in those 50 plots. that's an awful lot of plotting and planning that has been interdicted. that's a good thing. but you have to remember, there are a couple where we were just lucky. the plane over detroit? that was not a thing where we were there in place to stop it. he broke the detonator and his bomb failed to go off. we were lucky there. the truck bomb in times square in may of '09 with phafaisel faisel shazad? he flew under the radar. the plots by al qaeda and time and time again the extraordinary work by the cia, nsa and other agencies, the fbi has stopped those attacks in their tracks, either by actions overseas or things here. the flip side of that, though, is when they're pumping out over the internet magazines with bomb-making instructions and tactical advice for how to do a shooting like a mumbai attack that are on the internet and that are available to millions and millions of people, some of whom may be followers, that's pretty hard to keep a thumb on. >> and john, what was the thing when you used to do your job? what was the one thing that you dreaded most? what is the doomsday event as far as intelligence operatives go when it comes to this kind of thing? >> well, i think as you said a little further back in this showing, you're always trying to outimagine the bad guys. what have they experimented with? they're experimenting cyanide bombs for the subway. flying small planes into buildings filled with explosives, they have plotted with printer bombs as we saw several months ago, truck bombs. i mean, they never stop plotting. the thing that kept me up at night was not so much the plotting or the shape of it but the thing that kept me up at night because of my job, which was analytic transformation and technology, how to bring the information together and how to drive intelligence reform was that attack would happen and we would find out somewhere in our vast systems we had the information to stop it and we couldn't find it. and that's still an issue. it's being worked on. but it's not entirely fixed. >> are you a slightly relieved that you no longer have to have this responsibility bearing down on your shoulders? >> i have to say, the dni, the director of national intelligence is by and large a policy shop that is meant to lead the intelligence community. and that's a big challenge for any organization. and the dni based on the laws it was given to carry out that job has a challenge there. the job that really when i left i kind of wiped my brow was deputy chief for counterterrorism of the city of los angeles. because it's a significant target. it was plotted against numerous times. we had all kinds of suspects on the street. and we were able to stop a plot in progress. but every night i went to bed, the question i ask is, who did we miss? who are we not looking at? did we not follow a lead that would have taken us somewhere? because but for covering those leads you could show up in your police car somewhere, get out and be standing over a bunch of bodies and wonder if somehow it wasn't your fault. and that was a huge responsibility. the guy who has that job now, mike downing, will be in new york tomorrow with john timinu from the miami police and philadelphia police, ray kelly from the new york police, bill bratton. all the major chiefs will be in the city tomorrow actually in a discussion over what have we done right, what could we do better at the manhattan institute. so that will be fascinating also. >> but none of you guys ever really get any praise for stuff that doesn't happen but you soon get kicked when things do. so with that we've got ten years without another event like 9/11 is a testimony to the extraordinary work that you've all done over the last few years. so john miller, thank you very much. >> well, thank you, piers. and thanks for having me. >> my pleasure. when we come back, a preview of my prime time exclusive with amy winehouse's father mitch. ♪ ♪ one, two, three, four ♪ you say ♪ flip it over and replay ♪ we'll make everything okay ♪ walk together the right way ♪ do, do, do, do what if we designed an electric motorcycle? 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