We are not out of this yet. I hope not, but we very well might start seeing increases in deaths. Announcer this is new day, with Alisyn Camerota and john berman. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is new day. Its tuesday, september 29th, 6 00 here in new york. And we are now just hours away from what could be a defining moment in the president ial campaign. And honestly, a defining moment for the nation. This is not hyperbole. The first president ial debate comes at a time when 205,072 americans have died from coronavirus. What could be more important than that . What could be more defining as a country than how we choose to address that . There are other matters also rising to the forefront. Again, youre looking at live pictures of the debate hall in ohio. These questions at the forefront now involve the president s taxes in these giant revelations from the New York Times that he paid just, yes, 750, in federal income taxes. Have you updated that graphic from yesterday . The point is no, because its the same. Its the same 750 he paid in income taxes at a time the average filer pays 12,000. Concerns around National Security risks around the 421 million that he owes coming due in the next few years. Were also in for several hours of expectation manipulation now. This is the bizarre quadrennial charade, when each campaign assures that the other is such a terrific debater in order to set expectations. So be warned. Also breaking overnight, Vice President pences former top aide confirming to cnn that white house officials pressured the cdc to play down the risks to children and their families in reopening schools. This was an effort, you know, at times, where i would get blindsided, where there would be junior staffers being tasked to find different data for charts that would show that the virus wasnt as bad for certain populations, ages or demographics. Well talk to olivia troy more about that later in the program. This morning, 23 states are seeing new cases rise. And overnight, the global death toll from coronavirus surpassed 1 Million People. So how will President Trump explain his handling of the pandemic . And his shockingly low tax payments on the debate stage tonight . Cnns jessica dean is live at the debate hall in cleveland with our top story. Good morning, jessica. Reporter good morning to you, alisyn. Yes, inside this debate hall just a few hours, both men will be on the stage behind me meeting for the first time on stage for their or meeting for the first time during this election, this general election campaign. Its a very different kind of debate. Let me walk you through some of the steps. Typically, wed have 900 people in here. Were expected to have just 60 to 70, because of covid19 precautions. Everyone in here will have been tested for covid before coming inside. There will be no handshake between President Trump and Vice President biden. Typically, the candidates would shake hands before a debate. All of this because of the coronavirus and the precautions that are being taken to make sure everyone stays safe at this debate. Now, in terms of preparation, we know that President Trump has really drifted away from any sort of formal preparation, hes not one for formally preparing for debates, he sees his press conferences as kind of training and he says that hes had Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani even stepping in as joe biden, but not really in a full mock debate. But he has telegraphed that there will likely be personal attacks towards joe biden tonight. As for joe biden, we know he started his debate preps in the last few weeks with briefing books, with gatherings with small aides, kind of talking over policy that expanded over last weekend to really full debate preparation, where they did do mock debates, though im told he really prefers to have aides pepper him with rapidfire questions. But they are also preparing for personal attacks from President Trump. As one of his senior Staff Members said on our air over the weekend, hes not running for fact checker in chief, is what Kate Bedingfield said on cnn. They are going to try instead for joe biden to continue to bring the conversation back to issues that weve heard him talk about time and time again on the campaign trail, alisyn, and that is the coronavirus pandemic and the ensuing economic crisis. And really lay that at Donald Trumps feet. Well see how it all goes. And john mentioned expectation setting. President trump has been putting the bar pretty low for joe biden for a while now. His campaign right to up the bar. Bidens people for their part saying that really they dont know how much of a difference this debate is going to make in terms of changing public opinion. We will see. Alisyn . Jessica, thank you for setting the table for all of that. So the New York Times published its second installment of the reporting on President Trumps taxes. This one details how the reality show, the apprentice, rescued mr. Trump financially and created the false image of a successful businessman. As concerns grow this morning about President Trumps massive debt, hundreds of millions of dollars could pose a National Security threat. Cnns joe johns is live for us at the white house with more. What have you learned, joe . Yeah, alisyn. This debate is just hours away and theres really a cloud hanging over it due to this New York Times reporting. The president and his team have taken to calling this a hit job, a hit piece. But theyre probably going to have to come up with ways to address the issues more substantively at the debate tonight. The fallout over President Trumps finances intensifying this morning, after a New York Times investigation said trump paid no federal income taxes in 10 of the 15 years before he became president because he reported losing more money than he made. And that he only paid 750 in federal income taxes in both 2016 and 2017. Its fake news. Its totally fake news. Made up. I paid a lot and i paid a lot of state income taxes, too. Reporter the president took no questions about his taxes monday, but his team stepped in throughout the day, providing his defense. The president s attorney stated it was millions of dollars in taxes, but he didnt even have a chance to review he didnt even have a chance to review the documents. Weve seen this play out before, where there was a hit piece about the president s taxes, just before a debate, an inaccurate one, at that. Reporter democrats like Vice President ial nominee Kamala Harris taking aim at the amount, or lack thereof, of trumps tax payments. Youve got people were doing gods work to protect and lift us up paying more in taxes than the selfprofessed billionaire . Its inexcusable. And its just completely, pay te patently unfair. Reporter and on the more than 350 million of loans the president is personally responsible for that will become due over the next few years for me, this is a National Security question. This president is the commander in chief. He has exposure to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. To whom . The public has a right to know. Reporter on the eve of the first debate, trump attempted to turn the focus to his Coronavirus Response with this announcement from the rose garden. Today, im pleased to report that we are announcing our plan to distribute 150 million abbott rapid point of care tests in the coming weeks. Very, very soon. Reporter and continued his downplaying of the pandemic. Tremendous progress is being made and i say and ill say it all the time, were rounding the corner. Reporter trumps words, despite the fact that over 205,000 people have died from the coronavirus in the United States. Health experts warn the u. S. Is far from rounding the corner with the pandemic. There are states that are starting to show uptick in cases and even some increase in hospitalizations in some states. And i hope not, but we very well might start seeing increases in deaths. Reporter so far, the president s response has been contradictory. At first, he said the report was false. Then he says it was information that it was illegally obtained. So which is it . The president could clear this up pretty quickly and set the record straight by releasing his tax returns on his own, but the past practice is any indication, dont hold your breath. John, back to you. Joe, hes done everything on earth to keep the public from seeing those taxes, including appealing cases all the way up to the Supreme Court. So dont hold your breath is an understatement of understatements. Great to have you here and safe with us this morning, joe. Thank you very much. Joining us now, two preeminent political commentators. Scott jennings, a former special assistant at george w. Bush and paul begala, a democratic strategist. Gentlemen, thank you both for being with us on this momentous day. On this defining day. This is the first president ial debate. Theres one thing we know, which is that the first debates tend to be the most important, paul. So as he takes this debate stage tonight, what does joe biden need to do . Beating an incumbent is not easy. You did it when you were on the Clinton Campaign in 92, but what does joe biden need to do tonight . He needs an economic case. I think the country is ready to fire trump. And joes going take his shots, im sure, at trump, and thats fine, thats good. But more importantly, hes got to make a case at why hes going to do a better job, especially on the economy. And this tax story allows him to do this. As biden likes to say, this is scranton versus park avenue. Thats a good, simple, populist case. He can make that argument that the system is stacked against working people in places like scranton and in favor of billionaires on park avenue or fifth avenue or wherever his stupid condo is. Its fifth avenue, and i dont know the intelligence level of the condo at all. But as a matter of fact, it is on fifth avenue. Ill take bermans bait and go with this line of. So, scott, what does President Trump need to do tonight . Well, i think a couple of things. Like paul, i think a discussion on the economy is where thats the most Fertile Ground from which trump can fight. In order to do that, you have to be laser focused on pivoting to that every time. You cant get baited into going down every rabbit hole, where you wind up relitigating all of the things that wouldnt speak to the future of the country, right . Litigating your taxes, litigating coronavirus in the past, which i suspect biden will try to do. So if youre trump, all of those topics, you have to turn it to a conversation to the future. I noticed in one of the National Polls this weekend, that trump had popped up to a 46 41 . That suggests to me theres a cohort of voters that say, i like what trump is doing, but im not going to reelect him. If i were trump, even though there will be tens of millions of people watching, maybe 100 Million People watching tonight, i would be thinking about that group. People who have some affinity for my policies, but are nervous about my reelection. Though would be the easiest people to recapture with messaging and debate. Paul, you know, right next to you or right next to us on the screen are the numbers from the pandemic, which are oppressive, to see. To see 205,000 americans dead is a stunning sight. So what impact will that have on the events tonight . How much should joe biden lean into that . Its a catastrophe. And it has ended the era of trump succeeding at making politics showbiz for ugly people. Its not spectacle anymore. This is your life. And usually in a campaign, the closing days, politicians say that. Its very important, its very important. We know that now. This is a lifeanddeath matter. And to remind voters that as people were dying, trump was lying he was telling his fellow ivy league elite, bob woodward, oh, be careful, this stuff is really deadly. He was telling his supporters and the rest of us, its a hoax, its not deadly. Joe needs to put mr. Trump on trial for that 205,072 americans dead. And thats catastrophic. It also comes at a time when plp trump is in court, forcing through this new appointee to the Supreme Court in order to take away your rights to health care and take away your rights to preexisting conditions. One week he is suing to take away our rights to preexisting conditions in the middle of a pandemic, take our health care in the middle of a pandemic. Biden needs to drive that home and im quite sure he will. Scott, in the past, as youll remember President Trump said in that axios interview, it is what it is. So tonight, does he change his tone about all of that . I think two things are important on this for trump. Number one, the cohort of voters that i think hes suffering inside the most is actually seniors. The polling all shows that hes softer with seniors this time around than he was against hillary clinton. They dont hate joe biden the way they hated hillary clinton. And they are softer on trump. And i think it might be because they perceive he doesnt take their health as seriously on the pandemic as he ought to, because seniors have obviously come to understand, you know, theyre disproportionately likely to die from this. What they havent heard trump say is, look, i get it, i am looking out for you, i understand that youre at risk. So on that front, he needs to talk to the senior citizens, and say he understands theyre at risk and is fighting for them. Thats number one. Number two, he has to shift the conversation forward and say, look, whats done is done, we are where we are, it is tragic, and what americans should be asking is, how are we going to look for the next four years on an economic recovery. And i have proven that i can recover an economy, because i did it, and i recovered from joe biden and barack obama who had slow growth, and slow recovery from their during their eight years. Thats where he would want to pivot and move. What you cant do is get trapped in the rabbit hole, where a lot of incumbent president s do this, as paul knows, they get trapped, relitigating their stuff in the past and they forget about to move the conversation to the future. And joe biden has that risk, too. He often likes to relitigate things that happened while he was Vice President or senator, from any number of decades. Paul, talk about the theatrics here. How much should each candidate get into that . Does joe biden get personal . Does joe biden responsible, if he is attacked from President Trump . I think the best debate coach for joe biden tonight is going to be mohammad ali. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Stick and move, joe, stick and move. Dont get wrapped up in mud wrestling with this guy. But he does need to take his shots. And god knows theres plenty of shots to take. But the key move for biden and that im going to be looking for is the pivot. The president will attack joe personally and will attack joes family, because hathats the ki of animal he is. Joe needs to not to defend his own family, he needs to defend your family. He needs to say, look, my family will be fine, donald, your family will be fine, the question is, will the American Family be fine . There are 205,072 American Families tonight that have an empty place at the dinner table because of what you didnt failed to do. What about the families of the fallen who you called losers and suckers and insulted . What about the families of the troops who have bounties put on their head by your buddy Vladimir Putin and you have done nothing to protect them . What about the American Families, every one of which pays more taxes than you do . Thats the turn hes got to do. It writes itself, if you get it in your head that youve got to be to change my metaphor, like a torador. Let him come and stick him as he comes. Those metaphors ate up some time. We only have ten seconds left. In times of Donald Trumps taxes, you say that if you were advising joe biden, you would have him do something sort of performtive, like, oh, i hear youre in some financial trouble, heres a check for 750. First of all, i speak from the home of mohammad ali this morning. Number two, yes, i think theres way to stunt this, walk up with a check and say, i heard you were having money troubles, friend, because i think it would define the debate, but it would also cause Donald Trumps head to explode, of course. Thats the kind of moment no one would forget. Well see if either candidate has the nimbleness to pull Something Like that off. Really interesting, thank you very much, guys. Weve been talking about it. And i have a chart here right now. This is the huge amount of money that President Trump owes according to the New York Times. 421 million, 300 million of it due in just the next few years. There are those saying this is a National Security risk. 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Developing this morning, more questions about President Trumps avoidance of paying federal taxes and his staggering 421 million worth of debt. Joining us now, trump biographer, tim obrien. Tim, always great to see you. Can we just talk about the debt . Lets just start with the debt. Because the New York Times, you know, theres all of these questions of, who does he owe money to. This would cause a National Security threat, obviously, in a million different ways, but the New York Times does spell out some of who he owes this money to. Heres that graph. He has huge balances on loans soon to come due from Deutsche Bank, including 160 million on his Washington Hotel in the Old Post Office building and 148 million on the doral golf resort. Neither of those businesses is turning a profit. Is that the answer to who he owes all of this to . I think its a big part of the answer. And some of this, a good portion of this was already publicly known for the times report came out. The president s required to file a personal Financial Disclosure or pfd annually. He filed the first one, i think, in 2018. And it detailed some of the Deutsche Bank, a big portion of these, i think around 300 million, as far back as 2018. Rush choma at mother jones did a very extensive look at his debt over the summer, got close, a little bit higher than the times number. And i actually think the times number overall is low. Im not sure if they were only talking about his shortterm debt, but trump yoowes in exces of 1 billion. Actually, his debt burden is much larger than i think even the times has calculated. Explain that a little bit, we are going with that 421 million, so how do you know its 1 billion . Those are amounts that are publicly available in publicly available documents on mortgages hes taken out against various properties. Its unfortunate that Dan Alexander is not here with us this morning. He did a wonderful accounting of this the night that times story came out, just tallying trumps debts against all of his assets. I think the number dan came up with was around 1. 1 billion. Im very comfortable with that being the number. I think wherever we land on what the number is, i think this thing to stay focused on is, can trump actually service that debt . If you think of a household that has Credit Card Debt and mortgage debt and an income from a job, they have to make sure those things match up. And one of the things thats always been true of donald trump is he has this voracious appetite to consume far more debt than he often can handle. And i think hes in a situation now where the businesses he runs are driving into the maw of the coronavirus pandemic. Theyre going to throw off less cash. It could be harder for him to sell some of those things, to raise money if he needs it, it could be harder for him to borrow against those. Hes already borrowed against some of his trophy properties, like trump tower and elsewhere. And he could be in a bit of a bind. There was a lot of, i think, chatter yesterday on social and elsewhere that donald trump is officially broke. And i think that thats premature. I dont think thats the case right now. But it gets to this issue of National Security that you raised. And the reason it gets to National Security is because when you owe hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars, it makes you vulnerable. It makes you susceptible, intelligence agencies are worried, to all forms of suggestion, to all forms of enticements. Thats the vulnerability. There have been questions about Deutsche Bank and Deutsche Banks involvements with various foreign entities. That is a legitimate open question. But the reason its a National Security risk and would be for anyone applying for a federal job on a security screening is that debt is a giant red flag. Alarm bells go flashing when you have a lot of debt, it makes you vulnerable, tim. Is that right . Thats completely right. As it is for, you know, anyone who owes debts to someone else is under that other person or entitys influence. Deutsche bank is particularly problematic, because its had a troubled history in recent years with Money Laundering issues, with bid rigging in financial markets. It has an operation in the u. S. , the federal regulatory trigger lates deutsc industry regulates Deutsche Bank. Thats a problem, because trumps a member of that process and a member of the bank. I think this has been one of the larger and more Dangerous Things hanging over the Trump Administration from the second he took office. The president of the United States is exempt from a lot of conflicts of interest laws that govern the behavior of other federal officials. I think the framers of the constitution and legislators since then havent wanted to sort of hamstring a president , because a president touches so many issues, that you couldnt actually come up with a conflict of interest law that wouldnt potentially disable the president s policy making ability. However, the framers never anticipated wed have someone roll into the oval office encumbered with all of the business relationships that donald trump has attached to his flagrant disregard for ethics, the rule of law, and a lot of evidence of his own personal corruption. I dont know how the framers missed that there would be reality star show in the future, but somehow they did. But the New York Times has seized on that, in their latest installment about President Trumps taxes. And they have promised that theres more to come. But basically, what they are talking about this time is the anatomy of a myth. The anatomy of the making of this apprentice star myth. And at the time that the apprentice launched, donald trump then was reporting 90 million in losses to his businesses. But he, you know, presented as this mogul. You know, i think the beauty of the times reporting in this is that theyre putting financial and numeric clothing on things weve already known. Donald trump was essentially the punch line to jokes about the excesses of the 1980s when the apprentice came along and resurrected both his reputation with Middle America and his financial wherewithal. And i think the times story really shows the extent to which it became this financial geyser for him at a point in time when he really needed it. The times also, i think, has valuable reporting in his story last night, because theres been this mystery around several hundred Million Dollars that trump used to go on a shopping spree to buy golf courses. And there was speculation that there might be foreign sources that helped him buy those things. And it turns out he leveraged some of the money he got from the apprentice, along with a borrowing spree against Properties Like trump tower, to make those purchases. But the idea that the apprentice transformed trump and trump was a carnival barker prior to the apprentice and he became the entrepreneur to the masses after, isnt a new thought. And one of the key things i also think thats really important about the apprentice is thats essentially the springboard he used to get into the white house. The donald trump that got recreated through the apprentice is the same donald trump who appealed to voters in 2016. Tim, very quickly. Nick ackerman said that donald trump could end up in jail after hes president for some of these charges. Weve got to go in 15 seconds, but is there any genuine legal liability here in anything youve seen from the New York Times . Oh, 1 million percent. The Manhattan District Attorney is investigating trump for tax fraud and that hangs over his head like a sword. Tim obrien, great to have you with us. Thank you very much. As you can see, 205,000 americans have been killed by if coronavirus pandemic. And we learned overnight of a Pressure Campaign on the cdc of to downplay some of the risks. Well give you the latest, next. Your journey requires liberty mutual. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Wow. That will save me lots of money. This games boring. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Want conservative judges on ithe court. Vative, this may make you feel better, but i really dont care. If an opening comes in the last year of President Trumps term and the primary process has started well wait to the next election. I want you to use my words against me. Youre on the record. Yeah, hold the tape. 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Shes confirming a New York Times report that Top White House officials pressured the cdc to play down the risk that coronavirus poses to children, so that schools could reopen. Joining us now, cnn medical analyst, dr. Jonathan reiner. Hes a professor of medicine at George Washington university. Dr. Reiner, great to have you here. This really does fit into this larger story, where the white house, the political operation in the white house has been trying to muscle the science and the science that it doesnt like, it ignores. What do you see in this story . Exactly. It conforms to what bob woodward wrote about in his book, where from the beginning, the president has been trying to play down the risks to the public and manage the message. So, you know, typically, what you would do is, you would create policy based on what the data shows. But were seeing exactly the opposite. This is really nonscience. What were seeing is creating policy first and then searching for data to support your policy initiative. So instead of looking at how best to open schools, how safest to open schools, what the administration did is decide that they were going to push the opening of schools and then force the various agencies to find the data that supported their predetermined viewpoint. And thats how this pandemic has been managed. Yeah, its been reverse engineered. But more importantly, it means that parents and School Administrators got bad information. And what happened was that the cdc, when they couldnt find the data to support opening schools, what some of the white house officials pressured what they did is they went to a different agency, a different Government Agency that has no expertise in this field. So what they went to was the Substance Abuse and Mental Health services administration, and heres what the New York Times reports. The documents worked on by the Mental Health agency struck a different tone from the cautious approach being proposed by the cdc, warning that School Closures would have a longterm effect on the Mental Health of children. It said that, quote, very few reports of children being the primary source of covid19 transmission among family members have emergend, end quot, and said that children who are asymptomatic were unlikely to spread the virus. All of that which we now know is untrue. And that was the first paragraph of the cdcs School Reopening guidelines. Thats what they stressed right at the top. We know that children between 10 and 18 transmit the virus at least as well, maybe even more vigorously than adults. And that is thats always been the concern about opening schools. Weve known from the beginning that it appears that children have catastrophic events from this virus, very, very infrequently. But the concern is Community Transmission as a consequence of opening schools. And thats the kind of data that the administration sought to suppress. And theres obviously nuances that were learning every day to this. Theres new science out just today which talks about older children, 10 to 19 years old and how much more they spread it than younger children, and they spread it just likes adult. These are the facts. Its nuanced as people are making decisions for their children. It does seem as if this administration is making its decision and trying to go find the science or manipulate the science to back it up. And theyre doing it on a personnel level, also. The president brought in dr. Scott atlas to be an adviser on the Coronavirus Task force and largely seems to reinforce the views that he already had, that he wanted. And dr. Redfield, who leads up the cdc, has been saying over the last few days, that hes concerned that dr. Atlas is spreading misinformation. He was quoted by one news source as saying what dr. Atlas is saying, everything hes saying is wrong. Our Brian Stelter talked to Anthony Fauci yesterday about this dynamic within the task force. And listen to what dr. Fauci said. Im concerned that sometimes things are said that are really taken either out of context or are actually incorrect. But these news stories about atlas and redfield, they get to this question of, are the medical voices on the Task Force Working together or working against each other . Well, most are working together. I think, you kno you know what outlier is. Thats quite a statement from dr. Fauci. I love tony fauci, because he tells you exactly the way it is. Right. The administration brought in dr. Atlas not for his expertise on Pandemic Management or for his experience in virology or Infectious Diseases or even in internal medicine, for that matter. Hes a radiologist. They brought him in for his political views. And for being and for basically becoming an echo chamber for the president. Look, dr. Atlas i say this at the risk of getting a nasty letter from his lawyer. Dr. Atlas doesnt have much experience in, but he does have very, very wellformed views about herd immunity, which he testified before congress, about the risk to children, and about opening the economy. And they brought him in because his opinions perfectly mirror those of the president. And not of the rest of the task force. Dr. Reiner, we appreciate you being with us this morning, as always. Thank you very much. My pleasure. We have news today involving the killing of Breonna Taylor. Kentuckys attorney general now says he will release the grand jury recordings in the case. What one juror did that is leading to this action, next. I will send out an army to find you in the middle of the darkest night its true, i will rescue you oh, i will rescue you each febreze car vent clip gives you up to 30 days of fresh air. So, you can have open window freshness. Even with all the windows up. Enjoy fresh, any time, with febreze. Car vending machines and buying a car 100 online. Vented now weve created a brand new way for you to sell your car. Whether its a year old or a few years old, we want to buy your car. So go to carvana and enter your license plate, answer a few questions, and our technowizardry calculates your cars value and gives you a real offer in seconds. When youre ready, well come to you, pay you on the spot, and pick up your car. Thats it. So ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana. Breaking news. Kentuckys attorney general, daniel cameron, says he will release a recording of the grand jury proceedings in the Breonna Taylor case. Cameron also admitting that the only charge he recommended to the grand jury was unrelated to taylors death. Cnns Shimon Prokupecz is live in louisville, kentucky, with more. Why did he do that, shimon . Well, this all comes after an unprecedented step by a grand jury, someone who was actually in the grand jury, was one of the 12 jurors who were hearing evidence in this case. Late yesterday, filed a motion with the court, this person we dont know who the person is. They filed a motion to put pressure on the attorney general to release this information, because they say that the attorney general mischaracterized their work. And in response to that, the attorney general issued this statement. He said that the grand jury is meant to be a secretive body. Its apparent that the Public Interest in this case isnt going to allow that to happen. As the special prosecutor, our team has an ethical fwlaobligat not to release the recording from the grand jury proceedings. And we stand by our belief that such a belief could compromise the grand jury investigation and could have unintended consequences such as poisoning the jury pool. So clearly now they are taking a different position. They are going to release this information. The grand juror who filed the motion wrote about how the attorney general mischaracterized their work. And heres what that jury said. That the attorney general cameron attempted to make it very clear that the grand jury alone made the decision on who and what to charge. Using the grand jurors as a shield to deflect accountability and responsibility for these decisions only sows more seeds of doubt in the process while leaving a cold chill down the spine of grand juries. Now, the attorney general initially said that he would not release it, because it was secretive and it was a secretive proceeding. But theres been a lot of controversy surrounding exactly what evidence the grand jury in this case heard. It was as family had suspected and lawyers for the family and many of the people who took to the streets of lewisville here have said that they believe that they did not present any evidence related to the killing of Breonna Taylor. And that appears to be the case. We may get this information today. The attorney general is supposed to file it by tomorrow, but it could be released today. Shimon, more information would be very helpful. Thank you very much for all of the reporting from the ground there. Could President Trump end up going to jail over his failure to pay taxes . John avlon has our reality check, next. So much new information from the New York Times on the president s taxes. And much of the focus has been on what it now means for the president. But what might be most revealing as we mentioned earlier and most worrisome for donald trump is what it means for after he is president. John avlon with the reality chec check. Donald trump is desperate to get reelected. So desperate that hes willing to threaten the peaceful transfer of power. But the New York Times report revealing insights from two decades of his tax returns might shed some light on why trump is ready to shred every democratic norm to hold on to power. As university of chicago law professor Daniel Hamill wrote in the washington post, the stakes for trump this fall are far greater than past president s seeking reelection. For him, a loss would not mean only the loss of a political career, but also, potentially, personal and financial ruin. The first reaction for many was fury at the fact that a selfstyled populist billionaire paid less in federal income tax than an unmarried fulltime worker making just 9 an hour. Thats a rigged system. And its got to get fixed. But heres what former doj inspector michael r. Brownwhich said. If he loses the election, he faces federal and state prosecution for bank fraud, tax fraud, wire fraud, and mail fraud. No loc memo will spare him. Thats serious stuff. Now, tax fraud applies to any material knowing misstatement on a tax return, like falsely inflating losses to pay less taxes. Bank fraud would apply if trump falsely inflated his assets to get loans. Heres what trumps former fixer Michael Cohen told congress in 2019. Mr. Trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to be listed amongst the wealthiest people in forbes and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes. Since then, the manhattan d. A. Said trump could face tax fraud charges. Look, baseball greats pete rose and Darryl Strawberry did stints in prison for far less. The second issue stems from a mountain of debt. According to the times, he is personally responsible for loans total dling 421 million, most coming due within the next few years. We dont know who the president owes that money to. Heres what the cia guidelines says. Failure to lives within ones means, satisfy debts, and meet financial obligations may indicate poor selfcontrol, lack of judgment, or unwillingness to abide by rules and regulations, all of which can raise questions about an individuals reliability, trustworthiness, and ability to protect classified or sensitive information. Now, does that sound like anyone we know . But make no mistake, this is all serious enough to increase trumps sense of desperation. Among other things, his favorite twitter insults, fake, failed, dishonest, weak, liar, and loser would apply to him forever. And thats before the creditors and prosecutors come calling. And thats your reality check. Our thanks to john for that. It is a huge day. We are just hours away from the first president ial debate. Youre looking at live pictures of this very unusual debate hall. A fraction of the chairs inside. This is Case Western University outside cleveland, the site of tonights debate. 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Claim your seventyfivedollar credit when you post your first job at indeed. Com promo my skin gets so tired. This new olay serum feels so dewy, and hydrated. Gives my skin an extra boost of life. Its full of energy. It finally matches me. Im denise bidot, and my skin is powerful. And i can face anything with my olay. Before the first president ial debate, the New York Times exposing details from President Trumps tax records. Weve seen this play out before. A hit piece about the president s taxes, just before a debate, an inaccurate one at that. The thing that most surprised me, he has once again put himself in a pos al all. It looks like how it is precovid area. In previous hot spots, upticks in cases causing real concern. The only way to get to herd immunity is through the graveyards of hundreds of thousands of americans who wouldnt have had to die. Announcer think ns is new with Alisyn Camerota and john berman. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is new day. The first president ial debate between donald trump and joe biden is tonight. And some pundits believe it could be the most watched political event of all time. This is a live shot of the stage. I sometimes poke fun at these very still live shots. But tonight there is energy and excitement, just so far flowing off of this stage, because it could be the moment that the entire country, its so rare now that the entire country comes together to watch one thing. But this would be it. How would you poke fun at this . Sometimes i say, maybe this isnt the most exciting live shot weve ever shown. I think this is very exciting. I know you do and maybe im poking fun at you. And it is but tonight is so much anticipated. And its against the backdrop of more than 205,000 americans dead from coronavirus. How will the pandemic play . How will the new revelations about the president s taxes play tonight . And what about the