That. If the president is eventually impeached by acquitted in the senate and the trial. Would that embolden him for reelection . Well talk about that. Rudy giuliani role in ukraine scandal is extensive and hes said to be shopping for an attorney. How much of a liability is he for President Trump . Congresswoman hill giving her final speech on the floor as she resigns amid allegations with a relationship with a staffer. Allegations she denies. She claims shes been forced to give up her seat due to a double standard. Is she right . Well talk about that later in this hour. But lets get to this historic day thats been playing out. Good evening to all of you. Thanks for joining. Ill start with you. The testimony from White House National security official corroborates claims of a quid pro quo. Unfolding. With Holding Ukraine aid in the exchange for investigation into the bidens. But hes also said that he didnt think anything on the call was illegal. The white house says testimony is good for them. How do you see it . Obviously im looking forward to reading the full deposition. The report of the testimony suggests he did in fact corroborate realtime concerns about the withholding of 400 million in u. S. Security assistance to ukraine with the condition being trump wanted the investigations launched. Remember that others especially u. S. Acting ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor, has already said morrison was basically a key source conveying this information, conveying in realtime so morrison would have been in a tough position to be denying this information that bill taylor had already testified to under oath. I mean, look, how much does it matter how much his interpretation of it is . Is he a lawyer . I dont know what to make of him saying, well, he didnt deem it to be illegal. In general the facts that have been presented to us at this point about President Trumps actions and the realtime concerns of Trump Administration officials are pretty striking. So you can see why they are going to move ahead to these public hearings. You say morrisons view of the law is irrelevant and his action is he was worried about the call. I think so. It really says a lot about how basically monolithic the testimony has been, this is something the republicans are saying was good for them. Yeah, he very much corroborates taylor. He heard sondland and giuliani who are going to be the marquee villains next to trump when they have the trial. His view, its funny he says he did want think it was illegal but hes worried about it makes it clear he was undermining the National Security interest for us and ukraine which makes it maladministration on trumps point. You say that morrisons claim that nothing was illegal with the call will give republicans something to work with. Why do you say that . Well, for the obvious reason they can say heres another guy who did not see a problem with the call. You know, i do think we have to be a little bit skeptical about morrisons analysis if only because he was aware of the decision by john eisenberg, the lawyer for the National Security council, to move the records of the call into this highly classified separate server. He kind of has to say he didnt see it as a legal problem. If he saw it as a legal problem, hes kind of copping to being a party to obstruction. So i think weve got to be a little skeptical of that. Like susan, i want to read the whole transcript. I dont really like getting these selective accounts of what took place during a many hours deposition in which most likely there were lots of nuances that were not talking about. Can i get to something you said, you said republicans said he didnt see a problem with the call. He did see a problem with the call because he was concerned about it and concerned about it being move. He said he didnt think it was illegal and i think thats an important distinction. Susan, this historic vote in the house today, not a single republican voted in favor of it. And you say the gop is betting that trump outlives the president s time in office. Explain that to me. Look, you know, there have been many, many appeals to history on the part of those seeking to get some republicans to vote this way. Its something ive been mystified by to a certain extent from the very beginning. Odds are that whatever the shortterm political calculations, its hard to imagine that trump is going to go down as anything other than a pretty extraordinary and disruptive president. And yet no republicans, not a single one in the house of representatives have raised their hand to say, like, i want an investigation. Todays vote wasnt even a vote on whether or not to impeach him. It was simply a vote to say i would like an investigation, i would like public hearings, i would like to have a process in place. You know, when they had a vote in the bill clinton proceedings there were 31 democrats who joined republicans in saying we would like to move forward with this even though a number of those did not ultimately vote for bill clintons impeachment. I think it tells you where we are in term of our politics where you couldnt get one person other than justin amash who broke with trump earlier this year, he tweeted out to his fellow republicans, hey, history is going to look poorly on this and not a single one took up the call. Michael, House Speaker pelosi said this back in march. She said impeachment is so divisive to the country unless there is something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan i dont think we should go down that path because it divides the country and thats not worth it. The question to the speaker are the same questions i provided in the letter about the unfair process that we had. What has changed since march . Could the fact, michael, that this vote was not bipartisan come back to haunt the democrats . I think its yeah, i think its theyve got to be worried about that because there is you know, clearly the democrats, pelosi, schiff, others had for over a year been talking about the importance of impeachment being bipartisan. And the fact not a single republican voted bipartisan today was pretty striking to me. Mike of texas, rooney of pennsylvania, they didnt. You know, playing this out if no republicans will vote for impeachment in the house, thats going to make it harder for Senate Republicans to defect themselves and vote. It will it will help the president. And it could change the calculus for democrats. What they may want to do if seeing they know what the results in the senate, maybe they dont want to rush this. Maybe they want to drag it out, bring it into next year, have these hearings continue and wound the president politically as much as you can if you know the outcome is pretty much mutt were doing. Two federal Court Hearings today that could set the tone for the impeachment inquiry. I just want to start with the former White House Council don mcgahn. Hes been ignoring subpoenas to testify. And a judge saying today we dont live in a world where your status as a former executive branch official somehow shields you from investigation. They had the doj there also saying, hey, the executive branch cant sue the congress. But thats not whats happening. Its don mcgahn whos being sued because hes taking the lead from the president and its a very outlandish legal claim. Thank you, i appreciate all of you. The president thinks the best way to defend his perfect ukraine call, the one that setoff the impeachment inquiry is a fireside chat. He really said that. Well chat about it next. On the day the house made history voting to advance impeachment inquiry President Trump sounds like he hasnt learned the lessons of the other president s. He has interesting ideas on how to defend himself. Here to help us get some perspective. Gentlemen, welcome. First up i want to get your thoughts on this new interview he gave to the conservative Washington Examiner newspaper. Heres part of it. Ask whether he would cooperate with the impeachment proceedings by honoring documents and subpoenas. He responded you are setting a terrible precedent for other president s. Arent president s supposed to be subject to over sight by congress . Absolutely. Hes just stone walling. Like he always does. It was a bit of a weird interview. I read it was 80 minutes. And he kept using strange history analogy. Claiming hes going to do a fire side chat which was famously fdr radio addresses to the country to help us out of the great depression. To be optimistic and talk about Soil Conservation or fighting the dust bowl or bunk foreclosures. Hes doing that to to do a reading a Poetry Reading of the transcript. He thinks if he stresses or emphasizes a word here or there it will make him look better. It seemed to be silly. And if hes going to learn something from clinton, what he did is worse than me. He should get a war room going like clinton did. The number of people coming out of the Trump Administration that are basically telling congress that this is not okay with trump did, with ukraine. Its historic and big. And hes marching down a load of bones to impeachment. In weeks. Lets continue on with the theme. You mention clinton. He goes on and says Everybody Knows i did nothing wrong. Clinton did things wrong. Nixon did things wrong. I wont go to johnson because that was before my time. Hes comparing himself to the other president s. How does that stack up . It wont be a surprise if i tell you that hes wrong. What were seeing in the material thats come out from the investigation so far. Im talking about things publicly available. Not the transcript. This is the key. Yes we have gotten leaks from democrats. Leave those aside. Look at the testimony the statements that have been released. And the call transcript. Summary. Thats enough for you to see the pattern of abuse of power. Which fits neatly into the second article of impeachment against nixon. Donald trump has done the same thing. Its the same spirit. You take the power of the presidency and use it for your own person gain. That is what quid pro quo is all about. Thats what nixon did. Not with foreign countries. He did it at home to go against enemies. Whats interesting when he compares himself to clinton. He ended up with white water. And ended up with an affair. It wasnt as if a crime was committed first or abuse of power. They were looking into one thing and found it was a grab back. They were looking for whatever they could get. Something worth remembering. Bill clinton broke a law. He committed a felony. Perjury. What our founders decided what that it had to be a high crime. When Richard Nixon lied on his taxes, also bad, also a crime. The House Committee said thats not impeachable. So not all crimes are impeachable. Bill clintons crime wasnt impeachable. Doug, you point out this process is being viewed through a much more partisan lens than the watergate investigation during the 1970s. Whats changed since then . Well, a lots changed. When Richard Nixon was president he did things like create the Environmental Protection agency and clean air and water. And many republicans got angry at nixon. There became a movement for needing to regulate, the beginning of really libertarian catching hold, the beginning of the conservative movement with ronald reagan. And postwatergate republicans started forming their own organizations and narratives, the business round table, the heritage foundation, the American Enterprise institute, you know, fox news, the federalist society. I can go on and on. They have so many lobbyists in washington, so much money putting into politics. The trump team was able to take an ad out on game 7 of the world series. So he talked wearing impeachment like a badge of honor saying Donald Trumps working for the country while democrats are just trying to destroy everything. So they are they learned from that commandment of ronald reagan, stick together. So youre going to see very few, maybe only mitt romney. There might be one or two more but this idea of a Margaret Chase smith moment or of a howard baker or barry gold water. Its unlikely particularly because 2020 is an election yea year. Tim, i understand you were disappointed not one republican voted. It was to have an open mind to investigate what the whistleblower setout. It was not a vote on whether you thought donald trump was guilty. So it was about process. It was about making sure there was a fair and open process. Which republicans have argued. Which theyve argued all along. I was disappointed not because people who voted for inquiry would vote against trump, but they would say lets put oevg on the table and look at it. It was a disappointing moment because these members of congress have forgotten they have a constitutional requirement. One of the differences between now and the 70s, there was a time theyd get angry at any president , republican or democrat, if they produced the powers of a congress. Today theyre lapdogs. The president already thinks he can shoot someone on fifth avenue and get away with it. What happens if hes impeached but not convicted . In the last year, there were three victims of cybercrime every second. 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Com tv a huge step in the house of the representatives today with the approval of a resolution to advance the impeachment inquiry into President Trump. But is the president now more emboldened than ever . Joining me now to discuss. Good evening to you. David, time after time you have been on this show and on this network covering him. Facing these crisis and of his own making and he survived. Even more emboldened than before. Access hollywood. Charlottesville. Very fine people on both sides, im sure you remember that. The mueller investigation. What happens if hes impeached and not convicted in the senate . It potentially could be one of these if you come at the king you best not miss or whatever doesnt kill you makes you stronger situations. President trump survived the other episodes where other politicians may have stumbled. And the reason is that theres a through line through the episodes and its something that his supporters have bought from him which is this idea of grievance. The talks in washington screwed everything in america up. Screwed you Trump Supporters and now theyre trying to do it again attacking President Trump. And he will be able to sort of spin that and use it as a campaign fuel. The problem is that if youre a democrat in congress, you have to do your constitutional job which from their point of view is proceeding with this impeachment investigation. Its interesting he is gotten people to believe they are grieved. When really to vote against their own interest. Thats fascinating. Remember the infamous call with ukraine. It happened a day after the mueller testimony on capitol hill. He learned nothing from the whole mueller investigation. Including what this upheaval does to the country. Interesting. I was at an event last night in pennsylvania that the Trump Campaign put on. Called the witch hunt party. There were a few trump surrogates there speaking to the crowd. There were no members of the administration or trump family. And the crowd there i talked to trump voters about what they think of this, when they say its a witch hunt they seem to think everybody is out to get trump from day one. Before he took office. And they dont have any patience for learning the details of what happened with the ukrainian president. Theyre not superinterested in it. They dont even have basic facts. A lot of the people. It just doesnt matter to them. They seem to think nothing can change how they feel about that. And that the democrats and the media are one entity. And they feel how they feel about trump and thats whats happening in washington is happening. Its the out come were talking about the trump getting impeached in the house. I acquitted in the senate. It would be his ideal out come. It would allow him to continue to claim to be a victim. To be this martyr for the supporters. And to claim that he is exonerated. We saw it happen after the barr later. Claiming total exoneration. Or after the report. When that was not the case. And we would see it again. Its interesting. You wonder the people who live on the coast, and washington d. C. The media. In a bubble. Those people have the facts. So whos really in the bubble . Yeah. Whos really in the bubble. Were all in a bubble. You think about it no one wants to be in a fact free world. I would rather be aware. Ignorance is not bliss. They dont check the facts. Were talking about the just a basic facts of impeachment. You cant agree on who placed a call. Who was on the call. Whether or not it was a transcript or full or memorandum. Whether or not words were missing. They dont trust the testimony. Or the reports characterizing testimony. We cant agree on whether or not the sky is blue. Its difficult to get through to a certain faction of the public who sides with trump. Who just is inclined to be very distrustful of anybody part of the establishment they view him as taking on. We have known this since 2015. It hasnt changed. Who is in the bubble. Go on. Can i just add, yeah, i think part of the framing of this culture of grievance that trump fuelled off is by portraying himself as being outside of the bubble. Were all journalists here. I lived in North Carolina and california. Youre from new york and louisiana. Trump likes to portray everybody in the media as being from the washington, new york corridor. Its not true. Were from the same america. Meanwhile he frames himself as im just the average billionaire with my gold plated faucet and my gold plated helicopter, just like you out of work 50yearold auto worker in wisconsin. And somehow theres a large segment of the country thats launched onto that even though theres a wide, wide gulf between President Trump and his life and career and middle america. Yeah. But if i may, if i can just add i agree it is a lot of that. But its also that he has always claimed, i think the part we sometimes forget to mention that donald trump has always claimed from day one is that he understands how the system is rigged because he has benefitted from this system thats corrupt. And he will now do it again on behalf of his supporters. And i think thats the part that we miss, where theyre not saying, oh, you know, donald trump is just like me, but theyre saying he can make me more like him by working in this corrupt system on my behalf. Right, if i was a billionaire i would wear a suit 23 hours a day, i would have a bunch of wives and all my faucets would be gold plated if i were a billionaire. And again i say whos actually in the bubble . And i think about all that lived, many of them red, alabama, louisiana, missouri, georgia, new jersey, pennsylvania and new york i mean, okay. So, anyway, let me get this in, olivia. Trumps daughter and Senior Advisor ivanka trump tweeted this in defense of her father. She said surrounded by enemies and spy catching and perverting every word that falls from my lips or flows from my pen and inventing where facts fail them and she adds some things never change, dad. And shes playing into another one of trumps defenses in that hes a victim. And shes putting it into the context as if this has been historically this president ial attitude to have. I thought it was a clever statement on her part and im sure her father was very happy about it. But i dont think a Statement Like that really makes a big difference in terms of what the supporters think or what people who are not inclined to side with them think. Thank you both. Fascinating conversation. Did you want to add something quickly, david, or youre good in. No, thats it. Ivanka trump, we need a whole special show for that. Thanks, guys. See you soon. Steer clear of Rudy Giuliani. Thats what a Top White House russia advisor says he was told. Were going to take a look at giulianis role at the center of all this. Thats next. 9. 95 at my age . 9. 95 . No way. 9. 95 . Thats impossible. Hi, im jonathan, a manager here at Colonial PennLife Insurance company, to tell you it is possible. If youre age 50 to 85, you can get Life Insurance with options starting at just 9. 95 a month. Okay, jonathan, im listening. Tell me more. Just 9. 95 a month for Colonial Penns number one most popular whole Life Insurance plan. There are no Health Questions to answer and there are no medical exams to take. Your acceptance is guaranteed. Guaranteed acceptance . I like guarantees. Keep going. And with this plan, your rate is locked in for your lifetime, so it will never go up. Sounds good to me, but at my age, i need the security of knowing it wont get cancelled as i get older. This is Lifetime Coverage as long as you pay your premiums. It can never be cancelled, call now for free information. Youll also get this free beneficiary planner. Use this valuable guide to record your Important Information and give helpful direction about your final wishes to your loved ones. And its yours free. Its our way of saying thank you just for calling. So call now. The president personal attorney Rudy Giuliani is looking for an attorney himself. That comes as federal prosecutors investigate possible financial crimes connected to giulianis ukraine work as well as possible foreign lobbying violations for those efforts. So far President Trump is mostly stood by giuliani in spite of what seems to be a series of unforced errors. Cnns tom foreman has more now. Reporter undeniably there are people close to the president who fear the actions of the president s personal attorney could be a huge liability if the president s impeachment keeps going forward. But a liability to donald trump or to Rudy Giuliani himself . Thats the question. Truth isnt truth. Truth isnt truth. Do you realize dont do this to me. Reporter in the swirling storm of the ukraine scandal as much or more than the president shutoff, moron, shut up. Reporter Rudy Giuliani his lawyer is at the center. Youre just repeatng spin. Reporter time has put him on its front page calling him a shadow secretary of state even as witnesses told congress it was giuliani who setup back Door Communications with the ukrainians bypassing the state department. Giuliani who the president wanted to talk to when he requested an investigation of democrat joe biden, saying in a phone call if you could speak to him, that would be great. And youll ony who continues to claim with zero proof that russian interference was not the fbi did everything they could to keep this information away. The president s defense of giuliani has been at times strong, at times tepid as giulianis behavior has careened into the surreal. For example this week when he attacked democrats for their probe into trumps actions but tweeted he trump did ask for an investigation. Or when he apparently butt dialled an nbc reporter who overhead him apparently complaining about biden and looking for cash. Are you concerned that Rudy Giuliani could be indicted in all of this . Well, i hope not. But after two of giulianis clients soviet born american businessmen were charged with surm comventing u. S. Election laws, giuliani has been showing up in the media to defend the president less often and sources say hes been shopping for an attorney of his own. Laura, this stinks. Its impossible to imagine Rudy Giuliani will stay out of the spotlight because like trump he clearly enjoys attention. But this kind of attention, maybe not so much. Don in. Tom, thank you so much, and youre right maybe not so much. Lets discuss now with Shimon Prokupecz and renato mariotti. Rudy giulianis fingerprints are all over this ukraine impeachment inquiry. And today top official tim morrison testified and this is quote, dr. Hill told me ambassador sondland and President Trumps personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, were trying to get zelensky to reopen ukrainian investigators into burisma. We already know they had saw his testimony and he essentially gave the democrats the middle finger. I suspect, you know, if push comes to shove hes going to take the fifth. If i was his attorney id advise him to say nothing. Of course hes not taking me up on that. Hes been tweeting up a storm. But he really is at the center of this entire episode. So of course theyre going to want his testimony for sure. So youre right about the tweets. So last night the former mayor tweeted this about the state departments number two official testified giuliani had been involved in the removal of a former ambassador to ukraine. He said the ambassador nominee doesnt know what hes talking about and shouldnt be incorrectly speculating. This is an attempt to harass me in my role as trumps attorney. But he said this, im not acting as a lawyer, im acting as someone whos devoted most of his life to straightening out government. Shimon, is giuliani acting as trumps attorney or not . This is all why i think time and time again i think we keep hearing from the people who have come before congressional investigators and testified. They were all warned. What we keep hearing consistently is stay away from Rudy Giuliani. So what was going on . What were they seeing . Were was he doing . And if he was acting as the president s lawyer, why would he be involved in this shadow what people are now saying the Shadow State Department . Trying to act out of his own interests. And whoever was guiding him, these two people, these two y ukrainians he was working with, what is going on . Its still unclear. Thats why investigators are still unclear, why the sdny, why the fbi has taken some of this on. Clearly he got in trumps ear and started telling him this stuff about ukraine and maybe trump started buying into it or thought it was a Good Campaign strategy or what have you to investigate. We shall see thats part of what theyre trying to figure out. Its interesting he would have youll yawny just going off as a loose canon freelancing this stuff. Shimon, you have some new reporting on what prosecutors in new york are looking into. Giulianis Ukraine Business dealings as it relates to the 2020 election. That investigation is still ongoing. What weve been told are the prosecutors are very concerned about the timing here. Were getting into the 2020 election. Theyre very concerned about bringing charges close to the election. The other thing is this charge, whether or not they can just charge that which is his failure to register for it work hes doing essentially on behalf of ukraine. Weve been told theyre a little hesitant to bring that charge. That charge theyve had a hard time with it recently trying to get conviction. Theyve lost some high profile cases the department of justice with that charge. The point of this is this is much bigger than him not registering. And also its going to have to be something big, when you think about bringing charges against another lawyer, another president s lawyer, that is going to have to entail something much larger than just oh, well, he didnt register as a ukraine the fact hes working for ukraine. How much trouble is he in . Whenever you have the subject of a criminal investigation youre in big trouble and Rudy Giuliani should be taking this a lot more serious than he is. Congresswoman katie hill resigning today because of allegations of an improper relationship, but she didnt go out without a fight. Youve got to hear what she said, and well play it for you after this. The Gillette Skinguard has a guard between the blades that helps protect skin. The Gillette Skinguard. In the last year, of cybercrime every second. When a criminal has your personal information, they can do all sorts of things in your name. Criminals can use ransomware, spyware, or malware to gain access to information like your name, your birthday, and even your Social Security number. [announcer] thats why norton and lifelock are now part of one company, providing an all in one membership for your cyber safety that gives you identify theft protection, device security, a vpn for online privacy, and more. And if you have an Identity Theft problem, well work to fix it with our Million Dollar protection package. There are new Cyber Threats out there everyday, so protecting yourself isnt a one time job, its an ongoing need. Now is the time to make sure that you have the right plan in place. Dont wait. [announcer] norton 360 with lifelock. Use promo code get25 to save 25 off your first year and get a free shredder with annual membership. Call now to start your membership or visit lifelock. Com tv democratic congresswoman katie hill of california gave her final speech on the floor of the house today. She now has plans to resign after a conservative blog released intimate photos of hill alleging she and her husband had a relationship with an unknown female campaign staffer. She apologized to her supporters but said the forces that led her to leave congress are larger than she is. I am leaving now because of a double standard. I am leaving because i no longer want to be used as a bargaining chip. Im leaving because i didnt want to be peddled by papers and blogs and websites used by shameless operatives for the dirtiest gutter politics that ive ever seen. Im leaving but we have men who have been credibly accused of intentional acts of Sexual Violence and remain in boardrooms on the Supreme Court in this very body and worst of all in the oval office. So the fight goes on to create the change that every woman and girl in this country deserves. Lets discuss now. Alice stewart, karen phinney, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. Karen, you first. It was an emotional moment. What do you think about it . Is there a double standard at play here . Oh, absolutely, 1,000 . I mean, no question. I mean, as she pointed out, start at the white house. Make your way over to the Supreme Court. Then you can, with a little kick over to congress, then head up to new york and make your rounds. Absolutely there is in our culture a double standard. And i think she was right to point that out and right to call out some of the other issues that were at play here in terms of the way women are shamed, the way rape culture works, the way misogyny works it was extortion what her exhusband and these rightwing blogs and those who were putting out those images, thats essentially what they were doing. I know its illegal in the state of california so i hope hes punished to the fullest extent of the law, and i hope we pass laws that say, you cant publish peoples pictures without their permission. Hill took aim at the Supreme Court, presumably justice kavanagh, the president as well, for intentional acts of Sexual Violence. Is that a valid comparison . Or are these different scenarios you think . I think each of these you view through different lenses. And look, her speech today was extremely powerful. She made some very compelling points. It was heartbreaking to see her as she apologized to family and supporters and little girls who looked up to her. But also the could i point from the personal standpoint of this, her being really a victim of her bitter, jealous, scumbag estranged husband who exposed these compromising photos of her, and its heartbreaking. From the political lens, look, she wants to talk about the double standard. Nancy pelosi herself said due to her actions, its untenable for her to continue to serve in congress. No democrat supported her in staying in her position. So if she wants to talk about that, she needs to look also at a lot of democrats who didnt come by her side. I want to play from nancy pelosi. I know, but she wasnt forced to step down i just want to play the nancy pelosi speech, then you can continue. Lets play what nancy pelosi said. Katie hills decision to resign is her decision to resign. It is shes an absolutely Outstanding Young public servant. Very smart, strategic, patriotic, loves our country, respected by her colleagues in the congress for the work that she does here. Regardless of any errors in judgment that anyone may have made, its shameful that shes been exposed to public humiliation by way of cyber exploitation and i caution everyone that they too may be subjected to that. Go ahead, alice. Yeah, thats a classic case of, if katie hill says that she was pushed out by republican operatives, this was an opportunity, if she needed help from the democrats, nancy pelosi could have stood behind her. It was katie hills decision to step down. I cannot imagine what shes going through personally and im sure that was a big part of it, but it was her decision to step down from her position in congress. Karen, i want you to respond, but this is from the highly respected political report that tracks elections. The reality is had she not resigned she probably would have been fined politically in californias 25th, nothing thats surfaced would have changed our rating. Should she have fought harder to stay in . You know what, heres the thing. We cant know the answer to that, that is only something that katie knows. Heres the thing i think is so important. We dont know privately what else she may have feared was out there and her decision was clearly i mean, and it was because of these rightwing blogs, because they said to her, we have hundreds more photos that we will release systematically every day. Thats why i say its extortion. I think pelosi tried to be wanted to be supportive, but again, you know its a little bit like franken, some people wanted him to stay, he made the decision to leave because he knew that was the right thing for him. Well, shes gone now. Thank you both. But shell be back. She made that point. Fascinating conversation, see you soon. 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Happy thanksgiving, everybody. Happy thanksgiving