0 >> amazing he did that. thanks very much the ran out of time for the redick lust tonight. hope you join us later tonight for 360 later. piers morg"piers morgan live" s. see you later. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is "piers morgan live." welcome to the viewers in the united states and around the world. tonight, taking blame for the obama care website fiasco. secretary sebelius. >> let me sigh directly to the americans, you deserve better. i apologize. >> then her boss. >> there is no excuse for it, and i take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed asap. >> and joe biden couldn't even get on it. >> have you tried to get online yourself? >> no, actually, the president tried to get online and my daughter tried to get online. i did not because it was clear that i wasn't getting online. >> and hardly surprising given that right now breaking news. there it is live. the healthcare.gov website is down again. what an absolute fiasco. when it's up, will it be the cure they are hoping for? i'll talk to rice about how his party handled obama care and whether they are doing too much to avoid the country. when he tells glen beck about college education. >> to start your life 150 grand in the hole, 80 grand in the hole with your art history major or polly or mideast earn studies and not find work -- that's why you got a trillion dollars in debt. >> and for that, apparently, he's supposed to be the mad one. anyway, that's just for starters. mike sets the record straight live on this very show and also, the return of the great arsen yol hall. the great man is back wearing one of the coolest hats i think i've ever seen in my entire life. they are eating my grapes. wait, wait, those are my grapes. the big story, the i'm sorry tour for the obama care fiasco. the president apologized and joe biden and sebelius, everyone apologizing but while secretary sebelius was apologizing, she was talking about the rollout disaster, of course, the health care website she was apologizing about was crashing, almost comical. at the same time the president came at the republicans for trying to destroy his law. >> health care is complicated and very personal and easy to scare folks, and it's no surprise that some of the same folks trying to scar people now are the same folks trying to sink the affordable care act from the beginning joining me now, the chairman of the republican national committee. you guy haves gone from being the villains of the nation two weeks ago to suddenly the heroes. how on earth has this happened? >> well, it's not for -- it's not a good result as far as i think something very bad for the american people, piers. and so look, the problem is not just the website, you know, that is a mess and people can't sign up, but now we're getting into really some bad things that are affecting people's lives and, you know, when millions of people are being asked to sign on to a system that they can't sign on to and then they are also getting notices by the hundreds of thousands that their health care is being dropped and then they are finding out that they will pay more money, you know, it's a lot of broken promises from the president and it's terrible for the american people. it's just -- it's -- i think it's a crisis that we have to address immediately. >> does the shambles of what is going on in any way justify shutting down the government? >> you know, i think as time goes by, i think more and more people are going to see that fighting over the implantation of a law that would be terrible for the american people is worth it, and so this is going to require legislative action and you are going to see democrats coming to the table because they will be shamed into admitting that the president lied and that it's a law that would be a disaster for the american people, and a lot of these democrats want to try to get ree lengted so they will come back to the table. >> did the president, when he kept reassuring everybody in all the videos that we've seen replayed again and again and again from numerous events, the state of the union, when he promised people if you like your insurance, if you like your doctor, you can keep both. did he tell the american people repeatedly a bare faced lie in your eyes? >> well, i mean, either he lied to the american people or he's so grossly negligent in doing his job that it's a kin to a lie, piers. there is a point in the law where if you don't intentionally lie but you're so grossly negligent, it's about the same thing. here is the problem, they knew in the fine print in this law, someone knew that if your insurance coverage changed between 2009 and where we sit today in 2013, you would be dropped. in other words, that grandfather clause the president kept referring to where he said if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance. if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. the problem is either he knew that was a lie or he's a by stander president or so aloof to the detail that she should be aware of that look, his confidence is calmed into question here on this law, whether it be the nsa not knowing what is going on there, not knowing what is going on in october, i think the american people have had it and i think we'll be proven correct in this fight as time goes by. >> should kathleen sebelius resign or be fired over this, given she's now said that she wants to be held personally accountable? >> well, i think the honorable thing to do in a case like this, when you've been given the honor and privilege to serve as a secretary, cabinet secretary in the united states for any president, i think there is a certain amount of honor and dignity in saying look, this is a big mess. i'm at the center of it. i'm going to resign. that's what i think normal honorable people do in cases like this. but at the -- >> wouldn't you rather keep her there? >> well, that's a -- you know, listen, that's an interesting question because it also goes to the political answer, to. would i rather let the exchanges go through and show the american people what a headache this is? the answer politically, yeah, that may make sense politically but the problem and reality is this is so bad and hurtful to the american people, even a political positive like that is such a negative we would never wish that on the american people. it's terrible. that's why we want it to be put on hold. >> of course you wouldn't, that's why you shut down the government. let's just get to a little crystal ball gazing here. let's get to like a year down the road, and miraculously the white house has turned this around. the exchanges are working, tens of millions of americans have signed up to it and the whole thing appears to be working despite all these hiccups and glitches. would you then still be doing all in your power to dismantle or it accept you know what? we tried again,, and we failed again. >> so what you're saying is millions of people sign up, they don't lose insurance, which they already are by millions already today and doctors are going to honor their -- they will stay on this program, which 40% said they aren't sure they are. all that in fantasy land doesn't happen and everybody is happy and premiums are lower, great. that would be a great program. that's not what is going to happen, piers, and you're seeing it with a few days on the market. where we're at, it's going to get worse. this is where the reality is. >> i want to play you a clip with bill last night ask we talked about senator cruz. let's listen to what he has to say. >> i think he has an absolute shot at the nomination. he's definitely going to be the favorite of the people who vote in republican primaries. i mean, we saw what it looked like last time and the time before but the problem with the republican primaries last time for them is that they didn't have a ted cruz in there. ted cruz is a harvard educated lawyer. he's not a dummy. >> that's not exactly a ringing endorsement but pretty well near it from bill maher. do not under estimate this guy. can you see a position where ted cruz is your party's nominee to be president? >> i don't know who is going to be the nominee, piers. i think we'll have a great bench, though. if you look at the young stars in our party that are rising from governors to senators and congressmen and former vp nominees. i think we'll have a very good bench. the one thing you have is a unanimous position we need to delay and dismantle obama care and that position of delaying and dismantling obama care as days and weeks go by is a stronger and stronger position for us to have in this party, and i think it will be the determining fact tore in 2014 and that's eye you'll see democrats caving very soon ask do whatever they can to stop this thing from being further implemented. just wait and see but that's what is going to happen. >> good to talk to you, thank you very much. >> thank you, piers. joining me now to debate this left to right, representative franks subcommittee on health and marsha blackburn, the vice chair of the house energy and commerce committee. thank you to both of you. what did you make of what ryan said there? >> it's a bunch of nonsense. the affordable care act is working. more and more people are signing up every day. you know, preexisting conditions as a basis for health care have been apologize accomplished. >> the website is down as i'm speaking to you. how can you not -- >> the website -- >> and litigated fiasco? >> i think that's a bit of an over statement. look, the website is functioning three -- as of last week, three out of ten people were actually able to enroll and every day you'll see improvements. secretary sebelius testified by today by the end of november it should be at 100%. remember, you don't have to go to the website. people sign up every day by calling 800 numbers and go through an insurance agent and nonprofits, last week, you know, i was with people at our foot bank signing up. so, you know, the affordable care act is not the website -- >> right, but it's not -- if it's not been a fiasco, why is everyone from the presidents to secretary sebelius to joe biden coming up to apologize to the american people? >> of course they have to fix the website. there is no question to that. the website is only part of the way to sign up. there are many other ways to sign up, and there is tremendous interest in this, and you see more and more people enrolling every day and people are eligible for expanded medicaid and the bottom line is that, you know, people can get a better policy at a more affordable price than they were able to before. >> congressman blackburn, let me ask you about this because you were pretty heated today. i want to play a clip from you in action because it was quite impressive. let's listen to this. >> some people like to drive a ford and not a ferrara and some people like to drink from a red solo cup, not a crystal stem. your taking away choice. >> i have a red solo cup and i have a crystal stem. there they are. clear evidence that some of us do. let's talk seriously about this because it's clearly been a disastrous start to all this but what happens as i said to ryan preevis, if within a few weeks this is all up and running properly and actually is popular, aren't you guys going to look silly come april had the it seemed to be terrific and working? >> i have to tell you, you never look silly when you defend the american people and the pocketbook. to say they wasted hundreds of millions of dollars building a website that does not work and while we've had them under oath, piers, we've asked the contractors and the secretary for an accounting of everything past, present and future that they are spending on this website. and here is a big part of the problem, not only does the website work so no, they can't get to that but those people that are signing up are primarily signing up for medicaid. medicaid already has a 43 trillion dollar unfunded liebtty against it. so we've made the spending problems worse. then also, you have to look at the fact that those that are signing up with paper, if you will, their information is going into an online repost tory and we already had it hacked. your own network reported on a hacker who got in and removed all this information, person identifying information on people that had signed up. >> well he was lucky -- >> [ overlapping speakers ] >> okay -- >> [ overlapping speakers ] >> let me jump in and ask -- >> yeah. >> let me jump in and ask -- >> what is -- >> this question -- >> alternative -- >> no, no, i'm asking you a question, sir, which is this. >> sure. >> when the president repeatedly stood up and told the american people, if you want to keep your doctor or your plan, you can do that with no qualifications to it, none of this if it's not quite good enough and gets changed but boldly telling people, if you want to keep your doctor or your plan you can, that was just a lie, wasn't it? a complete -- >> of course it was not a lie, piers. just to the contrary that people can keep their plans. plans are grandfathered. if the insurance companies want to offer a lousy -- if insurance companies want to continue to offer lousy plans that have good coverage and cost a lot of money to the taxpayer or to the insured they can. what is happening -- >> what percentage of people who want to keep their plan or their doctor as per the president's promise -- >> oh, probably over 90%. remember, most people get their insurance through their employer and continue to get that. >> right, so just to clarify, just to clarify, when people say it could be as many as 50 or 60% may not be able to do that, you're saying no, that's nonsense. >> it's nonsense. >> is that right? >> look, yeah, can i answer the question? look, the majority of people, probably 80 or 90% continue to get insurance through their employer and obviously the employer continues to offer it and they can keep it. what the president was talking about it and what congresswoman blackburn is talking about is the individual market. you can keep your plan in the individual market, too, if the inas you were rans wants to continue to sell it. the insurance companies realize a lot of the plans are lousy, almost a scam and so they can't sell them anymore because people won't buy them because now obama care -- >> so why didn't the president just say that? why didn't he just say rather than making this bold promise -- >> because -- >> plan -- >> [ overlapping speakers ] >> we have to look at this from a practical point of view. >> oh, please, piers -- >> what about telling the truth? >> insurance policy -- >> what about telling the american people -- >> we're offering a good insurance policy at an affordable price. if marsha says i want to keep a lousy plan that's a scam, nobody is going to buy it. >> oh, piers, please let me respond to this. >> policies and not the president cancelling it, it's the insurance company because there are scam policies and not going to sell them anymore. people -- >> final -- >> yes. >> okay. final word to congressman blackburn, i wouldn't be so cheeky to call you marsha. >> thank you. what we know is that their numbers don't work and individuals have been able to buy insurance or employers able to offer insurance that suited the needs of families, and they have been pleased with their insurance, and to be so insulting to people to say oh, the inas you were rans you've had is a scam, the president should never have gone out and said that and continued to say it and if, as nbc news reported, they knew this three years ago that was not a truthful statement -- >> if you want to go buy a scam policy, you can but nobody is going to buy. >> frank, you need to stop that. that is inappropriate and insulting to people -- >> [ overlapping speakers ] >> if you move the goalpost any further, they will literally be off the field. let's just move on. thank you both very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you so very much. >> as the excuses get more ludicrous. the actor and comedian joins me and the man knows how to get a dirty job right, mike row. >> a lot of people look at that and go mike is against college education. i'm not against a college education. i'm against debt. i'm -- that's the only four letter word in my family. americans take care of business. they always have. they always will. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one on one. to help you retire your way... with confidence. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach. help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.