Well, to be sure, their pain is real, and to be sure, it does reverberate the world over. And to be sure, the issues raised by floyds alleged murder were note buried with him. Were not sure about that. Lets talk about it. Lets bring in police chief art acevedo. Thank you for being here. Great to be with you. What do you take of the emotion, the outrage, the events that led to what culminated in your city today in the burial of george floyd . I think that what we all take from there is a resolve, a resolve to forge ahead as a community in houston, and across texas and the nation to take this death, this unjust death that should not have happened. And to take harness the energy that has thats been created by his death to actually effect change across the national landscape. You had the officer who had his knee on the throat of george floyd. Then you have three other officers charged. A lawyer for one of them last night, the officer four days on the job, holding down the legs of george floyd. He said he is not responsible for the death of george floyd. That he wasnt sure what to do, he questioned keeping him the way he was. And that the senior officer, the Training Officer said, keep it like this. And, therefore, he is not responsible. What is your assessment of that defense . I mean, first of all, i think everyone has a right to advocacy and obviously theyre given a preview to what the defense will be for that specific officer. Theyre probably going to be making different arguments depending on how what role they played in it, but at the end of the day, when you see a man who has a knee on the neck of another man, our expectation, i think across the United States in this profession, would be for officers to intercede and to actually say something, be forceful and to put a stop to it. So, you know, im not going to fault a defense attorney for doing his job, but i think that they have a long he has a long road ahead of him, and, quite frankly here in this city, wed expect all of our officers to put a stop to it, whether its me abusing somebody or a new cop. We all have a duty, affirmative responsibility to act. Absolutely. You have what they call a duty to intervene. Despite command. Right. Its not about the advocate, its about the argument. And where hes coming from i thought was very interesting. Not in terms of probability but proof. He says, well, look, ive seen the body camera footage. Ive seen what happened that you havent been able to see. That gives me a different context for what george floyd was doing. And ive gotten to hear what the officer, who i now represent was saying during that time. Now, look, we all know about preservation of evidence for trial. We know there are laws down where you are in texas, specifically houston, and in minnesota that preserve this body camera footage. Havent we learned that these cases are about more than what happens in the courtroom and that the transparency is everything, chief, and that people need to see the body cam footage . Well, you know, i think thats an interesting question, and i think if you go back to the rodney king incident in los angeles that i lived through as a member of the california highway patrol, there was a lot of pretrial publicity. And what happened in los angeles because there was so much out there, they took away that trial from the people of los angeles and transferred it to simi valley, a community that is much different than l. A. County. What ended up happening . We ended up with acquittals. So i think we owe it to the people, for example, in harris county, this is the most diverse county, the most diverse city in the nation, the worst that could happen is a change of venue because of the release of the videos and all the publicity that comes with it where it takes away from the people of minneapolis and puts it somewhere else in the state of minnesota. So it is really a balance, but we have to be honest and thoughtful and realize that every action has a consequence and sometimes those unintended consequences end up moving the rodney king trial from diverse l. A. County to very conservative, not so diverse simi valley and we know what happened. The rest is history. Horrible, horrible reaction that acquittal. So we just need to just i realize that there is a place and time. I get the balance, and thats why the laws are in place. Yeah. But this is not the exception, its more the rule. This is not a minneapolis situation. This is not a minnesota situation. It is not even an american situation. Its all over the world. You saw it in your own city. This resinates. And transparency is everything for people. And, yes, you do have to be worried about polluting the jury pool and moving it somewhere else, but you have to be worried about a lot of things when you have 30 of your top cities having protests and, you know, cities the world over. So the counter becomes, yeah, but its not just a local problem. Its a big issue. The other problem, chief, is this. Somebodys got to look at the body cam video and make decisions. Now, technically, that should be you the attorney general for your state. Because the argument is also we need trust. Somebodys got to look at the body camera footage and make a decision fast about whether or not this isnt just wrongful conduct, but illegal conduct. People dont have the trust that you would do it, that the police would do it, or that a local prosecutor would do it. Thats why they want to see it. How do you restore the trust . Well, i think that when the criminal process is completed, you actually do what we would do in travis county, where i came from in austin, you release all the videos for the people to see. In our city, we actually in our state we can actually show the families of the individual that was killed in a police encounter. And in my city, our mayor, mayor turner, weve had several shootings here recently involving armed individuals and involving conflict with police. Where our mayor has actually seen it. So i completely believe in transparency, but i know our community. When we actually talk to one another, they want to have a say, and i think the say needs to be, first, in the court of criminal law and, secondly, in the court of public opinion. What if it doesnt go to court . What if there are no charges . What if the investigation says nothing wrong but you never know why they found that . You release it. One of the things i talked to karen bass today, is part of the problem with our use of force and the way that we deal with it is its all done in secrecy. That in itself is a problem. We need to think about some creative ways to maybe have more of an open forum in terms of the hearings that go on to determine whether or not criminal charges are filed. So theres a lot of opportunity to make things much more transparent and im hopeful that as we move forward thats exactly whats going to happen. Ill tell you whats definitely part of it, conversations like this, chief. Yeah. Because there is no us and them. There is only we. Absolutely. I need you. Ive been in your city, as you know, many times doing my job. I need you to keep me safe. I need the police where i live to keep me safe. They are my friends. They are men and women who are better than me in terms of the job they want to do. Cant be you versus media versus citizens. Were either all in it together or we are nowhere. So, chief, thank you for having the conversation. Thank you. Have a great night. God bless. You too. You too. Thats what its got to be all about. Im not all kumbaya. Im not saying lets forget is remember we love each other. No, you cant forget it because you love each other. You have to stay stuck on how you get to a better place and you have to expose the problem. Thats not creating the problem. Incidents like this are now happening at the protests against police brutality. Youve seen this. [ bleep ]. You got to get out of the street. Get out of the street. Why . Now, what happened . She wound up getting grabbed, thrown to the ground because she didnt listen. The woman on the other end of that call, that cell phone video camera, rather, is dunia zaire. She was shoved to the ground, wound up hospitalized. Shes now here with you and me tonight. Wheres the officer and what comes next for both of them . Lets get after it. At tmobile, we know that connection is more important than ever. For customers 55 and up, we want you to get the value and service you need to stay connected. Thats why we have a plan built just for you. Saving 50 vs. Other carriers with 2 unlimited lines for only 55. And were here to help when youre ready to switch. Visit a store or go to tmobile. Com 55. Around here, nobody ever does it. I didnt do it. So when i heard they added ultra oxi to the cleaning power of tide, it was just what we needed. Dad . I didnt do it. 1 stain and odor fighter, 1 trusted. Its got to be tide. Charges, thats whats come down for the new York City Police officer captured on video shoving a woman to the ground during a george floyd protest. What happened . Watch for yourself. Its from her perspective, its her cell phone that was being used. You got to get out of the street. Get out of the street. Why . Hey hey whoa. Thats what happened. Even after you saw her pushed to the pavement i think the most frightening part, at least as an observer, is what happened after. They just keep on walking. The officer is vincent dundria. He was arraigned by video today. Hes looking at counts of misdemeanor assault, criminal mischief, harassment and menacing. Hes the first nypd officer to face charges as a result of the protest. Is that justice . What do you think . And more importantly, what is the woman that he shoved think. Lets bring in dounya zayer. Joining me with her attorney. Thank you for being with us. First thing, dounya, how are you feeling . How are you doing . Ive been better, but ive been worse. Are you still injured because of what happened . You look like you took a nice shot to your head when you fell backwards. How are you . I didnt know a concussion felt this awful. I havent really been able to hold down food. Ive been really nauseous and my head hurts and my back, but i im alive and im grateful. Your shirt says bu on it. I get the double entendre. When you were at the protest, you thought you were being the best self. What was happening when you started taking the cell phone video . I wanted to capture what was going on around me. I could see things were getting out of hand. I could see that protesters were getting hurt. And i knew that recording is important. Its always important to record what goes on when these situations occur. I didnt think that i would end up recording what happened to me in the process. The officer says you need to get out of the street. You say why . Whats the criticism. You know what it is. Youre supposed to listen to the police officer. He told you to get out of the street. You didnt get out of the street. Thats what you get. I dont think thats accurate, chris. Im going to jump in here because go ahead. The focus here is not dounyas actions, but the officers disproportionate reaction. And if asking an officer why warrants getting assaulted by a man who is supposed to have more restraint than an average civilian then i dont understand why we have law enforcement. I asked him why. He should have been able to properly answer without getting violent with me. Now, that point is exactly why i asked the question. And im okay with you jumping in, counselor, thats your job. But thats the point, isnt it . They are in the business of what . They are trained to deescalate. They are trained to deal with people exactly like they are not trained to deal with it the way he did. There is no question it was wrong. It was wrong on a professional level, and now, arguably, on a criminal level. The charges are misdemeanor charges. He has not yet been terminated. What do you think of the idea that he has not been fired, or at least not yet, and may never be, and that these charges are misdemeanor, which is not good but its not a felony. Its not the worst kind of charge we can give. What do you think of that . So, the most important thing here is that theres not a facade of justice. We are cautiously optimistic that there was a swift investigation and arrest of the officer. However, regardless of misdemeanor or felony, the most important thing is that this doesnt end up with a slap on the wrist. The nypd has a problem with use of excessive and deadly force. Protestors have a right to be in the streets, to assemble and speak their mind, and the focus here has to be on this disproportionate response. So justice remains to be seen. Charging is the first step here. There are many steps that are going to come after, and i think that the District Attorneys Office has to be transparent and accountable and collaborative throughout of this process. Counselor, and obviously, you know, dounya, you guys can weigh in interchangeably. Its fine with me. Were all having the same conversation. Dounya was assaulted for the very same reason she was protesting, police brutality. Yes. There is a tragic irony in this, no question. If he were to go to jail, would you see that as justice for him to lose his job, lose his livelihood and be in prison for a year or more . Would you see that as justice, counselor . I dont know if jail is the right answer, but more importantly, thats not a question for me. Our Justice System consistently shuts victims out of the process. Mmhmm. And either discredits them or takes them out of the decisionmaking process. Its very important dounya is the captain of this ship and her perspective of what justice is and what shed like to see happen here is front and center. Because it could mean Something Different to different people. Mmhmm. What i i do want to make sure is that, like i said, this is not a slap on the wrist. And when you mention things like his livelihood being taken away, you know, dounya was shoved so hard he shoved her like an nfl linebacker that she flew out of her shoe, slammed her head into the ground and she felt her brain rattle. Had dounya ended up like the man in buffalo right. Who went into a coma, cracked his head open and was bleeding on the floor, then what would be the conversation . And are we going to keep waiting until peoples lives are in danger because of the use of excessive and deadly force to take this serious . Understood. I understand your point completely. Dounya, now, there are allegations about what you did before. I dont see any of that on the video. About what he said to you. That will have to be evinced by witnesses about what he called you, the ugly phrase that he supposedly called you when this happened. The idea that after being pushed to the ground the way you were, they just kept walking by. What does that mean to you . Its difficult to go after every officer in that video, but to be honest, not a single officer in that video did their job. Theyre supposed to be protecting the people. Theyre supposed to stop someone if they commit an assault in front of them. There was just so much wrong. Especially commander kent edelman. He was there and he did nothing and he has been transferred. As if thats a punishment. You cannot fix a problem from the bottom up. A lieutenant who can watch his lower officers commit a crime, hurt civilians hes supposed to be protecting and do nothing about it, that is a problem, and passing him on to another community is not correct. If youre going to solve a problem, if were going to fix the police brutality, we have to start with the hire u higher ups that are allowing citizens to get hurt under their watch. There was no accountability from a single officer in that video. In that moment. In the video we saw. I understand why you say that. Let me ask you, when youre healed, would you go back and protest again . I want to protest so bad. I know that people are getting hurt and theyre able to go out. I am kind of ashamed to say im a little afraid. I want to i want to it gets me very angry that they successfully made me quiet, that they successfully made me afraid to protest. I should not be afraid to protest. I should be able to go and be there for the people who are putting themselves at risk. Those people are so brave, the people who are getting hurt and going back out there. Im too afraid to leave my house. Im too afraid to drive because im afraid im going to get pulled over and theyre going to recognize me. Ive been taking ubers everywhere. So going to a protest . I want to so bad. But i i dont know how im gonna get to that point. Well, if i may, dounya, youre doing a great job right now. Of telling a pretty good group of people why you were there, how you feel about what happened and what this is all about for you. And that is no small feat of courage after what you had to experience personally. I thank you, and counselor, i thank you for your shaping of the perspective on these issues. I wish you well. Absolutely. And i hope you always wind up doing what you think is right. Because you think its right. Especially here. Especially now. Be well. Thank you. All right. Look, none of these conversations are easy. You have to represent what will be heard in places where this is discussed, in places where this is litigated. Well, this is what she did and thats why it was okay. All right. You got to have the conversation. Let her respond to it. Well do the same thing if the police want to come on and offer up their position on Something Like this. You have to have the conversations. Not easy conversations. Thats what this shows all about. But you have to have the conversation. We cant stay where we are. The only question is where we go from here. We cannot stay where we are. Now, tonight in georgia, another window on the problem. The reality, an election meltdown in georgia has nothing to do with any of the fugazi frauz that th fraud that this president has tried to make you feel about, but it is exactly the concern of so many about disenfranchisement, keeping people from being able to exercise the right to vote. People in line for hours and hours. Calls for an investigation. Well tell you why right after this. Hey, can i. Hold on one second. Sure. Okay. Okay safe drivers save 40 guys guys check it out. Safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 thats safe drivers save 40 . It is, thats safe drivers save 40 . Hes right there. Its him hes here. Hes right here. Hi hi. Hey thats totally him. Its him thats totally the guy. Safe drivers do save 40 . Click or call for a quote today. Feel cool. Because the tempurbreeze transfers heat. Away from your body. So you feel cool. Night after night. 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Just ask what can i say to find more of what you love with the xinity voice remote. You know, theres no more powerful way to make a point than proof, okay . The president has consistently told you mailin balloting, oh, you cant do it, its rife with fraud. Its not true. He made it up because he doesnt like it because he obviously has some personal concerns about having too many people have too much access to voting. Oh, well, you know, you got to be very careful because i actually won the popular vote. You know, it was all these illegals in california, you know, fake voters. They werent supposed to vote. Its not true. Its never been true. You look at the cases, there have been studies done. Its not true. And heres the tragedy of the travesty that the president has created on this issue. We have real Voter Suppression concerns. One is playing out now. Proof. Please, put the picture back up. Nobody needs to look at my nose. This has been going on. Georgias primary, a mess all day and evening. Most of the problems have been in and around atlanta. Why . Thats what were going to discuss. People waited for hours in the middle of a pandemic to vote. God bless them for the fortitude, but why did they have to . Fulton county, which includes parts of atlanta, extended voting by an hour tonight. The mayor of atlanta is asking people to stay in line. Its a big ask. We know its dangerous for you to be out there. This is the only type of widespread voter fraud we will ever see. Please understand that, okay . Not here. Because youll hear a lot. It doesnt make it true. Just because he says something does not make true and more and more often it makes it likely to be false. Forget about all that talk, okay . Disenfranchisement is the concern. It has always been the concern. Okay . Thats what we need to talk about tonight. Now, weve been very fortunate, especially with the state kind of reeling from this and figuring out how to deal with it for us to have an official to discuss why its happening. Gabriel spurling is the sterling sorry, Gabriel Sterling is the statewide voting implementation manager for the state of georgia. Sir, thank you for joining us tonight. Appreciate it. Good to be here, chris, to talk about whats happening in georgia today. All right. Well, lets talk about exactly that. For some context for people, 2018, 87,000 people prevented from voting. Disproportionate number were people of color, young voters, groups typically favoring democrats. Georgia has closed 5 of polling places since the Supreme Court invalided the voter rights act. Most of those are in black and brown communities. You get the point. People are concerned what they saw today is a reflection of what theyve seen before which is disenfranchisement of minorities who tend to vote democrat. What youre seeing in georgia today is a function of the covid situation in large part. We did lose many polling place, summertime, schools are closed, churches opted out, vfws opted out. In Fulton County they lost 40 locations and collapsed many into mega precincts which saw a lot of the amazingly long lines. We said this is not a good idea, you need to find other alternative locations. Those kinds of polling closures and the things youre discussing are literally county decisions. Made at the county level and the state has zero ability to tell them not to do that, although this secretary of state has introduced a bill that would require if there are lines of over an hour any time during the day and you have over 2,000 people registered at a polling place, you have to split that polling place or supply more machines to do it. What we saw today, too, as an example, Fulton County, my home county. In a library, there were 15 machines that were sent there, but the rule of covid spacing only allowed four voters into those spaces. Those are the realities. Trying to get poll workers changed. The majority of our poll workers, the average age is 70. The county recruited new poll workers that they had to train during covid. Its very difficult to do. Hands on training with equipment when you cant get more than ten people in a room. Well, but heres the thing, gabe. I hear you, i hear you, and i wanted to give you a chance to give a fullthroated explanation of it, but plenty of people are Holding Elections during the pandemic. The office of the secretary of state in your state, as in most is responsible for election planning and certification. So this is your problem, even if its executed at the county level. Two, lots of states have done it without what were seeing now on your watch in your major city. To be fair, we had to roll out a new voting machine, new system we had just started. We had two weeks of early voting of president ial preference primary voting, and when we merge those two together, we launched the largest mailin program ever in the history of the state of georgia, over a million voters taking advantage of it. Its blown away the record turnouts weve seen. As of today, before we voted today, we already had record turnout for a general primary. Never happened before. Over 1,300,000 people. We have three weeks of early voting, including a mandatory saturday 325,000 people took a record. That was a record. We anticipated a record turnout today, which is part of the reason we saw long lines. The main things we saw had nothing to do with equipment but poll worker training because they couldnt do as much of it and logistical issues with the counties. We dont load the trucks. Items were delivered late. Especially a county that has a history of problems, Fulton County itself. We already opened an investigation because they mishandled ballot applications. In almost every case when our technicians showed up it was a two or threeminute fix because the poll workers didnt had not learned exactly what to do with this new equipment. But isnt that still on you . I mean, you know, these are your people. This is your planning. And, you know, its frankly, no its an interesting argument you make you have huge turnout, gabe. Hold on we do not deploy poll workers to those locations. Were going to work hand in hand with all our counties and learn from these things. The main thing we all agree is going to be training, training, training, were going to be better in august when we have runoff. You had the same problem in 2018. Chris, youre just incorrect. Weve never had these machines before. Theyre brandnew. No, no, no, the machines are new, the problem is not. In 2018, 87,000 people were prevented from voting. A disproportionate number were people of color and young voters. I agree with you that you knew that you had anticipation of a huge turnout. You had to prepare for it. Doesnt seem you did. It seems convenient if youre going to be able to not handle the demand, its nice you do it in places that tend to vote democrat. In those counties where people tend to vote democrats are run by democrats. And they are the ones who set the elections boards. Theyre the ones who hire the staff. We have been saying for years theres problems fulton. Fulton county has paid hundreds of thousands in fines for violating election rules. Repeatedly over and over again. Im sorry to play it that way, we have 159 counties, 150 of them had almost no problem whatsoever. We train the trainers, the counties are in charge of training the poll workers. Were all going to learn from this. Youre right, this morning started out terribly, especially in Fulton County, some places in dekalb and cobb and gwinnett. For the most part once we got the issues fixed once the poll workers didnt know how to handle the equipment, the lines started moving. At the same time, when you have 400 people lined up at a polling location and only allow 6 at a time in and can only scan a ballot, the first time weve used paper in the state in 20 years. We used to have electronic machines. Right. I get it. A lot of states have made the transition. Gabe, all im saying im not looking to ascribe animus. All im saying is it looks bad. It looks bad over time. Im raising the issues and giving you a chance to respond. A lot of people tonight may not get to exercise arguably the most important right we have. I appreciate you answering the questions. The ballots to 6. 9 million registered voters. First time ever. Weve done everything we can and were going to have record turnout. Youre right, it does look bad when we started out this morning. We started addressing issues as soon as we saw them and by lunch nearly every problem was off our board. We encourage everyone to vote because its literally the most important thing you can do in our democracy. Gabriel sterling, thank you very much for joining me tonight. Not an easy conversation for you to have. Thank you for having it. Thank you. Good luck tonight. All right. The pandemic thats taken over the planet, by the way, which is one of the complicating factors for preparing for voting and going out to vote. Were starting to see things that we were suspicious of, okay . When did this virus first come . Weve talked about that a lot on this show. We always believed it was sooner than theyve told us. New satellite imagery shows a little bit different story than the one weve been told. Dont believe me. Chief doctors here, sanjay gupta, next. For an everyday item to become dangerous. Tide pods childguard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. To close, twist until it clicks. Tide pods childguard packaging. Moms love that land o frost premium sliced meats have no byproducts. [conference phone] baloney [conference phone] has joined the call. Hey baloney here. I thought this was a no byproducts call . Land o frost premium. A slice above. Sixtytwo thousand seven hundred and ten dollars and thirtyone cents. Sofi allowed me to refinance all of my loans to one low Interest Rate and an affordable monthly payment. And i just feel like theres an end in sight now and that my debt doesnt define me anymore. Sofi is helping me get my money right. Hi. Uh, can you tell me how to get to i70, please . Ookay, are you ah, yes. Thank you. Switch to progressive and you can save hundreds. You know, like the sign says. In an unprecedented crisis. A more than 10 billion cut to Public Education couldnt be worse for our schools and kids. Laying off 57,000 educators, making class sizes bigger . Cmon. Schools must reopen safely with resources for protective equipment, sanitizing classrooms, and ensuring social distancing. Tell lawmakers and Governor Newsom dont cut our students future. Pass a state budget that protects our public schools. The w. H. O. , the world heath organization, is now clarifying comments made by an official that suggested people who arent showing coronavirus symptoms are less likely to spread the disease. The official now says this is a major unknown. Lets add it to the list of things that is an unknown because we keep to seem changing our understanding of every aspect of this other than the reality, you dont want it. Now, remember, the cdc says a third of thouse infected may be asymptomatic, meaning you dont know you have it. The cdc also believes that 40 of transmissions happen before you feel sick. So anyone can think theyre asymptomatic, but its possible symptoms just havent shown up yet. The w. H. O. Says the virus is spread mostly through droplets in the air, thats why you got to wear the mask. I know they used to say dont wear the mask. It changed. Their understanding changed. The facts change. Your position can change. Fights far from over. W. H. O. Says more than 136,000 cases were reported sunday. Thats the most in a single day so far. Then why do you feel that its Getting Better . The key word in that sentence is feel. Now, some of the big Population Centers like the one im sitting in right now, things are Getting Better, the rates are going down, there is good news, but we do have more intel on that front, okay . Were going to show you whats happening since places are reopening, and a question that i think is the key to how we look back on this situation in terms of what was done right and wrong. When did they know . When did this start . Weve been arguing on this show for a long time. That this thing has been around longer than they told us. Why . You and i have always known why. You keep hearing from people who say they think they had it back around thanksgiving, back before the holidays, back now what do the satellites show us . Chief dr. Sanjay gupta next. The covid19 pandemic is creating Food Insecurity on a scale not seen in decades. An estimated 54 million americans will struggle with hunger. With 200 food banks and 60,000 meal programs, feeding america is the largest hungerrelief organization in the country. Join Morgan Stanley in supporting feeding america and your local Community Food bank. Feel cool. Because the tempurbreeze transfers heat. Away from your body. So you feel cool. Night after night. During the tempurpedic summer of sleep, experience the mattress ranked number one in Customer Satisfaction by jd power. In Customer Satisfaction at tmobile, we know that connection is more important than ever. For customers 55 and up, we want you to get the value and service you need to stay connected. Thats why we have a plan built just for you. Saving 50 vs. Other carriers with 2 unlimited lines for only 55. And were here to help when youre ready to switch. Visit a store or go to tmobile. Com 55. Noticks and fleas . O simplifies protection. See ya heartworm disease . No way simparica trio is the first chewable that delivers all this protection. And simparica trio is demonstrated safe for puppies. Its simple go with simparica trio. This drug class has been associated with neurologic adverse reactions, including seizures; use with caution in dogs with a history of these disorders. Protect him with all your heart. Simparica trio. Sanjay, my man. Good to see you. Thanks for having me. How worried are you about the protests spreading the virus . My brother used the term superspreader, somebody going from protest to protest who has the virus whether they know it or not. How big a concern . How long until we know . I think theres a real concern here. The superspreaders, theres people a few people who probably are responsible for the vast majority of spread. Thats what we sort of find out in these big outbreaks. There are people who are more likely to spread it to other people. Some people say its the 80 20 rule. 20 of the people are responsible for 80 of the spread. You start putting them into situations you see there, you have a real concern. They not only are in close quarters, obviously, with other people. They may move around. Those people may go to their own homes, their own communities and thats how you start to see significant clusters. Chris, weve been talking about this for months. Nothing about the virus has changed. People in that close proximity is a concern. Outside is better. Wearing masks, thats going to help as well. If you can get tested like your brother and other governors have said, that would be great, right . I mean, adequate testing, widespread, easily available would help, you know, reduce the spread of this as well. Thats not available in all these places as you know, chris. And were starting to get data now about what reopening, having people more around one another, what that will mean in terms of cases. Two weeks out from memorial day. We saw all the images of places, people going out without masks. Im sure we all have our own anecdotal experiences about what people are doing and arent doing. What can we show now at this point . Yeah, you know, i think theres sort of a few things happening at the same time. Memorial day weekend, just over two weeks ago, obviously these protests that weve seen, states reopening, and then you add into that equation states are doing more testing, maybe still not enough, but thats going to add to the number of people who are diagnosed with the infection as well. I think, chris, what i have been following, you want to follow the hospitalizations, also. If you see sort of the upward trend of both cases and of hospitalizations, that gives you a sense that youre really seeing growing numbers of infections and more people getting sick. If youre just seeing increased cases but the same level of hospitalizations, thats probably more reflective of testing. I think its a little early to tell. As you know, you know, if you take memorial day weekend as a point in time, two to three weeks after that. So i really over this next week have been watching, and you do see several states that have not only gone up but have gone up by 50 over the last several days. Many of those states are states that reopened the beginning of may. You add memorial weekend on top of that, and that sort of leads to this problem. And theyll push back with were testing more, but the two arent mutually exclusive. You can be testing more and have a jump in cases because youre having more contagion. Thats right, and you know, thats why i think you also got to look at the hospitalizations as well because, you know, people who are getting sick from this in higher numbers, that would be more suggestive that in fact its a more widespread contagion. Obviously people who die, thats another point in time. Now, quickly i have been tracking this because i believe when the books are written by people like you, we will look back and say, boy, we had more time to prepare, we had to take this seriously, anecdotically you and i and everyone watching this right now have been hearing from people saying, you know, i think i had it, and some are getting tested and seeing they have anti bodies from months ago, now, a new harvard study says coronavirus may have started to spread in china as early as last august. Okay. Based on satellite images showing increased traffic in wuhan hospital parking lots and increased internet searches for symptoms related to virus. Whats your take . This is fascinating, chris, i mean, this is a really fascinating study. Youre looking at these satellite images of parking lots. Youre comparing it to years past, wow, its a lot more crowded in october of 19 versus 18 or however theyre looking at it. Its interesting. Its an interesting way to collect this sort of data, and i think it probably does mean something. In your legal world, this is circumstantial evidence, maybe not the best quality evidence but i think its highly suggestive. You add into that something else, which i think you saw in that study, chris, search terms for the word cough, and i believe die rhea wearrhea as we up for this. People are getting sick, going online, what do these symptoms mean, going to the hospitals more often. Its quite likely. The only thing that throws a wrench into it a little bit, i think we have the graph looking at country in the United States, really you see the peak of coronavirus cases and infections sort of in mid april here, and sort of bounced around since then. If it was really here the lot earlier, would we have seen a peak earlier, and i get it, we werent necessarily hooking because we didnt think it was here that much earlier, but still, if you look at the overall growth there, you see it really start in middle of march. Now, maybe there were cases earlier but were there a lot of cases earlier . When did you really start to get this exponential growth like youre seeing on that graph. It took a while to get to that point. I think youre right, though, and i have to give you credit. You said in the fall even of last year, there may have been cases of coronavirus in this country, and now when you look at the data, its probably correct. If there were people in august being infected in china, a big city, and people flying out, im sure they were going all over the world. Its not an i told you so. Im right about things all the time, i dont get credit. Im wrong twice as often. Thats okay, it all balances out. What im saying is preparedness and what we look for and how we are aware, what our Early Warning system is. Thats why it matters. Dont sleep on circumstantial evidence. The overwhelming amount of cases are made on circumstantial evidence. What is direct evidence is you always being a plus. Why is it direct evidence, Everybody Knows it who sees you do your job. Thank you, brother, be well. I appreciate that, chris. Thank you. San gjay gupta. When i come back, a quick thought as we go into dawn about where we are today in terms of what happens next. We all know we cant stay where we are with things as they are. So what will make the difference . Next. Hey lily from at t here. Im back and while most stores are open, im working from home and here to help. Heres a tip get halfoff the amazing iphone 11 on at t, americas Fastest Network for iphones. Second tip you can put googly eyes on your stuff to keep yourself company. Uh for example, thats heraldo. Hes my best friend. 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Make them fear you more than trump. Time for don lemon right now. How are you feeling today or tonight . I feel worried. I feel worried. I feel sad for the obvious reasons of pain that was, you know, you have to give it to the family and all that came together in houston. They put their pain to purpose. And that was a beautiful thing to see, but it makes you worried about where we go next, because don, we cannot stay where we are. Im not talking revolution, rebellion and riots and all