Say, trying tying themselves up in knots, trying to say something, anything, to put an end to the firestorm over president trumps crude remarks about immigration from african countries. Now they seem to have settled on the i dont remember defense. Homeland security secretary Kirsten Nielsen saying she couldnt remember what the president said in that oval office meeting. A furious senator cory booker slamming secretary nielsen. Your silence and amnesia is complicity. And senator Lindsey Graham going on to say this this has turned into a sshow. And we need to get back to being a great country, where democrats and republicans Work Together to do something that we should have done years ago. Yeah. Good luck with that. Hopes are fading for daca. A daca deal with just three days to go, until the deadline to avert a Government Shutdown. We have the perfect person here, cnns chief Political Correspondent is dana bash. She joins us now with more on this breaking news. Where do we start . Lets talk about tonight, all right . Steve bannon appearing before the House Intel Committee today in a marathon session. It lasted for more than ten hours. Whats going on . What do you know . It lasted for more than ten hours, yet it seems as though much of the toing and froing was much about the questions steve bannon said he was unable to answer. I am told by a source that bannon was told explicitly by the white house, at least his legal team was, you cannot talk about things that happened in the transition, and things that happened while you were in the white house, because we, the white house, the executives, the president , is claiming executive privilege. As you said, they pushed back on that. Even subpoenaed him, and it didnt go very far. He answered the question one of the questions that he was asked about things that he told the president , his father saying its executive privilege, which doesnt really exist in that particular context. But in this one, it does. But what i am told, it made lawmakers on both sides of the aisle even more angry is bannon said that he was going to give answers to Robert Mueller. And the reason is because executive privilege only exists when youre talking about the legislative branch versus the executive branch. It doesnt exist when youre talking about a federal criminal inquiry. So he says hes going to give answers to Robert Mueller . He will . Then why did Robert Mueller subpoena him then . Im told the likely answer is that because steve bannon said the things he said in the book fire and fury and then kind of walked it back in a statement, subsequent statement, what the special counsel Robert Mueller wants to do is make it very cheer to steve bannon and also the president that he, steve bannon, is going to have to come before mueller and tell the truth, what really happened, what he really knows. So that is but that happens when mueller gets his chance. But now with the house, can they force him to cooperate . What happens now . No, they really cant force him to cooperate. I dont think any more than it has. There could be more toing and froing if the republicans in charge in the house in particular want to make a bigger deal out of this and they could try to challenge the claim of executive privilege in a more formal way. But its unclear if they will really go there, particularly knowing that at the end of the day, this is kind of what executive privilege is, and also knowing that he is going to answer questions in a formal setting with the special counsel. Democrats are not happy because adam schiff, the ranking democrat, accused the white house of putting a gag order on steve bannon. And that is kind of what they did. By saying by claiming executive privilege, theyre saying dont answer questions about the time you were in the transition and in the white house. I want you to stand by. I want to bring in john dean, former white House Counsel for president nixon. And renaldo mariotti, who is running for attorney general of illinois. Gentlemen, good evening. Welcome to the program. Ranaldo, steve bannon is evoking executive privilege. Is there precedent for that . There isnt. That is really bizarre. Theyre claiming executive privilege when donald trump was not yet the executive. So thats a problem for them. You know, we have seen very often people from the administration refuse to answer questions without saying why, without saying theyre invoking executive privilege. Now were seeing the reason why that is, because when you invoke executive privilege, theres case law out there, in other words, Court Decisions out there on this issue. And i think if the Congress Actually pushed back, which is a big question, i think dana is right. You know, Congress Seems to have been fairly compliant with the president thus far. But if they push back, i think they would prevail on those questions. John dean, representative jim heins says that bannon is claiming executive privilege toward conversations he had with other people other than the president. Is that going to wash . It shouldnt. As was outlined, there really is no such thing as executive privilege. Its a myth that has been codified by the Supreme Court in case law, in u. S. Versus nixon. But it really is based on the separation of powers. The fact that the president himself can withhold information. He cant force bannon to not testify without him getting an injunction against him, which would be unprecedented. If bannon wanted to testify, he could testify. I was in the same situation when i testified. Nixon didnt want me testifying. He could have said, well, its executive privilege, and i would say, im going to tell the truth, i dont care what you think about it. Interesting. Heins also said there were a number of copies of fire and fury. What is your reaction to that . Wow. Well, you know, its funny, it seems to me like bannon is trying to get back in the good graces of the white house. You know, i think john was right to point out that if bannon wanted to talk, he could do it. Executive privilege is a shield, its not a sword. In other words, it couldnt be used to stop him from talking. It can just be used by him to prevent himself from talking. So it seems to me like hes now bending over backwards to say, just like you were talking at the top of the hour, we have the secretary saying she didnt recall the president s words from a few days ago. Now we have bannon saying i didnt really mean what i said. Unfortunately for him, hes got to go before Robert Mueller. You talked about that earlier. Hes not going to have such an easy time. Unlike congress, mueller is going to be very aggressive about any claim of privilege and he wouldnt be successful in claiming it against mueller. Go ahead, dana. And just by way of context and steve bannon has not been shy about saying this, that even take the executive privilege out of this. Hes not been shy about saying that he thinks it is outrageous that the Republicanled Congress in the house and the senate have agreed to investigate the republican president. So we have to remember thats the backdrop and the context through which the president s former counselor agreed that what the white house is telling him is something that he should follow, meaning executive privilege. I think its interesting hell talk to a book author and answer questions from a book author, but he wont answer questions im guessing that is something that was brought up in that hearing room today. So john, whats the legal jeopardy he could be in . Well, if the republicans were aggressive in wanting to get his testimony, they could hold him in contempt for failing to answer. That would bring the issue into litigation. Right now its being used as a double speak. The president says i cant talk, so im not going to talk. But hes doing that voluntarily. Before the grand jury, he doesnt have that option. That law has been settled and the grand jury has the right to his testimony. So hes going to have to talk there. I want to ask you, because dana has said this, you mentioned this a moment ago. Sources have confirmed to cnn that special counsel Robert Mueller subpoenaed steve bannon to testify before a grand jury. This is the first member of the trump inner circle. Why issue a subpoena here . What is that all about . I think thats an interesting question, one i explored earlier today on twitter, because i found it a fascinating question, too. Typically in a situation like this, muellers team would reach out to bannons attorney. There would be an informal interview that would be negotiated just like we saw with the other folks on the trump team. What it told me is mueller wants to get bannon in a room without a lawyer, and a Court Reporter present. So just so viewers understand, when i would put witnesses in the grand jury, there would be no one there, no defense attorney making objections or talking to his client. Its just the grand jurors, me, and a Court Reporter and that witness. And i would be asking tough questions. You could ask if you wanted to in a very crossexamination like style. And those questions will be recorded by a Court Reporter. Its different in an informal interview. Often those interviews can be very productive. As we found out earlier this year, with gates, excuse me, with papadopoulos and flynn, lying to an fbi agent in an informal interview can be a problem, too. But i think mueller really wants to pin bannon down. I think he is concerned that he would not get as good of answers if bannon had an attorney present and didnt have a Court Reporter there. Up next this week, hope hicks and corey lewandowski. Well be reporting on that. Thank you, john, thank you, renaldo. I appreciate that. Dana, stick around. When we come back, the clock is ticking for congress to figure funding, how to fund the federal government before the weekend. Now republicans are making a lastditch attempt to avoid a shutdown. Do they have a shot . I thought i was managing my moderate to severe Crohns Disease. Then i realized something was missing. Me. My symptoms were keeping me from being there. So, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of Crohns Disease after trying other medications. And the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you, and them. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, remission is possible. You wont see these folks they have businesses to run. They have passions to pursue. How do they avoid trips to the post office . Stamps. Com mail letters, ship packages, all the services of the post office right on your computer. Get a 4 week trial, plus 100 in extras including postage and a digital scale. Go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again. Breaking news tonight, a looming Government Shutdown, just three days away. Republicans in the house moving to pass a shortterm spending bill to fund the government, including introduce continuing resolutions that would go through february 16. I want to bring in Phil Mattingly to fill us in on all of this. The shutdown deadline on friday night fast approaching. What is the state of play and the daca deal . On the former, its a mess right now. On the latter, its stalled out completely. Starting with the Government Shutdown. Republican leaders have made very clear in the house and senate, theyre moving daca to the side. Even thats what democrats say is a prerequisite of any of their votes. Republicans want a shortterm spending bill. That spending bill in the house was unveiled tonight. Just a short while ago, the House Freedom caucus was meeting behind closed doors. At least one of their members emerged and made very clear House Republican leaders dont have the votes for the spending bill they released tonight. To put this in context, for House Republicans and Senate Republicans to even get this process started, basically to get the car out of the garage without the axle breaking before you hit the ignition, they need the House Republicans to pass this spending bill. If that is not an option at this point, theyre back at square one and perhaps more importantly, democrats are now back on the table and democrats have made clear theyre not willing to move, at least to this point, without daca. So where does that leave us now as we approach 48 hours, 72 hours before a shutdown . Open questions, don. Right now there are not a lot of answers. Still at this point, weve been with house and Senate Republicans, pretty sure where they want to go, but no pathway to get there yet. Theyre proposing something they know they dont have the votes for off the bat . Yes. Its been an interesting couple of hours. Theres two things to keep a close eye on here. House republicans and what happens in the senate. Mitch mcconnell needs democratic votes. So thats in play right there, because of the daca issue. In the house, they can pass this on their own. They have a simple majority, enough to pass a spending bill. Paul ryan tonight had a closed door Conference Meeting with House Republicans. Where a lot of republicans came out of that meeting saying we think we can get this fourweek spending bill done and get the majority to kick this over to the senate. Now, with this group of conservatives meeting behind closed doors deciding that they are not in support of this, theyre back to square one. Right now they need to figure out a pathway forward. For republicans who dont want to deal with the daca issue now, who made clear that the bipartisan deal on the table is not sufficient. The deal president himself rejected. If they cant pass a spending bill on their own in the house, they dont have a plan. So theres a lot of talks right now in terms of how this will progress. This all happened just within the last three hours. Things seemed to be moving in the right direction, then fell apart. They havent even gotten to the senate yet. Theres whole litany of thorny issues theyll have to deal with there. All of this just underscores that right now on capitol hill, things are a mess. Theres no clear resolution forward, and in terms of what the pathway is to ensure that the government is open on january 20th, the oneyear anniversary of the president s inauguration, nobody has a great answer yet. Youve been very clear, but im still confused. Its crazy. Phil, thank you. I appreciate it. I want to bring in now my panel. Do i have the right to be confused . What the heck is going on . The president said hey, look, im going to take the heat. What happened to taking the heat . That was like, so a week ago. Which is bring us up to date. Which is a million years in trump news, dog years. Whats up to date is exactly how phil spells it out, that if you boil it down, there is no answer. There is no answer about how theyre going to first and foremost keep the government running. Unless there is some way for democrats to get a signal that a, they have to pass it. Or they get a signal that somehow daca can be dealt with. And that signal was, as you alluded to, a week ago. That was and then everything changed when things blew up in the oval office with those remarks. And so it is unclear how things are going to get worked out now. Senator Lindsey Graham said i thought we were going to work on this. I was happy for the guy that i knew last week, and then all of a sudden lets watch it. Call in two laters, senator graham and i, and say weve done it. We have met your criteria. We have a bipartisan bill, were ready to go. Then to be called into the president s office and explain it to him and find weve been sandbagged. General kelly and steve miller, as i understand it, invited five other members of congress who were not in favor of immigration reform, and they were there to refute any assertions we made that this was good policy. I think somebody on the staff gave him really bad advice between 10 00 and 12 00 on thursday. I think the president i saw on tuesday is the guy i play golf with. I actually like the guy. Hes actually funny. I thought he commanded the room. And the conversation at 10 00 on thursday was pretty consistent with the guy i saw on tuesday. Something happened between 10 00 and 12 00. This has turned into an sshow, and we need to get back to being a great country. Where democrats and republicans will Work Together to do something that we should have done years ago. As i said in the open, good luck with that. Why are you shaking your head . Because im listening to senator graham, and hes expecting something from trump called consistency. The fact that a year of trump has taught him not to expect that confounds him. Im tired of the Lindsay Graham routine of gently slapping trump with one hand and heavily petting him with the other. He wants to be the president s golfing buddy. He gave us the impression he was golfing with the president that it was going to put him in a position to forge and get through some great deal on immigration, and here we are. There is no such deal. Hes spent a year buttering the president up, telling him how great his golf swing is, and he has nothing to show for it. Thats why im shaking my head. Do you want to respond to this . No. A lot of people agree with that, no question. People were scratching their head asking what is Lindsey Graham doing when he went from being the president s sworn enemy to his bff, and his answer was, hes the president weve got. I think we can cut a deal with him, and i think even he admits that he has egg on his face. The question still is, and he made clear at that gaggle today, hes holding out hope that its not over, and that he thinks that the president at some point, or more importantly, the conservatives who sandbagged them, to use dick durbins words, are going to have to back down. When the pictures start coming out of, you know, unfortunately if there is no deal, that this is going to happen of people being deported who came here through no fault of their own, that the president s back is going to be against a wall. But thats a very big gamble. At the point when he said thats when youre right, i think a lot of people are saying the same thing. Lindsey graham gently, you know, will admonish the president and then in the same breath say how much he loves him. I think youre right, he was speaking for the people at home. Repeatedly, hes served as a character witness for the president. April, i want to get you in here. I have something to ask you. I just want to get your response. Youre at the white house every day. Whats going on . Its mayhem. You know, there was a window that Steven Miller thought that he had to bring people in. And they thought that the president was going to be agreeable. And it turned out the other way, because the base does not hike anything that deals with any pathway to citizenship. We keep hearing Sarah Huckabee sanders talk about merit based system. And the wall. So something happened that went awry with the president s staff. But at issue, and this is the thing that people arent talking about. There are people who are very concerned and scared. Congressional leaders who are very fearful that friday comes and there could be a Government Shutdown. And this president talks about this great economy. The economy will shift if this happens. I mean, hundreds of thousands of people could be furloughed for a while. So you not only have immigration situation thats looming, you have a Government Shutdown. And there are five issues, not just daca, up in the air. Its the budget caps. Its also disaster relief, and c. H. I. P. And daca. So there are a lot of things up in the air, and they cannot seem to get a handle on. And this Government Shutdown is looming. Youve got this immigration issue of people being deported and youve got this issue of a Government Shutdown. Theres a lot on the table in just a matter of days. Yeah. Jeff sessions is speaking out about immigration. Well talk about that after the break. Pssst. What . I switched to geico and got more. More savings on Car Insurance . Aha. And an awardwinning mobile app. That is more. Oh, theres more. Mobile id cards, emergency roadside service. More technology. I can even add a new driver. Right from her phone geico. Expect great savings and a whole lot more. April, the attorney general Jeff Sessions was on fox tonight. Heres what he said about immigration reform. What good does it do to bring in somebody who is illiterate in their own country, has no skills, and is going to struggle in our country and not be successful . That is not what a good nation should do, and we need to get away from it. Oh, my god. Should i talk . Its just how did most immigrants come here, most italians, irish people. Some people came over from slavery. Didnt have educations. See, people can people cant say slavery was immigration im saying we didnt have education. But people want to believe that. This goes back to i didnt use the term immigration. Right, everyone says we are a nation of immigrants. No, were not all immigrants, were natives, slaves, and immigrants. But don, this goes back to what happened last week, when they were talking about a merit based system and this goes back to the shole stuff and goes back to the nigerians in the huts thing and the haitians and hiv. People need to stop going by feeling and deal with the facts. Lets quantify and qualify who theyre talking about when they say we dont want illiterate people coming. Lets qualify and quantify who theyre talking about overall. Drawing back the fact that we see statistics, fact from the center for american progress, who came out i had the last report we had last week was 2012. They came back with something from a survey from 2016, and they just reported it this weekend, and it also throws in employment, as well. Black immigrants have higher levels of obtaining College Degrees than any other minority group, and also there is a component when it comes to jobs. So they need to stop this, they need to stop making these blanket statements, because it makes them seem racially biased. You cant listen to that soundbite and even with all of that, and thats their talking point now, that they want a merit based system, thats not what the president said. That is not what the president s comments were. His comments were about country based, and color based. Right. That was the president s. I didnt hear Jeff Sessions talk about that, but i think what Jeff Sessions just said is worthy of a very real discussion and big question mark, which is, as you were saying, frank, that is not what this country is about. This country historically is not about letting people in if they can read and write, and if the leaders in this country are confident that they can, you know, come here and be millionaires. Not at all. It is supposed to be the land of hope and opportunity, explicitly for people who cant get a chance in their countries. And cant get a chance to get ahead. And this is the place they can do it. My italian grandparents came here from southern italy, which was considered an shole area. You only wanted people from the north. Both were illiterate when they came here. You will never have met two more patriotic americans, who worked hard. All of their children were successful. Thats the american story we should be talking about. When i hear Donald Trumps comments from that meeting, when i hear Jeff Sessions there, i hear stuff from this administration that i think takes us farther away from the meaning of america, not back to some better meaning of america. And after a year, its wearying. I also hear the dumbest things from supporters of the president saying well, harvard does this, and colleges do this. And you dont let in the worst people, you let in the best people. And companies america is not a company, nor is it a university. So you cant compare an admissions system at a university or hiring practices at a company with how you do immigration in the United States. I have to laugh, because the antielitist Trump Administration is comparing immigration to Ivy League University admissions, thats rich. I need to move on and talk about this. We heard today from a doctor who examined the president. He said the president is in excellent health. Watch this. Yes. If the president ate a healthier diet, he might live to be 200 years old, i dont know. He has incredible genes, i just assume. I was not going to do a cognitive exam. The reason we did the cognitive assessment is because the president asked me to. His Overall Health is excellent. Are there a few things he could do to make himself healthier as far as diet and exercise . Absolutely. I would say he sleeps four to five hours a night and i think hes probably been that way his whole life. Probably one of the reasons hes been successful. Clean bill of health, incredible genes . Apparently. Lets take it at face value. We spend so much time criticizing the president , as we should. Thats our job. The fact that he answered questions for an hour, that surprised me. I think that surprised you, dana. Thats a good thing. Do i believe every single number there . Not exactly. I was chuckling at how energetic he was, not what he was saying about the president. He seemed like a trump fan boy. When he said 239 pounds, i know im being a girther, but come on. We rightly complain all the time about this administrations lack of responsiveness to us. He came out for an hour, he answered a lot of questions. Lets give credit where its due. I just thought it was very, very telling that he explicitly said that he wasnt going to do what he called a cognitive test, but the president wanted him to do the test and go out and report on it. That is so, so telling. Thanks, everyone. I appreciate it. When we come back, a top democrat accuses the white house of slapping a gag order on steve bannon. Is bannon trying to get back into the president s good graces . If youve been diagnosed with cancer, searching for answers may feel overwhelming. So start your search with our teams of specialists at Cancer Treatment centers of america. The evolution of cancer care is here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com experts russian investigators putting the squeeze on steve bannon, who was hit with subpoenas from the House Intel Committee and the special counsel Robert Mueller. Lets discuss it with general Michael Hayden and former director of the cia and the nsa. Also with us, james clapper, the former director of national intelligence. Thank you for coming on. General hayden, steve bannon, the president s former chief strategist, called to testify before the grand jury as part of the investigation into possible trump leaks between Trumps Campaign or his associates and russia. What is mueller using a subpoena tell you about the investigation . Number one, hold on. I thought director mueller was going to be absolutely exhaustive in his investigation. So now you have the book out there, you have the bannon quotes in the book. Hes got to pull that rock up and look under that rock. So thats one thing. I think bob is just being thorough. Secondly, though, you know, the more rocks he pulls up, the more things we learn. So i think theres a besides just being complete here, i think theres a genuine curiosity on the part of the special counsel to see exactly what it is that bannon knows, and why it is that he said the things that he said. In that book . Yeah. All right. Director clapper, steve bannon certainly faced questions about his reported comments in this book fire and fury. The three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a Foreign Government inside trump tower on the 25th floor with no lawyers. Thats a quote from the book. Director clapper, what is your take on how close to the president that this russia investigation is getting . Well, its getting pretty close. And just to key off something that mike just spoke about, the approach that bob mueller, director mueller is taking as special counsel in this, the thoroughness and the methodical way hes approaching this, and now, of course, you know, if you would think of it as a series of concentric circles ever closer to the president , who is closer to has been closer up until recently to the president than steve bannon . One of the things that i thought was interesting from the previous discussions was the concept of executive privilege. Im not sure how that applies, particularly during the transition phase before the president actually started, and im not aware of executive privilege as a legal concept. So i dont quite understand how the white house and other than just the issue of blanket muzzle on bannon with his remarkable appearance at the House Intelligence Committee today, he couldnt talk about anything. I wonder why it went so long. You have that. And then the president has been down playing a lot of it. He continues to push the narrative that the russian involvement in our electoral system is manufactured. He just tweeted this. He said just today, the russian collusion hoax is dead except as it pertains to the dems. Public gets it. Are you concerned the president is not taking seriously the involvement that russia had in the u. S. Electoral system and unless it comes to the midterms . Oh, my god, yes. To put the whole question of guilt, which we may or may not see, responsibility, which you probably will see, put all that aside. Thats history. Lets talk about present and future. Ive said all along is the president needs to say, you did it, we know you did it, i know you did it. Were going to punish you, and youre never going to be able to do it again. Look, this russian effort, sophisticated in its own way. Audacious in its own way. Public, private policy, politics, federal, local, intelligence, law enforcement. A bit like, i dont want to overdramatize, but a bit like the 9 11 attacks in that way. Kind of an unexpected threat against an unknown weakness. And the only way you respond to that is through extraordinary efforts and extraordinary structures. Don, im telling you, i think jim would confirm this, our government doesnt go extraordinary without the direct involvement of the president. Until the president does that, this is going to be an exposed weakness and exposed flank in our political structure. Director clapper, the question is, general hayden said before, we know you did it, stop it. The question is, why wont the president do that . Well, thats the key question, and at one point, i would like to make distinguishing between collusion, which is, you know, thats pretty significant, whether there was or not, i dont know. And as mike said, we may never know exactly the evidence of that. To me, from the outset, from the first time i briefed, along with others, then president elect trump on january 6th was his refusal to, for whatever reason, to acknowledge what the russians have done, did do during our election and will continue to do. To me that is a profound threat to the very system, political system in this country. And i completely agree with mike, what he should be doing is being pretty stiff with his good friend, putin, about not messing with us, because but to me, that is the bigger issue here, is the president s mysterious indifference to the threat that russia poses. Yeah. North korea also mistaken missile crisis or missile alerts. Whats going on . Ill talk to these two when we back about that. I thought i was managing my moderate to severe Crohns Disease. Then i realized something was missing. Me. My symptoms were keeping me from being there. So, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of Crohns Disease after trying other medications. And the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you, and them. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, remission is possible. Dad promised he would teach me how to surf on our trip. When you book a flight, then add a hotel, you can save. 3 waves later, i think it was the other way around. Everything you need to go. Expedia. You wont see these folks they have businesses to run. They have passions to pursue. How do they avoid trips to the post office . Stamps. Com mail letters, ship packages, all the services of the post office right on your computer. Get a 4 week trial, plus 100 in extras including postage and a digital scale. Go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again. Hey, what are you guys doing here . Were voya. We stay with you to and through retirement. So youll still be here to help me make smart choices . Well, with your finances that is. We had nothing to do with that tie. Voya. Helping you to and through retirement. North korean state media ripping into president trump, calling him a lunatic. Back with me now general Michael Hayden and james clapper. Secretary of state Rex Tillerson attending a summit trying to deal with north koreas provocations. Heres what he said the end game is right here. The object of negotiations, if and when we get there, is the complete, verifiable, ander reverse able denuclearization of north korea. Does that seem possible . Not to start with. I mean, i certainly subscribe to that as a longterm objective with north korea. But to establish that as a condition for negotiations or that elicit commitment from the North Koreans that they they agree to walk on the path of denuclearization, from my experience dealing with the North Koreans, that is a nonstarter. Is that realistic . I vote with jim. He was the j2 in korea. Ive had two tours in korea. Let me be very candid. Given the current security situation in northeast asia, the North Koreans would be irrational to agree to give up their nuclear weapons. This is coldly calculating. They seen whats happened to iraq, libya, to a lesser extent ukraine, after they had given up weapons or didnt achieve them. So jims right. This may be an ultimate goal as the byproduct of a security structure, but as a going in position, its a nonstarter. Russia, china, probably the two biggest, important parties in dealing with north korea. They chose not to attend this summit. Is the u. S. Involvement, do they need their involvement to make a deal . Yes. Particularly the chinese. The russians are a bit of a peripheral player here when it comes to the North Koreans. The chinese are very important. Its sadness that they werent in vancouver for the meeting. Frankly, im glad that we were in vancouver for the meeting, because given some of our positions, some of the things the president said, i mean, i can envision circumstances where we wouldnt have shown up either. Interesting. North and south korea seem to be making some degree of progress, holding talks about sending athletes to the olympics. The Japanese Foreign minister said we should not be fooled by the norths charm offensive. Does he have a point . Well, he does. Whats going on now is transactional. This is typical north korean, and by the way, just to underline the point mike made, the North Koreans are rational in their context. They know what theyre doing. The North Koreans want to participate in the winter olympics, and so they reached out and, of course, south korea, who is has the most at stake here, since theyre the closest to north korea and the north korean threat, was receptive. This is a good thing, and weve had interludes of this dialogue before. It probably wont be sustained. Every time they do it, its a good thing. This weekend, it was hawaii who dealt with that false alarm about a possible missile strike. Today, japan dealt with a similar scare about incoming north korean a missile from north korea. Everyone is wondering, because this sort of made us think, what would happen if this was real . How prepared are we here in the United States to deal with an erratic north korea and possible north korea . Not erratic, coldly calculating. But if they have this capacity, you always have this danger that, for one reason or another, they might use it. Frankly, don, i think the most telling part of the sequence of events in hawaii this past weekend is not the false alarm. I get that. That was bad. But no one knew what to do. Once they got the alarm, whats the plan . What happens next . And based upon all of the local accounts, everyone was pretty much on their own, saying goodbye to their loved ones. How much do the folks in washington, the administration its a state responsibility. So the president is right, the state needs to get its act together, and they will. Theyll do the right thing. A mistake was made. Theyll correct it. But you know, the president consciously, and this is not all bad, but the president consciously has created a state of heightened tensions in which saturdays kind of event can take place and have the effects that it had. Yeah. Thats my question, a similar question to you, director clapper. North korea blasted president trumps boast of having a Bigger Nuclear button than him, calling his tweet the spasm of a lunatic. President trump is not the original author of the north korean standoff. Are you worried about this rhetoric thats been escalating making the problem worse . Well, yes, i am. And i have spoken about this before that i just think it would be better to temper or moderate the rhetoric. Typically in the past, we havent dignified, you know, the wild rhetoric that comes out of north korea. Some of it is almost amusing. We havent dignified. Certainly president s havent in the past and just ignored it. And so this rhetoric, this rhetorical heat, you know, the bellicose schoolyard exchanges kind of heightens the angst, and thats clearly was evident in the false alarm in hawaii. You know, i conjured up recollections, and mike may recall this, the duck and cover exercises we did in grade school during the cold war. We havent done that or thought about it since the end of the cold war. I believe that this heated up rhetoric contributes to this atmosphere of anxiety. And, again, to emphasize the point mike made, what it showed was no one had any idea what to do. I guess the upside is the Communication System worked. Thats a glass half full. Thats optimism there. Thank you both. I appreciate it. When we come back, a Government Shutdown is looming. A daca deal is all but dead, and the president blames, surprise, democrats. Well get one congressional democrat to respond. Thats next. vo i was born during the winter of 77. I first met james in 5th grade. We got married after college. And had twin boys. But then one night, a truck didnt stop. But thanks to our forester, neither did our story. And thats why well always drive a subaru. [ gasps, laughs ] you ever feel like. Cliche foil characters scheming against a top insurer for no reason . Nah. So, why dont we like flo . She has the name your price tool, and we want it. But why . Why dont we actually do any work . Why do you only own one suit . Its just the way it is, underdeveloped office character. Youre right. Thanks, bill. No, youre bill. Im tom. You know what . No one cares. This is cnn tonight. Im don lemon. It is 11 00 p. M. Here on the east coast. Breaking news tonight. The clock ticking for congress to figure out how to fund the federal government. Now republicans are making a lastditch attempt to avoid a shutdown. Do they have a shot . Plus, more from that hte