For all the doubt, we do know something, and it is amazing. Even illness becomes wellness. That saying was from malcolm x. We must be together as ever as one. Lets get at it. All right. Our nations top Infectious Disease expert just said today there is a drug that may be able to block this virus. If you look at the time to recovery being shorter in the remdesivir arm, it was 11 days compared to 15 days. Thats a p value, for the scientists who are listening, of 0. 001. So thats something that, although a 31 improvement, doesnt seem like a knockout 100 . It is a very important proof of concept, because what it has proven is that a drug can block this virus. Okay. Lets all say the name of the drug together. Ready . Remdesivir. The drug is called remdesivir. Youre going to hear it a lot. Its not easy to say. But now you know. The fda has reportedly fast tracked it. Thats whats happening right now, for emergency use. That was dr. Fauci, obviously, talking about the drug. He says the data shows it does have a clearcut effect in diminishing a patients recovery time. Not a cure. It diminishes recovery time, like tamiflu. So what is the real deal about who it helps and how much . We all want a cure, lets be very clear. But we cant invest in hype or false hope. It only weakness our ability to have the resolve to fight the disease. The good news, a key researcher behind the Clinical Trial for the drug is our guest tonight, dr. Andre khalil. Doc, thank you very much for being on prime time. Thank you, i appreciate it. I appreciate you, youre our best guest for this. What is behind your enthusiasm about this drugs efficacy and what do you believe the efficacy to be . This is a very important question, chris. Im one of the principal investigators for the nih trial. This trial was run mostly in the United States with about 50 sites here, 20 sites outside the United States, south korea, singapore, japan, germany, and spain. So this is a very large trial, sponsored by the nih. There was a large group of very experienced investigators at the university of nebraska, the principal investigator. We started this trial right on february 21st. We enrolled the very first patient in this very important trial in february. It was one of the patients that came on the cruise, the diamond princess cruise. This trial, actually the very interesting aspect of this trial is that a very strict methodology, as strict as it can be in terms of a scientific methodology. So its legit, it wasnt too small a sample, it wasnt double blind, it was peerreviewed, it checks all the boxes. Absolutely, chris. Importantly, its not peerreviewed yet. Not peerreviewed. The preliminary results are so important that we decided this has to be out to the public, that everyone has to know, because the results are so significant that we cannot just hold and wait for the whole process to go through and see whats going to happen, because we believe lets talk about why that is, doctor. Lets be very clear. Youre a researcher. Youre a highly skilled academic and clinician, youre not a politician. Im not asking you to sell the drug to people. But wall street went crazy. And releasing preliminary data is unusual. You are saying the same thing dr. Fauci said, which is yeah, but this data matters so much that we need it to get out. Why does it matter so much . Its not like this is a pill that youll take where you can never get this, its not like a vacci vaccine. Why did you think the research was so important that it needed to come out . Great question, chris. Here is the deal. This is really, really important. This is what ive done for 20 years. Im very much, as you said, im a clinician, i take care of patients. This is really what i do for life, thats my 24 7 activity. And, you know, when we participate in a trial that strict, it has to be robust, double blind, single control, with the sponsorship of the nih. There is no trial that has been done with such strict methodology. Thats very important, because as you know, there is a lot of fake science out there. This is absolutely true science. And thats why im participating in this trial because i believe this trial really could bring some important findings. All right. So none of the chloroquine stink is on this study. This was done in a different way so you have more confidence in it. But why are the preliminary findings so potent . What is the eureka moment here that people have to know right now . So there is two things that are very important for me. And im seeing that not only as a researcher, as a clinician, as somebody who takes care of patients every day. The two findings we know today that dr. Fauci mentioned was, one, that the time to recovery is reduced by four days. This is not a small deal. This is a big deal, because its four days, from 15, 14 days, about a third of the time that patients are going to require oxygen, are going to require respiratory support, are going to require being in the hospital. Why this is important, if you would ask me if i would stay drugged state for two weeks in a hospital or two weeks minus four days, there was nobody that would say they would prefer to stay the full two weeks. Every day you stay in the hospital, you have increased risk of complications. Understood. From the patient perspective, this is definitely something very important because youre going to really have a third reduction in your time for recovery. The second thing as important as well is that there was a trend, even though the trial was not powered for mortality, but there was a trend for improving mortality from 11. 6 to 8 with remdesivir. 3 reduction in death . Exactly. If you put together, almost 4 reduction in death, with four days reduction on the need for hospital and respiratory support, this is not something to take lightly, especially when it comes from a trial that is that robust. This is not a cure. Lets talk about that. If you brought the mortality down to zero and you had absolutely 100 this is not a cure, this is a treatment. Thats why the trial i totally get it. To look for other therapies as well. This is the beginning of the process. So lets talk context here. Tamiflu, which people are familiar with, you get the flu, you get the pill of tamiflu, i know this isnt a pill, its an iv treatment that has to be done in the hospital at this point, but thats not a cure either, right . It reduces the length of the flu. Thats the same dynamic were talking about here. In terms of whom it is great information for, not me, somebody who had a nasty case but stayed home, or somebody who gets a case and doesnt have to go in the hospital or somebody who goes in the hospital but doesnt have an extreme case. This is a drug that at least as tested, was about extreme cases in the hospital where this was an iv treatment. So were not talking about something that is a pill that we can pop and it will make what you deal with at home shorter in duration. So this is a very limited population were talking about with the drug. Is that a fair point . Its a very fair point. Im glad that you brought this up. This is a very fair and very important point. This drug is only to be given for people with moderate to severe covid disease. These are patients who not only have the infection but they have the infection already spread to the lungs, causing pneumonia. Theyre required to be hospitalized. Theyre required to receive oxygen or be on ventilation. These are definitely patients that are in the more severe spectrum of the disease. And that was the goal of the Clinical Trial. This is not a medication that should be given to anyone that doesnt meet the inclusion criteria. You have to have pneumonia from the virus, you have to be in the hospital requiring respiratory support or requiring oxygen. It is an intravenous medication that needs a catheter to be administered as well. Let me get one Public Policy point before i run out of time. I want to say in advance, dr. Kalil, i know how busy you are with processing this study and your other clinical work, i really appreciate you taking the time, because the country is hearing about this now, they need to hear it straight right now and theyre not going to get a better source than you, you have no agenda other than the science. People hear about this, remdesivir, this is it, this is the cure, stop with all this isolation, the mass craziness, we have something that will keep us from dying, lets reopen, lets be more ambitious. What is your caution . Well, i can tell with 100 certainty, remdesivir is should not change, you know, even with the data we have, with the positive data that we can shorten the time of disease, we can potentially save lives, remdesivir will not do anything to in terms of Public Health. Remdesivir is strictly going to benefit people with moderate or severe disease that are in the hospital. Just having the remdesivir available, lets say its approved, its going to be a great benefit for patients who are very sick from covid in the hospital. But when it comes to Public Health, remdesivir will have absolutely no impact, because remdesivir is not a drug to be used to prevent the infection, its not a drug to be used in somebody with a mild infection who is at home who will improve without any medications. Remdesivir is for a very specific small proportion of patients that get really sick, that have a high risk of death. This is the Patient Population that will benefit from remdesivir. It should not have any Significant Impact in terms of Public Health policy, in terms of opening or closing. This is a whole different subject that will not be influenced by the availability of remdesivir. This is a very important thing to understand. Prevention and treatment are two very Different Things and should not be accusconfused at all. The hopeful thing is we finally have a tool in the box. Remdesivir is the first thing we know with Science Behind it, you can give to someone who is in x extremis, and it will help them. If you, dr. Kalil, and your team, thank you for killing yourself to get this Research Done so soon. Thank you, sir. God bless you and your family. Stay healthy. Thank you, its a team effort, investigators all over the world. Its a huge team effort. University of nebraska. Its really an effort of so many people. And i cannot thank everyone here, but its just the beginning. Were going to find more treatments and more things that hopefully will improve the lives of all these patients being affected by the disease. Thanks so much for the opportunity, chris. Doctor, thank you, it made a big difference, i cant get a better source for my audience than you. Be well. Appreciate it. Quick sumup. We finally have a tool in the box. Were losing way too many people. You know the ratio of people who go on ventilators to get off . Its not good. In fact its shockingly bad. Now theres something that maybe will help. Its for the worst cases, the moderate to severe in the hospital. At least we have something. Now, is it a cause to leave your house and to start being cavalier . No. And i dont know why people are hyping it that way online. I dont know why wall street traded up the way it did on this, i dont know, other than that its organized gambling. It is cause for hope. But it is not a cure. We dont have to worry less about getting the disease because of this, all right . Now, reopening talk, okay . Its as contagious as anything, i know im hearing it, youre hearing it, we all want to get going. A big part of the equation is masks. To be honest, i dont know what the heck the deal is. Lets bring in sanjay gupta. Weve gone full cycle on this. Nobody needs masks, dont touch the masks, let other people have the masks. Now Everybody Needs the masks. Whats the deal and why . Next. It relieves stress off of me to let me know im doing something good for the community, not just papa johns. 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The day before yesterday, pence stood there proud, next to trump, and told you all, be proud today because this is momentous. The massive step that the federal government took in working with the states to get testing prep to a whole new level so we can reopen. Literally monday. And now the president says he doesnt even know if testing is necessary . Listen. Let let them explain to the faithful how its okay that he said this. It is not okay. Its pandering to ignorance. As a result, are you surprised that states, especially red states, right, almost all of the 21 states that are going to lift restrictions early on businesses and otherwise, where are they going to get their guidance . Why should they believe anything hard and fast . It doesnt appear any of those states met the federal guidelines of 14 days of cases on the decline. But can you be surprised . When the president changes his message every other day . Liberate your states. Dont stay home. Testing is everything. Im not so sure about testing. Of course youre going to have this. And it is just appalling from leadership. Thats not playing politics. Its truth. Now, lets get truth on Something Else here. Lets bring in dr. Sanjay gupta and talk about masks, okay . Now, i happen to have a very fetching mask that a friend of mine made for me. I will model it for you. Look. It is made to cover even a pie hole as big as mine. This was made by my beautiful young friend selay, sanjays daughter. It is a beautiful fabric mask. Doc, you and i have been talking masks it seems photographforeve it seems like weve gone in a 360 about it. Well, yeah, youre right. Initially the guidance was you dont need masks because first of all, the masks that Health Care Workers are using, you save those for Health Care Workers. There was a shortage of them. So the other types of masks likes the one youre showing there werent necessarily designed to protect the user. I think what changed at some point several weeks ago was the acknowledgement that a mask like that could protect other people from the user. So if you wore that mask out in public, chris, and you had the virus, you could actually decrease the amount of virus that you would shed into the environment. So its a way to mitigate the spread. Its not perfect by any means. The n95 fitted mask, thats the one thats actually going to be the best in terms of protecting the user. But a mask like this would offer some benefit towards decreasing the amount of virus being put out into the environment. Thats a good thing. Especially as were trying to slow down the spread. That was the thinking, chris. It seems to have become a little bit of a touchstone for people. That if you have to wear a mask, thats a severe restriction, thats the real deal. I talked to governor dewine last night, in ohio, and he had an interesting, and honest and candid answer, for why he was not making it mandatory to wear a mask in a retail store. His answer was simple. Im not making it mandatory, no, dont do that to us, we dont want to wear them when we go into retail stores. What is it about the mask, sanjay, that you think is such a litmus test about whether a restriction is tolerated . I think its three things. One is the point that you just made. It hasnt been explained very well to people. I think they lost a little bit of faith in the explanation. Wait, you told me i dont need them, now you tell me i need them, so i dont trust you guys anymore. Second is the liberty, dont tell me what i can and cant do. The third is this idea, the misconception, people arent doing it to protect themselves. You know, if i frame the reasoning and saying, hey, look, youre not doing it to protect yourself, youre doing it to protect the people around you, youre doing it so you dont spread the virus which you may have in your nose and mouth and not even realize it because you could be completely without symptoms and still have the virus and still be spreading it. I think if people were to understand that better, maybe they would be more likely to do it. If you can keep a safe distance from someone, you probably dont need it. But its hard, as people start to go out more in public, and you dont know, did i keep a safe sixfoot distance around me for the entire time i was out . If youre not confident you can do that, you should wear a mask so you dont inadvertently infect someone else. Something really interesting i saw from the reopenings, every state that is reopening has created a new assumption in the impact models that the white house is using. And every addition to it has increased the death projection. Each week the death projection is going up. Now, is that just a natural assu assumptive consequence of time or is there an added boost from early reopenings . The early reopenings are definitely fueling changes in the models. Ive talked to the people who author the models and asked them, what are the inputs, how are they coming up up with these numbers, and that definitely feeds into it. This is not looking as much like a curve in many places, it looks like a plateau. Weve gotten up to a certain amount and its sort of flattened out there. Flattening the curve is what were supposed to do, not create a plateau. Thats why youre seeing a significant change in numbers. Chris, ill remind you, just over a month ago, the same modelers, imhe modelers, said the death toll would be 90,000, and they rueduced it to 60,000. Why . Because the stayathome orders were working, people were abiding by it, they were checking peoples cellphone data, checking their mobility, anonymously, obviously, trying to figure out were people staying at home. The answer was yes, more than they expected. So that brought the numbers down. But now the numbers have flattened, thats made the projected numbers start going up. And then this last point, how do we account for the reopening in these models . Ive got to tell you, and i dont mean to poke fun at the modelers because this is hard work, but all these models are wrong. Some are useful, as we say. The range is huge. Like if you look at the imhe model, the range is somewhere between 40,000 and 140,000. We focus on the middle number, but its a huge range theyre providing which kind of basically is, you know, understandable. We really dont know for certain where this is headed. Right now, the projected numbers of deaths do seem to be going up. Look, to be fair to them, you know, you get asked to model a projection with an assumption built in that a state has to have 14 days of cases trending down. Right. Not just a slowed increased rate. And so you must start doing your modeling and your projections. And now, none of the 21 states that are reopening or about to reopen have met the standard. Your model is shot. You dont have a chance of having any real accuracy on that. Thats right. The hard part of it is, nobody is correcting it. The president came out today and said, i dont even know that testing is needed. So why even have it . Why use it as a standard . That was surprising. Many people i know around the president , i talk to many people on the Coronavirus Task force, have told him, is telling him, will continue to tell him, that testing is important. Its the pivotal thing. You cant make any other decisions unless you have eyes on this and its going to continue to be important. We will argue, i think people will argue about what is the right number of tests that are needed. And, you know, the harvard roadmap, they say ultimately by july you need 20 million tests a day. And just to clarify, that doesnt mean, you know, the population of the country is only 350 million, roughly, so several people will get tested several times in order to give people confidence in order to return to the workplace. Maybe the answer is somewhere in between, maybe its not 20 million a day, who knows what its going to be, but its a lot more, chris, by all accounts, than were doing now. Look, what were really going to battle ultimately is going to be the x factor of fatigue. And, you know, my best sense from my reporting and my knowledge of the players is that the president is betting on fatigue, that people are going to get tired of this, theyre going to want to reopen, and every little suggestion, liberate your states, i dont even know that testing is necessary, all these little things, hyping up the drug that they came up with today, making it sound like its almost a cure. This is all to push people towards fatigue and that will be the biggest battle. Well see how it plays out. I think well see it sooner than expected. Dr. Sanjay gupta, you are a gift. Thank you for being on the show tonight. You got it, chris, any time. And thank your daughter for the mask, its awesome. I cant believe ive kept it away from the girls so long, because this is the best looking thing in the house, and it covers my mouth, which is a bonus. California has been taking a much more cautious approach than any of the 21 states reopening now. Why . What do they see that other states are discounting or ignoring altogether . We have the mayor of los angeles here. Another lucky guest. Why . His city is about to be the first city in the nation to do something that is very significant. What is it . Next. I have always wanted to be a teacher. With everything going on, weve had to alter our classroom settings. We have to transition into Virtual Learning to make sure that the education is continuing. vo verizon and the New York Times are offering 14 Million Students free Digital Access to times journalism. You get way more than free shipping. You get thousands when you shop for your home at wayfair of items you need to your door fast the way it works best for you. Even the big stuff. You get a delivery experience you can always count on. You get your perfect find at a price to match on your schedule. You get free two day shipping on things that make your home feel like you wayfair. Way more than furniture. There is one thing we can all do together complete the 2020 census. Your responses are critical to plan for the next 10 years of health care, education, and more. Go online to 2020census. Gov and help shape americas future. Go online to 2020census. Gov it only takes a second for an everyday item to become dangerous. Tide pods childguard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. Align, press and unzip. Tide pods. Keep them up. Keep them closed. Keep them safe. We think we have it under control. We have very little problem in this country. But did they . One day its like a miracle. It will disappear. Cnns jake tapper investigates what really happened. Public Health Officials were telling me they knew this virus was spreading. While the president was talking about 15 case going to 49. 50 daddy, i found you good job. Now im gonna stay here and you go hide. Watch your favorites from anywhere in the house with the Xfinity Stream app. Free with your xfinity service. Now any room can be a tv room. Stream live tv, on demand shows and movies, even your dvr recordings. Download the Xfinity Stream app today to stream the entertainment you love. Some Important News to tell you about tonight. L. A. Is going to become the first major city to offer free covid tests to everyone. Now, its a generous move but its also a nod to desperation. Why . You know nothing if you dont test and you cant trace. You dont know what kind of scale of what problem youre having, especially when you talk about big population centers. We are so clueless about the reality, we dont even know how many dead there are because of that. Numbers in the state are stabilizing in california, okay . But theyre still going up. So lets bring in the mayor of los angeles, obviously mayor Eric Garcetti has become a household name. Welcome back to prime time. Great to be with you. You look good. I like the high and tight, the new haircut. You this. The mrs. Did it. The joke is she started with a straight blade. My wife gave me a haircut that looks good in front but uneven in the back, but you cant see it and i cant see it so im happy. What are you doing, garcetti . I dont even think you need all that tests, im not even sure theyre necessary. Thats what the president said today. And here you are, letting everybody get tested for free. Obviously youre going to favor people with symptoms, but why are you wasting the money . The testings not even that important, says the president. I have a different philosophy. We all know this is a silent killer. It moves quietly through the population. Oftentimes the people who dont show symptoms are the super spreaders. They dont know they have the infection. We set up our own Testing Programs with our firefighters, paying for it with our own dollars and looking for our own labs. That was 40 days ago. 40 days later, were very proud to have the first widespread testing for nonsymptomatic people in a major american city. I think its something we can hopefully all get towards. Because even when we do that, its still not enough tests, as youve heard. But its a great and bold step forward. Im very proud of our firefighters and everybody who has helped stand this up. When you offer the tests, do you have the money, the manpower, and the materials to apply all those tests, to get them processed, and do it in a timely fashion, and find people who have it and may have contacted others . We believe so. And weve been, you know, opening that aperture, weve been widening who can get tested every single day. Yesterday it was construction workers. The day before, it was taxi drivers and ride share drivers. The week before, it was people without symptoms who work in Critical Industries like our medical profession and first responders, grocery clerks. So each step weve taken, at the end of the day we still have additional tests left. To us, this was a good sign. Even on the first day, we were telling people with no symptoms they could get tests, we thought we would be overwhelmed, we werent. We believe together we can offer to everybody living in the county of los angeles starting tomorrow, with or without symptoms, we can offer you tests, get you those results back in a day, two, maximum these days is three, and also go into places like our senior homes, our Homeless Population and have a whole other surge in those areas, because those folks cant necessarily come to testing centers, and thats a critical part of the strategy. Perspective. Florida over the weekend, the beaches, people go, theyre all over the place. It does not slow down Governor Desantis decision to move forward with reopening. California had a similar thing happen in areas where people were all over the beaches. The word is that it was a set of breaks for both the city and the state level, that we are not ready to do anything aggressive. Why was the same stimulus, people going to the beach, cause for completely opposite conclusions for two different states . Why didnt you see it the way florida did, which was people want to get back out there, garcetti, let them do it. I think as long as we do these steps in a smart way, we assess how great is the need, first. Second, how big is the risk. And then third, what Safety Measures can you apply to deal with that risk, that theres nothing we wont be able to do necessarily until the future, but we have to be really careful. And as a region, we have to move together. Los angeles county kept the beaches closed but to the north and south of us, some were open. In san diego, they thought about it carefully, they spaced people out. In australia they open beaches from 6 00 to 9 00 in the morning for exercise, thats it. Youre not getting people loitering and tanning and being close to each other. So i dont think you have to take anything off the table. Just be really smart and dont be overly anxious. This isnt about scoring political points. This is about saving lives while were restoring a slightly better quality of life and Economic Press pert osperity to. Why not you have a little break because of the summer schedule for schools, but schools are the bogeyman. You dont want to mess with schools and kids, because if it goes wrong, the political payback will be harsh and fast. But you cant get people back to work if you cant get their kids back to school. Now, again, the summer gives you a little bit of a hedge, because a lot of kids arent in school in the summer. But do you accept that reality, that until you can make it safe enough to send kids back to school, you cant really get people back to work . No question. You know, a mother or father cant go back to work with peace of mind if their kids are by themselves at home. We have to think about the kids first. They need to catch up on their education, they need to move forward with their development. But secondarily, youre exactly right, chris. This is an economic issue, its a childcare issue. Lets not forget those kids that even as we open up schools with new rules that have preexisting conditions, theyre not going to go back to school anytime soon. And we have to make sure we take care of them, provide for them to get an education at home, even as teachers are in the classroom. This is going to be tough on teachers, its going to be challenging for school districts. We do have time to think that through for the fall. As we see in denmark or everywhere, maybe its fewer hours, fewer kids at a time. But we have to get kids back to the classroom and im confident we can find safe ways to do that, especially with temperature checks, tests at the schools as well. Im hearing a few hours in a lot of places. That would be so sad, we already dont have our kids in school enough. But you have to deal with the situation as you find it. Mayor Eric Garcetti, i appreciate it. One last quick thing, as far as you know on the state level, is california still resolved to follow the cdc guideline of 14 days of cases on the way down before reopening . Thats the measure that our governor put out there. Whether it be a formal measure or not, because sometimes you get more and more tests, you see it go up artificially just because more people are getting tested. But looking at deaths for sure, and hospital admissions, those are the two biggest ones. And lastly, let me just say, i appreciate what you said about masks. I dont know if its a guy thing but real men wear masks and we shouldnt be afraid of being seen with masks. So ill go out on this one. Lets see, let me test you. What is is the movie where andre the giant said men in masks cannot be trusted . Princess bride, of course. Take care, mr. Mayor. That was a good line. Have fun storming the castle. Who said it . Billy crystal. Who was his wife . Carol kane. Floridas governor bragged at the white house how well his state is faring in comparison to others in this fight. What we may not know is the full picture, specifically this. There has been growing curiosity about the death toll in this country from covid. Two reasons. One, it aint easy to count. Why . Because there are a lot of people who died without being tested, so you dont know what the cause of death was. Thats a fair reason. Then theres another reason that may be specific to florida in particular. Medical examiners saying officials are blocking them from releasing their own list of coronavirus deaths. Is there any good reason for that . Lets talk to a journalist who is deep inside and helped break the story, next. When bugs move in we stress out and spray. And spray. And spray. Well, we used to. With new ortho home defense max indoor insect barrier, one simple application kills and prevents bugs in your home for up to a year without odors, stains or fuss. Its the modern way to keep bugs away. New ortho home defense max. Bugs gone. Stress gone. When you think of a bank, you think of people in a place. But when you have the chase mobile app, your bank can be virtually any place. So, when you get a check. You can deposit it from here. And you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. You can save for an emergency from here. Or pay bills from here. So when someone asks you, wheres your bank . You can tell them heres my bank. Or heres my bank. Or, heres my bank. 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Many people taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear skin, and, had significantly less itch. Thats a difference you can feel. Dont use if youre allergic to dupixent. Serious allergic reactions can occur, including anaphylaxis, which is severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, or a parasitic infection. If you take asthma medicines, dont change or stop them without talking to your doctor. So help heal your skin from within. And talk to your eczema specialist about dupixent. All right. Look, i know the numbers that are flying all over the place. I know its hard to trust them. Im going to give you reason to be distrustful of the numbers. Florida. Its a story where medical examiners, who keep counting deaths and all sorts of emergencies, its a typical public protocol, its something you always have access to, you pay for it, why shouldnt you have access to it, especially now . The Tampa Bay Times reports that florida made the medical examiners stop releasing that information to you. Kathleen mcgrory was digging into this for the times when the state pulled the data. Kathleen, thank you for joining us on prime time. Can you see and hear me . Hi, yes, i can hear you. Dont adjust your camera, its a very extreme haircut. You went out of your way, okay, to layer the reporting about the different rationales for holding the data. But i think they all stink. I mean, they didnt give you one good reason other than privacy of people with covid. But since when is that a Public Policy exception for putting out data on a mass scale . Yeah, they havent quite provided us a reason for why theyre withholding this information yet. And were still pushing for it. But its still not information weve gotten. Weve been asking for it for about ten days. You got an answer from the Governors Office which was basically, were awesome. But look, there is curiosity going all over the country about the numbers. But usually its because there hasnt been enough testing to understand why people may have met their demise and whether or not it was covid. Thats not what youre dealing with in tampa bay. What were you hearing from medical examiners about their darker suspicions about why they were being told to stop doing something that they always do routinely . Right. I mean, so youre absolutely right. The medical examiners have been counting the dead in times of statewide crisis since 1992. Its kind of pro forma for them to be compiling this list. You know, and i have been doing some reporting a few weeks ago, just some very basic reporting to try to learn what the medical examiners were seeing on the ground. And somebody said, why dont you get this list . I said, okay, that makes sense. So i requested the list from the medical Examiners Commission. I got it. And a colleague and i wrote a story about it. At the time, the medical Examiners Commission list, the count was about 10 higher than the official state count. And we wrote about that. We wrote some differences between the two counts, and then a couple of days later i attempted to get an updated copy of that list, something journalists do all the time, and was told i couldnt get a copy of that list anymore. There were some conflicting reasons why. At first i was told that it was confidential, then i was told that the state might need to redact it, you know, and thats kind of the situation that were in right now. You know, in talking to some of the medical examiners, what theyre telling us is that this decision was precipitated by a call from the state department of health. And we know that the state department of health has tried to apply some pressure to some other agencies to keep this data under wraps. And thats kind of informed where we are right now in our thinking. And what is the official and then the unofficial feeling about why they would want to keep it under wraps . Yeah. Well, the i dont know that theres an official reason necessarily. Again, because they havent given us a reason yet. You know, theyre telling us that they have some privacy concerns around this data. Its its questionable if if once you are deceased if the same type of privacy, you know, protections apply to you, but i think the unofficial thinking behind is that, you know, the state just doesnt want this number out there. Its another number. Its confusing. And some Public Health experts have been critical of the way that the state is keeping its count of the dead here in florida. How so . Well, so there are two different ways of doing this, right . The medical examiners are counting the dead based on the county in which the person died and the state in which the person died. Now, the state department of health is looking specifically at florida residents. So in order to be included in the states count of covid, you have to have been a fulltime resident of the state of florida. Why does that matter . Well, we have a lot of snowbirds in florida. A lot of seasonal residents, parttime residents, right . So Public Health experts are telling us for the count to exclude those people who were infected in florida, who died in florida, you know, and to exclude them because their drivers license says new york or ohio, that thats not really painting an accurate picture of the epidemic here in florida. And most snowbirds, by the way, are obviously later in life, people who are more susceptible to this virus. Exactly. And its more deadly for them as well. One other quick thing. Have you guys found any other example of where on any type of scale the state used privacy to redact or remove cause of death and disclosure of the same in the state . Well, the miami herald has done some terrific reporting. We know that the state department of health reached out to the miamidade medical examiner and actually asked them or advised them not to release their information about deaths to the miami herald. Citing a law that applies very specifically its a statutory exemption to our public records laws that applies very specifically to records created for the state department of health. Right. And the county attorneys in miamidade read that or, you know, had that communication. They read the statute and then they decided they didnt buy it, you know, they thought that their death records were still public record, and they did, in fact, give them to the miami herald. You know, weve seen other instances where the Desantis Administration has not been as forthcoming with information as reporters would have liked. For a while, the Desantis Administration was releasing the aggregate number of people who had the infection. Right. In Nursing Homes, but not specifically which Nursing Homes had infections. It wasnt until a coalition of newspapers led by the herald that the Tampa Bay Times threatened to sue that the public got the information they need. I was just asking the question because in looking into the story today, i couldnt find another example, at least over the last ten years, of the state keeping death information on the basis of privacy. There that one discreet law, well, this was only done for our own internal purposes, but in terms of these disclosures, theyve never used privacy because of the cause of death before. Anyway, kathleen, thank you very much for the reporting you guys are doing. This is going to go much deeper, kathleen mcgrory, youre welcome here to tell the story as it continues. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks. Now, mcgrory was already the Florida State response, you know, surplus of fairness is reporting deaths by residency is the appropriate method utilized to calculate disease rates which allow for a more accurate analysis of disease impacts on populations through the incorporation of demographic data. A critical aspect of Public Health planning. Now, listen, i dont buy it. Why . Because whether youre a resident or not, if youre in a place and they have to figure out Public Health planning, they have to plan for the people that are there. And if they were so concerned about this nature if youre not a fulltime resident were not really going to worry about you then the whole spring break things starts to make a little more sense, why they let people come down who werent residents, party their asses off, spread the disease and go back to all these different states, all right . Thats the statement from the state. Doesnt make a lot of sense. Youre going to hear a lot more about this. Well be right back. Before your own. First to ps and in an emergency, you need a network that puts you first. That connects you to technology to each other and to other agencies. Built with and for first responders. Firstnet. The only officially authorized Wireless Network for first responders. Because putting you first is our job. To ewhether youreting these uncaring for your. Family at home or those at work, principal is by your side. Were working hard to answer your questions. Like helping you understand what the recently passed economic package can mean for you. Were more than a financial company. Were a together we can get through anything company. Now, more than ever. Since 1926, nationwide weve been there in person, during trying times. Today, being on your side means staying home. Nationwide office of customer advocacy. But we can still support you and the heroes who are with you. Were giving refunds on Auto Insurance premiums, assisting customers with financial hardships, and our foundation is contributing millions of dollars to charities helping with covid19 relief. Keeping our promise to be on your side. Lets bring in d. Lemon. I want to thank you for watching, of course. Cnn tonight starts right now with my man. I want to read you a quote rosily gave me tonight, don. Listen to this. Hold on. I got to get it here. Give me a second. You want me to tell you your code . Its 437 no, im kidding. Here it is. When i is replaced by we. Uhhuh. Even illness becomes wellness. Thats from malcolm x. Isnt that great and apropos of where we are right now . Come on now, rosily. That is strong. When she sent it to me, i was like, who said that . Malcolm x. I said check it twice. Shut up and use it. When i was getting plugged in something about florida. What were you getting fired up on