Transcripts For CNNW Cuomo Primetime 20180907

Who did it, the real question is what happens next. Is it the sign of something ending, or more likely is this just the beginning . And were going to decipher judgespeak. Do you know what a traveshamockery is . Youll know when i decode all the nonanswers from judge kavanaugh. This matters. He has said and written things about issues that might come up. And has issued none of them. Why are some senators okay with that . We have one of them here tonight, and well ask him. Come on, lets get after it. The president is out to get whomever wrote that oped. His appointees are making these grand public proclamations of innocence, including the Vice President of the United States, that trump is reportedly reviewing him, his new paul, rand paul, the senator is calling for Lie Detector Tests to find the leaker. Rand paul. Isnt he the selfstyled libertarian who didnt want to be patted down before getting on a plane . Now he wants Lie Detector Tests for an oped . The president says this is all meant to coincide with the hearings for Supreme Court nominee brett kavanaugh, though i bet kavanaugh welcomes the distraction to take attention away from his serial nonanswers to senators. Now, we have one of the critical lawmakers who is at the hearings, has a vote. Republican senator from louisiana, member of the Senate Judiciary committee, senator john kennedy. Senator, good to have you on the show. Good to be with you, chris. So this war that the president is waging to find out who did it, who penned it, all of these big shots coming forward to say, it wasnt me, boss. What do you make of it . Ive never worked for a president. I have worked for a governor. Its not the same thing, but the principle is the same. If i had ever reached the point that i was so angry or disappointed or unhappy with my boss mmhmm. I would never have published something anonymously and tried to remain in my job. I would have quit. What if you wanted to give a message to people that you should know this is going on, but i cant leave. I need to be here. Its that vital. What do you think of that . I dont think anybody is that vital, and i think that if you feel strongly enough about it and im not saying that this individual doesnt. But if you do, you need to stand up in front of the American People, god and country, and say here i am. This is my name and this is what i believe. I dont think, chris, in my opinion, you should try to have it both ways. You should try to say, well, im indispensable, and therefore im going to remain anonymous, but at the same time, im going to criticize my boss. Even if its justified, and i dont know whether its justified or not. Fair point. I get the having it both ways point. Fair point. How about how the president is handling this . If it is a nothingburger, way make so much ado about something that doesnt matter . Having these people come forward, these apparent loyalty tests, you know, trying to do everything they can to unearth who is anonymous. Why if it doesnt matter . If you dont think its real, why treat it this way . I have people in my life that i trust. I know you have people in your life that you trust. You mentioned governor cuomo. I bet he has people surrounding him that he trusts. When youre in positions of authority, you have to. Youve got to trust somebody. If you reach the point that you dont know who you can trust, then that impacts your ability to do the job. I hear you. And if i were the president , i would want to know who did this. Let me ask you something now, that doesnt mean would you also take a look at why they said it, senator . If this happened to you, god forbid, on your staff, somebody came up and said Something Like this, wouldnt part of you say, why would they say this about me . Why apparently are there so many around me who dont trust me . Isnt this a time for a need of selfreflection . This anonymous person is not the only one. Theres 450 pages about to come out on 9 11 of people who say similar things in the woodward book. Thats a fair point, yes. The short answer is yes. If a member of my staff did Something Like this and tried to remain anonymous, i would want to know who it was, but i would call in my staff and say, you know, speak truth to power here. Tell me is this true. Do you share in this opinion . Ive never in my life fired anybody for telling me the truth, and i never will. Well, well see what happens on this one. Thats the way i approach it. Its worked for me. Rand paul asking for Lie Detector Tests. The libertarian rand paul wants Lie Detector Tests in the white house to find the leaker. If that is not a metaphor for crazy days, i dont know what is. The president says this is a distraction from the kavanaugh hearing. I will say on the show tonight, and ive said it before, kavanaugh didnt start the fire. My argument is that these confirmation hearings have been a joke since ive been covering them, that the party in power is trying to push through their choice, and it is a dance. Ever since judge bork of saying nothing while in that chair. Deflect as much as possible. Nonanswer as much as you can. Fail to recall, deflect. Thats what were seeing with kavanaugh. Can you in good conscience say, yeah, this is a really open and full vetting of this man . We know exactly where we are and what were going to get from what weve learned here . No, youre right. Judge bork changed things. Not judge bork himself but the confirmation hearings. And every member of the current United States Supreme Court, including Justice Kennedy before he retired, all took the same position in front of the Senate Judiciary committee, and that is that they would not comment on current precedent and they would not comment on how they might decide one way or another a particular issue. And thats everybody from Justice Ginsburg to justice roberts. Every single one has done the same thing that judge kavanaughs doing here. Now, having said that, the canons of judicial ethics prohibits a judge, a sitting judge and judge kavanaugh is a sitting judge from saying how he she would vote or decide in a particular case if potentially a hypothetical is given to them and it could come before the judge. Yes. So they are they are abiding by the canons of judicial ethics. Its written a little more discreetly than that, senator. It is. Im with you about 60 . Thats right. Its written more discreetly like that and its being exercised much more expansively. And now what happens but hes written things that are of material this is unusual. We have two unusual factors with kavanaugh. One, he has been a political operative in a way that were not really as used to with these types of candidates or nominees. And he has written things that may well come before the bench about the president , about roe v. Wade and a couple of other issues. He refuses to own those notions now, and that is discomfiting to use a big word that youll find in the canon of judicial ethics. He could talk about those things if he wants to. He is not constrained. He is restrained personally, and it seems pretty obvious, and i get why people will watch this and say, this is why i hate these people down in d. C. This is what they do. This is a traveshamockery, a travesty of a sham of a mockery. Fair criticism . Well, in part. I think it would be a mistake for any member of the United States Supreme Court or a Prospective Member to say, heres how i will vote on a case that comes to me challenging roe v. Wade. I think that would be a huge mistake. Fine. But he could say, i said this about roe v. Wade. Heres why i said its not settled law. Im not just going to say settled law because i wrote here that its not settled for the Supreme Court. They change precedent. Thats what the Supreme Court does. You talked about having it both ways with the anonymous oped. Thats having it both ways too. Well, the United States Supreme Court is not supposed to be a little congress. Its not supposed to be politics. The law is not supposed to be politics pursued differently. Right. Having said that, theres nothing wrong with a nominee saying, im not going to tell you how im going to vote, but let me tell you how i analyze a substantive due process case. He could have done that. Now, thats fair. It is fair. He just hasnt done it. He wont even say if past cases were fairly decided. Ive read all of his law review art cams. Articles. I havent read all opinions. He has talked about his theory. He just wont own it right now, senator. Now, he doesnt youre right. He doesnt own it. Hes saying this is the test of the United States Supreme Court. Right. He is being very careful as was judge kagan. Yeah, i didnt like that either. Justice kagan as was justice roberts. You will never get them to say since the bork hearings that this is my position, will be my position on the United States Supreme Court. Right. Its like isnt going to happen. I know. Its just fullon. Some say that it shouldnt happen, but it did used to happen. I think thats fair. Right. You know, its just proof that both sides have fair ownership of doing something that may not be in the best interest of the American People. But senator kennedy, you coming on the show to make the case is always in their interest, and youre always welcome here. Thank you, sir. Thanks, chris. Be well. Now, at the hearings, there have been a lot of protests, and you can argue about time, place, and manner of those protests. Senator kennedy is a critic of them. I thought the kavanaugh stuff mattered more. But there is little question that people are right to find that hearing an exercise in frustration. Why . Its a dance of nondisclosure. And i will prove it to you next. We have deciphered the code that we are all witnessing. Announcer cuomo prime time is brought to you by the thrilling new film white boy rick, based on the unbelievable true story, starring matthew mcconaughey. Only in theaters september 14th. The a. Is stolen. Es. Hijacked from dreams. Pulled from decades of obsession. Taken from the souls of artists. We confess. We stole everything we could. From everything weve ever mastered. And put it here. The allnew lexus es. Every curve. Every innovation. Every feeling. A product of mastery. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Back pain cant win. Now introducing aleve back and muscle pain. Only aleve targets tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Aleve back muscle. All day strong. All day long. Im hoping these nature sounds will help me relax a bit. At least we dont have to worry about Homeowners Insurance. Just call geico. Geico helps with Homeowners Insurance . Good to know. Feeling better . I love you, pookie bear. [parrot 1] i love you, pookie bear. [parrot 2] i love you, pookie bear [parrots] i love you, pookie bear get to know geico and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be. The kavanaugh confirmation hearing, it is a traveshamockery, a travesty that is a sham and a mockery. Its a great word that comes from a beer commercial like most great things. It is all about this job doing his damnedest to avoid saying anything that might indicate something about what he thinks about what he may be judging. Kavanaugh is not the first. Lets be fair. Hes just the latest contestant in this game show. The problem is hes also a longtime political operative and that makes him unusual. He said lots of things that matter in his nominated position, and he wont answer anything that might cause controversy on the same. He wont own his own words. So the result is that we are all being bathed in this nonspeak that i will decode right now. Here is the first weapon. Hypothetical, okay . The hype of the hypothetical. Listen. I cant give you an answer on that hypothetical question. A hypothetical question that i cant begin to answer. Im not going to answer hypothetical questions. Senator, that sounds like a hypothetical. Hypothetical. Anything that actually matters that i cant dismiss with a general answer, until im on the bench, that is, when its too late for anybody to do anything about it. In other words, it means, i dont want to answer. So then the senators say, okay. Forget about the future. How about the past . Were major cases decided correctly . Then theres another kind of nonspeak. He says, well, those cases are precedent, and i have to respect that, or his goto phrase is settled law, also known as the unsettling notion of settled law. Take a listen. That law is precedent of the Supreme Court. Thats been around for a long time and has set the basics for the Campaign Finance framework. I said that its settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court. You dont need to be a lawyer to get this. Settled law means what it sounds like. The Supreme Court has decided. Heres the thing. That answer is good if youre trying to get a seat on a lower court because those courts must follow the Supreme Court. It does not apply to the Supreme Court itself because they undo precedent and create precedent. Thats what they do. And do you know who made that point in a memo . Kavanaugh. So for him to say now that its settled law when he knows damn well that he can unsettle it once hes on the bench, and he wont own the truth of what he wrote back then, thats a problem. And his reason why he wont is the next nonanswer. Judicial independence. You have to check the canons, and you can too. Just google it. This is the juicedup nothing of judicial independence. This moment is a moment of judicial independence. One of my jobs here is not to advance my own interest. I have a responsibility to do judicial independence. Its rooted in judicial independence. The idea that Supreme Court justices or any judges for that matter are somehow free of political leaning, come on. Theyre not computers. Theyre people. Their humanity is a virtue, but its also something that requires curiosity. Go google the canons of judicial ethics. Under independence, youre going to see they shouldnt be giving opinions about a case before they hear it. Fine. But theres so much else that they could talk about, the issues, the analyses, whats important to them and what isnt. And they dont. Why . Bears repeating. Kavanaugh didnt start the fire. Its been burning since robert bork was burning and said too much and got dinged. Since then, from the left and the right, they protect their nominees with numbers and nonquestions and nonanswers, and both parties play to it when in power. All right, now, a few takeaways for you. He had his Basketball Team show up today, the kids that he coaches, and they were there to show support. I hope he coaches them to be as evasive on the hoop court as he is about what he would be doing on the Supreme Court. Point two, snark aside, this man may sit in judgment on a president on the issue of whether or not that president can be investigated, and kavanaugh has written a president should be immunized from any type of investigation. Now he wont talk about why he wrote that then and how it squares with what he feels today. He could be deciding vote on roe v. Wade. He wrote about roe v. Wade not being settled law. Now he says it is. He wont discuss that apparent contradiction. Then there is this moment that sticks with me. You remember this . The nonhandshake, right . It is what it appears to you to be, all right . Its clear to the eye no matter what the white house thought they were seeing. He refused to apologize or give the man who reached out any respect. Instead, he said this. Ive not lived in a bubble, and i understand how passionately people feel about particular issues, and i understand how personally people are affected by issues. But he wouldnt talk about mr. Guttenberg personally. Now, why does this matter . Maybe it doesnt to you. But it does to me, and heres why. As one senator said, if he wont shake the hand of a man whose kid was murdered simply because of that mans political leanings, can he be trusted to give a fair shake to cases that hes going to see . So thats what i have on that. Well be following it every day. When it comes to trust, we all know theres one person who cant be trusted. Its the senior aide who turned on President Trump and penned that anonymous oped. One of the president s biggest allies recommends the white house whip out a Lie Detector Test to root out the mole. What should the west wing be doing in reaction to this . Its a great debate to have. Were going to have it next. To the junior prom with. He was a cutie and if you go down, thats me, above him. You won best looking in your senior year of high school . Somebody had to win it. My Best High School moment was the day i walked across the stage. My dad. Couldnt read real good, so, it was a milestone for me. Ancestry now has over 300,000 yearbooks from all across the country. So go back to school with your family, and discover more of their stories. Start searching for free at ancestry. Com. You dont see psoriasis. You see clear skin. You see me. But if you saw me before cosentyx. I was covered. It was awful. But i didnt give up. I kept fighting. I got clear skin with cosentyx. 3 years and counting. Clear skin can last. See if cosentyx could make a difference for you. 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For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise their rates because of their first accident. Switch and you could save 782 on home and auto insurance. Call for a free quote today. Liberty mutual insurance. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. The anonymous New York Times oped describing a trump resistance within the administration has the president nonplussed, and he is out for vengeance. His new pal, senator rand paul, is making this suggestion for rooting out the resistor. We use a Lie Detector Test routinely for cia agents and fbi agents. I think if you have a security clearance in the white house, i think it would be acceptable to use a Lie Detector Test and ask people whether or not theyre talking to the media against the policy of the white house. Cool glasses. Libertarian versus lie detector to find out who penned an oped in america . How big a deal is this oped . Lets bring in nina turner and jason miller. I could debate rand paul all night, but hes not really relevant enough here. This is a lot of handwringing or something you guys are saying doesnt really matter, jason. Why . Well, actually i think the oped is problematic, and ill tell you why. Even though i think most of the people in the white house and in the administration are there for the right reasons, i think they believe in the president and his mission, what hes trying to do. I think the fact that somebody who is working at this high level and we dont know exactly where it is, how high, or if theyre midlevel. But the fact of the matter is the New York Times went and ran this oped. The fact that they would go and do this again, this wasnt some whistleblower activity. This was effectively a soft coup, saying that there are a number of people that are actively working against the president of the United States and against what hes trying to implement while supposedly working for him. And i think this is problematic. So were seeing the tip of the iceberg. What i would like to see is the administration put some kind of task force together to figure out who penned this oped or if it was multiple people that did it, and they need to be kicked out of there quick. I think the whole lie detector idea is silly, and i think thats a nonstarter and isnt going to go anywhere. I think we absolutely need to find this person or people if they were working together and kick them out because this is not representative of the good people in the administration, and it is not fair. And, chris, i hope you agree and, senator, i hope you agree also that it doesnt matter what party youre from. It doesnt matter what your political allegiance are. You should not have people in the administration actively working against you like that. If you dont like it, then get the heck out. All right. Heres one of the problems for the white house, nina. Too many choices. Too many choices of who would have said Something Like this. Too many leakers. Ive never seen a white house like this sieve of a white house that we have right now, the number of sources you have. Did you see the list of the people who came out to say they didnt see this they didnt write this . Look at all those people who felt it was necessary, nina, to come out and say, it wasnt me, boss. What does that tell you . True dat, chris. Those should be the first people the president should look at. Jason brings up a fair point. I worked for one of the mayors in the city of cleveland, and if you ever come to a point where you dont believe in an administration that much, you should absolutely leave. I think senator Elizabeth Warren brought up a good point that if enough of the cabinet believes that this president is a threat to our democracy, to the United States of america, then they should come out and come together full blown. Dont do it in secret and hiding. And say that we want to invoke the 25th amendment to the constitution to bring that to the congress. But, you know, there was a song i believe that came out in 1971 that says Smiling Faces sometimes. The president has many Smiling Faces around him, and im sure it causes him a lot of anxiety because he does not know who he can trust. But the question is one i think you also brought up, chris, is that he should ask himself is why would anybody or a lot of somebodies in his administration determine that things have gotten that bad that they want to take this route . The selfawareness question, jason. The president is quick to point the finger, but we all know the thing we teach our kids. You point a finger, youve got three pointing back at you and a thumb thats really doing nothing. Isnt this a time for reflection . The book comes out. The place leaks like a sieve. People are always saying they question his judgment. Now hes got this oped penned. Isnt it time for him to say, what am i not doing the right way for my own people in the house . Well, i think its definitely a time to look around and say, do i have the right people here . No. Is he doing it the right way because maybe theyre right, all these people saying you got to know a little bit more, you got to yell less. You got to be less rambunctious. Chris, thats not why President Trump was elected. People voted for him because they believed he was going to be a change agent, that he was going to go and fight the swamp. Unfortunately what were seeing here is the swamp fights back. No. Why is this the swamp . These are his own appointees. Chris, but heres the thing. Heres what we dont know. Are these people that President Trump even knows who their names are . Are these people were they picked by some other lower staff level person or some mediumlevel staff person who then brought them in . We dont even know if the president even knows them or regularly has meetings with them. The fact of the matter, President Trump was brought in to go and shake up washington. He wasnt brought in to sing kumbaya and be like a go along to get along guy. People brought him in because they were sick and tired of the financial i got you, but i dont remember anybody saying, i hope he goes in there and is really abusive to his own people. And i hope he tries to make us as divided as possible and say that a free press is a bad thing. Now, fair point about you, jason. You come on here to speak your mind, but you did sign a nondisparagement agreement, right . I did sign a nondisclosure agreement with the campaign, just as everybody did on the campaign did, and as people do whether they be in law or in military or contractors or a number of different people in life. But what i did not sign is something that prohibits me from voicing my opinion. And so for the past year and a half as ive had the opportunity to come on cnn, im always going to give it to you straight. And so i can voice my opinion however i want, whenever i want. And so, chris, sometimes you might not like my opinion because im very much coming from the protrump perspective, and thats part of the reason why im being brought on is i was formerly the president s spokesperson. Im well aware. So im bringing it straight and directly to you. But i can disagree with the president and as i see things pop up where i disagree, im going to say it. But if i see something im fired up, you Better Believe ill defend the president im waiting for that day, brother. Ill tell you right now. Nina, last word to you. Why he was put in office. Yes, he was put in there by some of the people who votes for him to let him go in there and be disruptive. But i dont know that this was what they were bargaining for. I dont think so. The president certainly is the common denominator here. All these folks cant be lying. All these folks cant be exaggerating. He does need to have some selfreflection. My grandmother used to say you can put truth in the river five days after the lie. Truth gon catch up. It really is the weight of the drama that comes from this white house that i dont believe that the American People can continue to take. Were only like a year and a half in. My god, is this the way its going to be all the way through . So the American People deserve a lot better than what theyre getting right now. President trumps problems become the problems of the American People, and thats not good. My grandmother had her own way. When i used to lie, she used to go ohhh and hit me. Thank you very much. Appreciate you being on here. Lots of trump loyalists are furious about the oped. One of them is michael caputo, former adviser. He wants this anonymous writer fired, investigated, possibly even jailed. Now hes got to make the case and be tested, next. 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Nothing runs like a deere. Now you can own a 1e subcompact tractor for just 99 dollars a month. Learn more at your john deere dealer. So we justi went to move a box of our dreto the basement and. bubbling, dripping not part of the dream. We needed to pay for repairs and replace the water heater. A loan through lending club gave us affordable rates with a clear end in sight. A few questions online and within days we had the money in our account. Now, if only getting these things unpacked was just as quick and easy. vo check your rate at welcometotheclub. Com. Heres what we know for sure. The combination of Bob Woodwards book and that anonymous oped ignited a flurry of Trump Officials trying to outshout each other as they scramble to convince the boss, it wasnt me. For someone who claims this is all made up and meaningless, the president sure is making much ado about what he says is nothing. Why . Lets get into what it means in trump world with his former campaign adviser, michael caputo. Its nothing. Now youre saying the guy should be drawn and quartered, or the woman, whoever said this. How do you reconcile those two . I prefer tarred and feathered, chris. Good choice. Sometimes i disagree with the president , chris. On this one, i do. I think it isnt nothing. I think this is about impeachment. This oped was dropped at a very opportune time, coordinated with the timing of the woodward book, not coordinated with woodward, just conveniently timed in order to depress the turnout of the president s voters so that we lose the house of representatives and the democrats can impeach the president in the First Quarter of 2019. Thats what i think this is about, and i think the coward who wrote this and, chris, you and i both know if you worked for a president or i worked for a president , we wouldnt do this. Wed quit if we didnt agree with him and wed leave and wed speak up. You know youd do that. Id do that. But this is not just a coward, chris. I think this is really diabolical. If you look at this oped, its important to note that the writer i believe its a woman. The writer actually puts in the word lodestar, which makes you think its michael pence, the Vice President. And then they put in the word first principles, which makes you think its general mattis, who says those words often. And then they put in the words off the rails, which is supposedly credited to general kelly. This person wrote words, inserted them intentionally to throw people off the scent and make us suspect mattis, pence, and kelly. You dont know that. Youre in a little bit of Ted Kaczynski letter analysis mode right now. Theyre all talking about lodestar. Certainly mike pence has used it but other people use the word lodestar. Its not like its old english or Something Like that. This is beltway, swampy stuff. It happens. Ive been in washington theyre an appointee of the president. Its your alligator, caputo. Why blame it on the swamp. Understood. I blame it on the swamp because the swamp rose up and tried very hard to get appointed to this president s administration. I think the president was thats another tin foil hat theory. You dont know this person was some kind of inside fix for this mythical swamp. You got the woodward book, dozens of sources. This one is an echo if anything. This isnt a new song of this man doesnt take the job seriously enough, doesnt do it with enough seriousness, is abusive. We have to counteract him. This is not a new thought. Well, let me i understand that, chris. Let me just be i want to be very clear here to my friends in the white house and elsewhere that going after bob woodward is a bad idea. You know, every single president for as far back as i can remember has gotten a bob woodward and tried to say they werent true, and they always were. So i think what the problem with the bob woodward book is people were talking to him, and some of them i think were lying. Some of the things in that book, i dont believe, but i dont think its bob woodward. Taking it out on bob woodward is a bad idea. The fact of the matter is this oped wasnt just written by a coward. It was written by someone who is diabolical, chris. But are they right about the situation . I dont think so at all. Youre always look, the media is a little to blame too. We love a scoop. We want to know who it is. This is just like the klein book back with clinton, who was anonymous. That was kind of a parlor game, though. Thats who we are, and i dont like it, and im trying no the to engage in that. I havent done any speculating about who it is tonight because what really matters is what they said ask whether or not its true. No doubt. And if it is, the president needs to be a little reflective because the big job is about the big surrender of the me to the we. And if everybody keeps telling you, caputo, youre not doing this the right way. Youre abusive. Were worried about you. Stop tweeting and doing all these stupid things all the time, when do you listen . I dont listen to the sneering elitist thats hiding behind an oped anonymously. What are these labels youre throwing out there . Absolutely. How do you know theyre an elitist . The president ran against these people. I believe that he was, from the very beginning, when i was working for him on the campaign they were appointed by your guy. Doesnt that matter to you . I think that was a mistake. And, chris, at the same time, its a little known fact that for the last 18 months or so, the trump loyalists, people who worked on the campaign, have been run out of the administration he kicked them out. You guys talk about loyalty all the time. When has he shown it . Im telling you it goes no, thats not what im talking about. Give me one example of him showing loyalty, sticking by any of his people . When . Once. Listen, i think that you look at rudy giuliani. You look at who . Rudy giuliani . He was supposed to be secretary of state or a. G. He was out until he needed him as a lawyer to deal with all this mueller stuff. Bad example. Bad example. Kellyanne conway, hope hicks. Kellyanne conway saved his bacon at the end of the campaign, and she is one of the most frustratingly Effective Advocates he has. Another bad example. Ill give you time for one more. One more person who is in the soup that hes stood by. Hope hicks. In the soup. She was one of the most glamorized press secretaries ever. She was almost given a complete pass. She left to start a new life. She was one of the first people on that campaign. She was one of the original five people on that campaign, and she stuck it out longer than anybody else has. But she was never in trouble. Thats all im saying. Loyalty runs one way as far as i can see. You know how much legal fees she paid to sit in front of the mueller investigation. I understand that. But thats about loyalty to him, not loyalty of him to her. Chris, i dont agree with you. Ive given you my examples. I think we should move on. The fact of the matter is this person who wrote this oped should stand up, be strong in their convictions, and speak up instead of hiding behind an anonymous oped. Heres the thing, chris. I really believe the president should be focused more on the midterms than on finding this person. I think jasons right. We need to find a task force. I think we need to find this person. I give you the last point, and i agree with you on both. This person should have come forward, and the president should be more focused on the midterms and the business of the people in general. Im with you on that. I think he will, chris. Well, well see. Not so far tonight. Thank you for being with us. Thank you, chris. Have a good one. Confirmation hearings are always supposed to be a tough test for the nominee, right . And then it never is. However, theres always a little bit of a sideshow. Today we had two senators appear to turn this confirmation hearing into a tryout for 2020, some say. Well show it to you, and you decide, next. If you have moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis, Little Things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats differently. For psoriasis, 75 clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. And for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. And the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Tell your doctor if these occur. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. 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Think about the use of your time and tax dollars to do this. And were just learning from the New York Times that they have a list of about 12 or so suspects. Lets bring in don lemon for this. They are talking about polygraphs. They are talking about sworn affidavits. I dont know what the enforceability of that would be. They are really doing this, trying to find out who said this. Why now . Why this . Theyre worried about the wrong thing. Listen, i dont know why now, why this. But arent i think you posed a question. I was sitting in my office and i said, amen, thats it. Why are they so concerned about who it is rather than why there are people in this white house that dont respect what theyre doing, who are willing to go on record to the failing New York Times according to them and talk about whats happening behind the scenes . That is whats most important here. Why do people if youre the boss of your show and of my show and my staff is willing to do that, i would be wondering, like, what am i doing that i could change so that the people around me could respect me enough to come to me personally and tell me rather than going on the outside. I hear you 100 on that. To me, this is shaping up as a real metaphor moment for everyone involved. For trump, he clearly doesnt have the ability to be selfreflective or selfcritical. He does not have the ability. Im not giving him an excuse. I actually believe that. I dont think its in his persona. Then you have the people around him, john kelly and others. Really . Youre going to indulge this type of insanity of who was it, who was it . First of all, youre never going to find them. No. Theres so many leaks in that place. Ive never been as well sourced by a place where im supposedly an enemy as i am in this white house. Ive got my list here of people who denied it. You know what theyre counting on . Theyre counting on the integrity of the New York Times not to reveal sources because they know that the New York Times as integrity and is not going to reveal them. So they can deny to trump and anybody in the administration all they want. But heres what gets me. A polygraph. Imagine putting a polygraph on the person they wont even allow to go speak to Robert Mueller without having scripted questions. Put a polygraph on that guy and see what happens. Theyre not going to do that because hes the president. But you would think that they would want to tamp this down if its such a nothingburger to begin with. But, man, are we living through some days. These are the days that people will be writing about in the times of our lives. Im going to pose similar questions to dan rather. Hes coming up. Perfect guest. Everything hes lived through, saw nothing like this. Thank you, don. See you, chris. Everyone wants to know who this anonymous person is. Maybe they shouldnt have done it this way. Maybe they should have fessed up if its that big a deal. We may never know who it is. Heres my case to you when we come back. Were too focused on who it is and not on asking the questions that matter most. Were going to do that next. T i. My life is here. [telephone ring] ahoyhoy. Alexander graham bell here. No, no, my number is one, you must want two two, i say like my father before. [telephone ring] like my father before. Ahoyhoy as long as people talk too loudly on the phone, you can count on geico saving folks money. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Whoever came up with the term Small Business, never owned a business. Are your hours small . What about your reputation . Is that small . Owning your own thing is huge. Your partnerships, even bigger. With dell Small Business technology advisors, you get the oneonone partnership to grow your business. Because the only one who decides how big your business can be, is you. 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The opped has everyone vexed. Hand wringing, who wrote it . Everyone has an opinion. However, i argue to you i think we get further toward what matters here by asking the right questions. Is it a big shot . If not, doesnt matter who it is except as a measure of whether the times did the right thing publishing it anonymously so soon before an election. If it is a big shot, that would show how far the rot has traveled in the white house. Leads to a question, why are all these big shots racing to say not me, boss . If the opped is so meaningless, why so much ado about what is billed as nothing . You could argue all these people coming out and look at that list, shows how many people were suspected of this kind of perfidy. Certainly reflects the suspicion from trump, reportedly hes on a witch hunt. John kelly has a list. Theyre talking about affidavits and Lie Detector Tests. Now what did the denials from all those people mean . Youve probably seen that old the wall street journal story kicking around twitter today, the one from june 1974, mark felt emphatically denies hes deep throat. More than 30 years passed before felt felt like fessing up. Raises another question. If one of those currently among the deniers is, in fact, the supplier, should the times out them . No way. Integrity is a oneway street in journalism, protect your source, even if they dont protect you. And then the real question, why . Why did the times agree to do it this way . They said we believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers. Was it . What did the opped do that wasnt done by the woodward book . Being anonymous carries the same suspicion in either case. Why do it now . To affirm the findings in the book . Was it done now to affect the election . What why did the person do it, by the way . Are they a hero . I dont see why they would be called that. But thats not the measure here, either, is it . The measure should be are they truthful and useful . So are they . Well, if they wanted to be truthful and useful, where were they during the acrimony of acidic policies like the travel ban and the kids in cages . The real soul searching here, though, isnt from anonymous. It should be from the president. Why does he think the White House Leaks as much as it does . Why does he think a topnotch journalism could fill 450 pages . Why does he think the times was so motivated to write, publish Something Like this opped . The final question, what happens next . Kelly is really the grand inquisitor, rooting out the resistor . As they call the writer . Good luck. The place is a sieve. The list of possibilities is a dozen long for a reason. Why not focus on why you keep hearing the same criticisms . Focus on making it better. Because heres what we know for sure right now. All the reactions so far has only made it worse. Thank you for watching. Cnn tonight with don lemon starts right now. Well said, christopher cuomo. I appreciate that, sir. I didnt write it, either. You mean you didnt write the thing in the New York Times . Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, i never write you just read, i know you didnt write that. You had a lot of help with that. No, yeah. You know, again, i think youre right. I think theyre focusing on the wrong thing. How do you make it better . They have no concern about that it appears on how we make this better. The concern is lets catch this person because theyre giving away our dirty little secrets. Its the wrong place to be in. 100 . And i do think that if this is true, Maggie Haberman is good, New York Times reporter saying kellys got his list, hes doing it, going around affidavits, Lie Detector Test. Hes not being the adult in the room. This isnt how you deal with political scrutiny. They can make the case this is