Transcripts For CNNW Cuomo Prime Time 20181204

Going to show it to you and show you why it suggests that the president has good reason to be worried. Happ happy hanukkah to all jewish brothers and sisters. Lets get after it. Now, before we start tonight, let me say god bless the soul of president George Herbert walker bush. My condolences to his family, my gratitude for their and the president s service. His passing would always be too soon for his loved ones. But for the country, it comes at a perfect time to remember a very different type of leader and leadership. We have more on that later in the show. First, it is another big week for the russia investigation. The special counsel is due to make three Crucial Court filings, sentencing memos from Michael Flynn, Michael Cohen and with paul manafort. With manafort, well likely learn what hes been lying about with flynn and mueller. With cohen, we will get a sense of how they have been helpful. We already know the president is worried, right . Hes been sending out tweets that have his lawyers in lather, i would imagine, a president calling people who cooperate with a government probe rats and calling those who refuse strong, attacking the special counsel personally and weighing in on the sentence of a man who gave damaging testimony about him. Now, one of my first guests calls this obstruction of justice and witness tampering in plain sight. Lets discuss the possibilities. Cuomo court now in session. Norm eisen and jim schultz. Counselor eisen, make your case. Whats wrong with the president giving his opinion about Michael Cohens sentence . Chris, thanks for having me back in cuomos court. Whats wrong with it is weve seen a long pattern now, almost twoyear pattern of the president engaging in obstruction of justice, and this is the latest act obstruction means interfering with a federal investigation with bad intent. Witness tampering is intimidating a witness. And thats what he did today. Alone, maybe not so bad, but even these two tweets together, one hammering cohen, who dares to testify against him, the other praising roger stone, encouraging him not to testify. Its part of a very disturbing pattern. And as part of that pattern, i think substantial evidence of obstruction. Counter argument, jim schultz. How are you tonight . So, heres what we have. I mean, its always the instinct of someone who believes theyre wrongfully accused to lie to a person whos going to say that theyre innocent. And i think thats whats going on here, except its not the right way to do it. So, is it obstruction of justice . No, its not obstruction of justice. Why not . There has to be some intent to obstruct justice. Here he talked about roger stone telling the truth, and he louded roger stone for quote unquote telling the truth, and he also louded him for not being intimidated by the prosecutors. That isnt tantamount to obstruction of justice. Its not tantamount to witness tampering. That being said, any lawyer worth their salt is going to advise their client not to engage in directly or indirectly reaching out and discussing the matter with witnesses, and that would include tweets, because i dont believe that in that case prosecutors are going to look at that very closely and make a determination as to whether its obstruction or not. In this case, i dont believe it is, but its also not the right thing to do. All right, so bad form, but functionally not obstruction. Norm, counter. Well, chris, jim, if it were just this incident, you might say put it to the side, but this has been going on since he demanded comeys loyalty asked comey to drop the case, fired comey when he wouldnt do it. Admitted you want to talk about intent, jim, hes admitted when he was asked why he fired comey, the russia thing like this, he said it in public and in open, he doesnt have the intelligence to control himself. Jim, why would those lawyers tell their client not to do it . Because of the danger theyd cross the line. Obstruction and witness intimidation are not complicated. Does the president intend to interfere with this investigation to benefit himself . You bet he does, and these tweets, just like when he said Paul Manaforts pardon, im not taking it off the table he is interfering with this investigation. Its a substantial evidence of obstruction. Chris, well leave the final judgment to bob mueller lets go through this. But i think its very troubling, substantial, significant evidence. Jim . So, lets look at this. Lets talk about paul manafort. He has every right to use his pardon power to pardon paul manafort, if he wants to. I said the other night, and i maintain, its not a good decision to be saber rattling right now on that. But all of these bad decisions he had the right to exercise his right how do these bad decisions amount up to something thats significant legally . Ill talk about that in a second, but were going to talk about comey. He had every right to fire comey. That was well within his province. Depends why. Not for any reason. The director of the fbi serves at the pleasure of the president and he can fire the fbi director and has a right to hire another one, subject to senate confirmation, and theres no problem with that and he had every right to do it and hell never be charged with obstruction you seemed to have skipped that with the a. G. Lets get back to this. Same thing with the attorney general, another political appointee. By definition, theyre political appointees. He has every right to fire the attorney general if he wants to, but the a. G. Doesnt need to go before the senate . No obstruction on comey, no obstruction on manafort, no obstruction as it relates to the sessions wait a minute and yes, the a. G. Does need to go through senate confirmation, but hes got 210 days to appoint someone. This is a temporary attorney general. The case law supports that hes allowed to be there. All right, let me ask you something else. Why are all these people around the president lying about something that doesnt matter . If russia is just a hoax, if theres nothing there, if theres no reason to even do this investigation, why do they keep lying about this . Five now youve had in some way compromised by this. We dont know what we dont know specifically what the issues are relative to the lying Michael Flynn lied about russia conversation. George papadopoulos lied about russia contact. Michael cohen lied about keeping the president s business clear of the russia affair. We dont know the depth of gates and manafort and what theyve done. Well know this week. But dont say it, like, some kind of blind instrument. You know a lot, jim. Ill offer an answer go ahead, jim. Ill offer an answer but let me get back here relative to conduct well, no, it hasnt been just one charge, but let norm get in and youll come back. I want to offer an answer. Go ahead. Because the president knew that these things were going to be coming out, chris he knew that he had negotiated a massive benefit to himself. He was negotiating with putin at the same time he was on his way to being nominated as president. Hes got these hes making statements on russia policy. The president knew thered be a mess and heres how it factors in legally. It goes to the issue that jim raised corrupt intent. Yes, the president has a bad motive. He does not want himself, the people around him, his administration, old friends like roger stone, maybe even his son, don jr. He doesnt want him exposed, chris. Thats why the lies. Thats why the interference with the investigation. None of this comes and a new level of desperation today. None of this information to date has come close to the president of the United States. Michael cohen did. Hes all over the president. None of them. No one has been charged with any crimes relative to their activities on the campaign. Michael cohen has. The work that they did on the cohen. No, Michael Cohen was charged in the campaign dshlsi cohen stood up in court and norm, i cant hear jim. Michael cohen was charged with something to do with borrowing money, something to do with talking to the bank about the money that he borrowed, something to do with lying about the payoff on the women and something to do with lying about a Campaign Contribution to do with paying off the women. Two of those four are directly related to the president. He now just pleaded guilty okay, now to lying to congress about the president s business to cover for the president. How can you say its not related, jim . Even a dummy like i didnt say it wasnt related. Theres been nothing in question with conduct associated with anyone on that campaign as it related to work that they did on that campaign. It hasnt happened. Norm, final word. Michael cohen set up in court and he said the president , the senior person in charge of the campaign, ordered him to violate federal Campaign Finance laws i just listened to thats a crime by the president and the campaign, jim. Anderson cooper. I just listened to anderson cooper, of all people, just say Michael Cohen, what he said today is all over the place. Badmouth anderson cooper, jim im not badmouthing anderson cooper, but thats what he said, and i think hes right the things he said to date have been all over the place. So, to say that what Michael Cohen says is gospel is just irresponse well have plenty more time to discuss this. Distinguish what Michael Cohen has only said versus what this special counsel has been able to corroborate. And the reason that he said, in the pleading that he put his name on, robert mueller, that they believe cohen to be credible about what he said about the timing of the russia deal because they had documentary evidence of the same. Its not just his word. We have to leave it there, though. Norm eisen, thank you very much. Thanks, chris. Best to you and your family. Jim schultz, always a pleasure. See you again soon. All right, last week was so flooded from one event to the other. There was so much news coming out of the Mueller Probe that, to be honest, it was easy to miss a larger pattern that was at play. But now weve had some time, we can digest it, and i will show you that there has been a method to mueller all along. Ill show it to you next. Announcer cuomo prime time brought to you by the favorite, a royal tale of loyalty, power and deception. You want relief fast. Only new thermacare ultra pain relieving cream has 4 active ingredients, to fight pain 4 different ways. Get relief fast with new thermacare ultra pain relieving cream. So, Michael Cohen makes number five, the fifth person with ties to trump and or his campaign to plead guilty in the russia probe. Think about that. Four of them for making false statements involving contacts with russia. And now the latest, paul manafort, he stands accused of lying to the fbi, even during his plea arrangement, and we will very soon likely know what that was about. The question is, why do so many people around this president feel the need to lie about russia . And why does he feel the need to be so sympathetic to Vladimir Putins cause . Are they connected . We may learn more on one or both this week. Now, to be sure, mueller seems to have a method at play, all right . Just look back to this past indictment in february against a russian troll farm, all right . And youll see the pattern. So, what mueller does is he announces that three Internet Research Agency Employees travel to the u. S. In 2014, all right . So, two of them get indicted, but the third doesnt. Why . Mueller makes clear he knows exactly who the third person is, that they filed the trip with expenses that was part of this group. So he knows all the things he knew about the other two. Why no charge . Because it indicates that mueller had a method, that he would go after people equally and then see who was most susceptible to cooperation, a cooperator inside the troll factory. Sure enough, what happens in july . Mueller brings charges against 12 russian Intelligence Officers for hacking the dnc and the clinton campaign, all right . The indictment states the conspirators attempted after hours to spearfish for the first time email accounts at a domain hosted by a thirdparty provider and used by clintons personal office. Thats just the proof of what they were doing. So mueller is not without a sense of irony, or apparently, a sense of timing, at least. If youll remember, this incident happened right around the same time that then candidate donald trump said this russia, if youre listening, i hope youre able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Lets see if that happens. Yeah, we saw what happened. Mueller smacked them down literally the next day. So, this is called in prosecution theory a pyramid thing. You start broad and you start to move your way up to those who matter more with more central activity to what youre investigating in the first place. The president , you heard him there, he was full of promise about what this would yield. Now not so much. Hes clearly worried. Look at his attacks today, against the special counsel and beyond. His lawyers must be wincing, and here is why. He first criticized someone for cooperating with a criminal probe. Think about that. A president criticizing someone for working with the government. That could be seen as another brick in the wall of obstruction. Now, then the president praises someone who refuses to cooperate with the criminal probe. You heard jim schultz, former white house counsel, arguing that thats just him lauding, praising somebody who helped him. Okay. Remember the president who once said it takes a strong man to duck telling the truth to a prosecutor . Me either, because no president has ever said anything like that until now. And then the president claims, without evidence, that mueller, a lifelong republican, respected by the party, is corrupt, and he only wants lies. First, messing with the man youre trying to negotiate with is never good. But second, if its lies that mueller is looking for, well, its certainly lies that he has exposed. If you take a look at this, all the fire and fury from the president is coming after the man at the center of his business and the man at the center of his campaign were both revealed as lying to the government. One definitely did so to cover for the president s double speak about doing business in russia, okay . Now, crying foul and witch hunt has gone beyond the doth protest too much threshold for this president , and it just makes the central question even more pressing why do so many people around this president feel the need to lie about russia . And this week we will get much closer to an answer to that question. The case is building. The question is where will it lead . Who knows . But with all these liars around the president , you can never be sure which way its going to go. And it does raise this question how does the president see himself winning at the end of the Mueller Probe . Great starting point for a great debate. Lets have it next. Go big this holiday at tmobile. When you buy one of the latest sumsung phones you get a free 50 samsung 4k tv. You gotta be kidding me. Seriously, no [announcer] seriously. Get to a tmobile store today. From capital one. Nd i switched to the spark cash card i earn unlimited 2 cash back on everything i buy. And last year, i earned 36,000 in cash back. Which i used to offer Health Insurance to my employees. Whats in your wallet . Theres no place likargh e im trying. Yippiekiyay. Mom. Trumps former longtime political adviser, roger stone, said yesterday he would never flip on the president. He put it like this. Theres no circumstance under which i would testify against the president because id have to bare false witness against him. Id have to make things up, and im not going to do that. Trump had high marks for stone, tweeting today, nice to know that some people still have guts. Raises a question is it okay for a president of the United States to praise someone for not testifying in a legal matter with the government . Lets ask our great debaters, Christine Quinn and rick santorum. So, Michael Cohen, christine, cooperating, makes him a rat. Yep. Refusing to cooperate makes you strong. Make the argument that that is not okay as an analogy by a president. Well, look, first of all, its simply not okay for any government official, nevertheless the president , to be urging people not to cooperate with a government investigation. And if youre not afraid of the results of those investigations as it is, you would have even less reason to do that. But clearly here the president is saying if you cross me youre a rat, and implying we all know what happens to rats. But if you stand with me, truth or not, youre going to get taken care of. And i think as others have said on this show already, that is clearly a case for obstruction of justice and witness tampering. As we saw earlier at different points with Michael Cohen, when the president was calling him out as, you know, supporting him and being so strong and not wanting to say anything. This president is clearly feeling backed against a wall. Weve heard all kind of sources from the white house saying hes frantic as the noose is really getting tighter around this russian investigation, and i think thats evidence clearly in this tweet that no lawyer anywhere would ever feel comfortable with their client, even if they werent the president of the United States, sendi sending. Lets say it has nothing to do with any suggestion that the president knows he did anything wrong. Put that aside. Wave it away. How do you feel about the president making these kinds of comparisons to who is good and who is bad . Well, look, i dont see any anything wrong with what he said about roger stone. Roger stone came out and said look, im not going to lie. Theres nothing i would tell the special counsel that could be incriminating to the president. If it was, id have to lie to do that, and im not going to lie. The president says, good, dont lie. Right, but thats not what theyre asking him to do, rick. And youre not arguing otherwise, but just to be clear, theyre asking roger stone to come in and talk to them about what it was, and hes come in a little bit. They want more. And he says, well, im not going to flip on the president. Well played, roger stone. Well played. But if you think about it, rick, part of his best defense here is that he is someone whos a little loose with the truth, right . Remember those days where the explanation of how roger stone knew all that stuff about wikileaks, it wasnt because he asked his friend, corsi to go ask somebody to ask into assange. Its because he made it up. And thats what he did. He was playing. He was puffing. Remember that . And now he says i would never say anything untrue. A little bit of mixed thoughts there. Well, i think what he said is hed never say anything untrue under oath. Look, im not going to stand here [ laughter ] and say roger stone has ever said anything thats untrue because that would be untrue. Well, im not in front of a grand jury, im in front of you. Good point, rick. Good point. So look, what stone is saying is im not going to say anything untrue to the grand jury. And what trump is saying, good for you. I dont see that as a problem. Rick, i dont have a problem with him lauding someone, but christine when it comes to Michael Cohen, he says that guy should get the book thrown at him. Yeah. So, you have a president of the United States weighing in on what the sentence should be from someone who gave damaging testimony about him. We have never heard that before from a president. And then the difference becomes if you look at it, its not so much whether they were telling the truth. Its the content of their truth, right . And in the case of Michael Cohen, he doesnt like the content of the truth because it is not helpful to him. In the case of roger stone, who says, which is curious phrasing, im not going to flip on the president , which implies you have something to flip on. Right. Yeah, roger look, roger is a tactician. Oh, 100 . He has done things and said things that are beyond disgusting. And he has been held out for those, and he should have been. But on this one, i get the game that hes playing, but hes not my concern. Right. I only have one president in this country, and thats the standard of behavior that we call out, not roger stones standard of behavior. No, no, clearly. And if you look at the president in this, hes made it clear over and over, even before when he was saying Different Things about Michael Cohen if you stay with me right. Whatever that means, i will be with you. And sources around cohen suggest the same, rick. They say that in the beginning, there was a suggestion of a pardon out there, but it went away where Michael Cohen is involved. And now we have everybody running him down when they used to laud him, to use the word of the moment. Right. And rick, you heard the president say, you know, he got convicted of these things that had nothing to do with me. Wheres he getting that from . What charge sheet is he reading . Well all of it has something to do with the president. Yeah, it has something to do with the president , but it doesnt have anything to do with the president necessarily doing something illegal. Look, the whole Campaign Finance thing who are they for . Do you think he was paying off those women for himself . Well, he could have been paying off women for a variety of reasons no. Including not wanting his family to know about that information. Wait a second theres no im saying Michael Cohen paying off these women was done for the president , we agree, right . I agree it was done for the president. That doesnt mean its illegal. Well, he pled guilty. Theres lots of question as to whether that, even if its true, you know, that you can prove that the only intent of the president he pleaded guilty. He pleaded guilty to a charge that i dont think you could have gotten a conviction, had he not pleaded guilty. But he pled guilty. You plead guilty for a lot of reasons to a lot of crimes in order to not have to suffer the consequences of other things you might have done but it makes you guilty. It may have had nothing to do with donald trump. It makes you guilty and this is clearly something related to the president and the payment that he was making on behalf of the president , which clearly ends up being a loan to the campaign and he lied to congress for the president. Ill tell you something, if you want to reward people for not being a rat, this guy had a great chance to submarine the president , rick. Michael cohen could have said, yeah, i lied to congress, and you know why, trump told me to. Thats why. He said, back me up, brother, and i said, okay, mr. President , i will. He never did any of that. No. He only did what was best for him. Whats that tell you . First off, im sure the president didnt tell him to lie to youre sure . Youre 100 sure . I cant imagine a president of the United States you only cant imagine it even this president oh, even this president. You dont know what he did and dont. Well, you dont either, chris. None of us know, but i cant imagine that this president would tell someone to lie. I mean, that would be particularly given fact really . Yeah, i cant. No the man lies with a lacrity, when the truth is a better story for him. Rick, what are you talking about . Look, theres a difference between someone who on occasion does stretch the truth when it comes known as day and night. Public statements. Theres a difference between doing that and lying when you can be prosecuted for that lie. This president and lying under oath is a very different thing than political hyperbole and other exaggeration rick has a point, christine. Thats why the president didnt want to testify in front of mueller. Other than his boasts to jonathan karl, i cant wait to do it under oath you answered the question. But he wouldnt do it under oath. You wouldnt tell your children its okay to lie on these things, but not when youre under oath. Thats the only time you have to tell the truth. And this president has shown that he is able and willing and consistently will lie in any way you define a lie. Be it immortal sin, however you decide to do it uhoh, shes getting catholic on you. Shes coming into your wheelhouse i get it all the time on this show. Not from me. I think im one of the few catholics youve got coming your way here. What im suggesting is no lie is a good thing, and i agree with you, christine, on all that, but the point we were discussing was whether the president would tell someone to lie under oath. Of course he would. And that is very different from all the things that weve accused of president of, sometimes justifiably, in the last couple of years. All right, fair enough. But heres what happens. So, this is the main concern, christine. I want to get a sense from both of you about this. This has been dismissed by the president and his supporters as not worthy of probity. Theres no reason to be looking at this. I agree. But why do they keep lying about it, christine . Thats what i dont get. To ricks point, we dont know that the president lied about any of this to people who it matters. Those questions were written for a reason. They were lawyered up and doctored for a reason, and by the way, i dont begrudge that. It would be silly to do it any other way, certainly given the disposition towards the modeasity of this president. Hed be foolish to do it any other way. His initial bomb bast was just that im going to sit down man to man with mueller. He was never going to do it. He wouldnt do it in civil suits nevertheless Something Like this nor should he have. Thats up to who you are and your confidence in your varity and he didnt have it, and thats okay. He did it like most would. I wouldnt have been surprised if he pleaded the fifth if it came down to a subpoena contest, then he would have felt differently about that than his bombast has suggested. But youre still left with a fundamental frustration if theres nothing there, why would Michael Cohen lie the way he did, thinking that he was helping the president . Why would papadopoulos lie about a meeting that should have meant nothing . Why would they come up with a stupid story about the trump tower meeting . Why would Michael Flynn lie about when he talked to an ambassador and when he didnt . Why, christine . You know, look, its that saying weve all heard, the coverup is often worse than the crime. And i think its just basic logic, basic common sense that if you havent done anything wrong, youre completely transparent and put everything out there. But if youre worried you did something wrong or you know you did something wrong, you hide it and you try to obfuscate. Thats what theyre doing here over and over. And if they didnt do anything wrong, which i believe they did, theyre making it a million times worse for themselves. So, if theres nothing there, show your cards and tell the truth. Otherwise, youre just making more clouds and more doubt against yourself. Right. I mean, look, my junior counselors mind, rick, my concern is this i dont think there are going to be any crimes. If im representing the president , im not worried about them bringing illegality his way. I dont think they can. I believe the doj guidance on it. I havent heard for reason to believe theyve asked for other guidance. I dont think theyll do a setaside indictment. Muellers never done anything like that in his career, even reading about the nfl and how they handle domestic violence. He doesnt do fancy complicated. He does straight in front of him. So its not about illegality. Its about a report that hes going to put together that could have pages and pages of a pattern of bad conduct that is beneath the level of a president. Are you worried about that, rick, as a supporter of the president . I am worried about it. First off, just the whole idea of a report where its, you know, look, its a document thats a onesided document. Its from a prosecutor trying to make a point of his prosecution. Whether its an actual prosecution or indictment, i should say. Lifelong republican whos always served with honor and never been accused of any perfity . I have concerns about the fact that theres going to be a onesided report that comes out thats going to be damning. I have no doubt its going to be a damning report. I think it would be nice if they shared that report with the president and he had an opportunity to actually have a rebuttal to that when it comes out. I mean, that way, at least the story i think they are planning to do exactly that. Yeah. I hope they do that. I do. I know thats one of the things ive heard. But it would be absolutely essential for fairness that both sides have a chance to tell their story at the same time. As long as the report comes out in full. I have to go. Ive run out of time, but thats an important point. Theyre going to control the process. The mandate to the special counsel only assumes that when theyre done, they give a report to the attorney general or the acting attorney general, the Deputy Attorney general at that time whatever. Whos overseeing the probe, but not to the american people. And if the president wants to put out a rebuttal, thats fine, but theyd better not taking out any of the things in the mueller report. I think its important, and a lot of folks are questioning the attorney general. The attorney general owes it to the president and any president to give him the opportunity to tell his side of the story at the same time when the reports come out, not one and then the other. And more important than the president is what he owes the american people. Yeah. I agreed. And thats a full disclosure of whats in the report and the attorney general of the acting or whatever it should all come out. Should not and cannot hold anything back unless its something of National Security no, let us decide whether theres something that is sensitive the medias not making that call. Thank god for the leaks, and theyll be coming. They wont come from the mueller side. They havent. As soon as this hits the white house oh, please. Well hear plenty. Christine, rick, well argued and thank you. Thank you. You know who was taken by trumps tweet in support of Michael Stone . His friend, caputo. He had to answer questions from the mueller team himself. He knows its very expensive and is here to make the case about why he is doing what hes doing. Next. Our new, hot, fresh breakfast will get you the readiest. Holiday inn express. Book now for at least 20 off during our annual sale. The president is creating more legal scrutiny and certainly political scrutiny for himself after crossing a new line in his antimueller tweets. He condemned his former attorney for turning on him, then he heaped praise on a longtime adviser for having guts because he potentially says he will defy the special counsel. Critics are crying witness tampering, even obstruction of justice. Lets hear what a trump defender and former campaign adviser, michael caputo, has to say about all of it. Welcome back to prime time. Good to see you. Good to see you, chris. Why is it okay for the president to say, if you shut your mouth, youre strong . Well, thats not what roger said he was going to do. He said he was not going to lie. He said he wasnt going to bear false witness against the president well, whos asking him to . Well, i believe that were looking at jerry corsi saying that they were asking him to do that. I think people who see whats going on with manafort now, paul manafort. Were going to find out soon but you know jerry corsi, looking through the pleadings, corsi lied to them. Its in there. Hell say, well, i thought right, but jerry corsi doing the best at the time. Thats on him. I dont know how you cannot remember what he didnt remember. Im not here to defend jerry corsi. I know that jerry corsi says he didnt recall an email exchange yeah, guy asked you to go to julian assange, you pass it on and you forget . Something thats at the center of this . Listen, he forwarded an email and didnt remember two years later. I understand the inability to remember every small thing you do in a matter of a moment. But that wasnt a small thing. Lets go to roger stone. What roger stone said was he wasnt going to bear false witness against the president. The president thought he was being a standup guy. I dont see anything wrong with supporting someone who said theyre going to tell the truth. Right. I just dont think that thats whats going on here, is that it seems that what the president is saying is, i reward you as strong for refusing to participate in the probe any more than you absolutely must, and thats just a weird thing but thats not what he said in his tweet, chris, and thats put the tweet up. Thats not what roger said in his interview. What roger said is hes not going to bear false witness against the president i know, but nobodys asking him to do that. Theyre asking him to come in and tell the truth and explain something that he has given a very twisted explanation for for a long time i will never testify against trump. This statement was recently made by roger stone, sexually sta essentially stating he will not be forced to make up lies and stories about President Trump. Nice to know some people still have guts. First of all, if you go by the lettering of his own tweet ill never testify against trump. Well, sometimes thats your duty is to come out and testify against, about, whatever preposition you want to use, and do your duty, because you have nothing to hide. Roger stone seems to be wanting to eraid that situation, and the president is saying, good. Whereas when Michael Cohen worked with prosecutors, the man you used to celebrate, now hes a rat because he worked with the government. Like were in the mob time. The people that you and i hate as an insult to our ethnicity, thats now the way the main mode the president looks at a prosecution. Rogers not been interviewed by the Mueller Investigation. True. Yet he suspects that he will be at some point. But you know, the way the tea leaves are being read by just about everybody, including you and this show and this network, is that theyre going to be asking roger stone to give witness that he somehow or another notified the president of something that went on with wikileaks. And roger knows that he never did that. So, he will not state that if hes asked. Hes not going to be the source of that kind of information, because being that source would mean that hes lying but nobodys asking him to lie. Like jerry corsi was asked to lie. There is an assumption that people are asking him to say some things that are untrue. Whos asking him to do is that . Who asked cohen to do that . Those of us in the jackpot of this thing believe people like Michael Cohen, for example, were tortured. You dont have to look any further than Michael Cohens face to know hes been through hell. Hes decided to say things that we dont believe are true, and roger has said that he proved its true. Im sorry . The reason mueller put his name on that pleading in part is because they have corroborative evidence of what Michael Cohen says about his lie before congress. Its not just that they decided to take his word all of a sudden. I know that be convenient for guys who want to besmirch him and defend the president , but thats not what happened. Im not saying there are communications that prove he was lying about saying the deal was over at the same time the president was saying he had no business with russia, which is demonstrably false. Right, but at the same time, i think its interesting that the Mueller Investigation after all this time and all this money has figured out that a developer was trying to build a hotel. This is ridiculous as far as im concerned they found out that a president was lying about what he was trying to do, and he wasnt trying to develop a hotel. He was not trying to develop a hotel. He was selling his name, michael. Thats all he was doing. He might have gotten a piece of the management of a hotel. He was just doing a deal, the same deal he always does, selling his name. Right, right, which is what he was doing all of his life. He was lying about what he was doing. Chris youve got to let me answer. I was just trying to make it clear. Hes been a builder all his life. He was running his business as a candidate for president. And Michael Cohen, like many other people in the trump organization, was charged with going out and trying to find deals and getting a piece of them if he succeeded. Yes. He wasnt succeeding. He actually rarely succeeded in these big deals, sold a lot of apartments, got a lot of slices of apartment sales, but didnt succeed in these big deals. It was another big deal that Michael Cohen was pursuing and the president was encouraging, he and all other people who were off pursuing deals to find those deals in case he had to continue his business and did not become president. Understood. I dont believe that the president was intimately involved in this. Sign the letter of intent. I dont believe the president im sorry. I dont believe the president was involved in a ridiculous idea that they were going to offer a 50 million apartment to vladimir putin, which is an idiotic idea. The president would never have given that kind of i dont know what he did. I know he signed the letter of intent. I know the president himself says hes the one who decided to kill the deal. I will tell you this, chris. I will tell you this, chris, that the president of the United States, the people around him were being pursued relentlessly by the Mueller Investigation, and in many ways, theyre being pushed through financial problems, financial issues. Thats why im trying to raise money for roger stone today on gofundme, you know. This financial punishment puts him against a wall, tries to get him to say things that arent true and thats what roger said he will not do. He will not bear false witness against the president and i think thats a strong and positive thing to say, something that takes guts, and thats what the president said, he liked rogers guts for saying that. As long as people tell the truth, theyll never have a problem. And well see when the report comes out and youll understand that roger said he was going to tell the truth. I know. Thats what the president was congratulating him for. I think roger stone responded in a way thats good for him to do. Hes a clever man, is very good at this. Well see what happens here. Spin in politics, chris . Spin in politics . Hes a master. Shocker. But when you dove tail it with the law it gets tricky. Michael caputo, thank you. Thank you. The nfl. We dont talk a lot about sports on this show, but this is about domestic violence. See what happened there . See kareem hunt, the huge running back for the chiefs . Did you see this video . Do you know what the league did when they found out about this video . Do you know what they didnt do . Next. Thats the least of it, by the way. All right, the nfl is facing new fire after tmz posted video of one of the leagues top running backs pushing and then kicking a woman back in february. Kareem hunt was cut from the Kansas City Chiefs roster soon after the video surfaced. Hes apologizing now. Hes gotten ten months since the incident. He says hes sorry. Lets bring in d. Lemon. And don, it took the nfl a long time to respond. This tape look, its not ray rice. Remember that video, right . But it doesnt have to be. Hes pushing people around. He winds up kicking his partner on the ground, while shes on the ground. My issue is what do you see in the leagues response . Well, for me look, two things. This is actually about him more than the league, those actions. Its not the first time hes been accused of this. Right. Its on video. The videos horrific. Theres no excuse. Yep. I know hes apologized. Hes a young man, hes 23 years old. I mean, his whole career i think is ahead of him is ruined. Thats what i think well, you shouldnt need video, right . Lots of cases look at this video. Come on, chris. Hes out of control. Hes an outofcontrol guy. You can put anybody in that video. I dont care what they look like, even if it was another woman, whatever. Its just awful its a crime. Its terrible he just kicked her. Theres no excuse. The nfls response, i have to say i think the Kansas City Chiefs acted pretty quickly from what i know about, but the nfl did an investigation and had not spoken to the woman nope. Or to him. They say she wouldnt talk to them. But its clear that once again they did what came easy, not what would be hard, which would be blowing this situation up and going after one of their own. How did tmz get the video and they not, or the cops couldnt get it or the nfl couldnt get it . Thats the thing desire that i dont understand. Desire. Who wants it got it. And its worth people going online and reading Robert Muellers report on the nfls botched youre going to get two things. One, youre going to get the truth about the nfl and how they slow walk these things and, two, youre going to see how mueller does his work, straight, clean. Were going to talk about mueller and the president coming up in our show. I was out in our hometown where we live. You know where town line barbecue is . Sure i do. Everybody at the bar was talking about this hunt story. Thats what was on everyones mind. Obviously its sunday, and football is on. But thats what they were talking about, how it was terrible what he did. But at this young age, they said he was like number three in touchdowns, and his amazing career over, gone. Awful, awful, awful for the woman, and to the other two people hes accused of doing it too. Yeah. But also 23 years old. His life, i think, with the nfl, i think is over. Touchdowns good. Touching people when they dont want you to, bad. A short while ago, President Trump and first lady melania arrived to pay their respects to president George Herbert walker bush, now lying in state at the u. S. Capitol. Its a beautiful moment. Its a moment of respect that this country is based on. 41 was a good man. He was a uniter, and hes going to be that even after his passing. Some things i want you to remember about who he was but, more importantly, how he was, next. Theres no place like home argh im trying. Yippiekiyay. Mom. President George Herbert walker bush has passed away, but the lesson of his life and leadership should pass to us all. Bush was old school. He believed that how you disagree matters, that america has the worlds attention and that he as president should respect that importance by exemplifying her at her best. As he put it america is never wholly herself unless she is engaged in high moral principle. We as a people have such a purpose today. It is to make kinder the face of the nation and gentler the face of the world. A thousand points of light, he said. Even if one of those lights isnt documented. Were creating a whole society of really honorable, decent, familyloving people that are in violation of the law. Bush wasnt perfect. He made his mistakes. His campaign brought us the Willie Horton ad, the irancontra partners, and a conspicuous reluctance to embrace the aids crisis. Of course there was, read my lips, no new taxes. But he didnt demonize opponents for calling out his mistakes. He even made fun of himself on saturday night live about the no new taxes fiasco despite the show having a cutting caricature of him portrayed by dana carvey. Im sorry, mr. President. I think its a fair impression. Dont see it. You dont . Its totally exaggerated. Its not me, those crazy hand gestures, the pointing thing. I dont do em. Also na ga da. Never said it. In all my years of government service, i never once said na ga da. Such was his reputation for good nature and morality that going rogue for bush while in office amounted to refusing to eat broccoli. I do not like broccoli, and i havent liked it since i was a little kid and my mother made me eat it. And im president of the United States, and im not going to eat any more broccoli. That was his version of locker room talk. Now, some see his kindness, his affability as weakness. Please, bush was the last president weve had to serve the country in a time of war. He was an 18yearold aviator in the deadliest time imaginable. The man jumped out of planes for fun until he was 90. But he gets my respect as a tough guy to be sure, most of all, because he constantly exhibited the hardest form of strength restraint. He would lose his bid for reelection, but he would Never Surrender his decency and become something ugly, something he saw as beneath his office. And we see now acutely how much that matters, how tough it can be to not give in to bombast. President bush chose the harder way. He surrendered the me to the we as a leader and addressed opponents as opposites but equals. He didnt disparage those that he disagreed with because he saw that as making them look bad, but making him look worse. The president said it best. Toughness with just attacking some individual. I dont attack i equate toughness with moral fiber, with character, with principle, with demonstrated leadership in tough jobs where you emerge not bullying somebody but with the respect of the people you led. Thats toughness. Thats fiber. Thats character. Ive got it, and if i happen to be decent in the process, that should not be a liability. To be sure, it was not a liability. It was an asset. The president s way of being president was a complement to the nation, and that is why you see both parties coming out to celebrate the man as well as the leader. President bushs passing comes at a time that we profoundly need a reminder of the qualities that he made a constant. My condolences to the family. My thanks to them for their service and the president s. My prayer is that god welcomes his son and that his spirit may yet guide us to follow our better points of light. May we find ways as he did to illuminate the darkness with our diversity and our decency. Amen to that. Thank you for watching. Cnn tonight with don lemon starts right now. You laid it out perfectly. Not a perfect man. Not a perfect man. He had his foibles. You can disagree with him on policy. You were right. He talked about irancontra, taxes, hivaids. He and reagan were excoriated about it at the time. You know, it was terrible. But you can disagree with someone ideologically and not demonize them and realize that no one is perfect. And also i think that what we do sometimes is we tend to look at things sometimes, chris, through a 2016, 17, 18 lens from 20, 30, 40 years ago when sometimes you cant really do that. Those were the times back then. Things are different now. True. I often think that you do have to reflect on men and women in their moment in time, right . You cant have such bold expectations for people. Some people transcend. But you do have to look at somebody within their own temporal restrictions. But decency doesnt work that way. Right. Politics doesnt work that way. We have been mean and buck nasty in politics for a long time. I just finished a book about the lincolndouglas debates. They were mean, do