0 wireless is limitless. this is "piers morgan live." welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. dzhokhar tsarnaev should be tortured to save more lives. his initial court appearance was today in his hospital room, he could only speak one work, no, when asked if he could afford an attorney. he now has a public attorney, he is mentally competent and lucid. degree development for the investigators, he is able to cooperate and he appears to be listed. what does he come up with today? >> most important and the national security scope is the fact that he is apparently telling officials and this is from a government source that it was just he and his brother, that there was nobody else involved, that there was no foreign entity telling them what to do or communicating with them in any way. in effect, they were virtual self jihadists, he has said his brother was the ringleader of all of us. but like you said, there really are going to need to check everything and they have been. they have them all along checking who they talk with, what kind of communications they have their e-mails. trying to figure out not only if they were self radicalized but how, which websites did they go to, who did they listen to, what takes did they have. it seems to go with what the investigators have been telling us this week that they believe that this entire plot was perpetrated by two brothers, one of samizdat and one of them is now in custody in a hospital here in boston. >> this information about getting out of him, can these is in a criminal case against him? >> based on a complaint that was filed in federal court that we got today, i don't know how much of that they will need. we don't know when exactly the information that he gave to them was given. we really don't know how it was given, was it written down, just yes and no answers he was able to not or blank or turned his head. if it was given prior to the reading of his miranda rights, it would probably be unlikely they would use that against him in court. if it was used voluntarily afterwards, likely he would. about the fact he has lawyered up, most likely we could send the information probably came prior to his reading of the miranda rights. we don't know that right now. >> thank you very much indeed. an extraordinary court session took place inside his hospital room. a transcript of that hearing tonight that tells us about the accused bomber and the case. jason, tell us what happens, it is fascinating. >> it really is and it is an nine page transcript we got hold of. what i can tell you is this proceeding lasted about ten or 15 minutes, started about 11:30 this morning. all of the key figures came into the hospital room and all of them introduce themselves. you had the u.s. judge there and attorneys from both sides. a court reporter there as well. and everyone present wanted to make sure that he knew exactly what was going on, know about the charges that he is facing. let me read you some of the key sections from the transcript. it starts out saying i am the magistrate judge and this hearing is your initial appearance before the court. we are here because you have been charged in a federal criminal complaint. at this hearing i will advise you of your constitutional and legal rights and i will tell you about the charges against you and the penalties that the court could impose if you are found guilty. if you have been charged, you have been charged with a weapon of mass destruction and in violation of 18, united states code, section 2322, and malicious destruction of property resulting in death. in violation of 18, united states code, section 844. the death penalty, if he is convicted, then the judge goes on to say is that anytime i see something you do not understand, interrupt me and say so. is that clear? and then the defendant not. the court then goes on to say all right. i know the defendant has not affirmatively. as a first dip in the seering i will tell you about your constitutional rights. you have the right under the constitution of the united states to remain silent. in a statement may be used against you in a court of law and have the right not to have your all the words used against you. you may consult with an attorney prior to any questioning and you may have the attorney present during questioning. during the entire proceeding, the only time we actually heard the defendant speak was when the subject came up about an attorney kurt the judge says to you understand i have said everything to you about your right to remain silent and there comes a not. and the defendant says no, the court says let the record reflect that i believe the defendant has said no. once again as you say, the court also answer to the record that he was mentally competent and he also appeared to be listed despite his injuries. >> how much more can they get out of him? how long can they talk to him? is there any legal limit or can this go on? >> it can't go on. normally what happens is the next legal step will be the arraignment. during the arraignment that is when he is formally charged and also remember even though he is looking at the charges of using a weapon of mass destruction there are other charges he could be faced with as well and will likely face in the next coming days. obviously, charges relating to the officer, the carjacking, things of this matter could be presented within the next few days but the next legal step, that is going to be the iran and. where he is formally charged and that usually happens within ten days of the first appearance. >> thank you. this raises questions about the law and how someone should be treated. the republican state senator is abdicating torturing him as that could save lives. >> welcome to you. you tweeted this, you said in custody, who would use torture on hand to save more live? do you still believe that? >> at the end of the day, i think you interview lot of politicians. a lot of politicians are full of fear and scared to say what they feel. i say for a lot of americans if we could believe or we could save evil one more american life, they would use this, they would use every tool at their disposal to do so. >> he is an american citizen. dzhokhar tsarnaev. key committed this crime in boston and he will be tried in a u.s. civilian criminal court system care our you going to torture him? >> you were talking to a guy that supports the death penalty for cop killers, terror is. >> how would you torture and? >> i am talking about me. if you want to talk to the president of the united states about his policy. >> you can ask in. >> i enders stand. if you put me in the ramp with any of them, i am telling you what i would do. >> i understand. if you talk torture on an american citizen for doing a domestic crime in america, you are crossing a rubicon. >> to answer your question, what would you do if you're given the opportunity? you have 30 minutes in the room, what would you do? would you play cards? >> let me put it to you. >> if you that this guy before he killed these people and turned people into amputees, what would you do? this man killed innocent men, women and children. what would you do? you get paid for it. >> you are on my show because she tweeted this to the world. your behavior so far is really offensive. >> you don't like it when you don't have another ball and you can treat like a tower? the reality is these men killed innocent men, women and children and as a red letter american, i say it out there if it would save an innocent life would not torture him. i stand firmly that i would. >> here's the point i am making to you. do you realize that if you torture this man, why you are facing an endorsing this that torture of an american citizen committing a domestic crime inside america. u.s. a politician want to bring that and as a standard matter of practice in your country. yes or not? >> i am saying that as an individual. >> yes or no? >> if given the opportunity to be in a row with somebody like obama bin laden, it would be me and him and a baseball bat. if i want to be macho, i challenge you to an arm wrestling contest. i am telling you how i feel. 100 times over, i will give you the same answer. >> if we could keep this as simple as possible, quite difficult currently. this will change everything if you start to torture american citizens for committing domestic crimes inside america. am i wrong? >> you are not wrong. im as red blooded american as anybody and i go back to thomas jefferson who wanted to change the fifth amendment, which has complicated language about self-incrimination. he wanted an outright vote against torture under all circumstances. torture is unconstitutional, illegal, in violation of every international treaty. should never under any circumstances be used. where i agree with him and said it would be used if we had a ticking bomb terrorist case. if we actually had a situation where the choice was between letting the bomb go off and killing thousands of people or torturing somebody, every president what allow, even this president, would not stop torture from occurring if that could save many, many lives. >> he kept guantanamo bay open, originally having said he would close it. >> we know the prime minister of australia said he would do it. very many political figures given that choice. that choice almost never presents itself certainly in a case like this where recaptured two people. no evidence it goes beyond this. the use of torture in a situation like this is absurd and unacceptable. >> if you open it up, the theatrics is good and did is what it is. you did open up the shows saying the senator asks for torture. the tweet was specific. if it would save american lives. if you could imagine, if you could have been with them and stop them and torture what have worked. could it have been effective? certainly. >> let's take a break. the mine sting for that? you have had a lot to say. let's talk a little more after the break. we will be back with this after the break. man: how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your family's future? we'll help you get there.