Dick cheney is a robot many indisputable proof, big foot spotted in northern california, and mans 174 mile per hour sneeze blows wifes hair off. Over on fox, the feeling was, the interview went pretty well. You and i frayeded a lot of papers ah, and its been a good conversation, thank you, sir. Thank you very much. With that, a friendly reminder, theres always a paper trail on the ridiculis. Thank you, anderson. Well argued. I am chris cuomo, welcome to prime time. The president making the case that he has done nothing wrong. This case seems to be plagued by contradictions. Were going to test them with Kellyanne Conway. And the president s good friend says the president was in the room when the plan was hatched to pay off women who threatened
his campaign. Legal exposure for that . Well take it up in cuomos court. Criminal prosecution is a maybe. Political skrut any, 100 . Specifically if the president is shown to be lying about key issues. How bad could it be . Lots to test, lets get after it. Donald trump not only knew about the plan for payments to help his campaign, he was at the meeting that hatched the plan. Who says . Reportedly his friend who ran the enquirer, david pecker who was also at the meeting. Brings up once again that haunting question, why lie if you had nothing to hide. I want to put this string of contradictions to the white
house counsel. Merry christmas, christopher. I have to take issue with the way you stated things as if theyre fact. Please. You just stated things as if they were fact. Look at what we have now, snark and bark against the president. You have federal election commissioners, former ones, people who are Election Law Experts saying that just because people who said they that they were asked to commit a crime here, theres not a crime. One guy said today that Michael Cohen pled guilty to something thats not a crime. His whole point in that article that people should read is that if you, for example, if you were going to do something anyway, irrespective of you being a federal candidate for office, its not a campaign expense, its a personal expense. Otherwise, successful entrepreneurs who want lawsuits to go away, maybe to save embarrassment toward their family or to just get rid of species or false claims if
theyve ever been a candidate for federal office it would count as a campaign expense. Thats not the current case. And its not the current case. We have robert ray on the show tonight. Well thats the lawyer youre speaking about, well have him on the show later today. No, not im not talking about him, im talking about civosky and bradley. People who are experts in this field. Right, but im not i dont im not in the speculation business. Im talking about facts. David pecker was at the meeting. You are no, youre not. He said the president was at the meeting. Thats a fact. So you like to no, no, no. Stop saying words facts and lies. That is a fact by expedition. Do you get an extra 100 every time. I wish. You are saying that a year, one year before i became Chain Manager for the winning part of the campaign and never was
involved in anything of this sort, nothing, zero. When he fully good thing to call out right now. By the way. No, no, this is important. This is important. This is important, christopher, this is very important, youre talking about a full year before that, relatively early in the primary season, youre talking about people saying we did this in further answer of the election. There is just no proof of that, that is somebodys opinion. And why was i never why did we do nothing like this, why was i not told anything like this. If were really beating hillary, if she cant get above 50 in these 10 or 11 states where President Obama carried, we can pull the rip cord and we have this going for us. It makes no sense. Under the argument. It may not make sense, but theyre just facts, kellyanne. No, no, theyre not facts. You dont know Michael Cohen hatched the plan. President trump has said that i never directed anybody to do that. I know he said that. But it shows
but why the evidence shows otherwise. Where do you see the evidence christopher. The tape we have no, your agenda wants you to show otherwise. You want me to let me know when youre ready. Before you do that, lets stipulate something as happily former attorneys both of us. Still licensed. You are stipulating things as fact because you want them to be fact. Untrue. You want them to be true. Untrue. You imkbu credibility to people depending on who they are, and what not true, these are diversionary tactics. No we have a tape with President Trump and Michael Cohen discussing the transaction. David pecker saying the president knew, he was present and we did it in order to help his campaign. Fact, fact, fact. No, no, no, that is not what he that is what he thought he was doing. He wasnt part of the campaign, in fact, every single time that you that cnn has referred to david pecker or may i say
Michael Cohen, youve never said they were part of the campaign. They dont have to be part of the campaign. You had Michael Cohen, who ive known for 12 years and served on a Trump World Tower board with, ive known him for a long time. Every time cnn had Michael Cohen on as a guest, you identified him as the executive Vice President of the trump corporation. You never said he was on the campaign. Why is that relevant . You want these things to be in furtherance it doesnt have to be why is it not a fact that the president of the United States said he has never directed Michael Cohen to break the law. He hired counsel and he believes counsel, advice of counsel, professionals are paid to do what theyre being asked to do. Fair point, kellyanne. Wheres your knowingly and willfully. Lets lay it out, this is one of the contradictions. No, not a fair point, a fact. A fact. Fine, call it a fact. You should be able to follow your lawyers advice if that person is your lawyer. Which takes us to one of the contradictions. Here was the president looking at this on two different ways on the suitability of convenience. Why did you hire Michael Cohen, he was known as a fixer. First of all, he did very low level work. He did more Public Relations than law. I never directed him to do anything wrong. Whatever he did, he did on his own. Hes a lawyer. A lawyer who represents a client is supposed to do the right thing, thats why you pay them a lot of money, et cetera, et cetera. Those two things cannot go together. Either he was a low level pr guy. Who wasnt really your lawyer. Yes, they do. Or he was your lawyer who was telling you what to do. The president just said both. Christopher, no. You literally played the clip of the president , in his own words that he stated today. And then you paraphrased them. Youre not being honest. The people just heard it. Please tweet me and let me know if i got it wrong. Then you felt the need to paraphrase and not at all. Im characterizing something thats obvious. What this all means. Nope. So the president. The most important thing the president just said that goes to the essential case here, is that he never directed Michael Cohen to break the law. Wy is that not important or credible to you . Its important and credible to the rest of the country, except for the people so blinded by their hatred toward him or their Wishful Thinking that he wont be president if they just close their eyes and click their heels three times, he wont be president and someone else will be, or she will be. Get over it. No. The day before he legislation knee, you were On Bended Knee, in front of a chart the map of the whole country it literally said, uno mas. She needs one more state. Ive never been On Bended Knee except when i proposes. Ill pull it up, ill find it. I dont care about the election. Im looking at a blank camera and youre reading a
teleprompter. Im not reading a teleprompter, im looking at your face. No, you cant talk about this, and then say i dont care about the election, why are we talking about the election . What may have affected the election, and the president telling the truth. But you dont want to talk about the election. The president is telling the truth. He isnt. Heres how we know. Excuse me. The president said he knew nothing about the story. If youre going to talk about facts if youre going to filibuster, be fair. Its not filibuster, im giving you an opportunity. You have to let me lay out the facts. Youre supposed to ask the questions. He said on the plane, i know nothing about the Stormy Daniels no, no, no the truth is, he knew everything about it. Christopher, that was april. 1kw4r. We have him on tape saying it. David pecker says he was there. It is incontrovertible, that is why prosecutors believe it. Whoa it is not. Youre way offline, youre showing partisan stripes,
respectfully. You cannot say its incontrovertible when it is that he knew . Incontrovertib incontrovertible. Hold on. Thats not true. When the president said let me speak, please. Dont invite me on. Im the only person in the white house that will come on. That is their mistake. They should not be cowards. The president said in april they are not cowards. Theyre wonderful people. The president doesnt like to be interrupted at 9 00 at night. The president said in april on air force one. Did you know about the payments . He said no. I asked the president , what did you mean by that . By April Of 2018 the whole world, based on the Stormy Daniels revelation. Good point, why did he lie. He wasnt talking about what he knew in april. He did not lie. Hes talking about when the payment was made. I asked him that, and i said it on a couple sunday shows that very next weekend in april or may. I asked him, what did you mean. He told me. Why didnt he ever clarify
it. Hold on, he sends me, we do. We did qualify, its important. Christopher, in April Of 2018, donald j. Trump the president and Everybody Else were told about the payments. He knew about it from its inception. He came up with the plan. No, no, no, hold on. Youre saying incontrovertible based on the testimony of people who are trying to get a better deal and a lighter sentence for themselv themselves. Be fair here. I have a tape of him discussing what to do with Michael Cohen. No, you have a tape yes . Christopher, ive been involved in conversations like that on the 26th floor, not like that, but i was going to say, god for bid. No, no, no, hold on, but tell me this. Cnn, you included, nobody out there said, you know, i think that donald trump is going to win this election unless he was paying off some of these women. Its not a relevant question. You. Said he couldnt win. Its not a relevant question. Its very relevant. Whats relevant is whether he told the truth about it. The payments were made in furtherance of the election. No you cant just play lawyer on fv. Theres a statute. And the statute says in further answer of an election. Right. Now, its got to be a campaign expense. These are personal expenses in furtherance of the election. They could have a personal election and campaign motivation. You want it both ways. No. Thats what the judge said in the john edwards case. Thats a totally different matter. Lets review, john edwards was a president ial campaign sleeping with his videographer paid 1 million. She was also the mother of his child, and there were support payments being made. He was indicted, charged and indicted and went to trial. And he was acquitted on one charge and hung on two others. I dont know if its the best
analogy for you. But, wait a second, at least he had the opportunity to do what youre not giving President Trump i give if to him every night, if he wants to come on here and make the case, ill give him a whole hour no, no, no, no, no. Which is under oath. This is tv, you cant convict someone, indictment someone i dont want to convict anyone. I want the president to keep himself out of harms way. Youre out of bounds. No, hes not. No, no, no, no. You just like to say the president lies. It goes viral. Honestly, i dont like it. I really wish i didnt ever have to say it. He said today that he never directed Michael Cohen to break the law. Thats what the president said. Michael cohen and david pecker both deny that. They get frustrated with me because they think were too balanced on this. They dont want me to have you on. Theyre mad at you for having me often. They dont want you to have me on, and my aunt rita said today,
i dont know why you go on with him, hes not nice to you. Come on. Christopher, listen, your viewers dont want me to come on, you know im fair. Come on, can you please let me speak, please. Go ahead. They dont want you to have me on for a simple reason, they accept if not expect you and the rest of cnn to be antitrump all day long. You know it. You dont have the same viewership that cnn once had, people want it right down the middle. You spin a lot, and you ignore what is obvious fact. Are you going to call me a liar . If i have to i will. Youre calling oh, really, i dare you to do it. What is it i lied about. Im not saying youre lying. I dont have a teleprompter with people telling me what to say. I dont have a teleprompter, nobodys telling me what to say. Youre very clever. Heres your twitter need, it says On Bended Knee. Uno mas. Ive never been On Bended Knee. This is a picture its a joke, the picture is a joke. Youre On Bended Knee. Fortunately, theres no American Flag there. The picture is a joke. Youre suggesting i was so desperate for an outcome, now i want to punish the president for winning. Thats untrue. No, what im suggesting is im calling out obvious heres whats silly. Controversies. No, its not obvious. David pecker says he was at the meeting. Its not obvious. Michael cohen says he knew all about it. The tape says he knew all about it, why deny it . Michael, youre imbuing credibility to people who are playing to your Wishful Thinking. You shouldnt do that. The president of the United States said he never directed Michael Cohen to break the law. I want to tell you something, if a person in an individual particularly a wildly popular,
very well known wealthy entrepreneur would do something whether he was running for federal office or not, and he does it anyway, as one of his lawyers have stated, sometimes youre trying to get rid of a nuisance. Sometimes youre trying to save your family from embarrassment. And this this is what happened you can have multiple reasons for doing one of these transactions, you dont have to direct the action to be part of the action. Thats just the law. And it youre not giving credence to those. I want to know, why, why these folks should be paid its just about the truth, thats all. You are, though. You dont want to hear from the defense many. Thats not true, im having you on for exactly this seasrea. Its an incontrovertible fact that the president knew about what was being done with these payments. You know it, i know it. He knows it. You. Dont know it. No, we dont know that. I dont know that, ill tell you why. Thats why youre saying now its not a crime. Just like your phony bologna
illusion, Delusion Russia Collusion which you dont talk about any more. I dont know what you just said. The cellar now . Listen, i say what the facts suggest. You wanted it to oh, what the facts suggest. Thats what we do in journalism. Heres a good opportunity, a very natural Inflexion Point for me to remind the donors to the gofundme page for Stormy Daniels that they have given their money to possibly donald trump, since she raised a little bit more than half a million, the last i noticed and nearly 300,000 of that theyve been ordered to pay to don. Congratulations the people who paid money to stormy daniel, you actually paid it to donald
trump. I cant see your face, im looking into a blank camera. Why must you feel the need to insult me personally to make a case. Im not insulting you, youre insulting me, and youre insulting the president of the United States. I am not. Im not taking a shot at them, im thanking them. Theyre now paying for the president s attorneys fees. Im thanking them. I want to thank them, that their money is going to a great cause. Its going to pay lets get back on point why the lying matters. Dont call them facts. Look, you dont have to like it. Incontrovertible facts. Thats what they are. Youre reading, youre reading a document, and by the way, federal election you made your point. Campaign finance experts today no, Campaign Finance experts today said there was this was an aggressive prosecution, a very aggressive liberal reading of the Campaign Finance laws in the southern district. You have to know that
Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to it, david pecker admitted that they did it. He pleaded guilty to a lot of things. Why plead guilty if he didnt do it. Why would david pecker say he did it if he didnt do it. Trump is trying to help him out for years to his own risk. Christopher, in august of 2015, what are you saying happened that didnt happen in August Of 2016 that i wasnt made just like Russia Collusion, i never talked all im saying is, he knew what was happening with the women. He was aware of it. He helped hatch the plan so wheres your nexus . Wheres your nexus . No. Thank you for saying that. Cnn is on no solid ground to show a nexus. No, no, this is important. Under your argument you want to look at the nexus with Michael Cohen and russia, ill give it to you. Any entrepreneur. Forget about it, i dont want to have a legal debate about whether or not its a crime. Im telling you, im not worried about the prosecution, 25ez not
my focus, my focus is the truth. I didnt say that, you said that. Your focus is not the truth. And says that he was negotiating your focus is not the truth. When the president said he had no Financial Relationships with russia. We now know that wasnt true. Your focus hey, christopher, do you think that the russians influenced the outcome of the election . I dont know. But heres what i do know cnn Michael Cohen was trying to get a deal done for the president of the United States incontrovertible facts. I dont give an opinion no relationship. I dont give an opinion about what i dont know. Thats your job. You are trying to not the truth as you want it to be. The president said he had nothing working. And then Michael Cohen says, i lied to congress about it because i wheres the Russia Collusion . And i thats what he said. Thats not what the president asked him to do. Thats what he wanted to do. About what my testimony would
be. Do you know who Michael Cohen talked to that was close to the president about what the testimony would be . Have you ever heard of that before . Not me. Do you think it was Somebody Else . Do you know if anyone heard what Michael Cohen was going to testify to before congress . Me . No, why would i know that . Because youre very close to the president. You were there during the campaign and youre part of the administration. Right, and isnt that important here. Wouldnt all your viewers love to watch me be frog marched because i includeded with russia and paid off women. No, no, no, no such things. Cnns not on solid ground here for a simple reason. The president didnt Tell The Truth about what he was trying to do with russia. You failed to do that. Thats not the bar. You. Promised people up until 2016. Thats not the bar. That there was no way donald trump could win. Telling people 92 chance you did not think this mattered. Find me telling people there will be collusion, prepare yourself for disappointment if you think the Mueller Probe is going to end the presidency, i dont see it. Under your reading so heres what i want to ask you, the president s been in office 600, 700 days. Whats your question . 700 days . Look, theres my question, in all those days, really, since hes before he was even elected, since he got elected, and definitely since hes been president of the United States. Do you know how just consistently and unapologetically and ruthlessly and unnecessarily negative you and your network have been toward the democratically elected president of the United States opinion. Do you know how you cover very little on the economy, to peace thats not true. Why are we talking about it. I went down to the border and did an exclusive tour with cbp about their struggles to keep us safe down there. Its not true. But its also immaterial. Yeah, they are struggling and they could use some help. Why did the president no, its not immaterial. They could use some help on border security. No, no, they could use help on border security. Stop talking about just a wall. Youre not helping them with their real challenges. No, they need border security. We are responding to what they have told us they need. And hes denying you and one of your other anchors called it caravanished, did it vanish or did it make it up. And now theyre sitting there. In tijuana mexico. A system that cant handle them, you wont give them more judges. No, no, you do. Because congress failed to act. And this president has been there. Youll shut down the government over a wall, but you wont negotiate any of the points that matter more than that. Christopher, this is about border security, youre going to let me speak now because im the guest. This is about border security,
the president has made clear he his first and solemn duty in this country is to keep us all safe. That includes border security. Hes asking for a little bit more money, and if you look at all the nonsense. Hes not asking for a little bit more money, hes asking for a lot of money. Hes asking for 1 50th of what the counsel on economics estimates it would cost our country for heroin disorder. The heroins not being walked across the border either. Out of here. It comes through ports of entry almost exclusively. And through tunnels. And you know it. Not almost exclusively. Thats ridiculous. You know that, this is your bailiwick. I know it, but you know it too. Hold on, you want to talk about border security. No, i really want to know why the president lied about negotiating a deal with russia. Thats what i want to know, but
you dont want to answer it. He didnt lie. I want to talk to the American People about border security. He said to cameras, ill play you the sound. Youre just being ridiculous. You really are, im not going to listen to your sound. Because i want to tell people about border security. And i want everybody to know about the 26 democrats that voted for border security. It should be a lot more. Those included no, no, no, those included, you know who they were price tag for a wall thats not going to be built. Senator Chuck Schumer voted for secure fences, senator Hillary Clinton, senator joe biden and senator barack obama. So theyre not voting for secure fences here. Keeping us safe and you know it. Thats not true. It would help. You know it would help, but its not why does the president make it a single issue. Im going to shut down the government for a wall. He doesnt make it a single issue. Mel, play the sound of what he said about the shutdown. I will take the mantle of shutting it down, i will shut it down for border security. Thats what he said. Border security. Well, christopher, youre lying. Dont shut down the government, he tweets. Border security. Which is it, are you a tough guy that wants to shut down the government over a wall. Border security is national security. Border security is national security. Youre lying. You are lying incontrovertibly when you say a wall. Instead of border security. I want to get back to this so the president today no, no, the president today had the governors in, democratic and republican governors who were just elected. Great. He had them in to the cabinet room. Youre like great, oh, no. Keep going, use the time. I want to talk about the government working. Its a little bit of a distraction from what im asking many. How we can all work together. He should work with governors. For an unusually odd reason. Youre not looking at the cnn
polling, the polling doesnt say that Michael Cohen and david pecker are yesterdays news, and even russia and all that, thats not top of the list in the cnn polling. Why do you ignore your own polls. The midterms were a call for guardrails on this white house. For what . People want this president checked. Is that what it was, really . I heard theyre running on medicare for all. Thats why im asking you these questions. I heard socialists. Not because of criminal exposure. He lied about the deal, the payments. No, you just want to say that. We havent to find out if hes telling the truth about what he knew of different aspects of russian interference. How do you know im not going to allow you to say the president i dont want to allow you to cast the truth on what you want it to be, and based on a couple people in an indictment many im going to or in a statement. Im going to allow you to wait until you read the reports, until you read the answers that the president has given under the written answers hes
provided. But you are playing Wishful Thinking here, you did it, you all did it on the kavanaugh thing, you heard in one side and you had journalists acting like activists on your network as did other people. They werent being journalists, they were being activists. Theres nothing Brett Kavanaugh can say. And then he got to speak. Why are you talking about that now . You like to spray it around, this Conspiracy Theory of everything Brett Kavanaugh the justice has nothing to do with this discussion. Hes a justice on the supreme court. He has everything to do with it, what you want to do is be an activist and not a journalist. Is he the reason that the president lied about collusion with russia. Its a great example of how you lie, you and your colleagues. You said i shouldnt call you a liar, you call me a liar many times. You see the difference in our tactics . I treat you with respect. You are engaging in wishful
thinking. My Wishful Thinking is that i didnt have to cover friday of this, that i didnt have to worry about a president being fact checked every time he opens his 340u7b8g on a material issue. Lets take a random day in the white house and talk about it. Let me talk about everything that went on today. No, i dont want to hear about what went on. Youre not interested in that. The president s viewing im worried about the president saying today, gm is getting rid of these jobs, but those jobs will be absorbed in two minutes. Its not about texas, its not about my daily calendar, its about all the things that happened today. I have a daily calendar. What does that mean . It means i dont care about everything that happened at the white house today. Why things that happen that affect people. No, this is a focus show, im focusing on the contradictions in the president s case. I care about the contradictions in the president s case. You dont want him to succeed. Kellyanne, say that again. You want my audience to believe that i dont want the country to succeed . No, not your audience. Your audience is your audience. Imagine if i said Something Like that to you. Or else you would be telling your audience. Imagine if i said Something Like that to you. Youre sitting here imagine. Youre sitting here telling oh, stop. When you say, its okay. You ask a white house guest to come on and you dont. You can be as insulting as you want, and its okay. Im not being cheap or base. You call me a liar. I dont want the country to succeed. No some would argue that is treason by the way. No, i dont you guys throw words around down there. Im going to talk to someone who has 40 followers on twitter. I give people respect regardless of the number of followers. Im here to engage. Im not here to duck. Im not here to smear people. And im not here to insult my way out of a question. Thats not me. You insulted the president of the United States tonight. And i have to tell you, im one of many, many millions and millions of americans who are fed up with it. When . 6 in 10 americans say that this is a serious matter, that has to be investigated. You just got trounced in the midterm elections in the popular vote, because people want this white house checked. And guess what, youre not investiga investigated. Youre not the investigator. Yes, we are. We work off the facts. Thats why i broke that tame. I knew it was going to matter that the president was lying about this. Why dont you tell everybody hey, christopher, the president said just today, i never directed Michael Cohen he doesnt have to have directed the action to expose liability. Im asking you why thats not a fact to you. The president saying it . Why isnt if it can be corroborated it is a fact. A fact needs to be corroborated. Oh, but hold on. Unfortunately, he lies a lot. Thats why, just like michael
cohen. Hes doing a great job. His credibility is suspect. Hes doing a great job for this country. It may not matter to you that people have more money in their pockets take a look at my taxes in new york oh, poor you. No, not poor me, but youre not being accurate. Thats all. Heres whats accurate. I talk to people every day. Heres whats accurate. Hes all about people who are making a lot of money. I talk to people every day, who are not you, in manufacturing, construction, mining. Are they being told theyll get jobs back in ohio in two minutes. Is that the truth . Those gm jobs are going to get picked up like that. Grants that languished for ten years, hes done so much good for this country. And i hope youll hold i havent said he hasnt done good things for the country. We want to work with him on
infrastructure, prison reform. Good. Let me ask you one more thing. You Dont Focus On that. Let me ask you one more thing. You Dont Focus On that. You exclude information from people. When you wanted to talk about opiods, i brought you on, we talked about only that. You cant possibly for a half a segment. And thank you for that. This is longer than weve had you on any other show. Thats not true. That is not true. Really . By the way what show. We didnt talk about opiods for 20 minutes. Yes, we did. It Doesnt Matter who gives me time on opiods. Because of this president we have the single most comprehensive law on the drug crisis. Thats a good thing. It passed with every democratic vote in the house and senate. Its a good thing. The bill that donald trump signed into laugh. Its not relevant to you. I just said its a good thing. I had you on my show to discuss
it. Stop being so abusive of reality. Youre not telling people whats going on. The fact betray your own reality. Thats one thing we work on. Youre being dismissive of people that are grateful they have jobs now. Im not you are, youre being dismissive. Im here for them. I want to ask you something. This butina the alleged spy, theres this real weird thing that happens at one of the candidate not yet president s rallies, press conferences, where he called on her i think second, not first. It was reported she was first, i think it was second. He called on her, and she asked a question about sanctions. Do you know about why he would have called on this person to ask a question about sanctions . I know zero, and i know zero about her. I dont believe ive ever met her, if i have, i certainly dont remember. Im not sure hes so familiar with her either, because we were
watching the news today, and why did he call on her . I have no idea why. When was that, allegedly. The beginning of the campaign. If you okay, but again there you are. Hold on, theyre telling me, july 11th, 2015. It was a long time ago. Oh, for god sake, and then youre back to august 2015. Christopher, focus on the winning part of the campaign, where none of you thought he could win, let alone she pleaded guilty to being a russian spy and asked a question of the president about sanctions. Meanwhile, she was working the nra, i dont know why she asked about sanctions. You want to talk that i know nothing about. But let me ask you something. I accept your answer. This president has sanctioned many different russians and expelled some from this country. Wasnt happy about it. When he was felt he wasnt. Congress told him to do it, he didnt want to do it. I love when the reporter said, heres his mood, heres what hes thinking today. I dont say that. I be do the have reporting on his mood, its irrelevant to me. Its always sources familiar, former official. My job is to test the white house. No, your job is to but you, come on, you can test me, but you have to be honest about the way you do it. I really think i am, i think im pretty transparent. Youre assigning yes, i cant deny that, you are very transparent. But you look at that you mean that as a pejorative. But i mean it in terms i know you mean it as an insult. No. I dont take shots at you or the president. Trans parent. Im just talking about what is. You called the president tonight a slur that i am not going to repeat slur . I never. You say hes not telling the truth. He lies a lot. Today he said, true or false today he said he never directed Michael Cohen to commit a crime. I am not going to take the
president at his word when he has a record of lying about these things. He didnt know about the Stormy Daniels payment. He said the guy was a pr agent, then he says hes his lawyer. Then nothing happened, then we have the tape with his voice on it. The facts are overwhelming. They really are. The facts are not overwhelming. Thats why i ask. Oh, thank you, in a took you 25 minutes. It doesnt expose him to anything now. It is not the law of the land, but it is the guidance of the doj, and until it changes, i dont know how they could indict him. Im asking you, im asking you, what relevance all of this has to the telling the truth to the American People. Lying about doing deals with russia . No, youre not telling the truth. Youre not telling the truth. To get ride of sanctions, at the same time youre at a convention taking it easy on russia . Oh, come on. Youre making excuses. This is coincidental for things that need answers. For a president you never
wanted elected. And a president you wont cover fairly. You should just own it. Thats a distraction. Ill tell you what i own. I appreciate you coming on. It has a lot to do with politics and feelings, and you interrupted your guest. You dont do that with all of your guests. I interrupt everybody all the time, because i cant let it be a spin you had the wonderful head of the cpb and you did not interrupt he was not spinning me. America was informed. He was not spinning me. He was speaking truth. When you talk about the cpb, you should ask all those ill informed people who come on, we need to abolish ice, we dont need border security. Nobody says they want open borders, not elected officials who are relevant. They voted against it. President obama said theyre for open borders or not for border security, they will get tested and tested heavily, because thats absurd. I havent come across it once. Theyre for keeping the borders open or for keeping the government open. I dont think thats around argument for them to
make. Yes, it is. Congress has failed to act for years on immigration. They failed to and everybodys business. And they offered the president a deal that he walked away from when the republicans told him that he needed to ask for more. So its a little more complex than that. Im going to tell you respectfully, you are irresponsible night after night saying what you say about the president , with absolutely no facts and no proof. And i disagree. Its Wishful Thinking, youre playing to the audience or other ppz have you to be fair. You cant just say kellyanne, i think i am. No, based on your own predisposition. Youre not being fair and youre not gaining an audience of people who dont want to hear that. The team that works on this show. And gives me information every night antius. Works their ass off to make sure they get things right on a regular basis. No question. But you are selecting and curating. Were not selecting and curating. Youre selecting and curating. We have people on every night, we test both sites, were fair, you may not like the
testing, thats different than it being unfair. I appreciate you coming on the show. No, thats not true, its not unfair. Go look at your own cnn polling. Ill look at it, 6 out of 10 say this is a serious matter that must be investigated. Yeah, thats one poll number. They also say the economy is most important to them and health care. Of course they are. Thats why they voted democrat so heavily, because of what happened to health care. Some of them didnt, what happened in the senate. No, no, no, i get the last word because im your guest. Go ahead, take it. The four senators who voted against Brett Kavanaugh all lost in indiana, north dakota, minnesota and florida. Bill nelson lost this time. Pretty close race. And the democratic senator pretty close race . He won by a million votes the time before. Im saying nelson versus scott was a pretty close race. They dont want people stale
in their thinking. Kellyanne conway brings the heat, no question about it. Lets bring in some legal minds to assess what was helpful and not to the president s case, next. Hi, i need a thriller for my wife. Political or psychological . Psychological. Small town or big city . Small town. Methodists. Or mules . Mules. Hows this . Signed . no way. Nobody knows Thrill Seekers like we do. Barnes noble. And i found out that ima from the big toe lian. Of that sexy italian boot so this Holiday Season its ancestrydna per tutti order your kit now at ancestry. Com music throughout anna and a little nervous. Into retirement. But not so much about what Market Volatility may do to their retirement savings. Thats because they have a Shield Annuity from Brighthouse Financial, which allows them to take advantage of Growth Opportunities in up markets, while maintaining a level of protection in down markets. So they can focus on new things like exotic snacks. Talk with your advisor about Shield Annuities from Brighthouse Financial established by metlife. We have two great legal minds for you. Neil cadyal and robert ray. Its great to have you on. Lets just clear something up here. Put the noise to the side. Two quick points and you guys tell me if i have it on. What we learned from the john edwards decision is, if one of the reasons youre making a
payment is to help your campaign, thats enough. Secondly, the president didnt need to direct the action to be exposed to that same action, im not saying hes going to be exposed to criminal liability. Again, as i said to kellyanne, i dont know how that happens as a practicality. Do i have those two basic assessments right. You do. And sitting here and watching that i have respect for Kellyanne Conway. What about me . Did you see the beating i took there. She is the president s best defender. All you heard about edwards was gobblygook. The bait and mirror was not working. Did the president lie about these payments . Theres no question that he did many in April Of 2018. He was asked, did you know about the 130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels . No, no. So now theyve switched to this edwards kind of reasoning. Right. Kellyanne conway was talking about how Campaign Experts agree with her. Thats preposterous. Even if so, neil. Let me bounce this over to mr. Ray, ive leaned on you plenty, during this process, for your accumin, counselor ray, and its good to ask you here once again. Im not making this about whether or not the president is guilty of a crime. Im just talking about the lying. The idea that we dont know that the president wasnt telling the truth about what he knew and what his role was with his payments is absurd. Im not saying that makes him guilty of a crime, im not saying anything of it is a crime. Im just saying the idea that he was telling the truth about what he knew and when, is obviously untrue much is that a fair statement . What does that have to do with whether or not theres an Impeachable Offense first, and second, whether or not he was as many, many people have tried to
suggest, including on cnn and elsewhere, that hes essentially a coconspirator in connection with the Campaign Finance violation. I think theres a Long Distance between what Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to, and whether or not the president of the United States was involved and knew that what was being done was an illegal Corporate Campaign contribution in kind of payments to Stormy Daniels and others, in order to keep them silent. In order to influence an election. And, you know, look, i think we just you know, kind of need to keep track of the forest from the tries. That is an important issue, and i do think that you know, its important to note that the president has already suggested in all of that, look, i hired a lawyer. I am not a lawyer myself, my
lawyer obviously, i assumed was acting appropriately, provided me with legal advice. And until its suggested otherwise, that there was somehow, something improper here. I think the president has a substantial defense to any suggestion a criminal defense. Well, sure, look. I mean are but chris, its not just a criminal defense, its in connection with any notion that there might be an Impeachable Offense here, which i think is ridiculous. Lets bring neal in on this. Time will tell. Impeachable is very different. Impeachable is what the people feel it is. Its whatever congress thinks it is. And lying can get you in trouble, right . Nixon told us that famously for telling his own demise. Bill clinton same deal. This president but its got to be lying under oath or lying to a federal
agent. Theres no suggestion that the president i dont know thats why i always test his veracity, i dont know what he put in those answers. I dont know either. Maybe he said things he felt would be matched by these other men you cant speculate. No, no, no speculation. We know he lies a lot. We know he lied about this transaction. Thats not the same thing as saying somebody lies under oath. Thats the difference. Look, a lot of a lot of people got in trouble here because you know, chris, as you well know, in politics, loyalty is a virtue beyond all others, where people get into trouble, particularly underlings, and ive seen this in the nixon administration, in the clinton administration, and now the trump administration, is when loyalty is one thing, but when you then make statements under oath or to federal agents. Spouting the party line, and it turns out not to be true. And it can be proved that what you said was false, thats a problem. Yeah. Okay. And theres a lot of that around. Can i Say Something here . Hes not the first president or the First Administration whos been through this. Thats true, weve just never seen this much of it or a president who abuses the truth the way he does. I dont know about that. I think ray is on the same thing of mirrors and missing the issues. The issue is not lying under oath. Its lying to the American People. You just heard Kellyanne Conway say, people, Election Experts agree this wasnt a felony. And stuff like that. Absolutely preposterous. No, i dont i dont agree with that. Let me finish. Tomorrow i have an editorial coming out with a Republican Former chair of the fec. Saying this is a very serious violation, the edwards precedent doesnt apply, and the like. The president has denied this today, he says hes acting at the advice of council. This is the same guy who lied to
us in april. I have no idea why we should bring him now. The Criminal Process will unfold. I think the Impeachment Process will unfold. Time will tell what happened. If i were a lawyer what they can corroborate. By saying, well, you know, hes lied before. All right. Fair enough. But he had his statements in this regard corroborated by the prosecutors as with the Mueller Probe and what he told them about russia. They said, with respect to this, from the second meeting on, hes told the truth. And the president needs to show the same kind of corroboration to be believed. He cant be just believed as a oneoff. He lies too much. Unfortunately thats a reality. Whoa, whoa. Go ahead. What happened to the presumption of innocence . Im not saying hes guilty of something. Im saying hes lying. Didnt he okay. Thats fine. Thats nice that you say and god knows that its not a god knows thing. That doesnt i have a tape with his voice on it going through the transaction. No, no, no. David pecker says he was at
the meeting. No. Cohen said he knew all about it. Hold on a sec. First of all, with regard to a Campaign Finance violation, youre talking about something that even if what you say is true, if the president had done this directly, there was nothing illegal about it. Theres knoll illegal why lie about it . Why hide it from the American People . You know, during an election, five, ten days before an election, this may been the most significant Campaign Contribution it doesnt change the fact that youre trying to criminalize something that im not trying to criminalize it. Thats the federal statute. If the president had done it directly, it wouldnt have been illegal. Of course. Thats what the only thing by the way, the president s right about this. If he had done it, the only thing that would have illegal about it is arguably a civil violation and that it Doesnt Excuse and failure to report failure to report an expenditure. This is mirrors. Its not mirrors. Its the federal election
i accept the legal debate and see how that plays out. Its never been my concern. The lying is my concern. Even if its not a crime, i dont get why he lied about it. I dont think that thats a slur. Chris i dont think thats an opinion this is the first time youve ever seen a politician lie . Irrelevant. Sure, its irrelevant. The point youre trying to make is trying to equate the fact that lying is the equivalent of making a false statement under oath or perjury which its not. Is there any evidence the president perjured himself or made a false statement under oath . No. Not that i know of. There we are. Im with you. Im tracking the line because i think it matters. I hear you im now saying it Doesnt Matter. Im saying were talking about stuff because the issue has been raised about whether or not these are high crimes and misdeme misdemeanors. I understand. Impeachment. If you see a Patpattern Of Lg on things that matter to the
American People, it could political exposure. Nea l, robert, i appreciate you having on the show. Be well. President s loyalists are throwing out a whole new set of legal arguments to try to defend him and they may be good and they may not, but it doesnt escape the accountability for telling the truth to you. Okay . Were going to get more into this on the political side right after this. Life isnt a straight line. Things happen. And sometimes you can find yourself heading in a new direction. But at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected with Retirement Planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. Because when youre with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. Five golden. Six golden rings. Seven golden rings
theres no place likargh e im trying. Yippiekiyay. Mom. Plenty to debate. Lets bring in van jones and amy kremer. Thank you for your patience. Both of you. Amy, let me ask you something. Maybe im not making this clear. Im not making a case against the president of the United States. Robert ray, you know, neal katyal, theyre so much smarter than ill ever be. For me its not about the
criminality. Its about telling the truth to the American People. And i dont know why that just because this may not be a crime, lets say, these payments to these women, lets assume its not a crime, why is lying about it okay . Look, chris, i mean, the president said he did not have anything to do with it. How do you know that hes lying . I have his voice on tape. You dont know that i have his voice on tape saying that he knows about it and directing the action. Was it his voice on tape . Yep. Okay. Well, look, you know, i dont know what goes on with the president and his legal team. There are many meetings that go on . A campaign in this administration that we dont have all the information for, but the problem here is that the onesidedness of what cnn is trying to do, go after this president , and all the mainstream media, not just cnn, you are not talking about Hillary Clinton and the Campaign Finance it has nothing to do with this. Wait, no, no, i want to make this clear. Have you ever asked Hillary Clinton if she directed money to
pay for the fake russia dossier . Have you ever ask ee eed her th question . Dont need to, we know for a fact she did. Exactly. Its a fact, just like its a packet the preside fact the women were being paid. It was a personal transaction whether personal or not, he lied about it. That shouldnt be okay for people who are cultural conservatives. Because that used to be up of your paramount virtues when you went at bill clinton. The guys a liar. Youre acting like now youre saying lying Doesnt Matter. Let me bring in van. Wait a second, no, im not. Do not say im saying that, chris, because i am not. I think its important to Tell The Truth. Hes not. The truth will set you free. This is the thing. I didnt elect donald trump to be my pastor or my preach ever moral your president doesnt have to Tell The Truth . I elected him because hes a great businessman and wanted him to get the country back on track. Hes a great businessman . He has a record to prove it. He does not have a record chris, do you ever talk promises made, promises kept and all the things hes done . Your viewers dont ever hear about it. Thats not true. It is true. Van, come on in on this. I think what were seeing is a great political party, look, im a democrat. Left side of pluto. Proud of it. But theres a Republican Party that i remember that used to get on my doggone nerves preaching and immoralizing to everybody, telling us we had a president bill clinton who was hurting children and hurting the country and those very same people are the same ones who are out here now spinning and spinning and spinning and this is why order theyre regular people just look at all this political stuff and they throw their hands up. It is bad for the country. Its not just bad for the country, for the president to do this, but the Republican Party should be consistent and should say much more forthrightly it does matter what the president does. It matters what the principal of Yfr High School does. It matters what the mayor of
your town does. The presidency matters. His moral character matters. Hes failing us right now. It takes nothing away from your matter to say that. It makes your matter struggle when you say that. I wish youd say it more. It doesnt make him a criminal, by the way, doesnt make his exposed to the fec crime, not necessarily, but the truth matters. Thats all im saying, amy. I want to make something clear, that, look, it is an insult to our intelligence, to the American Peoples intelligence, to think that we didnt know that this kind of stuff went on. I mean, remember, the democrats, the road to get donald trump first hit was trizen with michal flynn. Then it was collusion. Now were down to Campaign Finance . It wreaks of desperation. What the mean people wanted from this is prosecutors. Im sorry, amy, its not democrats doing this. This is procesecutors, lying democrats are talking about it and republicans are scared of it. Im not afraid of it, van. You wont own it, either. Van, the thing of it is, why dont we get a special