Transcripts For CNNW New Day 20180118

Hes had little contact with the white house. Im frustrated when witnesses talk to the media but cant talk to members of congress. This is new day with quiz cuomo and alisyn camerota. Good morning everyone. Its thursday, january 18, 8 00 in the east. Big test today for House Republicans as they vote tonight on the shortterm spending bill to keep the government open. Lawmakers have less than 40 hours to avoid a shutdown. At this hour, it does not appear they have the votes. Anything can happen. Republicans and democrats still struggling to find common ground. Conservatives want more funding for the military. Democrats want protections for d. R. E. A. M. Ers. Neither are in the current stopgap measure. The president is focusing on his border wall this morning, tweeting about it. General kelly says hes evolved, the wall idea has changed. He says it has not evolved and it has not changed. Again vowing that mexico will pay for it, but offering no proof on how they will. Sources tell cnn the president s chief of staff told democratic lawmakers that mr. Trumps promises on the wall were, quote, n informed. Weve got cnn plift David Gregory and cnn political director david chalian. Lets begin with the state of play on the shutdown. David chalian, where do you hear, where do things stand as the numbers kick down right underneath your face. Ive been thinking were careening towards a shtdown. Right now, theres no clear path to avoid a shutdown. The House Freedom caucus, the conservative wing inside the republican conference says that they do not have enough votes to give the paul ryan for him to pass this on republican votes only. Republican leadership disagree. What to watch for today, watch to see if the vote for this is getting delayed at all, if we see any sort of side meetings popping up. That would indicate leadership doesnt have all the votes they need and their confidence may wane in the hours as they go by. David, what time is it supposed to happen . I dont know that the vote has a scheduled time yet, aliynn alisyn. Youll be able to tell real fast if you see the House Freedom caucus going into leadership and that negotiating is happening. That means leadership is still looking for votes. David, go ahead. Theres also a separate compromise deal on immigration floated by Bob Goodlatte on the publicanide in the house that theres talk of getting more traction and paul ryan is trying to arrange a listening session for members. So there trying to advance that. That kind of goes to daiftdvid point about side negotiations trying to get republicans in the house to yes. On the democratic side you see the split, too. Theres obviously concern among some senators this isnt the way to govern. The conventional was come is that republicans catch the heat for this if theres a shutdown. We are in the new year, in an election year, and there is hell to pay on both sides for a shutdown when washington is not working and not doing its job. The tension on the democratic side is the Resistance Movement among progressive democrats who say this is where we have to draw the line in the sand over daca and immigration as we challenge the president. Go ahead, david. A new poll out this morning at cbs that showed 57 of democrats say that the democrats in congress should indeed not vote to fund the government if daca is not part of it. A majority of the Democratic Party is in the position of, its okay if the government shuts down if daca is not taken care of. The reverse, 51 of republicans say its worth not Going Forward wi funding the government if a wall is not included. This is what you see in this polarized moment in america. Another issue you have here is the disconnect between the white house and the ruling majority. Mitch mcconnell laid it out. He said i need to know what he thinks about immigration and i know what to give him. Thats unusual. Then theres another layer of it. General john kelly goes on tv and says this. Hes very definitely chapgtd his attitudes towards the daca issue and even the wall. He has evolved in the way hes looked at things. Campaign to governing are two Different Things. This president is very, very flexible in terms of what is within the realm of the possible. Except donald trump then this morning, right when we were talking about this issue on the show, charts tweeting, the wall is the wall. Its never changed or evolved from the first day. It was never intended to be built in areas where theres natural protection such as mountains, waeft lands, tough rivers or water. The wall will be paid for either directly or indirectly or through longer term reimbursement by mexico. Then he goes on to talk about nafta. David, whats the plusminus on this disconnect . Its so strange. To have a president and a chief of staff publicly so disconnected. When i think kelly is channelling trump in some ways to say, look, he wants to get to a place of getting a book comprehensive deal, that hes the only one who can do it and hes evolved enough to understand what the practicality is versus what he thinks the need is on the wall and then the president doesnt back him up. What i think is so interesting about what david laid out in terms of this new polling is this immigration issue, compromise, realizing who we are as a country of immigrants, being compassionate about how we look at immigrants versus demagoguery, nativism, scare mongering and fear of the other, this is the proxy fight of the trump presidency. Thats whats really playing out. You see it in the disconnect between those two. Daiftd chalian, when john kelly says the president is very, very flexible. I mean like clay that immediately hardens. This is what the problem is. Flexibility is generally seen as an asset, a good thing to be openminded. The problem is, as everybody knows, hes very ag agreeable wi whover hes talking to at that moment, be it Lindsey Graham on the phone or somebody in a meeting, and then it changes. Lawmakers have no idea. Weve talked to them today. They dont know how to deliver what he wants and what hell sign. This is even before hes president. This is the history of donald trump as negotiated throughout his business practice as well. That kind of, whatever room hes in, thats how people talk about negotiating with him. To see the president brush back his chief of staff this morning so publicly to me indicates donald trump believes understands his connection with with his voters and his base better than anyone else around him. John kelly wasnt the one saying well build the wall and who is going to pay for it. The moment someone not donald trump communicates in a way he thinks is building distance between him and his most ardent supporters, they why you see donald trump inserting himself and brushing back his chief of staff. David, you say what he wants is to say, i got something done that no one else could. Do you think theres an alternative that he may be thinking small ball, i need to be able to say i got the wall. I dont care what else is in this bill, i need to be able to say this, it was such a big part of my campaign, theyll kill me if i dont get it. Hell find a way to say he got what he wanted regardless f what it is. Islexibility point, alisyn, you have to leave room on the other side. I wont be surprised if in the next day theres a daca resolution and the president signs on. Maybe he doesnt even tell Mitch Mcconnell hes decided. The truth is kelly can be saying one thing, he can be tweeting another and he can find a way to compromise on the wall and still declare its this big, beautiful wall and everything he always talked about which didnt have to be a contiguous wall all along. Hes going to redefine this in a way that his negotiating mind is going to figure out. I do think, chris, that thats important. I think winning on security or however he defines the wall is something thats critical to him. David chalian, David Gregory, thank you both very much. Obviously the clock is ticking. A revealing interview with reuters. The president said a lot of things. He accuses russia of helping north korea avoid sanctions. Russia is it foog back this morning. Joining us is Reuters White House correspondent jeff mason. He interviewed President Trump on this range of topics. Great to see you. Great to see you. Set the seen for the atmospherics of this interview. A bunch of different headlines that came out. It was an interview with me and a few other white house colleagues. We talked to him about north korea, about immigration, about his exercise habits and about jerusalem. There are a lot of Foreign Policy headlines that came out of it. I think some of the standouts were what you were just mentioning on north korea. He believes russia is sort of offsetting any helping that china may be giving to the United States in terms of sanctions with north korea, basically by providing fuel which is annish yoo u that north korea struggles with and needs from foreign providers. Let me tick through a couple of these. Let me read for people who havent read it yet. On that putinrussia moment, russia is not helping us at all with north korea, the president said. He, Vladimir Putin, can do a lot. But unfortunately we dont have a relationship. I think its too bad. But unfortunately we dont have much of a relationship with russia. In some cases its probable that what china takes back, russia gives. The net result is not as good as it could be. Did he expand on why we dont have a Good Relationship with russia . Because he hasnt often said that. He didnt build on it much more than what we had in that story. The context is his chagrin over the russia investigaon and the fact he has wanted to have a closer relationship with russia and has often been very dismissive of the finding of the Intelligence Community that russia intervened in the 2016 election. This is sort of a constant theme with him. More broadly i think hes frustrated hes not able to make more progress on north korea and even though he is partially complementary of china for having helped, he feels the little bit of help china is providing is being offset by moscow. Whether or not in terms of north korea the u. S. Should engage in talks, here is what he told you, im not sure talks will lead for anything meaningful. Theyve talked 25 years and taken advantage of our president s, of our previous president s. He also then, in terms of north korea, did go on to blame the three immediate predecessors, clinton, bush and barack obama. A day after his doctor gave him a perfect score of a cognitive test suggested he had the mental acuity to solve it. I guess they all realized theyre going to have to leave it to a president who scored the highest on the test. He joked. Hes the only one asked to take that test. The others didnt. Thats a dig at his predecessors. Not uncommon for him to dig at his predecessors especially on north korea. Anything else he feels he unfairly inherited in the policy world, hell strike out ot bill clinton, barack obama, george w. Bush for not having handled it. It wasnt unusual for him to go in that direction. It was certainly a bit of a quip and a dig that he brought in the reference to his mental acuity test. In terms of the larger issue, he doesnt believe the talks with north korea would help, whats his suggestion . Did he suggest what he thinks will move the needle . No. This is an issue where he has gone back and forth. At some point hes been very dismissive of the idea that talks with north korea would be helpful, including one secretary of state Rex Tillerson has suggested it. Other times hes left the door open to that. He did not want to be specific with north koreas leader, but t again, he interpreted it as something that maybe he would be open to, but probably doesnt think would be helpful. Jeff, what is his mood during this . This is basically his oneyear anniversary this weekend. How did you find him . He was in a good mood. He was excited about the positive reports from his doctor about his health the day before. He wanted to talk about that. He was excited about how well he had done. We talked a little bit about his exercise regime or the lack thereof. What did he say about that . He said he gets more exercise than people think. And when we asked him about that, he listed the fact that hell run from the white house to another building on the white house campus. And i think run in this case means walk. Thats how i run, also. Exactly. He talked about the fact that he golfs a lot which he does. He also conceded he doesnt spend a lot of time on the golf course walking. It sounds like he uses a golf cart because he likes to get through with his game and proceed with meetings later at the headquarters. But he did say he understood that he needed to lose some weight and was hopeful for dieting and was hoping the white house chefs would reduce his portions and take out some of the fatty ingredients. Jeff mason, thank you very much. My pleasure. Both steve bannon and Corey Lewandowski are refusing to answer questions about russia meddling in the 2016 election. Is the white house restricting their testimony . The top democrat of the House Intel Committee joins us live next. You cant predict the market, but through good times and bad at t. Rowe price weve helped our investors stay confident for over 80 years. Call us or your advisor. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Sources tell cnn the white house is working behind the scenes to restrict testimony by former Trump Associates to congressional investigators. Both former white house strategist steve bannon and former Trump Campaign manager Corey Lewandowski both refuse to answers questions about the transition before the House Intel Committee this week. Joining us is democratic con man adam schiff, the top democrat on the House Intel Committee. Good to see you as always. Thanks, chris. Is steve bannon coming back today . Hes supposed to come back. Whether he will, i cant say. At some point he has to come back. This broad declaration that he wont answer questions about the Campaign Including up to the present date is unsustainable. Hes going to have to come back and answer questions. Its interesting what the house tried to do yesterday through secretary kelly, and that is to say, well, we never asked him to invoke executive privilege. Technically thats correct. But they did tell him keep your mouth closed. We dont want you talking about what happened during the transition or what happened when you were in the administration. A bit of a misleading impression from those answers yesterday. Is there any reason other than executive privilege that could be exercised by the white house, by suggestion to bannon for him not to testify. No. Theres no legal basis at all. Executive privilege isnt going to apply to the broad majority of these questions on if they do invoke it, but which thant ka both ways. Theyre trying to say we havent invoked executive privilege, but we are instructing the witness not to answer. You cant do that. Well, you can unless somebody checks you on it. Exactly. Let me ask you something. Why dont you know if steve bannon is coming today . Hes under subpoena, is he not . Hes under subpoena. As is sometimes the case with witnesses that we have compelled to attend, we dont know until we see the whites of their eyes whether they, in fact, show up. I do want to make one other note of comparison here between lewandowski and bannon. Its not just that they refuse to answer a question here or answer here. Both of them drew exactly the same line, we wont answer any questions that took place, conversations, events that took place during the transition or during the administration and many conversations up to the present day. Thats not a coincidence in thigh view. Youre saying they used the same exact language . They drew exactly the same point in which they refused to answer questions. Let me ask you thing. Is there any chance that bannon is once again communicating with the majority and telling them whether to come today and w theeal is through counsel and you just dont know because youre on t democrat side . Its certainly possible. Thats what happened. The majority counsel knew he wasnt going to answer certain questions and you didnt. That is true. It may be that many of the majority members didnt know that as well. The staff works for chairman nunez who doesnt participate in these interviews, but does answer to chairman nunez. Thats the staff that would have reached any kind of understanding with Steve Bannons counsel or the white house. We are not privy to any of that. Corey lewandowski said im not prepared to answer any of these questions. Ill come back. Do you buy that . No, i dont buy that at all. Of course theyre prepared. It would be malpractice for his lawyer to bring him into an investigative hearing and not prepare him for questions and expect somehow the committee is not going to be interested in asking him what have you learned about the issue of collusion or obstruction of justice since you left the campaign in your conversations with anyone involved in the campaign, your conversations with the president. Of course those questions were anticipated and, of course, they were prepared. What they were prepared to do is say were not going to answer, and for some reason they expected they would have a docile majority to go along with them. Sadly thats exactly what they had. But they did Different Things in deference to bannon words i don say very often. He said i can answer, ive just been asked not to, so im going to respect that for mao. Let me work with my counsel. Corey lewandowski says he was not prepared, he needs someone to el him rebel what he must obviously know . It was the same in both respects. Bannon said im willing to answer questions, but im operating on instructions from the white house. Lewandowski said im willing to answer questions, just not today. Both were not under any kind of claim of privilege exerted by the executive office. So they both of their own volition said im not going to answer and they both said im not going to answer the same categories of questions. So in the case of mr. Lewandowski, we tried to find out was this as a result did you discuss your testimony with the white house, with the president. He would not answer those questions and certainly not completely. Youll have to see, if this continues as a trend, well pick up on the conversation we had last time we spoke which is youre going to wind up in court, right . We could. The interesting thing, too, chris, we had another witness in yesterday, a current executive branch official who answered all of our questions, answered questions about campaign transition how do you explain that . The only way to explain it is the white house is clearly treating steve bannon differently, and perhaps Corey Lewandowski the same way. In the case of steve bannon, it may be because they cant trust what hes going to say. With these other people in the administration, they know very well exactly what theyre going to say but with steve bannon they dont. Steve bannon may have an interest in getting back in the good graces of the white house. What is your vote tonight in the house continuing resolution . My vote is a no. If were not going to fix the daca problem that the president created, we shouldnt be passing this bill. We ought to insist on it. The republicans control everything. So they can do it without us. If theyre going to come to us and ask for our help, well insist on their resolving this mess they created and the uncertainty they inverted into the lives of these d. R. E. A. M. Ers. Sure they control with the house, but with the filibuster rule, they need 60 votes. Thats why the democrats have been drawn into focus. Thats the senate, not the house, not your problem specifically. Thank you for updating us, we appreciate it as always. Thanks, chris. Alisyn . Im going to tell you about cuomo prime time. You have an exciting show. You have time sire it sounds better when you say it. I wasnt that into it. But u now i am. I hope you show up for this because i want to see this. Me, too. Meanwhile, the house planning to vote on the spending bill tonight that would keep the government open. Its not clear. Republicans have the numbers, a member of the House Freedom caucus joins us next. With expedia, you can book a flight, then add a hotel, and save. Everything you need to go. 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The house preparing to vote tonight on a shortterm spending bill to avert a Government Shutdown. Are members on board . Lets ask republican congressman Warren Davidson of ohio. Hes one of the members of the Freedom Caucus. Good morning. Good morning. Are you going to vote yes or no or this temporary shortterm spending bill . Probably no. When you look at the challenge, in the house weve been at a framework that funds our defense at a higher level since september and weve been waiting on the senate and, of course, the senate is waiting on 60 votes to be able to move forward. Its not really clear what funding levels the senate would actually support because theyve held up their commitment on funding over daca. But just explain to us why you would vote no. Whats your beef . Why wont you vote for this . I know its temporary, but why not keep the government run . I dont want to shut the government down. Since september, our troops are waiting we had fewer combat fatalities last year than training fatalities. Under president obama and the way he applied the sequester which is acrosstheboard cuts, not selective, funding things like 300 a gallon jet fuel, our Fighter Pilots our troops are waiting for funding. This does not get the funding to our troops. Our troops are in need of more funds for combat readiness, in need of more flying time. In more need of spare parts. Look at the kpiends of things that have gone in our military. We agreed to do this back in the summer. We took the votes in september and we want to spring this out, and the whole purpose of stringing it out isnt to resolve things for our troops. Its to do a daca deal. So what i want to vote on is a clean vote for the full year of funding for the military and not some half measure that really does a deal that prioritizes 800,000 people whose parents brought them here illegally. If we grow on funding the troops, why cant we fund them right now and continue to work on the things we dont agree on. Democrats say why cant you agree on protections for the d. R. E. A. M. Ers . They havent worked out an agreement. Bob goodlatte has a bill who has some interest. You have an agreement that maybe could be a compromise. Were looking at that. Thats its own path. Its its own bill. We allegedly have an agreement on defense spending. Why cant we have a clean vote on defense spending. Listen, youre stating your case of what you want, i understand. As of midnight tomorrow night the government shuts down. So the very people that youre trying to protect in terms of soldiers at some point, they dont get paid. Its up to the administration to determine how what is essential, and i have confidence that Nick Mulvaney and President Trump would prioritize funding our troops. Unlike the previous administration, he spent extra money 230 block world war ii from going to the war memorial. You wont see any of that nonsense under this administration. Youre confident your troops will be paid, obviously hundreds of thousands of people who lose their paycheck tomorrow night at midnight. Payday is january 30th. My confidence is well get a better range of options by saying no to the current bad option. Some of your fellow republicans believe you are being obstructionists. Here is adam kins ling. Were hearing the plan. Our friends at the freedom club decided they want to oppose it. The freedom club, theyre not the ones advocating for robust military spending. Many of them are fans of sequester which i am not. You heard what he said. He believes youre hanging you hat on this, but its not genuine because in the past the Freedom Caucus wanted the sequester which cut spending. I wasnt here for that. Adam is a good guy, Strong Military guy. Hes pushing for the same kinds of funding. In some of the folks case, they would spend more money on defense no matter how muchore money whi spent. That would be great if we had the money. Were effective going to borrow more than the Defense Budget again. Were really borrowing money from our enemies to defend our country which is not a sustainable path. Unthor the sequester, president obama could have allocated the money, but instead he did half measure after half measure which has crippled our military readiness. At this moment, all the Freedom Caucus will vote no on this bill . I cant speak for everyone in the Freedom Caucus. My voting card belongs to the people of ohios eighth district. I think this so not the deal we should be voting on. I plan to vote know. Congressman Warren Davidson, thank you for sharing your perspective with us. Thank you. The state of california standing up to President Trump with no sign of backing down. Activists describe the growing resistance coming up. But if youre about to have breakfast, listen up. Cnns lisa drier has options to help you eat less throughout the day in food as fuel. If you start your day with avocado, it could help you eat less later. It contains heart healthy fats and fiber. One study found when people ate the green fruit in the morning, they felt more satisfied and less hungry over the next six hours. Try it on whole grain rooi crisp pred. Whole grain rooi makes you less hungry and you eat fewer calories at lunch compared to those who eight refined bread. The high amount of fiber in rooi helps you feel fuller, longer. If you need a mid morning snack, keep almonds at your desk. These nuts can help curb your appetite and keep your weight in check despite being high in calories. Its believed fat and fiber in almonds contribute to lower blood sugar levels after meals which help decrease cravings. Parodontax, the toothpaste that helps prevent bleeding gums. If you spit blood when you brush or floss you may have gum problems and could be on the journey to much worse. Help stop the journey of gum disease. Try parodontax toothpaste. As we approach the oneyear mark of Donald Trumps presidency, the battles between the white house and california are intensifying, both sides clashing over immigration, recreational pot, taxes, the environment. Cnns Miguel Marquez on why the divide is only deepen iing. Reporter the california republic versus President Trump. The resistance is legion. Reporter one year into his Administration Trump is a wakeup call. Reporter the worlds sixth largest economy fighting Trump Administration policies on everything from Legal Marijuana to taxes to the environment. California is not waiting for were not waiting for all the deniers. Reporter a the escalating fight over immigration. Were going to fight and were going to win. Reporter california now an immigrant sanctuary state, a new u la limbing. Prank road signs welcoming to people to the land of the illegals the acting head of im grace and Customs Enforcement on fox news says california politicians who made the law should be held personally accountable. Politicos here arent worried. Have you ever seen the enmity between california and d. C. Like it is today . I wouldnt call it em any tis. Certain policies that are radical departures from the norm. California will fight those. Reporter the immigrant Community Finding its voice in the era of trump. Were actually working harder and galvanizing more people. Reporter a daughter of mexican immigrants, lydia avila says the president , his rhetoric and policies have only emboldened her community. This is a movement that is not going to be stopped. The president cannot wen. Hes not going to be there forever. Were going to win. Reporter equally galvanized, the Entertainment Industry with its deep pockets and powerful voice. The power of an idea to change the way people think and change the way people feel is really whats important. Thats really what were fighting for. Reporter Jeremy Zimmer ceo of unit talent agency, one of the worlds largest, says trump represents a threat to the idea of america. We all see that the freedoms and the life we assume we have, the incredible privileges we have to be raised in this country, to live in this country, we all see that how fragile it can be. Reporter cheryl conte, an activist in the Tech Community says it is a fight over principles. I think that youre going to find californians be completely unapologetic about fighting for what we see as california values. Reporter working from home on her pedal desk, onefoot soldier, among millions across the state countering, resisting trump. Miguel marquez, cnn in the california republic. All right. Its time now for cnn money now. A Government Shutdown is looming. What could that cost the ufrmt s. Economy . Chief Business Correspondent Christine Romans is here to tell us about that. Youve crunched the numbers. Good morning. The last shurtdown cost the u. S. Economy 24 billion. If negotiations collapse, most federal agencies would close. Hundreds of thousands of workers would be furloughed, taking leave without pay. But thats not all federal workers. Those deemed essential will work, like air traffic controllers, law enforcement, federal court staff, and they wont be paid until after the shutdown ends. What about the u. S. Military, the biggest loser according to the president . The good news is the troops have been paid. You will get your Social Security check. That program is mandatory, Social Security is. You can also get a new passport. You should act quickly, if you think theres going to be a Government Shutdown, there could be delays. Out of luck if you plan to vacation to a national park, museum or monument. Taxpayer funded sites would be closed. Who does get paid during a shut down . Those who have constitutional duties, the president , Supreme Court and members of congress. It is their job, chris, to keep the government running. That is pretty much their core meaning. They would still get paid if they dont do their job. The irony. Christine, thank you very much. Out coming republican senator jeff flake rebuking President Trumps attacks on the press saying americas democracy is at risk. Is that true . Are these fake news claims more than just ramblings . Lets discuss next. Hi im joan lunden. Todays Senior Living communities have never been better, with amazing amenities like movie theaters, exercise rooms and swimming pools, public cafes, bars and bistros even pet care services. And theres never been an easier way to get great advice. A place for mom is a free service that pairs you with a local advisor to help you sort through your options and find a perfect place. A place for mom. You know your family we know Senior Living. Together well make the right choice. [ click, keyboard clacking ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ click, keyboard clacking ] good questions lead to good answers. Our advisors can help you find both. Talk to one today and see why were bullish on the future. Yours. Without truth and a principled fidelity to truth and shared facts, President Trump, our democracy will not last. Thats republican senator jeff flake rebuking President Trump on the senate floor, accusing the president of echoing Joseph Stalins attacks on his enemies. He said america under his leadership is charting a a dangerous path. Joining us now are professors of government at harvard who know about the dangerous path. They are authors of the new book how democracies die,. Its good to have you both here, professors. Theres a lot in this book for people to look at contextually to check the demise of a democracy. Good. Specific to us here, lets start, steven, with why you think the american democracy may be in any real trouble. Well, were hopeful that its not. We dont think american democracy is dying, but there are warning signs. The first one is we elected a demagogue and we elected somebody who has dmons strably weak commitment to democratic and constitutional norms. Its the first time in a century that a major Party Candidate has shown author taeitarian instren his supporters say hes not a demagogue, hes just channelling what they felt about wanting to break the mold. Thats certainly a paradox of democracy at some level. What happens with electoral authoritarians, they go after the media, accuse political rivals of being criminals. They threaten to lock up their political rivals. These are warning signs weve se seen. This isnt the first time a large number of americans supported a deck gog. Henry ford back in the 1920s, George Wallace had a lot of support. Mccarthy for a while had a lot of support. This is the first time one of these demagogues became the nominee of a major party. If its true that the trump base said we felt this way already. This could make him by definition a demagogue because a demagogue uses existing prejudices to advance their own cause. The check on it would be, hes not serious, hes not taken seriously. He doesnt have serious sway over a significant portion of the country. Hes consistently seen as talking but not believing does that help democracy survive someone who says the things he says . It helps hes pretty inept, not very popular, pretty weak. Were he more experienced, more serious, more popular, i think he would be more dangeros. But our experience looking at other countries around the world suggest that most of these guys who talk in authoritarian talk during the campaign, use a lot of bullying bluster, actually end up throwing punches as well. They end up doing stuff. Its rarely just talk. Youve been looking at this for years. Is there a comparison, a historical time that you think can be used as a comparison for what were seeing now . The u. S. Is unique in that its the oldest democracy in the world. Its rare for old democracies to breakdown. Chile in the 1970s collapsed as a democracy. Uruguay as well. Theres a history of some countries with strong democratic norms breaking down. This usually comes in the form of polarization, a spiraling conflict on the two sides. In that sense we see something similar happening. Proletariat revolt is in those examples. Whether or not what the president says mobilizes some type of civil action on his behalf. Do you see signs of that . Polarization has different roots in different countries. In the United States we have a a dangerous level of polarization. We have different sources of polarization in american politics today. Recent gallup poll from 2017 said significant portion of republicans, actually more favorable view of Vladimir Putin than hillary clinton. So this is a remarkable level of polarization. Unprecedented in the 20th sentry and into the 21st century. Democrats and republicans really despise one another to a degree that weve not seen in any of our life times. So what keeps you up at night . Having studied this for decades, what are you looking for . What worries you . I think one major worry is the prospect of a crisis. Often electoral authoritarians incrementbly chip away at a democracy in a moment of crisis and can use that crisis to take control of the system. You think theres a chance trump would reintroduce sadition laws. The election of 1800 ruz a huge referendum on that. It seems were in a similar time right now. I dont know if were in a similar time. Theres every indication that trump would be willing never shown an attachment to the constitutional norms that would lead you to think, no, he would never do that. The key is whether the Republican Party would go along. Thats what we worry about, what keeps me up at night. Normally we expect, okay, we elect a demagogue but the Republican Party, the congress will check him. Its not. Jeff flake is alone and jeff flake is retiring. Republicans in congress, republicans in the senate are rolling over, and its not clear what they would do, for example, if trump were to fire mueller. Its not clear what they would do if he were to begin to trample on civil liberties. Thats terrifying. The book again is how democracies die. Thanks for having us. Cnn newsroom with poply harlow and john berman after this break. Prevagen is the number one selling brainhealth supplement in drug stores nationwide. Prevagen. The name to remember. Feel the power of thenew power. Smax. To fight back theraflus powerful new formula to defeat 7 cold and flu symptoms. Fast. So you can play on. Theraflu expressmax. New r. Powe top of the hour, 9 00 a. M. Eastern. Good morning. Im poppy har bow. Im john berman. The breaking news, new reporting and new evidence that the president is fuming. He just directly contradicted his chief of staff and declared himself completely unevolved. At least on the issue of the border wall he wants to build between the u. S. And mexico. In an Early Morning statement the president wrote, the wall is the wall, it has never changed or evolved from the first day i conceived it. That is not