smashing. feed you up a bit, anderson. you're looking a bit lightweight. >> i'll leave it there. >> we'll return to this another night. thanks anyway. that's more like it. kind of respect i deserve. tonight the congressman who has been called the intellectual godfather of the tea party, a man who came in second but just barely to michele bachmann in the ames straw poll this weekend. joining me now is republican ron paul. ron paul, you're the most untalked about contender today after this weekend i can ever remember. you should be getting as many headlines as michele bachmann. you nearly beat her. yet ultimately the media seem completely obsessed with her and not obsessed with you. why is that? >> i should be asking you. you're part of the media. it's the media that picks and chooses. i should ask the media. >> i thought you are. i put you on my show. >> i'm looking for an explanation too. but you know, my supporters are convinced they're afraid of me. they don't want my views out there. they're too dangerous. we want freedom, and we're challenging the status quo. we want to end the war. we want a gold standard. and they are views that the people just can't handle. they can't handle all this freedom. they want dependency and socialism and welfarism. i think they don't like to hear our views. but i think we'll make the best of it and we'll do very well. i think the internet is still alive and well. and programs like yours will still have me on. >> well, we certainly will because it's a fascinating part of the preliminary stage, if you like of the election battle. what do you think of michele bachmann? she clearly thinks that she has a chance now of becoming the nominee. what is your view? >> well, she does. her name is on the ballot. she did very well in a straw poll. and she does identify with, you know, some independent-thinking people. she does not want to be seen as status quo and the establishment. so i know her well. and we've been friends. i just disagree with her views because i don't think she is that far from the status quo as i would like her to be. and i would like this country to be. so her views are quite different on personal civil liberties and different on foreign policy. and therefore they will be different on personal liberty and spending habits as well. >> a lot of democrats are putting it about today that michele bachmann and you are threats and should be taken seriously, you're dangerous. that normally means a coded language for they would love you both to do well because it will rip the republicans in half and probably guarantee president obama wins the next election. >> well, i don't know. i'm not too frightened about that. i think i do very well with the independents and, you know, even your own station there when you do polling, i come out either first or second against obama. so i think the democrats fear me, you know, when they try to pick, when the democrat picks, we fear mostly john hutsman. that's who we fear. they never bring up the fact that i would slash into obama's civil libertarian viewpoints. he doesn't really follow through on personal liberties. he does not, you know, support ending the wars. he expanded the wars. so the progressive base has really left obama. so i think the establishment that doesn't want the status quo challenged would be most opposed to me. and quite frankly, the leadership in both parties are very supportive of the wars, they're very supportive of the federal reserve. they're very supportive of the entitlement system. so therefore both media and party-wise, they would be very, very nervous about us getting the expression of support that we have got. and they want to squelch it if they can. i don't think it's unusual. i've been used to. this this has been going on for a long time. this is nothing that is actually new. sometimes i am very pleased with the progress we're making, and when we can win a poll, essentially tied in this poll in iowa, i think it shows great strength for our viewpoints and for our campaign. >> tell me this. you're 75 years old now. you served 12 terms in congress. you've had two unsuccessful runs at the white house, and yet perversely, despite all that, you actually have arrived at a position now where your views are more and more in line, i would imagine, with many average americans. they are fed up with washington behavior. they can see that there is a need to cut spending dramatically. i would imagine most americans would begin to think that the troops should come out of afghanistan and iraq as well. this could be your time, couldn't it, ron? it might be your last chance. >> i would think we do have a very good chance. but i usually summarize this when i'm at the rallies where we have good turnouts. and i get a lot of applause. freedom is popular. people like to be free. especially when they see the failure of government. that's why so many people are coming our way, even those who would like these government programs, that depend on governments, they realize we're flat-out broke. this is one of the reasons we're getting support on ending these wars. even if they say well, we need to be over there, we need to fill the vacuum, we're afraid things are going to happen. they know we can't afford it. we have to borrow the money to fight these wars. and they're talking about starting new ones all the time. we can't keep up with this. this is very popular with young people. freedom is a fantastic idea. when you see the failure of government, we become more popular. our views become more prevalent, and we are more mainstream than ever before. and the most magnificent thing is they have understood, you know, exactly how we pay for this. we don't -- we can't tax enough. we can't borrow enough. so more and more people are understanding the federal reserve has something to do with this. oh, you mean they print this money? the money is not backed by anything? people are shocked. then when you find out a third of the $15 trillion they pumped into the economy went to foreigners, some might have even gone to the british panks. people are upset because they don't like to see the rich bailed out, the middle class shrunk and the poor losing their house. that's what they're fed up about. and the austrian free market school of economics explains it. believe me, people are waking up to that fact. >> let me put this to you, ron, because you're a charismatic guy. you did very well in this straw poll. it doesn't mean an awful lot. but it's an indicator that you is a a popular vote there. you nearly won it. what i hear about you is very experienced, charismatic, people like you. but the thing that holds you back is when you stray into extremity. they don't like the fact you're so completely opposed to any foreign aid. they don't like the fact you want to legalize heroin. many people don't like your total intransigence over any tax increase, especially warren buffett saying hit the rich harder. people don't like your intransigence over abortion, for example, where you don't believe even if someone is rape they'd should be allowed an abortion. are you prepared at this moment everyone is wondering which way the republicans are going to go. are you prepared on some of these more extreme lines you have taken to soften, to mod rarity, to in short make yourself more electable? >> why should somebody soften their viewpoint on defending the rule of law and defending the constitution? that would be foolish. i think extremists are in charge. they have been in charge especially for the last 40 years, since they've been allowed to print money at. that's why we've extended ourselves overseas. that's why we have inflation, depression, recessions, all these things. that so extreme. this idea that you have, this year our entitlements and debt have obligated our people to $5 trillion. and they think i'm extreme? i mean, this is weird. and oh, no, we'll just print up the money, and everybody will be wealthy. but unfortunately they give out the money and it goes to the wealthy people. the poor get poorer that is weird. well, it's really bad. it's bad economics. it's bad morality. it doesn't conform with our constitution. and the people know this. they're really waking up to this. and this seems to be -- most people come up to me and say what you say is common sense. it's not like i'm spouting off some extreme position. >> hang on, hang on. ron, huang on a second. >> yes? >> i don't think people are rushing up to you on the streets of america saying legalize heroin. that's common sense, are they? >> no. and in fairness to me, i've never used the word "heroin" once in a campaign ever in 30 years. though somebody in the media says we're going to interpret what he said. this might mean he would allow the states to do such and such. all i'm saying is people want to have freedom of choice, just as you have freedom of choice in your first amendment rights, picking and choosing what you do and say on tv. i just think personal choices. i mean, i usually use the example of personal choices to say why is it that the federal government comes down with a s.w.a.t. team to arrest people who drink raw milk? you know, what has happened in this country? use the drug as an example because i know how people demagogue it. but it is true there was a time in our history a time ago there was no federal laws against marijuana in 1937 and before this. this is rather new. we have spent a trillion dollars on the war on drugs, and it hasn't done one thing except enhance the drug dealers. so this idea you can take my philosophy, and i'm not accusing you of doing it, but others have. take my philosophy and say ron paul, his philosophy is he's going to legalize heroin. that is a distortion. pardon me? >> if you're such a protagonist for people's choice and freedom of choice, why are you so implaquebly opposed to same-sex marriage and a to any form of abortion under any circumstance? that's not supporting choice, it is? >> i think you're mixed up. i'm against the marriage amendment and i believe people can do what they want. i don't want the government involved in marriage. anybody can do what they want and call it whatever they want. they shouldn't force their will on other people. on abortion, i just recognition as a physician and scientist that life does exist require to birth there is a legal right to it and there is a biological definition of it. and most people don't think about it, that if you say the woman has a right to do what she wants with her body and what is in her body, that means that an eight-pound baby a month before birth can be destroyed and the doctor be paid for it. there is something awfully bizarre about a society that says oh, that's okay because it's a woman's body. and a every argument for all abortion endorses the principle that you can take that life and abort it and kill it. and i had to witness this. it's very disturbing. so i think that somebody has to speak for the meek and the small, and they do have legal rights. if you're in a car isn't and a woman's pregnant and her baby dies, you're -- this is homicide. you've committed a very serious crime. you killed a life. so this whole thing that is simple to woman's right to do what she wants with her own body. no. you have to deal with the fact -- you have to decide is there a real life there? and there is a real life there. i'm liable as a physician. if a woman comes in and is a week pregnant or nine months pregnant, if i do something wrong, rightfully so i can be liable for injuring the fetus. so if i give her the wrong medication, i'm liable for this. to pretend that life doesn't exist, that's like putting blinders on. and i don't talk a whole lot about it. but i've made the emphasis the other day that if you truly care about liberty, you to understand life. because how can i defend any individual's right to lead their own life as they choose and even do dumb things and drink raw milk or whatever they want to do, at the same time say that life is not precious? and we can throw away a life even if it weighs eight pounds because it's within the woman's body. i believe in property rights. i believe that a baby in a crib deserves protection, even though i honor property. and a house is our castle. but nobody, nobody would say oh, a woman after the baby's born we can kill it. and today we have this -- all these abortions. but if a young girl is in a desperate situation and she happens to deliver her baby and kills it, she is arrested immediately. but if she had done it a day before, there was no crime and the doctor gets paid money. even if you divorce this all from the law and enforcement of law, but morality. our society has to decide whether that is morally right or wrong in dealing with this. i have high respect for life. therefore i have high respect for liberty. and it's hard to separate the two. >> you've made your point very forcefully, as always. with lots of people who vehemently disagree with you. but that is the beauty of a democracy. and i appreciate you joining me. >> thank you. good to be with you. coming up, the man who once had hopes of his own white house run, former south carolina governor mark sanford. anananana] this...is the network. a living, breathing intelligence that's helping drive the future of business. in here, inventory can be taught to learn. ♪ machines have a voice. ♪ medical history follows you. it's the at&t network -- a network of possibilities... committed to delivering the most advanced mobile broadband experience to help move business... forward. ♪ discover aveeno positively radiant tinted moisturizers with scientifically proven soy complex and natural minerals. give you sheer coverage instantly, then go on to even skin tone in four weeks. aveeno tinted moisturizers. 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[ baby crying ] ben harper: ♪ what started as a whisper every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing. ♪ slowly turned into a scream ♪ there's an insurance company that does that, too. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? but not in my neighborhood. ♪ [ female announcer ] we're throwing away misperceptions about natural gas vehicles. more of the vehicles that fuel our lives use clean american natural gas today. it costs about 40 percent less than gasoline, so why aren't we using it even more? start a conversation about using more natural gas vehicles in your community. mark sanford is a man who knows the republican party from the inside, and he knows how fast things can change in politics. the he was once talked about as a presidential candidate. that is before his affair, his divorce and the departure from the governor's mansion. now after two years, mark sanford going public again. he joins me now. welcome. >> thank you. >> my obvious first question is why are you doing this interview? what would you hope to gain from this? >> i can't hammer nails for the rest of my life. i've been down at the farm you all were nice enough to visit you. get to the point where it's comfortable to be, it's time to start speaking out again on issues that i i've cared about for 20 years of my life. you don't invest 20 years of your politics that f you don't really, really care. and i care deeply. i'm very worried about the direction of our country. i think if we don't watch out, we could lose it. benjamin franklin's famous words were basically handing you a republic if you can keep it. and i think we're at a really, really precarious point, the likes of which people don't fully grasp or understand. >> in a way, you were the very first kind of leader of the tea party before it was formed into a proper revolutionary party. when you have seen what has happened to america, and you have seen the emergence of the tea party as a proper political force, do you feel a slight twinge of regret you're not at the forefront of this? >> you know, i don't think sh i don't believe there is a lot to gain from the would have beens or the should have beens of life there is an amazing and real fuel with the tea party that i don't think people fully grasp. i think a lot of people think that's about spending. but i think it's really about much, much deeper american values. one is fundamental angst about opportunity. you know, the beauty of the american system is that it provides opportunity. and there is this long-held belief that i did so well, my kids are going to do better than that, my grandkids are going to do better than that. i think the part of the fuel that has fuelled the tea party is people really calling that into question. i don't know if that's is true for my kids. i don't know if they're going to do better than i am. and i think the other part, and i saw this during the stimulus debate. i spoke out vociferously against the stimulus when it first came out. i was the first governor to formally reject it. what i saw then was people genuinely concerned about the issue of equity. the glue that holds us together as americans, as disparity as we might be is the belief it's a fair system. you work hard, you'll succeed or fair on the idea based on meritocacy. >> there is someone who has a beach house in the hamptons who is getting build a out. meanwhile my cousin who runs a little pizza shop, he ain't getting build a out there. is a genuine question about opportunity. >> do you agree with warren buffett when he said the tax system has to be reformed to hammer people like him, the super rich who are paying a disproportionate amount of tax compared to the guy on the street? >> i would say i absolutely believe this the notion of tax reform. we need either a fair tax or a flat tax, a much simpler form. i think that warren buffett was terribly misleading with what he said. i think at two different levels. one is, you know, he was basically looking at capital gains tax, 15%. what he is not including is the fact that he also owns the company. and so there is a corporate tax of 35%. we effectively have the highest corporate rate in the world. so you combine and you're about at 50%. he wasn't including the corporate tax. the other thing that is really misleading is berkshire hathaway, his company doesn't pay dividends. what is the tax on unrecognized gains in america? zero. he doesn't need the cash flow like his secretary or somebody else might. he can make millions and millions of dollars on a daily basis, get no tax because it's rating assets. >> which of the republicans at the moment -- we're seeing a clear pattern beginning to emerge, romney, bachmann, perry and so on. who do you think fundamentally has what it takes in the overall package to seriously challenge barack obama? >> i think that the primary system will winnow that out. >> what is your gut feeling? what would you say? >> you're trying to get me to pick a horse. >> i'm saying you're in the paddock, and these horses are being shown around. >> yeah. >> what is an early feeling you're getting for who could beat him. >> how about this. what i would say is i think there are a couple of attributes the american public is in search of. one is paul ryan's sort of technical expertise of the budget. a lot of time platitudes are talked about in terms of ooh, we're going to cut spending, or we're going to reform taxes. i think that the beauty of the ryan budget, whether you agree or disagree with it is it was very specific in nature. and i think we're at that point given the overall crisis that i see coming our way where in we need specifics. >> you would like to have a kind of hybrid of him and someone like chris christy, who i spent a day with. and i found him very impressive. but he made it pretty clear he wasn't going to run this time. do you believe him? do you think he is persuadable as we get through the next few months and we get to the proper primary, could you see him rallying to the cause of the party if no one has emerged by then that people don't think could beat obama? >> i'm listing attributes. whether it's him or rick perry. you go down the list, each one has their different attributes. i think the two things most need at this point given the fact that we've got $57 trillion in contingent liability in this country, given the fact that we have a real issue with competitiveness is real earnest plain spokenness on how bad our problem is. because the american public i think can handle it. but i think they need to be really educated and the plain facts need to be laid out in terms of how really desperate our situation is. >> presumably, you would lean more towards a tea party nominee than you would towards one of the more moderate type? >> absolutely, yes. >> so is michele bachmann the one in that case? is she the obvious person now beginning to capture enough of the public's imagination to potentially be that person? >> no. i don't think you could look at it that simplistically. i think that ron paul, who was just on, has a huge tea party backing. i think that rick perry has really excited folks with across both social and financial circles in terms of he is sort of a hybrid between the bachmann and perhaps romney. so i think that there are a couple different folks out there vying for a tea party. whatly say is whoever really captures i suspect will be the republican nominee. >> i don't want you to necessarily name someone if you're not ready to. but of those names, of the three, you know, which one if you had to put one in the race tomorrow? >> i'm not going to pick a horse. but i will say. let me go back to the reason i'm on this show, which is i think we're looking at a global depression coming our way. and i think our ability to survive as a republic will be determined by how we respond. historically, and i think thus far, we have gotten in essence prescription wrong. and if we continue to apply that wrong prescription, i think we'll see hyperinflation that could very well cause us to lose the republic. >> get a little break. when we come back, i want to take you back to the scandal that led to you not being center stage now, and get your feelings now with reflection on what happened. we'll never stop sharing our memories, or getting lost in a good book. we'll always cook dinner, and cheer for our favorite team. we'll still go to meetings, make home movies, and learn new things. but how we do all this, will never be the same. what if we designed an electric motorcycle? what if we turned trash into surfboards? whatever your what if is, the new sprint biz 360 has custom solutions to make it happen, including mobile payment processing, instant hot spots, and 4g devices like the motorola photon. so let's all keep asking the big what ifs. sprint business specialists can help you find the answers. sprint. america's favorite 4g network. trouble hearing on the phone? visit sprintrelay.com. there was so much destruction in the last chapter of my life that i really wanted to build from that. i wanted to construct something, and particularly i wanted to do something like that with my boys. so i think that there was, i don't know something of a healing process that went with building this and the other structures that marked my summer. the thing that i think anybody thinks about who has failed at some level, whether one fails in their marriage, whether one fails in finances, whether one fails in any chapter of life, which is, you know, god, how do you use me in the next chapter of life? will there be a next chapter? what can i do? what it is i can do to use the talents i have to some meaningful purpose and some good. >> a candid mark sanford last week at a private retreat where he lives now. mark, you've been kicked all over the place, publicly humiliated, trashed by the media, trashed by almost everybody. you know, you're public enemy number one in politics for that period. you have been followed by others. the cycle moves on. others fall down. they get kicked too. what was the experience like for you on a human level? because you're not the caricature that we all read about. you're the guy -- in fact, you were honest enough to say in an interview that you used to pick up papers and say you idiot, other people who had done what you had done. suddenly you're that guy. how does that feel? >> it's humbling. we were just speaking a moment ago, and i said to you very candidly that i've done thousands of interviews back through congress and through the governorship, and i was never one moment afraid. it was we could agree or disagree on an issue, but we were where we were. now as you step back out because i think i need to do my best as best i can in warning the country on what i think is coming our way if you don't change direction, you still walk out scared. i've never been scared before. but i'm a little frightened inside and i think it is because you go through that two-year process which was rather glaring. and you don't want to disappointment anybody. you know that you let a lot of people down. and there was a whole lot of anxiety that comes with an interview there for thinking on how you might let somebody down. and you don't want to do that. >> looking back on it, you're still with the woman that you left your wife for, an argentinean, maria belen chapur. proving i guess that this wasn't just a short-term fling. you didn't throw everything away for nothing. that there is a love story there. given that, do you feel great regret, or is that the wrong emotion to put to you? >> well, i think that i mean, anybody who has been married doesn't start at the beginning thinking boy, i hope i some day get divorced. i hope that some day the train comes off the track. so there's got to be regret there is something sacred about a family unit, about boys. i have four boys. you have some boys. and anything that brings harm to to your boys, you have genuine regret about. i think that part of the journey for me over the last couple of years has been, you know, first professionally, in the wake of the whole storm, you know, there is a question do you just quit and walk out of there and never see another camera again, which would have been by far the easiest thing to do. >> you didn't do. you stuck it out. >> yeah. and professionally, can we somehow make some good of this. because what people were telling me at the ground level was mark, you messed up. you disappointed us, but you finished strong. we tried as best we could and had actually the most productive legislative year that we had in all eight years during the last year. in a personal sense you hope you learn from it. >> what do you think you learned by it? >> i learned a lot. i never publicly judged, but privately i judged. i think we're all prone to do so. and you read the paper and indeed say loser, loser, idiot, moron. >> you voted for the impeachment of bill clinton over monica lewinsky. >> now you look at things and say by the grace of god, i'm going to work about the log in my own eye before i worry about the splinter in somebody else's. i've learned a lot about grace there is a phenomenal level of human grace out there which is a reminder of god's grace. >> how is the public? >> they're incredible. again, you know, people would come up and say look, you're human. you're going to not get it perfect. so i think it is true, as i was saying just in that clip a moment ago, cl it's a financial mishap, we're all going to make mistakes. an old-timer took me aside and said one of the keys is the only real mistake you make in life is the one you don't learn from. >> i learned a few weeks ago you have this extraordinary moment in -- i think in the street. a woman just came up to you and said can i give you a hug. you look like you need a hug. >> yeah, yeah. that was actually more than -- that was back in the middle of the storm where i thought i might be stoned to death if any woman saw me. i was in sumter, south carolina. and this big black woman was walking down the street and put her arms out and said you need a hug. i had little choice in the matter. she was bigger than i was. >> how did that make you feel? >> it was fabulous. i think we all need grace. and we all need love. and there is plenty of judgment to go around. and there is certainly a role by folks in the media and others to be played in getting things uncovered and rights wronged, or wrongs right. but i think there is an abiding need for human grace and love. and i got it that day on the street. and i've gotten it many times since then with people across my street. >> is it satisfying to you that the relationship has lasted with maria? you were hammered at the time you were having some sort of mid-life crisis. but this was actually a real love story. you fell in love. >> i did. i'm guilty of that. but it didn't take away from the fact that i handled a whole number of things wrong there have been consequences from that and that's something i've had to deal with and hopefully learn from. >> what would you do differently? >> a whole host of things, none of which are particularly productive in terms of my boys who might be watching this show. and i hope to respect that. >> would this thing have really made much difference? >> i would say a couple of different things. people tend to focus on what goes wrong at the time of an affair or another or whatever. but in reality, that's a long time coming. so really, if you go back ten years earlier, i with us doing things wrong in the marriage that caused things to get derailed. and i think that anybody out there, you know, ought to really think about this notion of fire proofing their marriage, first of all, by having their priorities right. i think as men, we tend at times to define ourselves by what we do. and i think that trying to impact the direction of our country is an incredibly important job. but it pales in comparison to what i now believe to be my first job which is to love god with all my heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. if you get that part as true north, a lot of the other is going to take care of itself. i would say, you know, that failed in terms of properly loving my wife. a lot of guys will complain my wife doesn't do this, my wife doesn't do that. the reality is there was some song back when i was in high school. if you want to get closer to me, you want me to get closer to me, get closer to me, something along those lines. and i think, you know, a guy took me aside. again, in the middle of the storm. i wish there was a school for this kind of stuff. my dad died, he got sick when i was in high school, died when i was in college. and you kind of figure it out as best you can. but i think i didn't properly love my wife. i think that, you know, fundamental to a woman, i'm not trying to be a shoefist in is security. if she gets that is happy and playful and encouraging. if she doesn't get, that she can be other things. and a guy needs respect. he may get a job. if he doesn't get a job, he may become a scoutmaster or a little league coach. if you get that dance right between the husband and wife, some really great things happen. if you get ate little off because the husband, the bible says the man has to love the wife as christ loved the church, isn't doing what he ought to be doing on that front, again, some things can go wrong. i would blame myself. in other words, the things i've learned, i said how do i be a better person going forward. i think there were a number of missteps from my end. >> having got it wrong in your marriage, do you feel like you have learned enough from that whole experience, and the bruising exposure and scandal to get it right now? >> i would hope so. >> are you happy in yourself now, do you think? >> oh, yeah. i said to a friend, i have probably have more to offer as a human being than i've ever had in my life. but i probably have a smaller canvas to paint on. and i accept that as a reality. i don't know where life would have gone, but it could well have been that i would have been in the presidential mix just because i cared deeply about these ideas and have long been talking about them. i can't control that part. all i can control now is, you know, what do you do going forward. i think that's the challenge of every one of our lives. >> going to take a short break and come back and talk to you about the life, the low-key life you've had since all this blew up. what have you been doing, what it's been like, emotionally, physically, getting to a stage now where you feel empowered enough to come back out and talk about it. [ male announcer ] it's a fact: your nutritional needs can go up when you're on the road to recovery. proper nutrition can help you get back on your feet. three out of four doctors recommend the ensure brand for extra nutrition. ensure clinical strength has revigor and thirteen grams of protein to protect, preserve, and promote muscle health. and immune balance to help support your immune system. ensure clinical strength... helping you to bounce back. ensure! nutrition in charge! a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. right now my special guest mark sanford. watching you there at your farm, south carolina. and pretty remote place to disappear, i guess. what was it like for you just to vanish from the public eye, get away from the eye of the storm and find yourself in this kind of sanctuary, if you like? was it easy? did you feel lonely? how would you describe the experience? >> fabulous. you know, it's a family farm. i grew up there. so all your sort of tom sawyer and huck finn adventures that you remember as a boy with your brothers and your sister were there. and so there are, you know, just an envelope, if you will, of inviting memories from your childhood. it's been a weird life. i get up early. i go for a swim in the river before sunrise. i watch the day come alive. i hammer and nails during the day. it's been therapeutic. >> at that moment as the sun comes up, you're on your own, you're watching the sun come up. you would have been in the old days getting ready for another busy day in politics, you know. in your head thinking you know what? i'm only a few steps away from a potential presidency run here. and now here you are on your own, out of that game, looking at the sun coming up. what are you thinking when you're there? >> i think that there is a tremendous value to the valleys of life. that the football team that loses on friday night probably thinks a whole lot more of what they might get right or what they might do differently than the team that won. so for me it has been cathartic to go out and build things. built a bridge with the boys. built a little sort of shed, built a little hut, if you want to call it that. it's been cathartic. i think -- i said to a friend at one point i had gone out with a backhoe in front of this little barn that i had built where there were some stumps, pulled the stumps out, put them to the side, and going to burn them. and i said the beauty of this is once it's done, it's not like the next legislative body is going to come back and put the stumps back in. it's kind of done. so it's been rewarding in that sense. >> unlike most politics, you can actually get things done and they stay done. >> and that's been nice. it's been really, really nice. to have the uncluttered time with the boys. i think one of the problems of political life is that you're gone so much. >> have you in an odd way had more time now to develop a better relationship with your sons than you may have done if you continued in the ever more punishing political world? >> they say so. they say oddly, because i get very sentimental, as i suspect divorced dads often do. and they're like dad, what are you talking about? we see you way more than we used to see you. no, no, no, you don't. no, you would have a speech, you would have a this, have a that. m marshall and i spent a week and a half together working on the first building. and it was magnificent father-son time. that part has been neat. i think the reflection is important. i think that, again, in the valleys of life, you do a whole lot more soul-searching and thinking than you do when you're going from mountaintop to mountaintop. >> who in your family have been the real rocks of support outside of your sons? >> i've redeveloped a really neat relationship with my sister. we had it a long time ago. but as you get busy with life, those things can sort of drift to the side. and we've developed a really neat relationship. my brother john and bill are both close. we took a neat trip together with the boys earlier this summer. so, you know, my mom is magnificent. just as i guess the case with any mom, unconditional. >> my mother has always been incredibly supportive of me through thick and thin. how did your mother react to the whole scandal? what did she say to you? >> i mean, the obvious in terms of i'm disappointed and here is why. but i think significantly, the but part, which is i still love you, and i love you unconditionally. >> which is a pretty powerful endorsement to have, isn't it? >> important one. >> let's take another short break. i suppose the obvious question when we come back is you're doing interviews again. you're very prominent in your political views now about what is going on. a lot of people thinking is this the start of the mark sanford comeback. the answer after the break. my name is marjorie reyes. i'm a chief warrant officer. i love the fact that quicken loans provides va loans. quicken loans understood all the details and guided me through every step of the process. i know wherever the military sends me, i can depend on quicken loans. while i took refuge from the pollen that made me sneeze. but with 24-hour zyrtec®, i get prescription strength relief from my worst allergy symptoms. so lily and i are back on the road again. with zyrtec® i can love the air®. is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose. new citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal. those are your lips with covergirl lip perfection. get beautiful color now... let the silk moisturizing complex give you more beautiful lips in 7 days. [ male announcer ] lip perfection. from easy, breezy, beautiful... covergirl. keeping them honest tonight. fresh off the victory from the iowa straw poll, michele bachmann seems to be running from her past statements on gays and lesbians. tonight how she is dodging the questions, all the while insisting she is not judging anyone. but is that what her past statements show? keeping her honest. also tonight, president obama on a three-day swing through midwest states. these campaign stops or a presidential bus tour? the white house says it's a listening tour to hear from americans about the economy. republicans say it's pure politics, not policy. but taxpayers are still footing part of the bill. so is he commander in chief or campaigner in chief? real politics ahead. and up close tonight, the night of sheer terror at the indiana state fair. concertgoers running for their lives. officials knew the bad weather was on the way. so how did this happen? an investigation underway. we'll bring you the details. this story in tonight's ridiculist.ridiculist. more with piers morgan in a moment. can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment's right. ♪ [ man ] tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. 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[ male announcer ] ask your doctor if cialis for daily use is right for you. for a 30-tablet free trial offer, go to cialis.com. mark sanford we got reaction on twitter tonight. people. some people criticizing you. i lived in columbia when mark sanford was governor. he's more human now than when he was governor. others saying, i'm impressed by his kander. others saying, is this the comeback? you must be tempted? >> no. my goal is, i want to begin the process of speaking out on things i've cared about for 20 years, that doesn't mean candy daisy, but that means at some level having a voice on the direction of this country. because i think we're at a gut check moment in terms of what comes next. a little known scottish historian studies history for the whole of his life. the quote attributed to him is that democracy can't exist as a permanent. it can only exist when the governors -- it's generally followed by dictatorship. the average age of the world's great civilizations have been 200 years. spehr unite fate to great courage. great courage to liberty. apathy to dependency. and from dependency back to bondage. if you look at where we are in terms of context, about 44% of all americans don't file tax returns about, 56% do. out of the 56% that do, 20% are net contributors to the system, and about 80% are net recipients. they may pay $3,000 in taxes, but they may get $12,000. >> if you had the power, what would you do to dramatically reform the tax system, which would make a real difference in reducing america's debt? >> i don't think it's a question of the tax system. i think it's spending. you look at the first 100 years of this country. >> they can't just be cutting spending, can they? >> yes. >> in some states you have to bring in more revenues as well, don't you? >> it never was a personal household, if all they did was cut back on all their spending but didn't increase any kind of revenue. >> let's go back to -- >> how you develop a domestic household budget. >> how much are you spending relative to how much you spent before. if you look at the first 100 years of this country's existence, we spent 3% of gdp, 40% was going to defense. this is the end of a 50-year push where we've really moved upward in terms of overall spending in this country. we're now 25, 28% of gdp. i would argue in thomas freeman's flat world for us to be really competitive, have you to compete with likes and a host of other places. being competitive -- and a bunch of other things is absolutely crucial. the cbo numbers right now are saying, we're going to move to about 33% of gdp. which is to say with all due respect to the mother countries, to europe, we're going to move to their way of growth. if you let the per capita income, we're at about 46,000, $44,000. if you look in europe, it's about 30. if you look around the world, it's closer to three, and china it's about nine. so you give up something as you begin to crowd out private investment and private capitalism. >> as you're speaking on this, i'm thinking this guy must be going back into politics. he's bored with his current circumstances. he's learned lessons. >> i have learned lessons that will last me the rest of my life. >> let's hold it there. anananan] this...is the network. a living, breathing intelligence that's helping drive the future of business. in here, inventory can be taught to learn. ♪ machines have a voice. ♪ medical history follows you. it's the at&t network -- a network of possibilities... committed to delivering the most advanced mobile broadband experience to help move business... forward. ♪ helps defends against occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health. >> the sinner and the sin, how do you feel about that? >> it's the challenge of faith and grace. >> do you have any plans to remarry? >> we'll see. >> that's not a denial. mr. governor? >> it's not an answer. >> it's a tantalizing. i would agree if you were a politician saying that about a policy, i would say it's definitely -- >> we'll see. >> would it be a nicending to the saga for you? >> i think so. >> do you have -- you haven't popped the question yet? >> you have? >> no, you're going into -- again that personal sphere that out of respect for my boys -- >> it wouldn't be the most shocking thing we -- >> we'll see. >> it's been a pleasure. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> mark